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Reborn
02-26-2018, 06:46 AM
Gonzaga drops one seed to #5 in the West after beating BYU on the road. Arizona remains the 4 in the West after losing on the Road to Oregon. Lunardi has truly been really hard on Gonzaga this year. IMO, he's distrespectul. However, I would like to play Arizona now. I can't believe that he leaves Arizona at the 4. They have been there for so long even after losing at least a couple of games.

Go Zags!!!

U Zig, I Zag
02-26-2018, 06:47 AM
Zags dropped to a 5. Figures.

raise the zag
02-26-2018, 06:51 AM
see post in other thread or HERE (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?62469-Monday-2-26-Where-Will-We-Be-in-the-Polls&p=1365752#post1365752).

I sincerely believe a 5 seed is our best case scenario, more likely a 6 seed even if we win out. And I wouldn't be surprised at a 7 seed, although disappointed.

I will say, some deserved higher seeded team is going to be awfully upset and/or nervous when they have to play us in Round 2!

Reborn
02-26-2018, 06:54 AM
see post in other thread or HERE (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?62469-Monday-2-26-Where-Will-We-Be-in-the-Polls&p=1365752#post1365752).

I sincerely believe a 5 seed is our best case scenario, more likely a 6 seed even if we win out. And I wouldn't be surprised at a 7 seed, although disappointed.

I will say, some deserved higher seeded team is going to be awfully upset and/or nervous when they have to play us in Round 2!

Lunardi does have St Mary's at the tenth seed in MidWest.

Reborn
02-26-2018, 07:20 AM
Lunardi does have St Mary's at the tenth seed in MidWest.

Oh yes! Let's not forget that Gonzaga has 11 wins in a row now, including victories against St. Mary's and BYU on the Road. He has Ohio St at the 4 seed, and if you remember we beat Ohio St. The one consolation is that we're in the West Region. It just irritates me that we're behind Arizona after they lost to Oregon Saturday. I'm okay if we do play Arizona. Let's see who's better. I expect them to lose another game at some point in the conference tournament.

Go Zags!!!

GoZags
02-26-2018, 07:32 AM
see post in other thread or HERE (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?62469-Monday-2-26-Where-Will-We-Be-in-the-Polls&p=1365752#post1365752).

I sincerely believe a 5 seed is our best case scenario, more likely a 6 seed even if we win out. And I wouldn't be surprised at a 7 seed, although disappointed.

I will say, some deserved higher seeded team is going to be awfully upset and/or nervous when they have to play us in Round 2!

And here was my input to your thinking (from the other thread).


The beauty of THIS team is they can do some considerable damage regardless of seed (although my preference is to stay out of the 8/9 game).

Anyone. Anytime. Anywhere.

rennis
02-26-2018, 07:39 AM
If GU wins out they will be a 4 seed.

ZagzKrak
02-26-2018, 07:44 AM
While it stinks dropping to the 5 that bracket is very favorable. 1-4 have certainly been beatable this year. Personally I would be thrilled if that was our draw.

webspinnre
02-26-2018, 07:45 AM
It's absolutely insane that a team that by all objective measures is a top-10 team and is coming off of a national championship game could get a 5 seed.

ZagsObserver
02-26-2018, 07:45 AM
I do not want the dreaded 5 seed. 5/12 upset special - no thanks.

Zagceo
02-26-2018, 07:50 AM
see post in other thread or HERE (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?62469-Monday-2-26-Where-Will-We-Be-in-the-Polls&p=1365752#post1365752).

I sincerely believe a 5 seed is our best case scenario, more likely a 6 seed even if we win out. And I wouldn't be surprised at a 7 seed, although disappointed.

I will say, some deserved higher seeded team is going to be awfully upset and/or nervous when they have to play us in Round 2!

Oh the whining.. look forward to it

The path is more important to me three S's

San Diego

Staples

San Antonio

scrooner
02-26-2018, 08:04 AM
Lunardi has truly been really hard on Gonzaga this year. IMO, he's distrespectul.

It's my understanding that Lunardi's brackets are based on his projections of the seeds the committee will give out, not his own personal opinion of where teams should be seeded.

FlyZag
02-26-2018, 08:13 AM
honest question: does it really matter if we are a 4 vs 5? play a 13 vs 12... then play either a 4/5. Seems trivial to me. Now if it were a 7 vs 8.. then I'd be upset. But a 4/5 is identical.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2018, 08:17 AM
honest question: does it really matter if we are a 4 vs 5? play a 13 vs 12... then play either a 4/5. Seems trivial to me. Now if it were a 7 vs 8.. then I'd be upset. But a 4/5 is identical.

with you

play who you put in front of us win and advance

to be the best you need to beat the best at some point and time

tinfoilzag
02-26-2018, 08:17 AM
The selection committee is saying there are 16 teams that have had a better seasons than GU this year if they put GU on the 5-line

1 VIRGINIA ACC
1 VILLANOVA Big East
1 KANSAS B12
1 XAVIER Big East
2 MICHIGAN ST B1G
2 North Carolina ACC
2 Purdue B1G
2 Duke ACC
3 AUBURN SEC
3 Wichita St AAC
3 Tennessee SEC
3 CINCINNATI AAC
4 Texas Tech B12
4 ARIZONA P12
4 Ohio St B1G
4 West Virginia B12

1 School west of Texas, 7 conferences. The rules are setup to create an echo chamber (similar to Facebook) that self-reinforces. Don't think this is a mistake; it is by design.

There is a club and GU ain't in it.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2018, 08:20 AM
The selection committee is saying there are 16 teams that have had a better seasons than GU this year if they put GU on the 5-line

1 VIRGINIA ACC
1 VILLANOVA Big East
1 KANSAS B12
1 XAVIER Big East
2 MICHIGAN ST B1G
2 North Carolina ACC
2 Purdue B1G
2 Duke ACC
3 AUBURN SEC
3 Wichita St AAC
3 Tennessee SEC
3 CINCINNATI AAC
4 Texas Tech B12
4 ARIZONA P12
4 Ohio St B1G
4 West Virginia B12

1 School west of Texas, 7 conferences. The rules are setup to create an echo chamber (similar to Facebook) that self-reinforces. Don't think this is a mistake; it is by design.

There is a club and GU ain't in it.

agree with your view but I stopped beating my head against the wall as it started to hurt

FlyZag
02-26-2018, 08:29 AM
The selection committee is saying there are 16 teams that have had a better seasons than GU this year if they put GU on the 5-line

1 VIRGINIA ACC
1 VILLANOVA Big East
1 KANSAS B12
1 XAVIER Big East
2 MICHIGAN ST B1G
2 North Carolina ACC
2 Purdue B1G
2 Duke ACC
3 AUBURN SEC
3 Wichita St AAC
3 Tennessee SEC
3 CINCINNATI AAC
4 Texas Tech B12
4 ARIZONA P12
4 Ohio St B1G
4 West Virginia B12

1 School west of Texas, 7 conferences. The rules are setup to create an echo chamber (similar to Facebook) that self-reinforces. Don't think this is a mistake; it is by design.

There is a club and GU ain't in it.

Other than Ohio State by virtue of our win over them.. who do you think we should replace? And if you are only going to look at wins vs opponents then shouldn't San Diego State be ahead of us?

I just think that a 4 or 5 seed is about where we belong. I can see us ahead of OSU, but it's not crazy to see it the other way. They have wins over kenpom ranked #16 Michigan, @ #4 Purdue, #5 Mich St. While we have wins over Kenpom #19 SMC and #15 OSU. Yes I understand heads up should trump... but look at our RPI... yikes.

former1dog
02-26-2018, 08:38 AM
Other than Ohio State by virtue of our win over them.. who do you think we should replace? And if you are only going to look at wins vs opponents then shouldn't San Diego State be ahead of us?

I just think that a 4 or 5 seed is about where we belong. I can see us ahead of OSU, but it's not crazy to see it the other way. They have wins over kenpom ranked #16 Michigan, @ #4 Purdue, #5 Mich St. While we have wins over Kenpom #19 SMC and #15 OSU. Yes I understand heads up should trump... but look at our RPI... yikes.


I would honestly put Gonzaga above the bottom 8 in that list.

FlyZag
02-26-2018, 08:45 AM
I would honestly put Gonzaga above the bottom 8 in that list.

I guess we've been watching 2 different teams all season. My eyes see a sweet 16 type team this year.

I see an OT game against North Dakota, an ugly OT win against Texas, an inexplicable loss against SDST an absolute obliteration against Villanova... Close wins with the help of the refs against SD. Our best win is against OSU early, a good not great Creighton team at home a mediocre UW team and a win against SMC who.. we honestly don't know how good they are because they don't play anyone. I see us right where they have us... 13-18ish

JPtheBeasta
02-26-2018, 08:47 AM
Based on that list of teams above, a 5 seed isn’t an insult.

What happens when Wichita St beats Cincinnati again?

What happens when UofA swoons and/or it has to sit Fee-andre Pay-ton? Will the Zags fall into a 4 seed or will they find someone else?

I’m curious how much of a bump that Creighton win over Villanova gave for the Zags’ RPI?

tinfoilzag
02-26-2018, 08:49 AM
Other than Ohio State by virtue of our win over them.. who do you think we should replace? And if you are only going to look at wins vs opponents then shouldn't San Diego State be ahead of us?

I just think that a 4 or 5 seed is about where we belong. I can see us ahead of OSU, but it's not crazy to see it the other way. They have wins over kenpom ranked #16 Michigan, @ #4 Purdue, #5 Mich St. While we have wins over Kenpom #19 SMC and #15 OSU. Yes I understand heads up should trump... but look at our RPI... yikes.

The RPI metric is not good. Do you think GU keeps outperforming their seed through chance or are we being under-seeded based on RPI? Tennessee, Arizona, and and Ohio St. do not belong in the top 16.

ZagsObserver
02-26-2018, 08:50 AM
We are better than all of the three and four seeds. I would take a 4 seed, however, based on our high rpi.

To the poster who asked whether it matters whether we are a 4 or 5 seed, it does. Upsets are more common at the 5/12 spot than the 4/13. The 12 seeds often have sleeper teams that can be dangerous based on matchups.

JPtheBeasta
02-26-2018, 08:50 AM
I guess we've been watching 2 different teams all season. My eyes see a sweet 16 type team this year.

I see an OT game against North Dakota, an ugly OT win against Texas, an inexplicable loss against SDST an absolute obliteration against Villanova... Close wins with the help of the refs against SD. Our best win is against OSU early, a good not great Creighton team at home a mediocre UW team and a win against SMC who.. we honestly don't know how good they are because they don't play anyone. I see us right where they have us... 13-18ish

I didn’t think Villanova looked that great against the Zags and that it was a winnable game if the visiting team actually showed up. I didn’t see stifling defense or amazing offense out of Villanova. I saw a Zag team that wasn’t used to giving a good effort for the entire shot clock and acted like they had never seen a pump fake before.

thespywhozaggedme
02-26-2018, 08:50 AM
I guess we've been watching 2 different teams all season. My eyes see a sweet 16 type team this year.

I see an OT game against North Dakota, an ugly OT win against Texas, an inexplicable loss against SDST an absolute obliteration against Villanova... Close wins with the help of the refs against SD. Our best win is against OSU early, a good not great Creighton team at home a mediocre UW team and a win against SMC who.. we honestly don't know how good they are because they don't play anyone. I see us right where they have us... 13-18ish

Now use the same scrutiny for the teams that you think deserve to be above us and if you're objective, you'll admit that you either under rated us, or over rated them. This year anyone can beat anyone.

former1dog
02-26-2018, 08:52 AM
I guess we've been watching 2 different teams all season. My eyes see a sweet 16 type team this year.

I see an OT game against North Dakota, an ugly OT win against Texas, an inexplicable loss against SDST an absolute obliteration against Villanova... Close wins with the help of the refs against SD. Our best win is against OSU early, a good not great Creighton team at home a mediocre UW team and a win against SMC who.. we honestly don't know how good they are because they don't play anyone. I see us right where they have us... 13-18ish


No, I think we've been watching the same team, Gonzaga has had its struggles this season. But have you been watching the teams on the bottom half of the list referenced? All of those teams have similar issues and guess what the metrics like BPI, Palm rating, Sagarin are for the most part worse than Gonzaga's.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-26-2018, 09:03 AM
I just hope our Zags latch on to the “anyone, anytime, anywhere” tough as nails attitude that started this whole run. When entitlement creeps in players and coaches and fans get distracted from the bottom line: if you think you’re better than another team, go out and prove it!

I recall the one year Zag coaches seemed to whine about their NCAA seeding they got beat (Nevada or Davidson maybe?...can’t recall).

raise the zag
02-26-2018, 09:16 AM
honest question: does it really matter if we are a 4 vs 5? play a 13 vs 12... then play either a 4/5. Seems trivial to me. Now if it were a 7 vs 8.. then I'd be upset. But a 4/5 is identical.

Good point.

Of ALL the seed lines, there is literally zero difference b/w 4 & 5. They both play a 12 or 13 R1, each other in Rd 2, #1 seed in Rd 3....probably the least different b/w one seed line compared to any other, save the 12/5 upset special that seems to occur every single season.

Actually, I believe it has occurred something like 19 of the last 20 Tournaments, so there's that...

basketballzag
02-26-2018, 09:16 AM
I just hope our Zags latch on to the “anyone, anytime, anywhere” tough as nails attitude that started this whole run. When entitlement creeps in players and coaches and fans get distracted from the bottom line: if you think you’re better than another team, go out and prove it!

I recall the one year Zag coaches seemed to whine about their NCAA seeding they got beat (Nevada or Davidson maybe?...can’t recall).

The renewed focus on the RPI is an Power 5 play to keep more of the mid-majors out of the NCAA Tournament. Its going to backfire pretty hard when a #11 seeded St. Mary's and a #6 seeded Gonzaga take out the higher seeded teams and those higher seeded teams are going to go ballistic that they have to play Gonzaga because they know they are a legitimate 2 seed.

ZagsObserver
02-26-2018, 09:23 AM
Good point.

Of ALL the seed lines, there is literally zero difference b/w 4 & 5. They both play a 12 or 13 R1, each other in Rd 2, #1 seed in Rd 3....probably the least different b/w one seed line compared to any other, save the 12/5 upset special that seems to occur every single season.

Actually, I believe it has occurred something like 19 of the last 20 Tournaments, so there's that...

Over the last 5 years, 10 12-seeds have advanced. That’s half. No one wants a five seed. 4-seed odds are much better. That one seed difference between 4 and 5 is probably greater than any other seed in the first round.

Shanachie
02-26-2018, 09:24 AM
The RPI metric is not good. Do you think GU keeps outperforming their seed through chance or are we being under-seeded based on RPI? Tennessee, Arizona, and and Ohio St. do not belong in the top 16.

Not sure what you mean by "GU keeps outperforming their seed." In the last 10 years, by my count GU has outperformed their seed twice (2011 and 2016), underperformed twice (2008 and 2013), and played to seed six times.

I think that, with maybe one or two exceptions, the Zags have been treated pretty fairly over the years.

FlyZag
02-26-2018, 09:31 AM
Now use the same scrutiny for the teams that you think deserve to be above us and if you're objective, you'll admit that you either under rated us, or over rated them. This year anyone can beat anyone.

I think we all agree that Kenpom is a fairly good metric to evaluate the strength of teams in CBB. The top 16 seeds are listed below with the number of wins over top 50 kenpom ranked teams. Gonzaga has 4 top 50 kenpom wins for perspective. This is only one metric.. but you can see it's fairly accurate. The only teams with fewer than us are Cincinnati with 2 and Wichita with 3. But Cincinnati is ranked 6 kenpom to our 8 overall and has a way better RPI. Wichita is kenpom 17 but has better RPI. Both of those schools suffer from the 7th rank American conference schedule just like GU suffers from the WCC.

4 seeds
West Virginia - 10 wins
Ohio State - 4 wins
AZ - 5 wins
Texas Tech - 9 wins

3 seeds
Cinci - 2 wins
Tenn - 6 wins
WSU - 3 wins
Auburn - 6 wins

2 seeds
Duke - 9 wins
Purdue - 8 wins
NC - 10 wins
MSU - 6 wins

1 seeds
Xavier - 8 wins
Kansas - 12 wins
Villanova - 7 wins
Virginia - 9 wins

Shanachie
02-26-2018, 09:33 AM
I just hope our Zags latch on to the “anyone, anytime, anywhere” tough as nails attitude that started this whole run. When entitlement creeps in players and coaches and fans get distracted from the bottom line: if you think you’re better than another team, go out and prove it!

I recall the one year Zag coaches seemed to whine about their NCAA seeding they got beat (Nevada or Davidson maybe?...can’t recall).

I don't recall any whining about seeding by Zag coaches in any year. Fans and pundits are a different story. Against Nevada in 2004 we were a 2 seed playing in Seattle, so there wasn't much to complain about. Davidson was a really tough draw because of location, but seeding seemed fair. Lots of people whined about Wyoming in 2002, and I could be wrong, but I don't think it was the coaches.

CDC84
02-26-2018, 09:36 AM
Keep in mind - this is based on TODAY. Lunardi said very clearly during the BYU or USD game (I forget which) that when all the dust settles, if GU wins out, they will get a 4 seed.

The team NO ONE wants a piece of in March is Middle Tennessee State. They're a sweet 16 threat. But Joe appropriately has them as an 11 right now. Loyola Chicago won't be easy either. They're a 12 now.

Zags11
02-26-2018, 09:41 AM
Well I thought we would get a 3 seed if we won out, it looks like the Zag year we got hosed and played Wyoming. (01-02) idk right now but winning out zags should get a 4 seed but who knows?

ZagsObserver
02-26-2018, 09:41 AM
I don't recall any whining about seeding by Zag coaches in any year. Fans and pundits are a different story. Against Nevada in 2004 we were a 2 seed playing in Seattle, so there wasn't much to complain about. Davidson was a really tough draw because of location, but seeding seemed fair. Lots of people whined about Wyoming in 2002, and I could be wrong, but I don't think it was the coaches.

I think that was the year we were ranked 6th and ended up as a six seed. It was a brutal seed and GU didn’t have the same name recognition then as they do now.

CDC84
02-26-2018, 09:51 AM
I don't recall any whining about seeding by Zag coaches in any year. Fans and pundits are a different story. Against Nevada in 2004 we were a 2 seed playing in Seattle, so there wasn't much to complain about. Davidson was a really tough draw because of location, but seeding seemed fair. Lots of people whined about Wyoming in 2002, and I could be wrong, but I don't think it was the coaches.

There was some whining from Few and the players when GU got the 6 against Wyoming because it was one of the worst seedings and draws in the history of the tournament. They deserved a 3 or a 4 at worst. Moreover, when CBS turned its camera to the Zag room after their draw was announced, everyone stood in silence. There may have been a few claps. That caused a massive backlash against the Zags throughout the media. I cannot tell you how many radio guys said they were rooting for Wyoming to beat Gonzaga into submission just based on the team's TV reaction alone. I still know college basketball analysts who still believe that the 6 seed that GU got that year is still one of the worst seedings ever handed to a team in the history of the tourney. It wasn't just the seed. It was because they had to play in high elevation on a Mountain West Conference home floor against a MWC team. The whole building was turned against the Zags. It was a total road game.

What made that loss so frustrating is that it was really the only first round loss that Few has sustained against an opponent who was clearly inferior. I know Davidson was 3 seeds behind GU, but as the Wildcats proved through their elite 8 run, they were probably better than a 10. Just having Curry and McKillop coaching automatically made them better than a 10. Also, the Wyoming loss was what I refer to as the "can't hit a pea in the ocean game." Every hundred games or so a team has a game where the whole rotation can't hit a shot, not matter how wide open they are. The Wyoming game was one of those nights. Dickau and the whole crew had shot after shot after shot they had made the whole year, and just nothing would go in. The Cowboys didn't even play that good. It's a game where I didn't and still don't give Wyoming credit for winning. It's hard for me to fault a team filled with great offensive players who get wide open shot after wide open shot, and they just cannot get anything to go down. You just want to throw your hands up in the air and quit. As I said, it occurs once every hundred games or so. I mean, 15 minutes into the game, the Zags could have just walked off the floor and called a forfeit. Wouldn't have been a good display of sportsmanship, but it was one of those kind of nights. Nothing went in. Nothing.

tinfoilzag
02-26-2018, 10:00 AM
Not sure what you mean by "GU keeps outperforming their seed." In the last 10 years, by my count GU has outperformed their seed twice (2011 and 2016), underperformed twice (2008 and 2013), and played to seed six times.

I think that, with maybe one or two exceptions, the Zags have been treated pretty fairly over the years.

The two times we under performed our seed in 10 years were against other teams improperly seeded due to the current system.

We played Steph Curry's #10 Davidson in N. Carolina (as a higher seed) and #9 Wichita State in 13. One an elite 8 team and one a Final 4.

It was somewhat understandable back then (when we didn't have other well established metrics outside of RPI) to mis-seed teams with small data sets against other good teams but now we have better performance AND predictive metrics that are being ignored. They new metrics are "being evaluated" for a reason and it's not because the math is off.

ZagsObserver
02-26-2018, 10:06 AM
The two times we under performed our seed in 10 years were against other teams improperly seeded due to the current system.

We played Steph Curry's #10 Davidson in N. Carolina (as a higher seed) and #9 Wichita State in 13. One an elite 8 team and one a Final 4.

It was somewhat understandable back then (when we didn't have other well established metrics outside of RPI) to mis-seed teams with small data sets against other good teams but now we have better performance AND predictive metrics that are being ignored. They new metrics are "being evaluated" for a reason and it's not because the math is off.

Was it Gray or Bell that got injured during the Wichita game? In either case, we lost our defensive stopper and that proved to be the deciding factor in that one. Coming into the game they were not a great 3 pt shooting team. They shot it well against GU.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2018, 10:14 AM
Was it Gray or Bell that got injured during the Wichita game? In either case, we lost our defensive stopper and that proved to be the deciding factor in that one. Coming into the game they were not a great 3 pt shooting team. They shot it well against GU.

Gary got hurt and they lit us up second half

ZagsObserver
02-26-2018, 10:19 AM
Gary got hurt and they lit us up second half

That could have been GU’s first final four if things had fallen a little differently. Same with the Morrison year against UCLA. I thought we may have had a shot in the Heyvelt/Downs year too, but UNCA was a buzzsaw.

DixieZag
02-26-2018, 10:42 AM
There was some whining from Few and the players when GU got the 6 against Wyoming because it was one of the worst seedings and draws in the history of the tournament. They deserved a 3 or a 4 at worst. Moreover, when CBS turned its camera to the Zag room after their draw was announced, everyone stood in silence. There may have been a few claps. That caused a massive backlash against the Zags throughout the media. I cannot tell you how many radio guys said they were rooting for Wyoming to beat Gonzaga into submission just based on the team's TV reaction alone. I still know college basketball analysts who still believe that the 6 seed that GU got that year is still one of the worst seedings ever handed to a team in the history of the tourney. It wasn't just the seed. It was because they had to play in high elevation on a Mountain West Conference home floor against a MWC team. The whole building was turned against the Zags. It was a total road game.

What made that loss so frustrating is that it was really the only first round loss that Few has sustained against an opponent who was clearly inferior. I know Davidson was 3 seeds behind GU, but as the Wildcats proved through their elite 8 run, they were probably better than a 10. Just having Curry and McKillop coaching automatically made them better than a 10. Also, the Wyoming loss was what I refer to as the "can't hit a pea in the ocean game." Every hundred games or so a team has a game where the whole rotation can't hit a shot, not matter how wide open they are. The Wyoming game was one of those nights. Dickau and the whole crew had shot after shot after shot they had made the whole year, and just nothing would go in. The Cowboys didn't even play that good. It's a game where I didn't and still don't give Wyoming credit for winning. It's hard for me to fault a team filled with great offensive players who get wide open shot after wide open shot, and they just cannot get anything to go down. You just want to throw your hands up in the air and quit. As I said, it occurs once every hundred games or so. I mean, 15 minutes into the game, the Zags could have just walked off the floor and called a forfeit. Wouldn't have been a good display of sportsmanship, but it was one of those kind of nights. Nothing went in. Nothing.

Wasn't that game played a few days after Father Tony died?

The games come one in 100 and that "100" seems to come around more often during periods of great stress.

I'm not sure how that team found the bus without Father Tony in the lobby to herd everyone up.

thespywhozaggedme
02-26-2018, 10:47 AM
I think we all agree that Kenpom is a fairly good metric to evaluate the strength of teams in CBB. The top 16 seeds are listed below with the number of wins over top 50 kenpom ranked teams. Gonzaga has 4 top 50 kenpom wins for perspective. This is only one metric.. but you can see it's fairly accurate. The only teams with fewer than us are Cincinnati with 2 and Wichita with 3. But Cincinnati is ranked 6 kenpom to our 8 overall and has a way better RPI. Wichita is kenpom 17 but has better RPI. Both of those schools suffer from the 7th rank American conference schedule just like GU suffers from the WCC.

4 seeds
West Virginia - 10 wins
Ohio State - 4 wins
AZ - 5 wins
Texas Tech - 9 wins

3 seeds
Cinci - 2 wins
Tenn - 6 wins
WSU - 3 wins
Auburn - 6 wins

2 seeds
Duke - 9 wins
Purdue - 8 wins
NC - 10 wins
MSU - 6 wins

1 seeds
Xavier - 8 wins
Kansas - 12 wins
Villanova - 7 wins
Virginia - 9 wins

you failed to mention OSU who has the same amount as us. Also, all of those teams have better seedings, yet you said ours at 5 was deserved. You're not being objective.

Zagceo
02-26-2018, 11:17 AM
Wasn't that game played a few days after Father Tony died?

The games come one in 100 and that "100" seems to come around more often during periods of great stress.

I'm not sure how that team found the bus without Father Tony in the lobby to herd everyone up.

good point

Padre passed on March 8th game was the 14th

Zags11
02-26-2018, 11:27 AM
There was some whining from Few and the players when GU got the 6 against Wyoming because it was one of the worst seedings and draws in the history of the tournament. They deserved a 3 or a 4 at worst. Moreover, when CBS turned its camera to the Zag room after their draw was announced, everyone stood in silence. There may have been a few claps. That caused a massive backlash against the Zags throughout the media. I cannot tell you how many radio guys said they were rooting for Wyoming to beat Gonzaga into submission just based on the team's TV reaction alone. I still know college basketball analysts who still believe that the 6 seed that GU got that year is still one of the worst seedings ever handed to a team in the history of the tourney. It wasn't just the seed. It was because they had to play in high elevation on a Mountain West Conference home floor against a MWC team. The whole building was turned against the Zags. It was a total road game.

What made that loss so frustrating is that it was really the only first round loss that Few has sustained against an opponent who was clearly inferior. I know Davidson was 3 seeds behind GU, but as the Wildcats proved through their elite 8 run, they were probably better than a 10. Just having Curry and McKillop coaching automatically made them better than a 10. Also, the Wyoming loss was what I refer to as the "can't hit a pea in the ocean game." Every hundred games or so a team has a game where the whole rotation can't hit a shot, not matter how wide open they are. The Wyoming game was one of those nights. Dickau and the whole crew had shot after shot after shot they had made the whole year, and just nothing would go in. The Cowboys didn't even play that good. It's a game where I didn't and still don't give Wyoming credit for winning. It's hard for me to fault a team filled with great offensive players who get wide open shot after wide open shot, and they just cannot get anything to go down. You just want to throw your hands up in the air and quit. As I said, it occurs once every hundred games or so. I mean, 15 minutes into the game, the Zags could have just walked off the floor and called a forfeit. Wouldn't have been a good display of sportsmanship, but it was one of those kind of nights. Nothing went in. Nothing.

This. Perfect post.

jpn17
02-26-2018, 12:34 PM
It's amazing how biased this whole thing is. Look at Villanova. 3-3 in the last 3 weeks with some losses to some ok but not great teams (Creighton, Providence) and a just flat out terrible loss to St. John's. But they're still ranked 4th in the polls and are still a 1 seed in all the brackets. Those losses did not matter. They're completely forgiven.

Hoopaholic
02-26-2018, 12:35 PM
It's amazing how biased this whole thing is. Look at Villanova. 3-3 in the last 3 weeks with some losses to some ok but not great teams (Creighton, Providence) and a just flat out terrible loss to St. John's. But they're still ranked 4th in the polls and are still a 1 seed in all the brackets. Those losses did not matter. They're completely forgiven.

listened to a pod cast the week after the initial 16 was released and one of the committee members said that exact thing.....they no longer consider losses unless it comes down to a tie for selection or seeding

in other words dont worry about the losses so long as they are quadrant 1 or 2

we need to relook our scheduling approach

TheGonzagaFactor
02-26-2018, 01:02 PM
Good point.

Of ALL the seed lines, there is literally zero difference b/w 4 & 5. They both play a 12 or 13 R1, each other in Rd 2, #1 seed in Rd 3....probably the least different b/w one seed line compared to any other, save the 12/5 upset special that seems to occur every single season.

Actually, I believe it has occurred something like 19 of the last 20 Tournaments, so there's that...

As of two years ago or so, the 12 > 5 upset had happened more than the 11 > 6. The 5/12 game is of course one higher seeds will want to avoid, but that upset seems to be happening less (hence only one mid-major making the S16 in either of the last 2 tournaments.

4 seed first round W%: 80

5 seed first round W%: 64

IMO the difference between 12 seeds and 13 seeds is as big or bigger than any between consecutive seed lines.

23dpg
02-26-2018, 01:04 PM
I think we all agree that Kenpom is a fairly good metric to evaluate the strength of teams in CBB. The top 16 seeds are listed below with the number of wins over top 50 kenpom ranked teams. Gonzaga has 4 top 50 kenpom wins for perspective. This is only one metric.. but you can see it's fairly accurate. The only teams with fewer than us are Cincinnati with 2 and Wichita with 3. But Cincinnati is ranked 6 kenpom to our 8 overall and has a way better RPI. Wichita is kenpom 17 but has better RPI. Both of those schools suffer from the 7th rank American conference schedule just like GU suffers from the WCC.

4 seeds
West Virginia - 10 wins
Ohio State - 4 wins
AZ - 5 wins
Texas Tech - 9 wins

3 seeds
Cinci - 2 wins
Tenn - 6 wins
WSU - 3 wins
Auburn - 6 wins

2 seeds
Duke - 9 wins
Purdue - 8 wins
NC - 10 wins
MSU - 6 wins

1 seeds
Xavier - 8 wins
Kansas - 12 wins
Villanova - 7 wins
Virginia - 9 wins

Out of how many opportunities? That’s why this quadrant thing doesn’t quite work. Of course schools in power 5 conferences will have more top 50 wins. They will get double and triple the chances. The guys on the cbs podcast think the committee doesn’t even look at losses any more. I’m sorry, it matters.

Shanachie
02-26-2018, 01:17 PM
It's amazing how biased this whole thing is. Look at Villanova. 3-3 in the last 3 weeks with some losses to some ok but not great teams (Creighton, Providence) and a just flat out terrible loss to St. John's. But they're still ranked 4th in the polls and are still a 1 seed in all the brackets. Those losses did not matter. They're completely forgiven.

Are you really complaining about Villanova being a 1 seed? Everybody has multiple losses this year. If you only look at one metric (e.g. a "flat out terrible loss"), you will find warts on every team. Gonzaga included.

You have to look at the whole picture, and when you do, Villanova is a 1 seed, and Gonzaga is 4 or 5.

webspinnre
02-26-2018, 01:27 PM
Out of how many opportunities? That’s why this quadrant thing doesn’t quite work. Of course schools in power 5 conferences will have more top 50 wins. They will get double and triple the chances. The guys on the cbs podcast think the committee doesn’t even look at losses any more. I’m sorry, it matters.

Which is the problem with not looking at losses. If they have twice as many opportunities and get twice as many wins against those teams, but also get three times as many losses against those times, that ought to be worse, not better.

sheps001
02-26-2018, 01:41 PM
We want to be out West. What seed do we have to get to stay where we are?? I think its a four. I was at the Garden to see us lose to Villanova and the time zone issue was definitely present. if we go East especially dead East it will hurt. Remember Davidson? Re: The Garden. We started out fast and faded. Further, they went right down our throats and only Larsen was able to stop them (and where is he now???). It really hurt when Bridges went right down the middle and slammed one in. The crowd erupted and I felt so mad and still do. No big man to eat him up like in so many years past. And the refs did let them bang. This will catch up to us as we go forward in the Tournament. Right now I see us winning our first game where ever it is and maybe losing our second game.Can't tell if we win this. Will we be out West? Who will we play? When? Do we match up well? Are all our guys going to show up? and this has been an issue for us. Injuries? like Tille last year. If we lose we equate to an 8 seed 16 seeds divided 2) or roughly a 5 seed (16 seeds divided by 3) if we win.It seems to me that our average is between 5.3 and 8. I expect that the committee will seed us somewhere in between either as a five or a six. Sorry, that's the way I see it now. Sure wish Collins was not a one and done. We could really have used him. That the problem with one and done's they tend to kill your program. Go Zags.

Gonzdb8
02-26-2018, 01:55 PM
Sure wish Collins was not a one and done. We could really have used him. That the problem with one and done's they tend to kill your program. Go Zags.

the rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. no question we'd be a better team with ZC around, but to say that his loss has killed our program seems to be wildly inaccurate.

23dpg
02-26-2018, 02:15 PM
http://www.bracketmatrix.com

This is nuts. Gonzaga is still on the 5 line. They are the second 5 behind Ohio State. That's not the insane part.
A couple of brackets have Gonzaga as an 8 seed. That's not the insane part.
One guy has Gonzaga as a 9 seed!!!! That's not the insane part. Wait, what?
One guy has Gonzaga as a 10 seed!

Each sentence is more ludicrous than the previous.

jpn17
02-26-2018, 02:54 PM
Are you really complaining about Villanova being a 1 seed? Everybody has multiple losses this year. If you only look at one metric (e.g. a "flat out terrible loss"), you will find warts on every team. Gonzaga included.

You have to look at the whole picture, and when you do, Villanova is a 1 seed, and Gonzaga is 4 or 5.

No the point wasn't really about Villanova, it was about losses not mattering to the power teams. I just used Villanova as an example, but there's more. Purdue lost 2 in a row and was still a 1 seed for the top 16 selection. In Lunardi's bracket Arizona loses to Oregon but stays a 4, however Gonzaga wins both and drops to a 5. Teams are losing left and right and no one cares, it's just not mattering at all. That's the point.

Reborn
02-26-2018, 03:03 PM
This has been said many times before. I send out an echo. REVAMP THE SELECTION COMMITTEE, AND GET RID OF THE RPI RANKING SYSTEM. PLEASE. GET INTO THE REAL WORLD. RPI REPRESENTS A TOTALLY FAKE WORLD DOMINATED BY THE BIG 5 CONFERENCES. lOOK AT THE RPI RANKING. Almost every team in the Big 12 is ranked in the top 25. No wonder there are 8 teams in the bracketss. And 10 teams in the ACC. Ridiculous.

HOWEVER! And that's a big however. I'm pretty happy with the West bracket as it is today. I would love to play Arizona. LOVE! Did I say love? I'd also love to play Kansas. Yes love. And then take on UNC again this year to get a pay back for a game that should have been ours. Unfortunately, it's going to change. Always does. What is the waiting time now? Two weeks?

Go Zags!!!

Zags11
02-26-2018, 03:19 PM
This has been said many times before. I send out an echo. REVAMP THE SELECTION COMMITTEE, AND GET RID OF THE RPI RANKING SYSTEM. PLEASE. GET INTO THE REAL WORLD. RPI REPRESENTS A TOTALLY FAKE WORLD DOMINATED BY THE BIG 5 CONFERENCES. lOOK AT THE RPI RANKING. Almost every team in the Big 12 is ranked in the top 25. No wonder there are 8 teams in the bracketss. And 10 teams in the ACC. Ridiculous.

HOWEVER! And that's a big however. I'm pretty happy with the West bracket as it is today. I would love to play Arizona. LOVE! Did I say love? I'd also love to play Kansas. Yes love. And then take on UNC again this year to get a pay back for a game that should have been ours. Unfortunately, it's going to change. Always does. What is the waiting time now? Two weeks?

Go Zags!!!

I think az matches up poorly for us. I really do. Unless suspensions happen then of course it'd be easier.

Reborn
02-26-2018, 03:21 PM
I don't know about you, or others, but I believe in Karma. There's a whole lot of bad Karma floating around Arizona. A whole lot of good Karma floating around Gonzaga. Gonzaga's Karma is so good this year that they will do real well. I'm smiling!

Go Zags!!!

soccerdud
02-26-2018, 03:40 PM
IMO the difference between 12 seeds and 13 seeds is as big or bigger than any between consecutive seed lines.

this. and it's not tough to figure out why-- every year the border between the last at-large and the first low-mid major autobid begins around here. say what you like about WHO the committee picks for at-large spots, but a high quality mid-major or mediocre p5 program is generally going to be a tougher out than the MAC tourney champion most years.

we want the west, and we want a top 4 seed. will we get it? i'm optimistic if we win out-- but who knows?

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-26-2018, 03:52 PM
There was some whining from Few and the players when GU got the 6 against Wyoming because it was one of the worst seedings and draws in the history of the tournament. They deserved a 3 or a 4 at worst. Moreover, when CBS turned its camera to the Zag room after their draw was announced, everyone stood in silence. There may have been a few claps. That caused a massive backlash against the Zags throughout the media. I cannot tell you how many radio guys said they were rooting for Wyoming to beat Gonzaga into submission just based on the team's TV reaction alone. I still know college basketball analysts who still believe that the 6 seed that GU got that year is still one of the worst seedings ever handed to a team in the history of the tourney. It wasn't just the seed. It was because they had to play in high elevation on a Mountain West Conference home floor against a MWC team. The whole building was turned against the Zags. It was a total road game.

What made that loss so frustrating is that it was really the only first round loss that Few has sustained against an opponent who was clearly inferior. I know Davidson was 3 seeds behind GU, but as the Wildcats proved through their elite 8 run, they were probably better than a 10. Just having Curry and McKillop coaching automatically made them better than a 10. Also, the Wyoming loss was what I refer to as the "can't hit a pea in the ocean game." Every hundred games or so a team has a game where the whole rotation can't hit a shot, not matter how wide open they are. The Wyoming game was one of those nights. Dickau and the whole crew had shot after shot after shot they had made the whole year, and just nothing would go in. The Cowboys didn't even play that good. It's a game where I didn't and still don't give Wyoming credit for winning. It's hard for me to fault a team filled with great offensive players who get wide open shot after wide open shot, and they just cannot get anything to go down. You just want to throw your hands up in the air and quit. As I said, it occurs once every hundred games or so. I mean, 15 minutes into the game, the Zags could have just walked off the floor and called a forfeit. Wouldn't have been a good display of sportsmanship, but it was one of those kind of nights. Nothing went in. Nothing.

This is the year I was thinking of CDC. Thank you for the great recap. The angst was justified, I just remember cringing at the public expressions of “we been wronged” as it didn’t seem to serve the players mentality well.

demian
02-26-2018, 08:01 PM
I didn’t think Villanova looked that great against the Zags and that it was a winnable game if the visiting team actually showed up. I didn’t see stifling defense or amazing offense out of Villanova. I saw a Zag team that wasn’t used to giving a good effort for the entire shot clock and acted like they had never seen a pump fake before.

Agreed

Goshzagit
02-26-2018, 08:30 PM
We want to be out West. What seed do we have to get to stay where we are?? I think its a four. I was at the Garden to see us lose to Villanova and the time zone issue was definitely present. if we go East especially dead East it will hurt. Remember Davidson? Re: The Garden. We started out fast and faded. Further, they went right down our throats and only Larsen was able to stop them (and where is he now???). It really hurt when Bridges went right down the middle and slammed one in. The crowd erupted and I felt so mad and still do. No big man to eat him up like in so many years past. And the refs did let them bang. This will catch up to us as we go forward in the Tournament. Right now I see us winning our first game where ever it is and maybe losing our second game.Can't tell if we win this. Will we be out West? Who will we play? When? Do we match up well? Are all our guys going to show up? and this has been an issue for us. Injuries? like Tille last year. If we lose we equate to an 8 seed 16 seeds divided 2) or roughly a 5 seed (16 seeds divided by 3) if we win.It seems to me that our average is between 5.3 and 8. I expect that the committee will seed us somewhere in between either as a five or a six. Sorry, that's the way I see it now. Sure wish Collins was not a one and done. We could really have used him. That the problem with one and done's they tend to kill your program. Go Zags.

Great post overall, couldn't agree more, save the last sentence.

Or maybe those 'one and done's' can help take you to your program's first-ever Final 4 appearance.

Two sides of the coin. We'd be on another level with Collins this season, sure, yet doubt we beat South Carolina in the F4 w/out him, or maybe even get upset vs NW in Rd 2.

sheps001
02-26-2018, 11:47 PM
Great post overall, couldn't agree more, save the last sentence.

Or maybe those 'one and done's' can help take you to your program's first-ever Final 4 appearance.

Two sides of the coin. We'd be on another level with Collins this season, sure, yet doubt we beat South Carolina in the F4 w/out him, or maybe even get upset vs NW in Rd 2.

Do agree about the NU game. Collins putting his hand through the basket saved us. Never have seen this before. And the other Collins (The NU coach) did his part by charging the court and getting immediately T'd up. LOL. What a strange sequence of events. Who could have even thought this would happen. NU wasn't the same after this. Moving to Miami next month. Wish'd the Zags would play a game or two there. Not. LOL.

btzag
02-27-2018, 04:35 AM
Now use the same scrutiny for the teams that you think deserve to be above us and if you're objective, you'll admit that you either under rated us, or over rated them. This year anyone can beat anyone.

Exactly. Also note that not only did Arizona go 1-1 on the week but they also lost Trier for the season and most likely their head coach for the season and still leapfrogged us!

GrizZAG
02-27-2018, 06:55 AM
Ask yourself the question: If we had played Duke's or Virginia's schedule how would we have fared? It's a valid question

Goshzagit
02-27-2018, 07:08 AM
Ask yourself the question: If we had played Duke's or Virginia's schedule how would we have fared? It's a valid question

honestly?

Probably same record, or close to Duke, yet not as good as Virginia. Their defense is unreal.

Duke beat Texas in OT, we beat Texas in OT.

Duke was down 19 vs Florida, before rallying to win by 3. We lost to Florida in double-OT, and had a FT to win it.

Duke lost to Boston College, Virginia Tech, NC State, and St Johns. Those teams aren't any better than BYU, SMC, even SDSU.

Look at Duke's schedule HERE (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/150).

I doubt our results would look all that much different, IF not better (save their impressive win vs MSU).

Is 16-14 Boston College better than 22-9 BYU just b/c they are part of the ACC? Dunno. Doubt it though.

FWIW, Duke has (3) losses vs RPI 51-100. Gonzaga has none. Our only losses were vs Top-50 RPI teams, outside that ridiculous performance vs SDSU.

sheps001
02-27-2018, 07:42 AM
From the Spokesman Review "Villanova hands Gonzaga most lopsided defeat since 2014 loss to Arizona" I was there and it was a beat down. Exposed all of our deficiencies and I have gone into these in this thread. And I'm an optimist!

GoZags
02-27-2018, 07:46 AM
From the Spokesman Review "Villanova hands Gonzaga most lopsided defeat since 2014 loss to Arizona" I was there and it was a beat down. Exposed all of our deficiencies and I have gone into these in this thread. And I'm an optimist!

You need to bring this up a few more times. ie how badly we played. That you were there. I think there is a thread or two still on the first page that this isn’t mentioned on.

zagdontzig
02-27-2018, 07:46 AM
It's crazy to think the only team that scares me is Villanova, and not because we're so good, but because the field isn't that great this year. I honestly believe the title race is wide open this year. It feels like anyone above the 8 line can win it all this year.

sittingon50
02-27-2018, 07:58 AM
Good morning GZ.

:lmao:

Hoopaholic
02-27-2018, 08:11 AM
From the Spokesman Review "Villanova hands Gonzaga most lopsided defeat since 2014 loss to Arizona" I was there and it was a beat down. Exposed all of our deficiencies and I have gone into these in this thread. And I'm an optimist!

lather, rinse, repeat seems to be your mantra

I honestly am not sure if any of your posts this year did NOT include the fact that you were there and that it was a beat down in your opinion....about the only thing you didnt include that you have in the past is "where is larson"

thespywhozaggedme
02-27-2018, 08:18 AM
Ask yourself the question: If we had played Duke's or Virginia's schedule how would we have fared? It's a valid question

it's so weird that our own fans pose these hypotheticals, it's usual P5 elitist fans that say we wouldn't have our record if we played their schedule in their conference. But here is what they, and you seem to never think through; we would have even better players if we were in the ACC. Do you know how many stud recruits we've lost because we play in the WCC and all of the negative recruiting opposing coaches do against us? If we were in the ACC, we'd be even better because we'd have even better layers than we do now, if that's possible.

ZagDad84
02-27-2018, 08:39 AM
From the Spokesman Review "Villanova hands Gonzaga most lopsided defeat since 2014 loss to Arizona" I was there and it was a beat down. Exposed all of our deficiencies and I have gone into these in this thread. And I'm an optimist!

I see headline after headline (including today on ESPN.com) about NC, Kentucky, Duke, etc. finally figuring (???) it out. With all their new players and one-and-done'ers, it has taken them most of the season and they are "finally" figuring it out. I understand this. You replace 60-100% of your team year after year with a bunch of gifted, single-minded, individuals, it takes time to get them to learn to play as a team, at least some of the time.

How come you want to hold a game played the first week of December, 3-time zones away, against a Top 5 team with most of their starters returning, against Gonzaga, who lost NWG, JM, Karno, ZC, etc. Did the Zags not need time to learn to play as a team? Get the freshman and RS freshman up to speed and on court experience? Just because the Zags have to schedule a difficult OOC schedule and play most of their most difficult games in November and December does not mean that we should not be granted the same opportunity as the Blue Bloods.

Are the Zags a better team today then they were 12/5? I venture not only better but significantly better. Would they play a better game today against Villinova then they did on 12/5? Again, I say the game would be much closer and if played on the West Coast a possible Zag Victory.

Comparing the 12/5 Zag team to the 2/27 Zag team is comparing apples and oranges. Esentially two (2) total different entities except that they are both fruit.

ZagDad

Hoopaholic
02-27-2018, 09:00 AM
I see headline after headline (including today on ESPN.com) about NC, Kentucky, Duke, etc. finally figuring (???) it out. With all their new players and one-and-done'ers, it has taken them most of the season and they are "finally" figuring it out. I understand this. You replace 60-100% of your team year after year with a bunch of gifted, single-minded, individuals, it takes time to get them to learn to play as a team, at least some of the time.

How come you want to hold a game played the first week of December, 3-time zones away, against a Top 5 team with most of their starters returning, against Gonzaga, who lost NWG, JM, Karno, ZC, etc. Did the Zags not need time to learn to play as a team? Get the freshman and RS freshman up to speed and on court experience? Just because the Zags have to schedule a difficult OOC schedule and play most of their most difficult games in November and December does not mean that we should not be granted the same opportunity as the Blue Bloods.

Are the Zags a better team today then they were 12/5? I venture not only better but significantly better. Would they play a better game today against Villinova then they did on 12/5? Again, I say the game would be much closer and if played on the West Coast a possible Zag Victory.

Comparing the 12/5 Zag team to the 2/27 Zag team is comparing apples and oranges. Esentially two (2) total different entities except that they are both fruit.

ZagDad

we also had a starter not available to us for this game which had serious impact IMO

DixieZag
02-27-2018, 09:01 AM
it's so weird that our own fans pose these hypotheticals, it's usual P5 elitist fans that say we wouldn't have our record if we played their schedule in their conference. But here is what they, and you seem to never think through; we would have even better players if we were in the ACC. Do you know how many stud recruits we've lost because we play in the WCC and all of the negative recruiting opposing coaches do against us? If we were in the ACC, we'd be even better because we'd have even better layers than we do now, if that's possible.

"We would have even better players if we were in the ACC"

Spy, I think you just crossed the event-horizon in arguing that we deserve the same respect as the teams in the ACC and are just as good, because right there you just about announced that our players (as a group) aren't as good as the ones we would have if we played in the ACC.

I hear what you're saying.

There are limits to the argument, however. I think Goshzagit has a thorough and sober analysis arguing we'd have about the same number of losses as Duke were we in the ACC, though whereas we lost our "Top 5" game to Villanova, Duke won theirs against Michigan State, which is just one game but it's one that we'd highlight one hell of a lot if we had it in our bag.

Nothing shameful about agreeing we'd have a few more losses, probably 2-3 more, maybe 4-5 if we were in the Big 12, but we wouldn't have been playing AT San Diego State if we were in the Big 12, so things kind of work out to where we'd be.

We are sitting pretty right in with the group that comes after Villanova, MSU, and Virginia. It seems to me there's those 3, and then a group of about 10 that are all about the same. We're in that group, but without much means to move up.

GoZag
02-27-2018, 09:19 AM
honest question: does it really matter if we are a 4 vs 5? play a 13 vs 12... then play either a 4/5. Seems trivial to me. Now if it were a 7 vs 8.. then I'd be upset. But a 4/5 is identical.

a 4 seed means we play in Boise and will have a lot more fan support.

RenoZag
02-27-2018, 09:54 AM
Playing in Boise as a four seed would also mean the Zags would be in either the East or Midwest Region (and further from home for the second weekend if they survive and advance)

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

The Regional Sites:

Midwest Regional Omaha March 23 & 25
West Regional Los Angeles March 22 & 24
South Regional Atlanta March 22 & 24
East Regional Boston March 23 & 25

amaronizag
02-27-2018, 10:04 AM
The latest Lunardi bracket is far from a final product, but I'd take that West 5 seed in a heart beat over the other 3 regions.

23dpg
02-27-2018, 10:30 AM
I would like to stay out west, so San Diego please.

thespywhozaggedme
02-27-2018, 10:43 AM
"We would have even better players if we were in the ACC"

Spy, I think you just crossed the event-horizon in arguing that we deserve the same respect as the teams in the ACC and are just as good, because right there you just about announced that our players (as a group) aren't as good as the ones we would have if we played in the ACC.

I hear what you're saying.

There are limits to the argument, however. I think Goshzagit has a thorough and sober analysis arguing we'd have about the same number of losses as Duke were we in the ACC, though whereas we lost our "Top 5" game to Villanova, Duke won theirs against Michigan State, which is just one game but it's one that we'd highlight one hell of a lot if we had it in our bag.

Nothing shameful about agreeing we'd have a few more losses, probably 2-3 more, maybe 4-5 if we were in the Big 12, but we wouldn't have been playing AT San Diego State if we were in the Big 12, so things kind of work out to where we'd be.

We are sitting pretty right in with the group that comes after Villanova, MSU, and Virginia. It seems to me there's those 3, and then a group of about 10 that are all about the same. We're in that group, but without much means to move up.

I think you missed my point. P5 elitists always say, "Do you think you'd have the same record if you were in such and such conference" and I always come back with "the same or even better" because we're already awesome playing in a crap conference, imagine how many recruits would have said yes to us and how much more money we would make if we were in said conference.

gonstu
02-27-2018, 11:06 AM
Playing in Boise as a four seed would also mean the Zags would be in either the East or Midwest Region (and further from home for the second weekend if they survive and advance)

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

The Regional Sites:

Midwest Regional Omaha March 23 & 25
West Regional Los Angeles March 22 & 24
South Regional Atlanta March 22 & 24
East Regional Boston March 23 & 25

Don't think that's how it works. Pretty sure any of the opening locations could feed into any of the regionals. No reason 1 of the Boise advancers couldn't feed into the West Regional.

RenoZag
02-27-2018, 11:20 AM
Don't think that's how it works. Pretty sure any of the opening locations could feed into any of the regionals. No reason 1 of the Boise advancers couldn't feed into the West Regional.

You are correct, gonstu. I shouldn't have assumed the Boise Pod will feed a given region (as laid out in Lunardi's -- or any other-- bracket ) Thanks for setting me straight

From Lunardi's FAQ


For the 16th time, the NCAA men's basketball committee will not predetermine the regional designation of each of the eight sub-regional sites (what it calls the "pod" system). This gives the committee increased flexibility to reduce travel for teams and fans, as well as create more local interest at sub-regional sites that may not be traditional basketball areas. For example, the sub regional site in Pittsburgh could send its winners to Los Angeles (West Regional) instead of, say, the East Regional in Boston, if the committee thinks it makes more geographic sense for the teams involved.

ZagzKrak
02-27-2018, 11:24 AM
I think it will be tough for us to get Boise though considering every mid-west/east coast team is going to be closer to Boise then San Diego.

gonstu
02-27-2018, 11:25 AM
I think it will be tough for us to get Boise though considering every mid-west/east coast team is going to be closer to Boise then San Diego.

If zags get san diego I'll survive. Already have the day off work :)

sheps001
02-27-2018, 02:40 PM
Yes I've mentioned it several times in the past but primarily in the context of the exposing our deficiencies which have repeatedly reared their ugly heads. YOU were the one that said this was a very winnable game and the fact of matter it wasn't even close. And I chose to disagree with your statement and give my reasons why. What's wrong with that??? And I am a dyed in the wool Zags fan.

Maybe it made more of an impression on me since I'd been waiting for this game for years and years. A good friend of mine went to Villanova and we'd been jawing over what would happen if they met for years and years. I hate to see the Zags lose. I'm in Chicago and I've seen them lose more than once. Illinois and Notre Dame. In fact I've actually seen them lose more than Ive seen them win!. I do remember a big big win with Sacre over Illinois in front of over 18K fans and that was great. So just my two cents worth. The most important thing is Go Zags! We have a national following and I always get good comments when I wear my colors here.

raise the zag
02-27-2018, 03:44 PM
Yes I've mentioned it several times in the past but primarily in the context of the exposing our deficiencies which have repeatedly reared their ugly heads. YOU were the one that said this was a very winnable game and the fact of matter it wasn't even close. And I chose to disagree with your statement and give my reasons why. What's wrong with that??? And I am a dyed in the wool Zags fan.

Maybe it made more of an impression on me since I'd been waiting for this game for years and years. A good friend of mine went to Villanova and we'd been jawing over what would happen if they met for years and years. I hate to see the Zags lose. I'm in Chicago and I've seen them lose more than once. Illinois and Notre Dame. In fact I've actually seen them lose more than Ive seen them win!. I do remember a big big win with Sacre over Illinois in front of over 18K fans and that was great. So just my two cents worth. The most important thing is Go Zags! We have a national following and I always get good comments when I wear my colors here.

let it go man. understand you're a committed fan, yet obviously taking this loss personally.

it was a tough loss, agreed. honestly, I'd like another shot at 'Nova in the Tourney, preferably Elite 8, but I'll take Sweet 16. A 2nd week of playing would be gravy this season, imo.

Fwiw, if it makes you feel better, Villanova beat #3 Xavier by 25 pts the first time around, and then by 26 pts the second time they played! They blew out a consensus Top-5 team, and #1 seed by nearly 30 pts (Zags lost by 16 pts, just sayin')

Heck, they beat #24 Creighton by 20 pts! We beat Creighton by 18. The Blue Jays turned around and beat 'Nova last week too. It happens.

Not into transitive property in NCAAB, yet this must make you feel better.

U Zig, I Zag
02-27-2018, 04:16 PM
I think with the Nova game we just played poorly. We better before the game and better since, but Nova exposed some weaknesses for sure (mainly getting used to PK being gone would take longer than expected). I will say that I didnt get ‘overmatched’ feeling that I have in the past.

Being there makes a difference too. I remember being floor level at the arena when one of those Memphis teams came to town and I can’t remember the score now but we were clearly outmatched. The difference athletically was so apparent.

Don’t get that feeling in a rematch with Nova. But that could make GU look pretty poor if we let them get to the rim and fouled them on every singe shot.