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JPtheBeasta
05-01-2018, 05:02 PM
Who are Mark Few’s five starters going to be?

JAGzag
05-01-2018, 05:11 PM
I’ll let you know on 5 May...

JPtheBeasta
05-01-2018, 05:18 PM
I’ll let you know on 5 May...

I get your point. Please feel free to make any presuppositions or hypothetical assertions to make your guess. I was hoping people would like to discuss this in a specific thread that is dedicated to the topic.

kdaleb
05-01-2018, 05:48 PM
I think there’s room for two discussions: who starts and who is in the floor with the game on the line. I do t think they’ll necessarily be the same.

I see four tiers of players:

First tier: starting and playing at the end of every close game:
Second tier: maybe starting, maybe playing at the end of close games
Third tier: potential contributors
Fifth tier: bench mob

First tier: Perkins, Rui, Norvell
Second tier: Tillie, Clarke, Williams (if he signs), Kispert
Third tier: Larsen, Wade, Ayayi, Foster, Petrusev
Fourth tier: Jones and the walk-ons

I think the first tier players will definitely start along with two of the second tier players. Who those two players are - I have no ide.

dhozagfan08
05-01-2018, 05:58 PM
Perkins
Norvel
Rui
Clarke
Tillie

Regardless of whether Williams comes or not, he is not better than any of these 5.

Mr Vulture
05-02-2018, 09:44 AM
Without Williams:

Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Clarke, Tillie

With Williams:

Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Clarke, Tillie

:roll:

roxdoc
05-02-2018, 10:06 AM
All these predictions assume that Perk will come out of the blocks blazing. I pray that this is true but the predictions for his recovery suggest a possible impact. If he chooses us we may see more of Williams than people think.

cggonzaga
05-02-2018, 10:38 AM
With Williams:

Williams
Perkins
Norvell
Rui
Tillie

Without Williams plus Cremo:

Perkins
Cremo
Norvell
Rui
Tillie

Without Williams and Cremo:

Perkins
Norvell
Kispert
Rui
Tillie

tinfoilzag
05-02-2018, 11:30 AM
Without Williams:

Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Clarke, Tillie

With Williams:

Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Clarke, Tillie



Yep. Defense and rebounding is going to be an issue even with Clarke in the lineup. Without him, I expect a lot of zone.

cjm720
05-02-2018, 01:08 PM
Perkins
Norvel
Rui
Clarke
Tillie

Regardless of whether Williams comes or not, he is not better than any of these 5.

This...hoping Perks is a fast healer. I see BW getting 20-25 a game.

kdaleb
05-02-2018, 07:10 PM
Without Williams:

Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Clarke, Tillie

With Williams:

Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Clarke, Tillie

:roll:

I am really concerned about Rui having to guard threes for an extended period. I know that we get a huge mismatch with almost every team when we're on the offensive end. But Rui defending when we're playing teams that play 3 guard lineups... zone time?

Bogozags
05-03-2018, 05:12 AM
Without Williams:

Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Clarke, Tillie

With Williams:

Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Clarke, Tillie

:roll:

Winner, Winner, Winner!!!

This is an incredible starting line-up, that will rival the Pangos, Bell, DS, KW and PK (if he would have been healthy) line-up!

"IF" BW chooses GU, he will come off the bench as there is a tremendous learning curve for him to work his way around.

Coach Crazy
05-03-2018, 06:31 AM
Winner, Winner, Winner!!!

This is an incredible starting line-up, that will rival the Pangos, Bell, DS, KW and PK (if he would have been healthy) line-up!

"IF" BW chooses GU, he will come off the bench as there is a tremendous learning curve for him to work his way around.

If BWill chooses GU, he's coming here because he is being given the reins. Full stop. While things can change based on ability, Coach Few isn't going to mess around with a recruit and recruitment like this and do something that could give future recruits a bad taste. Brandon and his father expect Brandon to be a first round pick, either this year, or the next. He's also the best, and closest pure point guard option on the team. He allows Josh to do what has already been talked about. How Few works Norvell, Rui, and Tillie has yet to be seen.

cggonzaga
05-03-2018, 06:50 AM
If BWill chooses GU, he's coming here because he is being given the reins. Full stop. While things can change based on ability, Coach Few isn't going to mess around with a recruit and recruitment like this and do something that could give future recruits a bad taste. Brandon and his father expect Brandon to be a first round pick, either this year, or the next. He's also the best, and closest pure point guard option on the team. He allows Josh to do what has already been talked about. How Few works Norvell, Rui, and Tillie has yet to be seen.

+1

gonzagafan62
05-03-2018, 08:17 AM
If BWill chooses GU, he's coming here because he is being given the reins. Full stop. While things can change based on ability, Coach Few isn't going to mess around with a recruit and recruitment like this and do something that could give future recruits a bad taste. Brandon and his father expect Brandon to be a first round pick, either this year, or the next. He's also the best, and closest pure point guard option on the team. He allows Josh to do what has already been talked about. How Few works Norvell, Rui, and Tillie has yet to be seen.

Yup exactly

tinfoilzag
05-03-2018, 09:01 AM
If BWill chooses GU, he's coming here because he is being given the reins. Full stop. While things can change based on ability, Coach Few isn't going to mess around with a recruit and recruitment like this and do something that could give future recruits a bad taste. Brandon and his father expect Brandon to be a first round pick, either this year, or the next. He's also the best, and closest pure point guard option on the team. He allows Josh to do what has already been talked about. How Few works Norvell, Rui, and Tillie has yet to be seen.

With that said, we've had a 5-star burger boy come to Gonzaga and come off the bench. He was still a lottery pick the next year.

He may be given the reins, but it would probably be mid to late year after he figures out the system (depending on Josh's recovery). This is similar to Zach's situation last year. Zach also had the benefit of a redshirt year.

Coach Crazy
05-03-2018, 09:20 AM
With that said, we've had a 5-star burger boy come to Gonzaga and come off the bench. He was still a lottery pick the next year.

He may be given the reins, but it would probably be mid to late year after he figures out the system (depending on Josh's recovery). This is similar to Zach's situation last year. Zach also had the benefit of a redshirt year.

We did have a Burger Boy coming off the bench. This is true. It was also not (what I am assuming) outside of the realm of possibility of what was disclosed to him during the recruiting process. As well, the winningest Center in the game and a transfer 4 (J3) was in the mix. I don't know what was said to Brandon, but I have to imagine based on the comments of the father, that very strong commitments were made. So, unless he just absolutely can't get it down, before the season starts, it makes zero sense not to start him.

This is a new kind of player we are talking about. Brandon was probably the least likely of the 3 (Singleton, Cherry, Williams) that Mark was really after to sign. He doesn't get hurt, and he's probably a Burger Boy...possibly shooting for a one-and-done.

JP and Brandon will be a very effective combination, but the starting lineup isn't even going to be the one that gets us to the promised land. Bwill, Snacks, Kispert, Rui, and Clarke is going to be deadly. That's a lineup the DD Motion was built for...

kitzbuel
05-03-2018, 09:28 AM
We did have a Burger Boy coming off the bench. This is true. It was also not (what I am assuming) outside of the realm of possibility of what was disclosed to him during the recruiting process. As well, the winningest Center in the game and a transfer 4 (J3) was in the mix. I don't know what was said to Brandon, but I have to imagine based on the comments of the father, that very strong commitments were made. So, unless he just absolutely can't get it down, before the season starts, it makes zero sense not to start him.

This is a new kind of player we are talking about. Brandon was probably the least likely of the 3 (Singleton, Cherry, Williams) that Mark was really after to sign. He doesn't get hurt, and he's probably a Burger Boy...possibly shooting for a one-and-done.

JP and Brandon will be a very effective combination, but the starting lineup isn't even going to be the one that gets us to the promised land. Bwill, Snacks, Kispert, Rui, and Clarke is going to be deadly. That's a lineup the DD Motion was built for...

I don't think Few has ever told any recruit during the recruiting process that they will be starters, ever. I do believe that he tells them honestly that they can compete for the position and have a shot and winning it, and that their minutes are driven by how well they work and compete. Bottom-line being, if a recruit has the ability, it is up to him to whether he starts or plays. That is all a player can ask for, a chance to work hard and earn their time. If they are good enough and work hard enough, they get the time.

cggonzaga
05-03-2018, 09:32 AM
With that said, we've had a 5-star burger boy come to Gonzaga and come off the bench. He was still a lottery pick the next year.

He may be given the reins, but it would probably be mid to late year after he figures out the system (depending on Josh's recovery). This is similar to Zach's situation last year. Zach also had the benefit of a redshirt year.

Collins had a 5th year senior and super transfer in front of him. Williams has nobody in front of him. We’ve started freshmen point guards in the past.

tinfoilzag
05-03-2018, 10:43 AM
Collins had a 5th year senior and super transfer in front of him. Williams has nobody in front of him. We’ve started freshmen point guards in the past.

BW has a 5th year senior and super transfer in front of him for starting minutes. If he decides to come here, it's because he wants to win and develop. Showcasing talents are a side effect but not the primary driver. Academics are hard at GU, competition for time is hard at GU.

If he wants to showcase his talents as a one-and-done point guard using college b-ball as a type of D league to show pro teams what to expect, go to a Pac 12 school. Ya you might not make the tournament but winning and development are not the primary drivers. It worked for Markelle Fultz.

To be clear, I don't blame him if he picks a Pac 12 school. I don't think he can make a bad decision at this point.

His decision will not be based on guarantees, it will be based on what school best fits his (and his family's) plans.

Bogozags
05-03-2018, 10:54 AM
I don't think Few has ever told any recruit during the recruiting process that they will be starters, ever. I do believe that he tells them honestly that they can compete for the position and have a shot and winning it, and that their minutes are driven by how well they work and compete. Bottom-line being, if a recruit has the ability, it is up to him to whether he starts or plays. That is all a player can ask for, a chance to work hard and earn their time. If they are good enough and work hard enough, they get the time.

This!!!

Zagdawg
05-04-2018, 08:25 AM
Not saying they will start -- but all can contribute to the success of the team
Clarke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si8EJxM7Cfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c4v1IXxhxg
Ayayi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpaPnOwP6gE
Petrusev
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfojiYoSpVM

strikenowhere
05-04-2018, 08:32 AM
Winner, Winner, Winner!!!

This is an incredible starting line-up, that will rival the Pangos, Bell, DS, KW and PK (if he would have been healthy) line-up!

"IF" BW chooses GU, he will come off the bench as there is a tremendous learning curve for him to work his way around.

Uh, wasn't it kinda accepted that having Sabonis, Wiltjer, and PK in the starting lineup was a dud prior to Karno's injury?

The 18-19 team would handle the 15-16 team.

jazzdelmar
05-04-2018, 08:35 AM
Assuming JP is still rehabbing, I'm thinking:

Williams
Norvell
Rui
Tillie
Clarke

Coach Crazy
05-04-2018, 08:38 AM
I don't think Few has ever told any recruit during the recruiting process that they will be starters, ever. I do believe that he tells them honestly that they can compete for the position and have a shot and winning it, and that their minutes are driven by how well they work and compete. Bottom-line being, if a recruit has the ability, it is up to him to whether he starts or plays. That is all a player can ask for, a chance to work hard and earn their time. If they are good enough and work hard enough, they get the time.

I don't think he even has to promise something overtly. There is an understanding of what will be expected of the program that Brandon chooses. I believe that strong commitments were made, and if Few even stated that he saw Brandon coming off the bench, he's not coming to GU.

Coach Crazy
05-04-2018, 08:39 AM
Assuming JP is still rehabbing, I'm thinking:

Williams
Norvell
Rui
Tillie
Clarke

If BWill commits, the potential for the best lineup on the floor is going to be Bwill, Norvell, Kispert, Rui, Clarke. Regardless of who starts, that has the opportunity to be the most productive lineup.

OntZags
05-04-2018, 08:50 AM
If BWill commits, the potential for the best lineup on the floor is going to be Bwill, Norvell, Kispert, Rui, Clarke. Regardless of who starts, that has the opportunity to be the most productive lineup.

Not sure about that given Perkins & Tillie are the two best 3 pt shooters. (although Kispert could hit their level next season)

Assuming Perkins comes back strong from surgery, I'm having a hard time not seeing him being in our most productive lineup. Especially if we have BWill, that frees Josh to play off the ball more and get more open looks. (not to mention he is clearly the best perimeter defender)

Ultimately we'll have so many different lineup variations with the top 7 rotation guys that will be lethal.

hooter73
05-04-2018, 08:50 AM
Point guard issues aside, I reiterate that I see no reason for Tillie to start or get starters minutes til he can show some consistency to play at the level that he has shown he can play at seemingly when he wants to.

CDC84
05-04-2018, 10:04 AM
If BWill commits, I still see it as BWill, Perkins, Norvell, Hachimura and Clarke. Even though Rui will still play a lot at small forward, Gonzaga had to be most concerned with having it's most gifted players in the starting lineup. Not preparing Rui for the position he is most likely to play in the NBA.

If BWill goes elsewhere, I see it as Perkins, Norvell, Hachimura, Clarke and Tillie.

GonzagasaurusFlex
05-04-2018, 10:34 AM
........

If BWill goes elsewhere, I see it as Perkins, Norvell, Hachimura, Clarke and Tillie.

A pretty sweet lineup with Kispert, Larsen, Jones, Ayayi, Wade having the opportunity to earn minutes. If no B Wii, one of Wade or Ayayi will have to be trusted and relied to givebackup pg minutes this year...possibly start early until Perks is 100%.

Hoping Wade and Ayayi both make big jumps in development after a redshirt season alongside Clarke.

cggonzaga
05-04-2018, 03:03 PM
Kind of shocking, to me anyways, that people are so down on Tillie. How quickly we forget the WCC tournament. I know he needs to be more consistent but when he’s playing well he’s one of our best players.

Bogozags
05-04-2018, 06:13 PM
Uh, wasn't it kinda accepted that having Sabonis, Wiltjer, and PK in the starting lineup was a dud prior to Karno's injury?

The 18-19 team would handle the 15-16 team.

I never heard nor read Coach Few say that line up just didn't work...PK was hurt I believe in his 5th game of the season and I remember seeing those three on the court together...This is all hypothetical and opinion but Sabonis and Wiltjer were pretty much not defensible and don't know who on this year's club could hold PK...the back court of KP and Bell would be hard to stop as well, with those three or two in the paint...anyway, I said rival...I like the 18-19 team...totally different from the 15-16 team...

JPtheBeasta
05-04-2018, 08:30 PM
Kind of shocking, to me anyways, that people are so down on Tillie. How quickly we forget the WCC tournament. I know he needs to be more consistent but when he’s playing well he’s one of our best players.

He’s such a unique talent... which makes the up and down performances more frustrating than any Zag in recent memory. I have questioned his motor in the past, but given his injury history, I have no idea to what degree health issues may have inhibited him last year.

Zagcity
05-09-2018, 06:22 AM
Bump

MileHigh
05-09-2018, 06:29 AM
Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Tillie, Clarke.......assuming all are healthy. I am not certain of many things in college basketball, but those 5 starting is about as close to certainty as there is

thespywhozaggedme
05-09-2018, 06:33 AM
Perkins, Norvell, Rui, Tillie, Clarke.......assuming all are healthy. I am not certain of many things in college basketball, but those 5 starting is about as close to certainty as there is

Who starts at pg if Perks isn't fully recovered from labrum surgery? it took me a good year to get my shoulder fully back after that surgery, but again, I'm wasn't a D1 athlete at the time.

GoZags
05-09-2018, 06:47 AM
Who starts at pg if Perks isn't fully recovered from labrum surgery? it took me a good year to get my shoulder fully back after that surgery, but again, I'm wasn't a D1 athlete at the time.

I'm sticking with what I said a month ago. http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?63046-Poll-Who-starts-next-season&p=1384624#post1384624


I'll wait to see the final '18/'19 roster before I vote.

The possibility of procuring an elite grad transfer or an elite recruit still exists.

raise the zag
05-09-2018, 07:15 AM
Who starts at pg if Perks isn't fully recovered from labrum surgery? it took me a good year to get my shoulder fully back after that surgery, but again, I'm wasn't a D1 athlete at the time.

I work side by side with the MN Twins and MN Vikings Ortho docs every single day.

5 months is optimistic but possible.

We usually tell patients, 6 months to a year until full ROM and strength returns.

However, Perkins in great shape to begin with, and will rec daily PT, not bi weekly. Makes a difference.

I would suspect Perkins to be ready to go around early November.

I work 12-9pm today with the Twins' Chief Surgeon and will run it by him, he is working on mostly knees today, but did a couple labrum repairs yesterday.

Here is what I do know. RE-injury much more serious the 2nd go around after they fasten the labrum to the glenoid again. This must be avoided, as long(er) recovery time compared to his previous dislocations.

I was told, and mentioned here previously, Perkins has suffered 5 or 6 dislocations of his shoulder since HS.

Considering labrum provides stability, hoping this helps. Shoulders are, by far, the most unpredictable joint in the body. Repairs are generally successfully but not nearly as good as hips, knees, etc.

Pretty clear the staff knows all this and trying their darndest to secure a back up plan, depth. Yes, Ayayi could be a revelation yet imagine an injury to Perkins or Joel. Exactly. Bad news bears.

thespywhozaggedme
05-09-2018, 07:58 AM
I'm sticking with what I said a month ago. http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?63046-Poll-Who-starts-next-season&p=1384624#post1384624

You're such a tease....and I love it. Although you no longer call me, I still enjoy your basketball foreplay. ;)

ZagsObserver
05-09-2018, 07:59 AM
I work side by side with the MN Twins and MN Vikings Ortho docs every single day.

5 months is optimistic but possible.

We usually tell patients, 6 months to a year until full ROM and strength returns.

However, Perkins in great shape to begin with, and will rec daily PT, not bi weekly. Makes a difference.

I would suspect Perkins to be ready to go around early November.

I work 12-9pm today with the Twins' Chief Surgeon and will run it by him, he is working on mostly knees today, but did a couple labrum repairs yesterday.

Here is what I do know. RE-injury much more serious the 2nd go around after they fasten the labrum to the glenoid again. This must be avoided, as long(er) recovery time compared to his previous dislocations.

I was told, and mentioned here previously, Perkins has suffered 5 or 6 dislocations of his shoulder since HS.

Considering labrum provides stability, hoping this helps. Shoulders are, by far, the most unpredictable joint in the body. Repairs are generally successfully but not nearly as good as hips, knees, etc.

Pretty clear the staff knows all this and trying their darndest to secure a back up plan, depth. Yes, Ayayi could be a revelation yet imagine an injury to Perkins or Joel. Exactly. Bad news bears.

Thanks for the insight.

DixieZag
05-09-2018, 02:40 PM
I work side by side with the MN Twins and MN Vikings Ortho docs every single day.

5 months is optimistic but possible.

We usually tell patients, 6 months to a year until full ROM and strength returns.

However, Perkins in great shape to begin with, and will rec daily PT, not bi weekly. Makes a difference.

I would suspect Perkins to be ready to go around early November.

I work 12-9pm today with the Twins' Chief Surgeon and will run it by him, he is working on mostly knees today, but did a couple labrum repairs yesterday.

Here is what I do know. RE-injury much more serious the 2nd go around after they fasten the labrum to the glenoid again. This must be avoided, as long(er) recovery time compared to his previous dislocations.

I was told, and mentioned here previously, Perkins has suffered 5 or 6 dislocations of his shoulder since HS.

Considering labrum provides stability, hoping this helps. Shoulders are, by far, the most unpredictable joint in the body. Repairs are generally successfully but not nearly as good as hips, knees, etc.

Pretty clear the staff knows all this and trying their darndest to secure a back up plan, depth. Yes, Ayayi could be a revelation yet imagine an injury to Perkins or Joel. Exactly. Bad news bears.

Great information.

Invaluable input, fairly common from you.

Thx

tyra
05-09-2018, 07:33 PM
Did we ever confirm whether this was done orthoscopically or full-on invasive cut job? From personal experience, I think it makes a difference in how long recovery is. I’ve had both and the full c7t took way longer to return to “normal” than the scope. Anybody?

GoZags
05-09-2018, 07:51 PM
Did we ever confirm whether this was done orthoscopically or full-on invasive cut job? From personal experience, I think it makes a difference in how long recovery is. I’ve had both and the full c7t took way longer to return to “normal” than the scope. Anybody?

Pretty sure I recall it being done via 'scope ..... thus the shorter recovery period.

While it's neither here nor there, I am back on the golf course after my 9/'17 Rotator Cuff/ruptured bicep tendon surgery. I'd tried rubbing a little dirt on it ... but that didn't work.

jazzdelmar
05-09-2018, 08:03 PM
Pretty sure I recall it being done via 'scope ..... thus the shorter recovery period.

While it's neither here nor there, I am back on the golf course after my 9/'17 Rotator Cuff/ruptured bicep tendon surgery. I'd tried rubbing a little dirt on it ... but that didn't work.

Did they fix the slice?

DixieZag
05-09-2018, 08:44 PM
Did they fix the slice?

Good one.