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Zagceo
03-27-2018, 06:15 AM
Based on latest offers which conference do you prefer to see Gonzaga in next year?

I'm voting for MWC


The MWC ranked 9th nationally this season in the computer metric of RPI, and the WCC was 13th.

But add Gonzaga to the MWC and its conference RPI would have climbed to 8TH.

Subtract Gonzaga from the WCC, and it falls to 15th, below the Western Athletic Conference.

Hint of what we could expect for competition.

From MWC board

From MWC
New Mexico is going to be a little more than solid. I am usually pretty conservative with my predictions, but I would put money on New Mexico being ranked in the top 25 before season end. We are getting a huge talent upgrade next year and will be very deep.

6'5" JaQuan Lyle Combo Guard 4* top 50 ESPN (Ohio St. Transfer)
6'9" Vance Jackson SF 4* top 100 ESPN (UCONN Transfer)
6'10" Carlton Bragg PF 4* McDonald AA and Top 25 ESPN (Kansas Transfer)
6'1" Dru Drinnon PG 4*
6'10" Isaiah Maurice C/PF 3* Kansas St. Transfer
6'8" Tajuan Agee PF 2.5* Juco
Plus Returning :
Dane Kuiper 6'7" SG, Makuach Maluach SG 6'6", Anthony Mathis 6'3" SG, Troy Simons 6'3" SG, Chris McNeal PG, Vladimir Pinchuck 6'10" C, Connor MacDougall 6'9" C (if he doesn't tranfer as a Grad)


Good. Hope so. This is kind of the point, of how Gonzaga staying in the WCC is foolish. Historically, the best teams in the MW have been UNM, UNLV and SDSU. If those three programs rise back up, and Nevada and Boise even take a step back, the conference is back to where it was six years ago.

former1dog
03-27-2018, 06:21 AM
I’m voting WCC with the hope that ESPN sticks with us. That is very important.


Edited to add: We don’t really know what the MWC is offering (if anything) other than membership.


Follows is the link to the “offer” being made by the WCC to keep Gonzaga-


http://www.wccsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032618aaa.html

Coach Crazy
03-27-2018, 06:40 AM
I’m voting WCC with the hope that ESPN sticks with us. That is very important.


Edited to add: We don’t really know what the MWC is offering (if anything) other than membership.


Follows is the link to the “offer” being made by the WCC to keep Gonzaga-


http://www.wccsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032618aaa.html

But you said you trust Mike. So, us leaving the WCC would mean that we would be getting a better deal in the MWC. Or do we all of the sudden not trust Mike and Mark?

former1dog
03-27-2018, 06:48 AM
But you said you trust Mike. So, us leaving the WCC would mean that we would be getting a better deal in the MWC. Or do we all of the sudden not trust Mike and Mark?

Pretty snaky for 7:45 in the morning Coach.

i remain in the wait for something better camp which coexists in my mind with trusting Mike Roth and colleagues to make the best decision for Gonzaga, even if that contradicts my choice.

VinnyZag
03-27-2018, 07:22 AM
I keep thinking about how the old Big East blew up, in part at least, because the basketball schools and the football schools couldn't co-exist. That makes me think GU shouldn't join a football league.

Zagceo
03-27-2018, 07:34 AM
The real ticking time bomb is ESPN and their desires.

I just don't see ESPN stepping up and saying "it makes no difference what you decide Gonzaga we'll back your decision and reward you even if the better financial choice for us (ESPN) is for you(Gonzaga) to move to MWC"

strikenowhere
03-27-2018, 07:43 AM
Come on people - just look at all the story lines next year in the WCC..how could you NOT vote to remain?

- Can the Zags bench get over the hump and finally outscore LMU's starters?
- Can the the Zags set the record for the largest margin of victory over a WCC team?
- Will Randy Bennett dare to travel outside of California?
- Can the Zags embarrass Lorenzo Romar yet again?
- Will Pacific, which according to everyone based on one year's worth of evidence is on an upswing, finally challenge for 3rd place?
- Will the Zags SOS & RPI decrease by a slightly lesser amount compared to every other year after conference play is over?
- How will the resurgent San Diego program respond to the firing of their head coach?
- Will finally BYU stop playing 3rd fiddle to St. Mary's?
- Whose OOC schedule will be more challenging - St. Mary's, Santa Clara, or Portland?

krozman
03-27-2018, 07:47 AM
The WCC is like threads devoted to moving out of the WCC.....they're boring and repetitive and nobody wants to watch them because the result is the same as it was the 20 threads prior.

strikenowhere
03-27-2018, 07:54 AM
The WCC is like threads devoted to moving out of the WCC.....they're boring and repetitive and nobody wants to watch them because the result is the same as it was the 20 threads prior.

+1

Zagdawg
03-27-2018, 07:56 AM
"The Mountain West ranked ninth nationally this season in the computer metric of RPI, and the WCC was 13th. But add Gonzaga to the Mountain West and its conference RPI would have climbed to eighth. Subtract Gonzaga from the WCC, and it falls to 15th, below the Western Athletic Conference."

Ezag
03-27-2018, 08:22 AM
"Can't wait till we play Pepperdine, LMU, Pacific, Portland and Santa Clara again and if we are REALLY lucky, multiple times next season."

gonzagafan62
03-27-2018, 08:36 AM
After this there is no way I’d leave the WCC. 0%. ZERO

Ezag
03-27-2018, 08:43 AM
After this there is no way I’d leave the WCC. 0%. ZERO

Underachiever! :bishop_smiley:

SWZag
03-27-2018, 08:44 AM
Wonder what the poll result would be if those who aren't GU fans, but MWC fans couldn't vote. They'll skew it every time! :)

Ezag
03-27-2018, 08:55 AM
Wonder what the poll result would be if those who aren't GU fans, but MWC fans couldn't vote. They'll skew it every time! :)

I don't know. I worked NCAA in Boise, LA and last night in Spokane and there was much talk about this over the past couple of weeks. From what I heard the casual fan, news media and behind the scenes folk are more in favor of the move than against

Mr Vulture
03-27-2018, 09:40 AM
If they address the revenue split issue in the WCC, I'd rather stay myself. I just don't think that the WCC can match what the MWC can do. I would also want BYU to come with us.

bartruff1
03-27-2018, 11:03 AM
:lmao:

Bulldoginseattle
03-27-2018, 12:09 PM
Found this floating around today:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-wcc-20180326-story.html

If the reporting holds any weight, looks like this not only could be, but is happening sooner rather than later:

"The Union-Tribune first reported Feb. 28 that the Mountain West had held discussions with Gonzaga about a possible move, perhaps as early as next season. Sources have confirmed since then that talks have progressed, so much that they have even involved where to park the Gonzaga men’s soccer team next season.

Only five members of the Mountain West currently field men’s soccer teams, one short of the requirement to gain an automatic berth into the NCAA Tournament, and thus belong to different leagues around the west. San Diego State, for instance, is a guest member of the Pac-12 to give it six teams (with UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon State and Washington).

Time is likely too short for the Mountain West to formally add men’s soccer before 2019, so Gonzaga would have to play elsewhere in the 2018 season that begins in August – possibly in the WAC or another western conference in a one-year arrangement.

Schedules for other fall sports offered by the Mountain West like cross country, women’s soccer and women’s volleyball have to be adjusted as well if Gonzaga comes. They would have more time to complete a conference basketball schedule, which typically isn’t completed until June."

webspinnre
03-27-2018, 12:20 PM
The decision will certainly be made soon - it sounds like GU is in negotiations with both the WCC to remain and the MWC to move, and will make the decision that they deem best for the university.

JPtheBeasta
03-27-2018, 12:32 PM
I would stay in whichever conference provided the best outlook for recruiting. The WCC fixed the schedule enough that GU will be able to improve its RPI. GU will figure out the money and ESPN thing wherever they go.

Just from a fan perspective, if the Zags jump conferences I would still like to see OOC games with SMC

billyberu
03-27-2018, 12:54 PM
I'm in favor of moving to the Mountain West Conference. Judging by the reports I'm reading, the administration is well beyond the exploratory phase and is deep into the logistics of it.
The WCC, while a great institutional fit, lacks the desire to grow beyond a quaint church league. I also desire a western division of the Big East, but that's just not going to happen anytime soon. The facts are that Gonzaga has outgrown the WCC and are a valuable commodity to other conferences. It's time for this move. I'm personally very excited for the future.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

jchocolate99
03-27-2018, 01:10 PM
I wasn't thrilled about the MWC when I first heard because it was not a sexy conference but as I've thought about it and heard the arguments for and against it I think moving is the right thing. It's about future proofing the program... The debate about which conference is better is just ridiculous because anyone with sense can see the MWC is better. Is it the Big East no but GU will be pushed in the majority of those games which will give more excitement. People are kidding themselves with the WCC and the qoutes from Perkins and Nigel are telling in themselves of which conference the players think is better. When coach few made the reference that the MWC had like minded programs that was telling because it means we'd be going against programs that are willing to put serious resources in their respective programs. Stop being blind to what is happening in the major conferences... The mid majors are being squeezed out which is going to make it harder for GU to schedule good competition. It's all fine and well for the WCC to come out with those changes but if the programs THEMSELVES don't want to really better themselves what's the point. Change is scary and there's uncertainty that comes with it but if we want GU to continue to be relevant with the changing college sports environment we have to do what's best for the program and in my opinion moving to the mountain is what's best at this point in time

former1dog
03-27-2018, 01:11 PM
I'm glad a lot of people are weighing in on this topic and in a mostly respectful manner.

Although it seems that some of us that have favored either staying in the WCC or waiting for something better have had some influence judging by the poll, I hope all of us in this camp will accept the situation if things don't go our way. In reality, momentum might be slipping away from us. If that happens, I'll be sad for the WCC and all the great memories I've had as an athlete and as a fan. I'll be cautiously excited and optimistic and the possibilities in the MWC.

One slight advantage for my favorite sport is that Track and Field would actually have a conference meet to look forward to, something Gonzaga has never had because we've always been independent.

Coach Crazy
03-27-2018, 01:21 PM
I'm glad a lot of people are weighing in on this topic and in a mostly respectful manner.

Although it seems that some of us that have favored either staying in the WCC or waiting for something better have had some influence judging by the poll, I hope all of us in this camp will accept the situation if things don't go our way. In reality, momentum might be slipping away from us. If that happens, I'll be sad for the WCC and all the great memories I've had as an athlete and as a fan. I'll be cautiously excited and optimistic and the possibilities in the MWC.

One slight advantage for my favorite sport is that Track and Field would actually have a conference meet to look forward to, something Gonzaga has never had because we've always been independent.

I think everyone is ready for this to be settled. This is probably one of the most hashed out topics in the history of this board. Unless someone can point out a topic that accumulated that many posts in such short a time?

thebigsmoove
03-27-2018, 01:42 PM
I'm glad a lot of people are weighing in on this topic and in a mostly respectful manner.

Although it seems that some of us that have favored either staying in the WCC or waiting for something better have had some influence judging by the poll, I hope all of us in this camp will accept the situation if things don't go our way. In reality, momentum might be slipping away from us. If that happens, I'll be sad for the WCC and all the great memories I've had as an athlete and as a fan. I'll be cautiously excited and optimistic and the possibilities in the MWC.

One slight advantage for my favorite sport is that Track and Field would actually have a conference meet to look forward to, something Gonzaga has never had because we've always been independent.

This take. +1

There are plenty of great things about the years in the WCC, and there will be plenty of great things about the years in the MWC. Im sure we will all rally around our new home if we move. I personally think its a formality at this point, but i understand others wanting to hang onto the past for many reasons.

TexasZagFan
03-27-2018, 01:48 PM
Come on people - just look at all the story lines next year in the WCC..how could you NOT vote to remain?

- Can the Zags bench get over the hump and finally outscore LMU's starters?
- Can the the Zags set the record for the largest margin of victory over a WCC team?
- Will Randy Bennett dare to travel outside of California?
- Can the Zags embarrass Lorenzo Romar yet again?
- Will Pacific, which according to everyone based on one year's worth of evidence is on an upswing, finally challenge for 3rd place?
- Will the Zags SOS & RPI decrease by a slightly lesser amount compared to every other year after conference play is over?
- How will the resurgent San Diego program respond to the firing of their head coach?
- Will finally BYU stop playing 3rd fiddle to St. Mary's?
- Whose OOC schedule will be more challenging - St. Mary's, Santa Clara, or Portland?

:vomit-smiley-007:

Thanks, I needed to purge...lol.

TexasZagFan
03-27-2018, 01:52 PM
I think everyone is ready for this to be settled. This is probably one of the most hashed out topics in the history of this board. Unless someone can point out a topic that accumulated that many posts in such short a time?

Only place I can think of are the post padding threads on the Foo.

I didn't vote, because I'm kind of split on it. OTOH, the prospect of a couple more opportunities to see the Zags every year is definitely appealing.

gonzagafan62
03-27-2018, 02:03 PM
I’m not really sure why everyone things the Mountian West is some great conference and we actually have to leave. Seriously!!!! The RPI BOOST is great but you really don’t add “quality wins” to your resume by doing this.... the teams are tougher but only in a sense that they all don’t completely suck.... basically what all you Mountian West advocates are wishing for are death nails in the coffin to our tournament streak and the seeds we get in the tournament

A. There was one team worth a dang in the Mountian West this year... Nevada. You start losing games in the Mountian west against better competition and your seed punks out. Nevada if in WCc probably woulda been a 4 just like us. There was no other legit tourney team in there till they lost to SDSU. Same as WCC. We woulda lost more game son the Mountian West AND has a drop in the seed.

Is hat what you really want???? Because there’s no doubt we would lose more games and not to quality teams... we woulda lost to non tourney teams....

Mountain west is not a good conference just like WCC isn’t. 9-14 doesn’t matter. I’ve seen them all bounce around over the last few years... Mountian West has been below us, they’ve been ahead of us. It’s a cycle! Going to that conference will mean nothing but more potential traps for us.... and the places to play at are not very fun to play in either.

Who would wanna be in Laramie instead of the beach anyways Eff that.

thespywhozaggedme
03-27-2018, 02:32 PM
I’m not really sure why everyone things the Mountian West is some great conference and we actually have to leave. Seriously!!!! The RPI BOOST is great but you really don’t add “quality wins” to your resume by doing this.... the teams are tougher but only in a sense that they all don’t completely suck.... basically what all you Mountian West advocates are wishing for are death nails in the coffin to our tournament streak and the seeds we get in the tournament

A. There was one team worth a dang in the Mountian West this year... Nevada. You start losing games in the Mountian west against better competition and your seed punks out. Nevada if in WCc probably woulda been a 4 just like us. There was no other legit tourney team in there till they lost to SDSU. Same as WCC. We woulda lost more game son the Mountian West AND has a drop in the seed.

Is hat what you really want???? Because there’s no doubt we would lose more games and not to quality teams... we woulda lost to non tourney teams....

Mountain west is not a good conference just like WCC isn’t. 9-14 doesn’t matter. I’ve seen them all bounce around over the last few years... Mountian West has been below us, they’ve been ahead of us. It’s a cycle! Going to that conference will mean nothing but more potential traps for us.... and the places to play at are not very fun to play in either.

Who would wanna be in Laramie instead of the beach anyways Eff that.

I doubt it, so there is doubt. What non tourney MWC team would the #6 ranked, 30 win Gonzaga team have lost to? You sound like you don't really have much faith in the talent level of the team.

Birddog
03-27-2018, 02:57 PM
I think everyone is ready for this to be settled. This is probably one of the most hashed out topics in the history of this board. Unless someone can point out a topic that accumulated that many posts in such short a time?

Maybe "David Stockton", although I think it was several threads. BTW, he's playing in the NBA at present.

JPtheBeasta
03-27-2018, 03:00 PM
What’s the story RPI? They supposedly weren’t going to use it as much in the future. Is it being used heavily in the future or not? This move to the MWC makes less sense if they start using other metrics.

bdmiller7
03-27-2018, 03:28 PM
It's the same if they switch to metrics like KenPom. MW had 4 top 100 and 8 top 150 teams this year. WCC had 2 top 100 and 4 top 150 teams other than GU. MW had 1 over 250, WCC had 3 over 250. It's better competition top to bottom by whatever metric they use in the future.

former1dog
03-27-2018, 03:52 PM
Just out of curiousity, I would be interested in finding out folks vote and there connection (or lack thereof) to Gonzaga.

I voted for WCC and I'm a Gonzaga alum.

MBAGael
03-27-2018, 03:58 PM
:vomit-smiley-007:

Thanks, I needed to purge...lol.

LOL, we are going to Western Kentucky and New Mexico State next year. Hopefully, they will be separate trips so we can say we left California twice.

Bulldoginseattle
03-27-2018, 04:20 PM
Just out of curiousity, I would be interested in finding out folks vote and there connection (or lack thereof) to Gonzaga.

I voted for WCC and I'm a Gonzaga alum.

MWC. GU alum

peg645
03-27-2018, 04:28 PM
Thanks for the big laugh!

gu03alum
03-27-2018, 04:28 PM
Wasn’t there already a poll on this subject? Haven’t there already been numerous threads about this subject?

In the last two polls I voted WCC. it’s not worth it to make a lateral move. Hold out for a truly better conference. Gonzaga is a top ten program and deserves a better conference than WCC or mountain west.

ETA: I was in Boise a few weeks ago and spoke to many Boise state fans. I also have friends and family who are Nevada alumni. They are excited about Gonzaga possibly joining the Mountain West because it gives the conference legitimacy. They need us much more than we need them. We don’t settle for mediocrity on the court why would we settle for it when selecting a conference?

JPtheBeasta
03-27-2018, 05:01 PM
It's the same if they switch to metrics like KenPom. MW had 4 top 100 and 8 top 150 teams this year. WCC had 2 top 100 and 4 top 150 teams other than GU. MW had 1 over 250, WCC had 3 over 250. It's better competition top to bottom by whatever metric they use in the future.

That’s good info. My perspective, and the point I made poorly, is that GU is typically good according to those measures not called the RPI, so the conference affiliation is not as important if other non-RPI metrics are used by the selection committee.

bartruff1
03-27-2018, 05:05 PM
Ok....there are no compelling financial or competitive advantages to changing conferences......

NEC26
03-27-2018, 05:29 PM
I brought this up in another thread but it was buried on page 12. If SMC were to lose Randy Bennet they would drop precipitously. If BYU were to leave as well then we would be stuck in a TERRIBLE conference. BOTH of these things are more than possible.
I know many here are arguing that they are only marginally better but when GU is added and or BYU leaves and SMC loses their head coach the comparison is not even remotely close.

bartruff1
03-27-2018, 05:35 PM
Well....never say never....but Randy just signed a 10 year contract extension .....and Dave Rose has said that if Gonzaga leaves the Conference will be just fine....apparently there is some bad blood between the MW and BYU and they have not shown their hand ....


Whoops ...sorry about that...my spelling is bad and my typing is worse...

spike_jr
03-27-2018, 06:21 PM
Ok....there are no compelling financial or competitive advantages to changing conferences......

That Bart, is literally the $1,000,000+ question and I doubt anybody on this board has that answer, In fact, nobody probably has that answer yet. But I'm sure Roth, Thayne, et al are working diligently on the answer.

bartruff1
03-27-2018, 06:27 PM
Probably know next week....the lawyers putting multi year, multi million contracts together bill at about $750 a hour and there are dozens of responsible people that have to sign..... and they all have lawyers....so...it is complicated....

bdmiller7
03-27-2018, 06:58 PM
That’s good info. My perspective, and the point I made poorly, is that GU is typically good according to those measures not called the RPI, so the conference affiliation is not as important if other non-RPI metrics are used by the selection committee.

It makes a difference if they use quadrant wins like this year but based off metrics other than the RPI. More chances for quadrant 1 and 2 wins. That was what the coaches, Few was one, intended when they recommended the quadrant system.

thespywhozaggedme
03-27-2018, 07:07 PM
Wasn’t there already a poll on this subject? Haven’t there already been numerous threads about this subject?

In the last two polls I voted WCC. it’s not worth it to make a lateral move. Hold out for a truly better conference. Gonzaga is a top ten program and deserves a better conference than WCC or mountain west.

ETA: I was in Boise a few weeks ago and spoke to many Boise state fans. I also have friends and family who are Nevada alumni. They are excited about Gonzaga possibly joining the Mountain West because it gives the conference legitimacy. They need us much more than we need them. We don’t settle for mediocrity on the court why would we settle for it when selecting a conference?

Have we not settled for mediocrity if we remain in the WCC?

MickMick
03-27-2018, 07:17 PM
I'm for the move.

I want to follow conference games that don't involve Gonzaga with more interest.

I'm just a rabid fan. Have followed the team closely for twenty years. Have attended many games.

My first love was always football, but Gonzaga basketball has become my favorite sporting event to watch.

Zagceo
03-27-2018, 08:01 PM
The foundation is strong and I trust decision makers.

RenoZag
03-27-2018, 08:34 PM
Well....never say never....but Randy just signed a 10 year contract extension .....and Dave Rose has said that if Gonzaga leaves the Conference will be just fine....apparently there is some bad blood between the MW and BYU and they have not shown their hard ....

Wouldn't that be a violation of their honor code ?

Coach Crazy
03-27-2018, 08:40 PM
Wasn’t there already a poll on this subject? Haven’t there already been numerous threads about this subject?

In the last two polls I voted WCC. it’s not worth it to make a lateral move. Hold out for a truly better conference. Gonzaga is a top ten program and deserves a better conference than WCC or mountain west.

ETA: I was in Boise a few weeks ago and spoke to many Boise state fans. I also have friends and family who are Nevada alumni. They are excited about Gonzaga possibly joining the Mountain West because it gives the conference legitimacy. They need us much more than we need them. We don’t settle for mediocrity on the court why would we settle for it when selecting a conference?

I actually think re-polling is relevant. There has been further development since those early polls. For some, the last ditch swing by the WCC and/or the added conversation was enough to sway some folks (or perhaps we didn't get all the votes from last time to revote). Either way, I think it was a relevant move.

thespywhozaggedme
03-27-2018, 08:47 PM
Wouldn't that be a violation of their honor code ?

Ba Da Bum

Coach Crazy
03-27-2018, 08:58 PM
Wouldn't that be a violation of their honor code ?

Definitely against the Honor Code. And if one of my roommates had done that to me while I lived in BYU-approved housing, he'd be answering to the Honor Code office, and I'd be in cuffs for turning his orbital bone inside out with my knuckles.

Although, I am thinking that Bart meant "hand"?

Zagdawg
03-27-2018, 09:00 PM
Ranks right up there with "cup checking" opposing teams players on the court.

SunDevilGolfZag
03-27-2018, 09:00 PM
Just out of curiousity, I would be interested in finding out folks vote and there connection (or lack thereof) to Gonzaga.

I voted for WCC and I'm a Gonzaga alum.

Me likewise. I kind of like this whole dynasty thing we have going. I’m afraid that will disappear sooner than later if we join the MWC.

AztecDen
03-27-2018, 09:02 PM
First, it isn't a lateral move, you would be moving up. The only move higher up in the West is the PAC-12 and you aren't even on their radar to say no to yet.

Any dream expansion of the Big East out west is going to involve many teams in the MWC. Other than GU and BYU no one else in your conference is attractive in the West? SMC? Sorry, they compete with Cal and Stanford in that area for a fanbase. I know who comes in third. Hell, I am a lifelong Californian and I had to look up where Moraga was. To be honest, I thought it closer to Santa Barbara.

A few fans of BSU don't speak for the whole conference. I, an alumni to a MWC school, think you would be a good addition to our conference and I think coming to our conference benefits you as well.

Coach Crazy
03-27-2018, 09:21 PM
First, it isn't a lateral move, you would be moving up. The only move higher up in the West is the PAC-12 and you aren't even on their radar to say no to yet.

Any dream expansion of the Big East out west is going to involve many teams in the MWC. Other than GU and BYU no one else in your conference is attractive in the West? SMC? Sorry, they compete with Cal and Stanford in that area for a fanbase. I know who comes in third. Hell, I am a lifelong Californian and I had to look up where Moraga was. To be honest, I thought it closer to Santa Barbara.

A few fans of BSU don't speak for the whole conference. I, an alumni to a MWC school, think you would be a good addition to our conference and I think coming to our conference benefits you as well.

It's only a lateral move to those who are fighting the acceptance of objective arguments. There is really no good reason to stay in the WCC, at this point. Unless Hair decides to play hard ball.

And the more I think about the Big East, the less I think it is possible. What I see as a more-likely scenario is using the more mountain-oriented area of the MWC as a median (if you will) for a conference that brings in Mid-west, Mountain West, and West coast teams.

Granted, I have no special knowledge of how this would play with any AD from any of the schools in question. So, it's just speculation. But a conference that had New Gonzaga, BYU (yes, I want them in as a BBall member), Boise State, SDSU, Nevada, Utah State, and New Mexico, Wyoming, GCU...and then a more eastern orientation of teams like Wichita State, Butler, Creighton for starters could absolutely work logistically. And it would trounce the PAC12. Granted, this isn't going to happen. But the possibilities that come from the MWC are far better than anything you could get to in the WCC.

JokerZag
03-27-2018, 09:57 PM
rationales for leaving the WCC:
1) wcc is an rpi killer. Two #1 seeds in the last 5 years when the rpi did not dictate a #1 seed. The committee recognizes talent
2) the mvc is going to boost recruits. Do you want to play in one irrelevant conference or the other irrelevant conference.?
3) $$$$$$$$$$$: whomever writes the contracts. Few nor Roth have ever indicated $ have been a detriment to the program.

The program and the WCC are one in the same in this zags fans mind. I stay up on east coast time to watch my Zags thrash LMU. It’s tradition. It’s veneration of tradtion. It’s discipleship. I will not stay up to watch the Zags play against Wyoming nor nmsu nor Xyzz.

I’m quite confident the adim stay committed to the WCC. Just one fans take

Coach Crazy
03-27-2018, 10:04 PM
rationales for leaving the WCC:
1) wcc is an rpi killer. Two #1 seeds in the last 5 years when the rpi did not dictate a #1 seed. The committee recognizes talent
2) the mvc is going to boost recruits. Do you want to play in one irrelevant conference or the other irrelevant conference.?
3) $$$$$$$$$$$: whomever writes the contracts. Few nor Roth have ever indicated $ have been a detriment to the program.

The program and the WCC are one in the same in this zags fans mind. I stay up on east coast time to watch my Zags thrash LMU. It’s tradition. It’s veneration of tradtion. It’s discipleship. I will not stay up to watch the Zags play against Wyoming nor nmsu nor Xyzz.

I’m quite confident the adim stay committed to the WCC. Just one fans take

This is not an adequate representation of the argument being made by those in favor of leaving.

JokerZag
03-27-2018, 10:11 PM
What’s inadequate.

soccerdud
03-27-2018, 10:26 PM
What’s inadequate.

it's kinda like "insufficient".

JokerZag
03-27-2018, 10:30 PM
it's kinda like "insufficient".

Ok well what’s insufficient or inadequate p?

Coach Crazy
03-27-2018, 10:32 PM
Ok well what’s insufficient or inadequate p?

Are you asking for the definitions? Or what about the parts of your post that I feel are inadequate, with regard to the representation of the pro-MWC position?

TexasZagFan
03-27-2018, 10:32 PM
This thread is careening at breakneck speed to the Foo.

JokerZag
03-27-2018, 10:37 PM
Are you asking for the definitions? Or what about the parts of your post that I feel are inadequate, with regard to the representation of the pro-MWC position?

No definitions. Asking you to refute my points

Coach Crazy
03-27-2018, 11:16 PM
No definitions. Asking you to refute my points

So the arguments are thusly (and if I miss any, pro-MWC crowd, please chime in):

The MWC without GU is superior to the WCC even GU from advanced metric perspective (RPI - which I hate, BPI, Sagarin, KenPom etc.). My original argument included BYU, but BYU is playing things close to the vest. So, who knows whether or not they go? If GU joins, WCC falls to 15 immediately, and the MWC jumps to 8. I think that with GU and BYU, the MWC has the chance to be the #7 or #6 conference in the near future. Whereas, the WCC would plummet. Taking GU out of the league takes away most team's only two really big games. And if they aren't trying too hard when GU *is* in the conference, they'll have even less incentive to do anything other than tread water, and possibly just lay on their backs and float aimlessly. That gets you much lower than 15th on the RPI totum pole.

The MWC has better talent. They currently have more talent in the NBA, and it's distributed among 7 teams. The WCC has two teams that are represented in the NBA, and without the Zags, there are only two players. David Stockton is on a 10-Day, so we'll see how long he lasts, but if he does, that makes 4 players from GU. This is indicative of either one or more factors that include: coaching, recruiting, player development, etc. I would argue that all of those are at a higher level.

The MWC, even though it has been a football first conference, is clearly attempting to adjust course by going after GU, and expanding with a program (possibly) like GCU that is absolutely dumping money into it's basketball. Even still, the facilities are far superior, the fan bases are more supportive and bigger, and they are likely to get a boost in exposure by having GU on board. Most of the other WCC schools would have to embrace 10's of millions of dollars in upgrades and such to get their facilities even close to the MWC.

The WCC is not doing what is necessary to prepare the conference for the next phase of existence. There is no guarantee that the WCC will continue to get the ESPN deal that it has, and there may come a time when ESPN would only give GU any considerable exposure via a contract. That's an unhealthy trend line for the conference. With GU in the MWC, they have the potential to be a 3-4 bid league (especially if BYU tags along). The WCC needs things out of its control to happen in order to facilitate that.

The best the WCC can do is inquire about teams like Denver and GCU (which I am high on), whereas the MWC actually turned away Wichita State, and is now in talks with GU. The best recent add has been Pacific, for the WCC.

The MWC gives more conference adaptability. The Mountain West itself is much closer to the mid-west and can facilitate the conjoining of the west coast to it, in ways that the WCC simply could not. It may very well only be a temporary conference till the giants consolidate, but in the event you have enough good midwest schools that want to join the party, there's some infrastructure built in.

Most of the programs in the WCC don't really care about their program. They'll take the money from tournament wins, but most aren't going to commit major league college bball money. With the way things are going, that's like trying to float in place amongst the rapids. You're going backwards.

The WCC is not a forward-thinking entity. As Spy pointed out: they are reactionary. It will only come because of the threat of leaving or nagging on the part of GU to get something done. Cumulative effect is huge in things like this. It creates a culture that tends to run the show.

Also, players such as NWG have given an endorsement to the move. I don't think its a secret that some players are just not a fan of the conference.

The only thing I could really see working out for the WCC, is if they just cave and give so much money, that GU rakes in the cash hand over fist till they can't carry any more. But that is still just a temporary thing. They're going to leave at this point. Just a matter of when.

It's way past my old-man bed time. So, I'm not gonna try to get all of them in. But that's a good start.

JokerZag
03-28-2018, 12:11 AM
So the arguments are thusly (and if I miss any, pro-MWC crowd, please chime in):

The MWC without GU is superior to the WCC even GU from advanced metric perspective (RPI - which I hate, BPI, Sagarin, KenPom etc.). My original argument included BYU, but BYU is playing things close to the vest. So, who knows whether or not they go? If GU joins, WCC falls to 15 immediately, and the MWC jumps to 8. I think that with GU and BYU, the MWC has the chance to be the #7 or #6 conference in the near future. Whereas, the WCC would plummet. Taking GU out of the league takes away most team's only two really big games. And if they aren't trying too hard when GU *is* in the conference, they'll have even less incentive to do anything other than tread water, and possibly just lay on their backs and float aimlessly. That gets you much lower than 15th on the RPI totum pole.

The MWC has better talent. They currently have more talent in the NBA, and it's distributed among 7 teams. The WCC has two teams that are represented in the NBA, and without the Zags, there are only two players. David Stockton is on a 10-Day, so we'll see how long he lasts, but if he does, that makes 4 players from GU. This is indicative of either one or more factors that include: coaching, recruiting, player development, etc. I would argue that all of those are at a higher level.

The MWC, even though it has been a football first conference, is clearly attempting to adjust course by going after GU, and expanding with a program (possibly) like GCU that is absolutely dumping money into it's basketball. Even still, the facilities are far superior, the fan bases are more supportive and bigger, and they are likely to get a boost in exposure by having GU on board. Most of the other WCC schools would have to embrace 10's of millions of dollars in upgrades and such to get their facilities even close to the MWC.

The WCC is not doing what is necessary to prepare the conference for the next phase of existence. There is no guarantee that the WCC will continue to get the ESPN deal that it has, and there may come a time when ESPN would only give GU any considerable exposure via a contract. That's an unhealthy trend line for the conference. With GU in the MWC, they have the potential to be a 3-4 bid league (especially if BYU tags along). The WCC needs things out of its control to happen in order to facilitate that.

The best the WCC can do is inquire about teams like Denver and GCU (which I am high on), whereas the MWC actually turned away Wichita State, and is now in talks with GU. The best recent add has been Pacific, for the WCC.

The MWC gives more conference adaptability. The Mountain West itself is much closer to the mid-west and can facilitate the conjoining of the west coast to it, in ways that the WCC simply could not. It may very well only be a temporary conference till the giants consolidate, but in the event you have enough good midwest schools that want to join the party, there's some infrastructure built in.

Most of the programs in the WCC don't really care about their program. They'll take the money from tournament wins, but most aren't going to commit major league college bball money. With the way things are going, that's like trying to float in place amongst the rapids. You're going backwards.

The WCC is not a forward-thinking entity. As Spy pointed out: they are reactionary. It will only come because of the threat of leaving or nagging on the part of GU to get something done. Cumulative effect is huge in things like this. It creates a culture that tends to run the show.

Also, players such as NWG have given an endorsement to the move. I don't think its a secret that some players are just not a fan of the conference.

The only thing I could really see working out for the WCC, is if they just cave and give so much money, that GU rakes in the cash hand over fist till they can't carry any more. But that is still just a temporary thing. They're going to leave at this point. Just a matter of when.

It's way past my old-man bed time. So, I'm not gonna try to get all of them in. But that's a good start.

I, reading a lot about conference rip, and stats etc etc, I’m not reading about how MY zags have been hurt by their conf. affiliation vis a vis 2 #1 seeds in the last 5 years. I’m not reading how recruiting is going to improve. Again, what is broke??????

raise the zag
03-28-2018, 04:59 AM
Across all these threads and all this discussion, not a single mention of BYU leaving the WCC soon.

Not if, but when.

We just assume they are waiting on us, or riding our coat tails. While they are certainly watching with a curiously keen eye, they have been searching/seeking the past 2 years on their own behalf.

With or without us. Even the Big 12 is a possibility for them in 2 yrs time.

What would all the "pro WCC" posters think then? When BYU bolts if/when we remain?

BYU offering 2 or 3 Top 50 RPI (occasionally Top 25) wins and ranking last few years.

Major drop off. Then what?

It's been assumed BYU will stay in the WCC if we stay. My goodness that is simply close minded and short term thinking.

BYU may follow our lead in the short term if invited, yet long term they are gone either way.

I'm a sentimental fan of the WCC, if all things could remain the same. It's all I've ever known as a GU fan, student, alum. I used to travel to every WCC Tourney at Santa Clara, USD, Portland, etc. I made friends and colleagues from the other sister schools. My Brother in Law went to Pepperdine, my cousin to LMU, etc.

I'm invested in this conference. But I want no part in a 9 team conference with Gonzaga and SMC. And St Mary's has been VERY fortunate given their facilities and their run of 6'11" giant Australian bigs. They don't grow on trees. It's not that big of a country. Given their recent whiffs in the NCAA, I could see them dip as well, yet I don't expect it as long as Randy stays.

I'm not a big fan of the MWC either. I don't care for their markets, save San Diego. Also, they were essentially a 1 bid conference last year too. The teams aren't really Top 25 worthy teams.

However, a better option overall. Better competition from top to bottom. If we join, plus BYU (they are leaving anyway, so might as well come along), then it's easily a Top 7 Conference.

WCC has one finish in the Top 9 in past 20 years.

The MWC was much stronger with BYU. Even finishing ahead of Pac 12, SEC, etc in many seasons before they left.

The point is...imagine IF we stay put...and BYU leaves anyway?

The extra bye, 2 less league games, and improved scheduling wont be enough to sustain competitiveness.

For posters mentioning the #1 seed, BYU was Top 30 team in most of those seasons and a big part of better seeds. Not to mention it required a perfect Conference record, only loss to, ironically...BYU.

Did u know our RPI dropped in the 50's until we beat BYU in Provo? Jumped around 15 spots or more.

gu03alum
03-28-2018, 06:31 AM
Have we not settled for mediocrity if we remain in the WCC?

we are already in the WCC. Moving to a mediocre conference is settling for mediocrity. No point in leaving unless its for a true upgrade.

Birddog
03-28-2018, 07:10 AM
I find the poll interesting. At this time, no clear cut winner and there probably won't be barring a late surge or a flurry of absentee ballots.

Goshzagit
03-28-2018, 07:31 AM
I find the poll interesting. At this time, no clear cut winner and there probably won't be barring a late surge or a flurry of absentee ballots.

I call for recount!

:roll:

Zagsker
03-28-2018, 07:44 AM
rationales for leaving the WCC:
1) wcc is an rpi killer. Two #1 seeds in the last 5 years when the rpi did not dictate a #1 seed. The committee recognizes talent
2) the mvc is going to boost recruits. Do you want to play in one irrelevant conference or the other irrelevant conference.?
3) $$$$$$$$$$$: whomever writes the contracts. Few nor Roth have ever indicated $ have been a detriment to the program.

The program and the WCC are one in the same in this zags fans mind. I stay up on east coast time to watch my Zags thrash LMU. It’s tradition. It’s veneration of tradtion. It’s discipleship. I will not stay up to watch the Zags play against Wyoming nor nmsu nor Xyzz.

I’m quite confident the adim stay committed to the WCC. Just one fans take

I call complete BS on that.

Coach Crazy
03-28-2018, 07:47 AM
I find the poll interesting. At this time, no clear cut winner and there probably won't be barring a late surge or a flurry of absentee ballots.

Personal feelings have gotten involved, WCC made an offer, conflicting reports on what's happening behind the scenes...it's a different setting than when the first poll came out.

Zagceo
03-28-2018, 07:48 AM
good to be wanted

https://i.imgur.com/WbSDgGh.png

bdmiller7
03-28-2018, 07:58 AM
If you stay up to watch them play NMSU it will be non conference anyway, since they're in the WAC. I would like that game, good competition, I think they could have finished 2nd in the WCC last year.

NWRebel
03-28-2018, 08:01 AM
Across all these threads and all this discussion, not a single mention of BYU leaving the WCC soon.

Not if, but when.

We just assume they are waiting on us, or riding our coat tails. While they are certainly watching with a curiously keen eye, they have been searching/seeking the past 2 years on their own behalf.

With or without us. Even the Big 12 is a possibility for them in 2 yrs time.

What would all the "pro WCC" posters think then? When BYU bolts if/when we remain?

BYU offering 2 or 3 Top 50 RPI (occasionally Top 25) wins and ranking last few years.

Major drop off. Then what?

It's been assumed BYU will stay in the WCC if we stay. My goodness that is simply close minded and short term thinking.

BYU may follow our lead in the short term if invited, yet long term they are gone either way.

I'm a sentimental fan of the WCC, if all things could remain the same. It's all I've ever known as a GU fan, student, alum. I used to travel to every WCC Tourney at Santa Clara, USD, Portland, etc. I made friends and colleagues from the other sister schools. My Brother in Law went to Pepperdine, my cousin to LMU, etc.

I'm invested in this conference. But I want no part in a 9 team conference with Gonzaga and SMC. And St Mary's has been VERY fortunate given their facilities and their run of 6'11" giant Australian bigs. They don't grow on trees. It's not that big of a country. Given their recent whiffs in the NCAA, I could see them dip as well, yet I don't expect it as long as Randy stays.

I'm not a big fan of the MWC either. I don't care for their markets, save San Diego. Also, they were essentially a 1 bid conference last year too. The teams aren't really Top 25 worthy teams.

However, a better option overall. Better competition from top to bottom. If we join, plus BYU (they are leaving anyway, so might as well come along), then it's easily a Top 7 Conference.

WCC has one finish in the Top 9 in past 20 years.

The MWC was much stronger with BYU. Even finishing ahead of Pac 12, SEC, etc in many seasons before they left.

The point is...imagine IF we stay put...and BYU leaves anyway?

The extra bye, 2 less league games, and improved scheduling wont be enough to sustain competitiveness.

For posters mentioning the #1 seed, BYU was Top 30 team in most of those seasons and a big part of better seeds. Not to mention it required a perfect Conference record, only loss to, ironically...BYU.

Did u know our RPI dropped in the 50's until we beat BYU in Provo? Jumped around 15 spots or more.

We had a lot of great basketball games with byu. I wish they had never left the MWC. But, that was a long time ago. Fast forward to where we are today and as a MWC basketball fan I have no interest in seeing them come back. If you hear those byu fans talk on the MWCBoard their ambition is to take all sports to the AAC or the BIG12 or any P5 conference. Those fans have very little interest in promoting and supporting any Western based basketball conference long term. You are wise in recognizing the long term picture in byu. And, it's a real shame. But, the reality is they are a school run by their church which has larger ambitions. There appears to be no desire on their part to be leaders in promoting a solid Western based basketball conference imo.

PS: I didn't vote in the poll. But, if I did my choice would be MWC.

thespywhozaggedme
03-28-2018, 08:21 AM
we are already in the WCC. Moving to a mediocre conference is settling for mediocrity. No point in leaving unless its for a true upgrade.

Correct, so we have excepted mediocrity by staying in the WCC is what you were saying then, correct?

former1dog
03-28-2018, 08:23 AM
Correct, so we have excepted mediocrity by staying in the WCC is what you were saying then, correct?


Yep, Gonzaga expects mediocrity. You can see it at every turn. Surprised you haven't realized that considering Gonzaga has been in the WCC/WCAC for close to 40 years!

bartruff1
03-28-2018, 08:31 AM
I really don't think this is all that complicated.....there is no compelling competitive advantage in joining the MW....some nebulous assumptions concerning a improvement in BPI or seeding.... BFD....plus the impact of the other teams...yes...including women's rowing.

I have no doubt, ESPN will follow Gonzaga.

What I do not know, as 75 has pointed out....are the costs of leaving .......and in particular the earned NCAA units....does Gonzaga keep them if they leave or are they forfeited ....?? Is there a golden set of handcuffs....a buyout ?

This analysis may contain 50 pages of data...but I bet the executive summary is less than one page...the bottom line...revenue.....

Presidents of Universities do not get lost in the weeds...they see the big picture and the long term...the fact that you can do something is not a good reason for doing it...

There has to be a good answer to the question " Why the hell should I do this ?" That shouldn't take very long.

Coach Crazy
03-28-2018, 09:26 AM
We had a lot of great basketball games with byu. I wish they had never left the MWC. But, that was a long time ago. Fast forward to where we are today and as a MWC basketball fan I have no interest in seeing them come back. If you hear those byu fans talk on the MWCBoard their ambition is to take all sports to the AAC or the BIG12 or any P5 conference. Those fans have very little interest in promoting and supporting any Western based basketball conference long term. You are wise in recognizing the long term picture in byu. And, it's a real shame. But, the reality is they are a school run by their church which has larger ambitions. There appears to be no desire on their part to be leaders in promoting a solid Western based basketball conference imo.

PS: I didn't vote in the poll. But, if I did my choice would be MWC.

In all fairness, there are Zags fans who see the MWC as only a stepping stone, as well. I think there is an opportunity to create a premier basketball conference with the way the MWC is setup (and it would need to be rebranded)> But in the event that wasn't possible? I would be right there with BYU fans: use the MWC as a brief step up, and then get to the conference you'll be staying in long term. Nothing personal. Just business.

Zagceo
03-28-2018, 09:38 AM
Presidents of Universities do not get lost in the weeds...they see the big picture and the long term...the fact that you can do something is not a good reason for doing it...

There has to be a good answer to the question " Why the hell should I do this ?" That shouldn't take very long.

Because Gonzaga has a built a P5 Mens basketball program and resides in a small mid minor conference. We don't fit.

35 victories in a row over Pepperdine is not a good look for WCC. It happens.

Administrations has been warning WCC and sending out signals for years things are changing.

I'm sure the "White Paper" has it all the details.

gonzagafan62
03-28-2018, 09:44 AM
I doubt it, so there is doubt. What non tourney MWC team would the #6 ranked, 30 win Gonzaga team have lost to? You sound like you don't really have much faith in the talent level of the team.

We lost to SDSU at their place and they weren’t going to be a tourney team till they won’t auto bid. You’re a bit snobby to think we wouldn’t lose more games

bartruff1
03-28-2018, 10:10 AM
Because Gonzaga has a built a P5 Mens basketball program and resides in a small mid minor conference. We don't fit.

35 victories in a row over Pepperdine is not a good look for WCC. It happens.

Administrations has been warning WCC and sending out signals for years things are changing.

I'm sure the "White Paper" has it all the details.

Assuming that is all true....the MW is just a another small mid major conference with football as the marquee sport....not a P5/6 Conference.... same problem, different conference....not a compelling reason to move....plus the new conference scheduling options can reduce a Pepperdine problem....

To suggest that there is any equivalency with Duke and the ACC....is laughable...

If the decision was about joining the PAC....well....that is a completely different matter....Interestingly, Gonzaga Baseball was in the Pac for several years....

thespywhozaggedme
03-28-2018, 10:44 AM
We lost to SDSU at their place and they weren’t going to be a tourney team till they won’t auto bid. You’re a bit snobby to think we wouldn’t lose more games

But they did, so "ifs" are irrelevant. I'm "snobby" to believe that our team would be just as successful in the MWC as we are in the WCC? ok.

Bullbuck55
03-28-2018, 10:45 AM
I betting that the trustees stick with the WCC, too. I think a larger question that they'll consider is the GU's minor sports programs. How they'll be affected by the move. Which is a large consideration also.

NWRebel
03-28-2018, 10:48 AM
In all fairness, there are Zags fans who see the MWC as only a stepping stone, as well. I think there is an opportunity to create a premier basketball conference with the way the MWC is setup (and it would need to be rebranded)> But in the event that wasn't possible? I would be right there with BYU fans: use the MWC as a brief step up, and then get to the conference you'll be staying in long term. Nothing personal. Just business.

I agree. I see us as a stepping stone for GU. But, I'm OK with that. I see GU as having the leadership and vision for something bigger such as a power West Coast basketball conference. I don't see byu with that same West Coast vision. It's just my opinion based on the years of listening to those fans and hearing where they see themselves.

Coach Crazy
03-28-2018, 10:51 AM
I agree. I see us as a stepping stone for GU. But, I'm OK with that. I see GU as having the leadership and vision for something bigger such as a power West Coast basketball conference. I don't see byu with that same West Coast vision. It's just my opinion based on the years of listening to those fans and hearing where they see themselves.

If you can convince the mid-west schools like Creighton, Butler, and Wichita St., and perhaps a Texas school or two, to go with the mountain west teams and west coast teams (minus SJSU, and adding GCU), I don't see how the PAC12 beats that. I just see the Big East making less and less sense.

JPtheBeasta
03-28-2018, 10:58 AM
Correct, so we have excepted mediocrity by staying in the WCC is what you were saying then, correct?

As artist Harold Balazs would say, “Transcend the Bullsh—.” Gonzaga has been doing a fine job of that already. The mediocre WCC conference schedule was just remediated by removing games against the bottom feeders and opening up more out of conference games. GU could have had a decent RPI this year if things planned out better with teams they beat. Next year, they are in more control of their destiny and can schedule teams that are better than any the MWC has to offer.

thebigsmoove
03-28-2018, 11:08 AM
If you can convince the mid-west schools like Creighton, Butler, and Wichita St., and perhaps a Texas school or two, to go with the mountain west teams and west coast teams (minus SJSU, and adding GCU), I don't see how the PAC12 beats that. I just see the Big East making less and less sense.

Because the Big East is like the WCC in its mindset, but with bigger basketball budgets. I really think an AAC-MWC merger of sorts is coming down the road. A new national conference with the remnants of those two conferences and possibly the leftovers from the Big 12 (which will eventually fall apart when UT/OU/OSU/TTU leave). Maybe something like this:

East
Cincinnati
Memphis
West Virginia
UConn
Temple
South Florida
UCF
Iowa St

Central
Colorado St
New Mexico
Houston
TCU
Baylor
Wichita St
Kansas
Kansas St

West
BYU
Utah St
Boise St
Gonzaga
Fresno St
San Diego St
UNLV
Nevada

24 Team super conference divided into 3 8 team divisions that play home and homes annually while sprinkling in 6 games against the other divisions. Idk if it would work like this, just obviously completely off the cuff.

Coach Crazy
03-28-2018, 11:14 AM
As artist Harold Balazs would say, “Transcend the Bullsh—.” Gonzaga has been doing a fine job of that already. The mediocre WCC conference schedule was just remediated by removing games against the bottom feeders and opening up more out of conference games. GU could have had a decent RPI this year if things planned out better with teams they beat. Next year, they are in more control of their destiny and can schedule teams that are better than any the MWC has to offer.

So, I'll go off the premise that we stay in the WCC. What would your solution be for potential events like BYU leaving and Randy Bennett taking a better gig/SMU not developing players as well and having some or many down years? Only a few things have to go wrong for this conference to get a lot worse, a lot quicker.

Coach Crazy
03-28-2018, 11:18 AM
Because the Big East is like the WCC in its mindset, but with bigger basketball budgets. I really think an AAC-MWC merger of sorts is coming down the road. A new national conference with the remnants of those two conferences and possibly the leftovers from the Big 12 (which will eventually fall apart when UT/OU/OSU/TTU leave). Maybe something like this:

East
Cincinnati
Memphis
West Virginia
UConn
Temple
South Florida
UCF
Iowa St

Central
Colorado St
New Mexico
Houston
TCU
Baylor
Wichita St
Kansas
Kansas St

West
BYU
Utah St
Boise St
Gonzaga
Fresno St
San Diego St
UNLV
Nevada

24 Team super conference divided into 3 8 team divisions that play home and homes annually while sprinkling in 6 games against the other divisions. Idk if it would work like this, just obviously completely off the cuff.

I have no clue what the P5 big wigs are thinking. Is it 18? 20? 24? Not sure. If something like that did happen, I would probably just take a whole day of work to celebrate. I think it is more likely that you get a West/Mountain West/Mid-West conference, but I wouldn't mind seeing perhaps an 18-member. I would personally want Butler and Creighton involved and perhaps get rid of teams like UCF, S. Florida, Fresno St. But a conference even 70% of what you posted would be a juggernaut.

thebigsmoove
03-28-2018, 11:21 AM
I have no clue what the P5 big wigs are thinking. Is it 18? 20? 24? Not sure. If something like that did happen, I would probably just take a whole day of work to celebrate. I think it is more likely that you get a West/Mountain West/Mid-West conference, but I wouldn't mind seeing perhaps an 18-member. I would personally want Butler and Creighton involved and perhaps get rid of teams like UCF, S. Florida, Fresno St. But a conference even 70% of what you posted would be a juggernaut.

Total pipe dream im sure, and it could go any number of ways, but i think something will have to happen with "the rest" of the good athletic schools after the Power conferences pick apart the Big 12 in 2025. Kansas, Iowa State, or Kansas State could very well head to the Big Ten too, or the SEC. There are lots of moving parts here. The SEC could try to make a run at a couple more Texas schools. Or even the Florida schools. We will see.

jchocolate99
03-28-2018, 11:21 AM
I betting that the trustees stick with the WCC, too. I think a larger question that they'll consider is the GU's minor sports programs. How they'll be affected by the move. Which is a large consideration also.

I understand why people keep bringing up the other sports and I'm sure they'll have a voice in the matter but we are a basketball school... THAT will be the deciding factor... GU's basketball is the money maker so that gets the deciding factor while the other sports come along for the ride. If we were a football school that would be pulling our league alliance. That's just the way it is...

Coach Crazy
03-28-2018, 11:25 AM
Total pipe dream im sure, and it could go any number of ways, but i think something will have to happen with "the rest" of the good athletic schools after the Power conferences pick apart the Big 12 in 2025. Kansas, Iowa State, or Kansas State could very well head to the Big Ten too, or the SEC. There are lots of moving parts here. The SEC could try to make a run at a couple more Texas schools. Or even the Florida schools. We will see.

But even that West division you listed is head and shoulders, and 10 gallon hat better than what we have now in the WCC. That's a fantastic start. And yes, who knows. I feel like we are all in the calm before the storm. It's probably going to be a silly season when all the major powers start making their moves.

kitzbuel
03-28-2018, 11:32 AM
I betting that the trustees stick with the WCC, too. I think a larger question that they'll consider is the GU's minor sports programs. How they'll be affected by the move. Which is a large consideration also.Men's soccer is the one that is hanging out there. No MWC men's soccer.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

thebigsmoove
03-28-2018, 11:32 AM
But even that West division you listed is head and shoulders, and 10 gallon hat better than what we have now in the WCC. That's a fantastic start. And yes, who knows. I feel like we are all in the calm before the storm. It's probably going to be a silly season when all the major powers start making their moves.

Very true. Shoot the NCAA may very well cease to exist as we know it.

thebigsmoove
03-28-2018, 11:33 AM
Men's soccer is the one that is hanging out there. No MWC men's soccer.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Which is why they are in discussions to park it in the WAC until next year when the MWC can form its own soccer league.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-wcc-20180326-story.html


Sources have confirmed since then that talks have progressed, so much that they have even involved where to park the Gonzaga men’s soccer team next season.

Only five members of the Mountain West currently field men’s soccer teams, one short of the requirement to gain an automatic berth into the NCAA Tournament, and thus belong to different leagues around the west. San Diego State, for instance, is a guest member of the Pac-12 to give it six teams (with UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon State and Washington).

Time is likely too short for the Mountain West to formally add men’s soccer before 2019, so Gonzaga would have to play elsewhere in the 2018 season that begins in August – possibly in the WAC or another western conference in a one-year arrangement.

Coach Crazy
03-28-2018, 11:35 AM
Very true. Shoot the NCAA may very well cease to exist as we know it.

They are quickly using their usefulness. Especially if the NBA decides to go through with their academy(ies), the power conferences are able to consolidate further power without be stopped by the NCAA, and the FBI is taking more an interest in the actions of programs, players, and coaches.

TexasZag
03-28-2018, 11:41 AM
As artist Harold Balazs would say, “Transcend the Bullsh—.” Gonzaga has been doing a fine job of that already. The mediocre WCC conference schedule was just remediated by removing games against the bottom feeders and opening up more out of conference games. GU could have had a decent RPI this year if things planned out better with teams they beat. Next year, they are in more control of their destiny and can schedule teams that are better than any the MWC has to offer.

It takes two to tango. Taking two games with bottom-feeders off of the conference schedule does not guarantee a better OOC schedule. To that point, why was our OOC so weak this year? As others have said, P5 conferences are not reducing conference schedules. Nor would they, just to accommodate a home-and-away deals for few over-achieving mid-majors looking for RPI boosts.

Coach Crazy
03-28-2018, 11:48 AM
Just out of curiousity, I would be interested in finding out folks vote and there connection (or lack thereof) to Gonzaga.

I voted for WCC and I'm a Gonzaga alum.

So, I get why you are interested in this. I do think, as bart pointed out, though...some of us have differing values. And those differences have the potential to make people in the same group(s) of criteria think differently.

For instance, part of my growing up was in Spokane. I remember the Garland theater, White Elephant, Zips, Dicks Drive In, Thai Kitchen...all that good stuff. Part of my high school experience was at Shadle Park, as well. While I would personally not move back to Spokane, unless necessary, it was a time in my life with awesome memories. My path was simply not to go to GU. Did I think about it? Yes, but in the end, Utah ended up being my course, post-mission.

As far as college, I actually played a college sport. Not for very long. But I played. And it was a good experience.

Where you and I differ (on that, anyway), is if someone approached me and told me that UVU Basketball would be a Top 5 program forever, and all I had to do was sacrifice the team of the sport I played, and all my memories of it. Done. Where do I sign? In fact, if I had to sacrifice those memories (the Las Vegas invitational and the Conference championship I played in) and anyone else's ability to play that sport at UVU, for the sake of *GU* being a blue blood for the rest of eternity, I would. My playing experiences mean less to me than having sports programs thatt I support be forever elite.

GU already means the world to me. It didn't take attending to get me there. We all come to GU fandom in different ways. We just have very different perspectives.

Birddog
03-28-2018, 11:57 AM
Because the Big East is like the WCC in its mindset, but with bigger basketball budgets. I really think an AAC-MWC merger of sorts is coming down the road. A new national conference with the remnants of those two conferences and possibly the leftovers from the Big 12 (which will eventually fall apart when UT/OU/OSU/TTU leave). Maybe something like this:

East
Cincinnati
Memphis
West Virginia
UConn
Temple
South Florida
UCF
Iowa St

Central
Colorado St
New Mexico
Houston
TCU
Baylor
Wichita St
Kansas
Kansas St

West
BYU
Utah St
Boise St
Gonzaga
Fresno St
San Diego St
UNLV
Nevada

24 Team super conference divided into 3 8 team divisions that play home and homes annually while sprinkling in 6 games against the other divisions. Idk if it would work like this, just obviously completely off the cuff.

Those Big12 teams aren't going anywhere at least until June 2025. Their commish and all teams signed a deal. I believe that's when their football TV deal runs out as well.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/22/16350026/bob-bowlsby-big-12-commissioner-contract


The Big 12 Conference extended commissioner Bob Bowlsby’s contract through June 2025, it announced Friday. That exact deal length sure is interesting.

In the summer of 2016 and at other points over the last few years, the Big 12 publicly flirted with expansion beyond 10 teams. That didn’t come to fruition, and it probably won’t any time soon. But eventually, the league could move the other way and shrink.

Don't look for expansion either, BYU is NOT on the big 12 short list.

Zagceo
03-28-2018, 12:02 PM
Those Big12 teams aren't going anywhere at least until June 2025. Their commish and all teams signed a deal. I believe that's when their football TV deal runs out as well.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/22/16350026/bob-bowlsby-big-12-commissioner-contract



Don't look for expansion either, BYU is NOT on the big 12 short list.

Ya think a school could leverage itself with exit verbiage in the event something better came along? Hint hint

JPtheBeasta
03-28-2018, 12:02 PM
It takes two to tango. Taking two games with bottom-feeders off of the conference schedule does not guarantee a better OOC schedule. To that point, why was our OOC so weak this year? As others have said, P5 conferences are not reducing conference schedules. Nor would they, just to accommodate a home-and-away deals for few over-achieving mid-majors looking for RPI boosts.

Both decisions deal in what-ifs. A move to the MWC is not a certain fix. What if it tanks and the RPI dips? You’re back playing even more games against bad teams in that scenario. You can talk about possibilities vs plausibility but the fact remains that we cannot guarantee anything with either decision.

Gonzaga is a big draw and games against high level opponents are great for TV. We are not just a plucky overachieving mid major at this point. I have little doubt that GU will have problems finding enough dance partners.

A big problem is this: we have a lot of very opinionated people here who are dealing in contingencies as if they are certainties (and are even willing to insult people in the process).

bartruff1
03-28-2018, 12:27 PM
Well gee JP....I think I have been really nice...you know, compared to the Crosby....in truth I did attempt to post a very snarky reply to a person in here that I find annoying...BUT...a more mature and responsible moderator deep sixed it.....and for that....whoever you are ...Thank You.

thebigsmoove
03-28-2018, 12:31 PM
Those Big12 teams aren't going anywhere at least until June 2025. Their commish and all teams signed a deal. I believe that's when their football TV deal runs out as well.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/22/16350026/bob-bowlsby-big-12-commissioner-contract


Don't look for expansion either, BYU is NOT on the big 12 short list.

Im fully aware, which is why in the next post i mentioned it. LOL.

Just giving you a hard time buddy. :)

JPtheBeasta
03-28-2018, 12:35 PM
Well gee JP....I think I have been really nice...you know, compared to the Crosby....in truth I did attempt to post a very snarky reply to a person in here that I find annoying...BUT...a more mature and responsible moderator deep sixed it.....and for that....whoever you are ...Thank You.

I was actually referring to someone else. I’m sorry they erased your post, because it might have been entertaining :)

raise the zag
03-28-2018, 12:35 PM
The voting/poll is interesting.

Neck n neck! Evenly split! 50-50. Couldn't be any closer.

Wow.

Wonder how this compares to the administration and board votes?

Hmmm...

gonstu
03-28-2018, 12:56 PM
The voting/poll is interesting.

Neck n neck! Evenly split! 50-50. Couldn't be any closer.

Wow.

Wonder how this compares to the administration and board votes?

Hmmm...

If the votes were point totals in a basketball game - that would be one hell of a game. Lots of lead changes, no one pulling away. Based on current score, might be heading to OT.

I'm sure Few's watching the poll results intently to see how he should vote.

MDABE80
03-28-2018, 03:12 PM
Given the recent news from WCC, I wonder what the vote would be if taken today.

Zag_Dad
03-28-2018, 03:18 PM
Given the recent news from WCC, I wonder what the vote would be if taken today.

I believe this poll was initiated yesterday after the recent approval of WCC scheduling changes.

former1dog
03-28-2018, 03:37 PM
Given the recent news from WCC, I wonder what the vote would be if taken today.

I think that news was the impetus for this poll. I think the vote has tightened up quite a bit as a result.

I don't know if I've read your take Abe. Do you think we should stay in the WCC or move to the MWC?

MDABE80
03-28-2018, 04:17 PM
At this point and knowing what I know, I'd stay in the WCC. In the next 5 years or less, I doubt we'll be in the MWC or the WCC. Given the new concessions on scheduling, I think the WCC will be better for us. Albeit a bit late, they did what they could . Besides, the league's getting better. The SMC ,USF types need to play some serious games or be left out of the NCAA. But as long as we can expand our schedule to play some RPI type boosters, I don't see a big reason to leave right now. One caveat, we must have a good TV contract.

TravelinZag
03-28-2018, 04:50 PM
At this point and knowing what I know, I'd stay in the WCC. In the next 5 years or less, I doubt we'll be in the MWC or the WCC. Given the new concessions on scheduling, I think the WCC will be better for us. Albeit a bit late, they did what they could . Besides, the league's getting better. The SMC ,USF types need to play some serious games or be left out of the NCAA. But as long as we can expand our schedule to play some RPI type boosters, I don't see a big reason to leave right now. One caveat, we must have a good TV contract.

Excellent caveats, and agree Zags unlikely to be in either conference for long. However, believe any offer by WCC will be matched by MWC and is simply too little, too late, and heard the idle promises of improved competitions too long to be believable.

Move up and move on, with eyes wide open to repeat if/when better offers come our way.

Go Zags — out!! Unless, of course . . . .

bartruff1
03-28-2018, 05:37 PM
Hey Reno....according to your local Gazette ....the Mountain West gives a equal share of any NCAA Tourney Units to member schools.....

And according to them....... if Gonzaga leaves the WCC they will lose their shares....that money stays with the WCC......of course Gonzaga would get a share of the Mountain West units for this year..or not...

nvspuds
03-28-2018, 06:10 PM
Hey Reno....according to your local Gazette ....the Mountain West gives a equal share of any NCAA Tourney Units to member schools.....

And according to them....... if Gonzaga leaves the WCC they will lose their shares....that money stays with the WCC......of course Gonzaga would get a share of the Mountain West units for this year..or not...


I have exactly no idea..

spike_jr
03-28-2018, 06:17 PM
I have no doubt that the MW is a better conference - at least from the bottom to the middle. But at the end of the day, what does that get you? GU made it to the title game last year. On paper, we are by far better than any current team in the MW. They sent 2 teams to MM this year only because Nevada didn't win the conference tournament just like the WCC would have sent 2 teams to MM if any team not named Gonzaga wins the WCC tournament. So what does the MW give you that we don't already have? Another poster mentioned that BYU hovers right around 25 in RPI. Don't they play the same schedule we do (except we don't get to play ourselves)? Maybe a few less Howards, Immaculate Words, UIPUI, TXSo games.....

I really don't know which way is better. You can talk about RPI etc all you want, but I really don't see the MW (with GU) as being a perennial 4 bid league anytime soon. There isn't enough pie to go around (the P6 placed 31 of the possible 36 at large bids this year and that seems to be the current trend). And really, are you going to be excited to potentially play SJSU, AF, CSU, UNLV, USU multiple times per year? Its the same book, different cover.

Its going to boil down to $$$, just like everything else in life.

Lloyd Bonafide
03-28-2018, 07:49 PM
There has been a lot of comparison of the relative strengths of the WCC vs. the MWC.

But shouldn't we be discussing the conference strength of the WCC with Gonzaga, vs. the MWC with Gonzaga? That would be a huge contrast in conference RPI. The Mountain West with Gonzaga would rival some of the Power 6 BB conferences, and maybe would have been better than the Pac-12 this past year.

Zagceo
03-28-2018, 09:13 PM
WCC vs MWC BASKETBALL Facilities

BYU 18,987
Pacific 6,150
Gonzaga 6,000
San Diego 5,100
Portland 4,852
Santa Clara 4,700
San Francisco 4,200
St. Mary's 4,156
Loyola 3,900
Pepperdine 3,104



New Mexico 18,018
UNLV 18,000
Fresno St 15,596
SDSU 12,414
Boise St 12,380
Wyoming 11,612
Nevada 11,536
USU 10,270
Colorado St 8,745
Air Force 5,843
SJSU 5,000

MWC 8 arenas with 10,000+ capacity...........3 arenas with 15,000+ capacity
WCC 3 arenas in the 6,000 capacity range...........7 gyms with under 5,000 capacity

Birddog
03-29-2018, 05:17 AM
WCC vs MWC BASKETBALL Facilities

BYU 18,987
Pacific 6,150
Gonzaga 6,000
San Diego 5,100
Portland 4,852
Santa Clara 4,700
San Francisco 4,200
St. Mary's 4,156
Loyola 3,900
Pepperdine 3,104



New Mexico 18,018
UNLV 18,000
Fresno St 15,596
SDSU 12,414
Boise St 12,380
Wyoming 11,612
Nevada 11,536
USU 10,270
Colorado St 8,745
Air Force 5,843
SJSU 5,000

MWC 8 arenas with 10,000+ capacity...........3 arenas with 15,000+ capacity
WCC 3 arenas in the 6,000 capacity range...........7 gyms with under 5,000 capacity

OK, I'll play with some numbers.
Despite the much greater arena size, MWC averages only 6456 per game (2017 most recent year) for 7th place among conferences

WCC averages 3,946 per game for 11th place

WCC Tournament outdraws MWC Tournament (5 sessions each) with a WCC avg 7,830 vs MWC avg of 5,543

MWC only fills their seats to 54% capacity, while WCC averages 64% capacity

Average capacity for MWC is 11,765. lets take BSU as an example, they have an arena that seats 12,380 and they only average 5,396 or 44%

Teams in the MWC average 54% capacity while those band boxes in the WCC average 64% occupancy

So I agree, much bigger arenas in the MWC, more impressive by the number, but by percentage not that impressive IMO
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf

Zagger
03-29-2018, 05:24 AM
Hmmmm 88 to 88 after just voting. This time I went WCC. Last times it's been MWC. The underdogs have pulled even ;)

Birddog
03-29-2018, 05:39 AM
Hmmmm 88 to 88 after just voting. This time I went WCC. Last times it's been MWC. The underdogs have pulled even ;)

14 lead changes and you miss the back end of a 1 and 1, headed for OT.

RenoZag
03-29-2018, 06:03 AM
Hey Reno....according to your local Gazette ....the Mountain West gives a equal share of any NCAA Tourney Units to member schools.....

And according to them....... if Gonzaga leaves the WCC they will lose their shares....that money stays with the WCC......of course Gonzaga would get a share of the Mountain West units for this year..or not...

Chris Murray, the RGJ sportswriter who covers hoops (also an AP poll voter, FWIW) is usually a reliable source on MW stuff. I've no way to determine the veracity of the comments.

My standing view on this debate: It's all about the Benjamins. If GU can jump conferences without sustaining a net hit to its pocketbook ( e.g., saying good-bye to the NCAA "unit" money shares they earned for the WCC ) then I think it is more likely. All of the other points made in the three ( or is it four now ? ) threads addressing the possible conference move ( attendance, RPI, scheduling, etcetera ) make for some interesting reading and lively exchanges. None of it is as compelling as the financial aspects. Balance sheets and business cases will decide this.

I'll look forward to reading about the decision ( when it gets made) here on the GUB, your source for Gonzaga Basketball news & speculations !!

TexasZag
03-29-2018, 07:25 AM
Both decisions deal in what-ifs. A move to the MWC is not a certain fix. What if it tanks and the RPI dips? You’re back playing even more games against bad teams in that scenario. You can talk about possibilities vs plausibility but the fact remains that we cannot guarantee anything with either decision.

Gonzaga is a big draw and games against high level opponents are great for TV. We are not just a plucky overachieving mid major at this point. I have little doubt that GU will have problems finding enough dance partners.

A big problem is this: we have a lot of very opinionated people here who are dealing in contingencies as if they are certainties (and are even willing to insult people in the process).

Aside from your confidence in being able to schedule solid RPI opponents with the few new schedule slots we'll have, I pretty much agree with what you've said. It articulates the thought behind my original post. But I can't help but wonder how we wound up with the OOC schedule we had this season, if there were better options to be had. And with the WCC now mandating more home games than away, does this make scheduling top OOC competition even more challenging, especially with the P5 conferences seemingly clogging up their schedules with conference games and agreements with other P5 conferences for showcase events?

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 07:33 AM
Maybe this is a stupid question, or has already been answered (if so, I apologize), but how many total conference games would be playing vs WCC opponents if we stayed? And if we switched to the MWC, how many conf games would we have?


I'm just a bit thrown off by the new WCC scheduling changes. Would we have MORE or LESS conference games in one or the other conf?

TexasZag
03-29-2018, 07:37 AM
I have no doubt that the MW is a better conference - at least from the bottom to the middle. But at the end of the day, what does that get you? GU made it to the title game last year. On paper, we are by far better than any current team in the MW. They sent 2 teams to MM this year only because Nevada didn't win the conference tournament just like the WCC would have sent 2 teams to MM if any team not named Gonzaga wins the WCC tournament. So what does the MW give you that we don't already have? Another poster mentioned that BYU hovers right around 25 in RPI. Don't they play the same schedule we do (except we don't get to play ourselves)? Maybe a few less Howards, Immaculate Words, UIPUI, TXSo games.....

I really don't know which way is better. You can talk about RPI etc all you want, but I really don't see the MW (with GU) as being a perennial 4 bid league anytime soon. There isn't enough pie to go around (the P6 placed 31 of the possible 36 at large bids this year and that seems to be the current trend). And really, are you going to be excited to potentially play SJSU, AF, CSU, UNLV, USU multiple times per year? Its the same book, different cover.

Its going to boil down to $$$, just like everything else in life.

$$$ issues notwithstanding, I don't believe the primary concern should be how many teams from this conference or that make the tournament, but whether or not you come out of conference play better prepared to compete in the tournament. While not on par with the ACC or Big East, the MWC would at least provide stronger competition in the run-up to March; which, by most standards of reason, should better-prepare you for stiffer competition in the tournament.

And before making the jump I would suspect that the Gonzaga brass would secure an agreement with the MWC that basketball become a bigger priority for the conference. I doubt very seriously that they'd make the jump to a football conference, without some assurance that the conference is going to work to bring basketball up to GU's expectations.

Birddog
03-29-2018, 07:41 AM
Would we have MORE or LESS conference games in one or the other conf?

If I understand it correctly, the WCC is moving to a 16 game schedule down form 18. The MWC would have 12 teams if GU joins, if you played every team twice that would mean 22 games and that is not practical so I assume some sort of unbalanced schedule is in order probably either 16 or more likely18 games. MWC played 18 games in 2017/18.

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 07:56 AM
OK, I'll play with some numbers.
Despite the much greater arena size, MWC averages only 6456 per game (2017 most recent year) for 7th place among conferences

WCC averages 3,946 per game for 11th place

WCC Tournament outdraws MWC Tournament (5 sessions each) with a WCC avg 7,830 vs MWC avg of 5,543

MWC only fills their seats to 54% capacity, while WCC averages 64% capacity

Average capacity for MWC is 11,765. lets take BSU as an example, they have an arena that seats 12,380 and they only average 5,396 or 44%

Teams in the MWC average 54% capacity while those band boxes in the WCC average 64% occupancy

So I agree, much bigger arenas in the MWC, more impressive by the number, but by percentage not that impressive IMO
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf

if Zags could put in clause getting a percentage of the gate revenue above averages from away games...can’t hurt to ask.

The second best team in WCC ...across the bay from Silicon money ...plays in a Junior High gym.

The difference in programs....Few wanted a new Arena before a new contract...Randy opposite.

2017-18 Season

Gonzaga @ Pepperdine@Loyola@USD = 10,484

Gonzaga@ SDSU = 12,414

thebigsmoove
03-29-2018, 08:29 AM
Chris Murray, the RGJ sportswriter who covers hoops (also an AP poll voter, FWIW) is usually a reliable source on MW stuff. I've no way to determine the veracity of the comments.

My standing view on this debate: It's all about the Benjamins. If GU can jump conferences without sustaining a net hit to its pocketbook ( e.g., saying good-bye to the NCAA "unit" money shares they earned for the WCC ) then I think it is more likely. All of the other points made in the three ( or is it four now ? ) threads addressing the possible conference move ( attendance, RPI, scheduling, etcetera ) make for some interesting reading and lively exchanges. None of it is as compelling as the financial aspects. Balance sheets and business cases will decide this.

I'll look forward to reading about the decision ( when it gets made) here on the GUB, your source for Gonzaga Basketball news & speculations !!

We would just transition to making an equal share of the MWC existing tourney shares. Also from what ive heard they are likely to approve us getting a much larger portion of our own tourney shares since we are not going to be sharing in the Football revenue. Ultimately the TV issue looms large, we must maintain our presence on national TV, namely ESPN, and many people (including Mike Roth and Mark Few from what has been said) are skeptical this can occur in the WCC.

SWZag
03-29-2018, 08:33 AM
if Zags could put in clause getting a percentage of the gate revenue above averages from away games...can’t hurt to ask.

The second best team in WCC ...across the bay from Silicon money ...plays in a Junior High gym.

The difference in programs....Few wanted a new Arena before a new contract...Randy opposite.

2017-18 Season

Gonzaga @ Pepperdine@Loyola@USD = 10,484

Gonzaga@ SDSU = 12,414

Why are people so obsession with "high school" and "middle school" gyms?

In your example, combining attendance numbers of Pepperdine, LMU and San Diego sounds like SDSU is far ahead. But...

With your proposal of having a percentage of the gate revenue for any value greater than the average, SDSU would be a poor choice. It would actually be better to negotiate that with the three WCC schools you listed than SDSU.

Numbers of attendances and arena sizes already put together here: http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?62638-Additional-Thoughts-w-Possible-MWC-Move&p=1379135#post1379135

Using simple (not accurate) numbers for ease of the example, all tickets at all sites cost $10 AND when GU visits, it's a full house, no empty seats.

If we were to get a percentage of anything over average, the dollar values are as follows:

School: avg attendance, arena capacity, above avg with GU visit, dollar value
- SDSU: 12,195, 12,414, 219, $2,199
- Pepperdine: 1,368, 3,104, 1,736, $17,360
- LMU: 2,202, 4,156, 1,954, $19,540
- USD: 1,619, 5,100, 3,481, $34,810

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 08:39 AM
Why are people so obsession with "high school" and "middle school" gyms?

ask Coach Few why getting a new Arena was his first priority

JPtheBeasta
03-29-2018, 08:42 AM
Maybe this is a stupid question, or has already been answered (if so, I apologize), but how many total conference games would be playing vs WCC opponents if we stayed? And if we switched to the MWC, how many conf games would we have?


I'm just a bit thrown off by the new WCC scheduling changes. Would we have MORE or LESS conference games in one or the other conf?

It looks like everyone in the MWC played 18 conference games last year, so the GU add could result in 20.

IIRC, the Zags are looking at 16 conference games next year in the WCC.

I like the idea of less conference games and more flexibility to play marquee games (read: fun, national, made-for-TV matchups), but to each his own.

SWZag
03-29-2018, 08:44 AM
ask Coach Few why getting a new Arena was his first priority

I'm pretty confident that "high school gyms" is not in anyone's vocabulary with this decision.

Any thoughts on the rest of my post?

JPtheBeasta
03-29-2018, 08:44 AM
ask Coach Few why getting a new Arena was his first priority

Players definitely talk about how cool the Kennel is. It seems to be one of those intangible things that you have to experience for it to mean much. As someone who’s only gone to a couple of games there, that’s been my experience.

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 08:49 AM
I'm pretty confident that "high school gyms" is not in anyone's vocabulary with this decision.

Any thoughts on the rest of my post?

ESPN might disagree.

Your numbers seem to be different than Birddogs.....he has MWC averaging 6400 per game....did you cherry pick SDSU?

SWZag
03-29-2018, 08:56 AM
ESPN might disagree.

Your numbers seem to be different than Birddogs.....he has MWC averaging 6400 per game....did you cherry pick SDSU?

No, you did and was responding to your post. See what you wrote. I can do the whole conference if you like. The WCC attends games better than the MWC when you consider school size and capacity.

Birddog and my numbers are not significantly different, 300 different, could be due to rounding. See the link I provided for all my numbers, with the sources.

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 09:07 AM
No, you did and was responding to your post. See what you wrote. I can do the whole conference if you like. The WCC attends games better than the MWC when you consider school size and capacity.

Birddog and my numbers are not significantly different, 300 different, could be due to rounding. See the link I provided for all my numbers, with the sources.

You have SDSU averaging 12,195 and Birddog has MWC averaging 6456....where am I going wrong?

Do Wyoming

bballbeachbum
03-29-2018, 09:07 AM
It looks like everyone in the MWC played 18 conference games last year, so the GU add could result in 20.

IIRC, the Zags are looking at 16 conference games next year in the WCC.

I like the idea of less conference games and more flexibility to play marquee games (read: fun, national, made-for-TV matchups), but to each his own.

+1

former1dog
03-29-2018, 09:18 AM
$$$ issues notwithstanding, I don't believe the primary concern should be how many teams from this conference or that make the tournament, but whether or not you come out of conference play better prepared to compete in the tournament. While not on par with the ACC or Big East, the MWC would at least provide stronger competition in the run-up to March; which, by most standards of reason, should better-prepare you for stiffer competition in the tournament.

And before making the jump I would suspect that the Gonzaga brass would secure an agreement with the MWC that basketball become a bigger priority for the conference. I doubt very seriously that they'd make the jump to a football conference, without some assurance that the conference is going to work to bring basketball up to GU's expectations.


Excellent point.


Blind taste test. In the last 10 years, which conference produced which NCAA Tournament Record:

Conference A
14 wins
27 losses
4 Sweet 16's

Conference B
24 wins
17 losses
5 Sweet 16's
2 Elite 8's
1 Final 4

:D

Birddog
03-29-2018, 09:19 AM
ESPN might disagree.

Your numbers seem to be different than Birddogs.....he has MWC averaging 6400 per game....did you cherry pick SDSU?

I got my figures here
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf

I could have messed up some math while craving caffeine.

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 09:21 AM
Excellent point.


Blind taste test. In the last 10 years, which conference produced which NCAA Tournament Record:

Conference A
14 wins
27 losses
4 Sweet 16's

Conference B
24 wins
17 losses
5 Sweet 16's
2 Elite 8's
1 Final 4

:D


Does the MWC really not have ONE Elite 8 in the last 10 years...??

former1dog
03-29-2018, 09:25 AM
Does the MWC really not have ONE Elite 8 in the last 10 years...??

They really don't. What if I told you that the MWC has NEVER had an Elite 8 team?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/mwc/

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 09:30 AM
They really don't. What if I told you that the MWC has NEVER had an Elite 8 team?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/mwc/

Wait....UNLV has won the National championship though? Right? Or am I missing something?

primal23
03-29-2018, 09:31 AM
Wait....UNLV has won the National championship though? Right? Or am I missing something?

They do but that was before MWC existed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SWZag
03-29-2018, 09:32 AM
You have SDSU averaging 12,195 and Birddog has MWC averaging 6456....where am I going wrong?

Do Wyoming

Ok. I think you aren't understanding what you are writing. You are comparing apples and oranges in comparing Birddog and my data. Of course they're different, one is SDSU and one is MWC.

Let's cherry pick Wyoming then.
- Wyoming: 4,571, 12,397, 7,826, $78,260.

Wyoming is a good example that if the MWC has better teams, why on earth are they only filling their arena at 30.4% on average (only Air Force [28.9%] is worse). On the flip side, Wyoming is one of the better schools when comparing their average attendance to school size, 36% (only New Mexico [44.7%], UNLV [46.7%] and Air Force [41.2%] are better). Compare this to GU at 80.9% (Second in the WCC to Portland at 82%)

These numbers give us a little idea of basketball interest. If I can find the time to look at football, my guess is that interest would be far higher in the MWC than basketball, whichis also a concern.

All the numbers: http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?62638-Additional-Thoughts-w-Possible-MWC-Move&p=1379135#post1379135

former1dog
03-29-2018, 09:33 AM
Wait....UNLV has won the National championship though? Right? Or am I missing something?

UNLV won the national title in dominant fashion in 1990. I remember that team and was blown away by how good they were.

The came out of the mighty Big West conference.

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 09:34 AM
They do but that was before MWC existed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah. Gotcha. Wow.....

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 09:35 AM
UNLV won the national title in dominant fashion in 1990. I remember that team and was blown away by how good they were.

The came out of the mighty Big West conference.

I forget how 'young' the MWC is. Wow. No elite 8's. That's......not only surprising, but shockingly bad in my opinion...no final four's is one thing.....but no elite 8's?!?!

strikenowhere
03-29-2018, 09:35 AM
Excellent point.

Blind taste test. In the last 10 years, which conference produced which NCAA Tournament Record:

:D

Lets take the Zags out of the equation and compare numbers then:

Conference A
14 wins
27 losses
4 Sweet 16's

Conference B
4 wins
6 losses
1 Sweet 16 (St. Mary's 2013)


That's quite the disparity in the number of teams/game in the tournament if you don't count the Zags.

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 09:37 AM
The fact that most on the board know the story about Norm Few and 54 years at the same church Mark 30 years at Gonzaga.

Talk of conference change is disruptive and would only be considered if the deciders knew bigger changes would alter Gonzaga Brand by staying in the WCC.

I don't think the status quo is part of the discussion around the table.

Large majority agrees Big East change no brainer...Pac-12 change no brainer...

seems like people are holding their nose while defending WCC while same time criticizing MWC for being no better than WCC..which has been proven wrong many times over.

SWZag
03-29-2018, 09:38 AM
Lets take the Zags out of the equation and compare numbers then:

Conference A
14 wins
27 losses
4 Sweet 16's

Conference B
4 wins
6 losses
1 Sweet 16 (St. Mary's 2013)


That's quite the disparity in the number of teams/game in the tournament if you don't count the Zags.

If you take GU out, it's obviously going to make the numbers lopsided. You would need to also take out the automatic bid from the other conference to make it realistic.

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 09:50 AM
before I wanted the change but thought it wouldn't happen

I'm changing my mind....The deal to change conferences will be announced next week.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 10:00 AM
before I wanted the change but thought it wouldn't happen

I'm changing my mind....The deal to change conferences will be announced next week.

I'm cautiously optimistic. I can only go based on what I've heard.

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 10:20 AM
I am very optimistic , I can only go based upon what I've heard.

JoeDawg
03-29-2018, 10:32 AM
I am very optimistic , I can only go based upon what I've heard.

It's a done deal. Just finalizing minor details. Mw and Gonzaga both benefit greatly.

former1dog
03-29-2018, 10:40 AM
It's a done deal. Just finalizing minor details. Mw and Gonzaga both benefit greatly.

Thanks Joe,

As you understand it, can you describe the process that has made it a “done deal “.

I’m anxious to hear your explanation.

Zagdawg
03-29-2018, 10:41 AM
Good news -- so the Gonzaga management team and consultants reviewed all the data and decided to proceed with the best interest of the university in mind.

I am supportive of their decision.

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 10:42 AM
It's a done deal. Just finalizing minor details. Mw and Gonzaga both benefit greatly.

Now isn't that interesting....I was also told Wen. it was a done deal ....decision made quickly Monday morning and the team informed Tuesday morning...

But I hasten to add that I was not told that by one of the principles making the decision...but by a clerical individual.... there are of course...... no secrets in the mailroom..... we will find out soon enough...

AztecDen
03-29-2018, 10:45 AM
They do but that was before MWC existed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The MWC has only been around for 19 years. In the last 19 years how many teams outside of Gonzaga have made the Elite 8? <Cue theme from Jeopardy>

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 10:46 AM
1 MWC board member thoughts


While I have no inside sources, it just doesn't make sense that Gonzaga would stay. To summarize, it's a common belief that Gonzaga is not satisfied with their WCC due to their co-horts lack of investment in their Men's Basketball programs and facilities and their OOC scheduling (sans BYU). These schools for the most part are prestigious academic institutions that would rather spend their very large endowments on research and educational expansion efforts rather than something as frivolous as sports, most notably Men's Basketball.

So the solution for that is to take significantly more pure Men's Basketball money in the form of NCAA tourney credits away from these schools, mandate that they have fewer games with the conference's biggest attendance driver, pretend that this allows these teams to schedule better OOC games at a time when the major conferences are playing MORE conference games, not less (and they definitely don't want to do home-and-homes with Pepperdine!) and that will fix everything? Not seeing it. At all.


Yes, it benefits Gonzaga, but it is a loss for all but 3 of the WCC programs and I'm not sure that even St. Mary's can shoulder the historical loss of basketball funds. Meanwhile, every issue that Gonzaga has with the WCC (that can't be fixed by the current solution on the table) AREN'T issues in the MWC and if there are issues, due to historical finances in Men's Basketball, the MWC can meet-or-beat any compromise the WCC puts on the table for Gonzaga at NO FINANCIAL DISADVANTAGE, and in fact a benefit for the current MWC Men's Basketball Programs.


Based on logic alone and of course my humble opinion, I'd give it a 90% chance of being done next week and a 100% chance that the Zags are gone within the next two years (and the ONLY current conference that makes sense/would extend an invite is the MWC).

former1dog
03-29-2018, 10:46 AM
Good news -- so the Gonzaga management team and consultants reviewed all the data and decided to proceed with the best interest of the university in mind.

I am supportive of their decision.


So you’re saying this decision was put in the hands of the “Gonzaga management team “?

Who is on that team? Just curious?

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 10:47 AM
Now isn't that interesting....I was also told Wen. it was a done deal ....decision made quickly Monday morning and the team informed Tuesday morning...

But I hasten to add that I was not told that by one of the principles making the decision...but by a clerical individual.... there are of course...... no secrets in the mailroom..... we will find out soon enough...

That is interesting. Sounds like a lot of people were not on the same page throughout this whole ordeal.

Alum08
03-29-2018, 10:58 AM
Do you know if any other teams will be joining us (from the WCC or elsewhere)?

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 11:04 AM
Do you know if any other teams will be joining us (from the WCC or elsewhere)?

I was told Gonzaga is staying in the WCC....that there was no compelling reason to change conferences....but that is no more than gossip ...at least second hand and maybe more hands....we shall see ....

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 11:10 AM
Wait, huh? We have people saying their sources say it's a done deal, and other people with sources saying we are staying?

Zagdawg
03-29-2018, 11:12 AM
If you cant figure out who the management team is at the school ..... I really don't know what to tell you.

Give you a hint-- as an alum and donor I was not consulted.

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 11:16 AM
Wait, huh? We have people saying their sources say it's a done deal, and other people with sources saying we are staying?

Both are saying it is a done deal....but a different deal.....both done....:D

Kind of like....if we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs....if we had some eggs...

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 11:17 AM
Wait, huh? We have people saying their sources say it's a done deal, and other people with sources saying we are staying?

I have a feeling that some of the sources on either side are not people with first-hand knowledge of the situation.

former1dog
03-29-2018, 11:19 AM
If you cant figure out who the management team is at the school ..... I really don't know what to tell you.

Give you a hint-- as an alum and donor I was not consulted.

Hint: It’s a trick question designed to draw out the veracity of those making claims that it is “a done deal”.

Zagdawg
03-29-2018, 11:20 AM
Whoohoo -- can you have your special 4-legged friend paint us a picture to give us a clue about what is transpiring.

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 11:21 AM
I have a feeling that some of the sources on either side are not people with first-hand knowledge of the situation.

I know that I don't have any first hand knowledge...I have not had any contact with the deciders in weeks.....

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 11:22 AM
Hint: It’s a trick question designed to draw out the veracity of those making claims that it is “a done deal”.

Riiiiiiigggghhht.

Zagdawg
03-29-2018, 11:25 AM
Hoping Francis bites on that "trick question" for us.

jchocolate99
03-29-2018, 11:26 AM
I'm believing the "it's a done deal" crowd... Obviously we won't know till we know but I've been lurking every mountain west teams forums and I keep seeing the same thing that so and so has connections in their respective schools and hear it's a done deal but they want to wait to announce till after the tourney so announcement isn't competing with the final four. If it's a done deal the admins at the other schools would obviously already know... Like I said we won't know till we know but the things I see people saying on these other boards seem pretty consistent in what they are saying as far as the news

SWZag
03-29-2018, 11:27 AM
Whoohoo -- can you have your special 4-legged friend paint us a picture to give us a clue about what is transpiring.

This!

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 11:28 AM
mailrooms....isn't that where junk mail goes to die?....lol

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 11:35 AM
Whoohoo -- can you have your special 4-legged friend paint us a picture to give us a clue about what is transpiring.

He's been in jail since last Thur (don't ask....but let's just say it was a mistake to get him his own GoPro last Christmas...). He gets out tomorrow morning though, so maybe he can work one up then.

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 11:36 AM
Ex Pfc Wintergreen...

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 11:41 AM
if 1 person in the mailroom knows the answer.....how many others would probably know before that person? 50?

ESPN Goodman will probably know before a mailroom employee since ESPN is at the table..IMHO of course..lol

Robzagnut
03-29-2018, 11:46 AM
"Can't wait till we play Pepperdine, LMU, Pacific, Portland and Santa Clara again and if we are REALLY lucky, multiple times next season."

GU played these teams this year?!?!?

I didn't notice, I had more important/exciting things to do.

Saxon_zag
03-29-2018, 11:46 AM
I'm never going to understand why this poll is 50/50. The wcc does not deserve the zags. Their last ditch scheduling changes they just made should have already been implemented years ago. We should have never had to play more than 2 games in Vegas but they milked their cash cow for the most attendance they could get to make us play some drag of a game against LMU or Santa Clara. It would feel good to leave, more than justified.

SWZag
03-29-2018, 11:52 AM
I'm never going to understand why this poll is 50/50. The wcc does not deserve the zags. Their last ditch scheduling changes they just made should have already been implemented years ago. We should have never had to play more than 2 games in Vegas but they milked their cash cow for the most attendance they could get to make us play some drag of a game against LMU or Santa Clara. It would feel good to leave, more than justified.

And without the MWC fans here (not associated with GU), the poll wouldn't even be 50-50. The tilt would go to the WCC.

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 11:52 AM
I am reminded of Mark Fews quote


“We’re trying to do what’s best for our program,” Few said. “We’ve been a good soldier that has generated a huge number. What we’ve done with our facilities, with our program, with our travel, every phase. We want everyone (in the WCC) to take that step and move forward. It’s complicated. In the end, we’ll analyze everything and do what we feel is best for the program.”

looking for those tell signs that support my choice

past tense used means its a done deal. :lmao:


https://www.slipperstillfits.com/2018/3/8/17095196/mountain-west-conference-expansion-rumors-gonzaga-bulldogs

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 11:52 AM
I'm never going to understand why this poll is 50/50. The wcc does not deserve the zags. Their last ditch scheduling changes they just made should have already been implemented years ago. We should have never had to play more than 2 games in Vegas but they milked their cash cow for the most attendance they could get to make us play some drag of a game against LMU or Santa Clara. It would feel good to leave, more than justified.

It's not a matter of 'if'. It's 'when'. The GU/WCC relationship is Stage 4 cancer, at this point. Some just aren't ready to pull the plug, and call it.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 11:54 AM
I am reminded of Mark Fews quote



looking for those tell signs that support my choice

past tense used means its a done deal. :lmao:


https://www.slipperstillfits.com/2018/3/8/17095196/mountain-west-conference-expansion-rumors-gonzaga-bulldogs

And notice the expectation put out there...they want everyone to be doing what they are doing. Man, what a smug coach, amiright?!

SWZag
03-29-2018, 11:56 AM
GU played these teams this year?!?!?

I didn't notice, I had more important/exciting things to do.

Yep, and I enjoyed each one of them!

We can get you a schedule to print to help get your priorities right. Or, maybe you'll find more important things to do when we play San Jose State, Air Force, Colorado State, or Utah State. :)

JPtheBeasta
03-29-2018, 11:59 AM
Both are saying it is a done deal....but a different deal.....both done....:D

Kind of like....if we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs....if we had some eggs...

It’s hard enough getting people to agree on where to go for breakfast...

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 12:01 PM
And notice the expectation put out there...they want everyone to be doing what they are doing. Man, what a smug coach, amiright?!

and Judgmental........ yyright !

gueastcoast
03-29-2018, 12:09 PM
Yep, and I enjoyed each one of them!

We can get you a schedule to print to help get your priorities right. Or, maybe you'll find more important things to do when we play San Jose State, Air Force, Colorado State, or Utah State. :)

Bingo.

Cr*p teams are crap teams, every conference has them. I watch every game I can because a) I love my Zags and b) every so often a cr*p team catches fire and challenges you.

bigblahla
03-29-2018, 12:14 PM
A new challenge is needed to reach new heights....Coach isn't going anywhere but he can't build what he wants in the WCC, doesn't have the support beams....feels like he hit the ceiling, wants a new challenge and with what's going on out there in TV land it's the right move...but what do I know?

Just my opinion....

Go!! Zags!!!

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 12:16 PM
Bingo.

Cr*p teams are crap teams, every conference has them. I watch every game I can because a) I love my Zags and b) every so often a cr*p team catches fire and challenges you.

DirecTVnow didn't even carry all the krap games ....TheW blacked out games in markets like LA when USD Pepperdine Loyola Pacific would play Zags.the brand is getting squeezed

former1dog
03-29-2018, 12:18 PM
Riiiiiiigggghhht.


Yep.

Are any of these "done dealers" going to step up and tell me how this works? Maybe just give me the name of the "Gonzaga Management Team" or is that what they call themselves? When did they meet or have a conference call to determine that it was a "done deal"?

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 12:19 PM
How much will The Orleans hate this...?

Zagdawg
03-29-2018, 12:20 PM
Francis is going to make a special image with all of the facts for you to review in the next day or two.

gozagswoohoo
03-29-2018, 12:21 PM
So you’re saying this decision was put in the hands of the “Gonzaga management team “?

Who is on that team? Just curious?

Francis the Goat, the head coach of Gonzaga's Curling team, and Carl (the guy who buffers the hallway floors of the dorms at night)

I trust whatever decision they make.

raise the zag
03-29-2018, 12:22 PM
How much will The Orleans hate this...?

Gonzaga is WCC's AND The Orleans 'cash cow'.

I will go back to The Orleans for that amazing chinese food restaurant. Some of the best food in Vegas.

Robzagnut
03-29-2018, 12:23 PM
Yep, and I enjoyed each one of them!

We can get you a schedule to print to help get your priorities right. Or, maybe you'll find more important things to do when we play San Jose State, Air Force, Colorado State, or Utah State. :)


Have a schedule on my frig and on my PC's desktop. I have my priorities 'correct' and there's no need to watch. Been watching the same reruns for 10 years now. The only question in those games is whether Jesse Wade and company get to play at the 5:00 minute mark or at 3:00?

I would greatly welcome San Jose State, Air Force, Colorado State, or Utah State over the bums that will never ever get better. Especially when you fail to mention Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, Fresno St, UNLV and Boise St. That's 10-12 decent conference games a year over the 4 that are played now against BYU and SMC. Even more if BYU moves too.

Zagdawg
03-29-2018, 12:25 PM
How much will The Orleans hate this...?

Some Zag fans may still stay at the Orleans .....when attending the Thomas Mack for the games (19,522 seats).

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 12:25 PM
How much will The Orleans hate this...?

smart fingers betting the house on 70mm

https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc.slashgear.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F09%2Fsmartfinger-sg.jpg&sp=ba3bea68d37a6223380ae6e2d3c3f98d

Saxon_zag
03-29-2018, 12:25 PM
Yep, and I enjoyed each one of them!

We can get you a schedule to print to help get your priorities right. Or, maybe you'll find more important things to do when we play San Jose State, Air Force, Colorado State, or Utah State. :)

at least those teams have arenas and not gyms. Still better prep than february and march games in tiny California gyms.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 12:25 PM
Gonzaga is WCC's AND The Orleans 'cash cow'.

I will go back to The Orleans for that amazing chinese food restaurant. Some of the best food in Vegas.

Well, why didn't you say so?! How can I change my vote? Who cares about good basketball. I'm all in for great Chinese food.

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 12:28 PM
Gonzaga is WCC's AND The Orleans 'cash cow'.

I will go back to The Orleans for that amazing chinese food restaurant. Some of the best food in Vegas.

it took #193 posts...but i just learned something useful.

THX raise

Saxon_zag
03-29-2018, 12:29 PM
Have a schedule on my frig and on my PC's desktop. I have my priorities 'correct' and there's no need to watch. Been watching the same reruns for 10 years now. The only question in those games is whether Jesse Wade and company get to play at the 5:00 minute mark or at 3:00?

I would greatly welcome San Jose State, Air Force, Colorado State, or Utah State over the bums that will never ever get better. Especially when you fail to mention Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, Fresno St, UNLV and Boise St. That's 10-12 decent conference games a year over the 4 that are played now against BYU and SMC. Even more if BYU moves too.

For real.. Pretending MWC bottom feeders equate to WCC being full of bottom feeders is silly... 3 of those 4 teams would probably be right behind us and SMC if they were playing a wcc schedule. I know change is hard sometimes guys. It needs to happen.

raise the zag
03-29-2018, 12:37 PM
Well, why didn't you say so?! How can I change my vote? Who cares about good basketball. I'm all in for great Chinese food.

Don't knock it til u try it. Trust me.

It might sway your vote after eating that garlic lo mein...and amazing happy hour to boot.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 12:37 PM
For real.. Pretending MWC bottom feeders equate to WCC being full of bottom feeders is silly... 3 of those 4 teams would probably be right behind us and SMC if they were playing a wcc schedule. I know change is hard sometimes guys. It needs to happen.

Something that doesn't get talked about almost at all:

Put yourself in the shoes of the coaches. These guys have to travel. They have to spend time away from family. A lot of it. Imagine consistently missing out on recruits that can get your program to the next level because of your conference affiliation. Imagine all that time and toil spent on the road to get punched in the teeth, time after time...after time. Shame on anyone who doesn't want the most ideal setting for those coaches to succeed. That is their livelihood. That time they spend with family is precious. That time they spend away from them should be respected to the fullest.

Imagine yourself at your job, and your employer willingly disregarding putting the tools in your possession to succeed. How would that feel? It would be crap, and you would have something to say about it. And if you had an opportunity that you thought was better, you might take a look at that opportunity and actually accept it. The WCC and just about every other school has been terrible at stepping up. It affects our coaches and their salaries, their endorsements. It affects player perceptions and draft statuses.

And what of the donors and the fans? How much money gets poured into this program. We should never see that money wasted, and playing such low-quality opponents year after year is doing precisely that.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 12:38 PM
Don't knock it til u try it. Trust me.

It might sway your vote after eating that garlic lo mein...

Well, either way we'll be going back to Vegas. And since we won't be playing till Monday, if we stay in the WCC, I can skip watching bad basketball for the opening rounds and just crush a bunch of bomb Chinese food.

SWZag
03-29-2018, 12:39 PM
Something that doesn't get talked about almost at all:

Put yourself in the shoes of the coaches. These guys have to travel. They have to spend time away from family. A lot of it. Imagine consistently missing out on recruits that can get your program to the next level because of your conference affiliation. Imagine all that time and toil spent on the road to get punched in the teeth, time after time...after time. Shame on anyone who doesn't want the most ideal setting for those coaches to succeed. That is their livelihood. That time they spend with family is precious. That time they spend away from them should be respected to the fullest.

Imagine yourself at your job, and your employer willingly disregarding putting the tools in your possession to succeed. How would that feel? It would be crap, and you would have something to say about it. And if you had an opportunity that you thought was better, you might take a look at that opportunity and actually accept it. The WCC and just about every other school has been terrible at stepping up. It affects our coaches and their salaries, their endorsements. It affects player perceptions and draft statuses.

And what of the donors and the fans? How much money gets poured into this program. We should never see that money wasted, and playing such low-quality opponents year after year is doing precisely that.

So you think our coaches haven't succeeded and we're the only ones who have lost out on recruits? I appreciate and wouldn't expect anything different in terms of recruits. Just me.

kitzbuel
03-29-2018, 12:42 PM
And without the MWC fans here (not associated with GU), the poll wouldn't even be 50-50. The tilt would go to the WCC.

I reserve the right to make my vote once I know which way the wind is blowing... :D

SWZag
03-29-2018, 12:45 PM
I reserve the right to make my vote once I know which way the wind is blowing... :D

Haha. The wind is blowing every which way right now.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 12:46 PM
So you think our coaches haven't succeeded and we're the only ones who have lost out on recruits? I appreciate and wouldn't expect anything different in terms of recruits. Just me.

No. Those are both very far off of what I said.

SWZag
03-29-2018, 12:56 PM
No. Those are both very far off of what I said.

My apologies, based on "Shame on anyone who doesn't want the most ideal setting for those coaches to succeed," I took that to mean the coaches weren't able to succeed. I know the Coaches recruit during the season as it is. Has anyone looked and how much more time GU would spend on the road if they joined the MWC? You would replace a short trip to Portland for a trip to Albuquerque or Colorado Springs.

Would be interesting to know.

CDC84
03-29-2018, 01:10 PM
Really interesting how the poll is almost 50/50 right now. A tight race!

Luckily there are no chads :)

former1dog
03-29-2018, 01:18 PM
It's a done deal. Just finalizing minor details. Mw and Gonzaga both benefit greatly.


Joe,

I don't mean to be a bully but this is a REALLY incredible claim. I want to give you one more opportunity to clarify this post or walk it back.

CDC84
03-29-2018, 01:22 PM
People can make all the proclamations they want, but it's not close to being a done deal. Hardly any talks and negotiations have taken place. And if it happens, it very likely won't happen NEXT season.

Also, Mark Few and even Mike Roth have far, far, far less power in the decision making behind a possible to the MWC than the CBS article and San Diego Union Tribune article indicate. These authors do not understand all that must take place for Gonzaga to change leagues. It's far more convoluted than they think.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 01:31 PM
People can make all the proclamations they want, but it's not close to being a done deal. Hardly any talks and negotiations have taken place. And if it happens, it very likely won't happen NEXT season.

Also, Mark Few and even Mike Roth have less power in the decision making behind a possible to the MWC than the CBS article and San Diego Union Tribune article indicate. These authors do not understand all that must take place for Gonzaga to change leagues. It's far more convoluted than they think.

Don't buy the bolded section, at all. I am more on the side that it doesn't happen, though...for now.

CDC84
03-29-2018, 01:41 PM
I have no doubt that some negotiations and talks have taken place, but we are at the very, very, very beginning stages. It's probably more information gathering than anything else, and I know for a fact that only a few people are involved. Most of the people who will be deciding on this matter haven't even met yet and won't be meeting for some time.

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 01:43 PM
People can make all the proclamations they want, but it's not close to being a done deal. Hardly any talks and negotiations have taken place. And if it happens, it very likely won't happen NEXT season.

Also, Mark Few and even Mike Roth have far, far, far less power in the decision making behind a possible to the MWC than the CBS article and San Diego Union Tribune article indicate. These authors do not understand all that must take place for Gonzaga to change leagues. It's far more convoluted than they think.

Would your insider know if conference calls are or aren’t happening between GONZAGA MWC & ESPN?

in other words....is HE/SHE IN THE CIRCLE OF TRUTH?

we could play the old “Whats my line game”

CDC84
03-29-2018, 01:54 PM
Would your insider know if conference calls are or aren’t happening between GONZAGA MWC & ESPN?

in other words....is HE/SHE IN THE CIRCLE OF TRUTH?

we could play the old “Whats my line game”

I have a source, yes. I have no idea of the nature of the discussions that have taken place thus far. All I am saying is that the progress of what is going on right now is much slower than some posters think and what some sportswriters think. And that many, many people who will be a part of this decision haven't even formally discussed the issue yet. Patience, patience.

I make a very clear distinction between what is personal opinion and what is the truth. And the two aren't always the same.

I will give one personal opinion that you sort of brought up.....this deal will NOT happen unless Gonzaga and the MWC work with ESPN to establish a new TV deal once the MWC's current deal expires. Besides the players, coaches and donors, no entity has helped make Gonzaga a national brand name more than ESPN. In fact, I have always suspected that 50%+ of the reason why the MWC wants Gonzaga is that it gives them a greater chance of landing a ESPN deal and ditching the CBS College Sports Network.

former1dog
03-29-2018, 02:06 PM
Don't buy the bolded section, at all. I am more on the side that it doesn't happen, though...for now.

Well, if I were a betting man....

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 02:06 PM
CDC I appreciate the candor..I’d bet your sources are more right than wrong. Always value your info. thanks
My minds eye of you....maybe w/o hat. ; )

http://filmint.nu/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Jack-Webb.jpg

Zagceo
03-29-2018, 02:17 PM
I have a I will give one personal opinion that you sort of brought up.....this deal will NOT happen unless Gonzaga and the MWC work with ESPN to establish a new TV deal once the MWC's current deal expires. Besides the players, coaches and donors, no entity has helped make Gonzaga a national brand name more than ESPN. In fact, I have always suspected that 50%+ of the reason why the MWC wants Gonzaga is that it gives them a greater chance of landing a ESPN deal and ditching the CBS College Sports Network.

This should be fairly cut and dry as far as ESPN is involved. From what I’ve read ESPN gets first shot at all MWC games and CBS gets the carcasses. Meaning ESPN knows what the values are with and without Gonzaga in MWC vs WCC.

The one place where Gonzaga can really make hay would be the digital rights issues with MWC...from my understanding of tv rights contracts. Which are .....I slept at a holiday inn express last night formerdog just so you know.

former1dog
03-29-2018, 02:42 PM
CDC I appreciate the candor..I’d bet your sources are more right than wrong.

Survey says!

Now you're on to something.

former1dog
03-29-2018, 02:43 PM
The one place where Gonzaga can really make hay would be the digital rights issues with MWC...from my understanding of tv rights contracts. Which are .....I slept at a holiday inn express last night formerdog just so you know.

Hey, at least you're honest, which is more than I can say for some other incredible and recent claims in this thread.

kitzbuel
03-29-2018, 03:22 PM
CDC I appreciate the candor..I’d bet your sources are more right than wrong. Always value your info. thanks
My minds eye of you....maybe w/o hat. ; )

http://filmint.nu/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Jack-Webb.jpg

His sources tend to be pretty close to the program and, as is the general pattern with people close to or with the program, they are pretty tight lipped. They have learned pretty quickly that any info they give is instantly on the internet.

So, that being said, the reality is that there is fairly limited real inside information available.

thebigsmoove
03-29-2018, 03:24 PM
I find all the "I have sources" talk funny. I think a whole lot of people have sources that are at varying levels of bad information. For example, i personally have sources outside Gonzaga that confirm talks have taken place to move Mens Soccer for 2018-19. So Ziegler isnt as far off as some of the WCC homers think. Thats not even really a secret anymore though. I also dont think this is "done", but im at about 80% that it will happen for 2018-19 and will be announced by next thursday afternoon or friday morning. No offense to any of the prognosticators, just my two cents.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 03:24 PM
His sources tend to be pretty close to the program and, as is the general pattern with people close to or with the program, they are pretty tight lipped. They have learned pretty quickly that any info they give is instantly on the internet.

So, that being said, the reality is that there is fairly limited real inside information available.

Yep. Those who have access to the most information are the ones that never use it, and are known to be that way.

thebigsmoove
03-29-2018, 03:28 PM
Oh and btw, Utah State isnt exactly Pepperdine or Loyola Marymount when it comes to basketball. Stew Morrill had the Aggies in Zag territory for awhile there, one of the highest winning percentages in the country. Their student section is absolutely fabulous, one of the toughest environments to play in the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH65jS-EseQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARpzavb7PQk

Sleeping Giant is more like it.

Coach Crazy
03-29-2018, 03:35 PM
Oh and btw, Utah State isnt exactly Pepperdine or Loyola Marymount when it comes to basketball. Stew Morrill had the Aggies in Zag territory for awhile there, one of the highest winning percentages in the country. Their student section is absolutely fabulous, one of the toughest environments to play in the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH65jS-EseQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARpzavb7PQk

Sleeping Giant is more like it.

You just have to convince people to go to Logan. It took a date with a beautiful woman for me to get me up there.

thebigsmoove
03-29-2018, 03:47 PM
You just have to convince people to go to Logan. It took a date with a beautiful woman for me to get me up there.

Well maybe Zag fans will have an excuse to experience the beauty of northern Utah and the fanbase in Logan now.

jchocolate99
03-29-2018, 03:53 PM
CDC probably does have good sources close to the organization but I have a hard time believing that barely any talks have transpired with this whole thing. For them to say they are looking to hopefully make a decision soon means there have been talks to even have them make that self-imposed deadline.

Sure the decisions are ultimately above Few and Roth but lets not kid ourselves in thinking that Coach Few and Roth have not been lobbying for this or whatever other conference options there was. I'm sure there are boosters and other folks trying to help influence this decision. If Few and Roth did not have some idea that they would have the backing of the president and whoever makes this decision I don't think they would be so vocal during all this.

I was not originally for this but the potential is far better in the MWC than it is in the WCC. People keep grasping at straws talking about how some of the WCC teams are getting better... It's not enough for what this programs aspires for. Change is scary I get it but we need to move on from this conference.

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 03:54 PM
Well, I never made a claim that was dishonest....I identified my source and cautioned that the information was hardly more than gossip ..

And the only reason I even made the post was that what I had been told was the exact opposite of what Joe Dawg had posted as a fact.... and that it was "interesting" .......that there were diametrically opposed rumors....

I realize that some of you give little credit to the Mailroom, but my experience is that the secretaries are the ones that type up the meeting agenda.... that attend the meetings...take the notes....identify the points of agreement and action ...circulate that info to the responsible individuals for review...and prepare the official memo....sooooo.......they know what is going on...

Now this was a phone conversation about another matter and in closing, I just asked if she had heard anything about joining the MWC...and she told me it was not going to happen....no compelling reason to change conferences....I did not ask anymore questions and that was the end of our conversation....

Perhaps she had been to a preliminary meeting for a small group..... or simply overheard someone involved express a personal opinion...

But I will offer a opinion....I suspect she was right......we shall see..

former1dog
03-29-2018, 05:21 PM
Well, I never made a claim that was dishonest....I identified my source and cautioned that the information was hardly more than gossip ..

I apologize if you think I called you out. I understood your claim from the start and was not under the impression that it was less than credible.

Zagdawg
03-29-2018, 05:33 PM
If Gonzaga has enlisted the services of a consultant that specializes in this type of move -- it is good to see that they have tapped into the experience to make the most informed decision.

maynard g krebs
03-29-2018, 05:33 PM
If you can convince the mid-west schools like Creighton, Butler, and Wichita St., and perhaps a Texas school or two, to go with the mountain west teams and west coast teams (minus SJSU, and adding GCU), I don't see how the PAC12 beats that. I just see the Big East making less and less sense.

Nebraska and Kansas, sure, but Indiana? Looked at a map lately? I'm on your side of this argument in general, but Butler, no.

former1dog
03-29-2018, 05:33 PM
CDC probably does have good sources close to the organization but I have a hard time believing that barely any talks have transpired with this whole thing. For them to say they are looking to hopefully make a decision soon means there have been talks to even have them make that self-imposed deadline.

Here's the deal. The essence of what CDC has laid out very clearly and what I have been hinting at doesn't really require a source because it lies in understanding how a decision of this magnitude is going to be made at Gonzaga. I've had first had experience with that process and CDC is 100% correct.

It really doesn't bother me if you don't want to believe the logic behind his posts or my reassurance, but if you don't you're likely in for a near term disappointment. That is, barring some sort of emergency action.

One final point, I think the quote from Mike Roth was their wasn't a timetable for the decision. Pointing that out for the sake of accuracy.

maynard g krebs
03-29-2018, 05:35 PM
Because the Big East is like the WCC in its mindset, but with bigger basketball budgets. I really think an AAC-MWC merger of sorts is coming down the road. A new national conference with the remnants of those two conferences and possibly the leftovers from the Big 12 (which will eventually fall apart when UT/OU/OSU/TTU leave). Maybe something like this:

East
Cincinnati
Memphis
West Virginia
UConn
Temple
South Florida
UCF
Iowa St

Central
Colorado St
New Mexico
Houston
TCU
Baylor
Wichita St
Kansas
Kansas St

West
BYU
Utah St
Boise St
Gonzaga
Fresno St
San Diego St
UNLV
Nevada

24 Team super conference divided into 3 8 team divisions that play home and homes annually while sprinkling in 6 games against the other divisions. Idk if it would work like this, just obviously completely off the cuff.

One obvious problem: a conference gets one auto bid, regardless of whether it has 8 teams or 24.

soccerdud
03-29-2018, 06:03 PM
One obvious problem: a conference gets one auto bid, regardless of whether it has 8 teams or 24.

with a conference lineup like that, it wouldn't be a problem. autobid establishes a minimum. that conference includes at least 10 teams in the NCAA tournament this year, and at least 5 schools that would have been at-large teams this season, even though they play in much weaker conferences overall (GU, nevada, wichita, houston, cinci). p5 conferences aren't thinking about splitting up to get more autobids-- the same concept would apply here.

maynard g krebs
03-29-2018, 06:24 PM
with a conference lineup like that, it wouldn't be a problem. autobid establishes a minimum. that conference includes at least 10 teams in the NCAA tournament this year, and at least 5 schools that would have been at-large teams this season, even though they play in much weaker conferences overall (GU, nevada, wichita, houston, cinci). p5 conferences aren't thinking about splitting up to get more autobids-- the same concept would apply here.

Yeah, I hadn't looked at his list when I posted. Didn't realize he had the Big 12 splitting up, or AAC etc. Looking at the team list, doesn't seem realistic to me, as FB schools need to maintain FB conference integrity.

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 06:45 PM
I apologize if you think I called you out. I understood your claim from the start and was not under the impression that it was less than credible.

No problem, I trust you to be honest and well intention...but there are a few in here who are not.... and will straw dog (misrepresent ) any post they don't agree with...

former1dog
03-29-2018, 07:11 PM
No problem, I trust you to be honest and well intention...but there are a few in here who are not.... and will straw dog (misrepresent ) any post they don't agree with...


Well, it took removal of the OCC and a few years but we're damn near chummy these days Bart. Glad you could overlook some of my transgressions.

bartruff1
03-29-2018, 07:53 PM
Well, it took removal of the OCC and a few years but we're damn near chummy these days Bart. Glad you could overlook some of my transgressions.

As well....but what is hard to believe is that one of those boys in in the 5th grade !!....it is good that the Crosby is gone, the opportunity for respectful and productive political dialog is over in this Country .

former1dog
03-29-2018, 08:04 PM
As well....but what is hard to believe is that one of those boys in in the 5th grade !!....it is good that the Crosby is gone, the opportunity for respectful and productive political dialog is over in this Country .

My boys are in the 6th, 5th and 3rd. You'll be happy to hear the youngest is playing in our local PGA jr league, besides playing club hoops. Our middle boy has aspirations of earning a soccer scholarship to Gonzaga. They're all good students. Yes, I do like to brag on my boys! :D



https://preview.ibb.co/gsbSX7/IMG_0277.jpg (https://ibb.co/hPC1s7)

SWZag
03-29-2018, 09:07 PM
Oh and btw, Utah State isnt exactly Pepperdine or Loyola Marymount when it comes to basketball. Stew Morrill had the Aggies in Zag territory for awhile there, one of the highest winning percentages in the country. Their student section is absolutely fabulous, one of the toughest environments to play in the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH65jS-EseQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARpzavb7PQk

Sleeping Giant is more like it.

I wonder then why they only average filling 66.9% of the arena for home games. They average 6,872 in attendance with a capacity of 10,270. The school has 27,676 students and they can only average 6,872 (24.8%)? That's almost identical to LMU in terms of attendance vs. school size (LMU is 24.5%).

They may have a good student section, but what about the rest of the crowd? I haven't been to one of their games, so looking for insight.

Maybe the students and fans are more interested in football. They averaged 20,108 with a capacity of 25,513 (78.8%) and attendance to school size ratio (72.7%).

SWZag
03-29-2018, 09:09 PM
Because the Big East is like the WCC in its mindset, but with bigger basketball budgets. I really think an AAC-MWC merger of sorts is coming down the road. A new national conference with the remnants of those two conferences and possibly the leftovers from the Big 12 (which will eventually fall apart when UT/OU/OSU/TTU leave). Maybe something like this:

East
Cincinnati
Memphis
West Virginia
UConn
Temple
South Florida
UCF
Iowa St

Central
Colorado St
New Mexico
Houston
TCU
Baylor
Wichita St
Kansas
Kansas St

West
BYU
Utah St
Boise St
Gonzaga
Fresno St
San Diego St
UNLV
Nevada

24 Team super conference divided into 3 8 team divisions that play home and homes annually while sprinkling in 6 games against the other divisions. Idk if it would work like this, just obviously completely off the cuff.

What would be the purpose? Why not have three distinct leagues?

JoeDawg
03-29-2018, 09:58 PM
Joe,

I don't mean to be a bully but this is a REALLY incredible claim. I want to give you one more opportunity to clarify this post or walk it back.

What would you like me to clarify? I thought my post was pretty clear. I understand you questioning what I said but I'm pretty sure you understand that I can't go into any detail. You are condescending and have no clue what is really going on.

AztecDen
03-29-2018, 10:11 PM
What would be the purpose? Why not have three distinct leagues?

Why even talk about this? This ain't going to happen in the next decade and will likely never be a viable option. I mean it is nice to dream but one has to understand reality. Right now the reality is that Gonzaga stays in the WCC or moves to the MWC.

former1dog
03-29-2018, 10:21 PM
What would you like me to clarify? I thought my post was pretty clear. I understand you questioning what I said but I'm pretty sure you understand that I can't go into any detail. You are condescending and have no clue what is really going on.


Unfortunately I know you’re not telling the truth. Bad way to start your posting career on GUBoards.

In my experience when someone makes a claim, such as you have, which as of this morning is 100% false and they have just very recently joined the board I and most of the long time members of this community consider them to be a troll.

So, at this point, I’ll disengage and encourage others to do the same.

JoeDawg
03-29-2018, 11:23 PM
Unfortunately I know you’re not telling the truth. Bad way to start your posting career on GUBoards.

In my experience when someone makes a claim, such as you have, which as of this morning is 100% false and they have just very recently joined the board I and most of the long time members of this community consider them to be a troll.

So, at this point, I’ll disengage and encourage others to do the same.

The next steps are a formality and the decision will be announced next week. I'm done posting on this subject. Not looking to get into a back and forth with a message board veteran. I'm clearly way out of my league.

thebigsmoove
03-30-2018, 06:01 AM
What would be the purpose? Why not have three distinct leagues?

The purpose would be strength in numbers. The health of a large conference merging the best of 3 existing weaker conferences would be to stay relevant when the Power conference coalesce into bigger more powerful leagues. Its the way most analysts see college sports moving.

thebigsmoove
03-30-2018, 06:06 AM
I wonder then why they only average filling 66.9% of the arena for home games. They average 6,872 in attendance with a capacity of 10,270. The school has 27,676 students and they can only average 6,872 (24.8%)? That's almost identical to LMU in terms of attendance vs. school size (LMU is 24.5%).

They may have a good student section, but what about the rest of the crowd? I haven't been to one of their games, so looking for insight.

Maybe the students and fans are more interested in football. They averaged 20,108 with a capacity of 25,513 (78.8%) and attendance to school size ratio (72.7%).

Its been a rough few years for them since Stew led the program, they are in need of a young energizing coach to reboot the program, maybe Craig Smith will be that guy. I dont get into all these silly percentages, Utah State doubles up LMUs attendance even in a down year thats the real story.

thebigsmoove
03-30-2018, 06:10 AM
Unfortunately I know you’re not telling the truth. Bad way to start your posting career on GUBoards.

In my experience when someone makes a claim, such as you have, which as of this morning is 100% false and they have just very recently joined the board I and most of the long time members of this community consider them to be a troll.

So, at this point, I’ll disengage and encourage others to do the same.

I actually think Joe is right, the formalities are being worked out as we speak. I think the use of the word "done" is hyperbolic, but otherwise, I think we are at a point where im about 80% sure this will happen. Ive heard enough from people in the know that i believe this is getting close and will likely be announced by thursday or friday this coming week.

lobo
03-30-2018, 07:43 AM
Hello All,

I don't mean to encroach, but I have no idea how anybody would want to stay in the WCC. Especially if I was Gonzaga! Really, you're Gonzaga! You're the premiere basketball program in the west and you'd rather stay there? Sure, you'd take a few more losses, but from a fans perspective it would be so much more fun.

The MWC rivals the PAC in most years, sometimes better, sometimes worse. With Gonzaga, there is no question which is the better basketball league. Your recruiting would be improved. UNLV consistently gets one and done type players, no matter their current status. It's UNLV. SDSU and "The Show" are super fun to play against. You'll have to spot UNM 10 points a game just for walking into "The Pit". Everybody loses to AFA once in a while with that Princeton offense and overacheiving cadets they have. Good luck catching your breath in Wyoming, much less just getting there (which is part of the fun). Nevada is no joke, which everyone is well aware of now. Utah State and "The Spectrum" are adjusting still, but also competetive. Fresno, has had success and will always be competitive. Colorado State is competetive some years. And than there's Boise, who I compare you most to. They came as national darlings, sustained success, but... they take losses in conference. They have parlayed that into success for their other programs. Boise basketball was not that good until it came to the MWC. Now, they compete for a league titles and tournament bids deep into February.

If Gonzaga wants to grow their brand this is the place. ESPN wants nothing to do with the WCC. They are forcing this change. There is not one other school in that conference that draws ratings for ESPN besides Gonzaga. Don't let BYU fool you, they have fallen into obscurity. All of the money in the world couldn't buy them success. BYU came into your league with one foot out the door. The WCC wasn't even thier first choice, the WAC was, until the MWC blew that up. St. Mary's loses their coach and they are irrelevant.

SWZag
03-30-2018, 07:55 AM
Its been a rough few years for them since Stew led the program, they are in need of a young energizing coach to reboot the program, maybe Craig Smith will be that guy. I dont get into all these silly percentages, Utah State doubles up LMUs attendance even in a down year thats the real story.

You can call them silly percentages and numbers, but they're the only facts anybody has right now.

The silly percentage gives an indication that Utah State and LMU have about the same interest in basketball (people attending games) when compared to the size of the school. And neither can even come close to comparing with GU. So when someone says that a school is really into basketball, what does that really mean? Putting it into numbers can help define what that means. And by doing that, Utah State is one of the worst in the MWC in terms of interest in basketball, football at the school garners far more interest. Only San Jose State and Boise State have less interest in basketball.

* Interest in basketball is calculated by the number of attendees divided by the school enrollment. It's not scientific, but my attempt to put numbers (facts) into a thread where there are very little facts. Higher enrollment should produce higher attendance for both students, alumni and general fans. Smaller schools may have lower raw attendance figures, but when compared to the size of school, they could show higher interest in basketball. For an extreme example (but in line percentagewise with SJSU), a school with little basketball interest: 50,000 students, 2,500 average attendance (5%). Example of high basketball interest, using GU, 7,421 students and average attendance of 6,000 (would be higher if capacity allowed) (80.9%). Interest in basketball is a concern, especially when football is king.

There may be a better measure and would love to hear it. But the need for some sort of factual data in this thread (and all similar threads) is high.