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Once and Future Zag
01-24-2018, 12:06 PM
Does MSU bear more, less, or about the same responsibility for Larry Nasser than Penn State does for Jerry Sandusky.

Discuss.

northsidezagfan
01-24-2018, 04:25 PM
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/22203758/michigan-state-university-president-lou-anna-simon-expected-resign-week

Looks like quite a bit...

Once and Future Zag
01-24-2018, 06:02 PM
Short version, I think MSU as a school / institution / business / etc is culpable, and should receive an 18 month NCAA "coma-sentence" for all NCAA sports - given that Nasser was employed by the athletics department, and it was their responsibility to ensure their athletes were protected. They knew for 18 months before taking action, they should be shut down for an equal amount.

I feel sorry for Izzo (if I had to pick one of the most stand-up coaches in any sport, he would be near the top), but if he takes a paycheck from MSU, he needs to be held responsible as well.

If GU harbored a molester knowingly for 18 months, I would call for no less.

former1dog
01-25-2018, 12:37 PM
Short version, I think MSU as a school / institution / business / etc is culpable, and should receive an 18 month NCAA "coma-sentence" for all NCAA sports - given that Nasser was employed by the athletics department, and it was their responsibility to ensure their athletes were protected. They knew for 18 months before taking action, they should be shut down for an equal amount.

I feel sorry for Izzo (if I had to pick one of the most stand-up coaches in any sport, he would be near the top), but if he takes a paycheck from MSU, he needs to be held responsible as well.

If GU harbored a molester knowingly for 18 months, I would call for no less.

Although I agree that some punishment should be made to MSU, I think it should only affect those with direct knowledge and influence on the situation.

It is highly doubtful that any student athlete had anything to do with the crimes of Larry Nasser or looking the other way regarding those crimes. Student athletes should not be punished for the crimes of Nasser or the administrators that did their jobs so poorly.

God bless and heal the victims of this real life monster.

kitzbuel
01-25-2018, 02:48 PM
I also am not in favor of group punishment. Ferret out those responsible and make them face the proper consequences.

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Once and Future Zag
01-25-2018, 08:43 PM
I also am not in favor of group punishment. Ferret out those responsible and make them face the proper consequences.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Only scorched earth punishment seems to make institutions take things seriously. Sure it would be unfair to MSU and its current student athletes., but if it prevents another institution for knowingly keeping a kiddy-fiddler on payroll for even a single day? WORTH IT - IMO at least.

Once and Future Zag
01-25-2018, 08:47 PM
Although I agree that some punishment should be made to MSU, I think it should only affect those with direct knowledge and influence on the situation.

It is highly doubtful that any student athlete had anything to do with the crimes of Larry Nasser or looking the other way regarding those crimes. Student athletes should not be punished for the crimes of Nasser or the administrators that did their jobs so poorly.

God bless and heal the victims of this real life monster.

IF MSU glides, what will prevent the next institution from hiding/concealing a molester (or some other sort of moral monster) in their ranks if he "adds value" to their brand in the short term?

kitzbuel
01-26-2018, 10:03 AM
Only scorched earth punishment seems to make institutions take things seriously. Sure it would be unfair to MSU and its current student athletes., but if it prevents another institution for knowingly keeping a kiddy-fiddler on payroll for even a single day? WORTH IT - IMO at least.Not prosecuting those responsible makes institutions think they can get away with it.

I guarantee when more folks start facing 120 year sentences, others will start keeping tabs on things a hell of a lot better.

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Once and Future Zag
01-26-2018, 12:00 PM
Not prosecuting those responsible makes institutions think they can get away with it.

I guarantee when more folks start facing 120 year sentences, others will start keeping tabs on things a hell of a lot better.

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Oh it's not either/or. Prosecute the individuals legally, but the NCAA needs to also step in to make sure that any schools will think twice before sweeping things under the rug.

There needs to be accountability at all levels, and because institutions can't be put in a literal prison, they need to be hit in ways that the entire institutional community will feel.

webspinnre
01-26-2018, 02:59 PM
I don't agree with giving an entire athletic program a suspension, unless it can be shown that the other specific sports programs had knowledge of this and also covered it up. What did the baseball coach/players have to do with this? By all means though, hit every member who knew of this with a suspension and show-cause penalty, fine the university itself whatever amount is deemed appropriate, and I'm perfectly good with giving their gymnastics program the death penalty, with free transfers out to all affected athletes.

Once and Future Zag
01-26-2018, 04:47 PM
I don't agree with giving an entire athletic program a suspension, unless it can be shown that the other specific sports programs had knowledge of this and also covered it up. What did the baseball coach/players have to do with this? By all means though, hit every member who knew of this with a suspension and show-cause penalty, fine the university itself whatever amount is deemed appropriate, and I'm perfectly good with giving their gymnastics program the death penalty, with free transfers out to all affected athletes.

If the AD was involved, the entire athletic program was involved.

I'd be fine with giving every athlete redshirt-free transfers if there was a short term death penalty.

webspinnre
01-27-2018, 09:44 AM
Are the football and basketball and baseball and track teams responsible for the actions of the AD?

On the other hand, there are now accusations about the basketball and football teams and handling of similar issues. If these turn out to be true as well, then by all means, shut them down as well.

Once and Future Zag
01-27-2018, 12:25 PM
Are the football and basketball and baseball and track teams responsible for the actions of the AD?

On the other hand, there are now accusations about the basketball and football teams and handling of similar issues. If these turn out to be true as well, then by all means, shut them down as well.

They aren't responsible, but that isn't relevant to making sure that this doesn't happen again. If you're a burger flipper and the restaurant goes out of business because your boss was embezzling, that doesn't mean you're still entitled to a paycheck.

The MSU athletic department failed, up to the AD and School president. The MSU athletic department needs a time out to get their stuff in order. If the AD didn't want to drag the track and baseball teams into the mess, they shouldn't have covered up rapes for years.

MSU athletics need to be shut down. Otherwise the message is that MSU (or any future school) can just throw individuals under the bus without actually making real changes.

I'm not sure why people are resistant to actually punishing an institution that harbored a molester, and covered up rapes for decades.

ETA: From Deadspin:

Sept. 20, 2017: Lou Anna Simon meets with Betsy DeVos. You can even see a picture here of them chatting.
Sept. 22, 2017: Obama-era Title IX guidance is withdrawn
Oct. 10, 2017: Michigan State asks to have federal monitoring ended

MSU also received more than $10 Million from the DeVos family for a new building.