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Reborn
02-03-2018, 10:40 PM
Gonzaga 68
BYU 60

A very good game, exciting as heck. I don't have a lot of complaints accept for another poor shooting night for our guards. Just different players this time. What ever happened to Guard U? This is probably the worst 3 point shooting Gonzaga team ever. You may wonder why Gonzaga is scoring so low lately. Lousy shooting by our guards. When you have 2 of the 3 starting guards score a combined 10 points you're going to have a low score. I think if you know me you know that I love good 3 point shooting, so I'm not really enjoying a lot of the shooting by the guards. But we sure do have a stable of good, talented guards, so tonight Kispert came off the bench to knock down a couple of 3's. If you want my opinion, he's earned his starting role back. Why play Norvell in the first half, He can't even hit the broad side of a barn.

On the other hand, we played great defense again tonight, and help BYU to like 15% from the 3 point line. Hachimura, JW3, Perkins and Kispert had very good games. Hachimura led the team in scoring with 15. 14 for Perkins and 13 for Williams. This could have been the first time we never had 4 guys in double figures. The team is playing good D and that has really helped a lot.

However. We finally beat BYU at home. Great!!!

Go Zags!!!

Skimhvn
02-03-2018, 10:47 PM
I don't think what Rui did was double dribble. That was just one catch and one dribble. If that was violation, it should be travelling, not double dribble.

U Zig, I Zag
02-03-2018, 10:49 PM
Odd game. JW went against the recent grain and worked the block for periods of time and actually got to the rim. His Achilles might be not reading the double, but BYU didn’t hit him with that much.

Bad shooting on both sides from deep. Not sure what’s going on with the offense but there is sequences where Zags run a motion series and then - not sure if I am not seeing it right, but they don’t do anything. Nobody is moving and more importantly the BALL barely moves.

I’ll take the win. One at a time. But if I could pin it on one thing:

Lack of a big on both ends that can change all the action on D in the lane and on offense is a skilled big that can act as a pivot pass through the lane. We just don’t have it or can’t do it.

RenoZag
02-04-2018, 06:52 AM
John Blanchette: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/feb/03/john-blanchette-never-mind-the-white-shirts-gonzag/


But the real revelation out of Gonzaga’s 68-60 subduing of the Cougars on Saturday night was that you could tell the Zags treasured it as an achievement more than mere relief.

Yes, no doubt it felt mighty good to beat the Y after losing three years running on the home floor, and don’t think it didn’t register with Bulldogs both young and, well, running out of time.

“I was here for all three, so it’s big for me,” senior Silas Melson said. “But this whole room knew they’d come to Spokane three years in a row and beat us and that we couldn’t let it happen again.”

“It’s not just for the guys in here, but the guys the last three years who weren’t able to win,” teammate Jeremy Jones added.

At the SR link above you will also find audio clips of interviews with: Coaches Lloyd & Few; players JWIII, Melson, and Norvell.

RenoZag
02-04-2018, 06:55 AM
Jim Meehan: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/feb/03/analysis-gonzaga-shines-in-crunch-time-again-holds/#/0


Gonzaga (21-4, 11-1 WCC) has won three straight tense, grind-it-out affairs, twice scoring in the 60s. The Zags have squeezed out just enough offense in the closing minutes – Zach Norvell Jr.’s enormous 3-pointer broke a tie with the Cougars with 2:19 left – but they’ve been even better at the defensive end. They closed out San Francisco, San Diego and BYU with 6-0 spurts to the finish line.

“I hope we can continue it,” coach Mark Few said after Gonzaga’s fifth consecutive win. “It is a good time to do it (at the defensive end). It’s very timely. I feel like we’re competing.”

RenoZag
02-04-2018, 07:00 AM
S-R's Whitney Ogden on Silas Melson: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/feb/03/gonzagas-silas-melson-has-been-tearing-it-up-thoug/


“Defensively, he’s the guy we really trust. He’s got a lot of experience,” assistant coach Tommy Lloyd said.

Melson doesn’t take that trust from his coaches and his teammates lightly. His shots might not have been falling in at the right times on Saturday, but his constant pressure on tough opposing shooters is what matters most to Melson when he conducts his self evaluation after a game.

“Everybody here and there … might have a bad shooting game, but defense has to be consistent,” Melson said. “Defense has to travel wherever you play.”

RenoZag
02-04-2018, 07:11 AM
Salt Lake Tribune gamer: https://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-cougars/2018/02/04/no-16-gonzaga-holds-off-byus-second-half-rally/


“We were really aggressive and got into tough physical spots where their physicality overmatched us,” BYU coach Dave Rose said of the final two minutes. “I thought we could have got the benefit of a whistle or two there that could have helped us through it.”

The Cougars dropped to 7-5 in West Coast Conference play, 18-7 overall, but were a totally different team than the one that lost 76-69 to lowly Loyola Marymount on Thursday. They threw a big scare into the Zags (11-1, 21-4), again.

Deseret News gamer: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695638/Gonzaga-ends-home-losing-streak-to-BYU-with-68-60-victory.html


Despite shooting an awful 3 of 20 from 3-point range, the Cougars hung in there against the Zags, just two days after suffering a humiliating loss at Loyola Marymount.

“I was pretty confident that we’d come out and really compete. You never know how well you’re going to play,” said BYU coach Dave Rose. “You get guys that might be a little frustrated. But I thought we played well, we played together, we competed hard. If we would have made a few more threes, it probably would have been a different story.”


“They’re a very deep team. They have their rotations down pretty well where they sub and keep their legs fresh,“ Childs said. “They’re a top 25 team for a reason. They’re really talented one-through-five. They bring great guys off the bench. Hats off to them.”

AP Wire Story ( From GoZags.com) http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/020318aaa.html


The Bulldogs won despite shooting only 37.5 percent in the second half, when BYU came back from a halftime deficit to tie the game.

''We can have some lulls,'' Few said, after his team finished nearly 20 points below its season average.

''Guys were firing shots from all over the place,'' Few said. ''We just didn't make them.''

BYU got within 62-60 in the final minutes. But the Zags forced two turnovers and scored the final six points to seal the win.

''Any time you can beat them you beat a real good team,'' Few said.

Hoopaholic
02-04-2018, 07:24 AM
I don't think what Rui did was double dribble. That was just one catch and one dribble. If that was violation, it should be travelling, not double dribble.

It was double dribble
He made a dribble with one hand brought the ball up to chest height and placed both hands on the ball taking a stride then put the ball back down to dribble

Skimhvn
02-04-2018, 07:42 AM
It was double dribble
He made a dribble with one hand brought the ball up to chest height and placed both hands on the ball taking a stride then put the ball back down to dribble

But when we missed to catch the ball, it is usually considered "just missing to catch", isn't it? I'm sure Rui seemed to dribble, but I think it's unfair that when we seemed to dribble it's considered dribbling and when we seemed to miss to catch it's not considered dribbling.
That depends on "how we seem", then I don't think it's smart rule.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-04-2018, 07:58 AM
Announcers mentioned Tillie battling the flu; great 1st half then I assume being sick got the best of him. Anyone hear confirmation of that?

It’d be great to see Zags have 20+ assists and 80+ points in a game again soon, but as long as their D keeps improving and they keep winning I’ll take it!

JPtheBeasta
02-04-2018, 08:01 AM
Coach Rose (see above link): “I thought we could have got the benefit of a whistle or two there that could have helped us through it.”

I thought the same thing on our end. They let them play tonight. I'm sure he was referencing the Rui travel, and he probably thought Hawes got fouled (I thought it was clean). I wanted several fouls that they let go that would have pushed this game out of reach much earlier and would have made the travel and foul no-calls irrelevant.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-04-2018, 08:26 AM
Overall my thoughts are: way to gut it out and get the W Zags. Huge 3 by Norvell.

Very surprised Zags never once went with the three big lineup that allows Rui to play the 3 and creates a huge mismatch for Zags. I thought that lineup would become a regular occurrence for at least 10 minutes per game.

bballbeachbum
02-04-2018, 08:32 AM
thanks for all the links!
Zags seemed intent on forcing the bounce, getting burned and looking silly at times because of it but the tactics executed the strategy I thought, 3-20 from deep
Zags won a toughness contest vs. BYU that they lost in the Kennel last year; Rose's teams always think they're the tough guys out there
hope to see Zags take real heart in this and keep building, we'll see.


“This was for Domas and Wiltj and Nigel and Shem,” Josh Perkins said. “Those guys all texted me before the game and told me to get this one done. This is one we really wanted.”

Reborn
02-04-2018, 09:02 AM
What has impressed me about the last three victories is that the Zags have won close games, and "sealed the deal" at the end of 3 straight games. This was something that they were failing to do in their earlier losses. This season the Zags have only had one loss by moe than 3 points (and I count the OT loss to Florida as a tie). Zags are now pulling out victories in the close games.

Kispert has found his shot again and is playing great. If he had played like this against St Mary's I believe we would have beaten them. We'll find out next week if he does make a difference. I'm glad to see that Kispert has accepted his new role this year. I know that it has been tough. He shows me a lot of character. He's a great rebounder too. It's be cool to see him and Norvell both start next year.

It's also great seeing Williams play so well now. He seems to be getting a double-double almost every game now. And Rui played really tough defense last night on Childs. I think we're going to see more of Rui guarding Landale next week. For the first time this year, the Zags did a great job stopping 3 point shooters. That's significant I think.

Go Zags!!!

Reborn
02-04-2018, 09:21 AM
I got to give Josh Perkins a shout out. He really came out to play tonight. He was really intense all night long, and I loved seeing that attitude. I thought he played his best game last night overall. He really ran the offensive end of the floor great. I loved that turn-around jump shot he hit in the key in the last stretch of the game. HIs best inside shot for sure this year. I hope he plays this way the rest of his career at GU. I saw a pretty confident player last night. Way to go Josh. And way to make me eat my words.

Go Zags!!!

Birddog
02-04-2018, 09:38 AM
Overall my thoughts are: way to gut it out and get the W Zags. Huge 3 by Norvell.

Very surprised Zags never once went with the three big lineup that allows Rui to play the 3 and creates a huge mismatch for Zags. I thought that lineup would become a regular occurrence for at least 10 minutes per game.
Kispert was seen standing in front of the bench signalling "this big"! Others more skilled than I can probably link to that image.

willandi
02-04-2018, 09:59 AM
But when we missed to catch the ball, it is usually considered "just missing to catch", isn't it? I'm sure Rui seemed to dribble, but I think it's not unfair that when we seemed to dribble it's considered dribbling and when we seemed to miss to catch it's not considered dribbling.
That depends on "how we seem", then I don't think it's smart rule.

I see that same thing all the time. A player will bounce the ball to gain control, catch it and then dribble the ball.
I have thought it should be called as a double dribble, but what is really important is that it is called the same way, every time, especially in the same game.

JPtheBeasta
02-04-2018, 09:59 AM
Kispert was seen standing in front of the bench signalling "this big"! Others more skilled than I can probably link to that image.

Not from the game, but a reasonable facsimile from popular culture:

https://media.giphy.com/media/RG0Ky874oqonu/giphy.gif

ZagNative
02-04-2018, 10:02 AM
Great thread! Thanks to all who contributed.

RenoZag
02-04-2018, 10:03 AM
Well-played, JP

JPtheBeasta
02-04-2018, 10:05 AM
I see that same thing all the time. A player will bounce the ball to gain control, catch it and then dribble the ball.
I have thought it should be called as a double dribble, but what is really important is that it is called the same way, every time, especially in the same game.

Domas got called for a travel doing doing something similar against U of A a few years ago when he was on offense and it might have cost us the game (on my birthday, which is probably why I remember it so distinctly), but I see players doing it all of the time without a call. It seemed that Rui had pretty good control and I, personally, would have called it a travel but you see a no-call all of the time when deflections happen and the defender hasn't quite controlled the ball yet. It must a be a big judgement call as to whether the first bounce was a true dribble or the player didn't yet have control.

ZagNative
02-04-2018, 10:08 AM
Kispert was seen standing in front of the bench signalling "this big"! Others more skilled than I can probably link to that image.I don't know if this is the image you're referring to, but I like it:

https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2018/02/03/SRX_GU_VS_BYU_2_t1140.jpg?abf36d44fcda22a1f7041162 086f31df6a374511

Gonzaga guard Corey Kispert roars with delight after scoring against BYU, Saturday, Feb. 3, 2018, in the McCarthey Athletic Center. (Dan Pelle / The Spokesman-Review)

JPtheBeasta
02-04-2018, 10:09 AM
I have to wonder if the recent history with BYU in the Kennel was a big monkey on Melson's back and that he might have been playing a little tight as a result. He missed some shots that he usually makes. When BYU closed the gap in the second half I couldn't help thinking, "Here we go again..." and I wonder if the players felt it too in that moment.

MontanaCoyote
02-04-2018, 10:10 AM
Gonzaga 68
BYU 60

A very good game, exciting as heck. I don't have a lot of complaints accept for another poor shooting night for our guards. Just different players this time. What ever happened to Guard U? This is probably the worst 3 point shooting Gonzaga team ever. You may wonder why Gonzaga is scoring so low lately. Lousy shooting by our guards. When you have 2 of the 3 starting guards score a combined 10 points you're going to have a low score. I think if you know me you know that I love good 3 point shooting, so I'm not really enjoying a lot of the shooting by the guards. But we sure do have a stable of good, talented guards, so tonight Kispert came off the bench to knock down a couple of 3's. If you want my opinion, he's earned his starting role back. Why play Norvell in the first half, He can't even hit the broad side of a barn.

On the other hand, we played great defense again tonight, and help BYU to like 15% from the 3 point line. Hachimura, JW3, Perkins and Kispert had very good games. Hachimura led the team in scoring with 15. 14 for Perkins and 13 for Williams. This could have been the first time we never had 4 guys in double figures. The team is playing good D and that has really helped a lot.

However. We finally beat BYU at home. Great!!!

Go Zags!!!

I don't know, Reborn, but I think a closer look at the stats shows that it was pretty much only Bryant's 1-11 shooting that
made for our "good" defensive game. Haws, Worthington and Childs combined 22-36, 61%. And Haws, a crafty, sneaky player but no All American chewed us up at times, especially (nothing new) driving inside and scoring time and again.

On top of that, I saw a lot of GU's Leaping 3 D last night. Lucky most of those shot just wouldn't drop. If they had, BYU wins.

I don't think Bye U has much after those three, unlike any number of teams we could face down the line.

Just continue to worry about both penetration and 3 pt D. Sometimes it just seems that this year if the right one doesn't get us, the left one will or maybe even both.

Hoping to see all out effort against SMC on both these counts. It's getting late.

GrizZAG
02-04-2018, 10:15 AM
What I appreciated about that game was how Rui was matched with a tough physical matchup that gave him a taste of the physicality he will face at times. He got beat both offensively and defensively and it was clear he didn't like it. He ramped it up and adjusted to it better late in the game. All part of his growing pains for the better.

To add: Melson had a very physical opponent also and showed his toughness. He handled it with amazing poise.

ZagNative
02-04-2018, 10:17 AM
Another nice pic from the game captures Rui encouraging the Kennel club to bring it on!

https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2018/02/03/SRX_09585_t1140.jpg?abf36d44fcda22a1f7041162086f31 df6a374511

Gonzaga forward Rui Hachimura (21) tries to get the student section riled up after a Zags score late in the second half of a NCAA college basketball game, Sat., Feb. 3, 2018, in the McCarthey Athletic Center. (Colin Mulvany / The Spokesman-Review

Birddog
02-04-2018, 10:55 AM
I don't know if this is the image you're referring to, but I like it:

https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2018/02/03/SRX_GU_VS_BYU_2_t1140.jpg?abf36d44fcda22a1f7041162 086f31df6a374511

Not quite ZN, he was making the "Big Eggs" sign ala David Stockton a couple years ago. I thought it was pretty funny and quite fitting given the situation.

GonzaGAW
02-04-2018, 01:06 PM
- I'm okay with Kispert's muscle pose, he does that often after a hard strong move to the glass. And he does not do it in the face of an opponent (which otherwise would be taunting).

- but my next comment might not be agreed with my many, but I thought his hand gesture of "big ones" to Norvell after he hit the crucial 3 point basket with 2 minutes left in the game, was just crude and sophomoric. I found it embarrassing. I suspect his Mother was not saying lookie there that's my boy. I suspect Coach Few thinks such hand gestures seen across the county nationally are not in keeping with the high quality young men his program is known and respected for.
- I know, come on GAW give the kid a break, he was just excited, the bench is always making hand gestures in support of good plays. I love kispert, he is already one of my favorites on the team. I think he will be one of the all time greats when his basketball's full career is written.
- I just hope someone sits him down, and suggest he find other ways on being supportive. He is a good kid right now, I'm sure of it, I'm just hoping for some growth in maturity in this area.

Reborn
02-04-2018, 04:04 PM
Not quite ZN, he was making the "Big Eggs" sign ala David Stockton a couple years ago. I thought it was pretty funny and quite fitting given the situation.

That is intense. Which is exactly what he is. I was talking about ZN's pic. Thanks ZagNative.

Reborn
02-04-2018, 04:14 PM
I don't know, Reborn, but I think a closer look at the stats shows that it was pretty much only Bryant's 1-11 shooting that
made for our "good" defensive game. Haws, Worthington and Childs combined 22-36, 61%. And Haws, a crafty, sneaky player but no All American chewed us up at times, especially (nothing new) driving inside and scoring time and again.

On top of that, I saw a lot of GU's Leaping 3 D last night. Lucky most of those shot just wouldn't drop. If they had, BYU wins.

I don't think Bye U has much after those three, unlike any number of teams we could face down the line.

Just continue to worry about both penetration and 3 pt D. Sometimes it just seems that this year if the right one doesn't get us, the left one will or maybe even both.

Hoping to see all out effort against SMC on both these counts. It's getting late.

Bryant is second highest scorer in conference play at 17.9 ppg. Childs must be close behind because he's averaging 17.5. We stopped both of them. Childs started both halves scoring points and ended up with 13, but did not score the last 15 minutes of the game. Also, the bench scored a big 0. I think that is rare. The only player to really hurt us was Haws who's a pretty good player.

RenoZag
02-04-2018, 06:30 PM
The Slipper Still Fits coverage of the BYU tilt: https://www.slipperstillfits.com/2018/2/4/16971346/10-observations-gonzaga-byu-basketball-wcc-game-recap


I liked that the coaching staff trusted Jeremy Jones in this game, and he repaid that faith with an impactful 8 minutes of play on the defensive end. I admire his ability to keep himself mentally ready despite receiving inconsistent minutes throughout the season.

Despite having a significant physical advantage, Norvell struggled with the craftiness of TJ Haws and he allowed Haws to score on him several times down the stretch. On more than a handful of occasions, Norvell simply lost track of Haws. Norvell’s exhibited a penchant for hitting big shots late in games, and he’s fearless in the big moments, but he still needs to play defense at a sufficient level to keep himself on the floor at the end of the game.

MontanaCoyote
02-04-2018, 08:41 PM
Bryant is second highest scorer in conference play at 17.9 ppg. Childs must be close behind because he's averaging 17.5. We stopped both of them. Childs started both halves scoring points and ended up with 13, but did not score the last 15 minutes of the game. Also, the bench scored a big 0. I think that is rare. The only player to really hurt us was Haws who's a pretty good player.

OK! Acid test is Saturday. I hope you are right!

Skimhvn
02-05-2018, 07:10 AM
I see that same thing all the time. A player will bounce the ball to gain control, catch it and then dribble the ball.
I have thought it should be called as a double dribble, but what is really important is that it is called the same way, every time, especially in the same game.

Yes...That's all should be double dribble.

Hoopaholic
02-05-2018, 09:06 AM
I see that same thing all the time. A player will bounce the ball to gain control, catch it and then dribble the ball.
I have thought it should be called as a double dribble, but what is really important is that it is called the same way, every time, especially in the same game.

that is different

you can fumble a ball and use the push of the hand to create control. then dribble and that is not double dribble (one of the great myths ...fumbling of ball , dropping it and using hand to gain possession does not constitute a dribble)

When you engage in the act of dribbling (control and possession is in place prior to dribbling) then stop dribbling by holding the ball in both hands and then dribble again that is double dribble.

TexasZagFan
02-05-2018, 09:11 AM
that is different

you can fumble a ball and use the push of the hand to create control. then dribble and that is not double dribble (one of the great myths ...fumbling of ball , dropping it and using hand to gain possession does not constitute a dribble)

When you engage in the act of dribbling (control and possession is in place prior to dribbling) then stop dribbling by holding the ball in both hands and then dribble again that is double dribble.

I always thought double dribble was an easier call than the NFL catch rule.

Bogozags
02-05-2018, 11:24 AM
that is different

you can fumble a ball and use the push of the hand to create control. then dribble and that is not double dribble (one of the great myths ...fumbling of ball , dropping it and using hand to gain possession does not constitute a dribble)

When you engage in the act of dribbling (control and possession is in place prior to dribbling) then stop dribbling by holding the ball in both hands and then dribble again that is double dribble.

Great definition and explanation...so many don't understand and unfortunately, at times Refs seem to forget the rule...lol

Hoopaholic
02-05-2018, 12:15 PM
I always thought double dribble was an easier call than the NFL catch rule.

dont watch nfl so not sure but double dribble is fairly straight foward if you are confidant in understanding possession.............IMO