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former1dog
01-19-2018, 09:06 AM
For the life of me, I can't figure out why Larsen isn't getting playing time. To my eye, he plays heady, smart basketball every time he gets on the court.

I know he's not the scoring threat that Williams is. That said he's a much better passer and he doesn't turn the ball over like Williams does.

I don't think its an either/or situation though. I think Larsen and Williams together is the best combination, especially considering the inconsistencies of Killian Tillie this season.

Somebody educate me. Why is the Mark Few leash so tight on Jacob Larsen?

hooter73
01-19-2018, 09:19 AM
Shhh, dont wake the sheep.








Makes zero since to me either but I'm no coach so who knows.

ZagzKrak
01-19-2018, 09:35 AM
I'm certainly no expert but if I was to guess I would say the combination of being a Freshman and coming back from the knee surgery. Knee surgeries like those usually take 2 full years to get totally get back...First year your still strengthening it and learning to trust it again then second year your hopefully all the way back. Wish we could see him more though so JW3 could play his natural position at the 4.

Zagceo
01-19-2018, 09:39 AM
gotta be the knee

former1dog
01-19-2018, 09:42 AM
gotta be the knee

Well, that does make sense on a lot of levels. First, we have heard nothing about it, which fits with Few's MO.

Perhaps soreness that doesn't inhibit his movement on the court but encourages the trainers and advising physicians to recommend limited minutes?

VinnyZag
01-19-2018, 09:57 AM
I'm also curious about this, and also no expert. My presumption has been that there is something he's bad at or not doing right on the defensive end. Because, just on size and bulk alone, I'd have thought he would be a better matchup against Landale.

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-19-2018, 10:07 AM
Whenever a thread is titled, ďExperts.. ď I feel obliged to respond :-)

Similar to the other expertsí comments, I can only assume itís a premeditated decision by coaches / medical staff to limit Larsenís minutes this year. His play to date certainly deserves more minutes. When he is on the court, his teammates donít look for him enough either imho.

TexasZagFan
01-19-2018, 10:09 AM
Whenever a thread is titled, “Experts.. “ I feel obliged to respond :-)

Similar to the other experts’ comments, I can only assume it’s a premeditated decision by coaches / medical staff to limit Larsen’s minutes this year.

Makes sense.

Zags11
01-19-2018, 10:39 AM
One star thread!

Stay consistent GU board.

former1dog
01-19-2018, 10:58 AM
One star thread!

Stay consistent GU board.

Meh... Someone's got a hobby. Makes them happy. God Bless them.

sittingon50
01-19-2018, 11:54 AM
Whenever a thread is titled, “Experts.. “ I feel obliged to respond :-.


Thanks Flex; not a whole lotta' laughs from the "general public" today!!

:lmao:

ZagnetitForce
01-19-2018, 04:49 PM
Whenever a thread is titled, “Experts.. “ I feel obliged to respond :-)

Similar to the other experts’ comments, I can only assume it’s a premeditated decision by coaches / medical staff to limit Larsen’s minutes this year. His play to date certainly deserves more minutes. When he is on the court, his teammates don’t look for him enough either imho.

He played big minutes against Nova though.

MDABE80
01-19-2018, 05:17 PM
gotta be the knee
This.

Once and Future Zag
01-19-2018, 05:52 PM
Shhh, dont wake the sheep.








Makes zero since to me either but I'm no coach so who knows.

There's your answer - from one of the GUBoard sheep.

WallaWallaZag
01-19-2018, 07:41 PM
Similar to the other experts’ comments, I can only assume it’s a premeditated decision by coaches / medical staff to limit Larsen’s minutes this year. His play to date certainly deserves more minutes. When he is on the court, his teammates don’t look for him enough either imho.

he simply can't score in the post right now unless he has at least 4 inches and 40 pounds on his defender...just look at the one shot he took against smc...it was wild and had no chance.
he's fine with everything else, but i don't think he's ready to deal with the naar/landale combo on defense either.

VinnyZag
01-19-2018, 08:44 PM
Keith Ybanez at Slipper Still Fits made an interesting observation in his recap of the SMC loss (https://www.slipperstillfits.com/2018/1/19/16910802/10-observations-from-gonzagas-loss-to-saint-marys):


Larsen struggled defending some of SMC’s screen-and-roll actions and gave up a pair of easy baskets during his brief time on the floor and he was given the quick hook from Mark Few.

So, yeah. The problem seems to be on defense, not offense.

75Zag
01-19-2018, 08:55 PM
Larsen has looked a step slow on defense since the Florida game. Love his enthusiasm, attitude and approach to the game, but against elite offensive players I think he will get burned repeatedly unless he can redeem himself by making blocks from behind as the quicker offensive players blow by him on their way to the hoop or if he can get defensive rebounds on missed shots. The jury is still out in my opinion. Is he going to be required to wear the knee brace things for the remainder of his college career?

Go Bulldogs!

Murphy outgo lifer
01-19-2018, 09:03 PM
Keith Ybanez at Slipper Still Fits made an interesting observation in his recap of the SMC loss (https://www.slipperstillfits.com/2018/1/19/16910802/10-observations-from-gonzagas-loss-to-saint-marys):



So, yeah. The problem seems to be on defense, not offense.

I think this is the reason as well. I don't think it has very much to do with the knee in terms of limiting playing time because in blow outs he has been playing 20 minutes a game.

I don't think he is ready to guard Jock Landale either but to be honest there are not many bigs in the country that can contain him; Karnowski had his hands full with him last year and he was a 5th year senior. The one thing I have noticed too is that Larsen struggles with guarding guards when they switch on the perimeter however, I don't think too many centers really excel at that. He does a good job hedging and recovering on penetrations off of screen and rolls, however, when they screen and switch and he is left guarding a PG or SG their speed overwhelms him.

I am not sure what the solution to this is. Does anyone have any thoughts? I know St. Mary's in particular use to do this to Wiltjer all the time but I am not sure if we had a solution. Wiltjer's offense kept him on the floor but Larsen just doesn't have that aspect to his game yet and it is easier just to pull him at the moment.

zagfan1
01-19-2018, 09:42 PM
Tillie needs to be able to guard Landale. On a side note, did anyone notice Melson logged 37 minutes? That seems too much considering he only scored 8 points and only had one assist. Perkins needs to do better than six points for his 34 minutes. Rui is incredible.

ZagHouse
01-19-2018, 09:54 PM
These are great observations particularly the one about the struggles on defense. It’s a good thing we have J3 to do the heavy lifting. �� . You can’t wish Jock away, as we probably see him twice more. You can’t guard him the same way and hope for a different outcome. It may mean replicating last year’s scheme with Larsen and J3 on the court at the same time. The only way Larsen can learn is minutes on the floor. It’s a disservice to him and the team to not utilize his size and skills. He has shown the ability to adapt in-game. Use him. If it’s his knee, then nevermind, but Jones should have seen the floor more the other night as well onsidering how easily Hermansen got into the lane, and the coaches chose to go with the starters + Rui.

amaronizag
01-20-2018, 07:02 AM
I agree that Larson gets lost on defense against higher end talent so a zone might work better with Larson in the game?? The St. Mary's offense has great spacing and great outside shooters, but a zone can still be effective if played well. Could have tried it??

gonzagafan62
01-20-2018, 08:03 AM
Title says it all... are both injured slightly still?

Zags11
01-20-2018, 08:48 AM
1 star thread!


Stay consistent GU board

kitzbuel
01-20-2018, 09:12 AM
1 star thread!


Stay consistent GU boardYou do know that you can also give stars.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

bballbeachbum
01-20-2018, 04:02 PM
when Few changed his rotation with the early minutes to Larsen I wondered if he'd been saving him for this matchup, if it was a harbinger of more responsibility for him, but not to be. as we've been specualting all season something's got to be up with the knee. we'll see

Few's strategy to deny Landale and front him in the post with JIII worked for much of the night until he tired as the game and that physical battle wore on. Larsen could have been a nice counter for JIII in there it seemed based on the 4 minutes Larsen got

I thought JIII was player of the game until Larsen began getting all those touches right where he wanted them. Efficient as heck from his spots once with the ball. Few's strategy seemed to be working well, but the lack of depth of minutes to check Landale seemed to get exposed

Tmac5360
01-20-2018, 04:45 PM
He has played 3 minutes in the past 2 games and given up 5 lay ins. He’s not hurt, he isn’t good. He will get there but right now he is awful on D. Not bad AWFUL. It’s not little league. He will play more when he plays better.

bballbeachbum
01-20-2018, 04:59 PM
He has played 3 minutes in the past 2 games and given up 5 lay ins. He’s not hurt, he isn’t good. He will get there but right now he is awful on D. Not bad AWFUL. It’s not little league. He will play more when he plays better.

did you think his minutes last night were poor?

Tmac5360
01-20-2018, 05:00 PM
Nope. He is getting what he has earned. I just think it’s interesting how everyone is trying to figure out what’s wrong. He is just not that good.

bballbeachbum
01-20-2018, 05:09 PM
Nope. He is getting what he has earned. I just think it’s interesting how everyone is trying to figure out what’s wrong. He is just not that good.

right on. serioulsy, I'm wondering why JIII was left to wilt last night after kicking butt on that matchup with Landale up until he looked exhausted and weakened down the stretch

Zagceo
01-20-2018, 05:23 PM
Nope. He is getting what he has earned. I just think itís interesting how everyone is trying to figure out whatís wrong. He is just not that good.

looked better than good against Nova..in 24 min of play

spike_jr
01-20-2018, 05:51 PM
did you think his minutes last night were poor?

I thought he looked a little lost, but SMC thrives on that. They play such a disciplined game that is designed to take advantage of your mistakes and what you give them (he looked awful trying to defend the pick and roll). IMO and from what I've seen, Jacob just isn't ready

GoZags
01-20-2018, 05:58 PM
He’s not hurt, he isn’t good..

The first part of your quoted statement is cluelessly incorrect.

I do agree that Jacob hasn't been very effective since reinjuring his knee in the UW game. Just like Kispert hasn't been as effective since the ankle injury. Unless it's your position that Corey isn't any good either.

Tmac5360
01-20-2018, 06:11 PM
Fair enough. I shouldn’t have said he is not hurt. I have no inside knowledge about that. If he is hurt, that is unfortunate. However he doesn’t look limited, he looks lost. Again if he is legitimately hurt then I stand corrected.

bballbeachbum
01-20-2018, 06:20 PM
I thought he looked a little lost, but SMC thrives on that. They play such a disciplined game that is designed to take advantage of your mistakes and what you give them (he looked awful trying to defend the pick and roll). IMO and from what I've seen, Jacob just isn't ready

agree on SMC, and also that Jacob wasn't great.

GoZags
01-20-2018, 06:32 PM
Fair enough. I shouldn’t have said he is not hurt. I have no inside knowledge about that. If he is hurt, that is unfortunate. However he doesn’t look limited, he looks lost. Again if he is legitimately hurt then I stand corrected.

FWIW here's the post game thread from the game before he reinjured the knee. There were probably half a dozen guboards members stating Larsen should be starting. There haven't been too many of those types of posts since. http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?61614-Gonzaga-vs-Villanova-postgame-thoughts-analysis&p=1343374#post1343374

I'm hopeful that both Jacob and Corey will re-capture some of their early season form/swagger ... and be back to their early season form by the tail end of league (and for the post season).

Tmac5360
01-20-2018, 06:52 PM
I am with you 100%. Both have really struggled. If both could bring it in the post season the Zags are a very different team.

CDC84
01-21-2018, 12:11 PM
I think Few prefers the defensive versatility that JWIII and Tillie bring. Larsen is more of traditional back to the basket center. There are not many true centers in the WCC. I mean, I realize that Karno was a true back to the basket center, but GU had different personnel last season, and Karno was way more developed and experienced.

Also, just like with Kispert and Wade, I am not close to 100% certain that Larsen is fully healthy. I really worry about his leg and his inability to trust it.

Still, once a lead gets to 20 points or so, I am also surprised that the staff aren't giving him much run. But again, there could be concerns about the knee that we don't know about.

CDC84
01-21-2018, 08:22 PM
The first part of your quoted statement is cluelessly incorrect.

I do agree that Jacob hasn't been very effective since reinjuring his knee in the UW game. Just like Kispert hasn't been as effective since the ankle injury. Unless it's your position that Corey isn't any good either.

It is clear that both of these players were more confident and aggressive pre-injury. There was a lot of media praise heaped upon Larsen at PK80.....that he was the next great Gonzaga overseas "find."

I actually feel bad for Jacob, and I feel the fan base should as well. Because GU had so many bigs last season, Larsen would have probably redshirted no matter what. He would have had an opportunity to reshape his body and work on all areas of his game. Instead, he got stuck with an entire season of injury rehab that involved almost zero basketball. He would be so much further along now had he been able to take a true redshirt. Nonetheless, he still performed pretty well at PK against high major players. It's way, way too early to write him off. And we must always remember what the greatest basketball minds have always told us: that in college basketball, big men, generally speaking, take longer to develop than guards and wings.

Bulldoginseattle
01-21-2018, 11:38 PM
The first part of your quoted statement is cluelessly incorrect.

I do agree that Jacob hasn't been very effective since reinjuring his knee in the UW game. Just like Kispert hasn't been as effective since the ankle injury. Unless it's your position that Corey isn't any good either.

Is his knee reinjured? I thought he just knocked knees w the UW player, but nothing more serious than that.

Zagger
01-22-2018, 06:04 AM
I don't believe I've seen Larsen without the knee brace. I haven't watched Jacob that closely on the floor to notice any limitations than can be attributed to the knee/brace but 'common sense' would lead one to believe it's got to have some negative effects on mobility and quickness. What I have noticed in Jacob's play is that he can get beat on defense. However, it seems a bit of a Catch 22 in that with more game time Larsen improves - he's just not getting much game time - limiting his ability to improve at a faster pace. With both Williams and Tillie being pretty darn good BB players, GU relying more on 3 point shooting this season and 'the Rui factor' I sure don't see Larsen's playing time improving.