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Reborn
02-01-2018, 08:03 PM
Gonzaga 69
San Diego 59

Good defense. And Jonathan Williams is really playing great. He's really showing his leadership right now, and giving everything he has. He reminds me of that saying I love, "You got to leave it all on the court." Unfortunately, only a Few Zags came to this game with that kind of passion. Melson and Kispert were the other two in my opinion. Unfortunately Spectrum TV was unable to show the last 3 and a half minutes of the game, and Spectrum internet was also down so I had no idea how the game ended. Maybe someone who has Direct TV could tell us about the last 3 and a half minutes.

Inconsistent is the key word for Gonzaga. Outside of the three guys I mentioned I would have to say that the others played poorly, What else can you say about the offense? 41% shooting> Pretty bad. Perkins 5 for 15. A total of 7 assists for the team. Yep. 7. And this is how Gonzaga plays when there are not very many assists. Way too much one on one. It was a good thing we were not playing St Mary's tonight because we would have lost. This was exactly how we looked offensively against St Mary's. Only reason we won, is San Diego is not as good of an offensive team as St Mary's.

Unfortunately, I am in total agreement with Abe's assessment of Perkins. I've agreed all along, but have withheld my opinion until now. I'm honestly tired of watching him play. I'll take Ravet over him any day. Unfortunately, because he's the point guard when he plays this way the whole team suffers. Tillie gets 4 shots? What's that about? What kind of coaching is that. He's one of our best offensive player.

And Rui has been my favorite player all season, and his effort and passion tonight was simply pathetic. He acted like he couldn't care less. I really did enjoy watching JW3 and Melson and Kispert. Glad to see these guys giving it all they had. Great shooting by Kispert. So happy for him. Great to see him bounce back. And our two seniors are really stepping up. Too bad Josh can't.

I'm out of here.

Go Zags!!!

RenoZag
02-01-2018, 08:15 PM
Melson and Kispert were the other two in my opinion. Unfortunately Spectrum TV was unable to show the last 3 and a half minutes of the game, and Spectrum internet was also down so I had no idea how the game ended. Maybe someone who has Direct TV could tell us about the last 3 and a half minutes.

Reborn: If you click on the "Play by Play" tab in the Stats Link http://stats.statbroadcast.com/statmonitr/?id=191707 You can reconstruct the action . . .

Here's a recap of sorts:

USD 3PTR BY #03 CARTER III 02:52 57-61 H 4
USD ASSIST BY #01 WILLIAMS 02:52 -
GON MISSED LAYUP BY #00 MELSON 02:30 -
USD BLOCK BY #00 PINEIRO 02:30 -
GON OFF REBOUND BY #21 HACHIMURA 02:28 -
GON LAYUP BY #21 HACHIMURA 02:27 57-63 H 6
USD MISSED 3PTR BY #00 PINEIRO 02:12 -
USD OFF REBOUND BY #TM TEAM 02:12 -
USD LAYUP BY #03 CARTER III 01:57 59-63 H 4
GON LAYUP BY #13 PERKINS 01:27 59-65 H 6
USD FOUL ON #03 CARTER III 01:27 -
GON FT BY #13 PERKINS 01:27 59-66 H 7
GON FOUL ON #00 MELSON 01:12 -
USD MISSED JUMPER BY #22 WRIGHT 01:00 -
GON DEF REBOUND BY #21 HACHIMURA 01:00 -
GON 3PTR BY #23 NORVELL JR. 00:37 59-69 H 10
GON ASSIST BY #00 MELSON 00:37 -
USD MISSED 3PTR BY #20 NEUBAUER 00:23 -
GON DEF REBOUND BY #00 MELSON 00:23 -

When GU got a rebound at :23 to play, up by ten, USD chose not to foul to "extend the game" . . .

Nevada Don
02-01-2018, 08:18 PM
Did I finally say something intelligent recently? Nah, I didn't think so either.

01-06
reply with quote

Originally Posted by SWZag
Now that St Mary's has played both BYU and USD, which of the two is the better team? (BYU lost at Pacific tonight).

Jeez, good question and I don't know the answer. BYU was at The Marriott Center so that's a factor. I can tell you that I was very concerned and worried during the USD game tonight about SMC losing this game. Guess I'd have to say USD is the tougher of the two teams.
However, I was pretty drunk tonight so I blacked out several times during the game.

willandi
02-01-2018, 08:27 PM
There was a stretch that I really enjoyed. The "20's" were playing some very good interior to exterior defense. I loved it.

The 20's? 21, 23 and 24...Rui, Norvelle Jr and Kispert. I was impressed.

Reborn
02-01-2018, 08:27 PM
Reborn: If you click on the "Play by Play" tab in the Stats Link http://stats.statbroadcast.com/statmonitr/?id=191707 You can reconstruct the action . . .

Here's a recap of sorts:

USD 3PTR BY #03 CARTER III 02:52 57-61 H 4
USD ASSIST BY #01 WILLIAMS 02:52 -
GON MISSED LAYUP BY #00 MELSON 02:30 -
USD BLOCK BY #00 PINEIRO 02:30 -
GON OFF REBOUND BY #21 HACHIMURA 02:28 -
GON LAYUP BY #21 HACHIMURA 02:27 57-63 H 6
USD MISSED 3PTR BY #00 PINEIRO 02:12 -
USD OFF REBOUND BY #TM TEAM 02:12 -
USD LAYUP BY #03 CARTER III 01:57 59-63 H 4
GON LAYUP BY #13 PERKINS 01:27 59-65 H 6
USD FOUL ON #03 CARTER III 01:27 -
GON FT BY #13 PERKINS 01:27 59-66 H 7
GON FOUL ON #00 MELSON 01:12 -
USD MISSED JUMPER BY #22 WRIGHT 01:00 -
GON DEF REBOUND BY #21 HACHIMURA 01:00 -
GON 3PTR BY #23 NORVELL JR. 00:37 59-69 H 10
GON ASSIST BY #00 MELSON 00:37 -
USD MISSED 3PTR BY #20 NEUBAUER 00:23 -
GON DEF REBOUND BY #00 MELSON 00:23 -

When GU got a rebound at :23 to play, up by ten, USD chose not to foul to "extend the game" . . .

Thanks Reno. I liked the rebound by Hachimura and put back. Way to go Rui.I'd also say that 8 points in the last three minutes is real good. Nice 3 pointer by Norvell too. Only two points for San Diego in last 3 minutes. Great D. This seems like the San Francisco game. Who is, by the way, getting killed by St Mary's tonight.

Reborn
02-01-2018, 08:29 PM
There was a stretch that I really enjoyed. The "20's" were playing some very good interior to exterior defense. I loved it.

The 20's? 21, 23 and 24...Rui, Norvelle Jr and Kispert. I was impressed.

Yes I love those three guys.

Pallet
02-01-2018, 08:59 PM
I thought the lineups were interesting. Towards the end Few went with the starters (of course), but with Rui in Tillie's spot. Tillie just didn't have it tonight and Rui had finally woken up to playing hard on defense. On offense, Rui just stood in the corner while the other four guys ran the offense; seemed like he didn't want to mess anything up and just stay out of the way.

krozman
02-01-2018, 09:13 PM
I think if we didn't convert all those offensive rebounds into points, we could have been trounced. Perkins was missing layups as per usual. NOBODY had more than 2 assists. Usually you beat good defensive teams with .....teamwork and I didn't see as much as I thought I'd see.

TexasZagFan
02-01-2018, 10:32 PM
Reborn: If you click on the "Play by Play" tab in the Stats Link http://stats.statbroadcast.com/statmonitr/?id=191707 You can reconstruct the action . . .

Here's a recap of sorts:

USD 3PTR BY #03 CARTER III 02:52 57-61 H 4
USD ASSIST BY #01 WILLIAMS 02:52 -
GON MISSED LAYUP BY #00 MELSON 02:30 -
USD BLOCK BY #00 PINEIRO 02:30 -
GON OFF REBOUND BY #21 HACHIMURA 02:28 -
GON LAYUP BY #21 HACHIMURA 02:27 57-63 H 6
USD MISSED 3PTR BY #00 PINEIRO 02:12 -
USD OFF REBOUND BY #TM TEAM 02:12 -
USD LAYUP BY #03 CARTER III 01:57 59-63 H 4
GON LAYUP BY #13 PERKINS 01:27 59-65 H 6
USD FOUL ON #03 CARTER III 01:27 -
GON FT BY #13 PERKINS 01:27 59-66 H 7
GON FOUL ON #00 MELSON 01:12 -
USD MISSED JUMPER BY #22 WRIGHT 01:00 -
GON DEF REBOUND BY #21 HACHIMURA 01:00 -
GON 3PTR BY #23 NORVELL JR. 00:37 59-69 H 10
GON ASSIST BY #00 MELSON 00:37 -
USD MISSED 3PTR BY #20 NEUBAUER 00:23 -
GON DEF REBOUND BY #00 MELSON 00:23 -

When GU got a rebound at :23 to play, up by ten, USD chose not to foul to "extend the game" . . .

Good job Reno, you had as much volume on this recap as the Kennel Club.

TexasZagFan
02-01-2018, 10:33 PM
I think if we didn't convert all those offensive rebounds into points, we could have been trounced. Perkins was missing layups as per usual. NOBODY had more than 2 assists. Usually you beat good defensive teams with .....teamwork and I didn't see as much as I thought I'd see.

Yeah, it was ragged tonight, but the pace was as frenetic as we could make it. IMO that contributed to SD's poor shooting down the stretch...tired legs, etc.

TexasZagFan
02-01-2018, 11:07 PM
Gonzaga 69
San Diego 59

Good defense. And Jonathan Williams is really playing great. He's really showing his leadership right now, and giving everything he has. He reminds me of that saying I love, "You got to leave it all on the court." Unfortunately, only a Few Zags came to this game with that kind of passion. Melson and Kispert were the other two in my opinion. Unfortunately Spectrum TV was unable to show the last 3 and a half minutes of the game, and Spectrum internet was also down so I had no idea how the game ended. Maybe someone who has Direct TV could tell us about the last 3 and a half minutes.

Inconsistent is the key word for Gonzaga. Outside of the three guys I mentioned I would have to say that the others played poorly, What else can you say about the offense? 41% shooting> Pretty bad. Perkins 5 for 15. 7 assists. Yep. 7. And this is how Gonzaga plays when there are not very many assists. Way too much one on one. It was a good thing we were not playing St Mary's tonight because we would have lost. This was exactly how we looked offensively against St Mary's. Only reason we won, is San Diego is not as good of an offensive team as St Mary's.

Unfortunately, I am in total agreement with Abe's assessment of Perkins. I've agreed all along, but have withheld my opinion until now. I'm honestly tired of watching him play. I'll take Ravet over him any day. Unfortunately, because he's the point guard when he plays this way the whole team suffers. Tillie gets 4 shots? What's that about? What kind of coaching is that. He's one of our best offensive player.

And Rui has been my favorite player all season, and his effort and passion tonight was simply pathetic. He acted like he couldn't care less. I really did enjoy watching JW3 and Melson and Kispert. Glad to see these guys giving it all they had. Great shooting by Kispert. So happy for him. Great to see him bounce back. And our two seniors are really stepping up. Too bad Josh can't.

I'm out of here.

Go Zags!!!

Damn, I love Josh...great kid, excellent student, but he's so up and down. And then I see this quote from the SR:


“I missed some easy ones, but made the ones that count,” Perkins said. “Shout out to my teammates for keeping my head in it.”

Josh, you're the freaking point guard, and supposed to be a leader that teammates can look to. By now, you shouldn't need anyone to keep your head in the game.

I'm not so much worried about Rui, his past two games are indicative of "hitting the wall". He's not ready to be on the court for 20+ minutes per game. IMO it's mental not physical.

Tillie disappeared again...four shots? I put that on the coaches.

Good for Silas, he needed to amp up his aggressiveness.

Zags11
02-02-2018, 12:22 AM
Damn, I love Josh...great kid, excellent student, but he's so up and down. And then I see this quote from the SR:



Josh, you're the freaking point guard, and supposed to be a leader that teammates can look to. By now, you shouldn't need anyone to keep your head in the game.

I'm not so much worried about Rui, his past two games are indicative of "hitting the wall". He's not ready to be on the court for 20+ minutes per game. IMO it's mental not physical.

Tillie disappeared again...four shots? I put that on the coaches.

Good for Silas, he needed to amp up his aggressiveness.

This is my issue. Tillie has disappeared in more games then anyone on this roster. Excuses are made. Perkins sucks and its bench him.

Skimhvn
02-02-2018, 12:26 AM
I thought Rui did good D in the end of the game and Few made a good decision to put him.

sheps001
02-02-2018, 12:30 AM
The game was on ESPN 3 on the net in high def and was great. Always check this out first.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-02-2018, 01:39 AM
There was a stretch that I really enjoyed. The "20's" were playing some very good interior to exterior defense. I loved it.

The 20's? 21, 23 and 24...Rui, Norvelle Jr and Kispert. I was impressed.

This stuck out for me as well. Zagsí best stretch of ball was in 2nd half with this lineup: Melson, Norvell, Kispert, Rui [Tillie?], JWIII. Not certain if it was Tillie or Rui in then but definitely Melson, Kispert, Norvell together brought the best flow last night. Iím not putting down Perkins but what happened to his scoring...and man the drives deep into the lane then missed bunnies are painful to watch.

Tillie no-showing is more about him, imho, then the coaches or PG. He has got to demand the ball and get vocal if necessary; impose his will and considerable talent on the game. He seems content to just go through the motions and get only 4 shots. Big red flag for me if Iím an NBA GM...if he coasts like this as a collegian what will motivate him when he has a fat bank account and 82 game schedule?

Melson and JWIII are leading by example. Norvell took and made some very gutsy 3ís late...bad oshots early in the shot clock but I love the courage and of course that he knocked them down.

Larsen not the same player as we saw earlier this season. Sorry to say but I think the way he has been jerked around in terms of minutes has shattered his confidence. Look at him vs Villanova vs last night...totally different player imho; itís either a confidence issue or knee issue and hopefully the former or he shouldnít be playing at all.

Alum08
02-02-2018, 01:44 AM
Live by Perkins, die by Perkins is this year's motto. He gets hot in the tourney and we could make another F4. I just don't have the confidence that he can find his rhythm against top competition.

TravelinZag
02-02-2018, 02:24 AM
Reborn’s assessment hit it completely. Not his typing, though, not (been there myself). Perkins did not have 7 assists. Hope he can regain his intensity. No real choice or chance since Wade has not developed.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-02-2018, 03:41 AM
Reborn’s assessment hit it completely. Not his typing, though, not (been there myself). Perkins did not have 7 assists. Hope he can regain his intensity. No real choice or chance since Wade has not developed.

I think Reborn meant seven assists for the entire team.

Reborn
02-02-2018, 05:47 AM
Reborn’s assessment hit it completely. Not his typing, though, not (been there myself). Perkins did not have 7 assists. Hope he can regain his intensity. No real choice or chance since Wade has not developed.

Thanks for the feedback. I fixed it. It reads better now.

Coach Crazy
02-02-2018, 06:44 AM
This team will live and die by Perkins. Killian had simply faded, and J3 needs a traditional 5, so he's not the primary block. This motion offense element that has been added is going to take some work, as well. These guys don't have an ultra-efficient deep post entry to rely on. Which means you *have to* get points from the face-up/dribble drive. We've see that from CK, Snacks, and Rui...and some from Melson. BUT...BUT we aren't seeing it from Perkins.

The post entry, as we all know, kept defenses honest and set up better shot selection. When you don't have that element, you end up taking shots that you are less likely to make, or forcing possessions that would have otherwise developed. The face-up/dribble-drive doesn't have to be a lay-up to be successful. And they need to get out of the mentality (if they are in it) that it's only worth continuing if the path is uncontested.

1. The dribble-drive should be used to create defensive rotation issues. Press the lane and make others slot in to help, or even cause defenses to completely collapse. From there you have kick-out's, if you want them.

2. The dribble-drive can be very effective in creating contact. This can lead to foul trouble. Foul trouble on big's also opens tentative defense against guys like J3. And as we all know, it affects depth. The prospect of transition game then becomes a nightmare, and vying for rebounding is also affected, as the kids have to watch their foul counts.

3. As I mentioned earlier, the dribble-drive end game doesn't always have to be a lay-up. Aside from passing out, a defender on his heels isn't in a position to challenge a nice pull-up midrange jumper. There is also a floater. And the flex of spacing during and following a dribble drive/shot combo should provide an opportunity for some offensive rebounds.

Just a few thoughts. But the less these things happen, the less respect you get from the defense when it matters. Also, haven't been impressed with their commitment to the 3-point defense. Either with man-on, spacing, or closing out. Right now, this team could lose its first round game in the NCAA's.

JPtheBeasta
02-02-2018, 06:51 AM
Rui has been frustratingly below average challenge 3-point shots, as it seems he doesn’t recognize his assignment quickly enough at times. He also doesn’t play close enough to his perimeter man a lot of times and they get their shot off way too comfortably when that happens. He has such athleticism and lengthy he should be better than he is, in my opinion.

I’d prefer to put him in the middle of the zone and have Tillie and’/or JW3 on the wing.

Reborn
02-02-2018, 06:55 AM
The post entry, as we all know, kept defenses honest and set up better shot selection. When you don't have that element, you end up taking shots that you are less likely to make, or forcing possessions that would have otherwise developed. The face-up/dribble-drive doesn't have to be a lay-up to be successful. And they need to get out of the mentality (if they are in it) that it's only worth continuing if the path is uncontested.

1. The dribble-drive should be used to create defensive rotation issues. Press the lane and make others slot in to help, or even cause defenses to completely collapse. From there you have kick-out's, if you want them.

2. The dribble-drive can be very effective in creating contact. This can lead to foul trouble. Foul trouble on big's also opens tentative defense against guys like J3. And as we all know, it affects depth. The prospect of transition game then becomes a nightmare, and vying for rebounding is also affected, as the kids have to watch their foul counts.

3. As I mentioned earlier, the dribble-drive end game doesn't always have to be a lay-up. Aside from passing out, a defender on his heels isn't in a position to challenge a nice pull-up midrange jumper. There is also a floater. And the flex of spacing during and following a dribble drive/shot combo should provide an opportunity for some offensive rebounds.

Great analysis. I enjoyed reading it.

Reborn
02-02-2018, 06:57 AM
I may not have given Gonzaga the credit they deserve. St Mary's beat San Diego by only 7 points at home. This tells me San Diego is a tough team. St Mary's plays them at San Diego Saturday. Could be a very interesting game.

Go Zaga!!!

Coach Crazy
02-02-2018, 07:01 AM
Great analysis. I enjoyed reading it.

I haven't felt the need to comment too much. But this is one thing I feel very strongly about. People are noticing that the best combo on the floor tends to be Rui/Zack/CK (who I will forever eat crow about). There is a reason for that, IMO, they are most equipped to be successful in this new hybrid. And while it is frustrating to see the team playing this way, I have to remind myself that this transition is good for recruiting. Few wants a more complete, higher level of player. He's never going to take players who aren't 'OKG', but there are Few/Gonzaga-types in the high 4/5-AA ranks.

A year or two from now, we are going to look back on this year and laugh. We finally got the wing players we want, and they are the reason we have had the success we currently do this season. SMC couldn't stop Rui, CK before his injury was very much in play for team MVP, and Zack Norvell is one of the best freshman in the country. So, in some ways, we are a lot further along than it appears.

bballbeachbum
02-02-2018, 07:13 AM
A year or two from now, we are going to look back on this year and laugh. We finally got the wing players we want, and they are the reason we have had the success we currently do this season. SMC couldn't stop Rui, CK before his injury was very much in play for team MVP, and Zack Norvell is one of the best freshman in the country. So, in some ways, we are a lot further along than it appears.

agree with this

and as for the dribble penetration, been saying the same; the probe dribble, exposing the weakside, collapsing the d, etc.
lots of uses besides all the way to the tin tho that's nice too. Josh's and 1 down the stretch took some guts seems to me after the misses, I give him credit for not wimping out in that situation and making the play. loved Zach's reaction to it

Coach Crazy
02-02-2018, 07:17 AM
I may not have given Gonzaga the credit they deserve. St Mary's beat San Diego by only 7 points at home. This tells me San Diego is a tough team. St Mary's plays them at San Diego Saturday. Could be a very interesting game.

Go Zaga!!!

Great, now I am posting ton. Honestly, if JP shows up, we beat SD by 18-25 points, and SMC by 10-15.

Reborn
02-02-2018, 07:18 AM
Great, now I am posting ton. Honestly, if JP shows up, we beat SD by 18-25 points, and SMC by 10-15.

exactly. And think what we could have done if Tillie had also showed up. Honestly, this team could be so much better if it wasn't so inconsistent.

bballbeachbum
02-02-2018, 07:35 AM
Josh not turning the ball over. But he is shooting it like donkey lately
I think he's drifting on his shot and also fading often, and while he has shown an ability to make those, it's just much tougher and wonder if maybe some action with him off the ball to shake him free might help?

anyway, that is different than whatever is going on with KT; just can't imagine his dow jones act is going to get him drafted well, but we'll see. His D was not good last night.

if Josh can keep the turnovers down and get back to shooting he's shown before--do both of these things together--obviously a better chance for the Zags.

TexasZagFan
02-02-2018, 08:13 AM
I may not have given Gonzaga the credit they deserve. St Mary's beat San Diego by only 7 points at home. This tells me San Diego is a tough team. St Mary's plays them at San Diego Saturday. Could be a very interesting game.

Go Zaga!!!

I donít see it. The Toreros left it all on the court against us. Even at home they wonít have enough in the tank, mentally or physically to make the Gaels work up a sweat.

WallaWallaZag
02-02-2018, 08:38 AM
Inconsistent is the key word for Gonzaga. Tillie gets 4 shots? What's that about? What kind of coaching is that. He's one of our best offensive players. I'm out of here. Go Zags!!!

tillie going awol isn't on the coaches...he usually disappears anytime someone gets physical and gets up in his grill...

Bogozags
02-02-2018, 08:41 AM
Guys and Gals, This year's team just isn't as good as last years, so I think we need to keep this real!!!

With Regards to Tillie:
I'm not understanding all the negativity on Tillie "not showing up!" He only had four shots and the rest of the time he passed to either JIII or was involved in Pick&Rolls...it is really difficult for two players to be "The Go To Guy" on the low block!

Let's just talk about Conference Games...

Tillie has outscored JIII 6 times in 11 games and JIII outscored Tillie 3 times.

Tillie has scored 135 points (12.3ppg) and JIII scored 130 points (11.9ppg) in 11 games.

Both have scored in double digits six times with Tillie having two games of 20+pts and JIII one game of 20+pts.

Tillie averages 6.2rpg/1.7apg/1.4tpg
JII averages 6.6rpg/1.4apg/1.3tpg

Against SMC Tillie had 11pts, 8reb, 1assist and 2 TO's...JIII had 13pts, 6reb, 3assists and 1TO

Both players had two games where they "BOTH" only scored single digits...the first two games.

Except for the first two conference games, they have each scored double digits, when the other scored in single digits.

In one game they both scored 16pts - home vs USF.

Tillie is 36% from behind the arc while JIII is at 17% and Tillie is shooting 64% from the line while JIII shoots 53%.

So over the 11 conference games, these two players are pretty darn even.

It is extremely difficult for both Tillie and JIII to have outstanding games in the low post at the same time UNLESS their hi-low game is working at an exceptional level.

There is only one basket and one ball on offence so they both can't be playing on the low post at the same time...

JIII and Tillie have pretty much complimented each other...they have in essence been "brother-in-lawing" it in conference play. I will say if Tillie shot and made more threes then that would open up the middle even more but he only takes an average of two shots per game from behind the arc.

With regards to Josh:
Josh in the 11 conference games has had four dismal shooting games @PU 3-10; SMC 1-9; USF 3-10; and USD 5-15. In these four games, his assists were: 5, 7, 4, and 0. His TO's over that same span were 4, 1, 1, and 1. In 11 conference games he has averaged 2.3 assist to TO, which is what he averaged over those 4 poor shooting games; however, he has only had one game where he didn't have one assist and that was last night.

There is no doubt that Josh isn't having an AA year BUT if you look at his stats since his RS Freshman year, all his stats are up so he is doing much better this season. There is little doubt that "we" were pretty spoiled last season with NWG playing the point last season but Josh was never going to be a NWG...that isn't his style. He is still "learning" and one positive thing from last evening is that he went to the hoop five times scoring on three of those drives. There is no doubt we would all love him to average 7apg while scoring at 13ppg but that isn't going to happen this season.

U Zig, I Zag
02-02-2018, 08:59 AM
Lots of good takes.

I agree about probing/penetrating and finding something that doesn't always have to be layup. Perkins, though a little wily at times, has really good handles. He gets through and out of situations all the time. He needs to EXPLORE the key with the ball, keeping his dribble. As Crazy mentioned you can float it, let one of our 4's that somehow all play the 5 crash from the weak side, or finish the drive to the hoop. That movement will get you foul shots and shots at the rim.

It's clear that Norvell is our confidence man. I have no problem with him having the ball at end of the half, at the end of the game. Sometimes you just need a c*cky baller on your team that wants the rock and he seems to be that guy.

Unless Larsen is in there, the other bigs are playing out of position. JW3, certainly. Not much you can do about that.

gueastcoast
02-02-2018, 09:18 AM
Josh not turning the ball over. But he is shooting it like donkey lately
I think he's drifting on his shot and also fading often, and while he has shown an ability to make those, it's just much tougher and wonder if maybe some action with him off the ball to shake him free might help?

anyway, that is different than whatever is going on with KT; just can't imagine his dow jones act is going to get him drafted well, but we'll see. His D was not good last night.

if Josh can keep the turnovers down and get back to shooting he's shown before--do both of these things together--obviously a better chance for the Zags.

Watching the game last night, I wondered how much Josh's shoulder effects him on the close-in shots in the paint/around the rim - lay ups, fadeaways, floaters, etc. Those are shots where momentum plays a role and without shoulder stability, his adjustments may be off. With a spot-up 3 or long-jumper in rhythm where he has time to gather himself, it seems to be less of an issue.

JPtheBeasta
02-02-2018, 10:14 AM
I don’t think Perkins is very good at finishing through any amount of contact. He was looking at the officials after every missed layup, it seemed. I didn’t realize a shoulder issue might be at work, here.

MileHigh
02-02-2018, 11:13 AM
I generally dont like to get into the JP debates unless I see some over the top negative hyperbole. There has been a little in this thread, but not much. Josh is, what Josh is, and that is a very inconsistant pg that can have nights where he looks like the best pg in the league and nights (like the majority of last night) where he looks a step slow and out of synch. Everyone (including Josh) is simply looking for him to be more consistent. SOme on this board act like they dont know that about Josh and every time he has a bad game they basically say "he sucks and we will never win with him". That is simply unfair, and IMO not based on fact. Josh can play the position at a high level and has done it against some very good teams during his career at Gonzaga.

These are what I would characterize as fair comments after a game:
"josh had a shiddy game"
"Josh was throwing stupid passes"
"Josh needs to be more consistent with his fundamentals"
"josh has difficulty finishing in traffic"
"sometime Josh doesnt get the bigs involved"
"When Josh plays bad we will likely struggle against good teams and lose against great teams"

The comments that I find to be hyperbole and unfair are things like:
"josh isnt a pg"
" josh is an average shooter and that is really all he can do"
"a 16 year old jr playing HS ball in Washington is already a better pg"
" I dont want to even watch him play anymore"
"Norvell should play pg instead of Josh"
"Josh never shows up in the big games"

Josh is this teams pg for good or bad, but some folks seem to focus on only the bad games and forget about the good games. There will be many, many more good games in the next 14 months for Josh, so buckle in for the ride because there will undoubtedly be some stinkers as well!

john montana
02-02-2018, 11:27 AM
"a 16 year old jr playing HS ball in Washington is already a better pg"

This one absolutely cracks me up.

Alum08
02-02-2018, 11:30 AM
Josh not turning the ball over. But he is shooting it like donkey lately
I think he's drifting on his shot and also fading often, and while he has shown an ability to make those, it's just much tougher and wonder if maybe some action with him off the ball to shake him free might help?


I totally agree that Josh should play off the ball like 20% of the time. He's starting to remind me of Jerryd Bayless. Let him find his natural rhythm as the combo guard and suddenly he'll end up giving you 20pts on the ball.

Ezag
02-02-2018, 11:33 AM
He gets hot in the tourney and we could make another F4. I just don't have the confidence that he can find his rhythm against top competition.

Yea, unlikely when he starts playing against really good competition. His field goal % has remained relatively unchanged the past 3 seasons. This is as good as he is going to be in a Zag uni. Last years Tourney he has was pretty bad in almost every game. There was even 3 tourney games where he had .000 FG% including South Carolina game where he had zero points and Northwestern 2pts and West Virginia 3pts. This was supposed to be the year where he stepped up as the man at PG, but it hasn't really happened.

Hoopaholic
02-02-2018, 11:42 AM
Unlikely when he starts playing against really good competition. His field goal % has remained relatively unchanged the past 3 seasons. This is as good as he is going to be in a Zag uni. Last years Tourney he has was pretty bad in almost every game. There was even 3 tourney games where he had .000 FG% including South Carolina game where he had zero points and Northwestern 2pts and West Virginia 3pts. This was supposed to be the year where he stepped up as the man at PG, but it hasn't really happened.

Guess it depends on your definition of stepping up as a pg

If that definition revolves around team play one could argue he has stepped up as just about every team offensive statistic is up over last years numbers and his person offensive stats are also up...then combined with creating opportunities to win as a team has occurred. Missed free throw and one or two made buckets and we could be talking about a 1 or 2 loss team...but irrespective short of Villanova we have had chances to win each of the three losses

Now if you define stepping up by scoring and shooting percentages in select games you have a solid arguement

bballbeachbum
02-02-2018, 11:55 AM
Watching the game last night, I wondered how much Josh's shoulder effects him on the close-in shots in the paint/around the rim - lay ups, fadeaways, floaters, etc. Those are shots where momentum plays a role and without shoulder stability, his adjustments may be off. With a spot-up 3 or long-jumper in rhythm where he has time to gather himself, it seems to be less of an issue.

didn't know about a shoulder thing either, but clear that would affect things. thanks

hey Alum08, getting Josh off the ball just like getting Nigel off the ball last year at times. copy that idea is all I'm saying, and yes to get the focus off him up top and have his defenders getting screened a lot as he moves around without the ball, make them have to think about that; just tenderize the whole equation there and help him find that stroke and get it going again as it's a huge weapon for this team. if he can refind what has been a strength of his game while maintaining to keep the turnovers down as he's been doing, could be a big deal. if the task was for Josh to learn to dunk with authority while not turning it over, the mountain would seem much higher.

what does all this mean in March? I just hope they play well and win tomorrow!

MileHigh
02-02-2018, 11:58 AM
Last years Tourney he has was pretty bad in almost every game. .

He had 13 points and 3 steals in the championship game, and had had 11 points 5 rebounds and 6 assists in the Xavier game, so I wouldn't characterize either of those two games as being "bad"considering the competition.

he was 1-2 from the field against Northwestern, 0-2 from the field against South Carolina, and didnt take a shot against WV, so those games were games I imagine he isnt proud of.

MileHigh
02-02-2018, 12:07 PM
. But he is shooting it like donkey lately


One truism in basketball that a coach told me years ago is that over the course of a season you will "shoot your average", which means if you are a career 45% 3 point shooter, no matter how well you shoot, or how bad you shoot (over a short stretch of games) you will have stretches equally good or bad to make up for them, where at the end of the season you will generally be right around your average.
This is something I preach to shooters is to not get too worried about bad shooting nights or too giddy about good shooting nights because if you are a good shooter it will all average out in the end

bballbeachbum
02-02-2018, 12:46 PM
One truism in basketball that a coach told me years ago is that over the course of a season you will "shoot your average", which means if you are a career 45% 3 point shooter, no matter how well you shoot, or how bad you shoot (over a short stretch of games) you will have stretches equally good or bad to make up for them, where at the end of the season you will generally be right around your average.
This is something I preach to shooters is to not get too worried about bad shooting nights or too giddy about good shooting nights because if you are a good shooter it will all average out in the end

agreed. another thing is a coach/team can look to help guys get going who may be struggling but have proven they can hit
Josh has proven to have an excellent stroke but has been off a bit and not just one game with his shot; I give some credit to the D, SMC played him very well I thought for example, and also attribute it to his apparent focus on not turning it over, and wonder/hope he can put them both together. and now maybe some shoulder thing I wasn't even aware of. We'll see

maynard g krebs
02-02-2018, 01:37 PM
I may not have given Gonzaga the credit they deserve. St Mary's beat San Diego by only 7 points at home. This tells me San Diego is a tough team. St Mary's plays them at San Diego Saturday. Could be a very interesting game.

Go Zaga!!!

I watched USD beat Colorado on the road (by about 10), something Arizona couldn't manage. Colorado is a tough place to play, even if they're not great this year. A pair of very good guards and a versatile combo forward who is a tough matchup, combined with a very good ("connected", as an announcer put it) defense makes them a tough out.

scrooner
02-02-2018, 01:54 PM
I honestly can't remember....has Josh ever had a decent floater? Every time he puts one up now, I know it's not going in. It just seems to be his least effective shot.

Zags11
02-02-2018, 01:56 PM
Isn't SD #1 in 3pt defense?

maynard g krebs
02-02-2018, 02:20 PM
Yea, unlikely when he starts playing against really good competition. His field goal % has remained relatively unchanged the past 3 seasons. This is as good as he is going to be in a Zag uni. Last years Tourney he has was pretty bad in almost every game. There was even 3 tourney games where he had .000 FG% including South Carolina game where he had zero points and Northwestern 2pts and West Virginia 3pts. This was supposed to be the year where he stepped up as the man at PG, but it hasn't really happened.

If what you do against top competition is the criterion, let's go back to last year's NCAA tourney. Josh shot 11/31 but 25 of those were 3's, of which he made 9. So he scored 31 pts on 31 fg attempts, for an effective fg % of 50% for the tourney. NWG made 33 of 94 fg attempts, including 8 of 23 three pointers, so he scored 74 points on 94 fg attempts, for an effective fg % of 39%.

And anyone who has played knows that the more shot attempts you get, the more you are able to get in a good rhythm with your shooting.

Just so much inaccurate perception on this topic. And since we're talking shooting %, the most useful criterion is effective fg % which factors in 3's. This season, Josh has an effective fg % of 58.6 for the season. Last year NWG was at 53.3 for the season.

Josh also is averaging more assists per game than NWG did last year, with a shade better a/to ratio.

Now, of course NWG did a lot of things better- defending, rebounding, penetrating, finishing in the lane (except in the tourney, where the competition stiffened, as you mentioned above) and drawing fouls. But I was just addressing the things in the quoted post.

ZagsObserver
02-02-2018, 02:25 PM
Gonzaga is on a downward trajectory this season, and SMC is on the upswing as they’ve figured some things out. This doesn’t bode well for Gonzaga.

As for the problem, it’s not one guy. The whole team is out of sync. How to get all back and aligned will not be easy. I hope it happens. The good news is that we’ve seen the team click, so the pieces are here. The bad news is that it’s not just one cig in the wheel that’s misaligned and there is no guarantee that we’ll het back in the groove (in fact, we’re going in the wrong direction).

dhozagfan08
02-02-2018, 02:27 PM
This stuck out for me as well. Zagsí best stretch of ball was in 2nd half with this lineup: Melson, Norvell, Kispert, Rui [Tillie?], JWIII. Not certain if it was Tillie or Rui in then but definitely Melson, Kispert, Norvell together brought the best flow last night. Iím not putting down Perkins but what happened to his scoring...and man the drives deep into the lane then missed bunnies are painful to watch.
Larsen not the same player as we saw earlier this season. Sorry to say but I think the way he has been jerked around in terms of minutes has shattered his confidence. Look at him vs Villanova vs last night...totally different player imho; itís either a confidence issue or knee issue and hopefully the former or he shouldnít be playing at all.

This has happened to so many players over the years. In this case though, it seems to be more of an issue with his knee. He is clearly not right. Same thing with Kispert, who is just starting to look like he is getting closer to his pre-injury self.

maynard g krebs
02-02-2018, 02:27 PM
And as to the general tone of the thread, if I had just flown back from the moon and missed the season, from the tone of the thread I'd never guess the Zags were 6th offensively according to Kenpom (finished 16th last yr), and

fifth in ppg 87+
6th in scoring margin 19+
9th in team fg%
20th in assist/turnover ratio
and 34th in assists per game, 1.1 apg short of top 10.

Fact is that this is a better team offensively than last year's by every measurable. Difference is lack of last year's rim protectors and the effect that has on perimeter defense as well, as so ably pointed out by Zags11.

Gonzdb8
02-02-2018, 02:51 PM
Gonzaga is on a downward trajectory this season, and SMC is on the upswing as they’ve figured some things out. This doesn’t bode well for Gonzaga.

As for the problem, it’s not one guy. The whole team is out of sync. How to get all back and aligned will not be easy. I hope it happens. The good news is that we’ve seen the team click, so the pieces are here. The bad news is that it’s not just one cig in the wheel that’s misaligned and there is no guarantee that we’ll het back in the groove (in fact, we’re going in the wrong direction).

damn...to hear you talk about it the zags cup isn't just half empty, its bone dry! as for smc....on the upswing? please. they had a nice run at the end of our game to eek out a win on our floor. i give them props for that, but outside of that single shining moment they have played nobody (i won't belabor that point as its been well documented on this board, their own board, and in the media). we obviously need to get our house in order if we hope to maximize our potential but we are a better team than SMC despite our struggles.

ZagsObserver
02-02-2018, 03:07 PM
damn...to hear you talk about it the zags cup isn't just half empty, its bone dry! as for smc....on the upswing? please. they had a nice run at the end of our game to eek out a win on our floor. i give them props for that, but outside of that single shining moment they have played nobody (i won't belabor that point as its been well documented on this board, their own board, and in the media). we obviously need to get our house in order if we hope to maximize our potential but we are a better team than SMC despite our struggles.

We were a better team at the beginning of the year. We have better pieces and more potential. At this moment in time I do not believe we win more than 1 out of 3 games against them.

WallaWallaZag
02-02-2018, 03:12 PM
If what you do against top competition is the criterion, let's go back to last year's NCAA tourney. Josh shot 11/31 but 25 of those were 3's, of which he made 9. So he scored 31 pts on 31 fg attempts, for an effective fg % of 50% for the tourney. NWG made 33 of 94 fg attempts, including 8 of 23 three pointers, so he scored 74 points on 94 fg attempts, for an effective fg % of 39%.

And anyone who has played knows that the more shot attempts you get, the more you are able to get in a good rhythm with your shooting.

Just so much inaccurate perception on this topic. And since we're talking shooting %, the most useful criterion is effective fg % which factors in 3's. This season, Josh has an effective fg % of 58.6 for the season. Last year NWG was at 53.3 for the season.

Josh also is averaging more assists per game than NWG did last year, with a shade better a/to ratio.

Now, of course NWG did a lot of things better- defending, rebounding, penetrating, finishing in the lane (except in the tourney, where the competition stiffened, as you mentioned above) and drawing fouls. But I was just addressing the things in the quoted post.

i'll agree with most of this, with one caveat...declining shot attempts when the competition level goes up can also be a sign of an inability to get your shot off against better comp, which i think applies to perkins. nwg could create his own shot against the best, not so much perkins, who has to depend on the system to get him looks.

WallaWallaZag
02-02-2018, 03:29 PM
agreed. another thing is a coach/team can look to help guys get going who may be struggling but have proven they can hit
Josh has proven to have an excellent stroke but has been off a bit and not just one game with his shot; I give some credit to the D, SMC played him very well I thought for example, and also attribute it to his apparent focus on not turning it over, and wonder/hope he can put them both together. and now maybe some shoulder thing I wasn't even aware of. We'll see

maybe a little bit of the shoulder, a little bit of the focus on no turnovers, and just a little bit of a plain old shooting slump...but at the same time, what i am also seeing is that teams are forcing perkins to shoot deeper and deeper threes because they don't have to worry about the drive and have learned to crowd him with little consequence.

peg645
02-02-2018, 03:47 PM
It is very hard to completely put Last Year's Team out of my mind while watching this version. Every night someone(s) isn't giving 100% - or at least appearing not to do so. I sure hope that Tillie and Rui aren't making plans for their pro careers to start next year....I really wish it would be illegal for commentators to ever say "he'll be playing for pay next year" or any version of it.

Hoopaholic
02-02-2018, 04:01 PM
i'll agree with most of this, with one caveat...declining shot attempts when the competition level goes up can also be a sign of an inability to get your shot off against better comp, which i think applies to perkins. nwg could create his own shot against the best, not so much perkins, who has to depend on the system to get him looks.

Or an indicator opposing team is taking that part of the game away with schemes and plans?

Vanzagger
02-02-2018, 04:22 PM
There is one poster I can think of who has consistently given our guards the credit they deserve the last 3 years.

Thatís a lot of post season wins.

bballbeachbum
02-02-2018, 08:29 PM
maybe a little bit of the shoulder, a little bit of the focus on no turnovers, and just a little bit of a plain old shooting slump...but at the same time, what i am also seeing is that teams are forcing perkins to shoot deeper and deeper threes because they don't have to worry about the drive and have learned to crowd him with little consequence.

hey WallaWalla, yep, teams have shown how they want to play him; he took advantage of that late yesterday I thought, not his strength finishing inside but he sacked up down the stretch after struggling from the floor for the game to cash one in
on Josh's shooting, am more inclined towards technical, physical, emotional, tactical, strategic variables that may affect, in no particular order, just like what you described on how team's are playing him defensively, for example.

maynard g krebs
02-02-2018, 10:36 PM
i'll agree with most of this, with one caveat...declining shot attempts when the competition level goes up can also be a sign of an inability to get your shot off against better comp, which i think applies to perkins. nwg could create his own shot against the best, not so much perkins, who has to depend on the system to get him looks.

Keep in mind that I was responding to Ezag's "Unlikely Josh gets hot v good competition....."

The problem with your caveat is that, in 6 games this season v power 5 + Big East (tOSU, Fla, Tex, UW, Creighton, Nova; mostly tourney teams and all listed in bracketology at some point) Josh is 25/55 from the field incl 18/36 on 3's. Against those 6 teams, he averaged 14.7 ppg w/ an effective fg% of 62%. Both slightly better than his season averages.

While it's true that he gets most of his shots in the flow of the offense, as pg he's largely responsible for creating that flow. And he's mostly a 3 pt shooter, but has no trouble getting those off, averaging 6 3pt attempts v top teams. Deep range, quick release.

But the point is that playing alongside NWG really limited his opportunities, as NWG dominated the ball and the shot opportunities. As the above paragraph proves, Josh's declining shot opportunities were a result of playing along with NWG's ball dominance (and the fact that in the tourney his fg attempts went up from 10.9 in the first 32 games to 15.7). A bit like Raivio playing alongside Adam; with Adam gone his scoring went up from 11 to 18. And Josh was passing up shots, as he wasn't getting enough opportunities between NWG and the concerted attempts to feed the bigs to feel in rhythm imo.

Reborn
02-03-2018, 06:10 AM
Keep in mind that I was responding to Ezag's "Unlikely Josh gets hot v good competition....."

The problem with your caveat is that, in 6 games this season v power 5 + Big East (tOSU, Fla, Tex, UW, Creighton, Nova; mostly tourney teams and all listed in bracketology at some point) Josh is 25/55 from the field incl 18/36 on 3's. Against those 6 teams, he averaged 14.7 ppg w/ an effective fg% of 62%. Both slightly better than his season averages.

While it's true that he gets most of his shots in the flow of the offense, as pg he's largely responsible for creating that flow. And he's mostly a 3 pt shooter, but has no trouble getting those off, averaging 6 3pt attempts v top teams. Deep range, quick release.

But the point is that playing alongside NWG really limited his opportunities, as NWG dominated the ball and the shot opportunities. As the above paragraph proves, Josh's declining shot opportunities were a result of playing along with NWG's ball dominance (and the fact that in the tourney his fg attempts went up from 10.9 in the first 32 games to 15.7). A bit like Raivio playing alongside Adam; with Adam gone his scoring went up from 11 to 18. And Josh was passing up shots, as he wasn't getting enough opportunities between NWG and the concerted attempts to feed the bigs to feel in rhythm imo.

Maynard, thanks for your analyses of Josh, and the time you've put in to back up your opinion. My problem with Josh is that in the biggest games this year, and our losses, Josh has shot poorly, and for some really poorly. And his poor shooting certainly was a big part of the reason why we had the loss. For example: Against St Mary's Josh made 1-9 threes, and scored 6 points. Against San Diego he was 1-7 from behind the 3 point line and scored 5 points. Against Villanova he was 1-7 from behind the 3 point line and 4-12 for the game. He did make 7-8 from the foul line giving him 16 points, but once again his shooting was poor. The game against Florida was about the same. So that's my concern. How he has played against the better teams THIS YEAR. And especially, how he has played in our losses. IMO Leaders lead, and mostly they lead by their actions.

Go Zags!!!

Bogozags
02-03-2018, 07:20 AM
Maynard, thanks for your analyses of Josh, and the time you've put in to back up your opinion. My problem with Josh is that in the biggest games this year, and our losses, Josh has shot poorly, and for some really poorly. And his poor shooting certainly was a big part of the reason why we had the loss. For example: Against St Mary's Josh made 1-9 threes, and scored 6 points. Against San Diego he was 1-7 from behind the 3 point line and scored 5 points. Against Villanova he was 1-7 from behind the 3 point line and 4-12 for the game. He did make 7-8 from the foul line giving him 16 points, but once again his shooting was poor. The game against Florida was about the same. So that's my concern. How he has played against the better teams THIS YEAR. And especially, how he has played in our losses. IMO Leaders lead, and mostly they lead by their actions.

Go Zags!!!

Maynard has made several good points and I also feel that his ďlearningĒ his position and this is his first year leading ďhisĒ team. As I said earlier he has had some poor shooting games but he has remained pretty constant with his play this season. In fact he has improved upon his statistics from last season and will continue to improve through this season. I see where we lost four games and his pay was not at the NWG level of play but the UF game was not his to win or lose...we had a chance to win in Regulation but didnít execute. Against Villanova, I donít see how we win that game even if he made five threes...we were never in that game mentally. SDSUís game was a horribly played game...our defence lost that game not Joshís TOS...we had so many opportunities to win and it was just not meant to be...SMC, again we couldnít stop Landaleís play inside, because our defence just wasnít up to snuff...sure Josh didnít shoot well but I can go back and point fingers at others on that team for not executing...

Is there anything anyone can say or do to make Josh play at a higher level than his at present? In his junior year, I am sure you remember how Pangos played well at home but on the road he couldnít make shots...As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, Josh is pretty consistent this year and his stats prove that but sure there is room for improvement in his game as well as all the players on this yearís team...

Reborn
02-03-2018, 07:28 AM
Are you kidding? You don't think that shooting 1-9 from the 3 point line against St Mary's had something to do with that loss? Or shooting 1-7 from the same spot against San Diego St. was a good reason we lost that game. If he makes one more 3 point shot against SDSU we win. If he makes 2 more against St Mary's we win. If he makes one more against Florida we win. THAT'S THE TRUTH.

I like Josh and really hope he begins to play the way he's capable of. So far, imo, he hasn't. Stars play their best games against the best teams. Why? Because they are confident. Josh has not shown me he has that quality.

Sorry!

MileHigh
02-03-2018, 07:52 AM
Maynard, thanks for your analyses of Josh, and the time you've put in to back up your opinion. My problem with Josh is that in the biggest games this year, and our losses, Josh has shot poorly, and for some really poorly. And his poor shooting certainly was a big part of the reason why we had the loss. For example: Against St Mary's Josh made 1-9 threes, and scored 6 points. Against San Diego he was 1-7 from behind the 3 point line and scored 5 points. Against Villanova he was 1-7 from behind the 3 point line and 4-12 for the game. He did make 7-8 from the foul line giving him 16 points, but once again his shooting was poor. The game against Florida was about the same. So that's my concern. How he has played against the better teams THIS YEAR. And especially, how he has played in our losses. IMO Leaders lead, and mostly they lead by their actions.

Go Zags!!!

Numbers just dont support your theory about him shooting bad from three point range against the best teams. Using RPI, this is how he has shot the ball against the teams that have RPI's better than the Zags. Ranked by CBS RPI ranking:

1. Nova 1-7 16 pt
2. OhSt 6-9 20 pt
3. Creighton 0-2 5pt
4. Texas 5-7 16pt
5. St Mary 1-6 6pt
6. Fla 3-7 17pt
7. Wash 3-4 14 pts

Total 19-42 45% (compared to overall for the season 43%)

His shooting against the best teams is really no different than his shooting against the other teams, the only big difference being that the Zags can withstand Josh shooting poorly against the bad teams. Against the good teams if Josh is off the mark Zags are likely to lose

ZagzKrak
02-03-2018, 08:05 AM
I would bet nearly half his misses are from receiving the ball very late in the shot clock and having to toss up a prayer. I can't recall which game it was, but I saw JW3 do it to him 4-5 times in that game alone. A lot of our guys need to learn to make quicker decisions with the ball.

Zags11
02-03-2018, 08:52 AM
I would bet nearly half his misses are from receiving the ball very late in the shot clock and having to toss up a prayer. I can't recall which game it was, but I saw JW3 do it to him 4-5 times in that game alone. A lot of our guys need to learn to make quicker decisions with the ball.

This. At the smc game he got the ball with 4 seconds or less from super deep and had to fire. I think 3-4 times.

Zags11
02-03-2018, 08:53 AM
Numbers just dont support your theory about him shooting bad from three point range against the best teams. Using RPI, this is how he has shot the ball against the teams that have RPI's better than the Zags. Ranked by CBS RPI ranking:

1. Nova 1-7 16 pt
2. OhSt 6-9 20 pt
3. Creighton 0-2 5pt
4. Texas 5-7 16pt
5. St Mary 1-6 6pt
6. Fla 3-7 17pt
7. Wash 3-4 14 pts

Total 19-42 45% (compared to overall for the season 43%)

His shooting against the best teams is really no different than his shooting against the other teams, the only big difference being that the Zags can withstand Josh shooting poorly against the bad teams. Against the good teams if Josh is off the mark Zags are likely to lose

This post to a T.

gueastcoast
02-03-2018, 09:16 AM
Am I misremembering or didn't Josh have a 13-pt first half in the National Championship game? Whatever his issues are or aren't, I'm not convinced (as per MileHigh's analysis above) it's a level of competition thing.

Reborn
02-03-2018, 09:48 AM
Am I misremembering or didn't Josh have a 13-pt first half in the National Championship game? Whatever his issues are or aren't, I'm not convinced (as per MileHigh's analysis above) it's a level of competition thing.

We'll find out tonight.

maynard g krebs
02-03-2018, 06:01 PM
Maynard, thanks for your analyses of Josh, and the time you've put in to back up your opinion. My problem with Josh is that in the biggest games this year, and our losses, Josh has shot poorly, and for some really poorly. And his poor shooting certainly was a big part of the reason why we had the loss. For example: Against St Mary's Josh made 1-9 threes, and scored 6 points. Against San Diego he was 1-7 from behind the 3 point line and scored 5 points. Against Villanova he was 1-7 from behind the 3 point line and 4-12 for the game. He did make 7-8 from the foul line giving him 16 points, but once again his shooting was poor. The game against Florida was about the same. So that's my concern. How he has played against the better teams THIS YEAR. And especially, how he has played in our losses. IMO Leaders lead, and mostly they lead by their actions.

Go Zags!!!

No offense intended, but didn't you notice what you were responding to? Once again- in 6 games against teams from the top 6 conferences- arguably the biggest games of the year nationally, w/ only SMC , Josh averaged 14.7 w/ an effective fg% of 62%. Of course he's had some off games. Everybody does, and you can cherry pick those if you want. But he's been better than his season average in the biggest games nationally, which is what I was pointing out in my response to ezag.