PDA

View Full Version : Post game analysis Gonzaga vs USF



Reborn
01-13-2018, 08:19 PM
Gonzaga 75
USA 65

I was not impressed at all. 13 turnovers and 7 assists. That stat says it all to me. Jonathan going one on one all night long. Yeah he got his points. I thought he looked bad and especially on defense. I just don't like how he never passes when he's double teamed, Also on defense, His lack of switching on the screen and role left USF shooters open all night. USF makes 12-28 for 42%. This is so typical when Gonzaga does not play up to par.

The bench scores 13 points thanks to Mark Few. He played Kispert and Larsen very few minutes. Larsen looks really good, and we know what kispert can do. Few is a confidence breaker I think. This has been a great bench and to not play them more tonight is disgusting to me. And oh yeah he has to go with Jones.....who is absolutenly NO THREAT at all on offense. Sorry I didn't like the game at all. The defense imo was really pathetic.

Scoring: JW3 17, Perkins 16, Melson 14, Hachimura 19, Norvel 9, Tillie 6. I almost forgot, Tillie as is par for the course, looked like he didn't even care about playing tonight.

The good news is that GU almost never plays good in San Francisco.

Go Zags!!!

Hoopaholic
01-13-2018, 08:26 PM
Gonzaga 75
USA 65

I was not impressed at all. 13 turnovers and 7 assists. That stat says it all to me. Jonathan going one on one all night long. Yeah he got his points. I thought he looked bad and especially on defense. I just don't like how he never passes when he's double teamed, Also on defense, His lack of switching on the screen and role left USF shooters open all night. USF makes 12-28 for 42%. This is so typical when Gonzaga does not play up to par.

The bench scores 13 points thanks to Mark Few. He played Kispert and Larsen very few minutes. Larsen looks really good, and we know what kispert can do. Few is a confidence breaker I think. This has been a great bench and to not play them more tonight is disgusting to me. And oh yeah he has to go with Jones.....who is absolutenly NO THREAT at all on offense. Sorry I didn't like the game at all. The defense imo was really pathetic.

Scoring: JW3 17, Perkins 16, Melson 14, Hachimura 19, Norvel 9, Tillie 6. I almost forgot, Tillie as is par for the course, looked like he didn't even care about playing tonight.

The good news is that GU almost never plays good in San Francisco.

Go Zags!!!
We must have watched a different game...j3 switched and played very well on guards including blocking shots, altering shots

ZagNative
01-13-2018, 08:27 PM
Thanks, Reborn. I look forward to your post-game analysis, and this one was spot on.

bballbeachbum
01-13-2018, 08:48 PM
Zags went zone after the under 12 2nd half and got four straight stops, helped overcome the BS that was going down
Morrison was right, the refs get a D-
overcoming the jive was cool to see
Larsen struggled to play the Zags switching perimeter defensive scheme; that USF team is well coached, and Smith and company got the iso on Larsen with Ferrari and torched it
Smith also trapped the Zags when Josh was forced to the bench (with dubious foul calls), something I think the Zags can look forward to from here on out
how many of the Zag turnovers were offensive fouls, anyone know that stat or where to find it please?
thought it was a sweet win on the road in the horror house War Memorial with the road WCC Zag officials out in full force tonight

raise the zag
01-13-2018, 08:52 PM
maybe Coach Few is saving Larsen and planning to unleash him vs St Marys!

he rebounds everything. his defense is awesome vs dribble drive. arms up, great length, moves laterally pretty well, if not great for 7'. imagine if his knee was 100% healthy or trusted.

can't explain not playing him, b/c we will NEED him vs Landale next Thurs. Right?

Can 6'8" J3 guard him? Or lanky Tillie? Not unless they front him.

Larsen could be sneaky good vs Jock

jazzdelmar
01-13-2018, 08:56 PM
With ya Bornie. You hit all the high/low points. Lotta of gonna get mine out there, sheathed in ra-ra stuff. Two passes and up all night. Everybody, even Hach. Disappointing. Tillie musta joined French foreign legion; he’s disappeared.

CDC84
01-13-2018, 08:58 PM
I am still waiting for that dang Snickers Bar commercial with that guy in the hospital to air again. What the hell is up with that? That ad must have run 47 times during the GU/USF game tonight. You talk about overload. Do they really think we like candy bars that much? Gees.

bballbeachbum
01-13-2018, 08:59 PM
maybe Coach Few is saving Larsen and planning to unleash him vs St Marys!

he rebounds everything. his defense is awesome vs dribble drive. arms up, great length, moves laterally pretty well, if not great for 7'. imagine if his knee was 100% healthy or trusted.

can't explain not playing him, b/c we will NEED him vs Landale next Thurs. Right?

Can 6'8" J3 guard him? Or lanky Tillie? Not unless they front him.

Larsen could be sneaky good vs Jock

that would seem the matchup to get him some minutes if it was to happen. I just wonder about the knee's health
on Landale, hope to see no one else get off no matter who is guarding him and what he does Thursday

Zagricultural
01-13-2018, 09:28 PM
Gonzaga 75
USA 65

I was not impressed at all. 13 turnovers and 7 assists. That stat says it all to me. Jonathan going one on one all night long. Yeah he got his points. I thought he looked bad and especially on defense. I just don't like how he never passes when he's double teamed, Also on defense, His lack of switching on the screen and role left USF shooters open all night. USF makes 12-28 for 42%. This is so typical when Gonzaga does not play up to par.

The bench scores 13 points thanks to Mark Few. He played Kispert and Larsen very few minutes. Larsen looks really good, and we know what kispert can do. Few is a confidence breaker I think. This has been a great bench and to not play them more tonight is disgusting to me. And oh yeah he has to go with Jones.....who is absolutenly NO THREAT at all on offense. Sorry I didn't like the game at all. The defense imo was really pathetic.

Scoring: JW3 17, Perkins 16, Melson 14, Hachimura 19, Norvel 9, Tillie 6. I almost forgot, Tillie as is par for the course, looked like he didn't even care about playing tonight.

The good news is that GU almost never plays good in San Francisco.

Go Zags!!!

Correct. Especially regards the bench

bballbeachbum
01-13-2018, 09:57 PM
We must have watched a different game...j3 switched and played very well on guards including blocking shots, altering shots

went for a walk, what's up here?

JIII getting the wrath when he appeared to be told to go 1v1, him and Rui and Tillie, all of them, that's what the Zags went to, right? those matchups, that's what they wanted all night
Tillie got pulled at 16:50 first half and Rui in, and he went to work off the bounce 1v1 pronto. Zags had mad mismatches on those 1v1s

was that not the apparent offensive game plan for the Zags? if guys are going 1v1 because coach told them too, that's cool right?

Reborn, I disagree old friend

Go Zags!

VinnyZag
01-13-2018, 09:59 PM
I am still waiting for that dang Snickers Bar commercial with that guy in the hospital to air again. What the hell is up with that? That ad must have run 47 times during the GU/USF game tonight. You talk about overload. Do they really think we like candy bars that much? Gees.

Honestly, this is the best post in this thread by a long shot.

bballbeachbum
01-13-2018, 10:04 PM
Honestly, this is the best post in this thread by a long shot.

right on man

well, care to add to the discussion, make it interesting basketball talk man? I know you can, all those years on the game thread

jpn17
01-14-2018, 12:58 AM
Zags went zone after the under 12 2nd half and got four straight stops, helped overcome the BS that was going down
Morrison was right, the refs get a D-
overcoming the jive was cool to see
Larsen struggled to play the Zags switching perimeter defensive scheme; that USF team is well coached, and Smith and company got the iso on Larsen with Ferrari and torched it
Smith also trapped the Zags when Josh was forced to the bench (with dubious foul calls), something I think the Zags can look forward to from here on out
how many of the Zag turnovers were offensive fouls, anyone know that stat or where to find it please?
thought it was a sweet win on the road in the horror house War Memorial with the road WCC Zag officials out in full force tonight

Agreed about the refs, this was the first game this year that I've been annoyed over the officiating. They were embarrassing.

On the bright side the Zags have now won 6 straight in WMG.

Zags11
01-14-2018, 02:08 AM
It was a whatever game. The main thing is the zags won. I'm pretty pumped about the game Thursday.

Birddog
01-14-2018, 03:42 AM
Any word on the Snickers guy this morning? Has he been released?

GoZags
01-14-2018, 04:45 AM
Any word on the Snickers guy this morning? Has he been released?

Who?

(just kidding)

Zagger
01-14-2018, 04:52 AM
Any word on the Snickers guy this morning? Has he been released?

Snickers bars are my gasoline store #1 purchase. But, have being beaten over the head with one all game long .... think I'll have to go to Mars or Butter Finger next fillup ..... Then again, maybe Butter Finger could be bad MoJo. Mars might be better for deep 3 or 1/2 court shot MoJo. :)

I'm glad we came out of WMG with a win and didn't let the Dons get too close. The Dons sure shot themselves in the foot with free throws. The refs early on looked like they were going to allow a bit of contact - that didn't last! Glad the Zags and Few didn't let the zebras get them overly rattled. Of the usual suspects I'm liking how Melson is picking up his game and hoping Tillie follows suit. Although I spotted the Zags 9 more points in my game prediction I liked how GU shot (52.8% per ESPN's box score). I'm glad our first game with SMC is in the Kennel this season.

TexasZagFan
01-14-2018, 05:45 AM
I am still waiting for that dang Snickers Bar commercial with that guy in the hospital to air again. What the hell is up with that? That ad must have run 47 times during the GU/USF game tonight. You talk about overload. Do they really think we like candy bars that much? Gees.

Where’s Don Draper when you need him? The guy in charge of commercials must have spent his career in Hollywood working on the Fast and Furious franchise.

RenoZag
01-14-2018, 07:27 AM
Spokesman coverage of the USF game, includes links to audio clips with Few, Williams, Perkins, and Melson

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jan/13/analysis-gonzaga-holds-off-dons-to-set-up-showdown/#/0

TexasZagFan
01-14-2018, 07:52 AM
Vince noticed the Snickers commercials, too. :lmao:

MontanaCoyote
01-14-2018, 08:28 AM
Any word on the Snickers guy this morning? Has he been released?

Yes. Seen his attorney. Getting a divorce. His wife power slammed that phone right down his throat.

Birddog
01-14-2018, 10:33 AM
Snickers bars are my gasoline store #1 purchase. But, have being beaten over the head with one all game long .... think I'll have to go to Mars or Butter Finger next fillup ..... Then again, maybe Butter Finger could be bad MoJo. Mars might be better for deep 3 or 1/2 court shot MoJo. :)


Try Reese's Nutrageous, similar to and better than Snickers IMO. Also harder to find, though.

U Zig, I Zag
01-14-2018, 10:40 AM
Not going to win every game by 25. Not our best effort though. I noticed compared to a lot of teams our passing especially around the perimeter is slow/lazy. No urgency ever. Kispert does ok, but he’s a fundamentals guy.

Traveling seems to be a thing too. JW and Tillie shuffle, shuffle constantly. Not sure what that is about.

Hopefully a more precise game on Thurs.

Kiddwell
01-14-2018, 11:12 AM
(1) Not Zags best game, but they kept the lead, won by double digits.
(2) If Dons hit free throws, Zags are in trouble.
(3) Dons playing this year w/o injured Minlend (a WCC "all freshman" last year), and their young team has had some other injury issues. Yet Dons gave GU a game, which is what we want, right? Not conference blowout after conference blowout. Most importantly, Dons's coach looks like he's building a contender (when they're healthy). Kind of like what's happening at Pacific (which's playing, due to NCAA penalties on former coach, with only eight scholarship players, yet beating the likes of BYU, again).

(4) Ultimately Kiddwell hopes he saw last night evidence of WCC teams starting to elevate and push the Big Three. (There's a lot of youth in this league, remember.)

Finally, here's hoping USD, USF, and Pacific improve in the next two years, and start making life on the road regularly miserable for GU, SMC, and BYU. Hoping for the day the WCC regularly sends three teams to the NCAA Dance. (It's happened once.) FOUR TEAMS to the Dance would be awesome, and is this fan's stubborn hope. OK, one last thing: Hoping BYU starts playing up to their potential. With those facilities and their budget, they should be pushing for an NCAA Dance spot every single year.


:]

RenoZag
01-14-2018, 12:41 PM
OK, one last thing: Hoping BYU starts playing up to their potential. With those facilities and their budget, they should be pushing for an NCAA Dance spot every single year.

I'll join you in pulling for USF or USD to step up their efforts but I'll take a pass on wishing positive vibes for the Cougars. You might as well ask a life-long Seahawks fan to root for the Raiders .

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-14-2018, 01:02 PM
(1) Not Zags best game, but they kept the lead, won by double digits.
(2) If Dons hit free throws, Zags are in trouble.
(3) Dons playing this year w/o injured Minlend (a WCC "all freshman" last year), and their young team has had some other injury issues. Yet Dons gave GU a game, which is what we want, right? Not conference blowout after conference blowout. Most importantly, Dons's coach looks like he's building a contender (when they're healthy). Kind of like what's happening at Pacific (which's playing, due to NCAA penalties on former coach, with only eight scholarship players, yet beating the likes of BYU, again).

(4) Ultimately Kiddwell hopes he saw last night evidence of WCC teams starting to elevate and push the Big Three. (There's a lot of youth in this league, remember.)

Finally, here's hoping USD, USF, and Pacific improve in the next two years, and start making life on the road regularly miserable for GU, SMC, and BYU. Hoping for the day the WCC regularly sends three teams to the NCAA Dance. (It's happened once.) FOUR TEAMS to the Dance would be awesome, and is this fan's stubborn hope. OK, one last thing: Hoping BYU starts playing up to their potential. With those facilities and their budget, they should be pushing for an NCAA Dance spot every single year.


:]

USF impressed me as well last night, especially considering they were missing some key pieces. The announcers mentioned major renovations to the tune of 1 million + coming up for the Donsí facilities this offseason too. Good sign that program will definitely trend upwards. Then again, we are talking San Francisco prices so 1 million may just update the bathrooms. :-)

Not 100% sure of that number...anyone else recall the announcers mentioning that?

ZagzKrak
01-14-2018, 01:05 PM
I thought I heard the number as closer to 30 million.

jazzdelmar
01-14-2018, 01:16 PM
I thought I heard the number as closer to 30 million.

Million Dollar Listing San Francisco?

ZagsGoZags
01-14-2018, 01:45 PM
When I got on this thread I expected to see a lot of complaints about the lack of passing and assists. Lots of wings attempting the three right away even when they did not have a good shot. However, like someone said, maybe the coach was urging Rui, JWIII, and Josh to go one on one tonight. Just didn't look like the usual zag offense I am used to. I wanted team ball, not 'me' ball, but OK if that was Few's instructions. Even so, for my taste, I don't like the way Norvell, JWIII, and Rui do not pass out of double and triple teaming enough. Kind of reminds of Angel Nunez who decided from the outside he is going to the hoop, no matter what develops in front of him.

TexasZagFan
01-14-2018, 01:55 PM
When I got on this thread I expected to see a lot of complaints about the lack of passing and assists. Lots of wings attempting the three right away even when they did not have a good shot. However, like someone said, maybe the coach was urging Rui, JWIII, and Josh to go one on one tonight. Just didn't look like the usual zag offense I am used to. I wanted team ball, not 'me' ball, but OK if that was Few's instructions. Even so, for my taste, I don't like the way Norvell, JWIII, and Rui do not pass out of double and triple teaming enough. Kind of reminds of Angel Nunez who decided from the outside he is going to the hoop, no matter what develops in front of him.

Zach is probably second on the team in assists. He’s deferred on his shot taking the past few games. I thought J3 was a bit too stubborn last night when he got the ball. Don’t know about Rui, though.

RenoZag
01-14-2018, 03:42 PM
I thought I heard the number as closer to 30 million.


Million Dollar Listing San Francisco?

I thought I heard they were putting $30MM into the Sabrato Center too. . .

See this link for some additional info: http://usfdons.com/news/2016/6/29/facilities-sobrato-center-construction-update.aspx

Zagsker
01-14-2018, 03:59 PM
On a side note...have always loved the name of their (USF) gym

CDC84
01-14-2018, 05:43 PM
Will the revamp at USF be completed in time for the 2018/19 season, or will the Dons need to play somewhere else for a period?

RenoZag
01-15-2018, 07:32 AM
Will the revamp at USF be completed in time for the 2018/19 season, or will the Dons need to play somewhere else for a period?

Haven't been able to find anything on that, CDC

former1dog
01-15-2018, 09:26 AM
Gonzaga 75
USA 65

I was not impressed at all. 13 turnovers and 7 assists. That stat says it all to me. Jonathan going one on one all night long. Yeah he got his points. I thought he looked bad and especially on defense. I just don't like how he never passes when he's double teamed, Also on defense, His lack of switching on the screen and role left USF shooters open all night. USF makes 12-28 for 42%. This is so typical when Gonzaga does not play up to par.

The bench scores 13 points thanks to Mark Few. He played Kispert and Larsen very few minutes. Larsen looks really good, and we know what kispert can do. Few is a confidence breaker I think. This has been a great bench and to not play them more tonight is disgusting to me. And oh yeah he has to go with Jones.....who is absolutenly NO THREAT at all on offense. Sorry I didn't like the game at all. The defense imo was really pathetic.

Scoring: JW3 17, Perkins 16, Melson 14, Hachimura 19, Norvel 9, Tillie 6. I almost forgot, Tillie as is par for the course, looked like he didn't even care about playing tonight.

The good news is that GU almost never plays good in San Francisco.

Go Zags!!!

I agree, not Few's best game. Really a head scratcher.

Reborn
01-15-2018, 01:20 PM
I watched the game over this morning. It's always a good thing for me to do because the Zags always look better when I do that. I'd have to say I need to give San Francisco more credit than I did. They played hard, and shot quite well from behind the 3 pt arc which is typical of how they play. It's also good for me to remember how tough all the WCC teams will be when they play at home. I seemed to have forgotten that. It was great to see a packed gym too. I also needed to remember that USF always plays the Zags tough at home, and't always been a scary place for the Zags to play (at least scary for me).

I thought Perkins played great. He was the one one guy who was shooting great. I felt he should probably have shot more because he was the one who was hot. Hatchimura was also just so good, but this time on defense. He had 4 swats, mostly against guards who thought they could drive on him. He also had 8 rebounds (second highest on team to JW3's nine). Rui played the 3 quite a bit showing he can guard wings. Overall. I thought the Zags played pretty good D. They held USF to 38% shooting. Tillie had 4 turnovers which is not good, imo. Perkins only had one. A great stat.

I think the Zags played better than I first thought. I guess I'd like to see Larsen and Kispert get more minutes, but in closer games I guess it won't happen. Kispert did get 16 minutes, which isn't bad for a bench player I guess, but Larsen only got 4, and again played well. Williams shot 7-12, which is way better than I thought, and only had 2 turnovers (which is also better than I thought).

The other thing I noticed is that USF was a lot bigger than I thought. They had a couple of 6' 11" guys who sere built pretty well. They did our guys a tough time inside.

Kemo 1966
01-15-2018, 10:36 PM
On a side note...have always loved the name of their (USF) gym

Great gym to play in...built in 1958 (I think), "War Memorial" ...honoring our veterans...I played Frosh ball there in 1961 (for UOP). The "HOUSE RUSSELL AND JONES BUILT"

former1dog
01-16-2018, 08:17 AM
I watched the game over this morning. It's always a good thing for me to do because the Zags always look better when I do that. I'd have to say I need to give San Francisco more credit than I did. They played hard, and shot quite well from behind the 3 pt arc which is typical of how they play. It's also good for me to remember how tough all the WCC teams will be when they play at home. I seemed to have forgotten that. It was great to see a packed gym too. I also needed to remember that USF always plays the Zags tough at home, and't always been a scary place for the Zags to play (at least scary for me).

I thought Perkins played great. He was the one one guy who was shooting great. I felt he should probably have shot more because he was the one who was hot. Hatchimura was also just so good, but this time on defense. He had 4 swats, mostly against guards who thought they could drive on him. He also had 8 rebounds (second highest on team to JW3's nine). Rui played the 3 quite a bit showing he can guard wings. Overall. I thought the Zags played pretty good D. They held USF to 38% shooting. Tillie had 4 turnovers which is not good, imo. Perkins only had one. A great stat.

I think the Zags played better than I first thought. I guess I'd like to see Larsen and Kispert get more minutes, but in closer games I guess it won't happen. Kispert did get 16 minutes, which isn't bad for a bench player I guess, but Larsen only got 4, and again played well. Williams shot 7-12, which is way better than I thought, and only had 2 turnovers (which is also better than I thought).

The other thing I noticed is that USF was a lot bigger than I thought. They had a couple of 6' 11" guys who sere built pretty well. They did our guys a tough time inside.

Reborn, how did the poor officiating (my opinion) play into the turnover stats? It seems like we had quite a few turnovers based on poor calls from the refs (offensive fouls).

WallaWallaZag
01-16-2018, 08:33 AM
I watched the game over this morning. It's always a good thing for me to do because the Zags always look better when I do that. I'd have to say I need to give San Francisco more credit than I did. They played hard, and shot quite well from behind the 3 pt arc which is typical of how they play. It's also good for me to remember how tough all the WCC teams will be when they play at home. I seemed to have forgotten that. It was great to see a packed gym too. I also needed to remember that USF always plays the Zags tough at home, and't always been a scary place for the Zags to play (at least scary for me).

I thought Perkins played great. He was the one one guy who was shooting great. I felt he should probably have shot more because he was the one who was hot. Hatchimura was also just so good, but this time on defense. He had 4 swats, mostly against guards who thought they could drive on him. He also had 8 rebounds (second highest on team to JW3's nine). Rui played the 3 quite a bit showing he can guard wings. Overall. I thought the Zags played pretty good D. They held USF to 38% shooting. Tillie had 4 turnovers which is not good, imo. Perkins only had one. A great stat.

I think the Zags played better than I first thought. I guess I'd like to see Larsen and Kispert get more minutes, but in closer games I guess it won't happen. Kispert did get 16 minutes, which isn't bad for a bench player I guess, but Larsen only got 4, and again played well. Williams shot 7-12, which is way better than I thought, and only had 2 turnovers (which is also better than I thought).

The other thing I noticed is that USF was a lot bigger than I thought. They had a couple of 6' 11" guys who sere built pretty well. They did our guys a tough time inside.

biggest takeaway for me was few's willingness to use rui at the 3 spot for extended periods...ha, maybe put rui on naar = no layups

Hoopaholic
01-16-2018, 08:36 AM
Reborn, how did the poor officiating (my opinion) play into the turnover stats? It seems like we had quite a few turnovers based on poor calls from the refs (offensive fouls).

by my count 4 were caused by questionable calls

former1dog
01-16-2018, 08:51 AM
One other thing that I think I'm going to have to come to terms with as a fan. I strongly believe that JW3 is "playing out of position" in terms of being the first offensive option in the post like the team did in the past with Karnowski. It worked well with Karnowski because of his superior court vision and passing and of course the fact that no player could ever stop him from scoring one on one.

JW3 is a great player. But he doesn't have the court vision or the passing ability of a player like Karnowski and I think by playing through him is a mistake.

With that said, I think Few has made his decision and I need to be at peace with that.

zaguarxj
01-16-2018, 09:01 AM
by my count 4 were caused by questionable calls

The last offensive foul on Rui was utterly ridiculous. Rui played perfect defense on that play. He was rightfully incredulous after that call.

ZagsGoZags
01-17-2018, 03:21 AM
Rui's defense has shown marked progress since October. By leaps and bounds IMO. He is showing lateral quickness on defense I never saw last year.

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-17-2018, 04:16 AM
One other thing that I think I'm going to have to come to terms with as a fan. I strongly believe that JW3 is "playing out of position" in terms of being the first offensive option in the post like the team did in the past with Karnowski. It worked well with Karnowski because of his superior court vision and passing and of course the fact that no player could ever stop him from scoring one on one.

JW3 is a great player. But he doesn't have the court vision or the passing ability of a player like Karnowski and I think by playing through him is a mistake.

With that said, I think Few has made his decision and I need to be at peace with that.

Agree w you 100% here. Choice of putting your 5 best players on the court to start the game, which is what Zags are doing by starting JWIII and Tillie, vs putting the best team on the court, which imho would mean starting Larsen at the 5 and JWIII at the 4...his natural position.

It’s working vs WCC but I fear it won’t vs NCAA tourney foes. Tillie is an enigma to me in terms of showing up consistently. He may play w greater urgency and focus if coming off the bench