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Stache
02-01-2018, 09:50 PM
I will leave the reasons for debate or reasons for the decline to other; however, the kennel club is on life support. Gone are the days of bouncing and making noise when the opponent has the ball. No original chants originate from the students. Unless there is music playing, the vast majority are present to socialize and be on their phones. The top half of the student section sat for most of tonightís competitive game against a good USD team. The student area to the West didnít contain any students at all. Mark Few turned around and was waving his arms asking the adult crowd behind the bench to get the noise and energy up in the last 4 minutes because other than the first 2-3 rows of students, the kennel club was apathetic.

Iíve been a season ticket holder for more than 20 years and the lack of excitement and engagement is very different and disappointing. The change is real and persistent.

Reborn
02-01-2018, 09:54 PM
I was wondering about this because on TV the rooting section does seem extremely quiet. I remember thinking during the St Mary's game that it was the quietest Kennel Club I've ever heard. Shame on you GU Students. Watch other schools was great programs as THEY CHEER with all they have. No wonder Gonzaga is a better team when they play on the road. Shame on you GU students. You no longer seem to be a part of what has made this team so special.

TexasZagFan
02-01-2018, 10:26 PM
I was wondering about this because on TV the rooting section does seem extremely quiet. I remember thinking during the St Mary's game that it was the quietest Kennel Club I've ever heard. Shame on you GU Students. Watch other schools was great programs as THEY CHEER with all they have. No wonder Gonzaga is a better team when they play on the road. Shame on you GU students. You no longer seem to be a part of what has made this team so special.

The KC is a microcosm of Zag fandom this year. Last year's run has made too many faithful bored and uninspired.

cggonzaga
02-01-2018, 10:59 PM
Yeah it was pretty depressing today. Hopefully they bring it Saturday!

Zags11
02-01-2018, 11:06 PM
I will leave the reasons for debate or reasons for the decline to other; however, the kennel club is on life support. Gone are the days of bouncing and making noise when the opponent has the ball. No original chants originate from the students. Unless there is music playing, the vast majority are present to socialize and be on their phones. The top half of the student section sat for most of tonight’s competitive game against a good USD team. The student area to the West didn’t contain any students at all. Mark Few turned around and was waving his arms asking the adult crowd behind the bench to get the noise and energy up in the last 4 minutes because other than the first 2-3 rows of students, the kennel club was apathetic.

I’ve been a season ticket holder for more than 20 years and the lack of excitement and engagement is very different and disappointing. The change is real and persistent.

Said this all year in game threads. Its bad. I went to cpl games and half were standing but mute.

TexasZagFan
02-01-2018, 11:23 PM
Said this all year in game threads. Its bad. I went to cpl games and half were standing but mute.

I'll duck and cover with this comment: KC needs to limit females, most of whom are there as a social gathering, a place to be seen. I don't recall much more than a handful of women who were seen in the Snake Pit. Maybe GoZags can shed some light with his recollection.

Zags11
02-01-2018, 11:43 PM
I'll duck and cover with this comment: KC needs to limit females, most of whom are there as a social gathering, a place to be seen. I don't recall much more than a handful of women who were seen in the Snake Pit. Maybe GoZags can shed some light with his recollection.

My wife is loud as can be and so is my aunt and mom. I personally think ota because more people want to go to the "cool" event.

And honestly a lot of the males were doing nothing as well. I've been to 4-5 games this yr. Its been as bad as possible.

Alum08
02-02-2018, 01:41 AM
This is really disappointing. I thought the games seemed dead this year on TV but figured that maybe they had repositioned the mics or something. I agree that the KC needs to get some new cheers, the classics just sound depressing coming from this group. No stomping, no jumping, it's just boring.

That's not to say that the rest of the MAC crowd, which has done the impossible and somehow managed to become even more lifeless, is pulling their weight. The ambience is like attending a pac-12 bottom feeder game.

Do they need more beer? Better leadership? What does it take?

CarolinaZagFan
02-02-2018, 03:10 AM
Better tread lightly! If they catch wind of this abuse they’ll probably cower away in some safe space Saturday instead of showing up at all.

Birddog
02-02-2018, 03:30 AM
During last night's game i was wondering if it was just me or if the KC had disappeared. There was a TV shot early in the game of a 20 something guy (not KC) sitting courtside messing with his phone and seemingly totally disengaged. What a waste of a good seat! The KC should be energetic enough to get the old farts into it too.

Zagger
02-02-2018, 03:37 AM
Maybe the student section should have a no-phone policy during the game .....

In turn they could have some GU stus (dozen or so) dedicated to social media photo/video taking and commenting on the games.

jake
02-02-2018, 04:13 AM
I get the impression they're more going through the motions than emotionally invested in the game. More like, "this is when we jump around" than "we're excited; let's jump around". Apathetic is a good description.

jbslicer
02-02-2018, 04:19 AM
Q: How do you take GU fans "out of the game!"
A: You start the game.

Outraged
02-02-2018, 05:03 AM
that would explain why we play better on the road

TexasZagFan
02-02-2018, 05:07 AM
There should be a before and after picture: before the TV cameras turn on, when they’re on TV, and after.

vandalzag
02-02-2018, 05:08 AM
The KC is a microcosm of Zag fandom this year. Last year's run has made too many faithful bored and uninspired.

I agree with this , much more than the duck and cover post below :).

Reborn
02-02-2018, 05:36 AM
that would explain why we play better on the road

exactly

Bouldin4Prez
02-02-2018, 05:37 AM
I'll duck and cover with this comment: KC needs to limit females, most of whom are there as a social gathering, a place to be seen. I don't recall much more than a handful of women who were seen in the Snake Pit. Maybe GoZags can shed some light with his recollection.

This might be the worst post in the history of this board. If I was a mod, I would ban you.

DukeSilver
02-02-2018, 06:10 AM
I'll duck and cover with this comment: KC needs to limit females, most of whom are there as a social gathering, a place to be seen. I don't recall much more than a handful of women who were seen in the Snake Pit. Maybe GoZags can shed some light with his recollection.

Absolutely shameful.

Club Prez
02-02-2018, 06:44 AM
There seems to be apathy both on campus and in the community. I got an email that I could still buy tickets at Noon yesterday. The second time this year that I got a second email that tickets were still available.

VaBeachZAG
02-02-2018, 06:46 AM
Absolutely shameful.

I'm sure there are countless explanations for this problem (e.g., cell phones, apathy after reaching the BB pinnacle last year, etc, etc.). The solution rests with leadership; leadership from the kennel club hierarchy, and the cheerleaders. They need to step up!!

Coach Crazy
02-02-2018, 06:51 AM
This might be the worst post in the history of this board. If I was a mod, I would ban you.

Stop, bro. Relax yourself. Rebut his position, instead of getting triggered.

Zaglaw
02-02-2018, 06:55 AM
My wife is loud as can be and so is my aunt and mom. I personally think ota because more people want to go to the "cool" event.

And honestly a lot of the males were doing nothing as well. I've been to 4-5 games this yr. Its been as bad as possible.

Thank you Zags11. The original post was ridiculous. On the booster side, its more likely to be the women who stand up and cheer and yell. Plus, watching the KC, I don't see a lot of difference in behavior between the men and women. Honestly, smart phones have changed human interaction in every aspect of our lives.

tinfoilzag
02-02-2018, 07:09 AM
This might be the worst post in the history of this board.

There have been worse posts.

The student body and the people that go to the games are representative of our current fans. If the fan base is changing, trying to artificially manage it will not produce that 'old feeling'. The only cure for the apathy might be a rough patch to let everyone understand how blessed we have been.

I bet you would see fewer, but more enthusiastic, fans at an NIT game.

Bouldin4Prez
02-02-2018, 07:18 AM
Stop, bro. Relax yourself. Rebut his position, instead of getting triggered.

Limiting the amount of women allowed to attend an event isn't a position. It's a ridiculous statement which requires no debate. Do I really need to rebut with, hey I think that women and men attending Gonzaga should receive an equal chance at obtaining tickets to a basketball game? Really? This is a debate that you feel is required?

Coach Crazy
02-02-2018, 07:37 AM
Limiting the amount of women allowed to attend an event isn't a position. It's a ridiculous statement which requires no debate. Do I really need to rebut with, hey I think that women and men attending Gonzaga should receive an equal chance at obtaining tickets to a basketball game? Really? This is a debate that you feel is required?

He may be stating a driver behind the lack of intensity may be correlative to testosterone, and not that it's because women are inferior? I don't know. Debate ideas, even if you don't find them particularly palatable. If it's that bad, it shouldn't take much to put it down in its grave. You do realize that the sport we talk about on here all the time limits its participants on the court to only men. Why would you watch an iteration of a sport that doesn't give an equal chance to women?

bballbeachbum
02-02-2018, 07:44 AM
Limiting the amount of women allowed to attend an event isn't a position. It's a ridiculous statement which requires no debate. Do I really need to rebut with, hey I think that women and men attending Gonzaga should receive an equal chance at obtaining tickets to a basketball game? Really? This is a debate that you feel is required?

evidently it is
wow

Bouldin4Prez
02-02-2018, 07:52 AM
He may be stating a driver behind the lack of intensity may be correlative to testosterone, and not that it's because women are inferior? I don't know. Debate ideas, even if you don't find them particularly palatable. If it's that bad, it shouldn't take much to put it down in its grave. You do realize that the sport we talk about on here all the time limits its participants on the court to only men. Why would you watch an iteration of a sport that doesn't give an equal chance to women?

You're joking with me, right? You have to be. The female students pay the exact same tuition and fees as their male counterparts. Therefore, they should have the same access to the benefits that come with being a student which include having the option to attend a basketball game.

TexasZagFan
02-02-2018, 07:56 AM
Limiting the amount of women allowed to attend an event isn't a position. It's a ridiculous statement which requires no debate. Do I really need to rebut with, hey I think that women and men attending Gonzaga should receive an equal chance at obtaining tickets to a basketball game? Really? This is a debate that you feel is required?

Crap, did I really need to put a sarcasm tag on that? Lol

U Zig, I Zag
02-02-2018, 07:57 AM
They seem a bit apathetic. Not sure how it's organized, if some students are in charge and lead the chants or whatever, but it's clear they need to pressure the students to put their phones away for periods of time. Not sure how you accomplish that. Additionally, their is little to no standing by the regular season ticket holders. I know people will chime in saying they stand and cheer, some do. But I have been to games and I watch the rest on TV. People need to stand and make some noise.

Bouldin4Prez
02-02-2018, 08:03 AM
Crap, did I really need to put a sarcasm tag on that? Lol

My apologies if it wasn't a serious post. Tough to get the sarcasm portion of the internet sometimes.

TexasZagFan
02-02-2018, 08:05 AM
IMO Zag fans at road games are more vocal. At least for me and my family, it’s a special event, usually an annual affair. Wins are much harder to come by, too.

adoptedzag
02-02-2018, 08:17 AM
Crap, did I really need to put a sarcasm tag on that? Lol

Dude, text does not convey tone, bruh! use the /s liberally when dealing with "touchy" subjects :D

Edit: Just wanted to say: Maybe it's my dark sense of humor, but I chuckled. :)

TexasZagFan
02-02-2018, 08:21 AM
Dude, text does not convey tone, bruh! use the /s liberally when dealing with "touchy" subjects :D

Edit: Just wanted to say: Maybe it's my dark sense of humor, but I chuckled. :)

Thanks, good advice.

EEzag
02-02-2018, 08:25 AM
Thanks, good advice.


Maybe make the KC private again. Good times.

Coach Crazy
02-02-2018, 08:36 AM
You're joking with me, right? You have to be. The female students pay the exact same tuition and fees as their male counterparts. Therefore, they should have the same access to the benefits that come with being a student which include having the option to attend a basketball game.

Then why not have them play on the same teams? Surely segregating them into gender-based systems is, by your reasoning, an act of sexism and discrimination? You're just virtue-signaling. I don't buy your reasoning for being appalled and averse to have a conversation. You act like he said a terrible thing (and I am assuming there was a potential biological argument behind his statement), but then you don't bat an eye at the fact that women and men don't play together in athletics for *biological reasons*.

Do I think the answer limiting women in the cheering section? No. But I am at least willing to understand the person's position and refute it. Be logical, not reactionary.

TheGonzagaFactor
02-02-2018, 08:39 AM
Stop, bro. Relax yourself. Rebut his position, instead of getting triggered.

Why should anyone have to rebut that statement. It was stupid.

Bouldin4Prez
02-02-2018, 08:56 AM
Then why not have them play on the same teams? Surely segregating them into gender-based systems is, by your reasoning, an act of sexism and discrimination? You're just virtue-signaling. I don't buy your reasoning for being appalled and averse to have a conversation. You act like he said a terrible thing (and I am assuming there was a potential biological argument behind his statement), but then you don't bat an eye at the fact that women and men don't play together in athletics for *biological reasons*.

Do I think the answer limiting women in the cheering section? No. But I am at least willing to understand the person's position and refute it. Be logical, not reactionary.

You win.

cbbfanatic
02-02-2018, 09:01 AM
I get the impression they're more going through the motions than emotionally invested in the game. More like, "this is when we jump around" than "we're excited; let's jump around". Apathetic is a good description.

think this is it...

and i also think its an inevitable outcome given GU's unique place in the cbb world. competitive team that plays almost entirely dogs at home. it's harder to get excited for that. when your typical home game experience is a 20pt drubbing over a team that's as far from the radar as it gets, how do you show up and act like a maniac?

get exciting games at home. have more challenging games in general - even if you lose some of them. there has to be something on the line. gonzaga's existence as a top 15-20 team over the past decade or so has been WAY too easy, especially at home

the UNC home and home is a nice start

HenneZag
02-02-2018, 09:06 AM
I will be honest, In all my years of going to games I have never seen the KC so uninspired and flat. I took a friend to a game a few weeks ago, he has never been to a game and has heard how great the environment was, needles to say he way very disappointed as was I. The first couple rows jump and clap and the rest just literally sit there. It is sad for the folks who want to come watch a game but obviously can't due to the limit of tickets available.

Back in the day we still had a chip on our shoulder, both the students and the players. Now its just an expectation we will show up and just win, and I believe some that don't really understand the history of this program, its just a social affair. I may as well sit at home crack a beer and eat nachos on the comfort of my own couch.

AirborneJag
02-02-2018, 09:10 AM
Actually I was there last night, and while there may have been a reduced level of energy, it was by no means as bad as portrayed by a number of posters. Spokane is becoming an apathetic market - the fans come late and leave early -a lot. The seats next to mine are promotional seats -they were not occupied last night, and when they are, the “fans” are frequently more pre-occupied with their phones than anything else. And what’s up with leaving 3 minutes before halftime - you really need to suck down that many beers/glasses of wine at the Herak club?

I think part of the lack of energy last night was because of confusion over what is/is not “allowable”. As some may know, there have been a series of articles about BYU and the Kennel Club vis-a-vis the missionary outfits, signs etc. The level of sensitivity has been elevated and one can agree or disagree over whether we have entered the snowflake zone. So Saturday night might be a telling event. Bottom line Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. This will all get worked out.

ZagOD7540
02-02-2018, 09:18 AM
Actually I was there last night, and while there may have been a reduced level of energy, it was by no means as bad as portrayed by a number of posters. Spokane is becoming an apathetic market - the fans come late and leave early -a lot. The seats next to mine are promotional seats -they were not occupied last night, and when they are, the “fans” are frequently more pre-occupied with their phones than anything else. And what’s up with leaving 3 minutes before halftime - you really need to suck down that many beers/glasses of wine at the Herak club?

I think part of the lack of energy last night was because of confusion over what is/is not “allowable”. As some may know, there have been a series of articles about BYU and the Kennel Club vis-a-vis the missionary outfits, signs etc. The level of sensitivity has been elevated and one can agree or disagree over whether we have entered the snowflake zone. So Saturday night might be a telling event. Bottom line Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. This will all get worked out.

Nice post

Drives me crazy that people leave their seats at the under 4 minute tv timeout to go get their dixie cup of beer. Have you seen the line to get in there? People would rather stand in line, than watch the tail end of the 1st half. We have someone in our section that bails early to be the first in line every single game. It’s become a joke around us to see exactly when they will leave.

U Zig, I Zag
02-02-2018, 09:24 AM
Actually I was there last night, and while there may have been a reduced level of energy, it was by no means as bad as portrayed by a number of posters. Spokane is becoming an apathetic market - the fans come late and leave early -a lot. The seats next to mine are promotional seats -they were not occupied last night, and when they are, the “fans” are frequently more pre-occupied with their phones than anything else. And what’s up with leaving 3 minutes before halftime - you really need to suck down that many beers/glasses of wine at the Herak club?

I think part of the lack of energy last night was because of confusion over what is/is not “allowable”. As some may know, there have been a series of articles about BYU and the Kennel Club vis-a-vis the missionary outfits, signs etc. The level of sensitivity has been elevated and one can agree or disagree over whether we have entered the snowflake zone. So Saturday night might be a telling event. Bottom line Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. This will all get worked out.

Thanks for the insight.

JPtheBeasta
02-02-2018, 10:08 AM
There’s at least one screaming girl that comes through over the mic on the broadcasts that my wife wishes would graduate already.

GUDan07
02-02-2018, 10:11 AM
Maybe make the KC private again. Good times.

This is the answer. The drop in intensity began after the sterilization at the hands of the administration. If you want a rabid student section, more restraint from the school is not going to help.

zag944
02-02-2018, 10:24 AM
I went to GU when the tent business was just starting up (we had Gameday vs Stanford...otherwise it was just a short line where the Bulldog statue is now, maybe 200 people deep for most games). Tent City seems like a more difficult environment for the people that will have the best seats to get properly drunk in. I know some are crafty, but convenient ways to get booze would help.

Does anyone manage to actually pre party (bar or house) and get a good seat anymore?

Saxon_zag
02-02-2018, 10:30 AM
He may be stating a driver behind the lack of intensity may be correlative to testosterone, and not that it's because women are inferior? I don't know. Debate ideas, even if you don't find them particularly palatable. If it's that bad, it shouldn't take much to put it down in its grave. You do realize that the sport we talk about on here all the time limits its participants on the court to only men. Why would you watch an iteration of a sport that doesn't give an equal chance to women?

You're being intentionally dense to provide cover for a sexist point of view. Stop.

Im surprised the post can even stay up as heavily moderated as this place is (tongue in cheek or not). I'm coming off my 2nd week long ban this season for "language" the language being that I used a more scientific 7 letter term for the slang "BJ" to describe how some fans were treating SMC only after Jock Landaele and a 'bunch guys' beat us on our home court. Bad loss.

The KC sucks now because of the whole student body not just one gender... It's been trending this way for a while though, we lose to BYU like every year at home no matter how good our team is... It's also signs of a spoiled fan base that's been here too often before. Microcosm of the board too imo, this season is boring and bleak on here relative to last it's hard to get pumped for a game against San Diego even if they aren't as terrible as the bottom of the conference

ZAG 4 LIFE
02-02-2018, 10:56 AM
I live in Northern California and come to Spokane very season to see old friends I used
To work with at GU, and to see a pair of games in The Kennel... and this year
It is this weekend.
I mentioned to my buddy last night that perhaps the students, not unlike many fans,
Have become spoiled, and take for granted the incredible product the Zags continue to put out
On the floor every night ... and they have become complacent. I’d be Open to reducing
The 1400 Student game tix down to around 1000, and selling those 400 seats to fans
Who want to be there. Let’s face it, GU could sell those 400 new season tickets in a few hours...
Maybe making it a tougher ticket might inspire those students
To fight for them, and show up ready The to support their fellow classmates on game day?

TexasZagFan
02-02-2018, 10:57 AM
I went to GU when the tent business was just starting up (we had Gameday vs Stanford...otherwise it was just a short line where the Bulldog statue is now, maybe 200 people deep for most games). Tent City seems like a more difficult environment for the people that will have the best seats to get properly drunk in. I know some are crafty, but convenient ways to get booze would help.

Does anyone manage to actually pre party (bar or house) and get a good seat anymore?

In ancient days, 3rd floor DeSmet was usually a good place for pre-game libations. From the time I walked on campus in '72, I always had a six pack of beer in my frig in the dorm. From what I understand, alcohol is not allowed on campus...true?

It was a different time back then. The day I turned 18, my stepfather told me I could grab a beer whenever I wanted. Turning 18 was serious business back then...not so today.

TexasZagFan
02-02-2018, 10:58 AM
I live in Northern California and come to Spokane very season to see old friends I used
To work with at GU, and to see a pair of games in The Kennel... and this year
It is this weekend.
I mentioned to my buddy last night that perhaps the students, not unlike many fans,
Have become spoiled, and the incredible product the Zags continue to put out
On the floor every night ... and they have become complacent. I’d be Open to reducing
The 1400 Student game tix down to around 1000, and selling those 400 seats to fans
Who want to be there. Let’s face it, GU could sell those 400 new season tickets in a few hours...
Maybe making it a tougher ticket might inspire those students
To fight for them, and show up ready The to support their fellow classmates on game day?

Check your PM (in a few minutes).

CDC84
02-02-2018, 11:05 AM
I still feel the school made a massive error by having the TV cameras facing the backs of the students. A lot of what pumps up student sections throughout the country to go crazy is that their faces are visibly on television. If they just socialize and look at smartphones, they can be easily noticed and criticized. Now I would think Gonzaga basketball itself would be enough to cause a student section frenzy, but the TV camera situation is not helping things. The cameras are like a gasoline that grows the fire.

drbkp
02-02-2018, 11:06 AM
Until this year, the presentation of colors/National Anthem occurred at the 10 minute mark before the game. That left the last few minutes pre-game to Zombie Nation and whatever pump up the crowd music, leading to player intros and tip off. This year, though, we have the frenzy terminated as the anthem has been moved to just before player intros & tip. Not commenting on the anthem, just pointing out the chilling effect its new position in the pre game lineup seems to have on the crowd energy.
Also, as a member of the snake pit, I believe we would have welcomed any and all women within our ranks...realizing them perfectly capable of cheering at a basketball game, even without a johnson.
Finally, as has been perpetually discussed, if the students don't consistently fill their allotted seats perhaps a couple of the sections should no longer be student seats.

drvenkman05
02-02-2018, 11:07 AM
Au contrarie, my friend. The first recorded tent event was for the first game in the Kennel with a national broadcast on ESPN2. We camped for several days for entrance to the game. There was no power, so no TVs, video games, etc., and no smartphones. On the day of the game, I painted my entire body red and stood in the cold for several hours, fueled only by the sweet nectar brought to me from the KC houses. It was pure grit that got us through, and the KC needs to get back to that!


I went to GU when the tent business was just starting up (we had Gameday vs Stanford...otherwise it was just a short line where the Bulldog statue is now, maybe 200 people deep for most games). Tent City seems like a more difficult environment for the people that will have the best seats to get properly drunk in. I know some are crafty, but convenient ways to get booze would help.

Does anyone manage to actually pre party (bar or house) and get a good seat anymore?

RenoZag
02-02-2018, 11:07 AM
Crap, did I really need to put a sarcasm tag on that? Lol

You wrote: "I may have to duck and cover with this comment. . ." so I doubt it was intended to be sarcastic at all.

You could have put [j/k] on it in the original post and might have gotten away with it. But you didn't and others in this thread were correct to call you out for it.

RenoZag
02-02-2018, 11:09 AM
I still feel the school made a massive error by having the TV cameras facing the backs of the students. A lot of what pumps up student sections throughout the country to go crazy is that their faces are visibly on television. If they just sit and look at smartphones, they can be easily criticized. Now I would think Gonzaga basketball itself would be enough to cause a frenzy, but the TV camera situation is not helping things.

Showing the students throughout the telecast certainly hasn't harmed the Cameron Arena's reputation nor dimmed the enthusiasm of the Cameron Crazies.

thespywhozaggedme
02-02-2018, 11:12 AM
It's not just at Gonzaga, it's everywhere. I watch the Duke Virginia game and even the Cameron crazies are not what they used to be. And it is due to one and only one thing: self-absorbed, entitled millenials that are constantly on Snapchat, Instagram, and their phones. Technology is turning our younger generation into mindless narcissistic zombies; if it's not about them and always about them then it's not really that important. And I'm not joking.

RenoZag
02-02-2018, 11:17 AM
It's not just at Gonzaga, it's everywhere. I watch the Duke Virginia game and even the Cameron crazies are not what they used to be. And it is due to one and only one thing: self-absorbed, entitled millenials that are constantly on Snapchat, Instagram, and their phones. Technology is turning our younger generation into mindless narcissistic zombies; if it's not about them and always about them then it's not really that important. And I'm not joking.

There's some wisdom in those words, spy. I have a 25 y.o. who seems to be breaking out of some of those habits but hasn't done so entirely.

thespywhozaggedme
02-02-2018, 11:23 AM
Showing the students throughout the telecast certainly hasn't harmed the Cameron Arena's reputation nor dimmed the enthusiasm of the Cameron Crazies.

Ha, I posted my post without reading yours. Obviously I disagree vehemently. Living in the heart of ACC country I watch almost all of their games, hoping that they lose of course, but nonetheless, the Cameron crazies are not nearly what they used to be 10 years ago.

thespywhozaggedme
02-02-2018, 11:25 AM
There's some wisdom in those words, spy. I have a 25 y.o. who seems to be breaking out of some of those habits but hasn't done so entirely.

I hate that I sound like an angry old curmudgeon , but it is true. Even my young daughters ages 10 and six are constantly on their devices iuness my wife and I are vigilant about that and limit their access to one hour a day. It's terrible.

CDC84
02-02-2018, 11:30 AM
Showing the students throughout the telecast certainly hasn't harmed the Cameron Arena's reputation nor dimmed the enthusiasm of the Cameron Crazies.

I will never forget a Duke game at Cameron when Dicky V was still their main color analyst, and one of their fans was body surfing throughout the student section with an all Duke-blue outfit that covered his entire face so he couldn't see the game. While the students were passing him along, the student in the outfit was making lewd gestures. I remember the lead announcer saying, "I am sorry ladies and gentlemen for the offensive gestures this student is making. We apologize." But they had no issues with giving the guy a good 15 seconds of fame. They didn't cut away.

CDC84
02-02-2018, 11:31 AM
ESPN can talk about the Cameron Crazies all they want, but I still feel the best student section in the country is Utah State. Even without Wild Bill behind the basket:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARpzavb7PQk

Alum08
02-02-2018, 11:46 AM
There's some wisdom in those words, spy. I have a 25 y.o. who seems to be breaking out of some of those habits but hasn't done so entirely.


It's not just at Gonzaga, it's everywhere. I watch the Duke Virginia game and even the Cameron crazies are not what they used to be. And it is due to one and only one thing: self-absorbed, entitled millenials that are constantly on Snapchat, Instagram, and their phones. Technology is turning our younger generation into mindless narcissistic zombies; if it's not about them and always about them then it's not really that important. And I'm not joking.


I hate that I sound like an angry old curmudgeon , but it is true. Even my young daughters ages 10 and six are constantly on their devices iuness my wife and I are vigilant about that and limit their access to one hour a day. It's terrible.

https://i.imgur.com/IR4WS3u.png

https://i.imgur.com/EGBUxj6.png

cbbfanatic
02-02-2018, 11:48 AM
It's not just at Gonzaga, it's everywhere. I watch the Duke Virginia game and even the Cameron crazies are not what they used to be. And it is due to one and only one thing: self-absorbed, entitled millenials that are constantly on Snapchat, Instagram, and their phones. Technology is turning our younger generation into mindless narcissistic zombies; if it's not about them and always about them then it's not really that important. And I'm not joking.

there's plenty of self-absorbed narcissism with the boomers (and every other generation) as well. to pretend that the millennials have the market cornered on that one is absurd.

JPtheBeasta
02-02-2018, 11:56 AM
there's plenty of self-absorbed narcissism with the boomers (and every other generation) as well. to pretend that the millennials have the market cornered on that one is absurd.

They aren’t too bad at saving money, either. 1 in 6 have $100,000 in the bank, so they should be able to afford to pay attention.

hooter73
02-02-2018, 11:56 AM
If you ask me its all that rap music and video games that are desensitizing the youth of today. Now get off my lawn!

Honestly what made GU is over. It was the underdogs, go anywhere, play anyone, overachieve, win, and yes, fans that had some excitement about being on the way up. Beer and no cell phones helped, but its a new age and no program can recapture what happened damn near 20 years ago. Sad but its reality.

thespywhozaggedme
02-02-2018, 11:58 AM
there's plenty of self-absorbed narcissism with the boomers (and every other generation) as well. to pretend that the millennials have the market cornered on that one is absurd.

I adamantly disagree. I'm 45 and use my phone for actual phone purposes, pictures of my kids and occasionally voice texting like I am right now. The average millennial can't even have a face-to-face conversation because their device is right up in their mug. Let me ask you this, and try to be as a objective as possible: what is the purpose of a "selfie"? It is the epitome of narcissism. This constant second by second desperate need for attention and validation via Snapchat and Instagram is literally turning our younger generation into mindless zombies. And I am not joking. Sure there are other people that use technology but it does not dominate and consume every minute of their lives like it does millennial's.

cbbfanatic
02-02-2018, 12:30 PM
I adamantly disagree. I'm 45 and use my phone for actual phone purposes, pictures of my kids and occasionally voice texting like I am right now. The average millennial can't even have a face-to-face conversation because their device is right up in their mug. Let me ask you this, and try to be as a objective as possible: what is the purpose of a "selfie"? It is the epitome of narcissism. This constant second by second desperate need for attention and validation via Snapchat and Instagram is literally turning our younger generation into mindless zombies. And I am not joking. Sure there are other people that use technology but it does not dominate and consume every minute of their lives like it does millennial's.

technology is not the only path to narcissism

if there's a generational angle to this, i'd suggest that its that younger generations are accustomed to more (and better) avenues of entertainment. so you have to bring something a little more compelling to get them engaged. the wcc sched plus a bunch of 250+ rpi dogs in OOC will not do that

they'll be excited when the games feel like they matter. when you coast and dont have to really h it that high a bar to dominate at home, it's just not as interesting. the stakes arent there

PeninsulaDog
02-02-2018, 12:43 PM
Success breeds complacency -- it's the way of the world. And with GU administration's relentless homogenization, codification and sanitization of the Kennel Club, you can hardly blame the kids for looking unenthusiastic. Like insects in a bell jar under the watchful eyes of security, student life functionaries, and the inevitable student snitches. And anyway, the atmosphere in K2 is very low energy in general and that affliction is by no means limited to the Kennel Club -- the rest of the building looks like an oil painting of a crowd on most nights, and always has.

therocket
02-02-2018, 12:47 PM
technology is not the only path to narcissism

if there's a generational angle to this, i'd suggest that its that younger generations are accustomed to more (and better) avenues of entertainment. so you have to bring something a little more compelling to get them engaged. the wcc sched plus a bunch of 250+ rpi dogs in OOC will not do that

they'll be excited when the games feel like they matter. when you coast and dont have to really h it that high a bar to dominate at home, it's just not as interesting. the stakes arent there


Took my son to the game and even he remarked at how bad they were. It sucks. Starting the second half was embarrassing to watch.

zagsfanforlife
02-02-2018, 04:08 PM
Limiting the amount of women allowed to attend an event isn't a position. It's a ridiculous statement which requires no debate. Do I really need to rebut with, hey I think that women and men attending Gonzaga should receive an equal chance at obtaining tickets to a basketball game? Really? This is a debate that you feel is required?

His position was that the lack of enthusiasm and attentiveness to the game was contributed partly to the amount of women in attendance. I assume he is meaning that a basketball game and motivating a team at key spots in the game pertains less to women in general than it does to men--- and i will be the first to agree with this. If you are triggered by it, you sound a bit soft to me. Sometimes the truth hurts. I have been around the game my whole life, dont consider myself sexist, but a realist. Do i think a mens college basketball game would be more engaging to a male as opposed to a female, and more of a social event for a female than a male? I sure do. Sue me.

kclubfounder
02-02-2018, 06:12 PM
Interesting thread. VERY interesting, for me at least.

I'm wondering how much the administration may be responsible for the "taming" of the Kennel Club. Or the NEUTERING of the Kennel Club!

My suspicion is that the administration has a LOT to do with it. A group of fanatic fans who expressed themselves in creative and spontaneous ways has been turned into a glorified cheer section.

To me, one of the founding fathers of the KC, that sucks.

I could give numerous examples of how the KC is being neutered, but I'll only give 3. 1) Every sign is checked on the way in the door, and if the most delicate snowflake could potentially be offended, the sign is not allowed. 2) Every conceivable "chant" or "cheer" that is initiated by the KC MUST get prior approval from the powers that be. For example, when I was a student and the legendary "Herman Munster" chant was started, we would have been shut down. 3) Students used to turn their backs during the introduction of the opponents. Hello, this was such a common antic! But now, GU students are not allowed to do it because it will HURT FEELINGS.

Bottom line, if you are pissed about the Kennel Club losing some of its Je Ne Sais Quoi, you may want to fight back against political correctness.

Zagger
02-02-2018, 07:10 PM
I'm sure there are countless explanations for this problem (e.g., cell phones, apathy after reaching the BB pinnacle last year, etc, etc.). The solution rests with leadership; leadership from the kennel club hierarchy, and the cheerleaders. They need to step up!!

Yep. Just got a survey from GU about home games. Looks like we're not the only ones noticing an issue. I'd love to learn the results of the survey.

Alum08
02-02-2018, 07:15 PM
Yep. Just got a survey from GU about home games. Looks like we're not the only ones noticing an issue. I'd love to learn the results of the survey.

Could you post the survey or the gist of it?

Zagceo
02-02-2018, 07:20 PM
technology is not the only path to narcissism

if there's a generational angle to this, i'd suggest that its that younger generations are accustomed to more (and better) avenues of entertainment. so you have to bring something a little more compelling to get them engaged. the wcc sched plus a bunch of 250+ rpi dogs in OOC will not do that

they'll be excited when the games feel like they matter. when you coast and dont have to really h it that high a bar to dominate at home, it's just not as interesting. the stakes arent there

Don't ya find it interesting that some founders don't allow their kids on social media?

eye opening if you haven't watched it yet

he's lecturing Stanford MBA students


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMotykw0SIk

Bouldin4Prez
02-02-2018, 07:53 PM
His position was that the lack of enthusiasm and attentiveness to the game was contributed partly to the amount of women in attendance. I assume he is meaning that a basketball game and motivating a team at key spots in the game pertains less to women in general than it does to men--- and i will be the first to agree with this. If you are triggered by it, you sound a bit soft to me. Sometimes the truth hurts. I have been around the game my whole life, dont consider myself sexist, but a realist. Do i think a mens college basketball game would be more engaging to a male as opposed to a female, and more of a social event for a female than a male? I sure do. Sue me.

I hope you have a daughter, which chooses to attend GU, that you have to pay $50,000 a year in tuition and associated costs with attending the school. While she is there, I hope GU is still as much fun as it is now to root for in basketball. I hope you are able to call her after one of these games and she can tell you how much fun it was going to the game and rooting for the team. I do not hope she calls you and tells you "Sorry dad, I can't go to the games, only guys are allowed to go to the games because they cheer louder than the girls". This will be my last reply on the topic. Sometimes a debate requires more than just laying out the facts. Sometimes it requires some empathy. If that makes me soft, so be it. Apparently I'm a snowflake.

Zags11
02-02-2018, 09:37 PM
Can't wait until snowflake is old to say.

kitzbuel
02-02-2018, 09:45 PM
His position was that the lack of enthusiasm and attentiveness to the game was contributed partly to the amount of women in attendance. I assume he is meaning that a basketball game and motivating a team at key spots in the game pertains less to women in general than it does to men--- and i will be the first to agree with this. If you are triggered by it, you sound a bit soft to me. Sometimes the truth hurts. I have been around the game my whole life, dont consider myself sexist, but a realist. Do i think a mens college basketball game would be more engaging to a male as opposed to a female, and more of a social event for a female than a male? I sure do. Sue me.
I can’t say I am seeing that. I have taken my daughter to a couple Zag games and several other college basketball games. She is way more involved than I am. Same with baseball games. Does she do it in a different manner than me? Probably. Is she less enthusiastic? Definitely not.

The Kennel Club did just fine for the last 15 or so years. I don’t see how, now that it is lackluster this year, it becomes the fault of women. There just isn’t the same enthusiasm this year as there was with last years epic run. It is very anti-climactic this year.

raise the zag
02-02-2018, 10:09 PM
Interesting thread. VERY interesting, for me at least.

I'm wondering how much the administration may be responsible for the "taming" of the Kennel Club. Or the NEUTERING of the Kennel Club!

My suspicion is that the administration has a LOT to do with it. A group of fanatic fans who expressed themselves in creative and spontaneous ways has been turned into a glorified cheer section.

To me, one of the founding fathers of the KC, that sucks.

I could give numerous examples of how the KC is being neutered, but I'll only give 3. 1) Every sign is checked on the way in the door, and if the most delicate snowflake could potentially be offended, the sign is not allowed. 2) Every conceivable "chant" or "cheer" that is initiated by the KC MUST get prior approval from the powers that be. For example, when I was a student and the legendary "Herman Munster" chant was started, we would have been shut down. 3) Students used to turn their backs during the introduction of the opponents. Hello, this was such a common antic! But now, GU students are not allowed to do it because it will HURT FEELINGS.

Bottom line, if you are pissed about the Kennel Club losing some of its Je Ne Sais Quoi, you may want to fight back against political correctness.

This.

zagsfanforlife
02-02-2018, 11:05 PM
I hope you have a daughter, which chooses to attend GU, that you have to pay $50,000 a year in tuition and associated costs with attending the school. While she is there, I hope GU is still as much fun as it is now to root for in basketball. I hope you are able to call her after one of these games and she can tell you how much fun it was going to the game and rooting for the team. I do not hope she calls you and tells you "Sorry dad, I can't go to the games, only guys are allowed to go to the games because they cheer louder than the girls". This will be my last reply on the topic. Sometimes a debate requires more than just laying out the facts. Sometimes it requires some empathy. If that makes me soft, so be it. Apparently I'm a snowflake.

At least you admit empathy gets in the way of reality for you. You can be empathetic and take anyone into the club who wants to but don’t complain if attentiveness is off. It’s noy a false statement to say a male is more likely to be in tuned and knowing what to cheer for as opposed to a female. That’s a fact. There are outliers of course. But if GU played duke this year, do you think a make or female will have a better chance at taunting Grayson Allen about “tripping up”? That’s the point. You want creativity, attentiveness and relativity in cheers— to say the OP was way off base is not true. My point would be to screen these people before joining. Maybe they do. But give them sort of basketball aptitude test. If you don’t know about hoops but are using it as just a social thing or a resume builder, the results will be what we are seeing—- kids not caring about the game, on their phones, not cheering at the right time, etc.

kitzbuel
02-03-2018, 03:05 AM
At least you admit empathy gets in the way of reality for you. You can be empathetic and take anyone into the club who wants to but don’t complain if attentiveness is off. It’s noy a false statement to say a male is more likely to be in tuned and knowing what to cheer for as opposed to a female. That’s a fact. There are outliers of course. But if GU played duke this year, do you think a make or female will have a better chance at taunting Grayson Allen about “tripping up”? That’s the point. You want creativity, attentiveness and relativity in cheers— to say the OP was way off base is not true. My point would be to screen these people before joining. Maybe they do. But give them sort of basketball aptitude test. If you don’t know about hoops but are using it as just a social thing or a resume builder, the results will be what we are seeing—- kids not caring about the game, on their phones, not cheering at the right time, etc.
Then why was the Kennel Club more active/creative/effective in the last few years with the exact same composition?

TexasZag
02-03-2018, 04:00 AM
https://i.imgur.com/IR4WS3u.png

https://i.imgur.com/EGBUxj6.png

It's as common as wrinkles and grey hair. Every generation tends to look at the up and coming generations with a critical eye, yet societies advance and technological advances continue. Funny how life works. It's not stagnant. My generation was witness to massive evolutions in communication methodologies and technology. It is no different now. Another common thread from one generation to the next is resistance to change. The institutions and traditions my generation values will take different forms, subtle as may be, with the next group through. Such is life. There is no turning back the clock.

And I am befuddled any time someone assigns specific behaviors to a particular gender, then claims not to be sexist. As if having a vagina makes it impossible to be a fan of sports. It smacks of sexism, like it or not.

Oh, one more thing: the current generation did not develop in a vacuum, we steered them in this direction. Whether it be how we raised them or the technologies we gave them, we set the stage. So next time someone feels like throwing millennials, for instance, under the bus, take a look in the mirror, first.

kitzbuel
02-03-2018, 06:33 AM
Oh, one more thing: the current generation did not develop in a vacuum, we steered them in this direction. Whether it be how we raised them or the technologies we gave them, we set the stage. So next time someone feels like throwing millennials, for instance, under the bus, take a look in the mirror, first.
Ha Ha. That is something I always notice when us Gen X'rs complain about Millennials. They are OUR freakin' kids! We raised 'em this way. I keep thinking about that apple and tree saying.

Zagdawg
02-03-2018, 07:36 AM
A Millennial Job Interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo0KjdDJr1c

vandalzag
02-03-2018, 08:10 AM
At least you admit empathy gets in the way of reality for you. You can be empathetic and take anyone into the club who wants to but don’t complain if attentiveness is off. It’s noy a false statement to say a male is more likely to be in tuned and knowing what to cheer for as opposed to a female. That’s a fact. There are outliers of course. But if GU played duke this year, do you think a make or female will have a better chance at taunting Grayson Allen about “tripping up”? That’s the point. You want creativity, attentiveness and relativity in cheers— to say the OP was way off base is not true. My point would be to screen these people before joining. Maybe they do. But give them sort of basketball aptitude test. If you don’t know about hoops but are using it as just a social thing or a resume builder, the results will be what we are seeing—- kids not caring about the game, on their phones, not cheering at the right time, etc.

I think your on to something. I would first question how women are supposed to get fired up about yelling at Grayson Allen and other basketball players when they spend all their time baking, doing their hair, and reading gossip magazines? That is just too much for the female brain to handle. Next thing you know they will want to be Doctors and Lawyers. But why stop at gender. We should break it to ethnicity as well. I am sure some male races (we know we can rule out women right away) are better suited to creativity, attentiveness, and relativity in cheers. Of course to narrow the pool any further we would have to eliminate any with affiliations to religion that may not be able to understand the game. As you say there will be outliers, but if we really refine our search we can limit the the number of men that are unable to cheer at a basketball game.

Zags11
02-03-2018, 08:16 AM
I think your on to something. I would first question how women are supposed to get fired up about yelling at Grayson Allen and other basketball players when they spend all their time baking, doing their hair, and reading gossip magazines? That is just too much for the female brain to handle. Next thing you know they will want to be Doctors and Lawyers. But why stop at gender. We should break it to ethnicity as well. I am sure some male races (we know we can rule out women right away) are better suited to creativity, attentiveness, and relativity in cheers. Of course to narrow the pool any further we would have to eliminate any with affiliations to religion that may not be able to understand the game. As you say there will be outliers, but if we really refine our search we can limit the the number of men that are unable to cheer at a basketball game.

:000tens::000tens::000tens:

CaliforniaZaggin'
02-03-2018, 11:27 AM
This is interesting. The sexist comment remains, but my post asking why it wasn't removed was deleted. Mmmkay.

scott257
02-03-2018, 11:53 AM
I have always enjoyed watching the students when they show them.....but after watching the freak show kid pulling up his shirt and playing with his nipples every time the camera was on him during the game, I thought that either someone needs to set some standards or they should just move the kids behind the basket until they get their act together. They get prime seats and they need to respect that privilege, there are many schools that sell those seats for a higher price and stick the kids behind one of the baskets. I think the students have a responsibility that comes with those better seats, perhaps it is time to make that clear to them.

kitzbuel
02-03-2018, 12:04 PM
I have always enjoyed watching the students when they show them.....but after watching the freak show kid pulling up his shirt and playing with his nipples every time the camera was on him during the game, I thought that either someone needs to set some standards or they should just move the kids behind the basket until they get their act together. They get prime seats and they need to respect that privilege, there are many schools that sell those seats for a higher price and stick the kids behind one of the baskets. I think the students have a responsibility that comes with those better seats, perhaps it is time to make that clear to them.
Or maybe the TV producer decides that that is not the shot that is going to be beamed out on the airwaves. That is the producers responsibility there. The producer made a conscious decision to show that specific shot.

Zags11
02-03-2018, 12:50 PM
The best thing about this thread besides the truth the kc club sucks this yr?

The sexist comments with political comments......



And this thread is 5 stars. Lmaoooooo.

TexasZagFan
02-03-2018, 01:05 PM
The best thing about this thread besides the truth the kc club sucks this yr?

The sexist comments with political comments......



And this thread is 5 stars. Lmaoooooo.

And to think I was going to put myself in timeout today...:lmao:

23dpg
02-03-2018, 01:25 PM
The best thing about this thread besides the truth the kc club sucks this yr?

The sexist comments with political comments......



And this thread is 5 stars. Lmaoooooo.

1. You care too much about stats, let it go. It fuels whoever gives you that rating.

2. The TZF post is incomprehensible. I just don’t get it, especially considering the source. Even in the old Crosby Center Tex’s post were usually well thought out and well reasoned. I generally sat on the opposite side of the political fence but always read his posts with interest. I can’t remember a post so inflamitoty. Tex, you’re better than that but I’ll give you a mulligan due to your years of stellar posts.