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View Full Version : Rating Bigs in the WCC



SLOZag
01-11-2018, 10:08 AM
There are two articles out today from different sources that provide contrasting views of Jock Landale and Killean Tille. ESPN reports that the Wooden Award committee released its mid-season top 25 list, and only Jock Landale is the only WCC player listed there. No Killian Tillie. http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/page/woodenwatch0110182/oklahoma-sooners-trae-young-heads-wooden-award-midseason-top-25?src=rss Yet the Sporting News, trying to guess at the 2018 NBA draft order, completely ignores Landale, and yet assigns Tillie slot # 34. http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-draft-2018-big-board-mock-prospect-rankings-trae-young-marvin-bagley-deandre-ayton/7kj74bxpuj211tvkvv5o0eaek?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter?src=rss Landale's situation brings to my mind Shem's experience last year, winning the Jabbar Award but not being drafted.

Comparing Landale and Tillie:

Do most fans here agree that Landale is one of the 25 "most outstanding player[s] in college basketball," and yet unlikely to be drafted this year?

And is Tillie not one of the 25 "most outstanding player[s] in college basketball," and yet likely to be drafted this year?

And a bonus question: Did Sporting News forget or intentionally exclude Rui from it's projected draft?

jake
01-11-2018, 10:45 AM
Comparing Landale and Tillie:

Do most fans here agree that Landale is one of the 25 "most outstanding player[s] in college basketball," and yet unlikely to be drafted this year? Probably/Yes

And is Tillie not one of the 25 "most outstanding player[s] in college basketball," and yet likely to be drafted this year? Yes, not one of the top 25; possibly will be drafted.

And a bonus question: Did Sporting News forget or intentionally exclude Rui from it's projected draft? I'd say intentionally exclude, but as in he's probably a stretch to be on most 2018 draft boards right now

The general point (which I'd frame as the difference between what makes a successful college player and NBA draft and NBA potential) is an interesting one. I'm not sure the two sources offer contrasting views as much as they are ranking different things. Londale is averaging 21/10. He's a better college player than Killian Tillie is right now. That doesn't necessarily translate into NBA draft potential though.

soccerdud
01-11-2018, 10:52 AM
yes.

yes.

honestly no idea.

hooter73
01-11-2018, 11:22 AM
Just win.

U Zig, I Zag
01-11-2018, 11:47 AM
Tillie is way too inconsistent.

Goshzagit
01-11-2018, 12:31 PM
scouts love GU.

our reputation for skilled bigs precedes us the last 4 yrs.

Olynyk, Sabonis, Collins are the perfect mid-1st Rd pick. Starters or rotational who can score 20 on any given night, not all-stars, but ALWAYS coachable, tough, and great teammates. The kind of versatile bigs who will stick around for 10+ seasons.

All eyes on Tillie, heck, even Larsen at this point, Petrusev next season.

Given our hype, proven talent, and skill, most our talented bigs (with potential) won't last much longer than Sophomore year.

Scouts and GM's don't want others to get a Sabonis type at 19, who develops into a FORCE.

Given we've put 4 consecutive bigs in as many years in the NBA, I hope we pitch the hell outta it. I know our opponents would -- why would any skilled big go anywhere else. We have a better track record at the Center/PF than 99% of schools right now, including blue bloods, at least more consistent.

Bogozags
01-11-2018, 12:58 PM
I would include Rob as one of the “Bigs” drafted into the NBA...

zag67
01-11-2018, 01:29 PM
And then add Karnowski and Harris overseas. For Guard U, our bigs are leaning how to play.

titopoet
01-11-2018, 02:48 PM
Curry has changed the NBA. Jock is a traditional and great back to the basket big, especially in college. Teams in the NBA are definitely moving away from back to the basket 5 and looking more for bigs that can play on the perimeter or shot blockers against driving PGs. Tillie is more of the mold they are looking for... stretch big that is more mobile and can hit a 3. Most teams are looking at Tille to fill a utility role at the range they are going to draft him. Jock really does not have a role in the way teams are playing now other than the occasional enforcer or bruiser. In today's open spacing drive and hit 3 world of Today's NBA, Tillie is vastly more valuable than Landale. Landale will have brush up his outside deep shooting and his dribbling to find a spot.

OZZY
01-11-2018, 02:56 PM
Tillie is way too inconsistent.

This, while Jock Landale has been consistent against all but the Zags (last year, albeit against the top defence in the country) .....

In saying that, with the Zags this year it is a choice of picking your poison....I think we have had 6 different players top score in a game, SMC has maybe 3-4 players who could top score.

Ezag
01-11-2018, 03:13 PM
Landale is heads above Tillie at this point

Zagdawg
01-11-2018, 03:17 PM
Add in Ronny to the bigs that had some success in the NBA-- great team guy.

Hoopaholic
01-11-2018, 05:26 PM
I am a little stumped with all the awe surrounding landale

He has two basic moves
Back you down until he is in paint then quick turnaround layup
Baseline spin move off his backing you down

sideshow06
01-11-2018, 07:32 PM
Curry has changed the NBA. Jock is a traditional and great back to the basket big, especially in college. Teams in the NBA are definitely moving away from back to the basket 5 and looking more for bigs that can play on the perimeter or shot blockers against driving PGs. Tillie is more of the mold they are looking for... stretch big that is more mobile and can hit a 3. Most teams are looking at Tille to fill a utility role at the range they are going to draft him. Jock really does not have a role in the way teams are playing now other than the occasional enforcer or bruiser. In today's open spacing drive and hit 3 world of Today's NBA, Tillie is vastly more valuable than Landale. Landale will have brush up his outside deep shooting and his dribbling to find a spot.

Totally agree that Landaleís ďtraditionalĒ style probably keeps him out of todayís NBA. According to what Iíve heard though, Landale isnít a bad outside shooter at all. But itís not an obvious part of his game at SMC. Just not his role. Doesnít help his draft stock if he doesnít show it of course, but it will be interesting to see if he gets workouts and gets to show what he can do.

Worth a mention that the ďotherĒ 7í+ Jock... Jock Perry, supposedly has been recorded at something ridiculous around 60% on 3ís in practice this year. Obviously thatís not official, not game situation and he doesnít shoot volume, but heís already made a few in garbage time in games this year. If he develops inside anything like our bigs usually do, and can stretch with a legit 3 point shot, he could be more of a nightmare for opponents than Landale ever was. He was rated higher than Landale in Australia.

sideshow06
01-11-2018, 07:42 PM
This, while Jock Landale has been consistent against all but the Zags (last year, albeit against the top defence in the country) .....

In saying that, with the Zags this year it is a choice of picking your poison....I think we have had 6 different players top score in a game, SMC has maybe 3-4 players who could top score.

You guys were one of the few teams with a big man (Karno) who legitimately challenged him with size. Mika was the next closest and they played to a near draw with Landale edging him out. This year it will be an interesting matchup. Iím not sure you can just stop him outright like Karno could. Heís getting better at avoiding foul trouble too. I think the GU/SMC games will be decided elsewhere on the court. I could see him having a 20ish point game and it not deciding the outcome. We have a weaker defense this year - that, I think, will be the difference.

WallaWallaZag
01-12-2018, 06:01 AM
You guys were one of the few teams with a big man (Karno) who legitimately challenged him with size. Mika was the next closest and they played to a near draw with Landale edging him out. This year it will be an interesting matchup. Iím not sure you can just stop him outright like Karno could. Heís getting better at avoiding foul trouble too. I think the GU/SMC games will be decided elsewhere on the court. I could see him having a 20ish point game and it not deciding the outcome. We have a weaker defense this year - that, I think, will be the difference.

didn't get a chance to catch the byu game this year...how'd the landale vs. yoeli childs match-up play out??? could be a precursor to landale vs. jw3

avid-zag-fan
01-12-2018, 06:41 AM
I watched the end of the game. I thought Childs did pretty good, but ran out of gas at the end. scored 29. Landale 31. BYU should have won that game.

WallaWallaZag
01-12-2018, 06:44 AM
I watched the end of the game. I thought Childs did pretty good, but ran out of gas at the end. scored 29. Landale 31. BYU should have won that game.

wow, i didn't even check the box score...didn't realize childs had such a monster game...how'd he get his points???

sideshow06
01-12-2018, 10:44 AM
didn't get a chance to catch the byu game this year...how'd the landale vs. yoeli childs match-up play out??? could be a precursor to landale vs. jw3

I'd have to go back and watch again, but just from memory I want to say they did not defend one another very often until the OT. Probably a calculated move to keep each out of foul trouble. Childs was often defended by Krebs and later Fitzner. BYU threw a constant stream of Worthington, Seljaas and Dastrup at Landale. They faced off a few times through regulation, and all the OT though. But it wasn't the constant 1-on-1 battle that Landale and Mika had last year.

Zagceo
01-12-2018, 10:48 AM
I am a little stumped with all the awe surrounding landale

He has two basic moves
Back you down until he is in paint then quick turnaround layup
Baseline spin move off his backing you down

Guess it depends how dominate you are with those 2 moves.

How many moves did PK have in your opinion?

Jabbar had 1 move.

sideshow06
01-12-2018, 02:39 PM
didn't get a chance to catch the byu game this year...how'd the landale vs. yoeli childs match-up play out??? could be a precursor to landale vs. jw3

Also worth a mention if we're comparing their performances, Landale got his 31 points on 86% shooting (13/15 from the field), and Childs got his on 48% shooting (12/25).