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dhozagfan08
01-18-2018, 09:20 PM
Nwg or Collins? Go.

adoptedzag
01-18-2018, 09:21 PM
NWG easy

john montana
01-18-2018, 09:25 PM
Collins. A defensive anchor in the middle and a required double team on the block is a pretty good combo.

ZagOD7540
01-18-2018, 09:26 PM
NWG...flat out leader

Ezag
01-18-2018, 09:43 PM
NWG but we need a real big body in there so I'd take Ryan Edwards at this point!

Zagceo
01-18-2018, 09:45 PM
NWG

RenoZag
01-18-2018, 09:46 PM
Karnowski.

Zags11
01-18-2018, 09:54 PM
Karno. Karno dominated landale. Karno was the anchor for our 2nd place team.

I know ppl love NWG and I do too but he had a stacked team. I wish we could see but he left us a year early.

Zags11
01-18-2018, 09:55 PM
And karno stayed.

Mantua
01-18-2018, 10:30 PM
Collins. Length works.

scrooner
01-18-2018, 11:43 PM
Does Collins get 8 fouls?

cjm720
01-19-2018, 12:51 AM
NWG by far. Second choice should be Karno. I miss both.

CDC84
01-19-2018, 01:18 AM
Nigel by far. The number one weakness on this team is that it lacks an upperclassman who is a leader. Perkins, JWIII and Melson are too quiet to be leaders. Unless you have Carmelo (a transcendent talent), underclassmen generally are not ideal team leaders. The fact that Nigel was a great college player and an elite PG made him so incredibly valuable. His leadership made him incredibly special. Plus, having him at PG moves Perks to shooting guard (where he belongs as an elite shooter) and puts Melson on the bench (he's not a starting caliber guard on a top 25 team IMO).

dhozagfan08
01-19-2018, 06:05 AM
Options were nwg or Collins. Karnowski wasn't an option because his eligibility was gone. After our loss I was just thinking about what might have been.

Pleasant Peninsula
01-19-2018, 06:12 AM
NWG and it isn't close. His year last year was, objectively, the best season any Gonzaga player has had this century. And he fills the biggest hole this year's team has: leader, alpha guard, all around badass.

I really miss him.

rennis
01-19-2018, 07:04 AM
NWG by far. Second choice should be Karno. I miss both.

2nd

Ekrub
01-19-2018, 07:26 AM
Options were nwg or Collins. Karnowski wasn't an option because his eligibility was gone. After our loss I was just thinking about what might have been.

Speaking about what might have been... Sabonis would have eligibility this year as well.

katman50
01-19-2018, 08:08 AM
Time to move on. Water under the bridge.

ZagsObserver
01-19-2018, 08:11 AM
NWG. Easy.

Better pg option. Perkins slides to the 2, which also a much better option. Upgrades 2 positions.

MontanaCoyote
01-19-2018, 09:32 AM
And karno stayed.

That's right. You never miss your water till the well runs dry. Shem's gone, but without "a Shem" Zag's in trouble inside.

CBS Sports: " Without him the Zag's are not in Phoenix."

Zags11
01-19-2018, 09:42 AM
That's right. You never miss your water till the well runs dry. Shem's gone, but without "a Shem" Zag's in trouble inside.

CBS Sports: " Without him the Zag's are not in Phoenix."

This.

Zags11
01-19-2018, 09:44 AM
Also not to be rude but I'm going to come off rude.

I loved NWG. Dude left early for Europe. He could of came back. Collins? He could of too but was NBA.

I'm tired of talking on these two in sense of wish they were here. They left GU early on their own accord. They left for greener pastures in their eyes. Sabonis regretted it.

ZagzKrak
01-19-2018, 10:16 AM
Collins without a doubt...this team needs a true 5 and rim protector who Few would trust to play.....having those rim protectors just changes the way the guards can play D as we saw last year.

hooter73
01-19-2018, 10:22 AM
You can see my vote in my avatar. Collins was amazing, but he did only average like 11 minutes per game. Who knows what this year would have brought.

former1dog
01-19-2018, 10:37 AM
You really can't have either. Each has given up their eligibility to play professionally. Good luck to them in that and I do follow the Old Dogs forum.

Collectively, though, I think as Gonzaga fans we're better off supporting the team we've got rather than the one we wished we had, but will never get.

TexasZagFan
01-19-2018, 10:41 AM
You can see my vote in my avatar. Collins was amazing, but he did only average like 11 minutes per game. Who knows what this year would have brought.

Five personal fouls per game, for starters. He's racking them up at a record pace in the NBA.

Seriously, with Zach at the 5, we'd be top 5. J3 and KT would be at their natural positions, and you'd have Zach and Rui coming off the bench as a 1-2 scoring punch.

Still, I don't dwell on it. Nigel, Domas, and Zach left ahead of schedule to pursue their dreams. I thank them for the time they were here.

dhozagfan08
01-19-2018, 11:19 AM
Also not to be rude but I'm going to come off rude.

I loved NWG. Dude left early for Europe. He could of came back. Collins? He could of too but was NBA.

I'm tired of talking on these two in sense of wish they were here. They left GU early on their own accord. They left for greener pastures in their eyes. Sabonis regretted it.

I also don't want to be rude, but if you don't want to be apart of a hypothetical conversation, than don't. There is clearly differing views on the subject, which many of us find interesting. Let us have that conversation if we want.

soccerdud
01-19-2018, 11:21 AM
Sabonis regretted it.

do you have a source?

Zags11
01-19-2018, 11:41 AM
do you have a source?

Tommy at banquet. Said "sabonis wish he stayed one more year." Tommy also said sabonis said NBA isn't as fun as the culture at GU.

Zags11
01-19-2018, 11:41 AM
I also don't want to be rude, but if you don't want to be apart of a hypothetical conversation, than don't. There is clearly differing views on the subject, which many of us find interesting. Let us have that conversation if we want.

Its why ppl have issues with this squad. They want to live on last yrs team. I understand your point.

soccerdud
01-19-2018, 01:13 PM
Tommy at banquet. Said "sabonis wish he stayed one more year." Tommy also said sabonis said NBA isn't as fun as the culture at GU.

surprises me to hear that-- but that's quite a source. thanks.

it does seem like he's doing well with the pacers this season, wonder if finding a better fit and some success has changed his opinion since then.

hooter73
01-19-2018, 02:13 PM
Blake Griffin is the one I always remember that says he wished he hadn't have left college early.

Zags11
01-19-2018, 04:00 PM
surprises me to hear that-- but that's quite a source. thanks.

it does seem like he's doing well with the pacers this season, wonder if finding a better fit and some success has changed his opinion since then.

Yea idk. I was not really shocked. It seems gonzaga culture would be better then the NBA which is a business.

maynard g krebs
01-19-2018, 04:55 PM
Collins. Last night proved you need a defensive presence at center v an elite scoring center like JL. Collins would also give the ZAags a post scorer that demands a double, opening things up for shooters who had to take a bunch of bad 3's late in the clock last nite, as well as elite shot blocker/ intimidator.

NWG did great with the best stable of 4 bigs in CBB since the early entry era began, and all vets in the rotation. With this year's group of youngun's and no significant presence in the middle, I think you'd see him trying to put the team on his shoulders and upping his 16 shots per game (at 35% shooting) from the NCAA tourney to closer to 20, and you'd see results closer to those he achieved at UW.

"Leadership" is such an abstract concept to me as to be almost meaningless. Guys who know how to play don't need to be "led", imo. That's for sheep or cattle. Best teams I played on (at a low level, of course, in bb and soccer) it was " leadership by committee" for lack of a better term. I think SMC showed that last nite.

NWG might be able to carry the Zags to a few WCC wins- he might be able to dominate scoring v SMC's small guards- but as to making a difference at NCAA tourney time, it's Collins hands down.

soccerdud
01-19-2018, 09:40 PM
Collins. Last night proved you need a defensive presence at center v an elite scoring center like JL. Collins would also give the ZAags a post scorer that demands a double, opening things up for shooters who had to take a bunch of bad 3's late in the clock last nite, as well as elite shot blocker/ intimidator.

NWG did great with the best stable of 4 bigs in CBB since the early entry era began, and all vets in the rotation. With this year's group of youngun's and no significant presence in the middle, I think you'd see him trying to put the team on his shoulders and upping his 16 shots per game (at 35% shooting) from the NCAA tourney to closer to 20, and you'd see results closer to those he achieved at UW.

"Leadership" is such an abstract concept to me as to be almost meaningless. Guys who know how to play don't need to be "led", imo. That's for sheep or cattle. Best teams I played on (at a low level, of course, in bb and soccer) it was " leadership by committee" for lack of a better term. I think SMC showed that last nite.

NWG might be able to carry the Zags to a few WCC wins- he might be able to dominate scoring v SMC's small guards- but as to making a difference at NCAA tourney time, it's Collins hands down.

heckuva post, mgk. gotta say, i agree with all of this.

Zagger
01-20-2018, 07:00 AM
Karnowski.

I even have the beard this year for it :)

MileHigh
01-20-2018, 07:30 AM
Collins. Last night proved you need a defensive presence at center v an elite scoring center like JL. Collins would also give the ZAags a post scorer that demands a double, opening things up for shooters who had to take a bunch of bad 3's late in the clock last nite, as well as elite shot blocker/ intimidator.

NWG did great with the best stable of 4 bigs in CBB since the early entry era began, and all vets in the rotation. With this year's group of youngun's and no significant presence in the middle, I think you'd see him trying to put the team on his shoulders and upping his 16 shots per game (at 35% shooting) from the NCAA tourney to closer to 20, and you'd see results closer to those he achieved at UW.

"Leadership" is such an abstract concept to me as to be almost meaningless. Guys who know how to play don't need to be "led", imo. That's for sheep or cattle. Best teams I played on (at a low level, of course, in bb and soccer) it was " leadership by committee" for lack of a better term. I think SMC showed that last nite.

NWG might be able to carry the Zags to a few WCC wins- he might be able to dominate scoring v SMC's small guards- but as to making a difference at NCAA tourney time, it's Collins hands down.

When you here coaches talk about their need for "leaders" on the team, what they are often saying is that they need a player (or players) to really buy in to what they are coaching and they need that player (or players) to reinforce it to the rest of the team during practice and during games, either vocally or by example. If the leaders hold the teammates responsible it makes the coach's job easier, and if the players actually respect the leader it does make the team function better. The other side of the coin are the players that are considered leaders (either because they anoint themselves or the coach anoints them) but the other players don't respect them. In those situations these "leaders" actually hurt the function of the team.
At the end of the day the true leader, is the coach. If the players respect the coach and buy in to what his coaching, leadership from the players is not as important. The goal is to get 5 individuals to play hard and play as a team, and if they all buy into that the leadership goal has been achieved.

vandalzag
01-20-2018, 09:59 AM
If there can be only one I choose:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RqJh2zjMbMM/maxresdefault.jpg