PDA

View Full Version : AP & Coaches Polls: Week 17



Mantua
02-26-2018, 08:17 AM
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll

former1dog
02-26-2018, 08:22 AM
Leapfrogged by Kansas.

gueastcoast
02-26-2018, 08:24 AM
What a joke.

RenoZag
02-26-2018, 08:27 AM
Writer John Feinstein has GU at # 3; six other voters have GU # 4. Dickie V has GU at # 7. Seth Davis pegs the Zags @ # 10. . .

http://www.collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/gonzaga-bulldogs/2017


Zags are # 7 in the Coaches Poll too.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

FlyZag
02-26-2018, 08:33 AM
Leapfrogged by Kansas.

Winning @ top ten ranked Texas Tech > winning at unranked 7 conference loss BYU

Zags_Fanatic
02-26-2018, 08:34 AM
I just posted this in the records thread but seems relevant here as well. This is Gonzaga's 35th consecutive week in the AP Top 25 which breaks their previous record of 34 set in 2005-2006.

sittingon50
02-26-2018, 08:55 AM
I just posted this in the records thread but seems relevant here as well. This is Gonzaga's 35th consecutive week in the AP Top 25 which breaks their previous record of 34 set in 2005-2006.

:clap:

thespywhozaggedme
02-26-2018, 09:04 AM
Winning @ top ten ranked Texas Tech > winning at unranked 7 conference loss BYU

4 losses > 7 losses

raise the zag
02-26-2018, 09:12 AM
ok, one last woulda/coulda/shoulda/what if for the season.

Imagine IF we would have kept our early-entree(s) from last season?

It would be Gonzaga #1....then every one else...by a fairly wide margin, imho.

Speaking of, there were only (7) teams in the entire NCAA who had multiple EARLY entrants drafted last season. They were: Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, UNC, Oregon, Indiana, & Gonzaga.

DixieZag
02-26-2018, 09:15 AM
Now without much reason to hope that the committee will look beyond the RPI, expected to come in at ...what? 28? If we win out? and then seed us "accordingly," looking to be a consensus "5" or lower, I think it best to hope that we just get decent/fair match-ups.

The committee can "job" us far worse with match-ups and location than with a dropped seed. Big difference between being a 5 seed with a good match-up out west versus being a 5 or 6 with an opening game in someone's backyard in the east, or an especially tough 2nd round game.

This team seems to respond very well to being "woken-up" or disrespected, thankfully. I anticipate ahead of time this team being pretty offended, ranked top 6 and seeded somewhere around 20.

FlyZag
02-26-2018, 09:33 AM
4 losses > 7 losses

12 wins over Kenpom top 50 > 4 wins over kenpom top 50

jazzdelmar
02-26-2018, 09:49 AM
ok, one last woulda/coulda/shoulda/what if for the season.

Imagine IF we would have kept our early-entree(s) from last season?

It would be Gonzaga #1....then every one else...by a fairly wide margin, imho.

Speaking of, there were only (7) teams in the entire NCAA who had multiple EARLY entrants drafted last season. They were: Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, UNC, Oregon, Indiana, & Gonzaga.

GU First.....................(Chasm)................. ...................................Rest of the field.

TexasZag
02-26-2018, 09:49 AM
ok, one last woulda/coulda/shoulda/what if for the season.

Imagine IF we would have kept our early-entree(s) from last season?

It would be Gonzaga #1....then every one else...by a fairly wide margin, imho.

Speaking of, there were only (7) teams in the entire NCAA who had multiple EARLY entrants drafted last season. They were: Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, UNC, Oregon, Indiana, & Gonzaga.

I'm not so sure that this year there is any way we could have ascended to number one. It looks like the full weight of a very weak WCC is coming to bear.

gonstu
02-26-2018, 10:03 AM
Now without much reason to hope that the committee will look beyond the RPI, expected to come in at ...what? 28? If we win out? and then seed us "accordingly," looking to be a consensus "5" or lower, I think it best to hope that we just get decent/fair match-ups.

The committee can "job" us far worse with match-ups and location than with a dropped seed. Big difference between being a 5 seed with a good match-up out west versus being a 5 or 6 with an opening game in someone's backyard in the east, or an especially tough 2nd round game.

This team seems to respond very well to being "woken-up" or disrespected, thankfully. I anticipate ahead of time this team being pretty offended, ranked top 6 and seeded somewhere around 20.


yes, agree. Don't know there is that much of a difference between being a 4 or 5 seed. Give me the 5 seed in Boise - better then the 4 seed on the East Coast.

23dpg
02-26-2018, 11:12 AM
Writer John Feinstein has GU at # 3; six other voters have GU # 4. Dickie V has GU at # 7. Seth Davis pegs the Zags @ # 10. . .

http://www.collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/gonzaga-bulldogs/2017

I have a much bigger issue with the committee placing Gonzaga as a 4-5 seed than I do Seth Davis ranking us 10. You could have a reasonable discussion about a 10 ranking. I doubt you could find any basketball writers/experts who would say that the Zags are not a top 16 team. Outside of the selection committee room of course.

Zagceo
02-26-2018, 11:46 AM
I'm not so sure that this year there is any way we could have ascended to number one. It looks like the full weight of a very weak WCC is coming to bear.

IF...we woulda beat Duke in PK80 and ran up scores in WCC....we woulda been ranked #1

MontanaCoyote
02-26-2018, 11:48 AM
Damn, I wanted a 5! Breaking out my Rodney Dangerfield "I Get No Respect" Ties. What will it take, 5 consecutive final 4's and 2 national championships?

thespywhozaggedme
02-26-2018, 11:48 AM
12 wins over Kenpom top 50 > 4 wins over kenpom top 50

lol @ not being able to see the trees through the forest. We're talking about "actual" w's and l's, y'know the ones that actually take place on the court and count in the standings, not theoretical analytics.

kitzbuel
02-26-2018, 11:57 AM
12 wins over Kenpom top 50 > 4 wins over kenpom top 50

Then why did they just figure that out this week?

Kong-Kool-Aid
02-26-2018, 12:21 PM
12 wins over Kenpom top 50 > 4 wins over kenpom top 50

Don't think the AP uses KenPom wins do they? If so...

Strength of Schedule NCSOS
Rank Team Conf W-L AdjEM AdjO AdjD AdjT Luck AdjEM OppO OppD AdjEM
1 Virginia ACC 26-2 +32.36 115.8 38 83.4 1 58.9 351 +.009 150 +8.38 40 110.8 34 102.4 42 +0.47 160
2 Villanova BE 25-4 +30.53 128.0 1 97.5 34 68.9 135 -.029 246 +9.90 17 111.6 18 101.7 23 +4.23 69
3 Duke ACC 24-5 +29.39 125.4 2 96.0 17 70.5 65 -.004 186 +9.65 21 110.4 39 100.7 7 +5.24 42
4 Purdue B10 26-5 +27.56 123.0 3 95.4 15 67.4 216 -.000 175 +7.92 43 109.8 51 101.9 28 +1.08 150
5 Michigan St. B10 28-3 +27.44 120.8 10 93.3 7 67.3 220 +.048 77 +5.68 67 109.5 60 103.8 74 -4.95 309
6 Cincinnati Amer 25-4 +26.97 114.6 45 87.7 2 65.4 310 -.034 262 +1.65 116 106.5 128 104.9 103 -4.43 302
7 North Carolina ACC 22-7 +24.45 122.4 5 98.0 40 71.4 43 +.001 170 +12.29 1 112.2 7 99.9 1 +7.65 18
8 Gonzaga WCC 27-4 +23.79 120.4 13 96.7 24 69.1 128 -.004 185 +0.83 127 106.9 112 106.1 156 +2.85 92
9 Kansas B12 23-6 +22.95 120.9 9 97.9 39 68.5 163 +.053 66 +11.01 8 112.3 6 101.3 17 +3.86 76
10 Auburn SEC 24-5 +22.85 120.5 12 97.6 37 72.1 29 -.026 241 +7.33 52 109.6 55 102.3 39 -1.25 204

FuManShoes
02-26-2018, 12:27 PM
[QUOTE=Kong-Kool-Aid;1365864]Don't think the AP uses KenPom wins do they? If so...

[\QUOTE]

I don't think the committee uses Kenpom at all, no matter what they say. If they did, the Zags would be a 2 or 3 seed instead of 5. Good year to dust off that huge chip on the shoulder.

soccerdud
02-26-2018, 02:04 PM
IF...we woulda beat Duke in PK80 and ran up scores in WCC....we woulda been ranked #1

that was my initial thought and i immediately posted something along those lines-- then figured it mattered what other teams' resumes looked like, peeked at uva's... and thought better and deleted. we'd probably be 30-1 or 29-2.

however, virginia is 26-2 with 8 kenpom 'A'-level wins and 7 kenpom 'B'-level wins. if we were 30-1, we would have 6 'A'-level wins and 5 'B'-level wins -- but we'd still be well behind them in SoS (both numerical and perceived -- yay WCC), as well as rpi (which shouldn't matter but does affect perceptions). truth is, i just don't see a 1-game advantage in the loss column overcoming that. i think we'd have to be undefeated (certainly possible, but i wouldn't bet on it) to be #1 right now, simply because virginia -- as much as we talk about parity and lack of standout teams -- actually has a standout resume. everyone just undersells them because that offense is iffy and they win close games. but winning close games is still winning games, and winning games in the ACC is still WAY better than winning games in the WCC.

but we'd definitely be a 1-seed and i'd give us as good a chance as anyone to win the whole thing.

Shanachie
02-26-2018, 02:21 PM
I have a much bigger issue with the committee placing Gonzaga as a 4-5 seed than I do Seth Davis ranking us 10. You could have a reasonable discussion about a 10 ranking. I doubt you could find any basketball writers/experts who would say that the Zags are not a top 16 team. Outside of the selection committee room of course.

I think you are mixing how good they are with what they have accomplished. These are two different things. Tournament seeding is (or should be, in my view) about what you accomplish, not about how "good" you are. If you look at what the Zags have accomplished in terms of wins and losses vs. the schedule they have played, a 4 or 5 seed is not unreasonable.

23dpg
02-26-2018, 02:30 PM
I think you are mixing how good they are with what they have accomplished. These are two different things. Tournament seeding is (or should be, in my view) about what you accomplish, not about how "good" you are. If you look at what the Zags have accomplished in terms of wins and losses vs. the schedule they have played, a 4 or 5 seed is not unreasonable.

Then we agree to disagree. If the Golden State Warriors played in the MAAC, they’d be undefeated but not really have beaten anyone. I think you should seeds teams based on how good they are. That way you don’t penalize a 4 seed that would have to play the “Warriors” in my hypothetical scenario.

The small schools and mid majors will always be under seeded or not in the tournament if you just go by accomplishments. And as noted previously, small schools may get one or two chances to legitimize their team. Big schools get all year. ie Arizona which finished 8th in an 8 team tourney but are still a 4 seed. If that was Gonzaga, they’d be on the bubble or worse.

Ikancagin
02-26-2018, 03:41 PM
Personally I like being somewhat undervalued by the prognosticators. I have been rereading "Bravehearts" and it takes me back to the feeling of we will play anyone anywhere any time and they better watch out. I like them giving us this motivation.

RenoZag
02-26-2018, 04:28 PM
IF...we woulda beat Duke in PK80 and ran up scores in WCC....we woulda been ranked #1

If we had made a better show of things at MSG vs. Villanova. . .

sheps001
02-26-2018, 07:37 PM
Was there and it exposed a lot of our deficiencies which are still there and wear on our seed and potential in the Tourney. No big man to eat up the middle (Lane Blocker) and (Shot Blocker). You could see Villanova's energy and confidence building and this will happen in the tourney when the opponent throws two physical big men at us and the refs let them bang (as most assuredly they will. Poor three point shooting defense. Like the old days and not like last year. Inconsistent team play. Some players didn't show up and this has been happening all year. So the committee isn't stupid and they see this too. Where is Larsen??? He made a difference at the Garden. Where is he??

23dpg
02-26-2018, 07:42 PM
Was there and it exposed a lot of our deficiencies which are still there and wear on our seed and potential in the Tourney. No big man to eat up the middle (Lane Blocker) and (Shot Blocker). You could see Villanova's energy and confidence building and this will happen in the tourney when the opponent throws two physical big men at us and the refs let them bang (as most assuredly they will. Poor three point shooting defense. Like the old days and not like last year. Inconsistent team play. Some players didn't show up and this has been happening all year. So the committee isn't stupid and they see this too. Where is Larsen??? He made a difference at the Garden. Where is he??

They aren’t stupid. They’re ignorant if they think they are using the best metrics to pick teams.
They are savvy if they’re doing it to keep the $ coming to their primary schools (power 5 conferences).
You saw their worst game of the season. I feel it has tainted your view.