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Zagnificent
01-09-2018, 08:42 AM
Current Front Court:
JW3, Tillie, Larsen, Hachimura

2019 Front Court (assuming no NBA early entrants):
Tillie, Larsen, Hachimura, Clarke, Petrusev (+ Open roster spot)

Perhaps it's too early to even bring this up given the unknowns of the NBA draft, injury, and other unforeseen circumstances. But I have to wonder, how in the world are we going to get minutes to all these studs? All accounts have Petrusev and Clarke being potential immediate contributors. I can't imagine Petrusev redshirting. So I suppose that raises the question--what do we do with this wealth of talent? What are the odds that Tillie or Hachimura go pro? If all 5 are on the roster next year, how does the staff cope and spread minutes?

gonstu
01-09-2018, 08:47 AM
If Tillie is gone though, no log jam.

Mojo13
01-09-2018, 08:51 AM
If Tillie is gone though, no log jam.

The draft boards are still all over the place at this time of year, but Rui and Tillie are still potential first round (and maybe lottery picks) this year. Also seeing rumors that Tillie is looking to leave no matter his draft status.

No one knows what will happen, but they could both as easily be gone next year as not. If both are a coin toss right now - then that gives you a 75% chance at least one is gone.

bartruff1
01-09-2018, 09:02 AM
Oh my....

tyra
01-09-2018, 09:06 AM
And then again, what a problem to have!!

VaBeachZAG
01-09-2018, 09:11 AM
Current Front Court:
JW3, Tillie, Larsen, Hachimura

2019 Front Court (assuming no NBA early entrants):
Tillie, Larsen, Hachimura, Clarke, Petrusev (+ Open roster spot)

Perhaps it's too early to even bring this up given the unknowns of the NBA draft, injury, and other unforeseen circumstances. But I have to wonder, how in the world are we going to get minutes to all these studs? All accounts have Petrusev and Clarke being potential immediate contributors. I can't imagine Petrusev redshirting. So I suppose that raises the question--what do we do with this wealth of talent? What are the odds that Tillie or Hachimura go pro? If all 5 are on the roster next year, how does the staff cope and spread minutes?

No log jam in my opinion. Put Rui at the three and team rotate the bigs in like we did last year (i.e., PK and JIII started, then team subbed with Collins and Tillie). As some in the know have said, Tillie may be gone. But, if he is, we should still recruit another high level big to retain the team subbing capability; sure seemed to work great last year! Add a premium point guard and: hello final four!

hooter73
01-09-2018, 09:15 AM
No chance the roster looks like we think it will when the time comes. Either way, good problem to have as we saw what a four big rotation could do last year. Im more concerned about the reapeat of a backcourt non-log jam

cggonzaga
01-09-2018, 09:21 AM
Think you mean 2018.

CDC84
01-09-2018, 09:22 AM
Keep in mind that the Zags, to my knowledge, are still actively recruiting Top 15 prospect Jordan Brown (2018) as well. He's a big man too.

Kiddwell
01-09-2018, 09:26 AM
Kiddwell's looking forward to all that talent. It will be very similar to our Final Four bench where Fewie would bring in Collins & Tillie to spell Karno & Williams. We were hitting the opposition with waves of bigs, inundating them in height & talent. Loved it. Next year's team (if all the parts remain, are healthy) will be, IMO, very potent like last year's. We could start the season ranked in the Top 5. If, on top of the present/coming talent, Fewie also finds a top notch grad transfer, wowzers...


:]

TexasZagFan
01-09-2018, 09:30 AM
I expect Rui or Tillie to blow up during the Dance, vaulting either/both into first round draft picks. The trend has been established, thanks to The Bonus and Zach Collins. One monster game is all it takes.

bartruff1
01-09-2018, 10:02 AM
I can't remember....was there a log jam last year....?

jazzdelmar
01-09-2018, 10:03 AM
I expect Rui or Tillie to blow up during the Dance, vaulting either/both into first round draft picks. The trend has been established, thanks to The Bonus and Zach Collins. One monster game is all it takes.

You’re using my The Bonus now?

jazzdelmar
01-09-2018, 10:04 AM
Im more concerned about the reapeat of a backcourt non-log jam

Amen.

jazzdelmar
01-09-2018, 10:05 AM
[QUOTE=VaBeachZAG;1350761 Add a premium point guard and: hello final four![/QUOTE]

Amen, amen.

bartruff1
01-09-2018, 10:05 AM
I expect Rui or Tillie to blow up during the Dance, vaulting either/both into first round draft picks. The trend has been established, thanks to The Bonus and Zach Collins. One monster game is all it takes.

You might be right, but I suspect the people responsible for the hundreds of millions of dollars involved with building a competitive team make their drafts based upon dozens if not hundreds of games a individual has played...and the judgement of numerous coaches and scouts.... .I know I would ...

jazzdelmar
01-09-2018, 10:08 AM
You might be right, but I suspect the people responsible for the hundreds of millions of dollars involved with building a competitive team make their drafts based upon dozens if not hundreds of games a individual has played...and the judgement of numerous coaches and scouts.... .I know I would ...

Way too much credit to the nba brass, IMO. They’re not all phi beta kappas.

Zagnificent
01-09-2018, 10:09 AM
I don't even know what you would do with another transfer...I suppose another backcourt gem would be helpful, but the 3 is pretty set as well with Kispert/Jones/Rui/Norvell* (may be getting significant minutes at the 2). It's not like a NWG-esque talent is always available.

TexasZagFan
01-09-2018, 10:10 AM
You’re using my The Bonus now?

I was unaware it had a copyright.

bartruff1
01-09-2018, 10:19 AM
Way too much credit to the nba brass, IMO. They’re not all phi beta kappas.

In research....one point is not a trend....

Zagnificent
01-09-2018, 10:20 AM
RE: Jordan Brown

I had this in mind, which was one of the reasons for the post originally. I just don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that we land the kid. His pops (who is by all accounts an informed, intelligent and reasonable guy) seems to really favor the Pac-12. Prior to Cuonzo getting the boot from Cal, he seemed like a Cal lock. Now he's looking like the next big thing at UCLA. I also have heard that he's concerned about how far from home Jordan would be if we went to Gonzaga. Sure, it's one pretty easy flight, but to some that distance matters.

Hooray4Daye&Gray
01-09-2018, 10:24 AM
Keep in mind that the Zags, to my knowledge, are still actively recruiting Top 15 prospect Jordan Brown (2018) as well. He's a big man too.

And what a great thread title for him and people around him to see right at the top of this message board as he considers his options...:explode:

Can we lock this thread instead of turning it into the second thread that is sure to go down the path of speculating Tillie is leaving?

bartruff1
01-09-2018, 10:26 AM
Be sure to enjoy Tillie this year....

TexasZagFan
01-09-2018, 10:28 AM
Way too much credit to the nba brass, IMO. They’re not all phi beta kappas.

Case in point, Dallas Mavericks. Donnie Nelson made his career off of finding Dirk Nowitzki. Since then bupkis.

Traded Kelly Olynyk for a handful of marbles. Imagine how good Kelly might be today with a few years of being an understudy for Dirk.

cggonzaga
01-09-2018, 10:43 AM
Current Front Court:
JW3, Tillie, Larsen, Hachimura

2019 Front Court (assuming no NBA early entrants):
Tillie, Larsen, Hachimura, Clarke, Petrusev (+ Open roster spot)

Perhaps it's too early to even bring this up given the unknowns of the NBA draft, injury, and other unforeseen circumstances. But I have to wonder, how in the world are we going to get minutes to all these studs? All accounts have Petrusev and Clarke being potential immediate contributors. I can't imagine Petrusev redshirting. So I suppose that raises the question--what do we do with this wealth of talent? What are the odds that Tillie or Hachimura go pro? If all 5 are on the roster next year, how does the staff cope and spread minutes?

Mind changing title to 2018. If you’re talking about 2019 you’d have to add Anton Watson and whichever other 2019 big we end up with.

MontanaCoyote
01-09-2018, 10:52 AM
Kiddwell's looking forward to all that talent. It will be very similar to our Final Four bench where Fewie would bring in Collins & Tillie to spell Karno & Williams. We were hitting the opposition with waves of bigs, inundating them in height & talent. Loved it. Next year's team (if all the parts remain, are healthy) will be, IMO, very potent like last year's. We could start the season ranked in the Top 5. If, on top of the present/coming talent, Fewie also finds a top notch grad transfer, wowzers...


:]

I think this is (pretty much right on) PMRO. Seems to me that many of the top ten or so teams have big, strong, tough bruisers inside. Maybe not 7 footers, but big and tall enough to make life miserable for teams inside. Hope these potential "insiders or painters" posted here materialize for next year.

MDABE80
01-09-2018, 11:13 AM
Our problem won't be BIGS. Our problem will only be solved in the offseason. It's how Few wants to handle the PG/SG situation. We never had it better than with Josh as a SG who spelled Nigel at PG. I suggest we go in that direction. We find or create a situation like that and we go back to the FF. As an aside, Clarke is an NBA strong prospect. Quite the player. Very advanced. Next year Rui and him would be a scary duo.

jazzdelmar
01-09-2018, 12:34 PM
Be sure to enjoy Tillie this year....

Not yet.

hooter73
01-09-2018, 12:51 PM
^ lol Im sorry but thats funny right there

cggonzaga
01-09-2018, 12:57 PM
Add a premium point guard and: hello final four!

First, we’ll have an above average pg in Josh (assuming he comes back). Second, it doesn’t take an elite pg to make the final four. Third, no “elite” GU pg has made a final four except Josh Perkins and NWG. Fourth, Josh and Nigel were combo guards last year. Both played point and shooting guard at times. Finally, with Josh and Zach back next year I think that’s a very strong backcourt.

JPtheBeasta
01-09-2018, 01:26 PM
Case in point, Dallas Mavericks. Donnie Nelson made his career off of finding Dirk Nowitzki. Since then bupkis.

Traded Kelly Olynyk for a handful of marbles. Imagine how good Kelly might be today with a few years of being an understudy for Dirk.

He would have been a great understudy for that role.

JPtheBeasta
01-09-2018, 01:27 PM
Not yet.

I tried really hard to not think that was funny.

He’s had a few good games but he has such great potential that he isn’t living up to yet, it seems to me.

bartruff1
01-09-2018, 01:53 PM
I don't think it is funny at all...it is insulting to a young man that has had some outstanding games.....and is seldom.... if ever... the focus of the offense...

jazzdelmar
01-09-2018, 02:19 PM
First, we’ll have an above average pg in Josh (assuming he comes back). Second, it doesn’t take an elite pg to make the final four. Third, no “elite” GU pg has made a final four except Josh Perkins and NWG. Fourth, Josh and Nigel were combo guards last year. Both played point and shooting guard at times. Finally, with Josh and Zach back next year I think that’s a very strong backcourt.

Is there a 6th option? Can we assume the quote marks are yours?

jazzdelmar
01-09-2018, 02:21 PM
I don't think it is funny at all...it is insulting to a young man that has had some outstanding games.....and is seldom.... if ever... the focus of the offense...

Ratio of 3 stinkers to 1 superb game, Bart? I think he oozes talent. Just is plagued by an idle motor. He’s had 9 games with single digit points.

MDABE80
01-09-2018, 02:22 PM
First, we’ll have an above average pg in Josh (assuming he comes back). Second, it doesn’t take an elite pg to make the final four. Third, no “elite” GU pg has made a final four except Josh Perkins and NWG. Fourth, Josh and Nigel were combo guards last year. Both played point and shooting guard at times. Finally, with Josh and Zach back next year I think that’s a very strong backcourt.

If you feel better with labels.....fine. Labels in this system usually don't mean much. But whatever, we'll be need a Nigel type guard to work with Josh. Josh cannot get us to a FF without another superior guard.ie a Nigel type. Few will find one. It's nearly goes without saying that combination last year was very helpful in getting us a deep spot in the dance. As for me, I'm just common sense........"ya dance with the one who brought ya to the dance". FF/E8 run will require more than Josh. Few's looking. Negative Nancies..this is good news I think!

bartruff1
01-09-2018, 02:49 PM
Ratio of 3 stinkers to 1 superb game, Bart? I think he oozes talent. Just is plagued by an idle motor. He’s had 9 games with single digit points.

Ok...you win....I'm done....

raise the zag
01-09-2018, 02:57 PM
Im more concerned about the reapeat of a backcourt non-log jam.

made me laugh. :lmao:

cggonzaga
01-09-2018, 03:22 PM
Is there a 6th option? Can we assume the quote marks are yours?

Not sure what you’re asking? No “elite” pg at Gonzaga has taken his team to a final four. Josh (not considered an elite GU pg by some) and Nigel did. Not sure how you can argue that but I’m sure you will.

The point being a team doesn’t need an elite pg to win a NC.

cggonzaga
01-09-2018, 03:27 PM
If you feel better with labels.....fine. Labels in this system usually don't mean much. But whatever, we'll be need a Nigel type guard to work with Josh. Josh cannot get us to a FF without another superior guard.ie a Nigel type. Few will find one. It's nearly goes without saying that combination last year was very helpful in getting us a deep spot in the dance. As for me, I'm just common sense........"ya dance with the one who brought ya to the dance". FF/E8 run will require more than Josh. Few's looking. Negative Nancies..this is good news I think!

As usual, you have poor reading comprehension. I never said Josh could take us as the only lead guard. In fact I even referenced Zach in my post, whom I believe has immense potential as another lead guard.

Zagceo
01-09-2018, 04:09 PM
First, we’ll have an above average pg in Josh (assuming he comes back). Second, it doesn’t take an elite pg to make the final four. Third, no “elite” GU pg has made a final four except Josh Perkins and NWG. Fourth, Josh and Nigel were combo guards last year. Both played point and shooting guard at times. Finally, with Josh and Zach back next year I think that’s a very strong backcourt.


Not sure what you’re asking? No “elite” pg at Gonzaga has taken his team to a final four. Josh (not considered an elite GU pg by some) and Nigel did. Not sure how you can argue that but I’m sure you will.

The point being a team doesn’t need an elite pg to win a NC.


As usual, you have poor reading comprehension. I never said Josh could take us as the only lead guard. In fact I even referenced Zach in my post, whom I believe has immense potential as another lead guard.

I'm confused...when you write..... no “elite” GU pg has made a final four except Josh Perkins and NWG in one post and another write Josh (not considered an elite GU pg by some) and Nigel did.

maynard g krebs
01-09-2018, 04:29 PM
I'm confused...when you write..... no “elite” GU pg has made a final four except Josh Perkins and NWG in one post and another write Josh (not considered an elite GU pg by some) and Nigel did.

Quite clear to me. Parentheses constitute an aside, separate from the main body of the phrase, which is "Josh and Nigel did" which is functionally equivalent to "except Josh Perkins and NWG" .

As to the larger debate, while I'm at it and we're already off topic, my slightly fuzzy recollection is that, in his first 5 games as a true fr before the karate kick, Josh would come in and play the 1 with Pangos moving off the ball and playing as the sg to a large extent. And those first 5 games incl a ranked SMU, ST Joes, and Georgia in New York. There have only been a handful of fr guards that Few has trusted to that degree.

And some people back then thought that Josh's loss cost the Zags a shot at the final 4 that year. FWIW, I was in agreement

I've deconstructed the situation in another thread w/ facts and logic, but as sitting says, it's like talking to a fence post.

cggonzaga
01-09-2018, 04:41 PM
I'm confused...when you write..... no “elite” GU pg has made a final four except Josh Perkins and NWG in one post and another write Josh (not considered an elite GU pg by some) and Nigel did.

Maynard is correct. The point was despite the fact Josh gets constantly criticized, he’s part of the backcourt that helped take us to the final four. The other elite GU pg’s never accomplished the feat and there were some that had plenty of talent to get there.

MDABE80
01-09-2018, 05:06 PM
"Part" but the other one got us there. Arguing just to argue
much? He was an AA. MVP likely in his Euro league. Sorta speaks for itself doesn't it??

ZagzKrak
01-09-2018, 05:13 PM
"Part" but the other one got us there. Arguing just to argue
much? He was an AA. MVP likely in his Euro league. Sorta speaks for itself doesn't it??


Let's not kid ourselves...any above average pair of guards could have got that team to the FF with that front court. All 4 front court guys are going to be playing pro either here or overseas.

MDABE80
01-09-2018, 06:10 PM
[QUOTE=ZagzKrak;1350851]Let's not kid ourselves...any above average pair of guards could have got that team to the FF with that front court. All 4 front court guys are going to be playing pro either here or overseas.[/QUOTE
We've had above
Average guards for the past
20 years but I don't remember a Final Four! Do you? I think it was the team that was driven by an extraordinary kid who got us there. We've had Walters and Sabonus kids before. It was the TEAM directed by a superior colleg PG.

Hoopaholic
01-09-2018, 06:14 PM
[QUOTE=ZagzKrak;1350851]Let's not kid ourselves...any above average pair of guards could have got that team to the FF with that front court. All 4 front court guys are going to be playing pro either here or overseas.[/QUOTE
We've had above
Average guards for the past
20 years but I don't remember a Final Four! Do you?

Don’t recall having above average guards WITH Kareem jab at winner all tournament power forward and a lottery pick. If off bench. Takes a team sprinkled with little luck to get to FF

ZagzKrak
01-09-2018, 06:22 PM
We have never had a team with 4 bigs that good...not even close. We have had some very good bigs in the past but never 4 at the same time.

MDABE80
01-09-2018, 08:20 PM
We back to this old saw. 4 bigs.very good one but you only can play 2 at time.at least that's how Few did it last year. SO if we only play 2 at a time, of course we had equal or better bigs. J3 started (he's playing this year too) and so did Shem. Backups who played light minutes were Tillie ( he's here again and Collins ( who played 15 min per game. By all counts about the same The difference in last years team was the TEAM that was developed by and directed by an experienced PG. It seems some hardheads are trying to equate Josh with Nigel. Forget abuot that. Both have their skills. Josh scored 8.7 ppg lst year while Nigel score 16.8 ppg. Josh is shooting well again this year. Josh passed ( cough) last year and so did Nigel.......

One knew how to direct a team to the FF. Who knows! Maybe Josh will achieve the same. But when it comes to thoughtful and focused management of the same, It's not close. Perhaps it's intangibles. Who knows.... but the quality of the games favor last years PG. Josh is a good shooter. Maybe he'll ascend to being an AA and take his team to a FF. Maybe he'll go pro in Europe and be an MVP too. Maybe not. In my view though, when it come to PG, there's really no comparison . Maybe next year . This argument has grown stale......very different players. Some like one style and others like the other style. Being constantly hassled because some like one or the other is getting pretty ridiculous. In the end, the proof is in the pudding.

This thread was changed from a look at the Bigs for next year...it's veered off. I don't know why. Somebody needs to grow up. Our Bigs next year will be unparalleled in their talent.....just an opinion.

ZagzKrak
01-09-2018, 09:27 PM
Let us hope we have 4 quality big next year. That let's the guards play more aggressive on defense knowing that they have 2 rim protectors backing them up. It allows the bigs to be more aggressive at the rim knowing they don't have to worry about fouling out as much. It allows the bigs to seal their man on offense and allow easy floaters in the lane. Having depth in the front court is key to any deep run.

maynard g krebs
01-09-2018, 11:25 PM
Let's not kid ourselves...any above average pair of guards could have got that team to the FF with that front court. All 4 front court guys are going to be playing pro either here or overseas.

Exactly.

In the NCAA's NWG increased his shot attempts from 10.9 to 15.7, while his fg% dropped a whopping 17%, from 52 to 35% (33/94). In addition, his ft % dropped from about 90 to 68. He was pressing and trying to do too much. Increasing his shot attempts by about 45% is an alarming number, when your shooting % falls drastically. A "game manager" looks to create for others when his shot isn't falling. And you don't drastically change your game in the NCAA tourney; you do what got you there.

He did rebound and defend well. But if everybody had performed like his 2/10 w/ 5 turnovers v WVA, it would have been another sweet 16 year. The interior guys and team defense had to win that particular game, and a slightly off line 3 pointer had to rattle in after a tipped pass.

It's a team game, and the idea that NWG carried the Zags to the title game is revisionist fiction.

mgadfly
01-09-2018, 11:59 PM
Mind changing title to 2018. If you’re talking about 2019 you’d have to add Anton Watson and whichever other 2019 big we end up with.

This year is 2017-18 and will be referenced as 2018 in the future. Like Morrison's junior season was 2006, or the 2009 team was the super talented squad with Daye, JH, and JP. Or as we went to the E8 in the 1998 season.

So the title is right.

jazzdelmar
01-10-2018, 04:48 AM
Exactly.

In the NCAA's NWG increased his shot attempts from 10.9 to 15.7, while his fg% dropped a whopping 17%, from 52 to 35% (33/94). In addition, his ft % dropped from about 90 to 68. He was pressing and trying to do too much. Increasing his shot attempts by about 45% is an alarming number, when your shooting % falls drastically. A "game manager" looks to create for others when his shot isn't falling. And you don't drastically change your game in the NCAA tourney; you do what got you there.

He did rebound and defend well. But if everybody had performed like his 2/10 w/ 5 turnovers v WVA, it would have been another sweet 16 year. The interior guys and team defense had to win that particular game, and a slightly off line 3 pointer had to rattle in after a tipped pass.

It's a team game, and the idea that NWG carried the Zags to the title game is revisionist fiction.

Great analysis May, welcome back. Sorry bout your Quacks. :)

MileHigh
01-10-2018, 05:01 AM
but the quality of the games favor last years PG. .

I have posted this before, so I am not sure if you didn't see it or are just choosing to ignore it, but last year the point guard duties were shared almost exactly 50/50. The staff breaks down every film of every game, possession by possession, and last year the possessions where Josh was the lead guard that brought the ball up court and initiated the offense (in other word played the pg position) was equal to NWG. If memory serves me it was 51% for one and 49% for the other.
A whole lot of what NWG did last year that really allowed GU to take off, was the dribble drive stuff he did as the off guard. He would catch the ball on the wing and get in the lane and shoot his floater or find a teammate. Great plays, but not necessarily as the the pg on that particular possession.
So you can argue, in your opinion, Nigel was the better pg of the two last year, and the numbers would support your argument. You can even argue that NWG was better than Josh at both spots last year (sg and pg) and the numbers might even support you there as well. But you really cant argue that NWG was the pg while Josh played the sg because that just wasn't the case. Literally, half of the All-American work that NWG put in on the court last year was as the off guard.

MileHigh
01-10-2018, 05:12 AM
This thread was changed from a look at the Bigs for next year...it's veered off. I don't know why. Somebody needs to grow up. Our Bigs next year will be unparalleled in their talent.....just an opinion.

haha....SMDH.......You are the one that veered this thread off track! Absolutely no one in this thread was doing this tired Josh vs. NWG argument until you interjected it in post #27...no one but you!,:explode:

Bogozags
01-10-2018, 05:19 AM
RE: Jordan Brown

I had this in mind, which was one of the reasons for the post originally. I just don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that we land the kid. His pops (who is by all accounts an informed, intelligent and reasonable guy) seems to really favor the Pac-12. Prior to Cuonzo getting the boot from Cal, he seemed like a Cal lock. Now he's looking like the next big thing at UCLA. I also have heard that he's concerned about how far from home Jordan would be if we went to Gonzaga. Sure, it's one pretty easy flight, but to some that distance matters.

I’ve heard time and time again that four and five star recruits with whom we are or have been interested, list us in their top five!

Well, until Jordan Brown actually has an official visit at GU, he is in my understanding NOT interested in GU, let alone commit to GU.

So I believe this young man doesn’t have any interest in leaving California; therefore, he won’t be part of any “log jam” in our front court during the 2018-19 season.

Goshzagit
01-10-2018, 05:53 AM
RE: Jordan Brown

I had this in mind, which was one of the reasons for the post originally. I just don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that we land the kid. His pops (who is by all accounts an informed, intelligent and reasonable guy) seems to really favor the Pac-12. Prior to Cuonzo getting the boot from Cal, he seemed like a Cal lock. Now he's looking like the next big thing at UCLA. I also have heard that he's concerned about how far from home Jordan would be if we went to Gonzaga. Sure, it's one pretty easy flight, but to some that distance matters.


I’ve heard time and time again that four and five star recruits with whom we are or have been interested, list us in their top five!

Well, until Jordan Brown actually has an official visit at GU, he is in my understanding NOT interested in GU, let alone commit to GU.

So I believe this young man doesn’t have any interest in leaving California; therefore, he won’t be part of any “log jam” in our front court during the 2018-19 season.

fwiw, this is precisely how I feel about our 2020 recruit, Dominick Harris.

Him and his Father are returning the "love", much as we've shown them, bringing attn along the way.

I just don't see either prospect leaving Southern California when its all said and done, especially given their shared interest in Cali-based schools/programs. Austin Daye said from the beginning, "I want to get away", and he did. Showing interest in schools all across the country, mostly outside of California.

Harris has listed, visited ALL Southern Cali schools, and Gonzaga.

Deep down I don't believe there is any intention of leaving the area. I honestly feel he's such a good/nice kid, he's giving us visits as a 'thank you'. I am sure there is genuine "interest" in us, but all signs point to him staying in California, Brown too.

His entire family resides in Orange & LA county. The UCLA, USC, SDSU, et al offers have not been delivered yet. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, as its just my opinion, no hearsay this go around.

TexasZagFan
01-10-2018, 06:19 AM
fwiw, this is precisely how I feel about our 2020 recruit, Dominick Harris.

Him and his Father are returning the "love", much as we've shown them, bringing attn along the way.

I just don't see either prospect leaving Southern California when its all said and done, especially given their shared interest in Cali-based schools/programs. Austin Daye said from the beginning, "I want to get away", and he did. Showing interest in schools all across the country, mostly outside of California.

Harris has listed, visited ALL Southern Cali schools, and Gonzaga.

Deep down I don't believe there is any intention of leaving the area. I honestly feel he's such a good/nice kid, he's giving us visits as a 'thank you'. I am sure there is genuine "interest" in us, but all signs point to him staying in California, Brown too.

His entire family resides in Orange & LA county. The UCLA, USC, SDSU, et al offers have not been delivered yet. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, as its just my opinion, no hearsay this go around.

I'm a bit more optimistic about Mr. Harris. A lot can happen over the next two years, and he may want to spread his wings when he's a senior. Zags will continue to roll for the next two years, no matter who signs with us.

cggonzaga
01-10-2018, 07:14 AM
This year is 2017-18 and will be referenced as 2018 in the future. Like Morrison's junior season was 2006, or the 2009 team was the super talented squad with Daye, JH, and JP. Or as we went to the E8 in the 1998 season.

So the title is right.

Sorry but no. Season is based off year it starts. That’s why recruits such as Watson and Ravet are 2019, as in the year they start college.

Zagceo
01-10-2018, 08:26 AM
Exactly.

In the NCAA's NWG increased his shot attempts from 10.9 to 15.7, while his fg% dropped a whopping 17%, from 52 to 35% (33/94). In addition, his ft % dropped from about 90 to 68. He was pressing and trying to do too much. Increasing his shot attempts by about 45% is an alarming number, when your shooting % falls drastically. A "game manager" looks to create for others when his shot isn't falling. And you don't drastically change your game in the NCAA tourney; you do what got you there.

He did rebound and defend well. But if everybody had performed like his 2/10 w/ 5 turnovers v WVA, it would have been another sweet 16 year. The interior guys and team defense had to win that particular game, and a slightly off line 3 pointer had to rattle in after a tipped pass.

It's a team game, and the idea that NWG carried the Zags to the title game is revisionist fiction.

Leaders lead...NWG was alpha dog leader. Coach Few said it was like having another coach on the floor. The post season is about winning and advancing doing whatever it takes.

Perkins made his choice when they asked him about the possibility of NWG transferring to GU and Perkins said he was fine with it...good team player people said. I don't think that would have been NWG answer IMO.

Our bigs did not dominate the paint on offense in the post season....it was the opposite.

NWG played 38 min against WVU and 39 in UNC I'm willing to say NWG carried heavier load despite statistics you site.

Perkins carries that load this year IMO

ZagzKrak
01-10-2018, 08:42 AM
The bigs didn't dominate?? really? I'm just gonna leave this here. http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/mar/25/johnathan-williams-was-the-best-in-the-west/

Zagceo
01-10-2018, 09:46 AM
Our bigs did not dominate the paint on offense in the post season....it was the opposite.


The bigs didn't dominate?? really? I'm just gonna leave this here. http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/mar/25/johnathan-williams-was-the-best-in-the-west/

Really.

Scoring in the paint post season

South Dakota 20 Zags 26

NU 30 Zags 30

WVU 16 Zags 22

XU 34 Zags 34

SC 28 Zags 30

UNC 40 Zags 18

against some others yes we did dominate the paint on occasion

FLA 26 Zags 36

SMC 22 Zags 38

BYU 26 Zags 42

former1dog
01-10-2018, 10:16 AM
Really.

Scoring in the paint post season

South Dakota 20 Zags 26

NU 30 Zags 30

WVU 16 Zags 22

XU 34 Zags 34

SC 28 Zags 30

UNC 40 Zags 18

against some others yes we did dominate the paint on occasion

FLA 26 Zags 36

SMC 22 Zags 38

BYU 26 Zags 42

Your statistics don't tell the story at all. Gonzaga famously plays an inside out offense, even this year. The better the bigs, the better the scoring opportunities for the entire team, especially the guards.

Our bigs last year commanded defensive attention opening up opportunities for the entire offense last year, especially the dribble drive and three point shooting opportunities. Karnowski was absolutely unstoppable one on one (except, sadly and uncharacteristically in the final game) and commanded a double team where he often would get an assist or a "hockey" assist. I recall in particular Xavier was so determined to not let our bigs beat them that they repeatedly left open our 3 point shooters leading to a "blow out" victory and the first trip to the final four.

Furthermore, our bigs on defense were so dominant that it out allowed our guards to focus on perimeter defense and the 3 point line like never before in the history of our program knowing that dribble drives would be well defended by the likes of Shem, J3 and Collins.

The dominance of our bigs on last years team is not really a debatable point . Shem the winningest player in D1 history and arguably last years team MVP for the attention he drew, being a point center and a master of directing the defense, not to mention the winner of the Kareem Abdul Jabbar award; a deserved NBA lottery pick Collins; and regional MOP Jonathan Williams. Not sure why you think the stand alone stat of points in the paint proves otherwise?

jazzdelmar
01-10-2018, 10:26 AM
Can't believe we are even arguing about the ingredients to last year's memorable, one for the ages run to the NC. Yes there was great, great talent but the chemistry was unsurpassed and, sadly, ephemeral.....Just enjoy all the One Shining Moments.

ZagzKrak
01-10-2018, 10:34 AM
I would say those stats show how important the bigs were. The one game that they got out performed we lost.

JPtheBeasta
01-10-2018, 10:47 AM
Leaders lead...NWG was alpha dog leader. Coach Few said it was like having another coach on the floor. The post season is about winning and advancing doing whatever it takes.

Perkins made his choice when they asked him about the possibility of NWG transferring to GU and Perkins said he was fine with it...good team player people said. I don't think that would have been NWG answer IMO.

Our bigs did not dominate the paint on offense in the post season....it was the opposite.

NWG played 38 min against WVU and 39 in UNC I'm willing to say NWG carried heavier load despite statistics you site.

Perkins carries that load this year IMO

The amount of points scored is not necessarily as important as when they are scored.

He had timely scoring that stopped the bleeding on multiple occasions when the opponent made runs. There were other times when he seemed to put the team on his back by going on a scoring run; in those moments I imagined him thinking something like, “Ok, it’s time to go win the game now.”

Also lost in the statistical analysis is that he swept floors :)

TexasZagFan
01-10-2018, 10:49 AM
The amount of points scored is not necessarily as important as when they are scored.

He had timely scoring that stopped the bleeding on multiple occasions when the opponent made runs. There were other times when he seemed to put the team on his back by going on a scoring run; in those moments I imagined him thinking something like, “Ok, it’s time to go win the game now.”

Also lost in the statistical analysis is that he swept floors :)

His talents would have been helpful at Pepperdine...sweeping floors, that is.

JPtheBeasta
01-10-2018, 11:28 AM
His talents would have been helpful at Pepperdine...sweeping floors, that is.

Are you referring to the game recently when 3 or so Zags slipped under the hoop? I’m faulting Perkins for failing to get on the sweeping duty.

Zagceo
01-10-2018, 11:30 AM
I would say those stats show how important the bigs were. The one game that they got out performed we lost.

bigs are important..unless you're Nova this year and haven't played a bigger seasoned front line...yet :)

sorry Jazz but conference play just lacks

statistics and opinions good brew for fun debates

TexasZagFan
01-10-2018, 11:31 AM
Are you referring to the game recently when 3 or so Zags slipped under the hoop? I’m faulting Perkins for failing to get on the sweeping duty.

Don't give Abe any more fodder... :lmao:

seacatfan
01-10-2018, 11:52 AM
Points in the paint statistics include layups by guards. That really dilutes the argument when talking about frontcourt matchups between teams. It also negates mid range and long distance shooting by the bigs. In other words, points in the paint doesn't really accurately show you how the bigs performed. It is an incomplete picture.

mgadfly
01-10-2018, 12:36 PM
Sorry but no. Season is based off year it starts. That’s why recruits such as Watson and Ravet are 2019, as in the year they start college.

Wrong. And while recruits aren't seasons, they are based off the year they graduate HS.

TravelinZag
01-10-2018, 01:05 PM
Interesting thread, with too many variables to resolve. Certain someone on the staff has been thinking about it also. However, these situations largely resolve themselves: one more or one less commits, one commit (not uncommon among bigs) who is not yet ready to perform at a new level — think redshirt and clinic, injuries, etc., etc.

When the mix doesn’t work perfectly, Coach tweaks the system; witness this team versus last. If the odds indicate a surplus of bigs, shift focus to guards. I just hope players and prospects are candid with the coaches regardless of their public position. We speculators don’t need to know early; the staff does. Plus, they’ll be careful not to tip their hand.

No two teams are alike, but the program is in great hands!

maynard g krebs
01-10-2018, 01:10 PM
Great analysis May, welcome back. Sorry bout your Quacks. :)

Happy about both my faves' runs last year. Should have met in the title game if not for crooked officiating v both; Bell shoved into the cheap seats by UNC's 260 lb'er on the ft miss, phantom fouls on Collins.(I'd have rooted for the Zags in final, of course, and unequivocally).. Not gonna happen every year. Quacks have historically improved by Feb, but I don't see it happening this yr. Elijah Brown is shockingly bad, given his rep; awful chucker. Zags dodged a bullet on that one. MacIntosh mediocre, Troy Brown far from the 1 and done lottery pick some envisioned. Hope the Ducks can make it to the Gahden in March for the other final 4, as a springboard for next year.

Makes the Zags' level of play w/ all the newcomers and arguably losing last year's top 4 all the more remarkable by comparison, imo.

seacatfan
01-10-2018, 01:55 PM
Welcome back maynard! I enjoy your contributions on this board. Ducks maybe not looking so good so far, but the Pac 12 is an absolute mess at this point w/ no clear cut favorite. After 2 weeks of play no unbeatens and only 1 team w/ no wins.

You might consider becoming a women's basketball fan this year (if you aren't already). Ionescu is one of a kind and the team is shaping up to have a really good season it appears.

MDABE80
01-10-2018, 02:17 PM
haha....SMDH.......You are the one that veered this thread off track! Absolutely no one in this thread was doing this tired Josh vs. NWG argument until you interjected it in post #27...no one but you!,:explode:
Only in reference to management of the Bigs which was the topic of the thread. Does your brain fudge all the time or just a little???

And I do not agree that any above average guards could have landed GU in the FF. That's just stupid. And I'll agree we had some good ones last year. We do this year too...just not the expertise to make them function as well as last years group.

Zagceo
01-10-2018, 06:21 PM
Points in the paint statistics include layups by guards. That really dilutes the argument when talking about frontcourt matchups between teams. It also negates mid range and long distance shooting by the bigs. In other words, points in the paint doesn't really accurately show you how the bigs performed. It is an incomplete picture.

Points in the paint include points in the paint....good rim protection can have big impact

seacatfan
01-10-2018, 09:14 PM
Points in the paint include points in the paint....good rim protection can have big impact

Yes, but that doesn't refute my point.

maynard g krebs
01-10-2018, 11:25 PM
You might consider becoming a women's basketball fan this year (if you aren't already). Ionescu is one of a kind and the team is shaping up to have a really good season it appears.

I'm a huge fan of Lexi Bando, and not entirely because she leads the nation in career 3 pt % and is, like me, a lefty. Duckettes could challenge for the natl title in 2019 when the Notre Dame transfer/ former Parade HS girls' POY and Satou Sabally's little sister join the team. But alas, my basketball dream girl Lexi will be gone.

seacatfan
01-11-2018, 09:43 AM
I'm a huge fan of Lexi Bando, and not entirely because she leads the nation in career 3 pt % and is, like me, a lefty. Duckettes could challenge for the natl title in 2019 when the Notre Dame transfer/ former Parade HS girls' POY and Satou Sabally's little sister join the team. But alas, my basketball dream girl Lexi will be gone.

Bando was headed to Gonzaga before Kelly Graves accepted the head coaching job at Oregon. Yeah, she can really knock down the 3's.

maynard g krebs
01-11-2018, 02:39 PM
Bando was headed to Gonzaga before Kelly Graves accepted the head coaching job at Oregon. Yeah, she can really knock down the 3's.

Interesting. Didn't know that. She's a Eugene girl so I just assumed she'd grown up wanting to play for the Ducks.