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View Full Version : Eye on College B-Ball Podcast: NCAA Tourney Edition (don't feel sorry for SMC)



CDC84
03-11-2018, 10:37 PM
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/cbssportscom-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast

The non-iTunes version.

kdaleb
03-11-2018, 10:46 PM
Is there a way to imbed a tweet on this board? Parrish tweeted out an outline of the podcast. That entire 12:10-29:33 segment revolves around St Mary's active attempts to avoid tough out of conference games.



Gary Parrish

Verified account

@GaryParrishCBS
44m44 minutes ago
More
Here’s a @SoundCloud link to the #EyeOnCBB podcast.

OPEN: The selection committee did a nice job.

12:10: Don’t feel sorry for Saint Mary’s.

29:33: Both Hurley brothers made it!

33:52: Midwest

40:56: East

49:14: South

1:04:12: West

LISTEN:

adoptedzag
03-11-2018, 10:55 PM
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/cbssportscom-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast/e/52473188

The non-iTunes version.

Just finished listening to it (the parts that I cared about, anyway). They spend almost half an hour bagging on SMC. Then I go to SMC's board and see that they pulled out of the Diamondhead classic. What the (*&^ are they thinking in Moraga?!

CDC84
03-11-2018, 11:11 PM
Who is in the Diamondhead Classic next year? That's a tournament where the organizers pay for team expenses.

Is Randy trying to prove some point? I used to think it was a Stu Morrill kind of thing where "we won't play at your place if you don't play at ours." But as we have seen SMC turned down home and homes against Nevada and Rhode Island. Heck, teams they can beat. Are they looking for home and homes against Duke, Purdue, Texas Tech, Tennessee and Arizona?? It's not going to happen.

adoptedzag
03-11-2018, 11:53 PM
Who is in the Diamondhead Classic next year? That's a tournament where the organizers pay for team expenses.

Is Randy trying to prove some point? I used to think it was a Stu Morrill kind of thing where "we won't play at your place if you don't play at ours." But as we have seen SMC turned down home and homes against Nevada and Rhode Island. Heck, teams they can beat. Are they looking for home and homes against Duke, Purdue, Texas Tech, Tennessee and Arizona?? It's not going to happen.

It's a solid field, reminds me of the events like the Alaska tournament that we used to go to:
http://espnevents.com/diamond-head-classic/press/bucknell-joins-2018-hawaiian-airlines-diamond-head-classic-field/


The 10th annual Hawaiian Airlines Diamond Head Classic now features Bucknell (Patriot League), Charlotte (Conference USA), Colorado (Pac-12), Indiana State (Missouri Valley), Rhode Island (A-10), TCU (Big 12), UNLV (Mountain West) and tournament host school Hawai’i (Big West).

CDC84
03-12-2018, 12:02 AM
BTW - Parrish picked the Zags to go to the final four. Not a very confident pick, though.

ZagNative
03-12-2018, 12:19 AM
That was a highly entertaining podcast. Thanks for posting.

CDC84
03-12-2018, 12:20 AM
Gary is consistently wrong about one thing though. Joe Rahon was the 2nd best player on SMC's team last year. I don't know why he keeps forgetting him. He was brilliant in the Arizona loss. He is the best guy to play the pick and roll stuff they run with Landale because unlike Naar, Joe is a big, strong and powerful guard who can finish near the rim. Gonzaga exploited the lack of Rahon's presence in their dominant win at Saint Mary's. SMC returned an inferior team. Still doesn't excuse them for not scheduling because they were still a NCAA tourney quality team.

CDC84
03-12-2018, 01:39 AM
The 10th annual Hawaiian Airlines Diamond Head Classic now features Bucknell (Patriot League), Charlotte (Conference USA), Colorado (Pac-12), Indiana State (Missouri Valley), Rhode Island (A-10), TCU (Big 12), UNLV (Mountain West) and tournament host school Hawai’i (Big West).

I could see Randy turning this down. Only 2 BCS teams, and only one of them was a tourney team, and TCU is not a traditional basketball power. Not saying it's the right thing to do.

The only thing that I will say about SMC is that they won 84.8% of their games this season. TSN has definitive proof over the past 20 seasons that teams with a winning % of .801% or better perform superbly in the NCAA tournament. Especially the non-BCS teams. In other words, you cannot fake 28 wins, even if your schedule stinks.

That's the thing that is so frustrating about this. If SMC could beat New Mexico State at McKeon, who is being picked by Parrish to make the sweet 16, they could have surely beaten Rhode Island in Moraga. Rhode Island was willing to play in Moraga THIS season. That win alone would've put them in.

TacomaZAG
03-12-2018, 06:42 AM
Who is in the Diamondhead Classic next year? That's a tournament where the organizers pay for team expenses.

Is Randy trying to prove some point? I used to think it was a Stu Morrill kind of thing where "we won't play at your place if you don't play at ours." But as we have seen SMC turned down home and homes against Nevada and Rhode Island. Heck, teams they can beat. Are they looking for home and homes against Duke, Purdue, Texas Tech, Tennessee and Arizona?? It's not going to happen.

It might happen....................eventually.

Looking at the ZAGS history on this issue, they FINALLY got a home/home with UNC after decades of going on the road without a return trip scheduled, after 20+ years of consecutive NCAA Tourney appearances, 20+ straight WCC conference finals, and a couple of home/home games with other big name programs. The only actual home/home games with the "big boys" that I can remember are the Michigan State visit to the Kennel a few years ago, due to the two coaches being friends and Coaches vs. Cancer participants, and Arizona (as I recall). Calipari sat in a stool in the Kennel next to Few and said Kentucky would never come to the Kennel. But.........they came to the Spokane Arena, so I guess that could be termed a home/close to home. That's two or three home/home games after 20+ years of unparalleled success.

The point is that SMC is going to have to go on the road for many years, and do pretty well at it, to even have a chance for a home/home with any of the "big boys". And, realistically, their only chance is a home/close to home until they replace that "band box" with a real arena. Plus, they need to consistently get into the NCAA Tourney in order to attract anyone to even listen. SMC is at the beginning of a 20+ year journey to national relevance, not in the middle or at the end of it. Until they realize that and take the appropriate steps, nothing will change, and it shouldn't.

Go ZAGS

BavarianZag
03-12-2018, 07:17 AM
The point is that SMC is going to have to go on the road for many years, and do pretty well at it, to even have a chance for a home/home with any of the "big boys". And, realistically, their only chance is a home/close to home until they replace that "band box" with a real arena. Plus, they need to consistently get into the NCAA Tourney in order to attract anyone to even listen. SMC is at the beginning of a 20+ year journey to national relevance, not in the middle or at the end of it. Until they realize that and take the appropriate steps, nothing will change, and it shouldn't.

Go ZAGS

^^^ this x100

Too many of us on this board are too apologetic of SMC, IMHO. Several have expressed that they're just like we were at the beginning of our run and we should appreciate them for where they are. The one glaring (and defining) difference is that we stood by the mantra of playing anyone "any where and any time". That IS the Zag brand. That IS the essence of what many of us long time fans appreciate most about the Zag program. The little engine that could....and did. SMC is not that and will likely never be that. It is clear that they took a different path. Their path doesn't deserve this basketball fan's respect (at least at this point in time). I am happy they were left out- not because I think the kids don't deserve it- because I don't think their program earned it.

DixieZag
03-12-2018, 07:36 AM
SMC was the third team out. It makes me wonder if they were "in" even had they beaten BYU.

That BYU loss HAD to hurt, even if they weren't in anyway.

Still, one looks at Oklahoma being "in" and Syracuse, and it's hard to make a case for them, too.

At this point, after this many lessons in the same scenario, it's hard not to think that Randy likes his $600,000 year and low stress lifestyle and isn't willing to really put it at risk. He can coach there the rest of his life, make the tourney every 3-4 years and be quite happy.

I'm sure he's a competitor and that's not quite it, but it appears to be it.

TacomaZAG
03-12-2018, 07:46 AM
SMC was the third team out. It makes me wonder if they were "in" even had they beaten BYU.

That BYU loss HAD to hurt, even if they weren't in anyway.

Still, one looks at Oklahoma being "in" and Syracuse, and it's hard to make a case for them, too.

At this point, after this many lessons in the same scenario, it's hard not to think that Randy likes his $600,000 year and low stress lifestyle and isn't willing to really put it at risk. He can coach there the rest of his life, make the tourney every 3-4 years and be quite happy.

I'm sure he's a competitor and that's not quite it, but it appears to be it.

Good call Dix...............

IMHO, OK got in based on a single player rep and the Orange got in due to program reputation. Neither of those teams deserved to be in over USC. No idea how ASU got in over USC, especially since they are both Pac-12 schools.

While the BYU loss hurt SMC, I think what really kept them out was the "hairball" they coughed up against San Fran. With their horrible OOC schedule, even one loss to anyone in the WCC not named BYU or GU is the "kiss of death" for their NCAA Tourney hopes.

A bad conference loss for GU hurts their seeding, while a bad conference loss for SMC slams the door, barring their entrance into the Dance.

Go ZAGS

strikenowhere
03-12-2018, 07:53 AM
To me, the craziest thing is that a 15 loss???? Alabama team got in. 15 losses is ridiculous no matter how you swing it. Its all well and good that they had a lot of Q1 games, but when you lose that many games and still get in what does that say about how little losses count? Does that mean that a sub-.500 team, as long as they cobbled together enough Q1 wins, could get in the tournament? Its just ridiculous. Plus, I've never seen so many double-digit loss teams in the tournament in general....how does North Carolina get a 2-seed with 10 losses?

hooter73
03-12-2018, 08:01 AM
For years GU has wanted SMC to do well because it would help us. We are finally at the point where we are over it, they are never going to change and the "rivalry" was more in peoples minds. Look at the record of how many times SMC has actually won against GU. Winning one game out of ten does not exemplify a rivalry to me. SMC has consistently shown that they do not want to really improve their program, so screw it, lets go to our new conference where programs will care and try.

FuManShoes
03-12-2018, 08:03 AM
While I should never display empathy toward a Gael, I agree with Parish and Norlander that ultimately Randy Bennett's chicken-#### scheduling philosophy just hurts his own guys and wastes their talent. If I was a recruit being sold on St. Mary's I'd wonder why despite many 28+ win seasons the team doesn't seem to get into the Dance consistently or play at many marquee programs. Shame on Randy and perhaps, maybe, shame on his players for not demanding better from their coach and AD.

TravelinZag
03-12-2018, 08:18 AM
Just the facts: what are the records for NCAA: worst win-loss record for team given a bid, and best win-loss record for a team denied a bid?

Zagceo
03-12-2018, 08:22 AM
SMC was the third team out. It makes me wonder if they were "in" even had they beaten BYU.

That BYU loss HAD to hurt, even if they weren't in anyway.

Still, one looks at Oklahoma being "in" and Syracuse, and it's hard to make a case for them, too.

At this point, after this many lessons in the same scenario, it's hard not to think that Randy likes his $600,000 year and low stress lifestyle and isn't willing to really put it at risk. He can coach there the rest of his life, make the tourney every 3-4 years and be quite happy.

I'm sure he's a competitor and that's not quite it, but it appears to be it.

I do recall Roth saying Mark Few was more concerned about Gonzaga building a new Arena than

increasing his salary....Randy not so much.

TexasZagFan
03-12-2018, 08:25 AM
Who is in the Diamondhead Classic next year? That's a tournament where the organizers pay for team expenses.

Is Randy trying to prove some point? I used to think it was a Stu Morrill kind of thing where "we won't play at your place if you don't play at ours." But as we have seen SMC turned down home and homes against Nevada and Rhode Island. Heck, teams they can beat. Are they looking for home and homes against Duke, Purdue, Texas Tech, Tennessee and Arizona?? It's not going to happen.

That attitude shown by Bennett and Morrill is simply arrogant. Not even the great Don Haskins ever scheduled like that. He agreed, albeit reluctantly, to a 2 for 1 with Georgetown. Just like everyone else, he had a couple of cupcakes in preseason, because the WAC was a tough league back then.

Birddog
03-12-2018, 08:28 AM
Wow, they brutalized SMC and Bennett. After listening the to the podcast it's apparent that Bennett deserves all the crap he's getting. They characterized the WCC as Gonzaga always very good, SMC good, BYU pretty good most of the time and the rest of the league as garbage. I'd guess that is a fairly wide perception.

I think the schadenfreude is unbecoming but the criticism of Bennett is well deserved.

Hoopaholic
03-12-2018, 08:41 AM
Wow, they brutalized SMC and Bennett. After listening the to the podcast it's apparent that Bennett deserves all the crap he's getting. They characterized the WCC as Gonzaga always very good, SMC good, BYU pretty good most of the time and the rest of the league as garbage. I'd guess that is a fairly wide perception.

I think the schadenfreude is unbecoming but the criticism of Bennett is well deserved.

its a perception that I believe is warranted

CDC84
03-12-2018, 08:59 AM
A reminder......what Norlander and Parrish are not saying is that SMC must pack their bags and go play at Kansas and Kentucky with no return game. They don't need to do it like the Zags used to do it. What really helped the Zags were their home and home games with programs like St. Joe's when they had Jameer Nelson and Co. All Saint Mary's needs to do to get in is to play NCAA tourney teams like Creighton, Nevada and Rhode Island who are at their level. Especially teams like Nevada and URI who are in the same position the Gaels are in. URI reached out to the Gaels because they saw them as a home and home opponent that could really help their resume. Both teams are non-BCS, both teams are good. You have to play that game.

FuManShoes
03-12-2018, 09:02 AM
Since 2004-05, SMC has won at least 25 games 10 times and made the Dance just 6 times. With W-L records like that, there's literally no excuse for being left out other than Bennett and his enabling AD haven't tried to challenge themselves in the non-conference. SMC have been the definition of "takers," relying on a boost from playing and occasionally beating GU and getting a cut of money earned through GU's Tourney appearances and wins even as SMC has failed to invest in its own program or challenged itself. And you wonder why GU is exploring other conferences ...

GrizZAG
03-12-2018, 09:18 AM
What is sad is arguably the top big man in CBB isn't playing. Jock is amazing and I hope at least the scouts reward him. Also, we are slamming Bennett pretty hard here and by other's as well. Is it possible it's the AD and the school that is curtailing expenses and Randy is constrained by a budget situation? He's still a great coach as we have seen over the years. I liked this year's SMC team. No jerks, good solid basketball.

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-12-2018, 09:23 AM
SMC bought out of the return game they would have had with Nevada this year too?

You donít buy out of a game because of budget situations, you buy out because you are chicken sh$t to play an actual away game against good competition.

Mind blowing

229SintoZag
03-12-2018, 10:26 AM
It might happen....................eventually.

Looking at the ZAGS history on this issue, they FINALLY got a home/home with UNC after decades of going on the road without a return trip scheduled, after 20+ years of consecutive NCAA Tourney appearances, 20+ straight WCC conference finals, and a couple of home/home games with other big name programs. The only actual home/home games with the "big boys" that I can remember are the Michigan State visit to the Kennel a few years ago, due to the two coaches being friends and Coaches vs. Cancer participants, and Arizona (as I recall). Calipari sat in a stool in the Kennel next to Few and said Kentucky would never come to the Kennel. But.........they came to the Spokane Arena, so I guess that could be termed a home/close to home. That's two or three home/home games after 20+ years of unparalleled success.

The point is that SMC is going to have to go on the road for many years, and do pretty well at it, to even have a chance for a home/home with any of the "big boys". And, realistically, their only chance is a home/close to home until they replace that "band box" with a real arena. Plus, they need to consistently get into the NCAA Tourney in order to attract anyone to even listen. SMC is at the beginning of a 20+ year journey to national relevance, not in the middle or at the end of it. Until they realize that and take the appropriate steps, nothing will change, and it shouldn't.

Go ZAGS

With respect I disagree that the zags are only now getting legit home and home deals.

We had one with not only Arizona and Michigan State. We have also had these deals with UCLA, Virginia, Stanford (when they were playing at an elite level), Notre Dame, and others. And this started as long ago as the Morrison years. We had college game day in the Kennel for Stanford at least ten years ago. Getting legit home and home deals took awhile but it didnít take 20 years.

Coach Crazy
03-12-2018, 10:33 AM
SMC bought out of the return game they would have had with Nevada this year too?

You donít buy out of a game because of budget situations, you buy out because you are chicken sh$t to play an actual away game against good competition.

Mind blowing

I just don't get it. Honestly. I don't get it, either. It's like a bunch of people missed the episode of Mr. Rogers where he talks about consequences.

CDC84
03-12-2018, 10:45 AM
SMC bought out of the return game they would have had with Nevada this year too?

You donít buy out of a game because of budget situations, you buy out because you are chicken sh$t to play an actual away game against good competition.

Mind blowing

Yes, that kind of blows away my theory of the Saint Mary's athletics program having possible financial problems. To be honest Kong-Kool-Aid, I am at the point of grasping at straws with SMC and their non-league scheduling. I just don't get it. Not only the refusals to play Nevada, Rhode Island and Creighton, but also doing a screwy 3 for 1 series with Cal-Berkeley with 3 of the games on the road despite the fact that Cal is a Pac 12 bottom feeder and an inferior program

CDC84
03-12-2018, 10:47 AM
Saint Mary's doesn't need elite home and homes. Just ONE win over Rhode Island at McKeon this year would have gotten them in according to Norlander and Parrish.

TacomaZAG
03-12-2018, 11:12 AM
With respect I disagree that the zags are only now getting legit home and home deals.

We had one with not only Arizona and Michigan State. We have also had these deals with UCLA, Virginia, Stanford (when they were playing at an elite level), Notre Dame, and others. And this started as long ago as the Morrison years. We had college game day in the Kennel for Stanford at least ten years ago. Getting legit home and home deals took awhile but it didn’t take 20 years.

Fair enough, Sinto (I grew up on Augusta, where the Safeway now stands)...........

My point was simply that it takes a long time to do what the ZAGS did, and teams like UNC don't do home/home series until all the next tier teams (like the ones you rightfully mention) have already done them. The exception was Michigan State, and that was due to the personal relationship between Few and Izzo. Maybe it didn't take 20 years, but it sure took 12-15 years.

No time like the present for SMC to start the journey, with teams like Rhode Island, Nevada, etc. as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Go ZAGS

webspinnre
03-12-2018, 11:48 AM
I completely understand the whole scheduling thing, but as a counterpoint, according to analytic rankings, St. Mary's, based on what they actually accomplished, is a better team than Oklahoma and Syracuse, among others. The problem is that the NCAA has stacked the deck by using RPI, which is a garbage system.

scrooner
03-12-2018, 11:51 AM
I completely understand the whole scheduling thing, but as a counterpoint, according to analytic rankings, St. Mary's, based on what they actually accomplished, is a better team than Oklahoma and Syracuse, among others. The problem is that the NCAA has stacked the deck by using RPI, which is a garbage system.

According to my analytic rankings, I deserve a raise. I mean, I haven't done anything to warrant a raise, but I'm, like, really smart.

Zagceo
03-12-2018, 12:05 PM
kinda funny seeing so many people dump on SMC and defend WCC....SMC gets in if they play better NON conference schedule ....16-2 in WCC

16-2 ...but by golly don't blame WCC

TexasZagFan
03-12-2018, 12:09 PM
Saint Mary's doesn't need elite home and homes. Just ONE win over Rhode Island at McKeon this year would have gotten them in according to Norlander and Parrish.

Someone help me out with this: Bennett hates to travel, but many/most of his players come from Australia?

bballbeachbum
03-12-2018, 12:13 PM
glad Bennett's scheduling, and the deserved heat he's taking for it and consequences, isn't a third rail here anymore. as usual, he gave his team one opportunity only to make the tournament: beat Gonzaga, whether regular season or for auto bid, and got punked on both. that coattail approach wore thin years ago and more than that, hasn't been effective


johnmontana if you're out there, hope to see you on the game thread

bballbeachbum
03-12-2018, 12:19 PM
kinda funny seeing so many people dump on SMC and defend WCC....SMC gets in if they play better NON conference schedule ....16-2 in WCC

16-2 ...but by golly don't blame WCC

I hear your point, but I won't blame the WCC for Bennett's actions. The reality of getting in from this conference is evident, blatant; refusal to acknowledge and adjust the game plan accordingly takes the blame imo

webspinnre
03-12-2018, 12:23 PM
According to my analytic rankings, I deserve a raise. I mean, I haven't done anything to warrant a raise, but I'm, like, really smart.

Kenpom and BPI? Totally the same as your analytics, I'm sure.

Zagceo
03-12-2018, 12:29 PM
I hear your point, but I won't blame the WCC for Bennett's actions. The reality of getting in from this conference is evident, blatant; refusal to acknowledge and adjust the game plan accordingly takes the blame imo

you're in the majority

still funny to me 16-2 in WCC and Randy gets kicked in the sack

good to see Romar will be coaching at Pepperdine next year...MWC rumors must be true for that to happen...lol

bballbeachbum
03-12-2018, 12:35 PM
you're in the majority

still funny to me 16-2 in WCC and Randy gets kicked in the sack

good to see Romar will be coaching at Pepperdine next year...MWC rumors must be true for that to happen...lol

fun take on Romar
not really disagreeing with you btw, just not letting Bennett off the hook even kind of this time

JPtheBeasta
03-12-2018, 01:06 PM
If one Rhode Island would have tipped the scales, and if Bennett can't get home and homes, a good non-conference tournament where they have the chance to beat a couple of middle of the road March tournament teams would seem to be the easiest fix for SMC.

ZagNut08
03-12-2018, 01:11 PM
Pathetic by SMC, and upsetting that it holds back the conference prestige as well.

ZagzKrak
03-12-2018, 01:31 PM
If the story of SMC turning down those 4 games...3 good ones (Nev./URI/GCU) and 1 very good one (Creighton)..is true then I don't feel bad for SMC at all. They have been sent the same message several times now...learn the lesson.

djdallaszag
03-12-2018, 03:03 PM
I wonder if things would be different if the revenue sharing agreement changed to give the earner at least a higher percentage. e.g. earner gets 50% and the rest gets pooled according to the current formula. St. Mary's may see the ROI for hitting the road for a few games before Christmas that way...

scrooner
03-13-2018, 08:03 PM
Kenpom and BPI? Totally the same as your analytics, I'm sure.

Here's KenPom's strength of schedule for at-large teams, with Saint Mary's at the bottom:

Alabama (19-15) 10
Arizona State (20-11) 72
Arkansas (23-11) 21
Auburn (25-7) 55
Butler (20-13) 16
Clemson (23-9) 29
Creighton (21-11) 37
Duke (26-7)# 12
Florida (20-12) 13
Florida State (20-11) 54
Houston (26-7) 86
Kansas State (22-11) 36
Miami (22-9) 50
Michigan State (29-4) 64
Missouri (20-12) 30
Nevada (27-7) 79
North Carolina (25-10) 1
North Carolina State (21-11) 57
Ohio State (24-8) 49
Oklahoma (18-13) 2
Providence (21-13) 19
Purdue (28-6) 44
Rhode Island (25-7) 97
St. Bonaventure (25-7) 98
Seton Hall (21-11) 32
Syracuse (20-13) 43
Tennessee (25-8) 4
Texas (19-14) 3
Texas A&M (20-12) 7
Texas Tech (24-9) 34
TCU (21-11) 26
UCLA (21-11) 59
Virginia Tech (21-11) 51
West Virginia (24-10) 17
Wichita State (25-7) 74
Xavier (28-5) 31

Saint Mary's 174

TexasZagFan
03-13-2018, 08:47 PM
Hey sports fans, there's an obvious lesson to be learned here: when the Chairman of the Selection Committee calls to discuss a one and one game with you, which involves the school where he's the AD, you effusively say thank you and ask what dates he prefers to play the game.

Sorry for the run on sentence, but just WHO IN HADES does Randy Bennett think he is? Does the AD work for him, or what?

ZagDad84
03-13-2018, 09:08 PM
According to the announcers on the St. Mary's broadcast tonight, they spoke at length with RB about turning down home and home games with URI and Creighton and he emphatically denied that he turned down those games.

Just food for thought.

ZagDad

TexasZagFan
03-13-2018, 09:15 PM
According to the announcers on the St. Mary's broadcast tonight, they spoke at length with RB about turning down home and home games with URI and Creighton and he emphatically denied that he turned down those games.

Just food for thought.

ZagDad

Of course he did...who you gonna believe?

Parsing his words, he probably told the new AD to turn down those games. Bennett's a weasel.