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View Full Version : Commission on College Basketball suggests sweeping reforms



thebigsmoove
04-25-2018, 05:29 AM
The Commission called the environment surrounding college basketball "a toxic mix of perverse incentives to cheat," (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23311712/commission-college-basketball-shares-recommendations-ncaa)

Looks like the big reccomendations are:

-Allow players to return to school after going undrafted.
-Separating out the players who want to go pro and not go to college (end 1 and done rule)
-Ban cheaters for life (Good bye Slick Rick)
-The commission decided against attempting to mirror rules for baseball but said it could reconsider.
-Level I violations would be punishable with up to a five-year postseason ban and the forfeiture of all postseason revenue for the time of the ban.
-The NCAA, with support from the NBA and USA Basketball, should run its own recruiting events for prospects during the summer and take a more serious approach to certifying events it does not control.
-University presidents should be required to "certify annually that they have conducted due diligence and that their athletic programs comply with NCAA rules.

I love these ideas.

jazzdelmar
04-25-2018, 05:31 AM
The Commission called the environment surrounding college basketball "a toxic mix of perverse incentives to cheat," (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23311712/commission-college-basketball-shares-recommendations-ncaa)

Looks like the big reccomendations are:

-Allow players to return to school after going undrafted.
-Separating out the players who want to go pro and not go to college (end 1 and done rule)
-Ban cheaters for life (Good bye Slick Rick)
-The commission decided against attempting to mirror rules for baseball but said it could reconsider.
-Level I violations would be punishable with up to a five-year postseason ban and the forfeiture of all postseason revenue for the time of the ban.
-The NCAA, with support from the NBA and USA Basketball, should run its own recruiting events for prospects during the summer and take a more serious approach to certifying events it does not control.
-University presidents should be required to "certify annually that they have conducted due diligence and that their athletic programs comply with NCAA rules.

I love these ideas.

Echo of the Warren Commission and the 9-11 Commission....and the ............

Hoopaholic
04-25-2018, 06:25 AM
Our focus has been to strengthen the collegiate model -- not to move toward one that brings aspects of professionalism into the game," Rice added.


THANK YOU now go do it and enforce it equally, effectively and transparently

Coach Crazy
04-25-2018, 06:29 AM
The Commission called the environment surrounding college basketball "a toxic mix of perverse incentives to cheat," (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23311712/commission-college-basketball-shares-recommendations-ncaa)

Looks like the big reccomendations are:

-Allow players to return to school after going undrafted.
-Separating out the players who want to go pro and not go to college (end 1 and done rule)
-Ban cheaters for life (Good bye Slick Rick)
-The commission decided against attempting to mirror rules for baseball but said it could reconsider.
-Level I violations would be punishable with up to a five-year postseason ban and the forfeiture of all postseason revenue for the time of the ban.
-The NCAA, with support from the NBA and USA Basketball, should run its own recruiting events for prospects during the summer and take a more serious approach to certifying events it does not control.
-University presidents should be required to "certify annually that they have conducted due diligence and that their athletic programs comply with NCAA rules.

I love these ideas.

I'm very much against damaging the AAU circuit. To me, a lot of this just funnels more money into the NCAA's pocket, while not allowing the players to reap some of these benefits. It's a rock and hard place scenario. The NCAA and the Universities are the reason we are in this mess...yet they are asking the same people who have allowed this to happen, to be the standard bearer's. I like some of the suggestions (#1-#5 of your list), but some of the suggestions don't smell right.

thebigsmoove
04-25-2018, 06:43 AM
I'm very much against damaging the AAU circuit. To me, a lot of this just funnels more money into the NCAA's pocket, while not allowing the players to reap some of these benefits. It's a rock and hard place scenario. The NCAA and the Universities are the reason we are in this mess...yet they are asking the same people who have allowed this to happen, to be the standard bearer's. I like some of the suggestions (#1-#5 of your list), but some of the suggestions don't smell right.

I think the problem ultimately lays with trying to force these kids to stay in school. Give them the chance to pursue a career, give them the chance to monetize their name and image even while in school. I dont think paying the players more than a cost of living stipend (which already happens) is necessary. But there should be programs in place to help guide these kids to professional sports if thats what they want to pursue. Having the NCAA, NBA, and USA Basketball involved in the AAU system is good for the sport and good for player development. Id rather these kids talk to organizations than Agents and Shoe companies who's sole interest is personal gain.

MileHigh
04-25-2018, 06:49 AM
I'm very much against damaging the AAU circuit. To me, a lot of this just funnels more money into the NCAA's pocket, while not allowing the players to reap some of these benefits. It's a rock and hard place scenario. The NCAA and the Universities are the reason we are in this mess...yet they are asking the same people who have allowed this to happen, to be the standard bearer's. I like some of the suggestions (#1-#5 of your list), but some of the suggestions don't smell right.

Yea, the part where the NCAA would run the "live period" tournaments would be a disaster. Currently, during the 5 live periods (2 weekends in April and 3 weekends in July) there are probably 20 separate tournaments each weekend and I imagine upwards of 2000 teams playing around the country. All these tourneys are run by independent people or organizations (including shoe companies). If the NCAA were to try and run all these tournaments it would be your typical NCAA cluster @#$% and the only people making money off these kids would be the NCAA

CDC84
04-25-2018, 10:26 AM
Regardless of the suggestions, I have had a problem with this committee from the get go. There are very few "basketball people" on it. The committee should be comprised almost entirely of basketball people. It's like having a biology professor and a study body president on your search committee to hire a new men's basketball head coach. Like we really need their opinion on who runs the best 1-3-1 zone?? Not saying a few outsiders wouldn't be useful, but there should have been way more basketball people on this committee. Otherwise you get stuff like this:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-commission-on-college-basketball-recommendations-condoleeza-rice-nba-pay-for-play/qu0jo6vzahfk1qf280ckacsua


By 2019, the commission asked that the NCAA work with USA Basketball, the NBA and the players association to establish new youth basketball programs that would supplant the July events where evaluation by college coaches currently is transacted.

The commission clearly does not understand the scope of this undertaking; there were more than 100 certified events last summer for coaches to evaluate players. And there were parents desperate for their sons to be seen at every one. Creating an alternative structure to supplant this apparatus is quixotic, and is likely to invite legal action from those parents whose children do not wind up on the NCAA’s invitation lists.

CDC84
04-25-2018, 10:28 AM
Rice Commission's report no recipe for successful change

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-commission-on-college-basketball-recommendations-condoleeza-rice-nba-pay-for-play/qu0jo6vzahfk1qf280ckacsua

SN exclusive: Coaches told by national association to support Rice Commission recommendations whether or not they're good

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-commission-on-college-basketball-recommendations-nabc-email-letter-news-update/1tif6uf0jfxyp159d3sqfiq7rc

btzag
04-25-2018, 11:22 AM
I like almost all the suggestions and appreciate that a group finally understands that blame lies with the NCAA, universities, AAU culture and the shoe companies. The sport needs a complete overhaul and hope this report is the template for that change.

bballbeachbum
04-25-2018, 03:02 PM
Regardless of the suggestions, I have had a problem with this committee from the get go. There are very few "basketball people" on it. The committee should be comprised almost entirely of basketball people. It's like having a biology professor and a study body president on your search committee to hire a new men's basketball head coach. Like we really need their opinion on who runs the best 1-3-1 zone?? Not saying a few outsiders wouldn't be useful, but there should have been way more basketball people on this committee. Otherwise you get stuff like this:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-commission-on-college-basketball-recommendations-condoleeza-rice-nba-pay-for-play/qu0jo6vzahfk1qf280ckacsua

I agree. For example


The commission recommended that "high school and college players who declare for the draft and are not drafted remain eligible for college basketball unless and until they sign a professional contract. Specifically, players who are not drafted should be permitted to change their minds and attend college or return to college, provided they remain academically and otherwise eligible."

This is a good idea in theory, as no one likes seeing players go undrafted due to a lack of information. In reality, it's not realistic, as it would theoretically force schools to hold multiple scholarships every year well into the summer while waiting for players to decide what they want to do if and when they go undrafted.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23304802/condoleezza-rice-commission-recommendations-one-done-nba-draft-corruption-recruiting

ZagsGoZags
04-25-2018, 05:55 PM
I am glad to see this
its about time
The clean programs suffer by competition from those that cheat.
I have a feeling this clean up will benefit GU.
I also am glad Rice mentioned North Carolina by name for its academic farce.

btzag
04-25-2018, 06:10 PM
For the naysayers...you have to make huge reform! The system is screwed up from top to bottom and sideways. Is it perfect? No. But name me a single sport or industry or organization that is? Heck GU fans should be going crazy for this proposal since we have excelled at the future world that this committee wants! Crazy how negative this thread is towards these proposals.

RenoZag
04-25-2018, 07:00 PM
End the one and done rule. If the NBA doesn't go along with that, then Condi and her comrades are just twisting slowly in the wind.

thebigsmoove
04-25-2018, 07:53 PM
Someone on twitter brought up the hockey model where all players at 18 are entered into a draft pool and their rights remain with the NHL that selects them. They either then choose to sign with the pro team and go to the minors or they go to college and eventually come to the pro team once they have reached their desired level of development. Interesting concept. I will admit i was not aware of this system since i dont really follow hockey.

TexasZagFan
04-26-2018, 04:31 AM
End the one and done rule. If the NBA doesn't go along with that, then Condi and her comrades are just twisting slowly in the wind.

Pressure should be brought to bear on the NBA to end this aspect of their Collective Bargaining Agreement. Instead of being asked inane questions to curry favor with the players, they should be asked directly if they favor the "one and done", and why.

CDC84
04-26-2018, 08:35 AM
Pressure should be brought to bear on the NBA to end this aspect of their Collective Bargaining Agreement. Instead of being asked inane questions to curry favor with the players, they should be asked directly if they favor the "one and done", and why.

If the players say yes to squashing the one and done, the next question I would ask them is "Do you favor eliminating the NBA rookie salary cap, which is responsible for 70% of basketball's problems at every level and which keeps "real," polished prospects like Kevin Durant from getting huge contracts until their second contract? When there was no rookie cap back in the early 90's and before, the real prospects made huge money right away. They didn't have to wait until their second contract. Their backing of the rookie salary cap does nothing but destroy the basketball careers of raw prospects like Kwame Brown.

maynard g krebs
04-26-2018, 09:09 AM
End the one and done rule. If the NBA doesn't go along with that, then Condi and her comrades are just twisting slowly in the wind.

I think the response that they would rescind freshman eligibility if the NBA refuses to end one and done could be a counter to that; the kids who want to be one and done (Ky and Duke types) would then have to go overseas for a year or G League.

ZagDad84
04-26-2018, 09:21 AM
If the players say yes to squashing the one and done, the next question I would ask them is "Do you favor eliminating the NBA rookie salary cap, which is responsible for 70% of basketball's problems at every level and which keeps "real," polished prospects like Kevin Durant from getting huge contracts until their second contract? When there was no rookie cap back in the early 90's and before, the real prospects made huge money right away. They didn't have to wait until their second contract. Their backing of the rookie salary cap does nothing but destroy the basketball careers of raw prospects like Kwame Brown.

But it is the lack of a rookie salary cap which brought about the one-and-done in the first place. Teams were spending millions of dollars on unproven "prospects" and "overall" not getting their money's worth. While their are a few (Kobe, Lebron, etc.) that are skilled enough to warrant the outrageous salaries paid to rookies pre-one-and-done, there were a lot more prospects that fizzled.

The one-and-done rule was established to allow the NBA teams to get an extra year of tape on the top players to lessen the chance of spending the big bucks on a bench type of player. The on-and-done rule is purely to benefit the NBA teams at the expense of the player and college basketball. Throw in the fact that the veterans don't want a large portion of the salary cap going to unproven rookies, hence the rookie salary cap.

I don't see the NBA teams wanting to give up the one-and-done rule without boosting the salaries of the "G" league maybe up to $250,000/Yr. Then they could draft the exceptional high school player, pay him the elevated "G" league salary and if he shows exceptional talent bring him up to the NBA team and pay him. This then puts the additional training of exceptional HS BB players into the hands of the "G" league and out of the main stream college BB.

ZagDad

Pallet
04-26-2018, 10:48 AM
But it is the lack of a rookie salary cap which brought about the one-and-done in the first place. Teams were spending millions of dollars on unproven "prospects" and "overall" not getting their money's worth. While their are a few (Kobe, Lebron, etc.) that are skilled enough to warrant the outrageous salaries paid to rookies pre-one-and-done, there were a lot more prospects that fizzled.

The one-and-done rule was established to allow the NBA teams to get an extra year of tape on the top players to lessen the chance of spending the big bucks on a bench type of player. The on-and-done rule is purely to benefit the NBA teams at the expense of the player and college basketball. Throw in the fact that the veterans don't want a large portion of the salary cap going to unproven rookies, hence the rookie salary cap.

I don't see the NBA teams wanting to give up the one-and-done rule without boosting the salaries of the "G" league maybe up to $250,000/Yr. Then they could draft the exceptional high school player, pay him the elevated "G" league salary and if he shows exceptional talent bring him up to the NBA team and pay him. This then puts the additional training of exceptional HS BB players into the hands of the "G" league and out of the main stream college BB.

ZagDad

How could the lack of a salary cap bring about the one and done rule if the rookie cap was established 10 years prior to the one and done rule? The rookie salary cap was instituted in 1995, while the one and done rule was put in place in 2005, so Kobe and Lebron were never paid "outrageous salaries." Also, after looking at the list of high school players drafted pre-2005 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_high_school_draftees#List), I'm not sure you could say there were more prospects that fizzled than not. Considering draft position and injuries, it looks like many on the list had decent careers.

MileHigh
04-26-2018, 03:43 PM
If the players say yes to squashing the one and done, the next question I would ask them is "Do you favor eliminating the NBA rookie salary cap, which is responsible for 70% of basketball's problems at every level and which keeps "real," polished prospects like Kevin Durant from getting huge contracts until their second contract? When there was no rookie cap back in the early 90's and before, the real prospects made huge money right away. They didn't have to wait until their second contract. Their backing of the rookie salary cap does nothing but destroy the basketball careers of raw prospects like Kwame Brown.

Help me understand how the Rookie salary cap destroyed Kwames career?? Are you saying that if he could have made more money earlier in his career he would have performed better? His first contract was 17M over 4 years, not exactly peanuts.
I dont know if we can even characterize his career as being "destroyed". He underacheived as a #1 pick, but he did play 13 years in the League and made over 65 million dollars total.

kitzbuel
04-26-2018, 07:28 PM
Regardless of the suggestions, I have had a problem with this committee from the get go. There are very few "basketball people" on it. The committee should be comprised almost entirely of basketball people. It's like having a biology professor and a study body president on your search committee to hire a new men's basketball head coach. Like we really need their opinion on who runs the best 1-3-1 zone?? Not saying a few outsiders wouldn't be useful, but there should have been way more basketball people on this committee. Otherwise you get stuff like this:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-commission-on-college-basketball-recommendations-condoleeza-rice-nba-pay-for-play/qu0jo6vzahfk1qf280ckacsua

For one, it was “basketball” people who got this into the mess that it is. Secondly, it was the business end of it that they balled up. Transparency and anti-corruption policy implementation can be informed by lots of backgrounds.