PDA

View Full Version : OT - Sean Miller Staying At Arizona (per press conference)



CDC84
03-01-2018, 10:52 AM
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/969297111492780034

Arizona just held a joint press conference


Sean Miller is going to continue coaching Arizona’s men’s basketball team despite ESPN reporting that he’s been caught on a wiretap discussing a pay-for-play scheme with Christian Dawkins about Deandre Ayton. Miller said the report is false and no such conversation ever happened.

I will tell you this.....if the allegation proves to be untrue, ESPN writer Mark Schlabach is going to get fired, and he could face some legal issues.

A reminder that the Miller/Ayton allegation was reported by Mark himself.....it's not a part of the Yahoo report from last week with the list of teams, etc.

SWZag
03-01-2018, 10:55 AM
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/s...97111492780034

Arizona just held a joint press conference


Sean Miller is going to continue coaching Arizona’s men’s basketball team despite ESPN reporting that he’s been caught on a wiretap discussing a pay-for-play scheme with Christian Dawkins about Deandre Ayton. Miller said the report is false and no such conversation ever happened.

I will tell you this.....if the allegation proves to be untrue, ESPN writer Mark Schlabach is going to get fired, and he could face some legal issues.

A reminder that the Miller/Ayton allegation was reported by Mark himself.....it's not a part of the Yahoo report from last week with the list of teams, etc.


...and if the allegations are true, then how will this reflect on the university?

CDC84
03-01-2018, 11:02 AM
I guess the Arizona Board of Regents did meet to discuss Miller's strange contract:

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/arizona-board-of-regents-to-discuss-university-of-arizona-basketball-coach-sean-miller

Zagceo
03-01-2018, 11:06 AM
my guess....board heard Millers side and since no indictment of Miller with the rest of the agents/assistants must believe the story is biting misrepresented in the media

B Wayne
03-01-2018, 11:20 AM
Just as I thought. it was AT LEAST double hearsay to claim that Miller offered money. One level of hearsay is the supposed source. The other level of hearsay is a journalist-one of the least trusted professions in America. Hardly enough for everyone on this board to post that Miller is gone just because a journalist says it's true. It still might come out to be true- but for everyone on this board to just assume Miller is gone because of what a journalist reports is foolish. Civics classes would help in our education system.

seacatfan
03-01-2018, 11:26 AM
There are only 2 possibilities. Either Miller is blatantly lying during his press conference today, or ESPN has completely lost any journalistic credibility and integrity they might've previously possessed.


Some members here already guaranteed Miller was going to be fired before the season started, then guaranteed again he would be fired immediately following the ESPN allegations. 0-2 so far on those guarantees.

Birddog
03-01-2018, 11:27 AM
This could get real messy for some bad actors no matter what side they are on.

U Zig, I Zag
03-01-2018, 12:10 PM
To me this is simpler than people are making it seem. The question is (and what Miller is ACTUALLY denying) did he discuss paying Ayton? Both are saying no. ESPN clearly is stating they are standing by their reporting.

If there is any truth to this I think it's probably shows how big time CBB is even more corrupt than we think: the agent got someone to pay up (or discuss paying up, still illegal) to get a kid to go to a certain school. To double down on the dirty, the kid wasn't going to get any of the money.

I didn't watch the press conf, but the pull quotes from Miller specifically deny Miller+Athlete payment and NOT Miller/UA/booster + agent kickbacks to ensure a kid comes to UA. My guess is when the smoke clears, that's what the conversations will allude to.

Then again, it could be all made up - but what Fed (or not) source leaked the info? I would think that the FBI could release a statement clearing someone WITHOUT compromising other portions of an investigation.

How you doing Seacat, you hanging in there?

Hoopaholic
03-01-2018, 12:13 PM
To me this is simpler than people are making it seem. The question is (and what Miller is ACTUALLY denying) did he discuss paying Ayton? Both are saying no. ESPN clearly is stating they are standing by their reporting.

If there is any truth to this I think it's probably shows how big time CBB is even more corrupt than we think: the agent got someone to pay up (or discuss paying up, still illegal) to get a kid to go to a certain school. To double down on the dirty, the kid wasn't going to get any of the money.

I didn't watch the press conf, but the pull quotes from Miller specifically deny Miller+Athlete payment and NOT Miller/UA/booster + agent kickbacks to ensure a kid comes to UA. My guess is when the smoke clears, that's what the conversations will allude to.

Then again, it could be all made up - but what Fed (or not) source leaked the info? I would think that the FBI could release a statement clearing someone WITHOUT compromising other portions of an investigation.

How you doing Seacat, you hanging in there?

Ethically the FBI should release a statement indicating there is nothing there in order to save someones employment status IF THAT IS THE TRUTH as it would have NO relevance to an investigation if there was NOTHING there

Silence by the FBI gives me GREAT PAUSE as to the allegations being preliminary factual

Hoopaholic
03-01-2018, 12:15 PM
Just as I thought. it was AT LEAST double hearsay to claim that Miller offered money. One level of hearsay is the supposed source. The other level of hearsay is a journalist-one of the least trusted professions in America. Hardly enough for everyone on this board to post that Miller is gone just because a journalist says it's true. It still might come out to be true- but for everyone on this board to just assume Miller is gone because of what a journalist reports is foolish. Civics classes would help in our education system.

not ttracking this one

IF there is tape and it is documented who is on the conversation that is NOT hearsay

Now if the reporter took the "word" of someone with direct knowledge of what the tape implicated then that could be hearsay

BUT if the reporter was provided the opportunity to LISTEN to the tape that is not hearsay as he would have heard the evidence directly

my guess is option B where he was told by someone who did hear the tape.........

U Zig, I Zag
03-01-2018, 12:16 PM
Ethically the FBI should release a statement indicating there is nothing there in order to save someones employment status IF THAT IS THE TRUTH as it would have NO relevance to an investigation if there was NOTHING there

Silence by the FBI gives me GREAT PAUSE as to the allegations being preliminary factual

Yah, given the FBI/DOJ's public opinion right now, you would think they might clear up a situation that is clearly got people running in a million directions.

*I am not saying some people's views of those particular organizations are completely warranted.

U Zig, I Zag
03-01-2018, 12:18 PM
not ttracking this one

IF there is tape and it is documented who is on the conversation that is NOT hearsay

Now if the reporter took the "word" of someone with direct knowledge of what the tape implicated then that could be hearsay

BUT if the reporter was provided the opportunity to LISTEN to the tape that is not hearsay as he would have heard the evidence directly

my guess is option B where he was told by someone who did hear the tape.........

Isn't there another Miller in all of this? Is it really as simple as that, they are referring to UA but the wrong Miller? That would be something.

hegotit!
03-01-2018, 01:08 PM
Listen to the WORDS Miller used in his carefully crafted statement. Also if he is so innocent why wait 5 days to have the press conference?

jazzdelmar
03-01-2018, 01:57 PM
Parsing his was through the sahuaros in Tucsonville.

RenoZag
03-01-2018, 02:43 PM
I will tell you this.....if the allegation proves to be untrue, ESPN writer Mark Schlabach is going to get fired, and he could face some legal issues.



As will the legal beagles at ESPN who cleared the story for distribution

CDC84
03-01-2018, 02:55 PM
This explains some of the reluctance Arizona would have towards firing Miller:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/report-arizona-would-owe-sean-miller-dollar10-million-if-fired-for-cause/ar-BBJwOZz

An article from SI which suggests that Miller may sue for damages:

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/03/01/arizona-sean-miller-deandre-ayton-espn-report

seacatfan
03-01-2018, 03:38 PM
How you doing Seacat, you hanging in there?

Between Trier X2, Book, Ray Smith medically retiring without ever playing, Ferguson opting to play pro ball in Australia and now this, the last 2 years haven't been much fun. Some of it reflects badly on UA, some of it is just bad luck, but it's one thing after another.


I will say this. I feel bad for Ayton. He and his family are vehemently denying any wrongdoing. They are understandably upset. ESPN completely smeared the reputation of a 19 year old student athlete. The UO fans really let him have it on Saturday.

U Zig, I Zag
03-01-2018, 03:44 PM
Between Trier X2, Book, Ray Smith medically retiring without ever playing, Ferguson opting to play pro ball in Australia and now this, the last 2 years haven't been much fun. Some of it reflects badly on UA, some of it is just bad luck, but it's one thing after another.


I will say this. I feel bad for Ayton. He and his family are vehemently denying any wrongdoing. They are understandably upset. ESPN completely smeared the reputation of a 19 year old student athlete. The UO fans really let him have it on Saturday.

It’ll figure itself out.

Honest to goodness when I heard the Miller news first person I thought of was you.

seacatfan
03-01-2018, 04:21 PM
It’ll figure itself out.

Honest to goodness when I heard the Miller news first person I thought of was you.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I know several here don't like Arizona or Miller. Probably some don't like me either. There was quite a bit of glee on this board when ESPN broke their story.

Zagceo
03-01-2018, 04:39 PM
not ttracking this one

IF there is tape and it is documented who is on the conversation that is NOT hearsay

Now if the reporter took the "word" of someone with direct knowledge of what the tape implicated then that could be hearsay

BUT if the reporter was provided the opportunity to LISTEN to the tape that is not hearsay as he would have heard the evidence directly

my guess is option B where he was told by someone who did hear the tape.........

why hasn’t Coach Miller been charged with the rest if he is on tape?

NEC26
03-01-2018, 05:34 PM
I don't dislike Arizona or Miller and we don't have any facts as of yet. BUT!!! Miller has some MAJOR credibility issues here. He has an assistant busted by the FBI for the very thing he is accused of and he can claim ignorance all he wants (he has to) but it stretches the imagination that an assistant that has been with Miller for years was doing this without Millers endorsment and knowledge.
Now this comes out and he claims he has NEVER EVER payed anyone huh. Well thats already a lie in itself. At least as far as his program is concerned. Me thinks we have another Rafael Palmero on our hands here. He isn't going down without a fight and he seems intent on bringing Arizona down with him. I think the AD is crazy to allow him to coach right now.

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 05:42 PM
Do I think it happened or a version of it? Absolutely.

Is there any proof other than hear-say? None.

Innocent until PROVEN guilty.

ESPN should be ashamed. Like Coach Few said, these are people, family, wives, kids behind these Coaches, not to mention reputation and future of 19 yr old kid. Who plays his tail off.

I can't believe this went public without any credible proof.

Again, I have a feeling this occurred, yet it could have been in jest, or just a passing comment on how badly they wanted Ayton. Hell, I'd mortgage by house to get him. Etc.

I think there is smoke here, yet no actual evidence of a fire, so let them go.

Zagceo
03-01-2018, 05:46 PM
Thanks, I appreciate that. I know several here don't like Arizona or Miller. Probably some don't like me either. There was quite a bit of glee on this board when ESPN broke their story.

always gonna be that percentage ....that just don’t like another flavor..wouldn’t read to much into it.

This to shall pass...hang in there Seacat

seacatfan
03-01-2018, 07:12 PM
Trier is playing tonight against Stanford. What a strange saga for him with the on again off again suspensions.

Murphy outgo lifer
03-01-2018, 10:59 PM
I have always liked Sean Miller as I thought he was a competitive but caring coach who seemed to be the right combination of personality and basketball knowledge. I remember reading blogs from Arizona fans calling for his head because he had not delivered a Final Four which I remember thinking was absolutely crazy because he was obviously had things rolling in the right direction. At the time I felt like I was a bigger Sean Miller fan than most of Arizona fan base.

Innocent until proven guilty is only in reference to the court of law and does not prevail in the court of public opinion. Most of us know that people are quick to convict based on the slightest of evidence or rumor and rarely look deep into the issues they are casting judgments on. Even though this is the case I think it is important to examine the issues at hand because sometimes evidence is not enough to convict but can show that something shady is going on. As the past has shown the NCAA and individual institutions care more about its sports/money than setting a correct example for its student bodies which leads them to overlook transgressions.

I have been following this corruption scandal pretty closely and although I do not have access to wire taps I think the evidence paints a pretty poor picture for how the Arizona program has been run and which I personally believe has been corrupt with knowledge from Miller. This is my own opinion based on the following information:

Book Richardson - Mr. Richardson is currently waiting to go to trial based on a long list of FBI gathered information that even the University of Arizona has deemed legitimate enough to fire Mr. Richardson. There is definitely a possibility that Mr. Richardson acted alone without the knowledge of Sean Miller and if there is no wire tap or other paper trail then the evidence will not be enough to convict Miller in a court of law. However, I personally believe that if Mr. Richardson is guilty then at best Miller is ignorant at best and guilty at worst and both deserve his dismissal - the new criteria in law cases are that CEO's cannot claim ignorance as they should know what is going on in their organization. With that being said I find it very difficult to believe that Miller did not know the workings of his long time employee and although it is a possibility that he was doing this unknowingly I personally do not believe the rogue assistant coach theory. If Book is guilty so is Miller.

Here is a timeline of Book Richardson's events:

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/updated-timeline-how-fbi-s-wiretaps-and-investigation-threatened-to/collection_501418c4-a2f6-11e7-bde8-37db291076d6.html#12

Joe Pasternack - According to Yahoo Sports, Former UA associate head coach Joe Pastnernack was repeatedly mentioned in a chain of emails in which Dawkins and his boss, Andy Miller, discuss recruits, according to Yahoo sports. The report says that Dawkins told Andy Miller that Arizona wanted five-star recruit Brian Bowen and said, "I can't promise that this kid they want (Bowen) is going to Arizona, but Joe told me verbatim that he will help us get all the Arizona players so put his feet to the fire." Pasternack, who helped recruit Ayton, is now head coach at UC Santa Barbara.

This is now two of Miller's assistants tied in will Andy Miller and Dawkins and once again there might not be enough evidence to convict Pasternack or Miller on federal charges there is certainly enough here to eliminate the "lone rogue assistant theory" and probably say to most reasonable people the something nefarious is going on in the program. Once again if Miller was completely ignorant to all of this than he should be fired for incompetence.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2018/2/23/17047258/arizona-wildcats-assistants-joe-pasternack-book-richardson-emails-fbi-investigation-sean-miller

Lorenzo Romar - The Romar hiring is just an observational piece for me as he was not on staff when these allegations took place. To me his hiring shows Miller's mindset and lack of scruples when it comes to recruiting. Romar is listed on the new Yahoo report for his one-and-done recruits of Markelle Fultz and Dejounte Murray as they are said to have taken money in the amounts $10,000 and $500 from ASM Sports. Although, at the moment, they are not sure if Romar had any connection this is another assistant coach on the staff potentially tied to ASM and Andy Miller and Dawkins. One thing I do know for sure is that Romar, to obtain the commitment of Michael Porter, hired his dad as an assistant coach at UW. Although technically fine with the NCAA this is the exact same thing as paying a players family members to obtain a commitment and I know that most coaches would not be okay with this sort of thing but Romar is okay with and apparently Miller is too by hiring Romar.

3 assistant coaches all tied up in the scandal is a pretty tough damning assessment of the program. Now the players.

Jahvon Quinerly - The recruit that is tied to Book Richardson and identified in the FBI report and a former Arizona commitment.

Deandre Ayton - The current recruit that Miller is alleged to have contacted Dawkins about paying $100K for his commitment per ESPN and contradicted by other sources. To me the wire tap is just the smoking gun which could lead to charges but the interesting thing is surrounding Deandre Ayton himself. I have read multiple reports, including the one below, that many believed his recruitment was "odd" or "possibly dirty" due to the fact that a top 5 recruit in the country had no suitors for a great deal of his recruitment. It was stated that because of his academic standing he was not being recruited, however, in my experience that rarely ever happens and he was deemed in good standing with the NCAA along the way in his recruitment. Pasternack was his recruiter and as stated above was tied to ASM and Andy Miller and Dawkins via Email and this is the same group that Miller is Alleged to have discussed the recruitment of Ayton. A red flag by itself

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article201933789.html

Brian Bowen - Not only is Arizona tied in with Deandre Ayton and Javon Quinnerly they were also involved in the recruitment of another alleged paid recruit that cost
Rick Patino his job. Brian Bowen, like Deandre Ayton, also had an unusual recruitment and is identified in numerous reports as having taken money and free benefits. Arizona was heavily involved in his recruitment and was outlined in the Yahoo reports as Joe Pasternack tried to secure his recruitment through ASM.

In the span of roughly one year Arizona has been involved with 3 recruits that have been identified as pay-for-play athletes and have had their head coach and assistant coaches identified with legal violations or NCAA violations through the FBI and several other news reports including both Yahoo and ESPN . Is it possible that all of this is just a coincidence and that Sean Miller did not know anything about any rules violations? Yes, but I personally do not believe it in the slightest. Will there be enough for a conviction? I have no idea but with the current evidence and reports I think Sean Miller is guilty of running a dirty program. This is only looking at a span of a year and he is identified with 2 assistants tied to sports agents and 3 players identified as possible pay-for-play and even himself being possibly on a phone call. Only one year... For me there is too much going on to say he had no idea.

soccerdud
03-01-2018, 11:16 PM
I have always liked Sean Miller as I thought he was a competitive but caring coach who seemed to be the right combination of personality and basketball knowledge. I remember reading blogs from Arizona fans calling for his head because he had not delivered a Final Four which I remember thinking was absolutely crazy because he was obviously had things rolling in the right direction. At the time I felt like I was a bigger Sean Miller fan than most of Arizona fan base.

Innocent until proven guilty is only in reference to the court of law and does not prevail in the court of public opinion. Most of us know that people are quick to convict based on the slightest of evidence or rumor and rarely look deep into the issues they are casting judgments on. Even though this is the case I think it is important to examine the issues at hand because sometimes evidence is not enough to convict but can show that something shady is going on. As the past has shown the NCAA and individual institutions care more about its sports/money than setting a correct example for its student bodies which leads them to overlook transgressions.

I have been following this corruption scandal pretty closely and although I do not have access to wire taps I think the evidence paints a pretty poor picture for how the Arizona program has been run and which I personally believe has been corrupt with knowledge from Miller. This is my own opinion based on the following information:

Book Richardson - Mr. Richardson is currently waiting to go to trial based on a long list of FBI gathered information that even the University of Arizona has deemed legitimate enough to fire Mr. Richardson. There is definitely a possibility that Mr. Richardson acted alone without the knowledge of Sean Miller and if there is no wire tap or other paper trail then the evidence will not be enough to convict Miller in a court of law. However, I personally believe that if Mr. Richardson is guilty then at best Miller is ignorant at best and guilty at worst and both deserve his dismissal - the new criteria in law cases are that CEO's cannot claim ignorance as they should know what is going on in their organization. With that being said I find it very difficult to believe that Miller did not know the workings of his long time employee and although it is a possibility that he was doing this unknowingly I personally do not believe the rogue assistant coach theory. If Book is guilty so is Miller.

Here is a timeline of Book Richardson's events:

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/updated-timeline-how-fbi-s-wiretaps-and-investigation-threatened-to/collection_501418c4-a2f6-11e7-bde8-37db291076d6.html#12

Joe Pasternack - According to Yahoo Sports, Former UA associate head coach Joe Pastnernack was repeatedly mentioned in a chain of emails in which Dawkins and his boss, Andy Miller, discuss recruits, according to Yahoo sports. The report says that Dawkins told Andy Miller that Arizona wanted five-star recruit Brian Bowen and said, "I can't promise that this kid they want (Bowen) is going to Arizona, but Joe told me verbatim that he will help us get all the Arizona players so put his feet to the fire." Pasternack, who helped recruit Ayton, is now head coach at UC Santa Barbara.

This is now two of Miller's assistants tied in will Andy Miller and Dawkins and once again there might not be enough evidence to convict Pasternack or Miller on federal charges there is certainly enough here to eliminate the "lone rogue assistant theory" and probably say to most reasonable people the something nefarious is going on in the program. Once again if Miller was completely ignorant to all of this than he should be fired for incompetence.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2018/2/23/17047258/arizona-wildcats-assistants-joe-pasternack-book-richardson-emails-fbi-investigation-sean-miller

Lorenzo Romar - The Romar hiring is just an observational piece for me as he was not on staff when these allegations took place. To me his hiring shows Miller's mindset and lack of scruples when it comes to recruiting. Romar is listed on the new Yahoo report for his one-and-done recruits of Markelle Fultz and Dejounte Murray as they are said to have taken money in the amounts $10,000 and $500 from ASM Sports. Although, at the moment, they are not sure if Romar had any connection this is another assistant coach on the staff potentially tied to ASM and Andy Miller and Dawkins. One thing I do know for sure is that Romar, to obtain the commitment of Michael Porter, hired his dad as an assistant coach at UW. Although technically fine with the NCAA this is the exact same thing as paying a players family members to obtain a commitment and I know that most coaches would not be okay with this sort of thing but Romar is okay with and apparently Miller is too by hiring Romar.

3 assistant coaches all tied up in the scandal is a pretty tough damning assessment of the program. Now the players.

Jahvon Quinerly - The recruit that is tied to Book Richardson and identified in the FBI report and a former Arizona commitment.

Deandre Ayton - The current recruit that Miller is alleged to have contacted Dawkins about paying $100K for his commitment per ESPN and contradicted by other sources. To me the wire tap is just the smoking gun which could lead to charges but the interesting thing is surrounding Deandre Ayton himself. I have read multiple reports, including the one below, that many believed his recruitment was "odd" or "possibly dirty" due to the fact that a top 5 recruit in the country had no suitors for a great deal of his recruitment. It was stated that because of his academic standing he was not being recruited, however, in my experience that rarely ever happens and he was deemed in good standing with the NCAA along the way in his recruitment. Pasternack was his recruiter and as stated above was tied to ASM and Andy Miller and Dawkins via Email and this is the same group that Miller is Alleged to have discussed the recruitment of Ayton. A red flag by itself

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article201933789.html

Brian Bowen - Not only is Arizona tied in with Deandre Ayton and Javon Quinnerly they were also involved in the recruitment of another alleged paid recruit that cost
Rick Patino his job. Brian Bowen, like Deandre Ayton, also had an unusual recruitment and is identified in numerous reports as having taken money and free benefits. Arizona was heavily involved in his recruitment and was outlined in the Yahoo reports as Joe Pasternack tried to secure his recruitment through ASM.

In the span of roughly one year Arizona has been involved with 3 recruits that have been identified as pay-for-play athletes and have had their head coach and assistant coaches identified with legal violations or NCAA violations through the FBI and several other news reports including both Yahoo and ESPN . Is it possible that all of this is just a coincidence and that Sean Miller did not know anything about any rules violations? Yes, but I personally do not believe it in the slightest. Will there be enough for a conviction? I have no idea but with the current evidence and reports I think Sean Miller is guilty of running a dirty program. This is only looking at a span of a year and he is identified with 2 assistants tied to sports agents and 3 players identified as possible pay-for-play and even himself being possibly on a phone call. Only one year... For me there is too much going on to say he had no idea.

good post. i agree, though it gives me no pleasure.

NEC26
03-02-2018, 05:30 AM
I have always liked Sean Miller as I thought he was a competitive but caring coach who seemed to be the right combination of personality and basketball knowledge. I remember reading blogs from Arizona fans calling for his head because he had not delivered a Final Four which I remember thinking was absolutely crazy because he was obviously had things rolling in the right direction. At the time I felt like I was a bigger Sean Miller fan than most of Arizona fan base.

Innocent until proven guilty is only in reference to the court of law and does not prevail in the court of public opinion. Most of us know that people are quick to convict based on the slightest of evidence or rumor and rarely look deep into the issues they are casting judgments on. Even though this is the case I think it is important to examine the issues at hand because sometimes evidence is not enough to convict but can show that something shady is going on. As the past has shown the NCAA and individual institutions care more about its sports/money than setting a correct example for its student bodies which leads them to overlook transgressions.

I have been following this corruption scandal pretty closely and although I do not have access to wire taps I think the evidence paints a pretty poor picture for how the Arizona program has been run and which I personally believe has been corrupt with knowledge from Miller. This is my own opinion based on the following information:

Book Richardson - Mr. Richardson is currently waiting to go to trial based on a long list of FBI gathered information that even the University of Arizona has deemed legitimate enough to fire Mr. Richardson. There is definitely a possibility that Mr. Richardson acted alone without the knowledge of Sean Miller and if there is no wire tap or other paper trail then the evidence will not be enough to convict Miller in a court of law. However, I personally believe that if Mr. Richardson is guilty then at best Miller is ignorant at best and guilty at worst and both deserve his dismissal - the new criteria in law cases are that CEO's cannot claim ignorance as they should know what is going on in their organization. With that being said I find it very difficult to believe that Miller did not know the workings of his long time employee and although it is a possibility that he was doing this unknowingly I personally do not believe the rogue assistant coach theory. If Book is guilty so is Miller.

Here is a timeline of Book Richardson's events:

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/updated-timeline-how-fbi-s-wiretaps-and-investigation-threatened-to/collection_501418c4-a2f6-11e7-bde8-37db291076d6.html#12

Joe Pasternack - According to Yahoo Sports, Former UA associate head coach Joe Pastnernack was repeatedly mentioned in a chain of emails in which Dawkins and his boss, Andy Miller, discuss recruits, according to Yahoo sports. The report says that Dawkins told Andy Miller that Arizona wanted five-star recruit Brian Bowen and said, "I can't promise that this kid they want (Bowen) is going to Arizona, but Joe told me verbatim that he will help us get all the Arizona players so put his feet to the fire." Pasternack, who helped recruit Ayton, is now head coach at UC Santa Barbara.

This is now two of Miller's assistants tied in will Andy Miller and Dawkins and once again there might not be enough evidence to convict Pasternack or Miller on federal charges there is certainly enough here to eliminate the "lone rogue assistant theory" and probably say to most reasonable people the something nefarious is going on in the program. Once again if Miller was completely ignorant to all of this than he should be fired for incompetence.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2018/2/23/17047258/arizona-wildcats-assistants-joe-pasternack-book-richardson-emails-fbi-investigation-sean-miller

Lorenzo Romar - The Romar hiring is just an observational piece for me as he was not on staff when these allegations took place. To me his hiring shows Miller's mindset and lack of scruples when it comes to recruiting. Romar is listed on the new Yahoo report for his one-and-done recruits of Markelle Fultz and Dejounte Murray as they are said to have taken money in the amounts $10,000 and $500 from ASM Sports. Although, at the moment, they are not sure if Romar had any connection this is another assistant coach on the staff potentially tied to ASM and Andy Miller and Dawkins. One thing I do know for sure is that Romar, to obtain the commitment of Michael Porter, hired his dad as an assistant coach at UW. Although technically fine with the NCAA this is the exact same thing as paying a players family members to obtain a commitment and I know that most coaches would not be okay with this sort of thing but Romar is okay with and apparently Miller is too by hiring Romar.

3 assistant coaches all tied up in the scandal is a pretty tough damning assessment of the program. Now the players.

Jahvon Quinerly - The recruit that is tied to Book Richardson and identified in the FBI report and a former Arizona commitment.

Deandre Ayton - The current recruit that Miller is alleged to have contacted Dawkins about paying $100K for his commitment per ESPN and contradicted by other sources. To me the wire tap is just the smoking gun which could lead to charges but the interesting thing is surrounding Deandre Ayton himself. I have read multiple reports, including the one below, that many believed his recruitment was "odd" or "possibly dirty" due to the fact that a top 5 recruit in the country had no suitors for a great deal of his recruitment. It was stated that because of his academic standing he was not being recruited, however, in my experience that rarely ever happens and he was deemed in good standing with the NCAA along the way in his recruitment. Pasternack was his recruiter and as stated above was tied to ASM and Andy Miller and Dawkins via Email and this is the same group that Miller is Alleged to have discussed the recruitment of Ayton. A red flag by itself

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article201933789.html

Brian Bowen - Not only is Arizona tied in with Deandre Ayton and Javon Quinnerly they were also involved in the recruitment of another alleged paid recruit that cost
Rick Patino his job. Brian Bowen, like Deandre Ayton, also had an unusual recruitment and is identified in numerous reports as having taken money and free benefits. Arizona was heavily involved in his recruitment and was outlined in the Yahoo reports as Joe Pasternack tried to secure his recruitment through ASM.

In the span of roughly one year Arizona has been involved with 3 recruits that have been identified as pay-for-play athletes and have had their head coach and assistant coaches identified with legal violations or NCAA violations through the FBI and several other news reports including both Yahoo and ESPN . Is it possible that all of this is just a coincidence and that Sean Miller did not know anything about any rules violations? Yes, but I personally do not believe it in the slightest. Will there be enough for a conviction? I have no idea but with the current evidence and reports I think Sean Miller is guilty of running a dirty program. This is only looking at a span of a year and he is identified with 2 assistants tied to sports agents and 3 players identified as possible pay-for-play and even himself being possibly on a phone call. Only one year... For me there is too much going on to say he had no idea.

Excellent post, I am pretty surprised that Arizona has tied their boat to this sinking ship. Miller should have been fired after his assistant was charged. The NCAA has an obligation to HAMMER Arizona for what has been going on there. Again I do not say that out of some angst against them either and all the facts haven't come out yet but CLEARLY there is some cheating going on there.

Ekrub
03-02-2018, 06:01 AM
Miller and AZ have been good for GU. Provided us with many chances to show we are best in the west, though we haven't delivered as much as I'd like to see. I'll admit I am taking some joy in these allegations and wouldn't mind seeing a few blue bloods fall from grace, but AZ isn't one of them.

AirborneJag
03-02-2018, 07:17 AM
I think ESPN is toast on this issue unless the FBI gives them some help. While Sean Miller will probably be construed as a “public figure”for defamation purposes (remember Mike Price’s failed litigation over the SI article concerning his Alabama job and the hooker) making it much harder for him, Ayton and his family are not and if they bring an action, ESPN would be well advised to make it go away since Ayton would have a lower burden and standard of proof. I think ESPN was terribly irresponsible in its reporting and it will probably have to pay for it in the end.

titopoet
03-02-2018, 07:36 AM
I think ESPN is toast on this issue unless the FBI gives them some help. While Sean Miller will probably be construed as a “public figure”for defamation purposes (remember Mike Price’s failed litigation over the SI article concerning his Alabama job and the hooker) making it much harder for him, Ayton and his family are not and if they bring an action, ESPN would be well advised to make it go away since Ayton would have a lower burden and standard of proof. I think ESPN was terribly irresponsible in its reporting and it will probably have to pay for it in the end.

Probably not. Miller would have to sue under libel laws and that is a huge mountain to climb.

Also, Miller seems like a good coach, but while the scandals swirling Arizona are not like Lousiville's decade-long drama, Arizona should well to proceed with caution as with so much smoke, if there maybe a flame. Afterall Rick Patino survived so many scandals that the last one cost the school its championship. The NCAA may try to use either one or both as well as some other programs as a scapegoat rather than seeing more Bluebloods go down.

TacomaZAG
03-02-2018, 08:42 AM
There seems like a simple solution to this, with appropriate consideration to "due process" and "innocent until proven guilty":

If there is a tape............PLAY IT for the appropriate ears.

If not, or if the reporter has not heard the tape, admit this is hearsay, and let the courts handle it if the individuals want to pursue it.

Until any of this happens, it's up to the school/individuals to decide whether or not to keep playing/coaching. Actually, it's up to the player/school until there is a conviction/exoneration/dismissal/resignation.

Maybe I'm missing something.........

Go ZAGS

gonstu
03-02-2018, 08:59 AM
There seems like a simple solution to this, with appropriate consideration to "due process" and "innocent until proven guilty":

If there is a tape............PLAY IT for the appropriate ears.

If not, or if the reporter has not heard the tape, admit this is hearsay, and let the courts handle it if the individuals want to pursue it.

Until any of this happens, it's up to the school/individuals to decide whether or not to keep playing/coaching. Actually, it's up to the player/school until there is a conviction/exoneration/dismissal/resignation.

Maybe I'm missing something.........

Go ZAGS

Latest espn article on their website said ESPN stands by it's sources.

Something's gotta give.

Zagdawg
03-02-2018, 09:00 AM
If any of the parties want to bring legal action -- they need to be willing to go through the increased scrutiny that comes with the background story investigation --needless to say some of the parties may want the investigation to stop right where it is at rather than starting down the slope and opening doors they do not want opened.

Coach Crazy
03-02-2018, 09:39 AM
If any of the parties want to bring legal action -- they need to be willing to go through the increased scrutiny that comes with the background story investigation --needless to say some of the parties may want the investigation to stop right where it is at rather than starting down the slope and opening doors they do not want opened.

Yep. And the FBI isn't going to put everything on hold just to address a lawsuit with evidence that pertains to their own legal pursuits. Plus, in the event you do sue someone for libel and you knew the evidence was legit, well...have fun with the countersuit and any other legal implications that come with it.

btzag
03-02-2018, 10:22 AM
Name the last person in a sports scandal who’s first response was “yep you got me, I did it”...any sports related scandal at all. My amateurish research says 100% of guys who end up guilty start out by denying.

Zagceo
03-02-2018, 10:48 AM
Name the last person in a sports scandal who’s first response was “yep you got me, I did it”...any sports related scandal at all. My amateurish research says 100% of guys who end up guilty start out by denying.

Who is Lance Armstrong

Hoopaholic
03-02-2018, 10:48 AM
Name the last person in a sports scandal who’s first response was “yep you got me, I did it”...any sports related scandal at all. My amateurish research says 100% of guys who end up guilty start out by denying.

My 31 years in law enforcement support your researched conclusion

Hoopaholic
03-02-2018, 10:51 AM
Who is Lance Armstrong

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/lance-armstrongs-doping-denials-through-the-years/

former1dog
03-02-2018, 11:22 AM
Who is Lance Armstrong

I'm sure being facetious.

Lance Armstrong so strongly denied his cheating he literally ruined peoples lives. One of the worst SOB's in sports history!

NEC26
03-02-2018, 02:28 PM
How is the guy who is running the program and telling his assistants who and how to go after recruits not responsible when his assistant is charged with illegal payments? Miller should already be fired just as Pitino should have been fired long before he was. They are crazy to not cut the cord already.

Zagceo
03-02-2018, 02:42 PM
big head scatcher for me...why would any coach put any verbiage in a labor contract referencing and profiting for being fired for breaking the rules? is this standard because of the known mind fields assistant coaches are treading with shoe companies?

jazzdelmar
03-02-2018, 02:45 PM
I'm sure being facetious.

Lance Armstrong so strongly denied his cheating he literally ruined peoples lives. One of the worst SOB's in sports history!

Not even close. All time POS.

75Zag
03-02-2018, 04:21 PM
Speaking of cheating - and totally off topic - did anybody else see the article in the NYT today about the previous winner of the Iditarod Sled Dog Race and his team of dogs being disqualified this year because his dogs failed a post-race drug test following the end of last year's race? Come to think of it, I did notice that one of those dogs looked a bit like Mark McGwire as he crossed the finish line.

Just when you think you have seen everything, something else comes along.

Go Bulldogs! Win the WCC Tournament and then join the MWC!

B Wayne
03-09-2018, 05:28 PM
It's March 9 now and Sean Miller is still coaching tonight against UCLA in the PAC 12 tournament. I hope everyone who informed us on the board that Miller was done has learned a civics lesson. Just because a reporter says something is true doesn't make it so. Here you had double hearsay...a journalist says a FBI agent says... Maybe there are more levels of hearsay. If you hear an accusation, slow down, take a deep breath, make no assumptions (guesses) and wait for for facts to come in. And also there is a reason journalists are one of the least trusted occupations. They are often wrong.

Also funny and laughable were the posts above stating guilty people always profess innocence. So do innocent people.

willandi
03-09-2018, 05:34 PM
It's March 9 now and Sean Miller is still coaching tonight against UCLA in the PAC 12 tournament. I hope everyone who informed us on the board that Miller was done has learned a civics lesson. Just because a reporter says something is true doesn't make it so. Here you had double hearsay...a journalist says a FBI agent says... Maybe there are more levels of hearsay. If you hear an accusation, slow down, take a deep breath, make no assumptions (guesses) and wait for for facts to come in. And also there is a reason journalists are one of the least trusted occupations. They are often wrong.

Also funny and laughable were the posts above stating guilty people always profess innocence. So do innocent people.

You may well be right. However the FBI has not denied having the recordings reported, he has had an assistant indicted, so there has been something bad going on there.

If he is cleared, the sports reporter will lose his job. I hope you are as ready to support him as you are Miller.

RenoZag
03-09-2018, 05:38 PM
It's March 9 now and Sean Miller is still coaching tonight against Arizona in the PAC 12 tournament. I hope everyone who informed us on the board that Miller was done has learned a civics lesson. Just because someone says something is true doesn't make it so. It doesn't matter if it's a journalist making the accusation, it's one of the least trusted occupations in the US. If you hear an accusation, slow down, take a deep breath, make no assumptions (guesses) and wait for for facts to come in.

Also funny and laughable were the posts above stating guilty people always profess innocence. So do innocent people.

If Miller is coaching against Arizona, you have a helluva scoop, Jimmy Olson.

willandi
03-09-2018, 05:54 PM
If Miller is coaching against Arizona, you have a helluva scoop, Jimmy Olson.

:cheers:

ZagsGoZags
03-09-2018, 05:57 PM
Ethically the FBI should release a statement indicating there is nothing there in order to save someones employment status IF THAT IS THE TRUTH as it would have NO relevance to an investigation if there was NOTHING there

Silence by the FBI gives me GREAT PAUSE as to the allegations being preliminary factual

I think the FBI will work on its own timetable, not that of a journalist or the student's family. The tapes may be there, and as reported. The FBI may be trying to find the 'source' that fed the journalist. I have not heard the FBI sponsored this 'leak.' This story may come back with more elaborations down the road.

thespywhozaggedme
03-09-2018, 06:08 PM
It's March 9 now and Sean Miller is still coaching tonight against UCLA in the PAC 12 tournament. I hope everyone who informed us on the board that Miller was done has learned a civics lesson. Just because a reporter says something is true doesn't make it so. Here you had double hearsay...a journalist says a FBI agent says... Maybe there are more levels of hearsay. If you hear an accusation, slow down, take a deep breath, make no assumptions (guesses) and wait for for facts to come in. And also there is a reason journalists are one of the least trusted occupations. They are often wrong.

Also funny and laughable were the posts above stating guilty people always profess innocence. So do innocent people.

So....if it wasn't true don't you think the FBI would immediately put out a presser denying the rumors? They did no such thing, did they?

Zagceo
04-04-2018, 08:32 AM
The longevity bonus....boosters...so creative


The Arizona Board of Regents will vote this week whether to add language to men's basketball coach Sean Miller's contract that would require him to return $1 million if he's charged with a crime or found guilty of major NCAA violations.The amendment would be in addition to a clause in Miller's current contract, which would require him to return $300,000 and any bonuses if he's found guilty of major or repetitive NCAA violations.
Miller, 49, earns about $2.6 million in annual compensation, not including performance bonuses, under a contract that runs through May 2022. He is scheduled to receive $100,000 raises in base pay in each of the next three years of the deal.
The Arizona Republic reported Tuesday that the $1 million penalty would come from Miller's longevity bonus, which is currently about $4.1 million and was established by an Arizona booster in 2014. Miller is scheduled to receive the bonus in May 2020.


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23026012/arizona-wildcats-decide-sean-miller-forfeits-1m-charged-crime-guilty-major-ncaa-violations

Coach Crazy
04-04-2018, 09:20 AM
The longevity bonus....boosters...so creative




http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23026012/arizona-wildcats-decide-sean-miller-forfeits-1m-charged-crime-guilty-major-ncaa-violations

Translation: We don't know if you are guilty, but we have enough cause to act on the possibility that you are...

Birddog
04-04-2018, 09:28 AM
Storm Clouds?

jazzdelmar
04-04-2018, 10:25 AM
Not a good augur.

Zagceo
04-04-2018, 10:35 AM
weeds of his contract. Company stock... Nike$200 K... IMG $200K yearly

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/sean-miller-s-revised-contract-terms-include-threat-of-a/article_2dee0bde-5b01-57bc-ad94-dcf3d5a761a0.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

MDABE80
04-04-2018, 10:36 AM
The Institution will protect itself at all costs. I suspect AZ has to show they're doing some to brace themselves an avoid sanctions. This is a big move. Somebody knows something. I'd say Richardson knows much from his X and AZ days. Seriously who needs jail and a fine?? Ayton's gone to the NBA. He doesn't care anymore. Quinnery might be another story......I don't think the FBI would go to all this trouble for nothing......... One thing: this continued drama will surely harm AZ next year and perhaps beyond.

EEzag
04-04-2018, 10:43 AM
My 31 years in law enforcement support your researched conclusion

First off, thanks to this guy for his time spent in public service.

Secondly, the FBI investigation is much bigger than SM. He might have cut a deal or this case is years away from concluding. In any case, he might as well deny and keep earning what he can why he can. If the recording exists and it was obtained legally, the fact that it was leaked is going to cause all kinds of problems. Be prepared that SM will either get off scott-free, or be compensated from the University and/or FBI. Especially in todays climate.

Zagdawg
04-04-2018, 10:49 AM
The "potential" for sanctions will be used against Arizona in the immediate future by teams who are recruiting against them-- this is probably worse than the actual finalization and consequences of a completed investigation.

Zagceo
04-04-2018, 10:59 AM
The "potential" for sanctions will be used against Arizona in the immediate future by teams who are recruiting against them-- this is probably worse than the actual finalization and consequences of a completed investigation.

yep...quasi death penalty for recruiting 4 & 5 *

thebigsmoove
04-04-2018, 11:05 AM
Louisville fired Pitino as soon as word dropped that he was in the report. Arizona did not fire Miller once they had more knowledge. I think Louisville, while a different situation, wont get any additional penalties, whereas Arizona is opening itself up to all kinda of sanctions from the NCAA by continuing to allow Miller to stick around. Just my two cents, but this isnt going to end pretty for Tucson.

Also think about the fact that Bowen never suited up for UL, whereas Ayton played a whole season.

basketballzag
04-04-2018, 11:06 AM
Not a good augur.

The double downing by ESPN on the wiretap suggests to me that FBI, DOJ, and Book Richardson’s Attorneys have all confirmed there is a wire tap off the record. I also think Miller’s contract is so screwed up in Favor of Miller that UA has no other options but to give him another year

Coach Crazy
04-04-2018, 11:06 AM
Louisville fired Pitino as soon as word dropped that he was in the report. Arizona did not fire Miller once they had more knowledge. I think Louisville, while a different situation, wont get any additional penalties, whereas Arizona is opening itself up to all kinda of sanctions from the NCAA by continuing to allow Miller to stick around. Just my two cents, but this isnt going to end pretty for Tucson.

Also think about the fact that Bowen never suited up for UL, whereas Ayton played a whole season.

And I am sure the FBI will be happy to oblige, if Sean goes on any official declaration as to his innocence.

jpn17
04-05-2018, 04:42 AM
Louisville fired Pitino as soon as word dropped that he was in the report. Arizona did not fire Miller once they had more knowledge. I think Louisville, while a different situation, wont get any additional penalties, whereas Arizona is opening itself up to all kinda of sanctions from the NCAA by continuing to allow Miller to stick around. Just my two cents, but this isnt going to end pretty for Tucson.

Also think about the fact that Bowen never suited up for UL, whereas Ayton played a whole season.


I agree and it's not like Miller is a Wright or a Calipari or a Williams either. I'd say the majority of the Wildcat fanbase has been disappointed with how he's fared to date in AZ. I know I feel like they should have made at least one final four with all the talent they've had.

gonzagafan62
04-05-2018, 05:03 AM
There are only 2 possibilities. Either Miller is blatantly lying during his press conference today, or ESPN has completely lost any journalistic credibility and integrity they might've previously possessed.

No. Espn lost that long ago when the reported on deflate gate and Tom Brady, which was completely untrue.... Chris Mortensen didn’t even delete his damaging tweet till almost a year later

Yeah it’ll be hard for you to wrap your head around this but it’s true.... espn has you brainwashed that the patriots are “cheaters”

gonstu
04-05-2018, 05:06 AM
Brighten up AZ fans, if NCAA decides to vacate anythingfrom this year, maybe it will also vacate your nba talent getting beat down by 13 seed buffalo in the first round.

dhozagfan08
04-05-2018, 08:19 AM
Brighten up AZ fans, if NCAA decides to vacate anythingfrom this year, maybe it will also vacate your nba talent getting beat down by 13 seed buffalo in the first round.

I dont think yoy can vacate a loss, lol.

seacatfan
04-05-2018, 02:17 PM
Louisville fired Pitino as soon as word dropped that he was in the report. Arizona did not fire Miller once they had more knowledge. I think Louisville, while a different situation, wont get any additional penalties, whereas Arizona is opening itself up to all kinda of sanctions from the NCAA by continuing to allow Miller to stick around. Just my two cents, but this isnt going to end pretty for Tucson.

Also think about the fact that Bowen never suited up for UL, whereas Ayton played a whole season.

Apples and oranges. Pitino had previously been in the center of controversy (something about strippers or prostitutes and players...) at Louisville. I think this was the last straw, they were ready to part ways with him.

seacatfan
04-05-2018, 02:19 PM
No. Espn lost that long ago when the reported on deflate gate and Tom Brady, which was completely untrue.... Chris Mortensen didn’t even delete his damaging tweet till almost a year later

Yeah it’ll be hard for you to wrap your head around this but it’s true.... espn has you brainwashed that the patriots are “cheaters”

I've heard that some of their reporting about Michigan St. was not accurate either. Drop a bomb, do a hatchet job first, worry about facts later (or never).

ZagsObserver
04-05-2018, 03:32 PM
I've heard that some of their reporting about Michigan St. was not accurate either. Drop a bomb, do a hatchet job first, worry about facts later (or never).

Hard to say. Everyone involved is going to deny every part of it. I wouldn’t base your conclusions on a series of denials from anybody that comes close to touching this.

RenoZag
11-01-2018, 07:32 PM
A day after Arizona board of regents member Bill Ridenour told the Arizona Republic that Arizona men's basketball coach Sean Miller's job was not in jeopardy, the board's chair wasn't willing to go that far.

"We never made a statement to that effect," chair Ron Shoopman said following a special board meeting intended "for legal advice and discussion in the wake of federal court cases linking the Arizona men's basketball program to pay-for-play schemes."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25149747/board-never-said-sean-miller-job-safe

jazzdelmar
11-02-2018, 04:09 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25149747/board-never-said-sean-miller-job-safe

Seannie’s like a NYC roach. Impossible to kill....

bartruff1
11-02-2018, 06:10 AM
He is a survivor.....given how stressed he gets during the games, I am surprised he has not had a stress related incident....I lost all respect for him after his comments about the ugly fight between X and Cincy....