PDA

View Full Version : Feels like the ceiling has risen



Malastein
03-07-2018, 01:16 AM
In the context of the program, this past season was a year in which the program almost reached the ultimate goal of any serious D1 basketball program in falling in the final moments to a gritty North Carolina team. The season opened up with much lower expectations as 4 of the 8 main rotation players either graduated or left school early/prematurely. There was a lot of hope and optimism with the incoming talent, but the early results showed that the young guys weren't at all ready to step in and execute at a high level within the Gonzaga system. They often missed assignments on defense, and they frequently tried to force things on offense. The lack of depth showed in the bigger games of the non conference schedule.

Things may have been different early on if the core returning 4 had been more vocal on court leaders, but this core might be as quiet as any group in the history of the program. Initially, Kispert was able to stand out as a well rounded, intelligent player who has a knack for being in productive places on the floor. However, his early injury issues led him to losing confidence in the game, or perhaps his injury was more significant than initially reported. He wasn't the same player when he came back, but he has certainly been rounding into form even if his shot hasn't been falling as much as it looks like it should. Regardless, he looks ready to take over Silas Melson's starting position with his well rounded game.

Norvell and Rui both showed flashes of big futures early, but each also had major tendencies to play outside of the flow of the offense. Neither really fit into the system defensively at all early on. The St. Mary's loss in Spokane seemed like a natural turning point where these guys realized that they needed to buy in and show greater attention to detail and exert much more effort on the defensive side of the glass. Both guys have bought into the system and don't look out of place nearly as much as they did early in the season. If Rui comes back for his junior season, he looks capable of garnering Ammo like recognition if he can figure out how to bring a high level of intensity consistently like we've seen JW3 maintain for the year.

This team is short a point guard and short a center, but they look like they are able to make a deep run as they now have 7 guys that can be confidently placed into the rotation and make plays for each other. What's amazing is how different this group of Zags is from the last year's group. This year's team is entirely perimeter oriented anLd plays a free flowing system reminiscent of the Golden State Warriors, while last year's team was much more of a Shaq and Kobe style Lakers team with a lot of offense flowing through two capable passing bigs in Karnowski and Collins. The great thing is that Coach Few and staff have done a truly masterful job in switching to the skill set of this roster and completely rebuilding it.

The amazing thing about the Gonzaga program is that it had sustained success long enough to now be the premier program on the West Coast. This team has been able to develop enough players to reach the NBA or oversea professional leagues that high level talent is more attracted to this program. They are now regularly getting guys with the potential to go as high as late lottery to second round with an amazing amount of frequency. They aren't Duke, North Carolina, or Kentucky, but the benefit of that is that they often have a core group of veterans who are more ready to contribute any which way Coach Few demands. This is a team that looks only to improve from the inevitable changes coming to the one and done system in place now. The lack of any amount of scandal with corruption added to the long term success of the program, and I think that this team will only continue to improve. Especially if any of the current or incoming player can find another level. Right now it's a joy to watch Killian Tillie consistently make big shots. Let's hope he is able to propel himself up the draft charts with an amazing run in March. This team can beat any in the country right now. Let's hope they can pull of another year of magic.

RenoZag
03-07-2018, 06:34 AM
Nicely done overview, Mal.

Reborn
03-07-2018, 07:06 AM
Fantastic read, Mal. Thanks. I'm ready to go to work now with a smile on my face. Thanks.

Go Zags!!!

Hoopaholic
03-07-2018, 07:07 AM
Good read until the underhanded slap "this team is short a point guard and short a center"

Statistically J3 has done more than Shem did last.....more points per game(13.5 to 12.2) more rebounds per game (8.3 to 5.8) slightly less assists ( 1.6 to Shem 1.9) more blocked shots ( 1.2 to .9) turnovers about same ( 2.1 to Shem 1.8) shooting percent about even ( 57 to 58%) and free throws about same (. 56-59%)

So we do have a center who is statistically better in many categories for this years team

No point guard statement is just as bad imo
Minutes played by Perkins to goss are near identical. 32.6 to goss 32.7
Ppg. Perkins 12.4 goss 16.8
Rebounds. Perkins 3.1 to goss 6.0
Assist Perkins 5.4 to goss 4.7
Steals. Perkins 1.2. Goss 1.7
Turnovers. Perkins 2.1. Goss 2.2
Shooting. Perkins 44%. Goss 49%
3 point shooting. Perkins 41%. Goss. 37%

Our point guard is distributing more this year with less turnovers over last years team. For me that is the primary purpose of a point guard especially when you have 7 players being able to put up 20 for a game
We are averaging more points this year over last years team

I just don't get the blinder optics when some claim we don't have a point guard or a center vast majority of teams nationwide would die for either lt alone both

Saxon_zag
03-07-2018, 07:15 AM
Good read until the underhanded slap "this team is short a point guard and short a center"

Statistically J3 has done more than Shem did last.....more points per game(13.5 to 12.2) more rebounds per game (8.3 to 5.8) slightly less assists ( 1.6 to Shem 1.9) more blocked shots ( 1.2 to .9) turnovers about same ( 2.1 to Shem 1.8) shooting percent about even ( 57 to 58%) and free throws about same (. 56-59%)

So we do have a center who is statistically better in many categories for this years team

No point guard statement is just as bad imo
Minutes played by Perkins to goss are near identical. 32.6 to goss 32.7
Ppg. Perkins 12.4 goss 16.8
Rebounds. Perkins 3.1 to goss 6.0
Assist Perkins 5.4 to goss 4.7
Steals. Perkins 1.2. Goss 1.7
Turnovers. Perkins 2.1. Goss 2.2
Shooting. Perkins 44%. Goss 49%
3 point shooting. Perkins 41%. Goss. 37%

Our point guard is distributing more this year with less turnovers over last years team. For me that is the primary purpose of a point guard especially when you have 7 players being able to put up 20 for a game
We are averaging more points this year over last years team

I just don't get the blinder optics when some claim we don't have a point guard or a center vast majority of teams nationwide would die for either lt alone both

So Josh Perkins is a better point guard than NWG and j3 is a better center than shem ? No. j3 is playing out of position at center is all Mal was really getting at I think

TexasZagFan
03-07-2018, 07:21 AM
So Josh Perkins is a better point guard than NWG and j3 is a better center than shem ? No. j3 is playing out of position at center is all Mal was really getting at I think

I prefer to look at it as last year's team had two point guards on court at the same time, and two centers playing 40 minutes + in Shem and Zach C.

Few's a much better coach than I: my preference would have been to keep Silas in his 6th man role, as he played that role for two years, and was one of the best at that in the country. Instead, he started Silas and usually assigned him to stop the other team's best shooter...good call, the results speak for themselves.

Hoopaholic
03-07-2018, 07:23 AM
So Josh Perkins is a better point guard than NWG and j3 is a better center than shem ? No. j3 is playing out of position at center is all Mal was really getting at I think

Didn't say that

What I am saying is those who claim we don't have a point guard or center is flat out wrong

JPtheBeasta
03-07-2018, 07:29 AM
It seems we don’t have a true backup PG right now. This is common enough in college- but if there is foul trouble, which Perkins has gotten into a few times, it could be the Achilles heel.

Very good OP, btw.

Few said, per last night’s broadcast team, that there came a point recently when he light went on for this group collectively. I think we can all see how much more connected they are on defense of late. There was a play last night where JW3 beat a BYU guard to his spot on the floor and disrupted everything- that’s taking a game plan to heart and knowing how to execute it, in my opinion. This team has been fun to watch lately.

TexasZagFan
03-07-2018, 07:35 AM
Didn't say that

What I am saying is those who claim we don't have a point guard or center is flat out wrong

We had two legit 7 footers playing meaningful minutes at center last year, a rarity for any college team.

I think we're big enough at the 3-4-5 when J3, Rui, and Killian are on the court at the same time. Those three comprise one of the best, most athletic frontcourts in the entire nation.

Zagceo
03-07-2018, 07:36 AM
In the context of the program, this past season was a year in which the program almost reached the ultimate goal of any serious D1 basketball program in falling in the final moments to a gritty North Carolina team. The season opened up with much lower expectations as 4 of the 8 main rotation players either graduated or left school early/prematurely. There was a lot of hope and optimism with the incoming talent, but the early results showed that the young guys weren't at all ready to step in and execute at a high level within the Gonzaga system. They often missed assignments on defense, and they frequently tried to force things on offense. The lack of depth showed in the bigger games of the non conference schedule.

Things may have been different early on if the core returning 4 had been more vocal on court leaders, but this core might be as quiet as any group in the history of the program. Initially, Kispert was able to stand out as a well rounded, intelligent player who has a knack for being in productive places on the floor. However, his early injury issues led him to losing confidence in the game, or perhaps his injury was more significant than initially reported. He wasn't the same player when he came back, but he has certainly been rounding into form even if his shot hasn't been falling as much as it looks like it should. Regardless, he looks ready to take over Silas Melson's starting position with his well rounded game.

Norvell and Rui both showed flashes of big futures early, but each also had major tendencies to play outside of the flow of the offense. Neither really fit into the system defensively at all early on. The St. Mary's loss in Spokane seemed like a natural turning point where these guys realized that they needed to buy in and show greater attention to detail and exert much more effort on the defensive side of the glass. Both guys have bought into the system and don't look out of place nearly as much as they did early in the season. If Rui comes back for his junior season, he looks capable of garnering Ammo like recognition if he can figure out how to bring a high level of intensity consistently like we've seen JW3 maintain for the year.

This team is short a point guard and short a center, but they look like they are able to make a deep run as they now have 7 guys that can be confidently placed into the rotation and make plays for each other. What's amazing is how different this group of Zags is from the last year's group. This year's team is entirely perimeter oriented anLd plays a free flowing system reminiscent of the Golden State Warriors, while last year's team was much more of a Shaq and Kobe style Lakers team with a lot of offense flowing through two capable passing bigs in Karnowski and Collins. The great thing is that Coach Few and staff have done a truly masterful job in switching to the skill set of this roster and completely rebuilding it.

The amazing thing about the Gonzaga program is that it had sustained success long enough to now be the premier program on the West Coast. This team has been able to develop enough players to reach the NBA or oversea professional leagues that high level talent is more attracted to this program. They are now regularly getting guys with the potential to go as high as late lottery to second round with an amazing amount of frequency. They aren't Duke, North Carolina, or Kentucky, but the benefit of that is that they often have a core group of veterans who are more ready to contribute any which way Coach Few demands. This is a team that looks only to improve from the inevitable changes coming to the one and done system in place now. The lack of any amount of scandal with corruption added to the long term success of the program, and I think that this team will only continue to improve. Especially if any of the current or incoming player can find another level. Right now it's a joy to watch Killian Tillie consistently make big shots. Let's hope he is able to propel himself up the draft charts with an amazing run in March. This team can beat any in the country right now. Let's hope they can pull of another year of magic.


Didn't say that

What I am saying is those who claim we don't have a point guard or center is flat out wrong

and OP didn't say this

cggonzaga
03-07-2018, 08:12 AM
Good read until the underhanded slap "this team is short a point guard and short a center"

Statistically J3 has done more than Shem did last.....more points per game(13.5 to 12.2) more rebounds per game (8.3 to 5.8) slightly less assists ( 1.6 to Shem 1.9) more blocked shots ( 1.2 to .9) turnovers about same ( 2.1 to Shem 1.8) shooting percent about even ( 57 to 58%) and free throws about same (. 56-59%)

So we do have a center who is statistically better in many categories for this years team

No point guard statement is just as bad imo
Minutes played by Perkins to goss are near identical. 32.6 to goss 32.7
Ppg. Perkins 12.4 goss 16.8
Rebounds. Perkins 3.1 to goss 6.0
Assist Perkins 5.4 to goss 4.7
Steals. Perkins 1.2. Goss 1.7
Turnovers. Perkins 2.1. Goss 2.2
Shooting. Perkins 44%. Goss 49%
3 point shooting. Perkins 41%. Goss. 37%

Our point guard is distributing more this year with less turnovers over last years team. For me that is the primary purpose of a point guard especially when you have 7 players being able to put up 20 for a game
We are averaging more points this year over last years team

I just don't get the blinder optics when some claim we don't have a point guard or a center vast majority of teams nationwide would die for either lt alone both

Thank you. Great OP until this. No matter he was first team all conference. He’s just a polarizing figure for reasons beyond me.

Not seeing the difference in statements zagceo.

Zagceo
03-07-2018, 09:05 AM
Thank you. Great OP until this. No matter he was first team all conference. He’s just a polarizing figure for reasons beyond me.

Not seeing the difference in statements zagceo.

Guess I could have misinterpreted it....short a point guard sounded like we needed more..as in back up.

jpn17
03-07-2018, 09:58 AM
It seems we don’t have a true backup PG right now. This is common enough in college- but if there is foul trouble, which Perkins has gotten into a few times, it could be the Achilles heel.

Very good OP, btw.

Few said, per last night’s broadcast team, that there came a point recently when he light went on for this group collectively. I think we can all see how much more connected they are on defense of late. There was a play last night where JW3 beat a BYU guard to his spot on the floor and disrupted everything- that’s taking a game plan to heart and knowing how to execute it, in my opinion. This team has been fun to watch lately.

For as much flak as Perkins has taken on this board at times this year, the offense really does suffer when he's not in there. Perkins may not lead the team in points and he may not be the best shooter or the best playmaker, but the offense runs through him, there is no question about it.

cggonzaga
03-07-2018, 10:31 AM
Guess I could have misinterpreted it....short a point guard sounded like we needed more..as in back up.

Maybe I misinterpreted it.

TacomaZAG
03-07-2018, 10:50 AM
We had two legit 7 footers playing meaningful minutes at center last year, a rarity for any college team.

I think we're big enough at the 3-4-5 when J3, Rui, and Killian are on the court at the same time. Those three comprise one of the best, most athletic frontcourts in the entire nation.

This...........................

Also, I think Coach has adjusted/adapted/matured since last year, and even more in the last 3 years. In years past, both Norvell and Rui would have been immediately benched for an ill advised 3-point shot, forcing it on offense, or a momentary assignment lapse on defense. I think a big part of the team's recent "ultra" success goes to the fact that Coach has adapted his style to the strengths of his players, instead of forcing the players to adapt to his system. Case in point...........Tillie and Josh Heytvelt are/were very similar in terms of skill set, but Josh was forced into being a "back-to-the-basket" big instead of being allowed to roam a little on the perimeter and take maximum advantage of his skill set. Also, there have been a number of guards in the Norvell mold who were "squashed" in years past when exercising anywhere near the offensive freedom Zach enjoys and is encouraged to continue.

The program has matured, and, IMHO, the guys are really benefiting from the additional freedom being allowed/encouraged. Maybe a FF will do that to a Coach/program, but I wanted to recognize Coach's maturation as well as the players. It has been really fun to watch...........

Go ZAGS

DixieZag
03-07-2018, 11:36 AM
This...........................

Also, I think Coach has adjusted/adapted/matured since last year, and even more in the last 3 years. In years past, both Norvell and Rui would have been immediately benched for an ill advised 3-point shot, forcing it on offense, or a momentary assignment lapse on defense. I think a big part of the team's recent "ultra" success goes to the fact that Coach has adapted his style to the strengths of his players, instead of forcing the players to adapt to his system. Case in point...........Tillie and Josh Heytvelt are/were very similar in terms of skill set, but Josh was forced into being a "back-to-the-basket" big instead of being allowed to roam a little on the perimeter and take maximum advantage of his skill set. Also, there have been a number of guards in the Norvell mold who were "squashed" in years past when exercising anywhere near the offensive freedom Zach enjoys and is encouraged to continue.

The program has matured, and, IMHO, the guys are really benefiting from the additional freedom being allowed/encouraged. Maybe a FF will do that to a Coach/program, but I wanted to recognize Coach's maturation as well as the players. It has been really fun to watch...........

Go ZAGS

One of the traits I most admire (and aspire) are those professionals that reach success in middle age and feel comfortable enough in their own skin to openly say that they don't know everything, still have weaknesses, and want to evolve and add new elements, always believing they can learn more, learn from others.

Few has been so impressive in this area. Evolving, even though he was already one of the best coaches in the country, he's trying new approaches, comfortable enough to perhaps demonstrate that different ideas might've been better all along.

It is so admirable, he has never been better. I think it was his best conf coaching job ever. He's hall of fame-worthy, one of the top 5 coaches in country, a great role model for our kids, and someone we can all take a page from.

Malastein
03-07-2018, 12:05 PM
As quite of few have pointed out, my intent wasn’t to slam Perkins or any other player. I was speaking in terms of overall depth.

TacomaZAG
03-07-2018, 12:14 PM
One of the traits I most admire (and aspire) are those professionals that reach success in middle age and feel comfortable enough in their own skin to openly say that they don't know everything, still have weaknesses, and want to evolve and add new elements, always believing they can learn more, learn from others.

Few has been so impressive in this area. Evolving, even though he was already one of the best coaches in the country, he's trying new approaches, comfortable enough to perhaps demonstrate that different ideas might've been better all along.

It is so admirable, he has never been better. I think it was his best conf coaching job ever. He's hall of fame-worthy, one of the top 5 coaches in country, a great role model for our kids, and someone we can all take a page from.

Well put Dix...............

+100

Go ZAGS

webspinnre
03-07-2018, 01:51 PM
Yeah, I think the point is that we don't have a backup point guard and don't have a backup center/true center. Obviously we're playing 7 deep right now. Many of us hoped that Larson could become the reliable backup center, and that a reliable backup point guard would hopefully come along. Neither of those happened, so they're definitely clear weaknesses going into the tournament.

cggonzaga
03-07-2018, 03:43 PM
Yeah, I think the point is that we don't have a backup point guard and don't have a backup center/true center. Obviously we're playing 7 deep right now. Many of us hoped that Larson could become the reliable backup center, and that a reliable backup point guard would hopefully come along. Neither of those happened, so they're definitely clear weaknesses going into the tournament.

Are they though? How many teams around the country have that? Probably could count on one hand if not a few fingers.

JPtheBeasta
03-07-2018, 04:09 PM
For as much flak as Perkins has taken on this board at times this year, the offense really does suffer when he's not in there. Perkins may not lead the team in points and he may not be the best shooter or the best playmaker, but the offense runs through him, there is no question about it.

I agree

Hoopaholic
03-07-2018, 04:14 PM
Are they though? How many teams around the country have that? Probably could count on one hand if not a few fingers.

Curious who have a solid backup pg and center. I can't think of any team to be honest

Hoopaholic
03-07-2018, 04:15 PM
As quite of few have pointed out, my intent wasnít to slam Perkins or any other player. I was speaking in terms of overall depth.

Sorry that would be my error I was taking what was written as what was intended

cggonzaga
03-07-2018, 04:55 PM
Curious who have a solid backup pg and center. I can't think of any team to be honest

Yeah I’m not sure. Maybe Villanova or Duke?

Hoopaholic
03-07-2018, 05:11 PM
Yeah Iím not sure. Maybe Villanova or Duke?

Duke goes 6 deep

Hoopaholic
03-07-2018, 05:15 PM
Yeah I’m not sure. Maybe Villanova or Duke?

Villanova has a great backup power forward that also plays 5 slot

Their backup guard is a freshman decent but nothing to call home about

They would be closest team to have a solid big and a solid guard off bench....but so do we. Rui and kispert

Zagceo
03-07-2018, 05:22 PM
Villanova has a great backup power forward that also plays 5 slot

Their backup guard is a freshman decent but nothing to call home about

They would be closest team to have a solid big and a solid guard off bench....but so do we. Rui and kispert

Arizona plays 2 centers and has lots of guards

Hoopaholic
03-07-2018, 05:27 PM
Arizona plays 2 centers and has lots of guards

That they do. We were trying to come up with teams that have a solid post and pg off the bench

Smith is a solid guard off bench for them and they have luxury of saving a big in foul trouble scenarios but they don't have a big that comes off bench