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MBAGael
02-28-2018, 01:56 PM
https://twitter.com/sdutzeigler/status/968980222610571264?s=21

sittingon50
02-28-2018, 01:59 PM
Gee, then the MWC would get BYU too!! Wouldn't that be fun?

:fingergun:

Skimhvn
02-28-2018, 02:04 PM
Then MWC could be high-major. This is good news. Zags, BYU, SMC all should move.

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 02:06 PM
Interesting, potentially adds a new wrinkle to this week's tournament.

Might speed up the process on hiring the next WCC commissioner, too.

former1dog
02-28-2018, 02:10 PM
Can't say for sure, but none of that sounds insignificant.

I have a personal preference to stay in the WCC and right now it is an equal conference to the MWC in terms of quality of basketball. That said, MWC and its individual institutions have the resources to improve rapidly and significantly.












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GoZags
02-28-2018, 02:10 PM
That would be “three” conferences that have talked to Gonzaga (officially or unofficially in the last 18 months). The other two being the Big East and the AAC.

Gonzaga’s position is to “listen” ....

former1dog
02-28-2018, 02:11 PM
That would be “three” conferences that have talked to Gonzaga (officially or unofficially in the last 18 months). The other two being the Big East and the AAC.


Almost seems like a matter of when and not if?

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 02:12 PM
Then MWC could be high-major. This is good news. Zags, BYU, SMC all should move.

SMC isn't going anywhere, they don't have the facilities suitable for the MWC.

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 02:13 PM
Almost seems like a matter of when and not if?

The train is getting ready to leave the (WCC) station.

Bogozags
02-28-2018, 02:17 PM
Seems like the most logical choice as the MWC has 12 football schools and only 11 basketball, baseball, soccer teams etc.

Opens different markets...hope it works

former1dog
02-28-2018, 02:18 PM
The train is getting ready to leave the (WCC) station.

The way things are lining up, it seems it might be a survival move for Gonzaga. If the NCAA and money movers continue to favor the major conferences, Gonzaga has got to be positioned in the right spot.

Its sad in a way, actually.

Interestingly, my favorite sport at Gonzaga... Cross Country, will have a better chance to do well in the MWC than the WCC. The WCC has two perennial National title contenders in BYU and Portland.

ZigZagger
02-28-2018, 02:22 PM
MWC > WCC no matter how you look at it.
Sagarin does a conference breakdown and MWC is 8th (75.83), WCC is 11th (72.45).
Individually, the MWC has 6 teams (out of 11) in the top 100, WCC has 3 (out of 10). The MWC has 3 teams over 200, WCC has 4.

If you add GU and BYU to the MWC, the conference becomes the 7th major (in basketball) and starts putting pressure on the Pac-12. Meanwhile, without GU/BYU, the WCC sinks to obscurity.

ZagNative
02-28-2018, 02:24 PM
Wow. Interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing!

adoptedzag
02-28-2018, 02:26 PM
I'm all for it.

Bogozags
02-28-2018, 02:31 PM
MWC > WCC no matter how you look at it.
Sagarin does a conference breakdown and MWC is 8th (75.83), WCC is 11th (72.45).
Individually, the MWC has 6 teams (out of 11) in the top 100, WCC has 3 (out of 10). The MWC has 3 teams over 200, WCC has 4.

If you add GU and BYU to the MWC, the conference becomes the 7th major (in basketball) and starts putting pressure on the Pac-12. Meanwhile, without GU/BYU, the WCC sinks to obscurity.

I don’t see BYU invited as they already have 12 football schools (Hawaii)

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 02:33 PM
The way things are lining up, it seems it might be a survival move for Gonzaga. If the NCAA and money movers continue to favor the major conferences, Gonzaga has got to be positioned in the right spot.

Its sad in a way, actually.

Interestingly, my favorite sport at Gonzaga... Cross Country, will have a better chance to do well in the MWC than the WCC. The WCC has two perennial National title contenders in BYU and Portland.

Considering the WCC gives an equal share of NCAA money, there's no golden handcuffs to keep us.

Personally, I'm all for it...ABQ is about a 12 hour drive, with Tucumcari as a stopping point. A "suite" at the Historic Route 66 Motel goes for about $50. FYI, several places in Tucumcari received credits in the first Cars movie. Radiator Springs was crafted from Tucumcari. One of the most inspiring homilies I ever heard was at the Catholic church there.

It also has a pretty good dinosaur museum, operated by the local CC.

My sister lives in Reno, as if I needed an excuse to pay a visit.

gonstu
02-28-2018, 02:33 PM
I like being in the WCC and want them to stay. However, I am intrigued by the above thoughts about this being a 'survival' move for the zags. Don't know how big a jump WCC to MWC is though.

And also...Wyoming? Nevada? Two worst tourney losses in zag history!

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 02:34 PM
MWC > WCC no matter how you look at it.
Sagarin does a conference breakdown and MWC is 8th (75.83), WCC is 11th (72.45).
Individually, the MWC has 6 teams (out of 11) in the top 100, WCC has 3 (out of 10). The MWC has 3 teams over 200, WCC has 4.

If you add GU and BYU to the MWC, the conference becomes the 7th major (in basketball) and starts putting pressure on the Pac-12. Meanwhile, without GU/BYU, the WCC sinks to obscurity.

Add Zags to the MWC, and the Sagarin ratings improve...subtract the Zags from the WCC, and it probably drops from 11 to 15, or worse.

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 02:35 PM
I like being in the WCC and want them to stay. However, I am intrigued by the above thoughts about this being a 'survival' move for the zags. Don't know how big a jump WCC to MWC is though.

And also...Wyoming? Nevada? Two worst tourney losses in zag history!

Revenge...

77Zag
02-28-2018, 02:37 PM
So, Vegas twice a year..hmmm

ZigZagger
02-28-2018, 02:37 PM
I don’t see BYU invited as they already have 12 football schools (Hawaii)

The SD-Trib article says that BYU would consider returning to the MWC for Bball if GU joins. BYU would probably stay independent in fball anyway...

gueastcoast
02-28-2018, 02:43 PM
Consider me anti. To me...either stay in the WCC with our shared academic and cultural mission with most of the other programs, or make a step-function move up (Big East, say). This feels like a sideways move...slightly up, yes, based on the conference rankings, but not one consistent with a national profile program.

Zagdawg
02-28-2018, 02:43 PM
"Mountain West Commissioner Craig Thompson on Wednesday told the Union-Tribune he has held discussions with Gonzaga about leaving the West Coast Conference for the Mountain West, perhaps as early as next season."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-sdsu-20180228-story.html

ZagsObserver
02-28-2018, 02:46 PM
The WCC has had multiple opportunities to accommodate the Zags based on what they provide to the conference. In short, they’ve done nothing and continues to take the dollars the Zags have brought in and distribute it to those that have not similarly invested in their programs.

Their loss. At the end of the day the conference may lose the cash cow.

krozman
02-28-2018, 02:47 PM
Gonzaga should only move if the entire conference agrees to improve their facilities with all the NCAA tournament money that comes in. It's going from a 1 bid league to a 1 bid league and there has to be a long term plan whereby the entire conference is invested and interested in improvement.

Zagceo
02-28-2018, 02:47 PM
The train is getting ready to leave the (WCC) station.

time for change....

sittingon50
02-28-2018, 02:49 PM
[QUOTE=ZigZagger;1366852]The SD-Trib article says that BYU would consider returning to the MWC for Bball if GU joins.QUOTE]

Why would they do that with such a golden opportunity to finish 2nd in the WCC?

RenoZag
02-28-2018, 02:56 PM
Gonzaga should only move if the entire conference agrees to improve their facilities with all the NCAA tournament money that comes in. It's going from a 1 bid league to a 1 bid league and there has to be a long term plan whereby the entire conference is invested and interested in improvement.

Which facilities are sub-par ? I thought most of the MW schools play in some fairly large arenas, krozman. San Jose State and Air Force are the only venues with less than 6,000 capacity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_West_Conference#Facilities

sittingon50
02-28-2018, 02:58 PM
"Mountain West Commissioner Craig Thompson on Wednesday told the Union-Tribune he has held discussions with Gonzaga about leaving the West Coast Conference for the Mountain West, perhaps as early as next season."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-sdsu-20180228-story.html

Best case (IMO) is WCC purser's need to figure out a more equitable way to divvy up the NCAA Tourney money. "One for all & all for one" hasn't really been fair.

23dpg
02-28-2018, 03:03 PM
Best case (IMO) is WCC purser's need to figure out a more equitable way to divvy up the NCAA Tourney money. "One for all & all for one" hasn't really been fair.

Double edged sword. We deserve more money but taking away money from other schools will not improve their product.

RenoZag
02-28-2018, 03:04 PM
Can't say for sure, but none of that sounds insignificant.

I have a personal preference to stay in the WCC and right now it is an equal conference to the MWC in terms of quality of basketball. That said, MWC and its individual institutions have the resources to improve rapidly and significantly.












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+

San Jose State
Colorado State
Air Force

Slipper Still Fits coverage: https://www.slipperstillfits.com/2018/2/28/17064914/mountain-west-conference-realignment-gonzaga-bulldogs

Mr Vulture
02-28-2018, 03:14 PM
If Gonzaga and BYU came into the MWC, it would immediately become a 2-3 bid league with all teams benefiting from the bump in the computer ratings. Right now, Gonzaga could go undefeated for the season and the lower end of the conference would still drag them down to the point it would be debatable if they should be a top seed or not. The mention in the article that potentially they give Gonzaga a larger slice of the basketball revenue is interesting as well.

If you ask me, this is more than a lateral move on many levels. The one area that it doesn't fit as well as the WCC is the school size/mission aspect.

krozman
02-28-2018, 03:24 PM
Which facilities are sub-par ? I thought most of the MW schools play in some fairly large arenas, krozman. San Jose State and Air Force are the only venues with less than 6,000 capacity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_West_Conference#Facilities

My comment isn't an indictment of the MWC but the WCC. Sometimes when making a change you learn from the mistakes of your former conference and just ink a confirmation of what is already true - which is that every member regardless of success should continue improving either on the court but certainly in facilities.

caduceus
02-28-2018, 03:39 PM
Not a fan of this proposal. MWC schools are awfully dissimilar to GU, in mission, size, fanbase character, among other things. It's not much of a step up either. I don't think this will benefit other GU sports programs much outside of basketball, particularly when you consider overall sports budgets of these schools (which are huge with football). I think it's a decision that GU will very much come to regret in the long run. I also fear how GU will be viewed from the vantage of the other schools. The dynamics between GU and UP, SMC, Pepp, etc. student body/fanbases will be very, very different that those between GU and SDSU, Nevada, UNLV, etc. I don't think it would rise to the level of MWC/BYU hate, but could be a toxic mess. None of these schools are primarily a "basketball school," but secondarily. I fear our board would be in lockdown mode all the time as well.

However, if the idea lights a fire under the asses of the WCC administration and other WCC schools to improve their programs and facilities, then there's some benefit to the discussion of it.

gonzagafan62
02-28-2018, 03:42 PM
This I am not in favor of at all

DixieZag
02-28-2018, 03:47 PM
Seems like pounding a square peg in a round hole. Of course, there are no square holes to be found.

Big decision. Lots of pressure on Roth. I probably wouldn't do it if it were up to me, but I have nowhere near the experience and vision these folks do. I'll support whatever they decide.

Bogozags
02-28-2018, 03:55 PM
If Gonzaga and BYU came into the MWC, it would immediately become a 2-3 bid league with all teams benefiting from the bump in the computer ratings. Right now, Gonzaga could go undefeated for the season and the lower end of the conference would still drag them down to the point it would be debatable if they should be a top seed or not. The mention in the article that potentially they give Gonzaga a larger slice of the basketball revenue is interesting as well.

If you ask me, this is more than a lateral move on many levels. The one area that it doesn't fit as well as the WCC is the school size/mission aspect.

Right now the MWC has 12 football schools (Hawaii) and only 11 schools for all other sports. If BYU (no football) and GU join then they will have 13 schools for all sports other than football - unless they drop a current member, which I just don’t see happening. The MWC needs to keep it’s 12 football schools...to keep things even...

I guess dropping Hawaii and picking up NMSU would still give them 12 teams and 14 schools for all other sports...that would work

willandi
02-28-2018, 04:05 PM
Right now the MWC has 12 football schools (Hawaii) and only 11 schools for all other sports. If BYU (no football) and GU join then they will have 13 schools for all sports other than football - unless they drop a current member, which I just don’t see happening. The MWC needs to keep it’s 12 football schools...to keep things even...

I guess dropping Hawaii and picking up NMSU would still give them 12 teams and 14 schools for all other sports...that would work

The comments on the post was that most wanted to drop San Jose

soccerdud
02-28-2018, 04:12 PM
not sure how i feel about the idea overall -- but it would sure be interesting to have brandon clarke going against his former team (SJSU) in conference next year. don't think that's happened with a team's (former) star player in recent history.

U Zig, I Zag
02-28-2018, 04:14 PM
I don’t like it. But I don’t have any say in it either.

mgadfly
02-28-2018, 04:20 PM
Adding BYU and GU to the MWC would be a big step up in hoops.

KPom currently has the MWC at #8 and the WCC at #10. So at first it doesn't look like that big of a deal. But if you break down the numbers, there is a huge gap between #8 and #9 and an equally big gap between #9 and #10. The MWC has 7 teams better than our 4th best. But if you added GU and BYU from the WCC, the new MWC would have 9 teams better than San Diego. That's a two bid conference every season with possibly four or five in some seasons.

Since I don't see why kids at a Jesuit school can't compete against kids at a state school on a regular basis, I'm for it. I'd also be for the WCC adding Nevada, Boise State and SDSU and dropping Pacific or Pepperdine (or both).

Alum08
02-28-2018, 04:26 PM
The other WCC schools need to spend money earned via Gonzaga basketball on improving their basketball programs. If the status quo does not change, I welcome a move anywhere.

I'm also curious in Few's personal involvement in bringing other WCC teams into the fray. He's been spit on by the league thus far: now he could single-handedly destroy the WCC if the MWC or some other conference were to give him carte blanche on selecting 2-3 WCC teams to bring with him.

CaliWG
02-28-2018, 04:27 PM
https://twitter.com/sdutzeigler/status/968980222610571264?s=21

I think if the MW went to a policy where teams kept half of all the tournament revenue they generate after the 1st Round, Gonzaga would be all in. It is a neutral policy on its face, but besides Gonzaga, none of the MW teams have a history of really making noise in the tournament. That could mean potentially millions in additional revenue for GU that current goes to the dregs of the WCC.

Murphy outgo lifer
02-28-2018, 04:27 PM
Not a fan of this proposal. MWC schools are awfully dissimilar to GU, in mission, size, fanbase character, among other things. It's not much of a step up either. I don't think this will benefit other GU sports programs much outside of basketball, particularly when you consider overall sports budgets of these schools (which are huge with football). I think it's a decision that GU will very much come to regret in the long run. I also fear how GU will be viewed from the vantage of the other schools. The dynamics between GU and UP, SMC, Pepp, etc. student body/fanbases will be very, very different that those between GU and SDSU, Nevada, UNLV, etc. I don't think it would rise to the level of MWC/BYU hate, but could be a toxic mess. None of these schools are primarily a "basketball school," but secondarily. I fear our board would be in lockdown mode all the time as well.

I hear the mission argument a lot when talking about conference changes but what does that really have to do with anything? The conference that GU is in has no bearing on what GU does academically and is purely focused on sports which I would argue the MWC even with its focus on football still cares more about it “other” sports than do any of the other WCC teams (there are some exceptions to this). In terms of basketball, the MWC is closer to what Gonzaga is trying to accomplish.

In terms of fans, the WCC is dead. Outside of Gonzaga and BYU nobody goes to the other match-ups. Even when Gonzaga plays the fans are non-existent, it has actually regressed a ton since the beginning of the run. To be honest, it is so boring watching WCC games because of the terrible teams and the poor fan-bases. If there is an animosity between us and the MWC schools that is all the more fun to watch – just look at the BYU rivalry we have now. These other teams actually have fan-bases that care about their basketball teams and will be amped to watch GU play them and that will be a great sight to see.

The not being a step-up I completely disagree with especially if they were to add BYU back and even if they didn’t the potential is far greater in the MWC than it ever will be in the WCC. The fact is that most of the WCC schools just won’t invest in their programs. I have more faith in UNLV, New Mexico, and San Diego St. returning to relevancy than I do with WCC finally caring about their programs. Nevada with Musselman and a retooled MWC is going to be really good for a long-time, Boise St. is on the rise and I think Leon can keep building that program up, and I think 4 – 9 on the below Kenpom rankings could have an outside shot at top 50 most years. Utah State was a really fun game this year and I enjoyed it more than all of the bottom dweller WCC games.

Not that I need any more reasons than more exciting basketball but our recruiting will go up as well as a result of playing better teams in actual college level facilities.

Gonzaga - 7
Nevada - 24
Boise St – 52
San Diego St – 60
Fresno St. – 70
BYU - 75
UNLV – 88
Wyoming – 112
New Mexico – 117
Utah St. – 145
Colorado St. – 214

Alum08
02-28-2018, 04:38 PM
I hear the mission argument a lot when talking about conference changes but what does that really have to do with anything? The conference that GU is in has no bearing on what GU does academically and is purely focused on sports which I would argue the MWC even with its focus on football still cares more about it “other” sports than do any of the other WCC teams (there are some exceptions to this). In terms of basketball, the MWC is closer to what Gonzaga is trying to accomplish.


Yeah, the only "mission" I've seen lately from the conference is to extract money from GU. We've been pretty dang charitable for the better part of two decades, at what point do we stop helping those that won't help themselves?

gonzagafan62
02-28-2018, 04:55 PM
I highly doubt the recruiting would be much better than it is now

Murphy outgo lifer
02-28-2018, 05:21 PM
I highly doubt the recruiting would be much better than it is now

I think we have only been in the top 25 for recruiting classes 1 time in the history of Gonzaga. We do really well with foreign players and transfers and I do not think this will effect that at all, however, we still are no where near the other top schools in recruiting domestically. I think this move to a conference with bigger stadiums and better teams will help us with domestic recruits out of our local area. If you followed the recruiting for 2018 we not only consistently struggled to land our top targets we consistently failed to even get them on campus. The same is coming true with Jordan Brown at the moment. I do not think the move will allow us to be a consistent top-10 recruiting team but I think it will alleviate the concerns of many top prospects of playing in the terrible WCC. At least directly out of high-school recruits.

RenoZag
02-28-2018, 05:41 PM
I think if the MW went to a policy where teams kept half of all the tournament revenue they generate after the 1st Round, Gonzaga would be all in. It is a neutral policy on its face, but besides Gonzaga, none of the MW teams have a history of really making noise in the tournament. That could mean potentially millions in additional revenue for GU that current goes to the dregs of the WCC.

What if the WCC made that its policy ? Would that incentivize the Zags to stay put ? ( Not that the school Presidents would OK such a change )

Bogozags
02-28-2018, 05:54 PM
What if the WCC made that its policy ? Would that incentivize the Zags to stay put ? ( Not that the school Presidents would OK such a change )

It’s possible but I think the dog is just going to continue chasing its own tail

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 05:56 PM
I think we have only been in the top 25 for recruiting classes 1 time in the history of Gonzaga. We do really well with foreign players and transfers and I do not think this will effect that at all, however, we still are no where near the other top schools in recruiting domestically. I think this move to a conference with bigger stadiums and better teams will help us with domestic recruits out of our local area. If you followed the recruiting for 2018 we not only consistently struggled to land our top targets we consistently failed to even get them on campus. The same is coming true with Jordan Brown at the moment. I do not think the move will allow us to be a consistent top-10 recruiting team but I think it will alleviate the concerns of many top prospects of playing in the terrible WCC. At least directly out of high-school recruits.

To my knowledge, only one recruiting class in recent memory has made ESPN's Top 40. That was the class of 2016: Zach Collins, Norvell, Jacob Larsen, Killian Tillie, and Rui. They ranked 23rd.

A move to the MWC accomplishes a major objective, that of freeing us from a conference that habitually has four (or more) schools with an RPI worse than 200. We might get a bit better visibility, as many games will be played in the Mountain Zone, more amenable to Central and Eastern time zones.

ETA: I doubt we'll ever have a top 10, or even a top 20 recruiting class. 2019 is shaping up to be a good class, and will be stronger if we can land Timme.

raise the zag
02-28-2018, 05:57 PM
Conference games would be wayyyyyyy more exciting that's for certain.

BYU, SDSU, Utah St, New Mexico, & Nevada have a reputation for being raucous environments. And not JUST for Gonzaga games.

Overall, pretty big step up, esp if BYU joined us.

I would prefer the Big East or AAC but this would make sense, at least in short term.

Most need to realize BYU has been planning a conference move for past 2 years. Looking and waiting for the right time. They nearly jumped to the Big 12 last year.

Imagine if they left? Just SMC and GU again? And what if SMC lost Bennett?

See...

At least MWC conference is routinely ranked in Top 10 conferences, WCC is often 11th, 12th, or 13th.

Now, just think if Gonzaga joined. And BUY.

We, single handedly elevate the WCC to relevancy on some level.

Do we make MWC a Top 6 conferences perhaps?

Along with BYU?

That's approaching Pac 12 level in bball.

SDSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah St, New Mexico have some serious lineage in bball history, and Neveda has been Top 25 last couple years.

Top to bottom not even close.

I like the move, don't love it, but it'd give us more legitimacy along with elevating the MWC in a bigger way than many are giving credit for...

I hope we do it.

CDC84
02-28-2018, 05:57 PM
The problem is that a couple of years ago, the MWC was given a league wide directive to focus more and more on being a football conference. My dad works for UNM athletics. He knows. Almost every team in the league has had significant money taken away from its basketball programs. UNM ended up hiring a coach to replace Noodles that cost a fraction of his salary. This is part of the reason why most consider the MWC to be a one bid league if Nevada wins the tourney. It just isn't the basketball league it used to be. Also, the MWC has made their living in the past from gaming the RPI. As the NCAA moves more towards a performance metric system....how will the MWC adapt?

You would be surprised by how much Gonzaga's players enjoy visiting the Bay Area, Los Angeles, San Diego and Portland for their road trips during league play. Especially in the dead of winter. These are key recruiting cities as well. The GU assistants often recruit on road trips. Travel is very, very easy in and out of L.A., the Oakland Airport, etc. The convenience of all this is not worth junking to gain a few spots in the RPI.

I would rather have Gonzaga games on ESPN than the CBS College Sports Network, which gets dreadful ratings. Also, by being in the WCC, Gonzaga is able to have a multiple million buck TV contract of its own w/ Root Sports. The 15 games that ESPN doesn't want go to Root, and GU keeps all that money. Those games would likely go to the Mountain Network and the profits shared with terrible basketball programs like San Jose State if GU joined the MWC.

Spending time in San Francisco and Malibu is a lot more appealing than -20 Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO. If the MWC had more of a basketball focus, and was trending upwards, I might consider it. Right now, all they care about is football. I saw two games at the renovated Pit in December, and UNM just isn't what it used to be folks. I'm just not sure there is that much to be gained by going to the MWC. Ten years ago?? Different story.

Gonzdb8
02-28-2018, 06:04 PM
we've worked pretty damn hard over the year to raise the academic profile of the university and it would be a shame if our new "peer institutions" were a bunch of 3rd tier academic institutions with rolling admissions and a 90% acceptance rate. like it or not our entire identity will be linked with those schools, not just our athletics, if we make this move. i don't like the wcc, but its a much better fit with our identity than the likes of fresno and sdsu. i'm a huge fan of gonzaga university athletics but an even bigger fan of gonzaga university. but i guess if its all become about hoops and money then yeah, it makes sense.

CaliWG
02-28-2018, 06:05 PM
What if the WCC made that its policy ? Would that incentivize the Zags to stay put ? ( Not that the school Presidents would OK such a change )

Fractions of Tournament credits are a big deal for the small budget, non-football playing WCC programs. The WCC may concede this out of sheer fear of losing Gonzaga, but Mark is already complaining about the overall commitment to basketball success by most WCC programs. Can you imagine if you were taking another $250k away from them? For football schools with bigger budgets, those credits are nice but they aren't critical to funding their programs. But a reward system could incentivize them to step things up a bit.

strikenowhere
02-28-2018, 06:11 PM
To my knowledge, only one recruiting class in recent memory has made ESPN's Top 40. That was the class of 2016: Zach Collins, Norvell, Jacob Larsen, Killian Tillie, and Rui. They ranked 23rd.

A move to the MWC accomplishes a major objective, that of freeing us from a conference that habitually has four (or more) schools with an RPI worse than 200. We might get a bit better visibility, as many games will be played in the Mountain Zone, more amenable to Central and Eastern time zones.

ETA: I doubt we'll ever have a top 10, or even a top 20 recruiting class. 2019 is shaping up to be a good class, and will be stronger if we can land Timme.

Problem here is that the Zags would lose ESPN exposure as I don't think the MWC has a particularly good tv deal. Maybe the Zags would be able to negotiate something to get their games on the mothership separately?

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 06:12 PM
we've worked pretty damn hard over the year to raise the academic profile of the university and it would be a shame if our new "peer institutions" were a bunch of 3rd tier academic institutions with rolling admissions and a 90% acceptance rate. like it or not our entire identity will be linked with those schools, not just our athletics, if we make this move. i don't like the wcc, but its a much better fit with our identity than the likes of fresno and sdsu. i'm a huge fan of gonzaga university athletics but an even bigger fan of gonzaga university. but i guess if its all become about hoops and money then yeah, it makes sense.

Just for the heck of it, here are the acceptance rates for a smattering of MWC schools:

Reno - 83.9
Utah - 76
Fresno - 54
Boise State - 82
San Diego State - 34

Gonzaga - 67

ETA: Gonzaga's profile east of the Continental Divide revolves around the men's basketball program. I was a much bigger fan of Gonzaga University when Fr. Bob Spitzer was president.

Hoopaholic
02-28-2018, 06:20 PM
The problem is that a couple of years ago, the MWC was given a league wide directive to focus more and more on being a football conference. My dad works for UNM athletics. He knows. Almost every team in the league has had significant money taken away from its basketball programs. UNM ended up hiring a coach to replace Noodles that cost a fraction of his salary. This is part of the reason why most consider the MWC to be a one bid league if Nevada wins the tourney. It just isn't the basketball league it used to be. Also, the MWC has made their living in the past from gaming the RPI. As the NCAA moves more towards a performance metric system....how will the MWC adapt?

You would be surprised by how much Gonzaga's players enjoy visiting the Bay Area, Los Angeles, San Diego and Portland for their road trips during league play. Especially in the dead of winter. These are key recruiting cities as well. The GU assistants often recruit on road trips. Travel is very, very easy in and out of L.A., the Oakland Airport, etc. The convenience of all this is not worth junking to gain a few spots in the RPI.

I would rather have Gonzaga games on ESPN than the CBS College Sports Network, which gets dreadful ratings. Also, by being in the WCC, Gonzaga is able to have a multiple million buck TV contract of its own w/ Root Sports. The 15 games that ESPN doesn't want go to Root, and GU keeps all that money. Those games would likely go to the Mountain Network and the profits shared with terrible basketball programs like San Jose State if GU joined the MWC.

Spending time in San Francisco and Malibu is a lot more appealing than -20 Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO. If the MWC had more of a basketball focus, and was trending upwards, I might consider it. Right now, all they care about is football. I saw two games at the renovated Pit in December, and UNM just isn't what it used to be folks. I'm just not sure there is that much to be gained by going to the MWC. Ten years ago?? Different story.

Interesting view that I had not deeply considered but needs to be in the decision tree

BobZag
02-28-2018, 06:22 PM
Stay.

Hoopaholic
02-28-2018, 06:23 PM
Any chance SMC and byu would go with us to mwc?

Gonzdb8
02-28-2018, 06:26 PM
Just for the heck of it, here are the acceptance rates for a smattering of MWC schools:

Reno - 83.9
Utah - 76
Fresno - 54
Boise State - 82
San Diego State - 34

Gonzaga - 67

ETA: Gonzaga's profile east of the Continental Divide revolves around the men's basketball program. I was a much bigger fan of Gonzaga University when Fr. Bob Spitzer was president.

there is certainly debate in some circles over whether GU was "better" under Fr. Spitzer than the current regime, but there is no denying we are better academically now than then. but your point is taken, especially that i might have undersold sdsu who has a much better profile than i expected.

Saxon_zag
02-28-2018, 06:34 PM
Any chance SMC and byu would go with us to mwc?

byu I would say strong chance if we make the jump they go as well. SMC don't think so. They can be kings of this WCC for eternity as punishment for not getting a new facility like a big boy would have.

Anyone saying the wcc is equal to the mwc is really laughable, this would take away a lot of those horrible conference games that drag down our RPI like this year against teams 250+. Please let this happen. Please take us MWC!!! WCC does not deserve Gonzaga

ZagsObserver
02-28-2018, 06:37 PM
Any chance SMC and byu would go with us to mwc?

BYU, yes. SMC, no. SMC does not have a large following, does not have the resources and does not have the facilities. Not a great fit for the MW in basketball, and a worse fit in other sports.

Murphy outgo lifer
02-28-2018, 06:37 PM
we've worked pretty damn hard over the year to raise the academic profile of the university and it would be a shame if our new "peer institutions" were a bunch of 3rd tier academic institutions with rolling admissions and a 90% acceptance rate. like it or not our entire identity will be linked with those schools, not just our athletics, if we make this move. i don't like the wcc, but its a much better fit with our identity than the likes of fresno and sdsu. i'm a huge fan of gonzaga university athletics but an even bigger fan of gonzaga university. but i guess if its all become about hoops and money then yeah, it makes sense.

I am really missing the connection on how conference has anything to do with academics. I think originally they were grouped due to size of the institution thus bigger arenas and better teams. Stanford is going to be Stanford no matter the conference. Northwestern is not one of the best institutions in the country because it plays sports in the Big ten. Gonzaga will not change one thing academically solely because of the conference change. I did not choose to go to Gonzaga because it is in the same conference as Pepperdine. I hardly doubt anyone makes a decision to go to a school because of a different school in their sports conference. They are called athletic conferences not academic conferences. If anything Gonzaga has increased its academics due to its increased money and exposure from basketball. As that increases due to a better conference my thinking is that it will continue to increase.

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 06:38 PM
It's kind of funny when more than a half dozen posts on the MWC board are asking why on earth we would make the move. This doesn't really do much for me, I'd much rather see us join the Big East.

https://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/topic/75687-craig-thompson-mountain-west-has-spoken-to-6-schools-about-expansion-including-gonzaga/&page=7&tab=comments#comment-2287200

Saxon_zag
02-28-2018, 06:38 PM
Also just saw Mike Roth on swx. His tone is really interesting to me when talking about this and looking at other conferences in general. He said nothing definitive but hearing how he spoke really made me think we may be watching the zags in their last wcc tourney in the coming days.

Murphy outgo lifer
02-28-2018, 06:41 PM
The problem is that a couple of years ago, the MWC was given a league wide directive to focus more and more on being a football conference. My dad works for UNM athletics. He knows. Almost every team in the league has had significant money taken away from its basketball programs. UNM ended up hiring a coach to replace Noodles that cost a fraction of his salary. This is part of the reason why most consider the MWC to be a one bid league if Nevada wins the tourney. It just isn't the basketball league it used to be. Also, the MWC has made their living in the past from gaming the RPI. As the NCAA moves more towards a performance metric system....how will the MWC adapt?

You would be surprised by how much Gonzaga's players enjoy visiting the Bay Area, Los Angeles, San Diego and Portland for their road trips during league play. Especially in the dead of winter. These are key recruiting cities as well. The GU assistants often recruit on road trips. Travel is very, very easy in and out of L.A., the Oakland Airport, etc. The convenience of all this is not worth junking to gain a few spots in the RPI.

I would rather have Gonzaga games on ESPN than the CBS College Sports Network, which gets dreadful ratings. Also, by being in the WCC, Gonzaga is able to have a multiple million buck TV contract of its own w/ Root Sports. The 15 games that ESPN doesn't want go to Root, and GU keeps all that money. Those games would likely go to the Mountain Network and the profits shared with terrible basketball programs like San Jose State if GU joined the MWC.

Spending time in San Francisco and Malibu is a lot more appealing than -20 Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO. If the MWC had more of a basketball focus, and was trending upwards, I might consider it. Right now, all they care about is football. I saw two games at the renovated Pit in December, and UNM just isn't what it used to be folks. I'm just not sure there is that much to be gained by going to the MWC. Ten years ago?? Different story.

This is disappointing to hear but my guess is they still put a lot more effort than the WCC who does not care about investing in basketball at all. Any chance that this move to add better teams on the basketball side could shift this focus so they can get more television money??

Zagsker
02-28-2018, 06:41 PM
Conference games would be wayyyyyyy more exciting that's for certain.

BYU, SDSU, Utah St, New Mexico, & Nevada have a reputation for being raucous environments. And not JUST for Gonzaga games.

Overall, pretty big step up, esp if BYU joined us.

I would prefer the Big East or AAC but this would make sense, at least in short term.

Most need to realize BYU has been planning a conference move for past 2 years. Looking and waiting for the right time. They nearly jumped to the Big 12 last year.

Imagine if they left? Just SMC and GU again? And what if SMC lost Bennett?

See...

At least MWC conference is routinely ranked in Top 10 conferences, WCC is often 11th, 12th, or 13th.

Now, just think if Gonzaga joined. And BUY.

We, single handedly elevate the WCC to relevancy on some level.

Do we make MWC a Top 6 conferences perhaps?

Along with BYU?

That's approaching Pac 12 level in bball.

SDSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah St, New Mexico have some serious lineage in bball history, and Neveda has been Top 25 last couple years.

Top to bottom not even close.

I like the move, don't love it, but it'd give us more legitimacy along with elevating the MWC in a bigger way than many are giving credit for...

I hope we do it.

Yup

Zagsker
02-28-2018, 06:43 PM
we've worked pretty damn hard over the year to raise the academic profile of the university and it would be a shame if our new "peer institutions" were a bunch of 3rd tier academic institutions with rolling admissions and a 90% acceptance rate. like it or not our entire identity will be linked with those schools, not just our athletics, if we make this move. i don't like the wcc, but its a much better fit with our identity than the likes of fresno and sdsu. i'm a huge fan of gonzaga university athletics but an even bigger fan of gonzaga university. but i guess if its all become about hoops and money then yeah, it makes sense.

Gonzaga perception nationally has absolutely ZERO to do with academic standing...lets just be honest

zagfan24
02-28-2018, 06:49 PM
Not that this was a “leak”...but stories come out at specific times for specific reasons. I’m guessing the MWC commish was given blessings to discuss expansion right now, as conference tourney time shines a spotlight on the WCC and lack of institutional investment. I don’t think GU is bluffing but I also feel like since last year they have been increasingly open about their frustrations

I’ve been anti-move in the past. Different teams at different times seem to show flashes of promise. GU has earned two 1 seeds and made the national title game coming from the WCC. The Zags are a near lock to be in the tourney every year. Clearly it’s not prohibitive to success...yet. However Roth, Few, et al are forward thinking and see (like all of us) that the NCAA rules and objectives will continue to prioritize big conferences and big money.

There is a risk in making the wrong move, even if you ignore the Religious and academic identity concerns. I don’t know if this particular move is the right move, as many in this thread have noted the MWC has its own set of issues. But I do know it’s fallacious to believe that standing still negates risk. If you don’t keep moving forward you get passed by.

ZAG 4 LIFE
02-28-2018, 06:50 PM
Not a Faith based school in the bunch... not sure I’m a fan of this. I recognize we
Have outgrown the WCC, but only in basketball.

ZagsObserver
02-28-2018, 06:55 PM
Not a Faith based school in the bunch... not sure I’m a fan of this. I recognize we
Have outgrown the WCC, but only in basketball.

Baseball and soccer facilities are first class. The new indoor tennis building is fantastic. Volleyball has the old kennel to itself, the new Xc coach is doing great things and all sports get the benefits form the new athletic center on campus. Basketball has benefited all athletics and the benefits have been seen partially to date, and will increasingly multiply in the coming years. The statement above was more true 10 years ago than it is today.

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 06:55 PM
I am really missing the connection on how conference has anything to do with academics. I think originally they were grouped due to size of the institution thus bigger arenas and better teams. Stanford is going to be Stanford no matter the conference. Northwestern is not one of the best institutions in the country because it plays sports in the Big ten. Gonzaga will not change one thing academically solely because of the conference change. I did not choose to go to Gonzaga because it is in the same conference as Pepperdine. I hardly doubt anyone makes a decision to go to a school because of a different school in their sports conference. They are called athletic conferences not academic conferences. If anything Gonzaga has increased its academics due to its increased money and exposure from basketball. As that increases due to a better conference my thinking is that it will continue to increase.

When I chose to matriculate at Gonzaga over my second choice (UCLA), the fact that the Zags were in the Big Sky played a huge role in my decision...not. :lmao:

Actually, it was a visit to my HS by MAJ Phelps that sealed the deal. I was leaning towards GU because it was a small university, and my stepfather knew of Gonzaga's rep as an excellent school. MAJ Phelps was your quintessential Airborne Ranger, gregarious and personable. He did a great job of selling the school and the ROTC program.

Ranks as one of the best decisions I ever made.

Murphy outgo lifer
02-28-2018, 06:59 PM
Not a Faith based school in the bunch... not sure I’m a fan of this. I recognize we
Have outgrown the WCC, but only in basketball.

I do not understand the connections between sports conference and academics and faith.

My questions are will we abandon being a Jesuit Catholic Institution because we join the MWC? Did BYU have any problems with their faith and institution by being in the MWC before the WCC? Do we have a yearly faith meeting with the other WCC schools that we will miss out on? We look to the Catholic Church and that will not change because our sports play in the MWC instead of the WCC.

Same with academics. We are accredited by the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities (NWCCU) not the WCC. We do not have a yearly WCC meeting to discuss what the curriculum will be at all the member schools classes for the upcoming year.

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 07:00 PM
Not that this was a “leak”...but stories come out at specific times for specific reasons. I’m guessing the MWC commish was given blessings to discuss expansion right now, as conference tourney time shines a spotlight on the WCC and lack of institutional investment. I don’t think GU is bluffing but I also feel like since last year they have been increasingly open about their frustrations

I’ve been anti-move in the past. Different teams at different times seem to show flashes of promise. GU has earned two 1 seeds and made the national title game coming from the WCC. The Zags are a near lock to be in the tourney every year. Clearly it’s not prohibitive to success...yet. However Roth, Few, et al are forward thinking and see (like all of us) that the NCAA rules and objectives will continue to prioritize big conferences and big money.

There is a risk in making the wrong move, even if you ignore the Religious and academic identity concerns. I don’t know if this particular move is the right move, as many in this thread have noted the MWC has its own set of issues. But I do know it’s fallacious to believe that standing still negates risk. If you don’t keep moving forward you get passed by.

This.

We have truly outgrown the WCC. Now that Kansas has won its conference 14 years in a row, that removes just about the last reason to hang around in the WCC.

TexasZag
02-28-2018, 07:04 PM
Consider me anti. To me...either stay in the WCC with our shared academic and cultural mission with most of the other programs, or make a step-function move up (Big East, say). This feels like a sideways move...slightly up, yes, based on the conference rankings, but not one consistent with a national profile program.

This is not too different from TCU's path to prominence as a major football power. They moved briefly to the MWC, where they found a little more respect (though they still weren't taken seriously as contenders for the national championship because they were not from a power conference), before ultimately being invited to join the Big 12. The MWC stint was probably a good interim move. The school and their football program grew with each conference change and are now fixtures in the national rankings for football.

U Zig, I Zag
02-28-2018, 07:10 PM
Problem here is that the Zags would lose ESPN exposure as I don't think the MWC has a particularly good tv deal. Maybe the Zags would be able to negotiate something to get their games on the mothership separately?
Was going to say the same re/ ESPN. The kids still watch Sports Center. Lead in, lead out. Zags own TV exposure for the west coast during b-ball season. That’s a lot of give up.

raise the zag
02-28-2018, 07:17 PM
Not a Faith based school in the bunch... not sure I’m a fan of this. I recognize we
Have outgrown the WCC, but only in basketball.

This is out-dated thinking.

I understand the sentiment, yet grouping teams by mission/faith/affiliation went out the door in the late 90's, whether we like it or not...

Just look at the new Atlantic-10, the new ACC, the old Big East, heck...the current AAC (which we have considered).

Many, if not most of these schools used to be joined by Affliation/Faith, now...not so much, if at all.

A mix of all types of schools: public, private, faith, non faith, State, you name it...

I'd say the current Big East is somewhat of an exception, but all bball schools, by design. A unique set-up amongst all the various new and old Conferences.

Take a peek at some of the aforementioned (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/standings), just not like it used to be....join the times or be left behind. Zags have to go 30-1 to be considered for a Top-4 seed...BULL$HIT. We try and schedule accordingly, yet when (4) or (5) members of your (10) team conference are routinely below 200 RPI, its a killer.

Not to mention, we hand them 1-2 million every year, as we advance to the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4, etc.

I know Mark Few has had enough.

Did anyone listen to his vent session last March? C'mon people. Couldn't agree more.

If not the Big East, then hell yes, the MWC is a pretty significant leap. While I concur it wouldn't boost recruiting like a Power 5 conference, it would most certainly boost our NCAA profile.

IF MWC could somehow drop SJSU, they would jump at least a full spot w/out GU's help. Its really the only team weighing them down, besides Air Force, who comes around every few years too.

The MWC currently has (5) teams in the Top-100 RPI. If they added GU and BYU, they would have (7). That is ON PAR with the Pac-12.

The WCC has (3), including Gonzaga.

CaliWG
02-28-2018, 07:21 PM
Was going to say the same re/ ESPN. The kids still watch Sports Center. Lead in, lead out. Zags own TV exposure for the west coast during b-ball season. That’s a lot of give up.

The reason the MW is talking about expansion is because they are negotiating their TV deal. ESPN will definitely be a part of that, and if both GU & BYU are part of the MWC, the number of "premier" games grows exponentially when combined with UNLV, SDSU & New Mexico. That is a much more attractive package for TV than the six meetings among GU, BYU & SMC that the WCC has. And this isn't even touching on the 2nd tier games with teams like Boise State, Nevada, etc. which simply don't exist in the WCC.

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 07:28 PM
As a diehard Boise State Broncos fball fan, this little nugget stood out to me:

Would landing Gonzaga require a separate slice of TV rights fees, like Boise State gets in football?

“That’s one of the details,” Thompson said. “That’s one of the issues that’s been talked around but not through.”

Being far and away the marquee brand in the MWC in football, Boise gets more $$ than the other members, Gonzaga would in turn be far and away the marquee team in bball and may be asking for the same special treatment...and they'll get it.

Zagsker
02-28-2018, 07:37 PM
This is out-dated thinking.

I understand the sentiment, yet grouping teams by mission/faith/affiliation went out the door in the late 90's, whether we like it or not...

Just look at the new Atlantic-10, the new ACC, the old Big East, heck...the current AAC (which we have considered).

Many, if not most of these schools used to be joined by Affliation/Faith, now...not so much, if at all.

A mix of all types of schools: public, private, faith, non faith, State, you name it...

I'd say the current Big East is somewhat of an exception, but all bball schools, by design. A unique set-up amongst all the various new and old Conferences.

Take a peek at some of the aforementioned (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/standings), just not like it used to be....join the times or be left behind. Zags have to go 30-1 to be considered for a Top-4 seed...BULL$HIT. We try and schedule accordingly, yet when (4) or (5) members of your (10) team conference are routinely below 200 RPI, its a killer.

Not to mention, we hand them 1-2 million every year, as we advance to the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4, etc.

I know Mark Few has had enough.

Did anyone listen to his vent session last March? C'mon people. Couldn't agree more.

If not the Big East, then hell yes, the MWC is a pretty significant leap. While I concur it wouldn't boost recruiting like a Power 5 conference, it would most certainly boost our NCAA profile.

IF MWC could somehow drop SJSU, they would jump at least a full spot w/out GU's help. Its really the only team weighing them down, besides Air Force, who comes around every few years too.

The MWC currently has (5) teams in the Top-100 RPI. If they added GU and BYU, they would have (7). That is ON PAR with the Pac-12.

The WCC has (3), including Gonzaga.

Yup

23dpg
02-28-2018, 07:38 PM
I like the WCC and just want the other schools to pick it up. But I’ve been waiting for that for almost 20 years.
So if they move to the MW, I will enjoy the uptick in quality and the raucous crowds.
I will miss the familial schools that I’ve been watching for years.
Interested to see how this plays out.

Zagdawg
02-28-2018, 07:38 PM
As has been mentioned previously -- MWC is looking to solidify a good television deal going into the future -- it makes sense to bring the Zags (and possibly BYU) on board-- with ESPN looking at cutting back financially -- I can see them dropping the WCC and looking at inking a contract with a more geographically diverse conference (like the MWC) and maybe picking out a team like the Zags to sign a stand alone contract with (if we stay in the WCC).

Zagsker
02-28-2018, 07:39 PM
I do not understand the connections between sports conference and academics and faith.

My questions are will we abandon being a Jesuit Catholic Institution because we join the MWC? Did BYU have any problems with their faith and institution by being in the MWC before the WCC? Do we have a yearly faith meeting with the other WCC schools that we will miss out on? We look to the Catholic Church and that will not change because our sports play in the MWC instead of the WCC.

Same with academics. We are accredited by the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities (NWCCU) not the WCC. We do not have a yearly WCC meeting to discuss what the curriculum will be at all the member schools classes for the upcoming year.

Exactly...i have not ONCE associated faith and academics with GU placement in the WCC

23dpg
02-28-2018, 07:42 PM
As has been mentioned previously -- MWC is looking to solidify a good television deal going into the future -- it makes sense to bring the Zags (and possibly BYU) on board-- with ESPN looking at cutting back financially -- I can see them dropping the WCC and looking at inking a contract with a more geographically diverse conference (like the MWC) and maybe picking out a team like the Zags to sign a stand alone contract with (if we stay in the WCC).

There’s certainly more land mass in the MW. But the WCC has major west coast cities; Portland, LA, SD, SF/Oakland. Unfortunately, none of the schools have much of a following in those cities.

gu03alum
02-28-2018, 07:43 PM
As has been mentioned previously -- MWC is looking to solidify a good television deal going into the future -- it makes sense to bring the Zags (and possibly BYU) on board-- with ESPN looking at cutting back financially -- I can see them dropping the WCC and looking at inking a contract with a more geographically diverse conference (like the MWC) and maybe picking out a team like the Zags to sign a stand alone contract with (if we stay in the WCC).

Wouldn't you think that ESPN would rather have San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Portland, Spokane markets instead of Laramie, Reno, Boise, Fort Collins?

23dpg
02-28-2018, 07:45 PM
Wouldn't you think that ESPN would rather have San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Portland, Spokane markets instead of Laramie, Reno, Boise, Fort Collins?

Everybody in Spokane watches the Zags. Nobody in Portland watches the Pilots. Same with LA, SF and SD. San Diego St is a much bigger draw.

Zagsker
02-28-2018, 07:46 PM
Wouldn't you think that ESPN would rather have San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Portland, Spokane markets instead of Laramie, Reno, Boise, Fort Collins?

Not if no one in those markets are tuning in

gonstu
02-28-2018, 07:46 PM
Everybody in Spokane watches the Zags. Nobody in Portland watches the Pilots. Same with LA, SF and SD. San Diego St is a much bigger draw.

Exactly what I was gonna say. None of those teams are on espn unless it's against the zags. mix in an occasional smc or byu game for them.

gu03alum
02-28-2018, 07:47 PM
Everybody in Spokane watches the Zags. Nobody in Portland watches the Pilots. Same with LA, SF and SD. San Diego St is a much bigger draw.

Aren't there more nobodies in LA than people in Laramie?

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 07:50 PM
Wouldn't you think that ESPN would rather have San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Portland, Spokane markets instead of Laramie, Reno, Boise, Fort Collins?

The MWC has San Diego and the Bay Area

23dpg
02-28-2018, 07:51 PM
Aren't there more nobodies in LA than people in Laramie?

Of course. But the only reason those games are on espn is because of the Zags. I can guarantee you that if BYU and GU leave the WCC, you won’t see any of those schools on espn. LMU vs Pepperdine would be out watched by beach tetherball in LA.

Murphy outgo lifer
02-28-2018, 07:55 PM
Does anyone have any idea who the other 5 teams that reached out might be? The article stated that BYU was not one of the schools that reached out but stated they would rejoin if GU went.

My only guess is NMSU.

I know that most feel that ST. Mary's would be a bad fit but this is appears to be about improving basketball and St. Mary's is consistently the 2nd best team in the west not in the Pac-12 and significantly better than most of that conference. They have Randy locked up for another 10 years now too.

Realistically is there a chance that that the MWC drops anyone? Does that ever happen?

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 07:57 PM
I just read an interesting idea on another board; Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Nevada, SDSU join the AAC to form a western division.

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 07:57 PM
Does anyone have any idea who the other 5 teams that reached out might be? The article stated that BYU was not one of the schools that reached out but stated they would rejoin if GU went.

My only guess is NMSU.

I know that most feel that ST. Mary's would be a bad fit but this is appears to be about improving basketball and St. Mary's is consistently the 2nd best team in the west not in the Pac-12 and significantly better than most of that conference. They have Randy locked up for another 10 years now too.

Realistically is there a chance that that the MWC drops anyone? Does that ever happen?

I read elsewhere GCU and NMSU

jake
02-28-2018, 08:00 PM
Exactly...i have not ONCE associated faith and academics with GU placement in the WCC

I guess we look at things differently. Looking at the WCC historically it's very clear faith, academics, mission were the main common thread throughout the conference all tied together by geography. I ask this as a legitimate question, not any kind of criticism. Did you go to Gonzaga and what year did you graduate? Again, I say this being surprised, but not critical, that faith and academics wouldn't be viewed as contributing factors to the historical makeup of the WCC.

I get what those wanting to jump to the MWC are saying. Outside of basketball, I'm not sure it's a gain, and for all kinds of other reasons (most spelled out by others) I prefer the WCC, but I also recognize that times are changing and football, and in our case basketball, may drive the bus of conference affiliation.

Murphy outgo lifer
02-28-2018, 08:01 PM
I read elsewhere GCU and NMSU

Any guesses on others? Just curious.

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 08:03 PM
The more I think about it, the more that I could get on board with teaming up with other teams to form an AAC West division.

BYU
Gonzaga
Houston
Nevada
St. Marys
SDSU
SMU
Tulsa
Witchita St,
UNLV

That's a pretty freakin awesome conference, let alone division of a conference. Superior to MWC.

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 08:04 PM
Any guesses on others? Just curious.

no, those are the only schools that I saw, sorry.

CaliWG
02-28-2018, 08:05 PM
Any guesses on others? Just curious.

UTEP would be a good addition. They are traditionally a basketball school with good support and a rivalry with New Mexico, as well as being a former conference mate with many of the schools in the MWC.

Long Beach St would be an intriguing addition because its a big school in a market where the MW has no membership, and LBSU has had some decent basketball success over the years.

23dpg
02-28-2018, 08:06 PM
Any guesses on others? Just curious.

Utah Valley?

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 08:12 PM
Does anyone have any idea who the other 5 teams that reached out might be? The article stated that BYU was not one of the schools that reached out but stated they would rejoin if GU went.

My only guess is NMSU.

I know that most feel that ST. Mary's would be a bad fit but this is appears to be about improving basketball and St. Mary's is consistently the 2nd best team in the west not in the Pac-12 and significantly better than most of that conference. They have Randy locked up for another 10 years now too.

Realistically is there a chance that that the MWC drops anyone? Does that ever happen?

Better to go with UTEP...Las Cruces has 100,000 residents. There's about a dozen cities in North Texas that exceed 100K. El Paso is 700K, plus Juarez across the border, 1.3 million.

23dpg
02-28-2018, 08:13 PM
Found this on the BYU board. From CaliWG:

Interesting numbers on Tournament credits since '99: Gonzaga=48. MWC=61.
In that same span Gonzaga has 29 tournament wins, compared to just 20 for the MW as an entire conference. In current dollars, that is $76.8M in tournament credits generated by Gonzaga since 1999 (about $4M/yr on average). It really is amazing what the Zags have been able to accomplish with so few resources and a conference that insists on even distributions

ZagsObserver
02-28-2018, 08:14 PM
Wouldn't you think that ESPN would rather have San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Portland, Spokane markets instead of Laramie, Reno, Boise, Fort Collins?

Except that no one in those cities care about those teams.

raise the zag
02-28-2018, 08:16 PM
Any guesses on others? Just curious.

South Dakota St.?

Northern Iowa?

UC-Irvine?

UCSB?

Montana?

Grand Canyon?

New Mexico St?

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 08:18 PM
Found this on the BYU board. From CaliWG:

Interesting numbers on Tournament credits since '99: Gonzaga=48. MWC=61.
In that same span Gonzaga has 29 tournament wins, compared to just 20 for the MW as an entire conference. In current dollars, that is $76.8M in tournament credits generated by Gonzaga since 1999 (about $4M/yr on average). It really is amazing what the Zags have been able to accomplish with so few resources and a conference that insists on even distributions

That poster just posted three posts before you did in this very thread. LOL

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 08:18 PM
Except that no one in those cities care about those teams.

No lie, SMC sold out McKeon maybe a half dozen games. You have to look long and hard for any coverage in the Bay Area papers.

Not much different here, though TCU and SMU get some coverage. Here it's Dallas Cowboys, and the scraps go to the Mavericks, Rangers, and Stars. Of course, HS football is featured in the Saturday papers.

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 08:19 PM
That poster just posted three posts before you did in this very thread. LOL

GMTA???

Hoopaholic
02-28-2018, 08:24 PM
Watching the Nevada. UNLV game and dreaming of travel trips to vegas and Reno every year

Hmmmmmmmm

TexasZagFan
02-28-2018, 08:28 PM
Watching the Nevada. UNLV game and dreaming of travel trips to vegas and Reno every year

Hmmmmmmmm

My sister lives in Reno, and I'm RETIRED!!!

10 hour drive from Irving to ABQ.

About the same to Las Cruces, should NMSU join the club. Plenty of inlaws in El Paso.

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 08:30 PM
GMTA???

Huh? 23pg mentioned the poster CaliWG and that poster posted in this thread three posts before 23 PG and he didn't even realize it. LOL

CaliWG
02-28-2018, 08:30 PM
Found this on the BYU board. From CaliWG:

Interesting numbers on Tournament credits since '99: Gonzaga=48. MWC=61.
In that same span Gonzaga has 29 tournament wins, compared to just 20 for the MW as an entire conference. In current dollars, that is $76.8M in tournament credits generated by Gonzaga since 1999 (about $4M/yr on average). It really is amazing what the Zags have been able to accomplish with so few resources and a conference that insists on even distributions

That was me. I was just doing an analysis of what the MW could offer Gonzaga to entice them to make the jump. And a significant percentage of its own tournament credit revenue seems like it could be enough. Not to mention, the TV deal the MW could get would be significantly better than what either league currently has, so GU would be better off in that revenue stream as well.

What I think Zag fans would love, which they've never really experienced because they've been in the WCC is a conference tournament with a group of large passionate fanbases all coming together in the same building. The Thomas & Mack was electric during the MWC tournament back in the day with UNLV, SDSU, UNM, and BYU fans selling the place out. You add Gonzaga to that group and that tournament would rise to another level of intensity. It was my favorite week of sports every year, even when BYU lost.

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 08:31 PM
Watching the Nevada. UNLV game and dreaming of travel trips to vegas and Reno every year

Hmmmmmmmm

Well mods have inside sources and if you're dropping that kind of a hint I would guess it's safe to say that this may be further along than any of us realize. Plus now that I think of it, stories that specific are not allowed to be leaked unless they have been given permission to do so, in other words I bet this is pretty close to a done deal.

Zagsker
02-28-2018, 08:32 PM
I guess we look at things differently. Looking at the WCC historically it's very clear faith, academics, mission were the main common thread throughout the conference all tied together by geography. I ask this as a legitimate question, not any kind of criticism. Did you go to Gonzaga and what year did you graduate? Again, I say this being surprised, but not critical, that faith and academics wouldn't be viewed as contributing factors to the historical makeup of the WCC.

I get what those wanting to jump to the MWC are saying. Outside of basketball, I'm not sure it's a gain, and for all kinds of other reasons (most spelled out by others) I prefer the WCC, but I also recognize that times are changing and football, and in our case basketball, may drive the bus of conference affiliation.



Great basketball is what drew me to GU, not God and solid academics.

But to answer your question: no I did not go to GU (but in my defense, I never applied because I did not even realize there was a Gonzaga University till 1999)

ZagsObserver
02-28-2018, 08:32 PM
Real chance of this happening, guys. Nothing is imminent. Nothing to be announced in the now. But, there are legs to this thing. We’ll see where this plane lands.

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 08:34 PM
Real chance of this happening, guys. Nothing is imminent. Nothing to be announced in the now. But, there are legs to this thing. We’ll see where this plane lands.

Yeah, reading all of the tea leaves I bet it's going to happen.

Hoopaholic
02-28-2018, 08:36 PM
Wcc currently 13 ranked rpi. Conference

Mwc is 9

Putting zags into the MWC elevates that conference into the 7 rpi conference nipping at big ten

They have 4 teams under 200 rpi with 5 in top 100 rpi

Certainly helps us with the rpi issue

22 conference games leaving the early tournament games and couple ooc games to fill

Hmmmm

Hoopaholic
02-28-2018, 08:38 PM
That was me. I was just doing an analysis of what the MW could offer Gonzaga to entice them to make the jump. And a significant percentage of its own tournament credit revenue seems like it could be enough. Not to mention, the TV deal the MW could get would be significantly better than what either league currently has, so GU would be better off in that revenue stream as well.

What I think Zag fans would love, which they've never really experienced because they've been in the WCC is a conference tournament with a group of large passionate fanbases all coming together in the same building. The Thomas & Mack was electric during the MWC tournament back in the day with UNLV, SDSU, UNM, and BYU fans selling the place out. You add Gonzaga to that group and that tournament would rise to another level of intensity. It was my favorite week of sports every year, even when BYU lost.

So true....and week in week out tougher games with intensity on the road makes for good hoops imo

Hoopaholic
02-28-2018, 08:39 PM
Great basketball is what drew me to GU, not God and solid academics.

But to answer your question: no I did not go to GU (but in my defense, I never applied because I did not even realize there was a Gonzaga University till 1999)
All 3 drew my family to Gonzaga beginning in 1961 continuing to today...plus exceptional law school
Changing conferences won't diminish any of those IMO

thespywhozaggedme
02-28-2018, 08:41 PM
Brandon Clarke will be the answer to an interesting trivia question: he transferred out of the Mountain West conference to a team in a different conference only to redshirt a year and play for the new team but in his old conference.

FuManShoes
02-28-2018, 08:43 PM
And also...Wyoming? Nevada? Two worst tourney losses in zag history!

What’s that saying? Oh yeah: If you can’t beat em, join em.

ZagsObserver
02-28-2018, 08:48 PM
Yeah, reading all of the tea leaves I bet it's going to happen.

Most exploration ends with nothing. This one appears to have some of the right ingredients with fewer obstacles. There is a ways to go before this gets close to ink on paper, but it’s got some movement.

23dpg
02-28-2018, 08:53 PM
Mountain West Commissioner Craig Thompson on Wednesday told the Union-Tribune he has held discussions with Gonzaga about leaving the West Coast Conference for the Mountain West, perhaps as early as next season

I find it interesting the the MW commissioner leaked this information. I wonder if Gonzaga wished that he kept it closer to his vest?

ZagsObserver
02-28-2018, 08:56 PM
Mountain West Commissioner Craig Thompson on Wednesday told the Union-Tribune he has held discussions with Gonzaga about leaving the West Coast Conference for the Mountain West, perhaps as early as next season

I find it interesting the the MW commissioner leaked this information. I wonder if Gonzaga wished that he kept it closer to his vest?

Yep. Poor form

Goshzagit
02-28-2018, 08:58 PM
Worth a read:


We don’t know how serious Gonzaga is about the Mountain West, but we do know they’re talking. And we also know this: It makes sense.

Gonzaga fit in the West Coast Conference because it’s a collection of faith-based universities along the Pacific Coast. But that’s not what defines conference affiliation – like institutions in academics or size or religion – in this brave, new world of realignment. It’s about money. And in basketball, that means it’s about getting to the NCAA Tournament.

There are 36 at-large NCAA berths, and last season 32 were gobbled up by the six “power” conferences, which includes the traditional five plus the Big East (which doesn’t have football but commits similar resources toward basketball). That left four at-large berths for Division I’s other 26 conferences.

Four spots, 276 schools.

Do the math. Creighton, Butler and Xavier did, which is why they bolted for the Big East in 2013.

Gonzaga is, too, although making the tournament hasn’t been a problem for the last 19 years. But seeding is, with their RPI and other computer metrics tugged down by an increasingly bottom-heavy WCC that doesn’t seem to be improving despite all the NCAA Tournament money they get compliments of the Zags.

The only way for mid-majors to elevate their stock is through nonconference scheduling, and that’s becoming harder because schools in the power conferences are more reluctant than ever to play mid-majors in November and December, knowing they’ll have plenty of quality league games in January and February.

That significantly shrinks the margin of error for the little guys. Gonzaga has played two Top 50 RPI games in the WCC this season; Xavier, in the Big East, has played 10 and likely will get a couple more in the conference tournament.

The solution: Form a league with the best mid-majors.

That’s what the Big East did. That’s what the American Athletic Conference is trying to do by luring Wichita State from its longtime home in the Missouri Valley.

And that’s what Gonzaga coach Mark Few has privately told people he wants to do on the West Coast.

Convince BYU to come along (with all sports or without football). Figure SDSU, UNLV and New Mexico will return to recent levels given their basketball resources and fan support. Count on a couple other schools elevating with a hot coach – like Boise did with Leon Rice, or Nevada under Eric Musselman – and suddenly you’ve got a multi-bid league with plenty of quality games after Christmas.

In the end, it becomes a question of survival. Band together or perish alone.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-sdsu-basketball-3-thoughts-boise-20180228-story.html

jake
02-28-2018, 08:59 PM
Great basketball is what drew me to GU, not God and solid academics.

But to answer your question: no I did not go to GU (but in my defense, I never applied because I did not even realize there was a Gonzaga University till 1999)

Thanks for the response. I think we all have our specific perspective based on how we came to follow Gonzaga etc. A few years ago, I would have said 100% no way should Gonzaga join another conference. That was, and still is, based on my view of our fit in the WCC. However, I also recognize that the perspective others, like you, bring can help shed light on the changing scene of college athletics and make me at least consider the possibility that this is a move that isn't inconceivable. When the world around you changes, sometimes "fit" changes and a new situation may be a better option. I'm not sure that's leaving the WCC; I'm not sure that means the Mountain West; I do, however, know that you're either working hard to get better or moving backwards. We'll see how this all works out. We'll see if the MWC is something that makes sense.

Kemo 1966
02-28-2018, 09:09 PM
The train is getting ready to leave the (WCC) station.

You could be right. SMC would not fare well as an institution with all those BIG STATE SCHOOLS. THEY WOULD NEVER MOVE! They'd dwindle to the "School of the Sisters of Saint Mary's, IMO.

While it seems heady at the moment for Zag Basketball.......in the LONG RUN, it lessens your "educational brand' at GU. The rest of your athletic programs would also suffer greatly...... even your 'high flying' Women's BB team.... eventually will be ground up by the 'beefier league'.... as far as road games...probably a mixed bag at first: Boise St (vs Santa Clara), Utah St (vs Moraga), Air Force Academy (vs Portland), Laraime (vs Stockton), Albuquerque (vs San Fran), Fort Collins (vs LMU), Air Force Academy (vs Pepperdine) and S.D. St. (vs Torero's, a wash). Plus you get the GAMBLERS BONUS, RENO AND LAS VEGAS!!! FEW'S TENURE IS GETTING UP THERE. At some point, the 'fishing pond' will lure him away. RIGHT NOW HE'S AT THE TOP OF THE COACHING LADDER. By the third or fourth season, in the BIGGER conference.....wins won't be that easy. Perhaps the overseas market dries up. More One and Done's! Coaching carousel...doesn't necessarily replenish itself...right away....... BUT WHAT THE HECK, AT LEAST :

"YOU'LL KNOW THE WAY TO SAN JOSE!"

Goshzagit
02-28-2018, 09:16 PM
Like Roth said, let's wait until we have more technologically advanced ways of travel, then bolt to the Big East.

Perfect fit.

ZagsObserver
02-28-2018, 09:21 PM
Like Roth said, let's wait until we have more technologically advanced ways of travel, then bolt to the Big East.

Perfect fit.

The perfect fit with the insurmountable challenge. Gonzaga is more motivated to come up with a solution than the big east. Do you wait around for something that may never come (invite/expansion)? Don’t let perfection get in the way of progress. I think that phrase bears repeating here.

tyko
02-28-2018, 09:51 PM
Did I read correctly that there is even distribution of revenue in the WCC currently?
If so, couldn't GU improve it's position by (a) leaving and signing a better deal, or (b) leveraging an offer for something like a pro-rata share in the WCC?
WCC needs GU more than vice versa. Make a deal either way.
Don't really care about Laramie versus Malibu on the bottom line.
Sorry if already posted.

75Zag
02-28-2018, 10:21 PM
MWC would be a significant step up for GU BB. As far as "leaving the WCC", GU has given the weak sisters of the WCC more than 10 years to improve their programs and facilities while at the same time - thanks to the WCC revenue sharing program - GU's NCAA paychecks have provided plenty of cash for every WCC team to pursue the upgrade process. But with very few exceptions, the weak sisters of the WCC have refused to invest the time, money and effort to upgrade. Time for GU to move on down the road.

Go Bulldogs!

ZagNative
02-28-2018, 10:36 PM
MWC would be a significant step up for GU BB. As far as "leaving the WCC", GU has given the weak sisters of the WCC more than 10 years to improve their programs and facilities while at the same time - thanks to the WCC revenue sharing program - GU's NCAA paychecks have provided plenty of cash for every WCC team to pursue the upgrade process. But with very few exceptions, the weak sisters of the WCC have refused to invest the time, money and effort to upgrade. Time for GU to move on down the road.

Go Bulldogs!Absolutely! Well said!

cggonzaga
02-28-2018, 11:37 PM
Basketball wise, this is a no brainer. Consider this as well, student section and general public attendance at home games the past couple of seasons. People are tired of watching crappy WCC teams. Things become more interesting when you could get beat on any given night. I also believe it would help in recruiting as well. I wouldn’t hate it either if we lost 5 games and were still 14th in the RPI (Nevada). If BYU joined, we could probably lose 8-9 games in a season and still be a top 40 RPI with the OOC schedule we always play. This becomes huge not only for seeding but also at large births into the tournament.

Zagger
03-01-2018, 12:48 AM
I like the WCC and just want the other schools to pick it up. But I’ve been waiting for that for almost 20 years.
So if they move to the MW, I will enjoy the uptick in quality and the raucous crowds.
I will miss the familial schools that I’ve been watching for years.
Interested to see how this plays out.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. I haven’t at all thought any other conference move chatter was viable due to extreme distances in travel. I feel the Zags have gone as far as they can go in the WCC with bb recruitment (IMHO) and feel a move to the MWC would help in that regard (we might even draw some west side kids from choosing UW). If Few/Roth are keen on a move I like the MWC better than any other conference mentioned in move chatting thus far. If BYU went as well we’d still get to kick their posterior :) I’d also like to exact some revenge on SDSU. If not the MWC then I think we should stay put (unless there’s a magical way into the PAC).

Skimhvn
03-01-2018, 02:32 AM
Many people seem to love MWC. I don't know why but this conference attracting me.

bdmiller7
03-01-2018, 03:52 AM
Read a story that came out a day before this news broke about a dream MWC. Added 5 schools GU, SMC, GCU, BYU, and NMSU. This gave the MWC 14 football schools and 16 overall. 9 of 16 top 100 on KenPom and 13 in top 150. Teams in 4 pods for basketball. Play your podmates twice a year and everyone else once. GU's POD was Boise St, SMC, and SJSU. This would have given GU 14 conference games against top 150 teams instead of 8 this year, 9 top 100 games instead of 4. Other pods were SDSU, Fresno, Nevada, and UNLV. Wyoming, CSU, BYU, and USU. Air Force, New Mexico, NMSU, and GCU. I think this conference would be stronger than the American.

JAGzag
03-01-2018, 05:23 AM
Read a story that came out a day before this news broke about a dream MWC. Added 5 schools GU, SMC, GCU, BYU, and NMSU. This gave the MWC 14 football schools and 16 overall. 9 of 16 top 100 on KenPom and 13 in top 150. Teams in 4 pods for basketball. Play your podmates twice a year and everyone else once. GU's POD was Boise St, SMC, and SJSU. This would have given GU 14 conference games against top 150 teams instead of 8 this year, 9 top 100 games instead of 4. Other pods were SDSU, Fresno, Nevada, and UNLV. Wyoming, CSU, BYU, and USU. Air Force, New Mexico, NMSU, and GCU. I think this conference would be stronger than the American.

Why is SMC even in this discussion?

Hoopaholic
03-01-2018, 05:25 AM
Why is SMC even in this discussion?

They play good basketball
Their coach has a ten year contract so they will remain relevant in basketball
Effort to create a strong top to bottom basketball conference

gu03alum
03-01-2018, 05:31 AM
Am I the only one a little bit disappointed by the prospect of Gonzaga going to Mountain West Conference? Gonzaga is a top 10 program and should be in a top conference.

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 05:34 AM
Why did the MWC and its Commish decline Wichita St last season??

Wichita begged, pleaded, and expressed serious interest in joining MWC, and even did so publicly.

It wasn't until Craig Thompson said, "no thanks" that they moved to the AAC.

MWC was their first choice and they were turned down.

Was it due to them not having a football team?? But now, they are publicly inviting Gonzaga to join?

Confused.

They seem to be degrading a bit, and desperate. Imagine if Wichita St would have been accepted? Another perennial Top-20 program/team and NCAA participant.

ZagsObserver
03-01-2018, 05:37 AM
Am I the only one a little bit disappointed by the prospect of Gonzaga going to Mountain West Conference? Gonzaga is a top 10 program and should be in a top conference.

Right, but that’s not one of the offers. The two on the table are WCC and MWC. Few would love a workable solution in the big east with a west division but that’s not in the cards now, and perhaps ever.

Zagdawg
03-01-2018, 05:41 AM
Nigel Williams-Goss

@NigelWG5
2h2 hours ago
More Nigel Williams-Goss Retweeted Curtis Rogers
The right move !

Curtis Rogers‏
@AKidFromKent
Follow Follow @AKidFromKent
More
Gonzaga might be leaving the West Coast Conference for the Mountain West

willandi
03-01-2018, 05:44 AM
From a strictly selfish position, I like the TV options I get with the Zags. ESPN and ROOT/KHQ show almost every game. I like that.

I would like better competition, a conference that wants basketball to matter. From what I have read here, I'm not sure MWC does that, but from what I've seen, the WCC doesn't do that either.

There is no easy choice. If the WCC required the schools to upgrade facilities, how many of those schools would just leave (actually the schools don't want to do that so the WCC would never do that)? Until the WCC schools realize a need to change, they will always be a second rate conference, but most seem to be happy with that.

I want the Zags to matter, to be relevant on the national stage and to be on TV every game.

Zagdawg
03-01-2018, 05:45 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/feb/28/john-blanchette-mountains-landscape-offers-gonzaga/

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 05:48 AM
MWC would be a significant step up for GU BB. As far as "leaving the WCC", GU has given the weak sisters of the WCC more than 10 years to improve their programs and facilities while at the same time - thanks to the WCC revenue sharing program - GU's NCAA paychecks have provided plenty of cash for every WCC team to pursue the upgrade process. But with very few exceptions, the weak sisters of the WCC have refused to invest the time, money and effort to upgrade. Time for GU to move on down the road.

Go Bulldogs!

this.

We share our insanely lucrative TV deal, revenue filling their Gyms, and 19 straight years into the NCAA Tournament.

All GU has asked in return, INVEST.

And all WCC teams have done is fire their Coaches, in many cases hiring bigger names at cheaper price points. Pointless.

Even SMC is guilty, they just happen to have a unique & terrific Coach (who has now spread the wealth to USF), yet where is the upgrade in facilities? They were even unwilling to purchase new jerseys until more sponsors stepped in.

Sadly, many Administrations have taken Gonzaga annual income to the Conference for granted. Almost expecting the free hand outs.

What are they doing with it? Maybe worthy causes, yet we have given them nearly 2 decades of earning, over 80 million in NCAA Tournament money/wins ALONE! Not to mention, the TV perks/deals/exposure/earnings.

Gonzaga has a choice to only go basketball or "olympic sports" if they choose. Many Schools have "affliate" conference for certain sports, etc. Some schools play Lacrosse in ACC, Bball in Big East, Track n Field in SEC, etc. More of this goes on than we realize.

Also, MWC struck a deal with Boise St for football. They receive like 50%, the rest of conference splits b/w the remaining 50% for TV, Bowls, etc.

WCC teams haven't done squat, heck, even BYU has declined since joining the WCC. They were a Top-25 regular, and NCAA team with the MWC. At least they have invested in their program.

Its time to move on.

Zagdawg
03-01-2018, 05:53 AM
I just feel bad for St Marys......what are they going to do with their scheduling if the Zags leave the WCC? ;)

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 05:54 AM
I want the Zags to matter, to be relevant on the national stage and to be on TV every game.

And why can't they?

Gonzaga has enough appeal and brand power to secure TV deals when playing Portland, LMU, USF, Pepperdine, etc.

They can carry over to the MWC, at least eventually.

Also, add Phoenix to the market, as Grand Canyon University will be invited as well.

They have Power-5 worthy facilities from top to bottom, and will be moving to non-profit status soon. Kind of a budding program. Dan Majerle is the Coach. They also sell out their arena and have a raucous student section.

WCC is boring from a student and fan section, only showing up for Gonzaga games. Pathetic.

See the interesting Grand Canyon article HERE (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22437323/grand-canyon-only-profit-team-division-is-building-monster-desert).


"If we don't make the tournament this year, is it a complete failure? No," Majerle said. "Because we're still building something really good. Our ultimate goal is to be a top-25 team, to be the next Gonzaga or a Butler, to be the next mid-major. And we have all the tools to do that."

509er
03-01-2018, 05:54 AM
Basketball wise, this is a no brainer. Consider this as well, student section and general public attendance at home games the past couple of seasons. People are tired of watching crappy WCC teams. Things become more interesting when you could get beat on any given night. I also believe it would help in recruiting as well. I wouldn’t hate it either if we lost 5 games and were still 14th in the RPI (Nevada). If BYU joined, we could probably lose 8-9 games in a season and still be a top 40 RPI with the OOC schedule we always play. This becomes huge not only for seeding but also at large births into the tournament.

I wouldn’t assume the same OOC schedule GU currently plays if the league is much tougher.

GoZags
03-01-2018, 06:02 AM
Gonzaga would be dealing from a position of strength vis a vis "negotiating" a better deal with potential NCAA tournament revenue (like Boise State seems to have with football revenue). I took a quick peek at the last three years and here's what I found:

Total NCAA Men's Basketball tournament wins 2015-2017

Gonzaga - 10
Entire Mountain West Conference combined total - 1

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 06:05 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/feb/28/john-blanchette-mountains-landscape-offers-gonzaga/

Good article via Blanchette. Nice find.

Here is the biggest reason in bold, amongst all others, is the fact the WCC doesn't take our requests/pleas seriously. All GU wants is a plan or sign they are utilizing the shared money for their athletics, or at least a damn plan.


Now, last year was the exception, not the rule. This year, the Mountain West is ninth in conference RPI to the WCC’s 13th. Not so many years back, the Mountain West sent five teams to the NCAA tournament, and was traditionally a multibid league – until last year. And this year again, more than likely. Which sounds a lot like the WCC without Gonzaga – though the MWC has at least developed and formalized a strategy for improving its lot, something the WCC has shrugged off.

simple as that.

caldwellzag
03-01-2018, 06:05 AM
I personally think this is a great move. Selfishly I would get to see a game a year down here in Boise, but that is not why I see it as a great move. Like others have said the level of competition will step up as far as top level teams. I would say the MWC is a little down this year and they still have Nevada that is a lock in the tourney, Boise St has filtered with an invite most the year, SDSU is consistently relevant, etc. Being from the Boise area I can tell you that Taco Bell arena is ten times the facility that WCC teams have, SDSU is a solid facility as well, both these places have hosted NCAA tourney games. Have any WCC teams hosted NCAA tourney games (minus Spokane)? Revenue drives sports and if we can strike a deal with them to keep 50% of the revenue (aka Boise St. football) this is a no brainer!

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 06:06 AM
Mountain West Commissioner Craig Thompson on Wednesday told the Union-Tribune he has held discussions with Gonzaga about leaving the West Coast Conference for the Mountain West, perhaps as early as next season

I find it interesting the the MW commissioner leaked this information. I wonder if Gonzaga wished that he kept it closer to his vest?

My guess is it was the exact opposite. He would not have leaked it without Gonzaga's permission, otherwise you would have immediately read Gonzaga putting out a press release saying that they are currently in the West Coast conference, blah blah blah. Which leads me to believe that this is a done deal.

caldwellzag
03-01-2018, 06:08 AM
My guess is it was the exact opposite. He would not have leaked it without Gonzaga's permission, otherwise you would have immediately read Gonzaga putting out a press release saying that they are currently in the West Coast conference, blah blah blah. Which leads me to believe that this is a done deal.

I agree. I would guess next year we will be Mountain West Champions and a #1 seed come March.

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 06:12 AM
I agree. I would guess next year we will be Mountain West Champions and a #1 seed come March.

One year from today

TexasZagFan
03-01-2018, 06:14 AM
My guess is it was the exact opposite. He would not have leaked it without Gonzaga's permission, otherwise you would have immediately read Gonzaga putting out a press release saying that they are currently in the West Coast conference, blah blah blah. Which leads me to believe that this is a done deal.

Could also be a shot across the bow to other schools, in advance of talks held this time of year. The 7 additional wins over the past 3 years is worth over $11 million to the conference.

There is still no new commissioner to negotiate the next TV deal, and I believe we’re entering the last year of the current deal. A WCC without Gonzaga isn’t worth warm spit to the networks.

rennis
03-01-2018, 06:24 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/feb/28/john-blanchette-mountains-landscape-offers-gonzaga/

"Because the Zags would be throwing in with a collective of large state universities – though not necessarily all prestigious, flagship institutions – plus a service academy, odd new bedfellows indeed. Plus there’s that football thing, which the Zags don’t have."

These are glaring problems to my eye. I know there is a lot of desire among fans to give the WCC the middle finger but I would proceed with extreme caution.

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 06:27 AM
Could also be a shot across the bow to other schools, in advance of talks held this time of year. The 7 additional wins over the past 3 years is worth over $11 million to the conference.

There is still no new commissioner to negotiate the next TV deal, and I believe we’re entering the last year of the current deal. A WCC without Gonzaga isn’t worth warm spit to the networks.

They've had 10 years to get their act together, instead they've chosen to be Gonzaga welfare dependent. GU should claim all of the other WCC schools, save SMC as dependents on their taxes.

meadgrad02
03-01-2018, 06:30 AM
There has got to be a change to the TV deal then. Going from ESPN 15 times a year to CBS Sports Network would be terrible for the program and for recruiting. That is something that would definitely need to be worked out, games on CBS sports could really hurt.

caldwellzag
03-01-2018, 06:34 AM
There has got to be a change to the TV deal then. Going from ESPN 15 times a year to CBS Sports Network would be terrible for the program and for recruiting. That is something that would definitely need to be worked out, games on CBS sports could really hurt.

That is very true. I would guess that the MWC could get a pretty lucrative deal with ESPN if they can add Gonzaga. It would be interesting to know when the CBS sports deal is up.

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 06:36 AM
"Because the Zags would be throwing in with a collective of large state universities – though not necessarily all prestigious, flagship institutions – plus a service academy, odd new bedfellows indeed. Plus there’s that football thing, which the Zags don’t have."

These are glaring problems to my eye. I know there is a lot of desire among fans to give the WCC the middle finger but I would proceed with extreme caution.

Is 10 years of giving them a chance to step up their game not enough "extreme caution"?

caldwellzag
03-01-2018, 06:37 AM
That is very true. I would guess that the MWC could get a pretty lucrative deal with ESPN if they can add Gonzaga. It would be interesting to know when the CBS sports deal is up.

We would want this same kind of deal to join the Mountain West (as BSU football).

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/mountain-west-nears-seven-year-116-million-media-rights-deal/

TexasZagFan
03-01-2018, 06:39 AM
They've had 10 years to get their act together, instead they've chosen to be Gonzaga welfare dependent. GU should claim all of the other WCC schools, save SMC as dependents on their taxes.

Not disagreeing with you at all. I think Roth and Few are simply fed up, and have finally convinced Thayne it’s time to go.

I’m not worried about any potential academic “stigma” from leaving the WCC. During the vast majority of my job interviews in Texas, no one had ever heard of GU, except for maybe the last few years. On the few occasions it came up, I spoke of the excellent education I received there, and how we were taught to be independent thinkers, and how my sole accounting professor for over 30 hours never used numbers.

Maybe I should have left out the “independent thinking” part...lol.

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 06:39 AM
"Because the Zags would be throwing in with a collective of large state universities – though not necessarily all prestigious, flagship institutions – plus a service academy, odd new bedfellows indeed. Plus there’s that football thing, which the Zags don’t have."

These are glaring problems to my eye. I know there is a lot of desire among fans to give the WCC the middle finger but I would proceed with extreme caution.

you conveniently ignored this part of the article:

But here’s the thing: It’s clear that from an athletic standpoint – that is to say, a basketball standpoint – Gonzaga and the rest of the WCC are no longer like-minded at all, and that may go even for Saint Mary’s, regardless of its ascension into prominence.

It’s reflected in budgets, resources, ambition, scheduling and commitment.

It’s very much OK if other WCC schools don’t want to go in on basketball the same way; you make your own priorities. But it’s not OK to fund, say, field hockey at Pacific on money Gonzaga earns going to the Final Four. Or to make the Zags essentially pick up the tab for the conference office.

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 06:40 AM
We would want this same kind of deal to join the Mountain West (as BSU football).

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/mountain-west-nears-seven-year-116-million-media-rights-deal/

And we'll get it too.

TexasZagFan
03-01-2018, 06:43 AM
you conveniently ignored this part of the article:

But here’s the thing: It’s clear that from an athletic standpoint – that is to say, a basketball standpoint – Gonzaga and the rest of the WCC are no longer like-minded at all, and that may go even for Saint Mary’s, regardless of its ascension into prominence.

It’s reflected in budgets, resources, ambition, scheduling and commitment.

It’s very much OK if other WCC schools don’t want to go in on basketball the same way; you make your own priorities. But it’s not OK to fund, say, field hockey at Pacific on money Gonzaga earns going to the Final Four. Or to make the Zags essentially pick up the tab for the conference office.

Field hockey? Damn, I thought it was limited to the swimming programs...I’m really PO’ed now! :lmao:

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-01-2018, 06:43 AM
There has got to be a change to the TV deal then. Going from ESPN 15 times a year to CBS Sports Network would be terrible for the program and for recruiting. That is something that would definitely need to be worked out, games on CBS sports could really hurt.

From the Article.... "The realignment talk also makes sense from the real driver of collegiate sports: television. The Mountain West’s TV rights contract with CBS and ESPN expires after the 2019-20 season."

I'd assume a move like this would give them a lot more bargaining power too.

Hoopaholic
03-01-2018, 06:45 AM
I just feel bad for St Marys......what are they going to do with their scheduling if the Zags leave the WCC? ;)

probably wont care as they will think they will be auto top dog and get an auto bid each year

While I think SMC would be a good fit to migrate to the MWC after last night I had a dream where Randy B told his board that he refuses to travel outside of california therefore the MWC was not an option

jazzdelmar
03-01-2018, 06:47 AM
Just do it!

TexasZagFan
03-01-2018, 06:47 AM
From the Article.... "The realignment talk also makes sense from the real driver of collegiate sports: television. The Mountain West’s TV rights contract with CBS and ESPN expires after the 2019-20 season."

I'd assume a move like this would give them a lot more bargaining power too.

Zags are striking while the iron is hot. Only a couple of conference tournaments take place this week, this subject will fill a lot of air time. Well played by GU.

75Zag
03-01-2018, 06:49 AM
There has got to be a change to the TV deal then. Going from ESPN 15 times a year to CBS Sports Network would be terrible for the program and for recruiting. That is something that would definitely need to be worked out, games on CBS sports could really hurt.

I share your concern re: ESPN and television exposure opportunities for GU, but it seems 100% certain that ESPN will be slashing its TV commitments to all of the smaller conferences as existing contracts expire. They are losing subscribers by the tens (hundreds?) of thousands and have been laying off staff continuously for the past year and even with all those cuts ESPN is still dragging down the earnings of their parent company Disney. I see a GU move to the MWC being as much about television market consolidation and realignment as it is about the continuing failure of WCC programs to commit to expand their own BB programs.

Go Bulldogs!

TexasZagFan
03-01-2018, 06:51 AM
probably wont care as they will think they will be auto top dog and get an auto bid each year

While I think SMC would be a good fit to migrate to the MWC after last night I had a dream where Randy B told his board that he refuses to travel outside of california therefore the MWC was not an option

Personally, I don’t think SMC is a good fit with the MWC. They’re a nice little program with no facilities and no national brand, not even a regional brand, mainly due to their not playing anyone in OOC play.

TexasZagFan
03-01-2018, 06:53 AM
I share your concern re: ESPN and television exposure opportunities for GU, but it seems 100% certain that ESPN will be slashing its TV commitments to all of the smaller conferences as existing contracts expire. They are losing subscribers by the tens (hundreds?) of thousands and have been laying off staff continuously for the past year and even with all those cuts ESPN is still dragging down the earnings of their parent company Disney. I see a GU move to the MWC being as much about television market consolidation and realignment as it is about the continuing failure of WCC programs to commit to expand their own BB programs.

Go Bulldogs!

It’s abundantly clear to me that ESPN’s focus is on the NBA and P5 hoops.

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 06:55 AM
all the talk is about a bigger share of the revenue WE bring in.

Well, what about the MWC revenue they bring for football -- we would also receive???

Being the so-called "Sugar Daddy" for so many years is tiring. Sometimes its nice when the Wife takes a part-time job to pay for the overhead expenses, or hell, even cooks dinner from time to time.

Point is, we would receive WAAYYYYYYY more revenue in turn from the MWC, just from their football affiliation alone.

The only downside to this, especially short term (next 10 yrs or so), is the fact these are no faith based institutions, or even upper level academic ones. That's a pretty minor "con" in the bigger picture.

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 06:58 AM
also, its not just Gonzaga they are inviting.

Something to consider.

They want to expand by at least (4) teams -- hoping they kick out SJSU -- so very curious who and what Universities?

I've heard Grand Canyon, but that's it. GCU has facilities that rival most P5 schools. Practice arenas, beautiful game arenas, athletics center, etc etc. All brand new and big too.

caldwellzag
03-01-2018, 06:59 AM
I have not read every reply in this thread, so if someone else said this I am sorry. Think about the recruiting implications that this could have. Go from a weak league to a league that was ranked number 1 by RPI just a few short years back. Timing of the release of information is interesting, as Jordan Brown's recruitment is getting close to a decision and we could of just added games at Fresno, San Jose St, Nevada, and San Diego St to our schedule. With UCLA basically falling off the recruiting trail yesterday with O'Neill, and Cal??? now being the favorite I think this move might give us some leverage with Brown and we may quickly become the favorites (although he never visited). I just don't buy the St. John's or Cal arguemnts, heck I see ULL as a more natural place due to his dad going there.

I know this is probably a huge stretch, but timing is everything and the release of this made me think maybe it's our last ditch effort to get him to sign.

willandi
03-01-2018, 07:02 AM
The only downside to this, especially short term (next 10 yrs or so), is the fact these are no faith based institutions, or even upper level academic ones. That's a pretty minor "con" in the bigger picture.

And yet, at the start and end of almost every game, whether football or basketball, most of the fans are praying that they win!

billyberu
03-01-2018, 07:13 AM
I hear the mission argument a lot when talking about conference changes but what does that really have to do with anything? The conference that GU is in has no bearing on what GU does academically and is purely focused on sports which I would argue the MWC even with its focus on football still cares more about it “other” sports than do any of the other WCC teams (there are some exceptions to this). In terms of basketball, the MWC is closer to what Gonzaga is trying to accomplish.

In terms of fans, the WCC is dead. Outside of Gonzaga and BYU nobody goes to the other match-ups. Even when Gonzaga plays the fans are non-existent, it has actually regressed a ton since the beginning of the run. To be honest, it is so boring watching WCC games because of the terrible teams and the poor fan-bases. If there is an animosity between us and the MWC schools that is all the more fun to watch – just look at the BYU rivalry we have now. These other teams actually have fan-bases that care about their basketball teams and will be amped to watch GU play them and that will be a great sight to see.

The not being a step-up I completely disagree with especially if they were to add BYU back and even if they didn’t the potential is far greater in the MWC than it ever will be in the WCC. The fact is that most of the WCC schools just won’t invest in their programs. I have more faith in UNLV, New Mexico, and San Diego St. returning to relevancy than I do with WCC finally caring about their programs. Nevada with Musselman and a retooled MWC is going to be really good for a long-time, Boise St. is on the rise and I think Leon can keep building that program up, and I think 4 – 9 on the below Kenpom rankings could have an outside shot at top 50 most years. Utah State was a really fun game this year and I enjoyed it more than all of the bottom dweller WCC games.

Not that I need any more reasons than more exciting basketball but our recruiting will go up as well as a result of playing better teams in actual college level facilities.

Gonzaga - 7
Nevada - 24
Boise St – 52
San Diego St – 60
Fresno St. – 70
BYU - 75
UNLV – 88
Wyoming – 112
New Mexico – 117
Utah St. – 145
Colorado St. – 214+1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

zagdontzig
03-01-2018, 07:33 AM
The problem is that a couple of years ago, the MWC was given a league wide directive to focus more and more on being a football conference. My dad works for UNM athletics. He knows. Almost every team in the league has had significant money taken away from its basketball programs. UNM ended up hiring a coach to replace Noodles that cost a fraction of his salary. This is part of the reason why most consider the MWC to be a one bid league if Nevada wins the tourney. It just isn't the basketball league it used to be. Also, the MWC has made their living in the past from gaming the RPI. As the NCAA moves more towards a performance metric system....how will the MWC adapt?

You would be surprised by how much Gonzaga's players enjoy visiting the Bay Area, Los Angeles, San Diego and Portland for their road trips during league play. Especially in the dead of winter. These are key recruiting cities as well. The GU assistants often recruit on road trips. Travel is very, very easy in and out of L.A., the Oakland Airport, etc. The convenience of all this is not worth junking to gain a few spots in the RPI.

I would rather have Gonzaga games on ESPN than the CBS College Sports Network, which gets dreadful ratings. Also, by being in the WCC, Gonzaga is able to have a multiple million buck TV contract of its own w/ Root Sports. The 15 games that ESPN doesn't want go to Root, and GU keeps all that money. Those games would likely go to the Mountain Network and the profits shared with terrible basketball programs like San Jose State if GU joined the MWC.

Spending time in San Francisco and Malibu is a lot more appealing than -20 Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO. If the MWC had more of a basketball focus, and was trending upwards, I might consider it. Right now, all they care about is football. I saw two games at the renovated Pit in December, and UNM just isn't what it used to be folks. I'm just not sure there is that much to be gained by going to the MWC. Ten years ago?? Different story.

you're getting some love over at BYU's board...

https://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=19428633

hockeyzag
03-01-2018, 07:43 AM
I hear the mission argument a lot when talking about conference changes but what does that really have to do with anything? The conference that GU is in has no bearing on what GU does academically and is purely focused on sports which I would argue the MWC even with its focus on football still cares more about it “other” sports than do any of the other WCC teams (there are some exceptions to this). In terms of basketball, the MWC is closer to what Gonzaga is trying to accomplish.

In terms of fans, the WCC is dead. Outside of Gonzaga and BYU nobody goes to the other match-ups. Even when Gonzaga plays the fans are non-existent, it has actually regressed a ton since the beginning of the run. To be honest, it is so boring watching WCC games because of the terrible teams and the poor fan-bases. If there is an animosity between us and the MWC schools that is all the more fun to watch – just look at the BYU rivalry we have now. These other teams actually have fan-bases that care about their basketball teams and will be amped to watch GU play them and that will be a great sight to see.

The not being a step-up I completely disagree with especially if they were to add BYU back and even if they didn’t the potential is far greater in the MWC than it ever will be in the WCC. The fact is that most of the WCC schools just won’t invest in their programs. I have more faith in UNLV, New Mexico, and San Diego St. returning to relevancy than I do with WCC finally caring about their programs. Nevada with Musselman and a retooled MWC is going to be really good for a long-time, Boise St. is on the rise and I think Leon can keep building that program up, and I think 4 – 9 on the below Kenpom rankings could have an outside shot at top 50 most years. Utah State was a really fun game this year and I enjoyed it more than all of the bottom dweller WCC games.

Not that I need any more reasons than more exciting basketball but our recruiting will go up as well as a result of playing better teams in actual college level facilities.

Gonzaga - 7
Nevada - 24
Boise St – 52
San Diego St – 60
Fresno St. – 70
BYU - 75
UNLV – 88
Wyoming – 112
New Mexico – 117
Utah St. – 145
Colorado St. – 214

This all day

Bouldin4Prez
03-01-2018, 07:58 AM
Overall, I like the move. However, a move to the MWC also probably means our NCAA tournament streak ends sooner rather than later. A down year in the MWC equals a missed tournament, as we won't win the conference tournament every year.

I watch 95% of Zag games but from January to the WCC tournament, there are only 4 games I'm truly invested in (BYU and SMC), so having two fun games a week from start to finish of conference play would be a welcome addition.

ZagsObserver
03-01-2018, 08:05 AM
Overall, I like the move. However, a move to the MWC also probably means our NCAA tournament streak ends sooner rather than later. A down year in the MWC equals a missed tournament, as we won't win the conference tournament every year.

I watch 95% of Zag games but from January to the WCC tournament, there are only 4 games I'm truly invested in (BYU and SMC), so having two fun games a week from start to finish of conference play would be a welcome addition.

Hasn’t stopped duke’s streak. Might get a bit better recruits too.

Birddog
03-01-2018, 08:07 AM
A few points stick out to me after reading all this.

Don't you guys sleep?

Are you all retired or self employed? or are you all stealing time from your employers?

I would think that if the MWC expands, it will be by one, three, or five (non football), unless there is an easy way to kick out a member. I'll take a WAG and say that BYU, GCU and Gonzaga are the prime candidates. NMSU and UTEP are possible but i don't know if their quality of football would pass the test.

A switch to the MWC would only create one orphan sport by my count, Womens Oaring. I would bet that the WCC would let them stay for that sport even though a few years back when there were rumblings of GU leaving the commish said "all or none".

TV rights and $$$ is HUGE in these talks, it can't be overstated, and the intricacies of working it out under present contracts and future possibilities would be quite a labyrinth to negotiate, but that is why the Commishes make the big $$.

I have long believed that "a rising tide floats all boats", but for at least ten years most of the boats have huge holes in their hulls. Enough is enough. Even if the other WCC schools made an effort to improve, how long before results are apparent. Do we even know just how much effort other WCC member schools have made to improve their programs? There is a chicken and egg dilemma in the facilities vs improved play on the court.

I'm pleased that Gonzaga is exploring other possibilities and the timing of this news was no coincidence, though i don't think this is a done deal.

Coach Crazy
03-01-2018, 08:09 AM
Here are my qualms:

The conference from an RPI perspective is not much better than the WCC. Yes, there are better rankings, but those Top 100's are on the cusp, and a quadrant is a quadrant, no matter you slice it. Wyoming, Fresno State, and San Diego State can go to 150's level teams overnight. As has already been stated, I would not even listen to an argument for this conference if ESPN tv deal is not a part of it. As well, I just don't see the brand of the Mountain West Conference really being much of an advantage.

Having said all that:

If we do go, it sounds like we get a better TV deal, we get better profit sharing, and most teams in that conference are actually going to invest in their programs. As well, no more high school gyms (unless SMC goes too) and you probably get up to play more of these teams. Also, big fan of the pod divisions idea. If it allows us to add a few more OOC games and further assist our numbers, then fantastic.

Yesterday, I was a 'No'. Today? I am actually very much in favor of going after reviewing the reasoning on this board. I do have one caveat: No SMC.

Zag_Dad
03-01-2018, 08:12 AM
These are exciting times for Gonzaga. The idea that we could move on to another conference is something that his been the subject of great debate over the years on this board. Sometimes I wonder whether it's a smart move though? Is the grass always greener? Isn't the current system working just fine for us now? If Mark Few took the same approach, he would also leave GU for a bigger conference, more lucrative deal.

I don't know what the answer is. I love seeing GU win. I love seeing them play on National TV. I love seeing them receive recognition as a basketball powerhouse program. I love seeing them make deep run in the NCAA tournament and have a shot at national championship.

Aren't we doing all of that now? Why would life be better in a different conference?

I'll still love being a Zag fan if we move and certainty won't question the wisdom of Mike Roth or Few if that's the direction we go, but I don't think it's a tragedy if we stay ion WCC and continue with our winning recipe. Maybe the others will step up (I know, I know... they've had more than a decade to do that.)

strikenowhere
03-01-2018, 08:13 AM
Do people realize that while the RPI strength of the two conferences are similar, if you were to take the Zags and move them that there would all of a sudden be a huge disparity between the two leagues? Even moreso if BYU and/or St. Mary's jumped ship. Right now the average strength of each league are close to each other.

Goshzagit
03-01-2018, 08:38 AM
Here are my qualms:

The conference from an RPI perspective is not much better than the WCC.

you are right.

In the past 6 seasons, WCC has finished AHEAD of MWC 3 of the 6 years.

However, before BYU joined WCC, MWC finished Top-7 for 4 or 5 consecutive seasons. On par, if not higher than their rival West Conference, Pac-12.

In 2010, they were a Top-3 RPI conference, ranking ahead of Big 12, ACC, Pac-12, SEC, etc.

Again, those Top-7 years were with BYU.

Now...as it currently stands, MWC isn't much better from an RPI perspective. Definitely higher revenue, but not rankings, not much. Their bottom is as bad as our bottom, but their middle of the pack is wayyyyy better than our middle of the pack.

Point is, imagine IF Gonzaga and BYU -- two perennial Top-50 RPI teams (Gonzaga Top-25) -- were to be added to their Conference?

They would jump at least 2 spots, if not significantly higher. Regaining a Top 7 spot right beside the Big 10, even ahead of the AAC, as they've been in many seasons (most seasons with BYU).

We need to think how much our allegiance would propel them.

I like the fact MWC wants to grow and build their brand. Compete with the changing landscape. This strategy alone intrigues me to them.

former1dog
03-01-2018, 08:39 AM
Overall, I like the move. However, a move to the MWC also probably means our NCAA tournament streak ends sooner rather than later. A down year in the MWC equals a missed tournament, as we won't win the conference tournament every year.

I watch 95% of Zag games but from January to the WCC tournament, there are only 4 games I'm truly invested in (BYU and SMC), so having two fun games a week from start to finish of conference play would be a welcome addition.

Yeah, I don't agree with your logic.

Coach Crazy
03-01-2018, 08:46 AM
Yeah, I don't agree with your logic.

Same here. I don't see them losing much more than they do now. If we buy into KenPom, Sagarin and BPI this team might lose 1 or 2 more? But you're also talking about more games where they aren't simply yawning through the matchup. Being challenged a bit more probably evens things out.

Zagdawg
03-01-2018, 08:48 AM
@kylajoco
2h2 hours ago
More Kyla Jo Colliton Retweeted Nigel Williams-Goss
Ahhh if they cut the WCC before I go to Vegas senior year I will riot... but go zags baby!

Nigel Williams-Goss‏Verified account
@NigelWG5
Following Following @NigelWG5
More
Replying to @kylajoco
Mountain West conference tourney is in Vegas also lol

former1dog
03-01-2018, 08:50 AM
These are exciting times for Gonzaga. The idea that we could move on to another conference is something that his been the subject of great debate over the years on this board. Sometimes I wonder whether it's a smart move though? Is the grass always greener? Isn't the current system working just fine for us now? If Mark Few took the same approach, he would also leave GU for a bigger conference, more lucrative deal.

I don't know what the answer is. I love seeing GU win. I love seeing them play on National TV. I love seeing them receive recognition as a basketball powerhouse program. I love seeing them make deep run in the NCAA tournament and have a shot at national championship.

Aren't we doing all of that now? Why would life be better in a different conference?

I'll still love being a Zag fan if we move and certainty won't question the wisdom of Mike Roth or Few if that's the direction we go, but I don't think it's a tragedy if we stay ion WCC and continue with our winning recipe. Maybe the others will step up (I know, I know... they've had more than a decade to do that.)

I think the risk in staying in the WCC without a significant improvement (heck, even with a significant improvement) is that Gonzaga risks being left behind because of the NCAA increasing drift in favoring Big Conferences in the NCAA tournament.

gonstu
03-01-2018, 08:54 AM
I think the risk in staying in the WCC without a significant improvement (heck, even with a significant improvement) is that Gonzaga risks being left behind because of the NCAA increasing drift in favoring Big Conferences in the NCAA tournament.

This is the biggest reason to consider moving on.

What was the context behind the move from the Big Sky to WCC?

former1dog
03-01-2018, 08:58 AM
This is the biggest reason to consider moving on.

What was the context behind the move from the Big Sky to WCC?

Interestingly enough, I think it did have to do with coming together with like minded institutions, but that was a different time.

I'm really interested in hear from Reborn. I don't think GU was in the Big Sky in his era and want to know if we were affiliated with a conference and if he has any insight into why and why we switched to the Big Sky.

willandi
03-01-2018, 09:00 AM
It’s abundantly clear to me that ESPN’s focus is on the NBA and P5 hoops.

I wonder if Root sports would be interested in teaming with the MWC?

MileHigh
03-01-2018, 09:01 AM
A MWC with Gonzaga and BYU is much better than a WCC with Gonzaga and BYU. Not even debatable. Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State, Colorado State, Boise State, Fresno State, UNLV, Utah State, Air Force have all, at one time or another in the past dozen or so years made it to the dance.

How many teams (other than GU and SMU) in WCC can say that?

DixieZag
03-01-2018, 09:02 AM
A lot of persuasive reasoning here.

This season has been so emblematic of the WCC's troubles. We thought Pepp was getting good and would re-do facilities, they're now worse than ever. LMU has gone backwards from Max (who everyone liked), USF hasn't gained ground that I see, Portland stepped back .... ironic that of all our conference brethren, it's Pacific that could make the best case for stating "We're doing as we promised, made a bold move, got a good coach, have a real team ..."

Another irony, that BYU might well go with us, even though I see their program as going in the wrong direction, too. I think they've progressively slid despite never not coming in 3rd (that I recall). I think they were closer to "1 and 2" when they first got here than now.

The WCC has never been worse IMO. But, has the MWC ever been worse, either? It's encouraging that they're approaching us in an attempt to do something, yet we're certainly engaged with them at the low end of their cycle, that's for certain.

Something has to be done. I doubt anyone cares more about GU bb than me, but I confess to not having even turned on half our conference games this year. That's pretty bad. The season is short enough. When you have 10-14 CONFERENCE games that are just meaningless, that's pretty sad.

I don't like giving up the "small Catholic conference, good academics" affiliation of most of the WCC, but it's really tiresome seeing all that cash, see other conferences work with schools that bring in so much, and have the WCC do nothing.

former1dog
03-01-2018, 09:04 AM
A MWC with Gonzaga and BYU is much better than a WCC with Gonzaga and BYU. Not even debatable. Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State, Colorado State, Boise State, Fresno State, UNLV, Utah State, Air Force have all, at one time or another in the past dozen or so years made it to the dance.

How many teams (other than GU and SMU) in WCC can say that?

San Diego and BYU, since you asked. But, I don't think BYU made it as a member of the WCC, have they?

Bouldin4Prez
03-01-2018, 09:05 AM
Same here. I don't see them losing much more than they do now. If we buy into KenPom, Sagarin and BPI this team might lose 1 or 2 more? But you're also talking about more games where they aren't simply yawning through the matchup. Being challenged a bit more probably evens things out.

I'm not talking about his year's team. We have had many teams throughout the years that would not have made the NCCA tournament without winning the WCC tourny. My point is that it will be much harder on those down years to get into the tournament than it has been in the WCC.

Say something crazy happens and we lose the four of JW3, Silas, Tillie and Rui. Looking at our squad for next year sans those four, we have a squad that could lose 10 games on the season if they moved to the MWC. Is the RPI jump/quality wins/SoS bump enough to overcome that? I'm not sure, but I would feel a lot more comfortable with a bubble squad going into the WCC tournament than the MWC tournament.

former1dog
03-01-2018, 09:06 AM
Something has to be done. I doubt anyone cares more about GU bb than me, but I confess to not having even turned on half our conference games this year. That's pretty bad. The season is short enough. When you have 10-14 CONFERENCE games that are just meaningless, that's pretty sad.


DUDE!?!?!?!?!?

DixieZag
03-01-2018, 09:09 AM
DUDE!?!?!?!?!?

I know.

(Extends wrists)

willandi
03-01-2018, 09:11 AM
I'm not talking about his year's team. We have had many teams throughout the years that would not have made the NCCA tournament without winning the WCC tourny. My point is that it will be much harder on those down years to get into the tournament than it has been in the WCC.

Say something crazy happens and we lose the four of JW3, Silas, Tillie and Rui. Looking at our squad for next year sans those four, we have a squad that could lose 10 games on the season if they moved to the MWC. Is the RPI jump/quality wins/SoS bump enough to overcome that? I'm not sure, but I would feel a lot more comfortable with a bubble squad going into the WCC tournament than the MWC tournament.

I know! It would be unfathomable, like losing NWG, Karno, Collins and Mathews! It could never happen!

scrooner
03-01-2018, 09:14 AM
I doubt anyone cares more about GU bb than me, but I confess to not having even turned on half our conference games this year.

Um. It sounds like a lot of people care more about GU bb than you, ha ha.

DixieZag
03-01-2018, 09:15 AM
Um. It sounds like a lot of people care more about GU bb than you, ha ha.

Perhaps poorly phrased. :)

caldwellzag
03-01-2018, 09:17 AM
I'm not talking about his year's team. We have had many teams throughout the years that would not have made the NCCA tournament without winning the WCC tourny. My point is that it will be much harder on those down years to get into the tournament than it has been in the WCC.

Say something crazy happens and we lose the four of JW3, Silas, Tillie and Rui. Looking at our squad for next year sans those four, we have a squad that could lose 10 games on the season if they moved to the MWC. Is the RPI jump/quality wins/SoS bump enough to overcome that? I'm not sure, but I would feel a lot more comfortable with a bubble squad going into the WCC tournament than the MWC tournament.

Even with losing those 4 (doubt we lose all 4) we will still compete and probably win the MWC. With Clarke and Filip coming in next year, I don't see a drop off. Our recruiting is getting better recruits each year and this will help bring some 5 star guys our way. UNLV gets 5 star guys in the MWC from time to time and compare us to them!

Hoopaholic
03-01-2018, 09:18 AM
Even with losing those 4 (doubt we lose all 4) we will still compete and probably win the MWC. With Clarke and Filip coming in next year, I don't see a drop off. Our recruiting is getting better recruits each year and this will help bring some 5 star guys our way. UNLV gets 5 star guys in the MWC from time to time and compare us to them!

and I strongly suspect that the MWC would not be a single bid league with us in it

basketballzag
03-01-2018, 09:18 AM
Gonzaga is leaving the WCC Conference as there is absolutely no financial & business rationale to stay in the WCC. The fact that the MWC spoke out publicly on this is enough to say the deal has been cut.

First, The WCC has an interim Commissioner who does not inspire any confidence and is praying to keep her job. https://www.spreaker.com/user/broadwaymedia/connie-hurlbut-2-28-18?utm_medium=widget&utm_source=user%3A4650595&utm_term=episode_title and its clear she realizes that Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and BYU are leaving after the tournament.

Secondly, the TV contract will wind up eliminating the WCC as a televised conference on ESPN. ESPN is heavily involved in this move for both conferences. ESPN doesn't want the MWC or the ratings darlings to go to Fox either. MWC would in all likelihood take over the WCC time slots on ESPN.

Third, as the Power 5 continue to add in-conference games it significantly knee caps Gonzaga going forward in the future.

Fourth, Wichita State is only a basketball & Olympic sports only member of the AAC. Just something to think about because the buy-out to add them would be minuscule.

Fifth, the additional revenue could be used to build a new larger basketball arena on GUs campus which is needed due to the public demand for tickets. If Gonzaga were to add another 3k seats it would equate to another 75k paid seats a year. Creighton's stadium averages 17,412 people per game versus Gonzaga's average of 6k. Getting rid of the financial albatross of subsidizing everyone else would allow Gonzaga to really invest not only in the program but into other sports which translates into more students as well. At the time the new arena made sense but into today's environment we have not only outgrown the WCC but we have outgrown the basketball arena too.

Look forward to watching Gonzaga versus Boise State or Nevada or SDSU next year instead of Pepperdine.

Bogozags
03-01-2018, 09:20 AM
I wonder if Root sports would be interested in teaming with the MWC?

Root already does MWC games or at least they advertise they do over and over again during each TV timeout of all our games that Root broadcasts...so Heister, Dan and Fox could still do out games :)

caldwellzag
03-01-2018, 09:21 AM
and I strongly suspect that the MWC would not be a single bid league with us in it

100% agree. It's a 3-4 bid league with us, as we will help raise the RPI of the conference and our opponents. It probably would be the best league out West.

Birddog
03-01-2018, 09:26 AM
This is the biggest reason to consider moving on.

What was the context behind the move from the Big Sky to WCC?

Gonzaga was a founding member of the Big Sky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Sky_Conference

Initially conceived for basketball,[1] the Big Sky was founded 55 years ago in 1963 with six members in four states;[2][3] four of the charter members have been in the league from its founding, and a fifth returned in 2014 after an 18-year absence.

The name "Big Sky" came from the popular 1947 western novel by A. B. Guthrie Jr.; it was proposed by Harry Missildine, a sports columnist of the Spokesman-Review just prior to the founding meetings of the conference in Spokane in February 1963,[4][5] and was adopted with the announcement of the new conference five days later.[2][3]

Starting in 1968, the conference competed at the highest level (university division) in all sports except football (college division). The sole exception was Idaho, in the university division for football through 1977 (except 1967, 1968).[6]

In 1974, half of the Big Sky's ten sports were dropped (baseball, skiing, swimming, golf, and tennis), leaving football, basketball, wrestling, track, and cross country.[7][8]

Women's sports were added 29 years ago in 1988, moving from the women's-only Mountain West Athletic Conference (1982–88).

Fiftieth anni

Coach Crazy
03-01-2018, 09:30 AM
Gonzaga is leaving the WCC Conference as there is absolutely no financial & business rationale to stay in the WCC. The fact that the MWC spoke out publicly on this is enough to say the deal has been cut.

First, The WCC has an interim Commissioner who does not inspire any confidence and is praying to keep her job. https://www.spreaker.com/user/broadwaymedia/connie-hurlbut-2-28-18?utm_medium=widget&utm_source=user%3A4650595&utm_term=episode_title and its clear she realizes that Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and BYU are leaving after the tournament.

Secondly, the TV contract will wind up eliminating the WCC as a televised conference on ESPN. ESPN is heavily involved in this move for both conferences. ESPN doesn't want the MWC or the ratings darlings to go to Fox either. MWC would in all likelihood take over the WCC time slots on ESPN.

Third, as the Power 5 continue to add in-conference games it significantly knee caps Gonzaga going forward in the future.

Fourth, Wichita State is only a basketball & Olympic sports only member of the AAC. Just something to think about because the buy-out to add them would be minuscule.

Fifth, the additional revenue could be used to build a new larger basketball arena on GUs campus which is needed due to the public demand for tickets. If Gonzaga were to add another 3k seats it would equate to another 75k paid seats a year. Creighton's stadium averages 17,412 people per game versus Gonzaga's average of 6k. Getting rid of the financial albatross of subsidizing everyone else would allow Gonzaga to really invest not only in the program but into other sports which translates into more students as well. At the time the new arena made sense but into today's environment we have not only outgrown the WCC but we have outgrown the basketball arena too.

Look forward to watching Gonzaga versus Boise State or Nevada or SDSU next year instead of Pepperdine.

You just Mozgov'd this topic. Bravo.

Bouldin4Prez
03-01-2018, 09:30 AM
Even with losing those 4 (doubt we lose all 4) we will still compete and probably win the MWC. With Clarke and Filip coming in next year, I don't see a drop off. Our recruiting is getting better recruits each year and this will help bring some 5 star guys our way. UNLV gets 5 star guys in the MWC from time to time and compare us to them!

I'm not actively rooting for Gonzaga to miss the tournament. Just pointing out that Gonzaga has had down years in the past and if they have them in the future, it will be more difficult to make the NCAA tournament. Every year, the goal is to win the national championship. Making the tournament every year, which we have for the last 20 years, at least gives you a shot to win the whole thing.

former1dog
03-01-2018, 09:32 AM
You just Mozgov'd this topic. Bravo.

Que?

caldwellzag
03-01-2018, 09:35 AM
I'm not actively rooting for Gonzaga to miss the tournament. Just pointing out that Gonzaga has had down years in the past and if they have them in the future, it will be more difficult to make the NCAA tournament. Every year, the goal is to win the national championship. Making the tournament every year, which we have for the last 20 years, at least gives you a shot to win the whole thing.

I agree with the fact the Zags have had down years and it might be a little more difficult, but I personally think a move to the MWC will help us in the long run to continue that streak.

Coach Crazy
03-01-2018, 09:35 AM
Que?

Blake Griffin dunk face on Timofy Mozgov. It was epically embarrassing for Mozgov. BBZ was Blake Griffin in that analogy.

former1dog
03-01-2018, 09:38 AM
Blake Griffin dunk face on Timofy Mozgov. It was epically embarrassing for Mozgov. BBZ was Blake Griffin in that analogy.

Gotcha, thanks.

Hey, I'll send you a PM but do you have any insight into best development clubs in greater SLC for little guys in basketball?

DixieZag
03-01-2018, 09:43 AM
Gonzaga is leaving the WCC Conference as there is absolutely no financial & business rationale to stay in the WCC. The fact that the MWC spoke out publicly on this is enough to say the deal has been cut.

First, The WCC has an interim Commissioner who does not inspire any confidence and is praying to keep her job. https://www.spreaker.com/user/broadwaymedia/connie-hurlbut-2-28-18?utm_medium=widget&utm_source=user%3A4650595&utm_term=episode_title and its clear she realizes that Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and BYU are leaving after the tournament.

Secondly, the TV contract will wind up eliminating the WCC as a televised conference on ESPN. ESPN is heavily involved in this move for both conferences. ESPN doesn't want the MWC or the ratings darlings to go to Fox either. MWC would in all likelihood take over the WCC time slots on ESPN.

Third, as the Power 5 continue to add in-conference games it significantly knee caps Gonzaga going forward in the future.

Fourth, Wichita State is only a basketball & Olympic sports only member of the AAC. Just something to think about because the buy-out to add them would be minuscule.

Fifth, the additional revenue could be used to build a new larger basketball arena on GUs campus which is needed due to the public demand for tickets. If Gonzaga were to add another 3k seats it would equate to another 75k paid seats a year. Creighton's stadium averages 17,412 people per game versus Gonzaga's average of 6k. Getting rid of the financial albatross of subsidizing everyone else would allow Gonzaga to really invest not only in the program but into other sports which translates into more students as well. At the time the new arena made sense but into today's environment we have not only outgrown the WCC but we have outgrown the basketball arena too.

Look forward to watching Gonzaga versus Boise State or Nevada or SDSU next year instead of Pepperdine.

GU, BYU AND SMC????

bdmiller7
03-01-2018, 09:55 AM
GU, BYU, and SMC with GCU and NMSU out of the WAC. 14 football schools and 16 for all sports. The WCC isnt going to get any better and there aren't any additions out there to add to make it better. MWC seems like the best option for now.

ZagsObserver
03-01-2018, 09:57 AM
Gonzaga is leaving the WCC Conference as there is absolutely no financial & business rationale to stay in the WCC. The fact that the MWC spoke out publicly on this is enough to say the deal has been cut.

First, The WCC has an interim Commissioner who does not inspire any confidence and is praying to keep her job. https://www.spreaker.com/user/broadwaymedia/connie-hurlbut-2-28-18?utm_medium=widget&utm_source=user%3A4650595&utm_term=episode_title and its clear she realizes that Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and BYU are leaving after the tournament.

Secondly, the TV contract will wind up eliminating the WCC as a televised conference on ESPN. ESPN is heavily involved in this move for both conferences. ESPN doesn't want the MWC or the ratings darlings to go to Fox either. MWC would in all likelihood take over the WCC time slots on ESPN.

Third, as the Power 5 continue to add in-conference games it significantly knee caps Gonzaga going forward in the future.

Fourth, Wichita State is only a basketball & Olympic sports only member of the AAC. Just something to think about because the buy-out to add them would be minuscule.

Fifth, the additional revenue could be used to build a new larger basketball arena on GUs campus which is needed due to the public demand for tickets. If Gonzaga were to add another 3k seats it would equate to another 75k paid seats a year. Creighton's stadium averages 17,412 people per game versus Gonzaga's average of 6k. Getting rid of the financial albatross of subsidizing everyone else would allow Gonzaga to really invest not only in the program but into other sports which translates into more students as well. At the time the new arena made sense but into today's environment we have not only outgrown the WCC but we have outgrown the basketball arena too.

Look forward to watching Gonzaga versus Boise State or Nevada or SDSU next year instead of Pepperdine.

Things are happening, but I would guess nothing is definitive. Here’s a good read:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseretnews.com/article/865696455/BYUs-Tom-Holmoe-had-been-aware-of-Gonzaga-MWC-talks-surprised-Craig-Thompson-would-discuss-it.amp

Mr Vulture
03-01-2018, 10:00 AM
My only concern with bringing in St Mary's are their garbage facilities, which I think would be a concern for the MWC as well. I would love to keep the rivalry going with them but the HS gym aspect needs to end.

willandi
03-01-2018, 10:06 AM
My only concern with bringing in St Mary's are their garbage facilities, which I think would be a concern for the MWC as well. I would love to keep the rivalry going with them but the HS gym aspect needs to end.

True, but they are close enough to Oakland that perhaps they could use facilities there, or, barring that, there must be some actual High Schools in the area with better facilities. They could lease those until they built an appropriate building...and they would have a good practice gym already built!

ZagsObserver
03-01-2018, 10:08 AM
True, but they are close enough to Oakland that perhaps they could use facilities there, or, barring that, there must be some actual High Schools in the area with better facilities. They could lease those until they built an appropriate building...and they would have a good practice gym already built!

They tried the building campaign thing. It just ended with some new scoreboards and minor improvements. They will absolutely not be building a new arena or be getting significant upgrades. Just the way it is

Bogozags
03-01-2018, 10:08 AM
My only concern with bringing in St Mary's are their garbage facilities, which I think would be a concern for the MWC as well. I would love to keep the rivalry going with them but the HS gym aspect needs to end.

I would think that MWC would pick-up NMSU before taking SMC...

former1dog
03-01-2018, 10:10 AM
I'm not in favor of having SMC join the MWC if we go. They are not committed to growing their basketball program beyond what it is. Bennett is not committed to doing what is necessary schedule wise to get out of GU's shadow.

I would suspect that SMC would likely welcome our departure as it would mean they would perennially be the WCC champions and going to the dance every season.

509er
03-01-2018, 10:11 AM
Hey, maybe Seattle U will finally be able to get back in the WCC.

Coach Crazy
03-01-2018, 10:15 AM
I would think that MWC would pick-up NMSU before taking SMC...

If the plan is 16 teams and 4 pods, then you'd need either both, or someone in SMC's place.

willandi
03-01-2018, 10:20 AM
If the plan is 16 teams and 4 pods, then you'd need either both, or someone in SMC's place.

15 teams and 3 pods? Or even 2 divisions of 7 each.

Bogozags
03-01-2018, 10:23 AM
14 Teams and two divisions...playing 16Bball conference games...would allow each team to schedule two extra OOC games...with NMSU taking UH’s place...

basketballzag
03-01-2018, 10:23 AM
If the plan is 16 teams and 4 pods, then you'd need either both, or someone in SMC's place.


Both of those schools would add value to the MWC from a basketball revenue standpoint as they will help other teams make the tourney even if they don't one year because they have the RPI to help get another team in over someone else.

stevet75
03-01-2018, 10:24 AM
I have trouble imagining SMC moving to the MWC. I don't think they would be willing to upgrade their facilities. As we have been told by several SMC fans that post here, it is almost impossible to increase their attendance at basketball games because SMC is in a difficult location and there is so much else to do in the bay area. However, maybe the administers at SMC think otherwise.

Murphy outgo lifer
03-01-2018, 10:24 AM
In my opinion Gonzaga joining the MWC is a no brainer. Also, the MWC wanting St. Mary's should be a no brainer.

Facilities, in my opinion, are more relevant than the religion and academic arguments to conference affiliation, however, it is only due to its correlation with sustained success. In St. Mary's case they have been the second most preeminent non power 5 conference team on the West Coast for probably the last decade if not more and they have Randy Bennet, their sole reason for success, locked up for another 10 years.

These conference realignments are about TV money, not gate money at venues so the only concern should be about how the match-ups would be viewed going forward. I would argue that GU vs St. Mary's is one of the best rivalries out west if not the best. MWC would be crazy not to want the best mid-major on the west coast.

Whether St. Mary's wants to leave the WCC is another question all together. Despite the sentiments Randy Bennet knows what he is doing.

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 10:25 AM
the complete lack of respect for our Conference scheduling concerns/tweaks over the years have gone on deaf ears (although improved this season).

Many seasons have been a slap in the face to Gonzaga.

Not saying this motivates the move whatsoever, yet certainly didn't help incentive us to stick around, esp with Mark Few making it public in yr's past, and the Commish ignoring us, in a condescending manner to boot.

Coach Crazy
03-01-2018, 10:25 AM
Both of those schools would add value to the MWC from a basketball revenue standpoint as they will help other teams make the tourney even if they don't one year because they have the RPI to help get another team in over someone else.

I don't want SMC, but at this point, if it's what is need to get the job done...then it's something I can look past.

hooter73
03-01-2018, 10:26 AM
Honestly screw SMC. They refuse to schedule and refuse to improve their program and facilities. Let them reap the WCC for it and remain in obscurity.

This cant happen fast enough.

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 10:26 AM
Things are happening, but I would guess nothing is definitive. Here’s a good read:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseretnews.com/article/865696455/BYUs-Tom-Holmoe-had-been-aware-of-Gonzaga-MWC-talks-surprised-Craig-Thompson-would-discuss-it.amp

if bbz said that it's happening, it's happening.

cggonzaga
03-01-2018, 10:27 AM
I wouldn’t assume the same OOC schedule GU currently plays if the league is much tougher.

I disagree. We’d still play anybody anywhere. And it’s still about making the tournament. Joining the MWC just enhances our resume even if we lost 8-10 games in a season. MW would become top 6-7 conference. You have teams in those leagues with 10-12 losses still making the tournament.

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 10:27 AM
I have trouble imagining SMC moving to the MWC. I don't think they would be willing to upgrade their facilities. As we have been told by several SMC fans that post here, it is almost impossible to increase their attendance at basketball games because SMC is in a difficult location and there is so much else to do in the bay area. However, maybe the administers at SMC think otherwise.

as of right now, SMC wasn't one of the schools mentioned in discussion. No idea the (6) schools they reached out to, yet when I've heard Grand Canyon in passing, I think SMC would be mentioned, so leads me to believe they weren't invited. At least not yet...

I have a feeling Wichita St was contacted. They asked to join 2 yrs ago and were denied, since they didn't have football.

Clearly MWC has changed their tune.

With Gonzaga and BYU, we will rival their current Conference, who is having a banner year though.

former1dog
03-01-2018, 10:28 AM
if bbz said that it's happening, it's happening.

I agree that BBZ has a solid track record and his contribution to this thread really made me take it even more seriously. That said, our friend BBZ doesn't have a perfect record of accuracy :)

Bogozags
03-01-2018, 10:30 AM
I don't want SMC, but at this point, if it's what is need to get the job done...then it's something I can look past.

I’m with you on SMC...BUT if the plan is to add basketball schools then SMC might make good business sense; however, if it’s about saving money, then dropping UH and picking up NMSU would be the way to go

SWZag
03-01-2018, 10:43 AM
I think this is a bad idea. I don't like it.

willandi
03-01-2018, 10:55 AM
I have trouble imagining SMC moving to the MWC. I don't think they would be willing to upgrade their facilities. As we have been told by several SMC fans that post here, it is almost impossible to increase their attendance at basketball games because SMC is in a difficult location and there is so much else to do in the bay area. However, maybe the administers at SMC think otherwise.

And yet, San Jose is able to. They aren't all that far apart geographically, so the same problems should exist for each school.

I can see SMC not wanting to, but the WCC would quickly become a 1 bid league, and could even lose that.

basketballzag
03-01-2018, 11:04 AM
That said, our friend BBZ doesn't have a perfect record of accuracy :)

I wholeheartedly agree with you too on this!

Here is my solution if the MWC is demanding that we add Football--Gonzaga can either start a new football program up from scratch or we can just offer the Washington St football team the opportunity to keep losing games yet relocate out of Pullman.

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 11:07 AM
I think this is a bad idea. I don't like it.

Why?

CDC84
03-01-2018, 11:08 AM
Roth has confirmed all of the information about Gonzaga being approached by the MWC. It's been reported in several tweets.

I expect this to be used as a ploy by Few and Roth to get the WCC to change the pay out structure for the NCAA tournament. This is the real thing that is bothering Gonzaga. It's the real thing that they want changed. It's more important to them than changing leagues in an effort to play better competition.

Zagceo
03-01-2018, 11:11 AM
Roth has confirmed all of the information about Gonzaga being approached by the MWC. It's been reported in several tweets.

I expect this to be used as a ploy by Few and Roth to get the WCC to change the pay out structure for the NCAA tournament. This is the real thing that is bothering Gonzaga. It's the real thing that they want changed. It's more important to them than changing leagues in an effort to play better competition.

anybody have a guess on the numbers ...if we did get higher payout? roughly

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 11:15 AM
Roth has confirmed all of the information about Gonzaga being approached by the MWC. It's been reported in several tweets.

I expect this to be used as a ploy by Few and Roth to get the WCC to change the pay out structure for the NCAA tournament. This is the real thing that is bothering Gonzaga. It's the real thing that they want changed. It's more important to them than changing leagues in an effort to play better competition.

For 10 years we've been begging them to commit to bball and stop sucking off of the teat that is GU hoops, for 10 years the have been surviving on Gonzaga welfare. The time for Gonzaga and WCC reconciliation is past.

thespywhozaggedme
03-01-2018, 11:16 AM
is this the longest thread we've ever had on this board dedicated to just one topic, i.e. non recruit specific?

GoZags
03-01-2018, 11:17 AM
Roth has confirmed all of the information about Gonzaga being approached by the MWC. It's been reported in several tweets.

I expect this to be used as a ploy by Few and Roth to get the WCC to change the pay out structure for the NCAA tournament. This is the real thing that is bothering Gonzaga. It's the real thing that they want changed. It's more important to them than changing leagues in an effort to play better competition.

That's the only difference between this one (MWC) and the others (BE/AAC/CUSA) ... all of whom have had this "type" of conversation. Roth and Thayne ARE listening .... and the frustration with the majority of WCC Presidents continues. And losing Lynn was NOT helpful for the Zags. We'll see what happens. Nothing is in the bag until it is in the bag ... and the fact that this new scenario IS public leads me to believe the "bag" has at least opened a big.

willandi
03-01-2018, 11:18 AM
Roth has confirmed all of the information about Gonzaga being approached by the MWC. It's been reported in several tweets.

I expect this to be used as a ploy by Few and Roth to get the WCC to change the pay out structure for the NCAA tournament. This is the real thing that is bothering Gonzaga. It's the real thing that they want changed. It's more important to them than changing leagues in an effort to play better competition.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22609100/gonzaga-talks-mountain-west-conference-join-league

"The only school Thompson identified was Gonzaga, one of the nation's top mid-major programs. Thompson said Gonzaga athletic director Mike Roth reached out to him last fall and that he has spoken with men's basketball coach Mark Few about the possibility of the Zags leaving the West Coast Conference for the MWC."

This implies that Roth reached out to them...actually, it SAYS he did.

Coach Crazy
03-01-2018, 11:22 AM
Roth has confirmed all of the information about Gonzaga being approached by the MWC. It's been reported in several tweets.

I expect this to be used as a ploy by Few and Roth to get the WCC to change the pay out structure for the NCAA tournament. This is the real thing that is bothering Gonzaga. It's the real thing that they want changed. It's more important to them than changing leagues in an effort to play better competition.

Okay, but dramatically changing the profit structure will essentially sinks the conference. It's best just to leave, at that point. That's the sad reality.

raise the zag
03-01-2018, 11:23 AM
Roth has confirmed all of the information about Gonzaga being approached by the MWC. It's been reported in several tweets.

I expect this to be used as a ploy by Few and Roth to get the WCC to change the pay out structure for the NCAA tournament. This is the real thing that is bothering Gonzaga. It's the real thing that they want changed. It's more important to them than changing leagues in an effort to play better competition.

I dunno CDC, while I agree with the leverage motive here, I think there is more to it than just revenue...i really do.

Listening to Few's pressor last season before the Tournament even begun was telling.

"They [WCC teams] are really dragging the "Top 3" down."

When asked about conference RPI & overall SOS.

He seemed pointed and fired up, at least by Coach Few standards.

Zagdawg
03-01-2018, 11:23 AM
Zag Nation‏
@UnitedWeZag
Following Following @UnitedWeZag
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Underrated aspect of the Mountain West: the venues.

Zags would go from 3rd biggest arena in WCC to 3rd smallest in a 12-team MW. Mariott Center holds 18000+, so if BYU follows GU that's another huge venue in the league...

MW schools sorted by arena capacity:

https://i.imgur.com/FpLbMd7.png

11:41 AM - 1 Mar 2018

Birddog
03-01-2018, 11:23 AM
Roth has confirmed all of the information about Gonzaga being approached by the MWC. It's been reported in several tweets.

I expect this to be used as a ploy by Few and Roth to get the WCC to change the pay out structure for the NCAA tournament. This is the real thing that is bothering Gonzaga. It's the real thing that they want changed. It's more important to them than changing leagues in an effort to play better competition.

The article that started all this said that GU initiated contact with the MWC. Small point, but it should be noted.


Thompson said Gonzaga athletic director Mike Roth reached out to him last fall and that he has spoken with men's basketball coach Mark Few about the possibility of the Zags leaving the West Coast Conference for the MWC.