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View Full Version : OT: FBI wiretaps show Sean Miller discussed $100K payment to lock recruit



VinnyZag
02-23-2018, 06:13 PM
ESPN story (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22559284/sean-miller-arizona-christian-dawkins-discussed-payment-ensure-deandre-ayton-signing-according-fbi-investigation). Seems like a pretty big deal.

Sandpointzagsfan
02-23-2018, 06:16 PM
Just saw that. Just WOW!

bballbeachbum
02-23-2018, 06:23 PM
here we go
WOW

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 06:27 PM
Beat me too it. I knew it. Boom!

Bogozags
02-23-2018, 06:30 PM
If Coach Miller is found to have known about the money, then it would seem his career as a D-1 coach might well be over...

KStyles
02-23-2018, 06:32 PM
If Coach Miller is found to have known about the money, then it would seem his career as a D-1 coach might well be over...

Until his show-cause expires... (Bruce Pearl, Kelvin Sampson)

Mantua
02-23-2018, 06:34 PM
Which recruit?

When will Miller resign? Tomorrow or after the NCAA Tournament or never?

KStyles
02-23-2018, 06:37 PM
Which recruit?

When will Miller resign? Tomorrow or after the NCAA Tournament or never?

Ayton.

Later tonight/tomorrow am, or he "doesn't know anything about it" and rides it out.

Sandpointzagsfan
02-23-2018, 06:40 PM
Ayton.

Later tonight/tomorrow am, or he "doesn't know anything about it" and rides it out.

I don’t know if he can ride this one out. Caught in wiretaps telling Dawkins he will pay 100k.

KStyles
02-23-2018, 06:46 PM
I don’t know if he can ride this one out. Caught in wiretaps telling Dawkins he will pay 100k.

I doubt he can ride it out as well, but him being caught in wiretaps was all "according to sources", so I'll leave open a window for UA.

VinnyZag
02-23-2018, 06:46 PM
Would Arizona potentially decline an NCAA tournament invite this year, knowing they're going to have to vacate it anyway because the Ayton recruitment was tainted?

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 06:47 PM
Would Arizona potentially decline an NCAA tournament invite this year, knowing they're going to have to vacate it anyway because the Ayton recruitment was tainted?

yes, they're toast

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 06:48 PM
Wonder if they get the death penalty. All of their recruits will be under severe scrutiny and will be let out of their loi's. Makes us the preeminent west coast bball power!

Sandpointzagsfan
02-23-2018, 06:49 PM
I doubt he can ride it out as well, but him being caught in wiretaps was all "according to sources", so I'll leave open a window for UA.


Ya your right. It is innocent until proven guilty.

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 06:50 PM
Ya your right. It is innocent until proven guilty.

It's fbi wiretaps, who's gonna make that up?

Mantua
02-23-2018, 06:51 PM
I don’t know if he can ride this one out. Caught in wiretaps telling Dawkins he will pay 100k.

That was really dumb!

You would think that he would taken the trouble to talk with Dawkins in person if he was willing to pay out 100 grand.

KStyles
02-23-2018, 06:57 PM
It's fbi wiretaps, who's gonna make that up?

The wiretaps are "according to sources".

I agree that its 99.9% likely, but these haven't been confirmed.

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 07:06 PM
The wiretaps are "according to sources".

I agree that its 99.9% likely, but these haven't been confirmed.

Yes, and what "source" is gonna involve the fbi if it wasn't true? Zona's done, Miller will be gone by tomorrow at the latest and Ayton has played his last game. Recruits will all bail. They're toast. Read their board, their own fans are resolved:

http://beardownwildcats.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59&start=4200

strikenowhere
02-23-2018, 07:11 PM
Dang - there are 3,000 hrs of wiretapped phone conversations. Sean Miller is a drop in the bucket here. He's DONE.

Mantua
02-23-2018, 07:12 PM
Is there a penalty for the players who took the money? I’m thinking about Kyle Kuzma who is a terrific rookie for the Lakers.

KStyles
02-23-2018, 07:13 PM
Yes, and what "source" is gonna involve the fbi if it wasn't true? Zona's done, Miller will be gone by tomorrow at the latest and Ayton has played his last game. Recruits will all bail. They're toast. Read their board, their own fans are resolved:

http://beardownwildcats.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59&start=4200

Any source? It's not like claiming the FBI as a source is a truth serum.

I agree with you, it's extremely likely he was involved/guilty, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt until confirmed.

strikenowhere
02-23-2018, 07:14 PM
Is there a penalty for the players who took the money? I’m thinking about Kyle Kuzma who is a terrific rookie for the Lakers.

I don't think there is anything that can be done to players that went pro - maybe if they graduated with a degree it could be revoked? As for current players they're gonna be persona non grata at their respective programs pretty soon.

basketballzag
02-23-2018, 07:18 PM
Any source? It's not like claiming the FBI as a source is a truth serum.

I agree with you, it's extremely likely he was involved/guilty, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt until confirmed.

Arizona will announce Miller's departure first thing Monday morning. Look for LSU's Wade to be a hot commodity to replace him

BTW I called this several months ago when the FBI visited Miller at his house.

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 07:19 PM
Any source? It's not like claiming the FBI as a source is a truth serum.

I agree with you, it's extremely likely he was involved/guilty, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt until confirmed.

Ugh, if it wasn't true, the fbi would immediately put out a press release denying this; they haven't because it's true. Zona is done.

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 07:20 PM
Arizona will announce Miller's departure first thing Monday morning. Look for LSU's Wade to be a hot commodity to replace him

They're not gonna wait until Monday, they have a game tomorrow. He''ll be relieved of his duties tonight, or early tomorrow. Ayton's done too.

KStyles
02-23-2018, 07:24 PM
According to Kevin Connors on Sportscenter, Arizona offerered one of Miller's statements from October as comment.

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 07:24 PM
This is what one of the Arizona message board insiders thinks is/should happen:

The way forward out of this hellish mess:

Assuming this is true........and Heeke needs to get Miller in his office in front of him ASAP and demand a full accounting:

1) Fire Miller...........asap
2) Suspend Ayton from the team.........immediately
3) After consultation with the NCAA......Self Sanction immediately including NOT playing in the upcoming NCAA tourney.
Please don't shriek "Win and Vacate" at me. That slogan was always silly, if not downright stupid. Without Trier/Ayton we
are not going anywhere. By taking the NCAA sanction hit now it will speed the recovery process for the program. If missing
the 2018 tourney coupled with firing the coach and accepting the loss of a scholarship or two will placate the NCAA we should
take it and RUN. This would allow the next coach to start recruiting the 2019 class without the threat of further sanctions
hanging over the program
4) Hire a new coach NOT IMPLICATED in the scandal. The Cincy/TTech coaches both look good to me. The faster we get out ahead
of the "hiring a new coach game" the better...........there will be a number of other programs that will probably end up firing
their coaches which will result in coaches like Cronin seeing a rapid rise in their market value

http://beardownwildcats.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59&start=4200

Hoopaholic
02-23-2018, 07:30 PM
Is there a penalty for the players who took the money? I’m thinking about Kyle Kuzma who is a terrific rookie for the Lakers.

IRS

raise the zag
02-23-2018, 07:37 PM
Doubt this holds

Any good attorney would have this dismissed as nothing more than a passing comment...

"I'd pay a million dollars to have a Snickers ice cream bar on this hot day."

That's all it is.

We know butter but this recording wont hold up.

No proof of anything. Just happenstance while speaking about how badly he wanted Ayton to be a Wildcat

As is, "he'd give anything, even a 100 grand to get this kid to commit".

But no evidence of paying anyone, anything.

Sean was just saying he would be willing to lay out all the stops...

That's it. Just discourse.

While we know there was most likely more, this is soft case

willandi
02-23-2018, 07:41 PM
Is there a penalty for the players who took the money? I’m thinking about Kyle Kuzma who is a terrific rookie for the Lakers.


I don't think there is anything that can be done to players that went pro - maybe if they graduated with a degree it could be revoked? As for current players they're gonna be persona non grata at their respective programs pretty soon.

If they broke federal law, and are still within the statutes of limitation, there is no reason for them NOT to be charged and tried. Then jailed.

They knew it was against the law and did it anyway. There needs to be examples made. Maybe lighter sentences, but still sentenced.

After ALL the fallout is dealt with, going forward laws can be changed, athletes can be paid, but those that commited the crime need to do the time.

willandi
02-23-2018, 07:45 PM
Is there a penalty for the players who took the money? I’m thinking about Kyle Kuzma who is a terrific rookie for the Lakers.


Doubt this holds

Any good attorney would have this dismissed as nothing more than a passing comment...

"I'd pay a million dollars to have a Snickers ice cream bar on this hot day."

That's all it is.

We know butter but this recording wont hold up.

No proof of anything. Just happenstance while speaking about how badly he wanted Ayton to be a Wildcat

As is, "he'd give anything, even a 100 grand to get this kid to commit".

But no evidence of paying anyone, anything.

Sean was just saying he would be willing to lay out all the stops...

That's it. Just discourse.

While we know there was most likely more, this is soft case

Will you please share the entire transcript?

I think you are just guessing. I believe that the FBI wiretap is more than conjecture. I think Miller is done and gone.

Reborn
02-23-2018, 07:49 PM
I don't know how the idea that athletes aren't paid to play college ball. They all receive, or could receive a college degree, and that adds up to thousands of dollars. To me a college degree is worth far more than a $70,000 pay-out. what's a college degree worth now at GU? I hope the NCAA NEVER agrees to pay college athletes. College basketball's beauty has always been that the athletes are not paid, and therefore not professional. The kids play for the love of the game, just like they always did. I believe if individuals have been involved in paying the athletes or their parents, or both, then they should suffer the consequences. That's what laws are for. I hope if individuals are found guilty that they suffer a lot for the consequences. I'm sorry but I'm not one who feels sympathy for the athletes or coaches, and the excuse that everyone does it is just lame. I'm tired of coaches breaking the law and getting away with it. I'm tired of Universities turning their heads as if to not see what's going on, They should know if they don't.

I'm so glad we have the kind of coaches we have at GU and Mark Few is one coach who has done it the right way, and is so respected for doing it that way. Clean. I will sleep tonight knowing Gonzaga is not involved in this sort of thing.

Go Zags!!!

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 07:50 PM
Doubt this holds

Any good attorney would have this dismissed as nothing more than a passing comment...

"I'd pay a million dollars to have a Snickers ice cream bar on this hot day."

That's all it is.

We know butter but this recording wont hold up.

No proof of anything. Just happenstance while speaking about how badly he wanted Ayton to be a Wildcat

As is, "he'd give anything, even a 100 grand to get this kid to commit".

But no evidence of paying anyone, anything.

Sean was just saying he would be willing to lay out all the stops...

That's it. Just discourse.

While we know there was most likely more, this is soft case

Sarcasm? The dude is gonna be fired before tomorrows game, book it, Aytons done, the program is toast. There's over 3000 hours of wiretaps, you think Zona is the only school that paid for stud recruits. This is HUGE!

VinnyZag
02-23-2018, 07:50 PM
Also, this isn't ONLY a courtroom issue. The NCAA can still crack down on Arizona, even if that wiretap doesn't hold up in court. And Arizona can still fire Miller, even if that tape doesn't hold up.

basketballzag
02-23-2018, 07:54 PM
Trier as they might there is no way Sean Miller and Arizona get out of this.

PS Malik Pope was suspended tonight bySDSU for his role in the FBI investigation.

basketballzag
02-23-2018, 07:56 PM
Trier as they might there is no way Sean Miller and Arizona get out of this.

PS Malik Pope was suspended tonight bySDSU for his role in the FBI investigation.

PPS Kansas is also screwed with the Ayton news because Sean Miller was in a bidding war with them to sign him.

btzag
02-23-2018, 07:57 PM
If Arizona does not fire Miller, that is a much more serious problem for that university.

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 08:08 PM
Trier as they might there is no way Sean Miller and Arizona get out of this.

PS Malik Pope was suspended tonight bySDSU for his role in the FBI investigation.

I saw what you did there, nice little pun.

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 08:09 PM
PPS Kansas is also screwed with the Ayton news because Sean Miller was in a bidding war with them to sign him.

And Arizona was in a bidding war with Duke for Bagley who went to high school with Ayton. Duke is in deep Doo Doo also. My two least favorite programs in the country, Duke and Arizona are going down hard.

RenoZag
02-23-2018, 08:20 PM
Miller didn't lose all that weight from good diet & exercise; he lost it from the stress of being a freakin' crooked b@stard. . .

thespywhozaggedme
02-23-2018, 08:31 PM
Miller didn't lose all that weight from good diet & exercise; he lost it from the stress of being a freakin' crooked b@stard. . .

I have a feeling all of the blue bloods are going to go down, and go down hard. Believe me I highly doubt Ayton was the only study recruit getting paid. I just hope to God that we are not involved in anyway shape or form. I mean Zach Collins is the only Mickey Dees All American we've ever had and he was one and done but maybe it's my homerism I just don't think that's the kind of operation that Few runs.

Zags11
02-23-2018, 08:34 PM
I have a feeling all of the blue bloods are going to go down, and go down hard. Believe me I highly doubt Ayton was the only study recruit getting paid. I just hope to God that we are not involved in anyway shape or form. I mean Zach Collins is the only Mickey Dees All American we've ever had and he was one and done but maybe it's my homerism I just don't think that's the kind of operation that Few runs.

I hope not. We also don't get NBA recruits like a duke or AZ. I'm nervous but hold faith we are fine.

TexasZagFan
02-23-2018, 08:38 PM
I don't know how the idea that athletes aren't paid to play college ball. They all receive, or could receive a college degree, and that adds up to thousands of dollars. To me a college degree is worth far more than a $70,000 pay-out. what's a college degree worth now at GU? I hope the NCAA NEVER agrees to pay college athletes. College basketball's beauty has always been that the athletes are not paid, and therefore not professional. The kids play for the love of the game, just like they always did. I believe if individuals have been involved in paying the athletes or their parents, or both, then they should suffer the consequences. That's what laws are for. I hope if individuals are found guilty that they suffer a lot for the consequences. I'm sorry but I'm not one who feels sympathy for the athletes or coaches, and the excuse that everyone does it is just lame. I'm tired of coaches breaking the law and getting away with it. I'm tired of Universities turning their heads as if to not see what's going on, They should know if they don't.

I'm so glad we have the kind of coaches we have at GU and Mark Few is one coach who has done it the right way, and is so respected for doing it that way. Clean. I will sleep tonight knowing Gonzaga is not involved in this sort of thing.

Go Zags!!!

I'm with you Bornie. Yes, the landscape has changed...however, no matter how much you pay the players, it will never be enough...so, why start on a path leading to absolutely no good?

The only solution I see is to handle scholarship athletes like they do for ROTC students: pay for all educational expenses, plus a monthly stipend (now $500-$600 a month, I was paid $100 a month when I was at GU). There's plenty of money nowadays to do that for everyone, just pay them the same. If the studs in the revenue sports don't like it, let them turn pro.

For the guilty ones, I want perp walks and prison time if convicted.

TexasZagFan
02-23-2018, 08:39 PM
And Arizona was in a bidding war with Duke for Bagley who went to high school with Ayton. Duke is in deep Doo Doo also. My two least favorite programs in the country, Duke and Arizona are going down hard.

And Mark Cuban is on his knees tonight, thanking God for getting him off the front pages.

TexasZagFan
02-23-2018, 08:41 PM
I hope not. We also don't get NBA recruits like a duke or AZ. I'm nervous but hold faith we are fine.

We're fine. Hell, the Gonzaga campus is so small, everyone knows who cut class that day. It was much easier to identify the culprits back in my day, when there were 2000 undergrads on campus, but the principle remains the same.

willandi
02-23-2018, 08:43 PM
Colin Cowherd this morning said that Silver, NBA commish, is going to start academies for gifted basketball players. They will be able to attend the academy high schools and graduate to the G league and/or NBA.

No more one and done.

coolhandzag
02-23-2018, 08:46 PM
Doubt this holds

Any good attorney would have this dismissed as nothing more than a passing comment...

"I'd pay a million dollars to have a Snickers ice cream bar on this hot day."

That's all it is.

We know butter but this recording wont hold up.

No proof of anything. Just happenstance while speaking about how badly he wanted Ayton to be a Wildcat

As is, "he'd give anything, even a 100 grand to get this kid to commit".

But no evidence of paying anyone, anything.

Sean was just saying he would be willing to lay out all the stops...

That's it. Just discourse.

While we know there was most likely more, this is soft case

You could be correct, but I disagree. You could attempt that course, but success is no where as certain as you proclaim it to be. ANY GOOD attorney would inform you of the many factors that may or may not imply including the multitude of jurisdictional codes, to how the coffee upset the Judge's tummy that that day. Good, bad, indifferent it depends on too many variables to say for certainty a wiretap will be dismissed as hearsay.

The Feds already know everything they need to. An order of magnitude compared to what has been currently displayed. At the least.

My guess would be that this is only the beginning for Miller and others.

TexasZagFan
02-23-2018, 08:46 PM
Colin Cowherd this morning said that Silver, NBA commish, is going to start academies for gifted basketball players. They will be able to attend the academy high schools and graduate to the G league and/or NBA.

No more one and done.

We knew this was coming. Adam Silver is a very progressive fellow, and knows that the NBA can no longer look to the NCAA for free player development anymore.

TexasZagFan
02-23-2018, 08:48 PM
You could be correct, but I disagree. You could attempt that course, but success is no where as certain as you proclaim it to be. ANY GOOD attorney would inform you of the many factors that may or may not imply including the multitude of jurisdictional codes, to how the coffee upset the Judge's tummy that that day. Good, bad, indifferent it depends on too many variables to say for certainty a wiretap will be dismissed as hearsay.

The Feds already know everything they need to. A fraction of what has been currently displayed. My guess would be that this is only the beginning for Miller and others.

You better believe banks have turned over financial records for accounts requested under a subpoena.

willandi
02-23-2018, 08:48 PM
We knew this was coming. Adam Silver is a very progressive fellow, and knows that the NBA can no longer look to the NCAA for free player development anymore.

It has to be good for the NCAA. They may lose out on the best, but the rest will have a level playing field.

23dpg
02-23-2018, 08:51 PM
Arizona will announce Miller's departure first thing Monday morning. Look for LSU's Wade to be a hot commodity to replace him

BTW I called this several months ago when the FBI visited Miller at his house.

HO-LE Sh!t

Yes , I do remember you saying that. Did you know something or just guessing?

TexasZagFan
02-23-2018, 08:51 PM
It has to be good for the NCAA. They may lose out on the best, but the rest will have a level playing field.

Agreed, we're only talking about a handful of players. There are very few teams that rely on the one and dones. Bodes well for teams like GU, who really develop their players over a 3-5 year period.

KStyles
02-23-2018, 08:59 PM
I believe GU has ran a clean program, but even the mention of money in the past on this board has me a little bit concerned.

coolhandzag
02-23-2018, 09:03 PM
You better believe banks have turned over financial records for accounts requested under a subpoena.

Almost certainly. This is only the beginning. Let’s see if Miller cut a deal. My guess is he did.

krozman
02-23-2018, 09:20 PM
Man...... the 5 stages the fans must be going through right now.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-23-2018, 09:32 PM
Curious to see how Coach K’s smug shot looks whenever he gets in front of a camera and discusses this, if he ever does. That’s one program I won’t mind seeing get some come uppance

Zagceo
02-23-2018, 09:35 PM
When college coaches get paid MILLIONS because “amateur athletics” provide entertainment that creates a BILLION dollar TV contract....who woulda thunk there’d be a problem

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-23-2018, 09:39 PM
UA Board of Regents should be part of the fallout too. What benefactor / Donor would Trust this school w their money after decisions like this?:


Miller, 49, is a three-time Pac-12 Conference Coach of the Year and has a 242-72 record in his ninth season with the Wildcats. The Arizona Board of Regents approved a contact extension for him in February 2017, which increased his annual salary to at least $2.9 million through 2022. He has denied knowledge of Richardson's alleged scheme to bribe players to sign with Arizona.

"As the head basketball coach at the University of Arizona, I recognize my responsibility is not only to establish a culture of success on the basketball court and in the classroom, but as important, to promote and reinforce a culture of compliance," Miller said in a statement released in September. "To the best of my ability, I have worked to demonstrate this over the past eight years and will continue to do so as we move forward."

If Miller is fired for cause, his contract is written in such a way that he would still receive more than 85 percent of the money he is owed through May 31, 2022.

Miller's contract provides that even if he is fired with cause, the university would have to pay his base salary. The contract defines his base salary as his salary plus his peripheral salary. That adds up to roughly $10.3 million through May 2022. The only part that Miller wouldn't be entitled to is $1.7 million from Nike and IMG that is due to him if he completes his contract.

sittingon50
02-23-2018, 10:08 PM
Yes, and what "source" is gonna involve the fbi if it wasn't true? Zona's done, Miller will be gone by tomorrow at the latest and Ayton has played his last game. Recruits will all bail. They're toast. Read their board, their own fans are resolved:

http://beardownwildcats.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59&start=4200

Thanks for the link, spy.

CarolinaZagFan
02-24-2018, 02:12 AM
LOL! Where’s seacatfan? Your scumbag Coach can’t even buy his way to the Final Four :roll:

kitzbuel
02-24-2018, 02:42 AM
Well, I hope this doesn’t mean the end of the Mark Few/Tommy Lloyd era.

509er
02-24-2018, 05:11 AM
Well, I hope this doesn’t mean the end of the Mark Few/Tommy Lloyd era.

The FBI doesnt have jurisdiction in Europe. (Sarcasm, I hope).

509er
02-24-2018, 05:12 AM
UA Board of Regents should be part of the fallout too. What benefactor / Donor would Trust this school w their money after decisions like this?:

Wow. Whoever wrote that contract should be fired.

kitzbuel
02-24-2018, 06:26 AM
The FBI doesnt have jurisdiction in Europe. (Sarcasm, I hope).Think of what value a successful recruiting, clean coach now commands on the market place.

Our recruits are going to be under pressure now too.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

RenoZag
02-24-2018, 06:33 AM
Wow. Whoever wrote that contract should be fired.

Miller had better representation than the university. . .

Birddog
02-24-2018, 06:48 AM
I don't see how any of these allegations against Miller could be true. I'm pretty sure I remember the U of A Admin conducting an internal investigation back in Oct and releasing a statement that Miller was in the clear. Can anybody verify that?

Zagceo
02-24-2018, 06:54 AM
Well, I hope this doesn’t mean the end of the Mark Few/Tommy Lloyd era.

could be the retirement opportunity of a lifetime for Mark Few.....ask double what Miller was making and sign a 6 year contract and retire after completion.

could be a bidding War Ducks & Cats ....

77Zag
02-24-2018, 09:16 AM
Sean will be on the tweet trolling like Keating soon...

Sad story for sure

TimberZag
02-24-2018, 09:49 AM
Yes, and what "source" is gonna involve the fbi if it wasn't true? Zona's done, Miller will be gone by tomorrow at the latest and Ayton has played his last game. Recruits will all bail. They're toast. Read their board, their own fans are resolved:

http://beardownwildcats.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59&start=4200

Thanks for the link. Reading all the comments on that thread was depressing. Feel sorry for their devoted fans. Just think, today was their game day - best day - they wake up this morning and realize the nightmare is real. Terrible times.

I know I’ll be watching ESPN tonight to see if Romar coaches...

GorgeZag
02-24-2018, 10:42 AM
How does paying players a stipend or a wage help end this? There will still be shady people offering them more money to sign with their school.

NEC26
02-24-2018, 11:04 AM
How does paying players a stipend or a wage help end this? There will still be shady people offering them more money to sign with their school.

Exactly, has absolutely nothing to do with this scandal whatsoever. Just people pushing their agenda through any available means.

U Zig, I Zag
02-24-2018, 11:10 AM
My solution would be:

NBA doesn’t take one and dones anymore. Two years college.
NBA expands and invests in D league.
Some kids will take chances on D-league stuff, the draft, etc.
Kids get one shot under 20 to move from D-league to College. 2 year clock starts then.
D-league draft and separate nba draft. Can only be nba or dleague drafted senior year of HS or at 18.
Stipend of some sort. Ability to work, etc for athletes. (This is the hardest part)

NEC26
02-24-2018, 11:16 AM
Yet none of those things stops coaches from doing whatever it takes to get top recruits. Bottom line is some coaches will do whatever it takes to win. And the other bottom line is the NCAA will never ever truly come down hard on the big boys for doing it. They are already scapegoating the SYSTEM rather than the pepretrators.
Its absolute nonsense to blame the rules and rule makers for breaking the rules rather than the ones actually breaking the rules. Arizona should get the death penalty for something as bad as this, if true. Arizona has doubled down on protecting Miller and found their scapegoat in the assistant as if Miller doesn't tell his assistants who and what they should go after and how.

GrizZAG
02-24-2018, 11:20 AM
All over the news here in PX. Just cause shown for wiretap, got him dead to right. An assistant coach was in that group of ten that were arrested. Really ugly down here.

Hoopaholic
02-24-2018, 11:23 AM
Miller tells his kids not coaching tonight

thespywhozaggedme
02-24-2018, 11:34 AM
Miller tells his kids not coaching tonight

So Aytons gotta be out too then, no?

23dpg
02-24-2018, 11:43 AM
So Aytons gotta be out too then, no?

I wonder if they let him play. It would be a big FU to the NCAA and FBI, but what are they going to do?

Birddog
02-24-2018, 12:13 PM
Lonzo Ball says
Everybody knows everybody’s getting paid. Might as well make it legal’

https://sports.yahoo.com/lonzo-ball-college-basketball-everybody-212801293.html

amaronizag
02-24-2018, 12:23 PM
Just saw the news flash. Sean Miller caught in wiretap discussing $100K payment to recruit.

former1dog
02-24-2018, 12:25 PM
4 page thread started last night

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?62431-OT-FBI-wiretaps-show-Sean-Miller-discussed-100K-payment-to-lock-recruit

KStyles
02-24-2018, 12:32 PM
https://i.imgur.com/2uZ2AU3.jpg

Hoopaholic
02-24-2018, 12:38 PM
Shaq O'Neill son just decommitted from arizona

Hoopaholic
02-24-2018, 12:38 PM
Lonzo Ball says
https://sports.yahoo.com/lonzo-ball-college-basketball-everybody-212801293.html

Who?

Hoopaholic
02-24-2018, 12:39 PM
I wonder if they let him play. It would be a big FU to the NCAA and FBI, but what are they going to do?

They just gave the big fu. He is playing per the school

Coach Crazy
02-24-2018, 12:44 PM
They just gave the big fu. He is playing per the school

Wow. They’re going to lose both Shaq’s kid and Brandon Williams (maybe more), Trier out, and now they’re going to give the finger to the NCAA publicly?!

Ban hammer coming. This program is gonna take some time to recover from this...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hoopaholic
02-24-2018, 12:46 PM
[QUOTE=Coach Crazy;1364823]Wow. They’re going to lose both Shaq’s kid and Brandon Williams (maybe more), Trier out, and now they’re going to give the finger to the NCAA publicly?!

Ban hammer coming. This program is gonna take some time to recover from this...

Kinda what I was thinking

And they turn over coaching to Romario whose team is on the list of cheaters. Wow

basketballzag
02-24-2018, 01:45 PM
[QUOTE=Coach Crazy;1364823]Wow. They’re going to lose both Shaq’s kid and Brandon Williams (maybe more), Trier out, and now they’re going to give the finger to the NCAA publicly?!

Ban hammer coming. This program is gonna take some time to recover from this...

Kinda what I was thinking

And they turn over coaching to Romario whose team is on the list of cheaters. Wow


It’s going to be okay Lorenzo Romar is the interim head coach at Arizona! Mr Basketball himself so Arizona fans can breath out now during this Triering time

RenoZag
02-24-2018, 03:08 PM
So Miller is so crooked if he swallowed a nail he would sh@t a corkscrew ?

Tom Crean is probably polishing his resume. . .

Coach Crazy
02-24-2018, 05:22 PM
[QUOTE=Hoopaholic;1364824]


It’s going to be okay Lorenzo Romar is the interim head coach at Arizona! Mr Basketball himself so Arizona fans can breath out now during this Triering time

I’m Triering to understand how having the coach connected to Markell Fulz is a good thing for Zona haha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Birddog
02-24-2018, 06:15 PM
[QUOTE=Hoopaholic;1364824]


It’s going to be okay Lorenzo Romar is the interim head coach at Arizona! Mr Basketball himself so Arizona fans can breath out now during this Triering time

The whiteboard couldn't be in the hands of a better X's and O's guy!

Hoopaholic
02-24-2018, 06:17 PM
[QUOTE=basketballzag;1364879]

The whiteboard couldn't be in the hands of a better X's and O's guy!

Nor mid game adjustments

Wonder what he will say when a player asks a defensive question for clarity

caduceus
02-24-2018, 06:19 PM
It’s going to be okay Lorenzo Romar is the interim head coach at Arizona! Mr Basketball himself so Arizona fans can breath out now during this Triering time

They're in Ayton of trouble!

SWZag
02-24-2018, 06:24 PM
Wow. They’re going to lose both Shaq’s kid and Brandon Williams (maybe more), Trier out, and now they’re going to give the finger to the NCAA publicly?!

Ban hammer coming. This program is gonna take some time to recover from this...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It may take longer for Arizona to recovery if Romar is coaching the team....

SWZag
02-24-2018, 06:24 PM
They're in Ayton of trouble!

:roll:

RenoZag
02-24-2018, 06:25 PM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22569193/attorney-family-arizona-wildcats-freshman-deandre-ayton-calls-allegations-false


A lawyer representing the family of Deandre Ayton called allegations involving the Arizona star freshman false and urged the FBI, the NCAA and the university to come out publicly and clear his name.

In a statement, attorney Lynden B. Rose said Ayton's family is "outraged and disgusted" by reports that "have falsely implied that her son or his family have any involvement in illegal or prohibited activities regarding his decision to matriculate at the University of Arizona."

Pass the popcorn. . .

basketballzag
02-24-2018, 07:01 PM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22569193/attorney-family-arizona-wildcats-freshman-deandre-ayton-calls-allegations-false



Pass the popcorn. . .

In other words if Ayton is suspended they will sue Arizona.

RenoZag
02-24-2018, 07:05 PM
In other words if Ayton is suspended they will sue Arizona.

For what ? Denying his right to earn a living ?

Mantua
02-24-2018, 07:50 PM
Hey, nice puns!

They are waiting to find out if there is any evidence that Ayton actually took the money.

Some of the comment I’ve heard today is stressing “innocent until proven guilty.” This whole thing could drag on and on. The NCAA is ####yfooting around about their responsibility to college sports.

Ha! Part of that expression was censored. Kittyfooting?

btzag
02-24-2018, 07:53 PM
The sad part in all this drama is the NCAA. They have a set of rules all universities are supposed to operate under whether you like the rules or not. The NCAA is in charge of enforcing the rules, but when there is clear examples of breaking the rules they throw their hands up and say it’s up to the schools to suspend the coaches or players! NO NCAA it’s up to you to do your job! The whole thing is very similar to the steroid era in MLB where you had cheating and a ruling body that just turned a blind eye in favor of $ until it got too out of control...

btzag
02-24-2018, 07:56 PM
Hey, nice puns!

They are waiting to find out if there is any evidence that Ayton actually took the money.

Hey McGwire, Sosa, Bonds and Lance Armstrong also never actually failed any steroid tests!!

ZagOD7540
02-24-2018, 08:17 PM
[QUOTE=Birddog;1365141]

Nor mid game adjustments

Wonder what he will say when a player asks a defensive question for clarity

That’s beautiful!

scrooner
02-24-2018, 08:51 PM
Deandre "Pay For Pl" Ayton

CDC84
02-24-2018, 08:53 PM
Here's a good article from TSN about how clueless Emmert and his crew continue to be. I also don't like this little committee he has formed. I think there are only 2 or 3 people on it who have ever been involved in basketball. The overwhelming composition of his group needs to consist of ethical people who have experience at all levels of the game. Otherwise it's like a university forming a search committee to hire for a men's basketball coaching vacancy that involves biology professors and student body presidents who don't have any idea on who runs the best 1-3-1 zone defense. It's senseless, it slows down progress, and involves too many people who don't know what the living hell they're talking about.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-basketball-scandal-yahoo-report-miller-ayton-payments-news-update-analysis/zrdxlnn7qjow15b4hga9fvz3s

The part of the article that I particularly agree with is this:


1. The worst part of this scandal remains the charges against a few assistant coaches that they were paid to steer athletes to particular agents or money managers. This is the part of the case that too often has been lost in the concern over college basketball’s future or the sex appeal of prospects allegedly being delivered to particular schools in exchange for large payments. The original complaint from the U.S. Attorney for New York’s Southern District claimed Auburn’s Chuck Person, who was being paid well into six figures as a Tigers assistant coach, accepted $91,500 in exchange for promising to direct prospects to work with a financial manager who was a cooperating witness with the Justice Department. Person was not alone in being charged with this conduct. There is no action that has been made public in any documents either released by the Justice Department or leaked to news outlets that is as disturbing as this. This one has actual human victims, young people who ought to be able to trust their coaches to have their best interests in mind.

This is an abomination.....far worse than the accusation that Ayton was offered $100K to play at Arizona. And yet no one hardly talks about it.

CarolinaZagFan
02-24-2018, 09:03 PM
Saw a great tweet today:

FBI To Do List

1. Bust college basketball
2. Find the 12 Russians that made Trump President


1,563. Look into tips about possible mass shootings at schools

Zags_Fanatic
02-24-2018, 09:07 PM
FWIW here's Coach Few's take on it:


"I just think everybody needs to pause for a second and take a deep breath before we just rush to judgment," Few said. "Let's see what the truth really is. There's people that I know, that have wives and kids. It's not just a coach at so-and-so university, there's a family behind that coach, too. I hope everybody will kind of pause before they rush to judgment."

CDC84
02-24-2018, 09:09 PM
Some other points from the TSN article: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-basketball-scandal-yahoo-report-miller-ayton-payments-news-update-analysis/zrdxlnn7qjow15b4hga9fvz3s


2. The worst part of Friday’s stories is that the eligibility of so many players was, according to the leaked documents, put at risk for loans from agents. Not grants or payments or free cars or whatever. For loans. According to the documents, ASM was loaning money to help secure future representation agreements with the players who still were competing as collegians or were on their way to doing so. The principal presumably then would be collected from the player’s earnings once he signed a professional contract and began gaining income with endorsements. It’s another way these players were victimized. The athlete takes most or all of the risk in the transaction.


4. The other disappointing element to roll through Friday’s news cycle was NCAA president Mark Emmert’s hard-line statement in response to the revelations:
“These allegations, if true, point to systemic failures that must be fixed and fixed now if we want college sports in America. Simply put, people who engage in this kind of behavior have no place college sports. They are an affront to all those who play by the rules.”

Here's what’s wrong with this: Most of those who “engage in this kind of behavior” aren’t IN college sports. The agents, runners, family members, handlers – they’re not working for colleges or playing for colleges. So when Emmert then goes on in his statement to cite the work of his Independent Commission on College Basketball as “more important now than ever,” he is demonstrating again that he and his group are unlikely to repair the issues in the sport because they likely won’t understand what the issues are. Emmert promises “transformational” changes. But it seems unlikely they will move in the direction of addressing the two most obvious issues with the college game. The first issue: Does amateurism work in the current environment, and can it be effectively enforced even if the answer is yes? The second: Is there any logical reason why athletes in basketball should not be allowed agency representation while they are collegians? Baseball players always have been permitted “advisers” when coping with the entry draft process. This was expanded in January to include hockey players. The prohibition against representation is antiquated and illogical.


3. It’s never been more obvious that these sorts of decisions are made above the players’ heads. There are multiple references in the Yahoo! article to meetings held with family members, or even “handlers”, of elite young basketball players. The NCAA almost always has chosen to operate under the assumption the athlete should be held responsible for the actions of those around him or her. What if those people don’t act responsibly, though? Why does anyone believe the parent or guardian or family friend would inherently act in the athlete’s best interest? It’s clear from past incidents that some of those close to some elite athletes have little regard for the value of NCAA eligibility. You get caught? Oh, well. Turn pro. You don’t get caught? You get some of the pro money ahead of time. Who cares if it must be paid back? That’s the player’s problem.

asoc
02-24-2018, 09:41 PM
Colin Cowherd this morning said that Silver, NBA commish, is going to start academies for gifted basketball players. They will be able to attend the academy high schools and graduate to the G league and/or NBA.

No more one and done.

Look to Soccer or the sports clubs in Europe.

If you look at the Seattle Sounders for instance. Their structure is as follows.
1st team in MLS - Seattle Sounders FC
Only 1st team signings can play for the 1st team.

2nd team playing in USL(2nd division league, fully professional) - Sounders 2 aka S2
S2 signings can play here, as well as 1st team signings and, so can academy players. If those academy players aren't paid, they retain their NCAA eligibility.

Seattle Sounders Academy - which has teams from U14 to U18. They run a U12 "sounders discovery" program which brings in the best talent from local club teams to train twice a week with Sounders staff. It serves as high level training but also as a way to scout and identify talent. And they still take the U12 team to tournaments.

Now the academy pushes players up in age group until they find their level. So just because a kid is 14 doesn't mean he can't play for the U18s if good enough. They just signed a 15 year old from Moses Lake to a S2 contract. He will likely still spend quite a bit of time with the academy though. And they have other S2 signings straight from the academy. They will then be trying to work their way up to a 1st team contract.

Academy kids can choose to go to college though as well, and many do. The Sounders still hold on to their "Home Grown" rights within MLS provided the player meets certain requirements for training hours with the team.

Its not just about developing a player, its about developing a well rounded person. So they represent the Sounders well whatever they end up doing in life.
They provide assistance with education. Whether its tutoring academy players or helping to pay for post high school education at local colleges or a trade school if that's what the player wants.

Each NBA team could easily do the same. The NBA has so much more money to spend than MLS. Yet MLS teams are individually spending millions each year on developing talent. Some have full on residential academies and are partnered with private schools for the education.

CDC84
02-24-2018, 09:46 PM
I am not convinced that most one and done players (about 7-8 per class going into the season) would attend such an academy. There is so much PR exposure to be gained through playing college basketball and thru playing in the NCAA tourney. The shoe companies would not have given Derrick Rose the money they did coming out of Memphis if he hadn't played college basketball or had played in some basketball academy that nobody watches.

Also, the problems we are talking about do not just effect one and done players. It's a myth. My bet is we are going to find out that they involve mainly players with an inflated sense of their draft stock based on info and lies attained from agents and runners. From the TSN article:


6. If you’re still blaming this on “one-and-done,” you’re lost. At least two of the athletes cited as accepting significant loans were multi-year college players who became second-round NBA draft picks. One connected to a small gift was a four-year college star who went undrafted at the end of his college career who since has played two seasons in the league.

Thus the only way to chase this circumstance entirely out of the game, assuming that’s a not a delusional goal, would be to field teams with no players of any professional promise whatsoever.

asoc
02-24-2018, 09:55 PM
I am not convinced that most one and done players (about 7-8 per class going into the season) would attend such an academy. There is so much PR exposure to be gained through playing college basketball and thru playing in the NCAA tourney. The shoe companies would not have given Derrick Rose the money they did coming out of Memphis if he hadn't played college basketball or had played in some basketball academy that nobody watches.

Also, the problems we are talking about do not just effect one and done players. It's a myth. My bet is we are going to find out that they involve mainly players with an inflated sense of their draft stock based on info and lies attained from agents and runners. From the TSN article:

If the NBA did something similar with "Home Grown" rights to players, they could still attend and play in college. The NBA team who spent all the money on them in the academy gets to hold on to their NBA rights. Or another NBA team could trade for those rights when the player is ready to sign a pro deal.

CDC84
02-24-2018, 10:10 PM
Got it. I could see why the NBA might be open to possibly doing something like that.

They want the kids in school.

TSN definitely showed that the NBA has gained so much in player development, scouting and popularity in the one and done era that it is senseless for the NBA to not want their guys playing in college at least a year. Check out the composition of this year's NBA all star teams compared to all star teams during the preps to pros period. It's staggering. As is the revenue increase across the NBA as a whole.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2018-one-and-done-rule-bagley-ayton-lebron-durant-analysis-news/lboc9ymq69dn1s3c7uff6ul6c

Regardless, I just hate the sport that I love being destroyed by all these controversies. As always, I will be rooting for Belmont and Murray State to make the finals in the Ohio Valley so I can see a bunch of mainly non-pro players playing their guts out to win the Ohio Valley and get their precious one bid when in fact both teams are usually better than some BCS at large teams who get in the dance.

KStyles
02-24-2018, 10:46 PM
Yes, and what "source" is gonna involve the fbi if it wasn't true? Zona's done, Miller will be gone by tomorrow at the latest and Ayton has played his last game. Recruits will all bail. They're toast. Read their board, their own fans are resolved:

http://beardownwildcats.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=59&start=4200


FWIW here's Coach Few's take on it:

"I just think everybody needs to pause for a second and take a deep breath before we just rush to judgment," Few said. "Let's see what the truth really is. There's people that I know, that have wives and kids. It's not just a coach at so-and-so university, there's a family behind that coach, too. I hope everybody will kind of pause before they rush to judgment."

.

CDC84
02-25-2018, 03:01 AM
The guy who I have been thinking of lately is the late, great, Jerry Tarkanian. The man who Bobby Knight said, in Tark's autobiography, was the greatest coach he ever coached against. Back in his LBSU days, Tark used to write editorials to the local newspaper about the cheating that was taking place not only throughout college basketball, but also college football, and how it was getting ignored and how non-power conference programs were getting bullied by the NCAA in order to make them look like they were "doing their job" (the running joke was that the NCAA got so damn mad at Kentucky for recruiting violations that they put Centenary on 5 years probation). Of course Tark was well aware of the Sam Gilbert situation at UCLA. Three times the NCAA reprimanded Tark for his letters and public accusations, and after the 4th, they started interrogating him and investigating him in a way that no sports coach ever has. And it never ended......from LBSU to UNLV to Fresno State. The NCAA ended up having to pay Tark 2.5 million bucks to keep him from taking them to the Supreme Court. They were dead scared he would put on display their selective enforcement procedures, and also the amount of cheating that went on during Tark's time and how the NCAA chose to ignore it.

You can say what you want about Tark, but despite enduring the highest levels of investigation (including an investigation by the state attorney of Nevada with sworn affidavits), the NCAA could never prove that any of his players were ever paid by him, his various coaching staffs or even his boosters. It's a myth that his teams were full of McDonald's AA's. Teams he faced in the final four had more McDonald's AA's than he got during his whole career. He sometimes took a risk on inner city kids, and some of them like Lloyd Daniels he admitted he should have never got near. But he never paid for anyone. No championships vacated because a player took money from an agent, etc. Even the famous hot tub photo with Richard Perry and a couple of the guys from title team proved to be nothing more than an AAU friendship that had endured. The NCAA wanted to bust him so badly, and they could never prove anything.

I now kind of wish that Tark would've passed on the money and would have taken the NCAA to the Supreme Court. Because honestly, I don't know if they really want to punish the schools and these coaches if the allegations prove true. It will cost them a whole lot of money, which seems to be the thing the NCAA is more interested in than anything else.

It disgusts me now more than ever that Tark was so vilified by the press and the NCAA when all this other crap was going on around him. I have no issues giving an opportunity to a dirt poor black kid from Detroit or Pittsburgh to play at a state university with very easy entrance requirements. Sometimes it didn't pan out, but more often than not it did. And when it did pan out, no players were more loyal to a coach, and were more willing to play hard for him. As Knight said, Tark's guys played harder than any college teams in basketball history because he was the only dude that publicly stood up for them. Also, as people know, Bobby Knight has very little respect for coaches who break the rules. He has publicly criticized Wooden several times for not dealing with Sam Gilbert. I find it interesting that the guy who was so hated by the NCAA is also a guy that Bobby Knight holds in the highest regard.

CDC84
02-25-2018, 04:00 AM
Amazing:

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/967444771580121089



Darren Rovell‏Verified account
@darrenrovell
JUST IN: Sean Miller’s contract, as written, somehow pays him more for getting fired with cause than without cause. So if Miller is fired with cause, Arizona will owe him approximately $5 million more ($10.3 million versus $5.15 million) than if they fired for no reason.

caduceus
02-25-2018, 05:43 AM
CDC, your posts are always so informative, and most definitely insightful. Fascinating info on Tark. I always felt he got jobbed. Thanks, as always.

Reborn
02-25-2018, 06:47 AM
Got it. I could see why the NBA might be open to possibly doing something like that.

They want the kids in school.

TSN definitely showed that the NBA has gained so much in player development, scouting and popularity in the one and done era that it is senseless for the NBA to not want their guys playing in college at least a year. Check out the composition of this year's NBA all star teams compared to all star teams during the preps to pros period. It's staggering. As is the revenue increase across the NBA as a whole.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2018-one-and-done-rule-bagley-ayton-lebron-durant-analysis-news/lboc9ymq69dn1s3c7uff6ul6c

Regardless, I just hate the sport that I love being destroyed by all these controversies. As always, I will be rooting for Belmont and Murray State to make the finals in the Ohio Valley so I can see a bunch of mainly non-pro players playing their guts out to win the Ohio Valley and get their precious one bid when in fact both teams are usually better than some BCS at large teams who get in the dance.

I agree, CDC: It upsets my stomach when I think of a conference getting 10 bids, or 8 or even 7 bids to the NCAA Tournament. And some of them have records below .500. I'm sure that for many basketball fans who do come from Mid-Major programs feel the same way. And to add fire to my fury is how Gonzaga, according to Joe Lunardi, is a five seed, and may get a 4 seed if we win the rest of our games. He finished by saying that a lot of Zag fans will be pretty upset when the brackets come out in a couple of weeks.

bballbeachbum
02-25-2018, 07:03 AM
Got it. I could see why the NBA might be open to possibly doing something like that.

They want the kids in school.

TSN definitely showed that the NBA has gained so much in player development, scouting and popularity in the one and done era that it is senseless for the NBA to not want their guys playing in college at least a year. Check out the composition of this year's NBA all star teams compared to all star teams during the preps to pros period. It's staggering. As is the revenue increase across the NBA as a whole.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2018-one-and-done-rule-bagley-ayton-lebron-durant-analysis-news/lboc9ymq69dn1s3c7uff6ul6c

Regardless, I just hate the sport that I love being destroyed by all these controversies. As always, I will be rooting for Belmont and Murray State to make the finals in the Ohio Valley so I can see a bunch of mainly non-pro players playing their guts out to win the Ohio Valley and get their precious one bid when in fact both teams are usually better than some BCS at large teams who get in the dance.

hey CDC84, with you big time on the Ohio Valley and college basketball and all of that, and what caduceus said. great stuff to read on a Sunday morning, thanks

RenoZag
02-25-2018, 07:06 AM
Bilas linked to this article (via his Twitter account) at the University of Buffalo School of Law's "Sports and Entertainment Law Forum,"


Emmert’s statement was predictable, and frankly, meaningless. He can speak all he wants about “punish[ing] unscrupulous parties seeking to exploit the system through criminal acts”, but the NCAA has only proven to be incapable of punishing anyone. It took five years to issue Louisville a penalty; it refused to hold UNC accountable for two decades of academic fraud; and, most importantly, it fostered a system where college coaches could secure recruits through cash payments. How can the NCAA hold itself out to be the governing body of intercollegiate athletics if it is not going to enforce its own rules? The FBI began its investigation and the US Attorney’s Office issued its indictments because the NCAA was not doing its job. But are these indictments for good reason? Is the NCAA even worth protecting if its administrators are not willing to protect it themselves?

https://ublawsportsforum.com/2018/02/24/hey-ncaa-this-is-your-fault/


In 1984, the Supreme Court held that the NCAA deserved enormous protection under antitrust law because it “plays a critical role in the maintenance of a revered tradition of amateurism in college sports.” NCAA v. Board of Regents of Univ. of Okla., 468 U.S. 85, 120 (1984). Subsequently, the NCAA created a multi-billion dollar amateur sports empire at the expense of a free labor force, while relishing its position as the last bastion of amateur athletics in the United States. But, because it no longer follows these principles, the NCAA no longer deserves the protection of antitrust law, and the services of the FBI or US Attorneys.

Zagceo
02-25-2018, 07:35 AM
Bilas linked to this article (via his Twitter account) at the University of Buffalo School of Law's "Sports and Entertainment Law Forum,"



https://ublawsportsforum.com/2018/02/24/hey-ncaa-this-is-your-fault/

find it interesting that Bilas was a big defender of UNC saying NCAA had no jurisdiction based on rules....and defended Sean Miller based on his personal knowledge when assistant was charged..and yet so critical of NCAA

primal23
02-25-2018, 07:57 AM
I saw a post, made sense to me. If you are going to pay the players, make them pay their tuition, room and board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CDC84
02-25-2018, 08:12 AM
Players don't play this hard for a guy who is a cheater. The greatest NCAA championship performance of all time was the result of a bunch of inner city black kids who were told before the title game vs. Duke that they were "bad boys" and that Duke represented everything that was right in college basketball. Funny enough, Duke is on the FBI list. One of the "uneducated" UNLV players said in the pre-game presser, "I am proud to exist in a country that doesn't just educate the elite":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSjZgNuM4cI

A follow-up on my previous post.......even the President of UNLV at that time, Robert Maxson, literally hired student-help workers whose sole job it was to catch UNLV basketball players committing a violation, and they still couldn't prove anything.

Why isn't this kind of scrutiny given to the teams on this FBI list? Probably because the schools lick the shoes of the NCAA.

willandi
02-25-2018, 08:20 AM
I saw a post, made sense to me. If you are going to pay the players, make them pay their tuition, room and board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A better choice is an alternative pathway to the pros. A system similar to baseball where you can be drafted out of high school, and would play in a modified G league, or you could go to college and be committed to 'X' number of years.

Players not offered out of HS could opt to try out for the G league and play at a lower wage, should they choose, or they could try to play overseas. Players that choose College would have to complete their commitment, and not be eligible to go to the G league or the NBA until that commitment had been completed.

Much of the problem is that the NBA wants to have a minor league to evaluate players but not have the bother or expense. They are the ones that established the one and done, not the NCAA, so they should bear some of the blame and could easily fund the alternative.

RenoZag
02-25-2018, 08:20 AM
find it interesting that Bilas was a big defender of UNC saying NCAA had no jurisdiction based on rules....and defended Sean Miller based on his personal knowledge when assistant was charged..and yet so critical of NCAA

Ceo, yesterday morning on GameDay, Bilas was excoriating Miller. . .so he has changed his tune re: Sean M. As far as his loathing of the NCAA, he has been very consistent on that.

NCAA spin re: "student athletes" is so much bullpucky. Always has been. Right now it all resembles a dumpster fire. Maybe this maelstrom of controversy will finally bring meaningful change to the college sports landscape.

Zagceo
02-25-2018, 08:27 AM
the dough rises to the top because the coaches are what make basketball teams great....so we've been told...

Private planes special training facilities built with donor/Alum money like NBA player Richard Jeffersons $3,500,000.00 to U of A throws fuel on the fire

18 year old kids are introduced to this lifestyle and told don't even think about taking any money when offered because its against the rules...rules are meant to protect the sanctity of our sport .....PLEASE EXCUSE MY RANT

hypocrisy runs deep and wide all the way through the veins of ESPN as they create more clicks and eyeball playing the salacious details of wiretaps that fans are transfixed on (in a rubber necking violent car accident way)

SCHOOL PAY-----TOTAL PAY----MAX BONUS



1
Louisville (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Rick Pitino (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$5,057,000
$7,769,200 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$750,000
--


2
Kentucky (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
SEC
John Calipari (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$7,140,000
$7,435,376
$50,000
--


3
Duke (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Mike Krzyzewski (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$5,550,475
$5,550,475 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
--
--


4
Kansas (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Bill Self (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$4,752,626
$4,932,626
$525,000
--


5
Michigan State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Tom Izzo (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$3,582,751
$4,251,751 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$350,000
--


6
West Virginia (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Bob Huggins (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$3,575,000
$3,590,000
$690,000
--


7
Michigan (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
John Beilein (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$3,370,000
$3,370,000
$250,000
--


8
Wichita State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Mo. Valley
Gregg Marshall (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$3,000,000
$3,035,500
$838,000
--


9
Baylor (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Scott Drew (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,813,811
$2,818,811
--
--


10
Virginia Tech (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Buzz Williams (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,600,000
$2,655,000
$290,000
--


11
Oregon (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Pac-12
Dana Altman (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,650,000
$2,651,000 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$575,000
--


12
UCLA (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Pac-12
Steve Alford (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,640,000
$2,644,000
$270,000
--


13
Arizona (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Pac-12
Sean Miller (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,200,000
$2,610,000
$1,260,000
--


14
Maryland (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Mark Turgeon (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,573,054
$2,577,054
$445,000
--


15
Villanova (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big East
Jay Wright (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,540,958
$2,540,958
--
--


16
Purdue (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Matt Painter (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,453,795
$2,453,795 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$901,874
--


17
Arkansas (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
SEC
Mike Anderson (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,450,800
$2,450,800
$800,000
--


18
South Carolina (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
SEC
Frank Martin (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,450,000
$2,450,000
$735,000
--


19
Florida State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Leonard Hamilton (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,250,000
$2,250,000
$2,675,000
--


20
Virginia (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Tony Bennett (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,205,000
$2,206,500
$1,450,000
--


21
Cincinnati (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
AAC
Mick Cronin (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,201,305
$2,201,305
$640,000
--


22
Kansas State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Bruce Weber (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,150,000
$2,150,276 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$831,000
--


23
Notre Dame (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Mike Brey (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$970,177
$2,120,177 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
--
--


24
North Carolina (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Roy Williams (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,088,577
$2,088,577 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,000,000
--


25
Providence (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big East
Ed Cooley (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,036,454
$2,036,454 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
--
--


26
Southern California (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Pac-12
Andy Enfield (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,909,956
$1,909,956
--
--


27
Florida (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
SEC
Michael White (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,884,699
$1,884,699 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$300,000
--


28
Wisconsin (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Greg Gard (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,750,000
$1,753,445
$400,000
--


29
Minnesota (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Richard Pitino (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,678,812
$1,678,812
$600,000
--


30
Gonzaga (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
West Coast
Mark Few (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,629,083
$1,629,083
--
--


31
Seton Hall (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big East
Kevin Willard (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,560,379
$1,560,379
--
--


32
Iowa State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Steve Prohm (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,550,000
$1,550,000
$675,000
--


33
Xavier (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big East
Chris Mack (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,420,479
$1,420,479
--
--


34
Virginia Commonwealth (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
A-10
Will Wade (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,400,000
$1,400,000 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$602,000
--


35
Northwestern (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Chris Collins (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,340,664
$1,340,664
--
--














http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/

willandi
02-25-2018, 08:30 AM
the dough rises to the top because the coaches are what make basketball teams great....so we've been told...

Private planes special training facilities built with donor/Alum money like NBA player Richard Jeffersons $3,500,000.00 to U of A throws fuel on the fire

18 year old kids are introduced to this lifestyle and told don't even think about taking any money when offered because its against the rules...rules are meant to protect the sanctity of our sport .....PLEASE EXCUSE MY RANT

hypocrisy runs deep and wide all the way through the veins of ESPN as they create more clicks and eyeball playing the salacious details of wiretaps that fans are transfixed on (in a rubber necking violent car accident way)




1
Louisville (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Rick Pitino (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$5,057,000
$7,769,200 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$750,000
--


2
Kentucky (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
SEC
John Calipari (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$7,140,000
$7,435,376
$50,000
--


3
Duke (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Mike Krzyzewski (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$5,550,475
$5,550,475 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
--
--


4
Kansas (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Bill Self (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$4,752,626
$4,932,626
$525,000
--


5
Michigan State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Tom Izzo (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$3,582,751
$4,251,751 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$350,000
--


6
West Virginia (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Bob Huggins (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$3,575,000
$3,590,000
$690,000
--


7
Michigan (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
John Beilein (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$3,370,000
$3,370,000
$250,000
--


8
Wichita State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Mo. Valley
Gregg Marshall (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$3,000,000
$3,035,500
$838,000
--


9
Baylor (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Scott Drew (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,813,811
$2,818,811
--
--


10
Virginia Tech (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Buzz Williams (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,600,000
$2,655,000
$290,000
--


11
Oregon (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Pac-12
Dana Altman (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,650,000
$2,651,000 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$575,000
--


12
UCLA (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Pac-12
Steve Alford (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,640,000
$2,644,000
$270,000
--


13
Arizona (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Pac-12
Sean Miller (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,200,000
$2,610,000
$1,260,000
--


14
Maryland (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Mark Turgeon (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,573,054
$2,577,054
$445,000
--


15
Villanova (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big East
Jay Wright (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,540,958
$2,540,958
--
--


16
Purdue (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Matt Painter (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,453,795
$2,453,795 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$901,874
--


17
Arkansas (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
SEC
Mike Anderson (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,450,800
$2,450,800
$800,000
--


18
South Carolina (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
SEC
Frank Martin (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,450,000
$2,450,000
$735,000
--


19
Florida State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Leonard Hamilton (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,250,000
$2,250,000
$2,675,000
--


20
Virginia (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Tony Bennett (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,205,000
$2,206,500
$1,450,000
--


21
Cincinnati (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
AAC
Mick Cronin (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,201,305
$2,201,305
$640,000
--


22
Kansas State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Bruce Weber (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,150,000
$2,150,276 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$831,000
--


23
Notre Dame (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Mike Brey (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$970,177
$2,120,177 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
--
--


24
North Carolina (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
ACC
Roy Williams (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,088,577
$2,088,577 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,000,000
--


25
Providence (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big East
Ed Cooley (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$2,036,454
$2,036,454 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
--
--


26
Southern California (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Pac-12
Andy Enfield (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,909,956
$1,909,956
--
--


27
Florida (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
SEC
Michael White (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,884,699
$1,884,699 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$300,000
--


28
Wisconsin (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Greg Gard (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,750,000
$1,753,445
$400,000
--


29
Minnesota (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Richard Pitino (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,678,812
$1,678,812
$600,000
--


30
Gonzaga (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
West Coast
Mark Few (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,629,083
$1,629,083
--
--


31
Seton Hall (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big East
Kevin Willard (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,560,379
$1,560,379
--
--


32
Iowa State (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big 12
Steve Prohm (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,550,000
$1,550,000
$675,000
--


33
Xavier (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big East
Chris Mack (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,420,479
$1,420,479
--
--


34
Virginia Commonwealth (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
A-10
Will Wade (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,400,000
$1,400,000 (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$602,000
--


35
Northwestern (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
Big Ten
Chris Collins (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/#)
$1,340,664
$1,340,664
--
--













What are the monetary columns? Coaches pay?

Zagceo
02-25-2018, 08:30 AM
Ceo, yesterday morning on GameDay, Bilas was excoriating Miller. . .so he has changed his tune re: Sean M. As far as his loathing of the NCAA, he has been very consistent on that.

NCAA spin re: "student athletes" is so much bullpucky. Always has been. Right now it all resembles a dumpster fire. Maybe this maelstrom of controversy will finally bring meaningful change to the college sports landscape.

can't take a fellas hope away...might be all he's got...lets hope you're correct

Zagceo
02-25-2018, 08:34 AM
What are the monetary columns? Coaches pay?

coaches breakdown in salaries

school pay
total pay
max bonus

willandi
02-25-2018, 08:36 AM
school pay
total pay
max bonus

Thanks.

amaronizag
02-25-2018, 08:38 AM
I love college basketball. The way it is. Period. OK, give the athletes a stipend of $10K per year on top of scholarships to reward them for their hard work and help pay annual expenses that exceed scholarships, and go to the movies, etc. BUT PLEASE do not start parallel semi-pro leagues that dilute the talent level in college basketball. College isn't for everyone..........well, it should be. We need more kids taking school seriously and staying in school, not less. Free college is a reward, a huge reward, and college shouldn't be perceived as penalizing a kid who just wants to play basketball. We need better citizens and school makes better citizens, and better role models. Playing basketball in the NBA should reward those that play by the rules, study hard, and of course, practice and play harder and better than their rivals. I favor a minimum of two years in college before eligible for the NBA, but I would prefer more years of player/citizen development before eligibility for the huge NBA $$$$. College degrees, not bling, is what we want our role models to show the world. This country has bigger problems that a little graft in college sports and a better educated citizenry will help solve those problems.

willandi
02-25-2018, 08:45 AM
I love college basketball. The way it is. Period. OK, give the athletes a stipend of $10K per year on top of scholarships to reward them for their hard work and help pay annual expenses that exceed scholarships, and go to the movies, etc. BUT PLEASE do not start parallel semi-pro leagues that dilute the talent level in college basketball. College isn't for everyone..........well, it should be. We need more kids taking school seriously and staying in school, not less. Free college is a reward, a huge reward, and college shouldn't be perceived as penalizing a kid who just wants to play basketball. We need better citizens and school makes better citizens, and better role models. Playing basketball in the NBA should reward those that play by the rules, study hard, and of course, practice and play harder and better than their rivals. I favor a minimum of two years in college before eligible for the NBA, but I would prefer more years of player/citizen development before eligibility for the huge NBA $$$$. College degrees, not bling, is what we want our role models to show the world. This country has bigger problems that a little graft in college sports and a better educated citizenry will help solve those problems.

I too love college basketball. I don't, however, believe that college makes people better citizens. In fact, it often seems that college educated can be among the worst.

How many jobs in this country actually need advanced education to be able to perform. Doctors, Architects, Engineers, but not real estate and many jobs that require a degree, but don't care what the degree is in.

Most workers in this country do not have college degrees, and you use them every day. To say that they aren't good citizens and outstanding people is just wrong.

Let players that want to go to college play there. The ones that are forced into school because of the NBA age limit should not have to go.

btzag
02-25-2018, 09:33 AM
Bilas linked to this article (via his Twitter account) at the University of Buffalo School of Law's "Sports and Entertainment Law Forum,"



https://ublawsportsforum.com/2018/02/24/hey-ncaa-this-is-your-fault/

This is exactly why there is so much corruption in cbb; zero enforcement. There is cheating that goes on in every area of sports, business, politics, etc whether private or public, amateur or professional, for profit or non-profit. The only way to create an even playing field is to rigorously enforce rules and the NCAA has been an abject failure. You think MLB’s crackdown on steroids has eliminated cheating in that sport? Heck no, people still try to dope, organizations try to steal signs and break the intl player rules. BUT the sport is still a ton cleaner than it used to be and better off for it.

basketballzag
02-25-2018, 09:37 AM
I too love college basketball. I don't, however, believe that college makes people better citizens. In fact, it often seems that college educated can be among the worst.

How many jobs in this country actually need advanced education to be able to perform. Doctors, Architects, Engineers, but not real estate and many jobs that require a degree, but don't care what the degree is in.

Most workers in this country do not have college degrees, and you use them every day. To say that they aren't good citizens and outstanding people is just wrong.

Let players that want to go to college play there. The ones that are forced into school because of the NBA age limit should not have to go.

If you think paying the players is going to magically fix the current system you are crazy. Is Tillie worth the same as Beech? The outside & internal forces will continue to prey on the highly regarded kids. Buying into this theory is distracting from the real problem in college athletics which is how do you get rid or eliminate the greed? You think Lavar Ball cares about a school paying 10k a month when he can go behind the scenes and score 250k a month? It’s a feel good measure with no systemic impact other than it forces dozens of schools to drop out of Div 1A basketball because it’s too expensive to pay all of their athletes.

amaronizag
02-25-2018, 09:39 AM
I never said or meant to imply any person that doesn't attend college is not a good citizen. My point is that a well informed population functions better than an uninformed one. Period. There aren't many PhD's out there robbing 7/11's. Sad that we have to import people with degrees because we don't generate enough skilled workers in the US. People who play college sports and have degrees are better role models than bling, $$$, etc.

willandi
02-25-2018, 09:46 AM
I never said or meant to imply any person that doesn't attend college is not a good citizen. My point is that a well informed population functions better than an uninformed one. Period. There aren't many PhD's out there robbing 7/11's. Sad that we have to import people with degrees because we don't generate enough skilled workers in the US. People who play college sports and have degrees are better role models than bling, $$$, etc.

You are relegating workers in trades, the arts and service industry into second class status. I disagree with your premise that higher education makes anyone more informed.

How many high school drop outs have raided a retirement fund in a hostile takover? How many have found loopholes on Wall Street? The rich rob just as much, or more, than the poor. They just do it differently and may be the reason that the poor are put in the position to need to rob. Speculation on my part, true, but still a possibility.

amaronizag
02-25-2018, 10:01 AM
Obviously there are criminals at all education and income levels, but the crime rate and level of education are inversely proportional. As the level of education increases, the number of criminals decreases.
Back to basketball. Schools are for education and sports are an important part of that educational experience for a lot of students. There are thousands of college athletes in dozens of sports and compared to society as a whole, a very very small percentage of them are corrupt or engage in criminal acts.

Zagsker
02-25-2018, 10:15 AM
I too love college basketball. I don't, however, believe that college makes people better citizens. In fact, it often seems that college educated can be among the worst.

How many jobs in this country actually need advanced education to be able to perform. Doctors, Architects, Engineers, but not real estate and many jobs that require a degree, but don't care what the degree is in.

Most workers in this country do not have college degrees, and you use them every day. To say that they aren't good citizens and outstanding people is just wrong.

Let players that want to go to college play there. The ones that are forced into school because of the NBA age limit should not have to go.

Completely agree...i will add that with boom of online universities, etc...the internet is the New educational system. Anything you want to learn about is readily available to anyone who wants to learn.

asoc
02-25-2018, 12:25 PM
I never said or meant to imply any person that doesn't attend college is not a good citizen. My point is that a well informed population functions better than an uninformed one. Period. There aren't many PhD's out there robbing 7/11's. Sad that we have to import people with degrees because we don't generate enough skilled workers in the US. People who play college sports and have degrees are better role models than bling, $$$, etc.

I bet there are a lot of addicts out there committing all sorts of crimes.

Lets look at one of the biggest causes of the nations opiate crisis. Doctors and the pharmaceutical industry.

People caring more about kickbacks and money than the downstream effects of opiate addiction. Its why we have cities suing these companies because they were fully aware of what they were doing and the outcomes.

Doctors get kicks backs from the drugs they prescribe. So much so that rather than trying to figure out whats best for the patient they push a certain drug or treatment because they will get that kickback.
http://www.newsweek.com/big-pharma-opioid-crisis-bribery-arrest-694154
https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/is-your-doctor-getting-drug-kickbacks/

Look to the countless cities, counties and states dealing with mass opiate addiction across the country. Look to the manufacturers, marketers, distributors and doctors who were/are pushing opiates down peoples throats when they knew better but just wanted that extra money.

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Media/News-Releases/May-2017/Attorney-General-DeWine-Files-Lawsuit-Against-Opio

The lawsuit alleges, among several counts, that the drug companies violated the Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act and created a public nuisance by disseminating false and misleading statements about the risks and benefits of opioids. This false marketing included medical journal advertising, sales representative statements, and the use of front groups to deliver information which downplayed the risks and inflated the benefits of certain formulations of opioids. This behavior proliferated the prescription of opioids and fueled the opioid epidemic Ohio is currently facing.

So please tell me more about how these educated folk are so much better than the average Joe who puts his head down and goes to work every day building our society and keeping it running.

caduceus
02-25-2018, 04:53 PM
CDC, your inbox is full. Sorry all for the off-topic.

CDC84
02-26-2018, 01:45 PM
I got rid of some of the emails. Trying to get my inbox expanded.

I posted this on the main board, but I will also post it here. TSN did a fantastic article on what FANS want out of college basketball. That's what really counts. We're the ones buying the tickets, the team jackets, the TV dish packages, etc.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/college-basketball-scandal-schools-update-news-investigation-arizona-kentucky-deandre-ayton-sean-miller/jc4h6vaknnxl1wqn0lr5kul7x

Hoopaholic
02-26-2018, 05:59 PM
So miles bridges pays back the 40 dollars does that give credence to the ledger?

RenoZag
02-26-2018, 06:08 PM
So miles bridges pays back the 40 dollars does that give credence to the ledger?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22589989/michigan-state-miles-bridges-donates-40-charity-resolve-ncaa-violation

All of this reminds me of the scene in Blazing Saddles where the territorial governor, played by Mel Brooks, says "Gentlemen ! We've got to protect our phoney baloney jobs !!"

CDC84
02-26-2018, 06:22 PM
Saw Blazzing Saddles again the other night. What a classic. And I am not a huge movie person.

TexasZagFan
02-27-2018, 04:13 AM
Saw Blazzing Saddles again the other night. What a classic. And I am not a huge movie person.

Richard Pryor was one of the writers. Oh, to have been a fly in the room at the same time with Mel Brooks and Pryor.

willandi
02-27-2018, 05:56 AM
So miles bridges pays back the 40 dollars does that give credence to the ledger?

I have read that this is the way that small violations have been dealt with for many years. Of course, it is easier to do now that there is a stipend. Still, many believe that Bridges could have signed a multi million dollar deal, had he come out after last season. Since he elected to go back to school this year, it seems unlikely that he would jeopardize that contract by having a $40 meal with an agent.

For very small amounts, I can live with this solution. It wasn't a loan, a ticket to fly, a car or anything really meaningful. It was a lunch that a family member had with an agent, and he didn't know about it.

CDC84
02-27-2018, 11:48 AM
There are coaches who will tell you that 99% of all schools in D-1 take advantage of "extra benefits" in the sense of a coach buying a milkshake for a kid who just lost his mom, or the AD giving change to a kid to call his brother because his cell phone battery died. This stuff happens all the time, and it's only when the NCAA doesn't like you that they choose to nail you for these small items. The NCAA rule book is way too big and complex, and the "extra benefit" area of the book can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. Like others have expressed, I could really care less about super minor incidents. A NBA prospect isn't going to be persuaded to stay another year at Bowling Green because the coach bought him a milkshake. It's the cars, the big money....that sort of thing that is real troubling (needless to say).

Hoopaholic
02-28-2018, 06:27 PM
Arizona board regents set to meet Thursday over Miller status

Only logical reason to meet is to remove him

Birddog
03-01-2018, 09:45 AM
I don't think this has been posted, it's instructive IMO.
http://ux.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2018/02/27/sean-miller-fired-arizona-wildcats-coach-recruiting-scandal-fbi-ncaa-wiretap-z/379456002/


"Obviously the attorneys are the ones slugging it out right now. The UA is trying to decide what outcome it wants the most. I think one thing that has gone unsaid is ‘Is there anything else coming in regards to Sean Miller?’ I think from the beginning that has colored this whole thing with the attorneys and especially with the UofA is 'Is this just the only thing that’s going to be mentioned with Sean Miller with illicit recruiting? Maybe he wants to get out of here because he knows it’s inevitable four, seven months from now there’s going to be more mentions of him in this."

And this
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2018/02/28/arizona-basketball-sean-miller-wildcats-job-status/381312002/


Jon Wilner writes: "In a world where the ESPN story is lacking vital context or completely wrong, there is only one outcome: Mutual separation. That would undoubtedly be a difficult path for Miller if he’s convinced of his own innocence and believes his reputation has been unfairly tarnished. But lacking the ability to blast away all the murky issues — those known and those looming — how can he function effectively as the head coach? Miller agrees to move on; he gets paid handsomely for doing so; he goes after ESPN; and eventually, he works again. It is the best thing for the program, and Miller has always stated he wants what’s best for the program. For Arizona, the separation would mitigate the seemingly inevitable NCAA sanctions (failure to monitor, etc) and provide an essential fresh start. The climb out of the muck with Miller in charge would simply be too difficult and would take too long. It’s time to move on."