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Goshzagit
01-06-2018, 07:43 AM
I don't like to create threads about these topics, but after hearing a 2nd time that Tillie intends to leave after this season.

Much like I was told and subsequently posted NWG was planning to declare before the 2016 season even started. Williams-Goss was gone regardless of last season's stats, accolades, results, etc. It was a one year run no matter the outcome. The plan was to declare from the beginning once he chose Gonzaga. Hard to hear/believe, as NWG is one of my favorite players, persons, and personalities to every don a Zags uni, but that was his plan. To fine tune his game and take it to the next level. I honestly don't believe he expected to fall in love with Gonzaga as much as he did, so his ultimate plan was tough in the end, but it worked out. He's about to win POY/MVP of his Europe-league, and will get another chance at the League next season.

Hearing the exact same thing about Killian. Unlike Collins unexpected departure, the Coaches are at least more aware of Tillie's plans.

Unlike NWG, Killian simply hates school. Not Gonzaga. Loves it here, but just school in general. Also, his family is very committed to his future. He will make a run at the League, if not NBA, then overseas while he's still young, growing, fit, healthy, etc.

I had initially heard this in early November, as I did with NWG, yet thought his laundry list of flaws and quiet games vs top competition quelled these thoughts/endeavors.

After hearing an update this past week, Tillie is gone.

I feel its a mistake. He is just rounding into form as a player, gaining strength, understanding of his own strengths, and discovering his full arsenal of abilities. He will make a team a versatile, utility bench player who can play SF & PF at the next level, and defend SG, SF, & PF. He is still a major work in progress. He isn't listed on ANY NBA boards this season, yet is considered a Lottery pick in 2019. Scouts have taken notice of his length, athleticism, and versatility. Can plug a lot of holes as a bench rotational guy, thus a late 1st Rd or early 2nd for a team's 2nd draft picks would be his landing spot.

As for Rui, no one knows. No word or share, as he doesn't even know what his plans are, or really seem to care. Just enjoying the ride. He loves school, Gonzaga, learning along the way, soaking in all new experiences, and representing his Country. He's not nearly emotionally ready to leave, and is well protected, and cared for at Gonzaga. His role is increasing exponentially as well. If he stays, which is expected, he will explode onto the scene next season.

Anyway, thought to share once again about Tillie. Enjoy him while he is still a player for us. Fun to watch. Still feel he should come off the bench or be paired next to Larsen, but love his game.

ZagNut08
01-06-2018, 07:51 AM
Heard from an NBA scout who watched the teams practice this week that there is virtually no excitement over the talent on this years squad, a stark contrast to last year. Not saying he won’t leave, but there isn’t a consensus about his draft stock if he leaves after this season.

Goshzagit
01-06-2018, 07:56 AM
Heard from an NBA scout who watched the teams practice this week that there is virtually no excitement over the talent on this years squad, a stark contrast to last year. Not saying he won’t leave, but there isn’t a consensus about his draft stock if he leaves after this season.

exactly, yet with another season of cleaning up his game...and selective motor, he could be a Top-15 pick.

I'm hoping the collective feedback after the season will be an unanimous, "you should return to school".

Not sure about NBA scouts opinions, but how could you watch Rui, esp in a practice format, and not be somewhat enticed? 6'8", 230 lbs, a raw frame to add serious muscle without losing mobility, a 7'2" wingspan, 38" vertical, and can dunk from the FT line, and has shown to be unstoppable when he actually crashes the offensive board.

No way.

TexasZagFan
01-06-2018, 08:20 AM
I have news for Monsieur Tillie: better have your engine revved up for every game from here on out. Pros don’t care for players who have a penchant for disappearing in games.

Killian has been Big D’s favorite player for over a year. He was kinda disappointed that he wasn’t there during our visit in July. He did bond with Zach, Josh, Corey, and Jesse. I’m not sure he has a favorite player at this juncture, though Zach and Corey seem to be in the lead.

TexasZagFan
01-06-2018, 08:23 AM
exactly, yet with another season of cleaning up his game...and selective motor, he could be a Top-15 pick.

I'm hoping the collective feedback after the season will be an unanimous, "you should return to school".

Not sure about NBA scouts opinions, but how could you watch Rui, esp in a practice format, and not be somewhat enticed? 6'8", 230 lbs, a raw frame to add serious muscle without losing mobility, a 7'2" wingspan, 38" vertical, and can dunk from the FT line, and has shown to be unstoppable when he actually crashes the offensive board.

No way.

I would think any NBA scout would tip their hands on anyone other than a top 5 pick.

Vanzagger
01-06-2018, 08:31 AM
Yea going to class sucks if your name is Van Zagger
































I’m not saying you shouldn’t go

509er
01-06-2018, 09:01 AM
I don't like to create threads about these topics, but after hearing a 2nd time that Tillie intends to leave after this season.

Much like I was told and subsequently posted NWG was planning to declare before the 2016 season even started. Williams-Goss was gone regardless of last season's stats, accolades, results, etc. It was a one year run no matter the outcome. The plan was to declare from the beginning once he chose Gonzaga. Hard to hear/believe, as NWG is one of my favorite players, persons, and personalities to every don a Zags uni, but that was his plan. To fine tune his game and take it to the next level. I honestly don't believe he expected to fall in love with Gonzaga as much as he did, so his ultimate plan was tough in the end, but it worked out. He's about to win POY/MVP of his Europe-league, and will get another chance at the League next season.

Hearing the exact same thing about Killian. Unlike Collins unexpected departure, the Coaches are at least more aware of Tillie's plans.

Unlike NWG, Killian simply hates school. Not Gonzaga. Loves it here, but just school in general. Also, his family is very committed to his future. He will make a run at the League, if not NBA, then overseas while he's still young, growing, fit, healthy, etc.

I had initially heard this in early November, as I did with NWG, yet thought his laundry list of flaws and quiet games vs top competition quelled these thoughts/endeavors.

After hearing an update this past week, Tillie is gone.

I feel its a mistake. He is just rounding into form as a player, gaining strength, understanding of his own strengths, and discovering his full arsenal of abilities. He will make a team a versatile, utility bench player who can play SF & PF at the next level, and defend SG, SF, & PF. He is still a major work in progress. He isn't listed on ANY NBA boards this season, yet is considered a Lottery pick in 2019. Scouts have taken notice of his length, athleticism, and versatility. Can plug a lot of holes as a bench rotational guy, thus a late 1st Rd or early 2nd for a team's 2nd draft picks would be his landing spot.

As for Rui, no one knows. No word or share, as he doesn't even know what his plans are, or really seem to care. Just enjoying the ride. He loves school, Gonzaga, learning along the way, soaking in all new experiences, and representing his Country. He's not nearly emotionally ready to leave, and is well protected, and cared for at Gonzaga. His role is increasing exponentially as well. If he stays, which is expected, he will explode onto the scene next season.

Anyway, thought to share once again about Tillie. Enjoy him while he is still a player for us. Fun to watch. Still feel he should come off the bench or be paired next to Larsen, but love his game.

You bring something up a I haven't really thought about. Imagine if you weren't really all that into school and then you were required to learn everything in your second or third language while enduring the rigorous of being a D1 athlete. GU has done a remarkable job with finding foreign born players that stick at GU for the full 4-5 years.

bartruff1
01-06-2018, 09:27 AM
Tillie can make millions playing in Europe....he would be nuts to play anymore college ball...

jazzdelmar
01-06-2018, 09:33 AM
He certainly plays that way. Disinterested. Adieu.

kitzbuel
01-06-2018, 09:48 AM
Tillie can make millions playing in Europe....he would be nuts to play anymore college ball...I truly believe he has the talent and skill set to make millions playing in the NBA and be a fixture on the French national team. He just has to make that decision himself.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

bartruff1
01-06-2018, 10:06 AM
Rui expressed a interest in the NBA during a interview on the Mark Few show....he also said Mark was mean !!!! If I heard that right and given his knowledge of English, perhaps he didn't mean that...;) He was smiling...

But in any case.... he would be a super star in Japan and with his personality , a very very wealthy young man...

Basketball is a world game and the NBA maybe A #1..... top of the heap (as Frank would sing) but there are other options that dozens of former Gonzaga players have been able to exploit ....

jazzdelmar
01-06-2018, 10:08 AM
Rui expressed a interest in the NBA during a interview on the Mark Few show....he also said Mark was mean !!!! If I heard that right and given his knowledge of English, perhaps he didn't mean that...;)

But in any case.... he would be a super star in Japan and with his personality , a very very wealthy young man...

No doubt. His endorsement income there would be Peytonian.

Zags11
01-06-2018, 10:16 AM
Sucks. Most hate work. Free scholarship you'd think would help that.

On a real discussion: if this is true, he better get more physical 24/7 and not disappear in games.

Zagdawg
01-06-2018, 10:23 AM
If it comes down to it and we lose Tille and JW3 -- we have Petrusev and Clarke coming in. Clarke will be able to step in and contribute without missing a beat. Petrusev can be brought along a bit slower as he gets up to speed with Division 1 ball (but with the guys he already plays with and against some of the top teams in the country -- he will be closer to ready than we think).

With Larsen and Rui (Jones as an alternate) we will have 4.5 big options.

bartruff1
01-06-2018, 10:28 AM
In the same vein....Perkins has graduated...if he wants to play another year of College Ball...he could go to Harvard and get a MBA or home to Colorado....or really any program in the country that doesn't have Abe !!!!!

thespywhozaggedme
01-06-2018, 10:28 AM
Keep in mind that this time last year ZC wasn't on most mock drafts. If Tillie puts up something around 18 and 8 for the rest of the season he will get drafted. But like some have already said Clarke will take his place immediately next season without any drop off.

Marcus
01-06-2018, 10:33 AM
Rui expressed a interest in the NBA during a interview on the Mark Few show....he also said Mark was mean !!!! If I heard that right and given his knowledge of English, perhaps he didn't mean that...;) He was smiling...

But in any case.... he would be a super star in Japan and with his personality , a very very wealthy young man...

Basketball is a world game and the NBA maybe A #1..... top of the heap (as Frank would sing) but there are other options that dozens of former Gonzaga players have been able to exploit ....

In the interview with Rui he stated that Few was mean on the court by not off. It seemed to me that Rui was implying that Few was really easy to get along with off the court and a nice guy but was really tough and demanding of them in practice and games. He did say it with a smile so I think he meant it in a positive way.

JAGzag
01-06-2018, 10:34 AM
If it comes down to it and we lose Tille and JW3 -- we have Petrusev and Clarke coming in. Clarke will be able to step in and contribute without missing a beat. Petrusev can be brought along a bit slower as he gets up to speed with Division 1 ball (but with the guys he already plays with and against some of the top teams in the country -- he will be closer to ready than we think).

With Larsen and Rui (Jones as an alternate) we will have 4.5 big options.

We really, really need another quality 5 to play next year. Assume Few and company are banking on a grad transfer b/c I'm not aware of any recruits left!

jazzdelmar
01-06-2018, 10:41 AM
In the same vein....Perkins has graduated...if he wants to play another year of College Ball...he could go to Harvard and get a MBA or home to Colorado....or really any program in the country that doesn't have Abe !!!!!

Don’t see tommy amaker and josh coexisting.

jazzdelmar
01-06-2018, 10:42 AM
In the same vein....Perkins has graduated...if he wants to play another year of College Ball...he could go to Harvard and get a MBA or home to Colorado....or really any program in the country that doesn't have Abe !!!!!

Adieu as well.

jazzdelmar
01-06-2018, 10:43 AM
We really, really need another quality 5 to play next year. Assume Few and company are banking on a grad transfer b/c I'm not aware of any recruits left!

Need a pg wayyyyy more.

roxdoc
01-06-2018, 10:49 AM
Re: Tillie In another post I commented upon Tillie's improvement at Pep possibly related to NBA Scout's presence. Look for more of the same tonight at LMU. Next week ???

Club Prez
01-06-2018, 10:58 AM
In the interview with Rui he stated that Few was mean on the court by not off. It seemed to me that Rui was implying that Few was really easy to get along with off the court and a nice guy but was really tough and demanding of them in practice and games. He did say it with a smile so I think he meant it in a positive way.

Bingo!

bartruff1
01-06-2018, 11:45 AM
No doubt. His endorsement income there would be Peytonian.

Off thread, but to the point of personalities and endorsements .....when Arnold Palmer passed a couple years ago, he was worth a estimated $700,000,000....... his total winnings on the PGA Tour, including the Senior Tour were about $ 3,000,000....The medium is the message...

ZagMan in Philly
01-06-2018, 12:34 PM
Tillie can leave, if he can help get Zags to another Final 4. We all know he has the skills. Otherwise plz stay.

SWZag
01-06-2018, 12:42 PM
I read the title incorrectly and glad it didn't say "Tillie hearing is gone." Phew!

Ekrub
01-06-2018, 01:09 PM
Second rounder. Athletic big with tons of upside, this k he will get drafted if he wants to go

JPtheBeasta
01-06-2018, 02:39 PM
Rui expressed a interest in the NBA during a interview on the Mark Few show....he also said Mark was mean !!!! If I heard that right and given his knowledge of English, perhaps he didn't mean that...;) He was smiling...

But in any case.... he would be a super star in Japan and with his personality , a very very wealthy young man...

Basketball is a world game and the NBA maybe A #1..... top of the heap (as Frank would sing) but there are other options that dozens of former Gonzaga players have been able to exploit ....

To be fair, I think he said that Few can be a mean coach but is very nice off the court.

basketballzag
01-06-2018, 05:00 PM
To be fair, I think he said that Few can be a mean coach but is very nice off the court.

Tillie is definitely going to declare (JW3) style but I strongly suspect he will be back next year. He is a lottery pick with a huge guarantee in the 19 draft. Not so much in 2018 as he will be a late 2nd. If I were his family I would call NWG and see if he thinks he made a mistake leaving early.

GoZags
01-06-2018, 05:19 PM
Tillie is definitely going to declare (JW3) style but I strongly suspect he will be back next year. He is a lottery pick with a huge guarantee in the 19 draft. Not so much in 2018 as he will be a late 2nd. If I were his family I would call NWG and see if he thinks he made a mistake leaving early.

This makes sense to me.

Kiddwell
01-06-2018, 05:32 PM
Sure seems like Killian would come back one more year to play with his countryman. Wonder whether he & Joel talked about this during Joel’s recruitment. Sure think their pairing up on a nationally ranked team would be big sports news back in France.



:]

OntZags
01-06-2018, 05:39 PM
Tillie is definitely going to declare (JW3) style but I strongly suspect he will be back next year. He is a lottery pick with a huge guarantee in the 19 draft. Not so much in 2018 as he will be a late 2nd. If I were his family I would call NWG and see if he thinks he made a mistake leaving early.

NWG is making hundreds of thousands of dollars playing professionally. While I'm sure he still would have loved another crack at a NC, you can't blame the guy for going.

A lot of people here really seem to forget about basic economic principles like opportunity cost. Especially if you are a fringe NBA guy (which NWG always would be, whether he came back or not), forgoing a year a salary is a pretty big deal. Especially once you've graduated.

College isn't for everyone. If the rumours are true re: Tillie & college than I would be a lot less certain. Whether he gets drafted or not, he would be *highly* sought after by all the major clubs in Europe and would be in line to make serious money next year. (& get to focus 100% on basketball. Staying in college is not necessarily the optimal route for developing as a player.)

Also - while this draft is strong at the top - it isn't that deep. Tillie could definitely still land in the first round, possibly even pushing late lottery. A lot depends on how he performs the rest of the way and especially once you start working out directly out for teams.

raise the zag
01-06-2018, 05:44 PM
Tillie is definitely going to declare (JW3) style but I strongly suspect he will be back next year. He is a lottery pick with a huge guarantee in the 19 draft. Not so much in 2018 as he will be a late 2nd. If I were his family I would call NWG and see if he thinks he made a mistake leaving early.

NWG is absolutely owning his Euro league.

He is in the running for POY in the 3rd best b-ball league in the World.

He also received a pretty big bonus recently, as a thank you for his amazing play. Just bought both his parents new cars this past week.

He is doing very well and will receive a sizable contract if he continues this type of play.

Averaging 19ppg, 8.5 app, 6 rpg

willandi
01-06-2018, 06:32 PM
NWG is making hundreds of thousands of dollars playing professionally. While I'm sure he still would have loved another crack at a NC, you can't blame the guy for going.

A lot of people here really seem to forget about basic economic principles like opportunity cost. Especially if you are a fringe NBA guy (which NWG always would be, whether he came back or not), forgoing a year a salary is a pretty big deal. Especially once you've graduated.

College isn't for everyone. If the rumours are true re: Tillie & college than I would be a lot less certain. Whether he gets drafted or not, he would be *highly* sought after by all the major clubs in Europe and would be in line to make serious money next year. (& get to focus 100% on basketball. Staying in college is not necessarily the optimal route for developing as a player.)

Also - while this draft is strong at the top - it isn't that deep. Tillie could definitely still land in the first round, possibly even pushing late lottery. A lot depends on how he performs the rest of the way and especially once you start working out directly out for teams.


NWG is absolutely owning his Euro league.

He is in the running for POY in the 3rd best b-ball league in the World.

He also received a pretty big bonus recently, as a thank you for his amazing play. Just bought both his parents new cars this past week.

He is doing very well and will receive a sizable contract if he continues this type of play.

Averaging 19ppg, 8.5 app, 6 rpg

True, and maybe it will get him to the NBA. That is where he wants to be. Always prove yourself against the best. Playing in Europe is great, but every Zag playing there would rather have been/be in the NBA...even for a little less money. IMO

CDC84
01-06-2018, 08:24 PM
If Tillie leaves, it will be to go back home, because he is not on Jonathan Givony's mock list for 2018, and he is not getting any better this season.....unlike Zach Collins last season who kept on getting better and better.

Tillie has almost no half court offensive moves right now that can be relied upon. It's partly why JWIII is being overworked.

bartruff1
01-06-2018, 08:26 PM
I don't see any NBA players on this team....but I see a lot that will play for big money...

thespywhozaggedme
01-06-2018, 08:37 PM
I don't see any NBA players on this team....but I see a lot that will play for big money...

Rui is a LOCK to play in the NBA.

CDC84
01-06-2018, 08:43 PM
They will draft Rui, even at 57, for this athleticism, height and length alone.

Zagdawg
01-06-2018, 08:47 PM
The team that drafts Rui is going to get the entire Japanese market/fanbase -- a team will draft him just for that opportunity.

TexasZagFan
01-06-2018, 09:24 PM
The team that drafts Rui is going to get the entire Japanese market/fanbase -- a team will draft him just for that opportunity.

You know Mark Cuban has his eyes on that market. Sign Boogie, draft Rui, and you’ve got something in your front court.

Zags11
01-07-2018, 01:18 AM
One star thread.


Stay consistent GU Board.

jyboc
01-07-2018, 10:33 AM
“Unlike NWG, Killian simply hates school. Not Gonzaga. Loves it here, but just school in general.”

I have heard this a few times on here, but is it true? Who has sat and had a face to face conversation with him about this? Has there ever been a quote from KT regarding this? Or is everyone just speculating based on someone’s opinion of him?

Birddog
01-07-2018, 10:45 AM
“Unlike NWG, Killian simply hates school. Not Gonzaga. Loves it here, but just school in general.”

I have heard this a few times on here, but is it true? Who has sat and had a face to face conversation with him about this? Has there ever been a quote from KT regarding this? Or is everyone just speculating based on someone’s opinion of him?

Aw c'mon are you serious? This IS the internet after all.

whatazag
01-07-2018, 11:06 AM
This has been the rumor for a while, so not surprised. Love what Tillie brings to the team, but if he does leave I just hope Josh and Rui come back or we could be looking at a pretty big dropoff next year.

siliconzag
01-07-2018, 11:42 AM
I remember well, as a young Seattle U fan when Elgin Baylor declared for the NBA draft as a Junior, in this he may have been a trailblazer. It was not received well by all the young Catholic boys in Seattle, few that we were. Elgin was the Michael Jordan of the era. He played above the rim. He rebounded, he made incredible shots, he made his free throws and he was nice. But he left Seattle U before they had the opportunity to win the NCAA, which they undoubtedly would have the year following their close loss to Kentucky in the finals of l958.

Zag fans have been disappointed on numerous occasions by young men who have made the same choice, to abandon their academic career for early fortune. I can't remember them all, nor do I want to, since they are all too well known to the faithful on this board. I find it sad, that this trend is becoming more prevalent. Perhaps the most grotesque example, being, the sons of LaVar Ball, who have exploited college basketball, as a training ground for their professional futures.

The new realities, the capitalism and greed on both sides (the owners in the NBA and the players) has diminished the integrity of intercollegiate athletics. Yet it is the new order of things. The one brief shining moment for me, personally was when my boy hero, Doug McDermott, announced that he would forgo the NBA draft after his amazing junior year, and said, "I am young, I want to be with my buddies, I want to play another year before the Bluejay fans that have been so kind to me." Good on him, and all those young men who decide to stick it out, to get an education, which is after all, the purpose of going to college.

Anyway it seems to me, when recruiting elite young athletes, if it is at all possible, it would be great to find young men who really want to be educated as well as to capitalize on their talents. But I admit to being an old fuddy duddy. And I do so, without apologies.

Bouldin4Prez
01-07-2018, 11:48 AM
Why does everyone on this board think that coming back for another year of college means he will suddenly develop into a lottery pick? Even if he gets drafted with the 50th pick in the draft, his game will develop much quicker in the NBA G-League or sitting on NBA bench than it will from playing another year of college basketball. The biggest difference is if you lose focus in the NBA, no one is there to pick you up and push you like there is in college. Goes from a family atmosphere to a complete business. If that's what he wants, then go ahead. Some guys enjoy the camaraderie of being on a college team and others want to just go make money. I don't fault a guy either way. The misconception that guys that would get drafted late one year and then suddenly jump way up the board the next year is ridiculous. Happens few and far between. In general, the longer you stay in college, the worse off you are since the scouts shift their perspective form potential to actual ability.

MileHigh
01-07-2018, 12:01 PM
Why does everyone on this board think that coming back for another year of college means he will suddenly develop into a lottery pick? Even if he gets drafted with the 50th pick in the draft, his game will develop much quicker in the NBA G-League or sitting on NBA bench than it will from playing another year of college basketball. The biggest difference is if you lose focus in the NBA, no one is there to pick you up and push you like there is in college. Goes from a family atmosphere to a complete business. If that's what he wants, then go ahead. Some guys enjoy the camaraderie of being on a college team and others want to just go make money. I don't fault a guy either way. The misconception that guys that would get drafted late one year and then suddenly jump way up the board the next year is ridiculous. Happens few and far between. In general, the longer you stay in college, the worse off you are since the scouts shift their perspective form potential to actual ability.

Yep. It actually works the other way more often. Guys projected as late first or early second stay another year and drop to late 2nd or UFA

thespywhozaggedme
01-07-2018, 12:02 PM
I remember well, as a young Seattle U fan when Elgin Baylor declared for the NBA draft as a Junior, in this he may have been a trailblazer. It was not received well by all the young Catholic boys in Seattle, few that we were. Elgin was the Michael Jordan of the era. He played above the rim. He rebounded, he made incredible shots, he made his free throws and he was nice. But he left Seattle U before they had the opportunity to win the NCAA, which they undoubtedly would have the year following their close loss to Kentucky in the finals of l958.

Zag fans have been disappointed on numerous occasions by young men who have made the same choice, to abandon their academic career for early fortune. I can't remember them all, nor do I want to, since they are all too well known to the faithful on this board. I find it sad, that this trend is becoming more prevalent. Perhaps the most grotesque example, being, the sons of LaVar Ball, who have exploited college basketball, as a training ground for their professional futures.

The new realities, the capitalism and greed on both sides (the owners in the NBA and the players) has diminished the integrity of intercollegiate athletics. Yet it is the new order of things. The one brief shining moment for me, personally was when my boy hero, Doug McDermott, announced that he would forgo the NBA draft after his amazing junior year, and said, "I am young, I want to be with my buddies, I want to play another year before the Bluejay fans that have been so kind to me." Good on him, and all those young men who decide to stick it out, to get an education, which is after all, the purpose of going to college.

Anyway it seems to me, when recruiting elite young athletes, if it is at all possible, it would be great to find young men who really want to be educated as well as to capitalize on their talents. But I admit to being an old fuddy duddy. And I do so, without apologies.

You don't sound like a fuddy-duddy you just sound like someone who is intolerant of someone that has an opinion that differs from your own.

TexasZagFan
01-07-2018, 12:15 PM
You don't sound like a fuddy-duddy you just sound like someone who is intolerant of someone that has an opinion that differs from your own.

Speaking as one who had many verbal jousts with Sili, I think you’re incorrect in your assessment. “Intolerant” is not an adjective I would ever ascribe to him.

I’ll just leave it at that.

MileHigh
01-07-2018, 12:41 PM
who decide to stick it out, to get an education, which is after all, the purpose of going to college.



Is getting an "education" really why most young men go to college, or is it to become employable? I know I went to college and grad school, not for the "education" but to be better able to make a living. I could not have cared less about the "education" I received and what I actually learned, I just wanted that sheepskin to hang on my wall and list on my resume. How are the athletes that go to college with the goal of becoming employable in their chosen profession (basketball) any different than those millions of college students that have matriculated so that they could get a better job as accountants,engineers, or lawyers? If a Big 8 accounting firm offers a college soph a job to leave early and tells them you will get paid as much as a partner and never have to graduate from college wouldn't he be a fool to stay?

amaronizag
01-07-2018, 12:53 PM
Lots of different views and personal preferences here among board members and student athletes. Personally, if I didn't have reasonable certainty that I would be drafted into the NBA, I would either stay in school OR go play in Europe OR stay in school and then go play in Europe after I graduated. I can't stand the NBA D League games, the mentality, player attitudes, or high school gyms. Can't imagine anything more depressing. Europe is like Disneyland for basketball players. What a great way to spend a few years of your young life, working hard, staying in great shape, and getting paid really good money to play basketball and travel around Europe. WOW, sign me up.

bartruff1
01-07-2018, 01:00 PM
You can always get a education, a athlete can only compete at the professional level for 15 years or less....so every year they don't get paid is a lost opportunity...if you want to reach your full potential you have to compete against the best possible athletes in your field....that is not in college... imho of course...

Zagceo
01-07-2018, 01:06 PM
You can always get a education, a athlete can only compete at the professional level for 15 years or less....so every year they don't get paid is a lost opportunity...if you want to reach your full potential you have to compete against the best possible athletes in your field....that is not in college... imho of course...

just made the number 1 argument used against Zags when recruiting...according to Coaches

Mantua
01-07-2018, 01:07 PM
You can always get a education, a athlete can only compete at the professional level for 15 years or less....so every year they don't get paid is a lost opportunity...if you want to reach your full potential you have to compete against the best possible athletes in your field....that is not in college... imho of course...

That certainly applied to Domantis Sabonis but he worked hard while he was at GU. I expected KT to show a little more commitment to his game this year if nothing else.

Ezag
01-07-2018, 01:08 PM
Tillie is not even close to Sabonis at this stage which by the way Sabonis has been tearing it up this year in the NBA. He looks like he did his last season here.

Mantua
01-07-2018, 01:17 PM
Tillie is not even close to Sabonis at this stage which by the way Sabonis has been tearing it up this year in the NBA. He looks like he did his last season here.

Sabonis had a positive effect on team chemistry while he was here. This year’s team doesn’t seem as connected as most past teams. One player’s discontent can make quite an impact on the rest of the team.

Zagceo
01-07-2018, 01:46 PM
Sabonis had a positive effect on team chemistry while he was here. This year’s team doesn’t seem as connected as most past teams. One player’s discontent can make quite an impact on the rest of the team.

huge Domo fan huge Pangos fan.... but remember going 15-3 in 2013-14 and needing to win Vegas to go dancing

The current Zag team is the most physically gifted team top to bottom in the history of the program IMO....IF they can unite we could get to San Antonio or get bumped opening game based on no show games like Nova or Aztecs. I'm interested in how they will handle BYU crowd not so much the players

IrishZag
01-07-2018, 01:50 PM
Why on earth would we begrudge a kid for pursuing an opportunity to apply his trade and maximize his earning potential in basketball?

Killian has a few elite athletic abilities that will help him to succeed at the next level.
1. Exceptionally quick vertical leaping ability – Which allows him to excel at blocking, rebounding, and his exceptionally quick second jump for rebounds and putbacks in traffic.
2. Lateral agility and quickness – Which helps him stay in front of driving defenders and puts him in position for blocks and steals.
3. Elite speed for a big man – To run the floor for transition baskets and d.

All three of these abilities are finite resources that have a ~10 year limit when he can maximize them. With every knee, ankle, and hip injury he sustains, it chips away at the ability and bring him blow that super natural level necessary to compete in the NBA. The average NBA career is 4.8 years, so you gotta get that cash when you can.

Just ask Dickau (Achilles), Blake (Knee), Ammo (Knee) and Hytvelt (Foot) how much their injuries impacted their earning potential.

Could Killian stay another year to refine his post game, develop a more consistent jumper, and clean up his foul trouble issues? Sure. But he will be able to do that in NBA or in Europe with better coaches, against better talent, where it'll be 100% of his focus. Absolutely, and he will be getting guaranteed money to do so. If he stays another year, he might improve his draft stock and first contract, but there's also the risk that he decreases his stock and falls of the boards as scouts get more tape or injury history to evaluate (see Elias Harris, Grayson Allen).

Taking the long view, we should all be delighted if Killian goes pros early. Most kids dream of playing in the professional basketball first and foremost. The more players we send to the NBA with a proven track record, the better our recruiting gets. Ask Duke, UNC and Kentucky how that works.

Zagceo
01-07-2018, 02:01 PM
like coaches say about recruiting....fans mostly in the dark

same darkness in players decisions when it comes to career choices IMO

MileHigh
01-07-2018, 02:03 PM
Lots of different views and personal preferences here among board members and student athletes. Personally, if I didn't have reasonable certainty that I would be drafted into the NBA, I would either stay in school OR go play in Europe OR stay in school and then go play in Europe after I graduated. I can't stand the NBA D League games, the mentality, player attitudes, or high school gyms. Can't imagine anything more depressing. Europe is like Disneyland for basketball players. What a great way to spend a few years of your young life, working hard, staying in great shape, and getting paid really good money to play basketball and travel around Europe. WOW, sign me up.

Disneyland for some maybe, something a lot less fun for others. I know a dozen or so guys that are playing, or have recently played pro overseas and the experiences are as different as you can imagine. At the highest level, In the top leagues it is everything you suggest. For others (the majority of those I know) there are stories of getting paid late, or not at all, horrible gyms and nasty fans. I talked this week with a kid who was playing in same league as NWG. He told me of 12 hour bus rides, gyms where all the spectators are smoking cigarettes and you can barely breathe, and not being able to go out at night because they were losing a lot of games and the locals would curse them out. For an American, you have to be a star and play like a star or they will release you with no notice and you will have to fight them to get the rest of your money. This kid was making about 3500 a week and had a free apartment and free meals so the money was pretty good, but everything else was not what he expected

Zags11
01-07-2018, 03:27 PM
Disneyland for some maybe, something a lot less fun for others. I know a dozen or so guys that are playing, or have recently played pro overseas and the experiences are as different as you can imagine. At the highest level, In the top leagues it is everything you suggest. For others (the majority of those I know) there are stories of getting paid late, or not at all, horrible gyms and nasty fans. I talked this week with a kid who was playing in same league as NWG. He told me of 12 hour bus rides, gyms where all the spectators are smoking cigarettes and you can barely breathe, and not being able to go out at night because they were losing a lot of games and the locals would curse them out. For an American, you have to be a star and play like a star or they will release you with no notice and you will have to fight them to get the rest of your money. This kid was making about 3500 a week and had a free apartment and free meals so the money was pretty good, but everything else was not what he expected

Just like hockey players overseas.

All Weather Fan
01-07-2018, 04:33 PM
What Irish Zag said......................
Great post !

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-07-2018, 04:51 PM
Why on earth would we begrudge a kid for pursuing an opportunity to apply his trade and maximize his earning potential in basketball?

Killian has a few elite athletic abilities that will help him to succeed at the next level.
1. Exceptionally quick vertical leaping ability – Which allows him to excel at blocking, rebounding, and his exceptionally quick second jump for rebounds and putbacks in traffic.
2. Lateral agility and quickness – Which helps him stay in front of driving defenders and puts him in position for blocks and steals.
3. Elite speed for a big man – To run the floor for transition baskets and d.

All three of these abilities are finite resources that have a ~10 year limit when he can maximize them. With every knee, ankle, and hip injury he sustains, it chips away at the ability and bring him blow that super natural level necessary to compete in the NBA. The average NBA career is 4.8 years, so you gotta get that cash when you can.

Just ask Dickau (Achilles), Blake (Knee), Ammo (Knee) and Hytvelt (Foot) how much their injuries impacted their earning potential.

Could Killian stay another year to refine his post game, develop a more consistent jumper, and clean up his foul trouble issues? Sure. But he will be able to do that in NBA or in Europe with better coaches, against better talent, where it'll be 100% of his focus. Absolutely, and he will be getting guaranteed money to do so. If he stays another year, he might improve his draft stock and first contract, but there's also the risk that he decreases his stock and falls of the boards as scouts get more tape or injury history to evaluate (see Elias Harris, Grayson Allen).

Taking the long view, we should all be delighted if Killian goes pros early. Most kids dream of playing in the professional basketball first and foremost. The more players we send to the NBA with a proven track record, the better our recruiting gets. Ask Duke, UNC and Kentucky how that works.

Agree with everything you’ve said here IrishZag but as a lifelong college hoops fan who doesn’t enjoy watching the NBA, I will always long for the days of four-five year players rather than more and more 1 or 2 years and go pro type players. Again, I agree with you it is the student athlete’s right to choose to maximize their limited earning potential as professional players, but that’s not the college hoops scene I like. I miss the days when leaving early to go pro was very rare.

GU69
01-07-2018, 06:34 PM
Agree with everything you’ve said here IrishZag but as a lifelong college hoops fan who doesn’t enjoy watching the NBA, I will always long for the days of four-five year players rather than more and more 1 or 2 years and go pro type players. Again, I agree with you it is the student athlete’s right to choose to maximize their limited earning potential as professional players, but that’s not the college hoops scene I like. I miss the days when leaving early to go pro was very rare.

Yup. I'm with you on this completely. As a fan, part of what I enjoyed was watching players for four years and seeing them grow, develop, and mature. By the time they graduated I would feel very attached to them. With the one or two year players it seems like I barely know who they are and they are gone.

hooter73
01-07-2018, 08:02 PM
7 and 6 in 26 minutes isn’t bad by any means but for a starter against a team like lmu, those are not nba drafting stats. If he hates school so much then he had better know what it means to leave.

CDC84
01-07-2018, 08:16 PM
Until Tillie appears on a reliable 2018 mock list (like Givony's), I remain super speculative. Unless he just wants to start banking money in Europe right away, which cannot be ruled out.

hooter73
01-07-2018, 08:38 PM
That’s pretty much what I hear. Euro players don’t go to the nba.

CDC84
01-08-2018, 01:11 AM
Agree with everything you’ve said here IrishZag but as a lifelong college hoops fan who doesn’t enjoy watching the NBA, I will always long for the days of four-five year players rather than more and more 1 or 2 years and go pro type players. Again, I agree with you it is the student athlete’s right to choose to maximize their limited earning potential as professional players, but that’s not the college hoops scene I like. I miss the days when leaving early to go pro was very rare.

What you and I long for are the days before the NBA rookie salary cap was introduced in the mid-1990's. Back then, almost everyone played 3-4 years. Because players wouldn't dare to bolt early unless they knew for certain, thru market forces, that they could land a huge deal. Nothing was promised by the league. It's the way it should be. If you want to bolt after 1 year, that should be your right, but teams should have the right to pay you what THEY want to according to your value. The rookie salary cap is an awful rule that has really hurt basketball at all levels. Everyone who is fighting about the age limit needs to pay more attention to the impact of the rookie salary cap on the game. If we didn't have it, the people who hate the age limit would get what they want, but the people who like the age limit would end up getting what they want because the lack of a cap would serve as an economic incentive for kids to stay in college or to go to college.

MileHigh
01-08-2018, 04:39 AM
What you and I long for are the days before the NBA rookie salary cap was introduced in the mid-1990's. Back then, almost everyone played 3-4 years. Because players wouldn't dare to bolt early unless they knew for certain, thru market forces, that they could land a huge deal. Nothing was promised by the league. It's the way it should be. If you want to bolt after 1 year, that should be your right, but teams should have the right to pay you what THEY want to according to your value. The rookie salary cap is an awful rule that has really hurt basketball at all levels. Everyone who is fighting about the age limit needs to pay more attention to the impact of the rookie salary cap on the game. If we didn't have it, the people who hate the age limit would get what they want, but the people who like the age limit would end up getting what they want because the lack of a cap would serve as an economic incentive for kids to stay in college or to go to college.

Doesn't the rookie salary cap artificially suppress salaries? If memory serves me, prior to the slotted salaries they have now, rookies made a lot more (as a percentage in relation to the vets) than they do now. Are you saying the late first round guys that are guaranteed money now, would have no guarantees back then so they would wait?

webspinnre
01-08-2018, 07:32 AM
I remember well, as a young Seattle U fan when Elgin Baylor declared for the NBA draft as a Junior, in this he may have been a trailblazer. It was not received well by all the young Catholic boys in Seattle, few that we were. Elgin was the Michael Jordan of the era. He played above the rim. He rebounded, he made incredible shots, he made his free throws and he was nice. But he left Seattle U before they had the opportunity to win the NCAA, which they undoubtedly would have the year following their close loss to Kentucky in the finals of l958.

Zag fans have been disappointed on numerous occasions by young men who have made the same choice, to abandon their academic career for early fortune. I can't remember them all, nor do I want to, since they are all too well known to the faithful on this board. I find it sad, that this trend is becoming more prevalent. Perhaps the most grotesque example, being, the sons of LaVar Ball, who have exploited college basketball, as a training ground for their professional futures.

The new realities, the capitalism and greed on both sides (the owners in the NBA and the players) has diminished the integrity of intercollegiate athletics. Yet it is the new order of things. The one brief shining moment for me, personally was when my boy hero, Doug McDermott, announced that he would forgo the NBA draft after his amazing junior year, and said, "I am young, I want to be with my buddies, I want to play another year before the Bluejay fans that have been so kind to me." Good on him, and all those young men who decide to stick it out, to get an education, which is after all, the purpose of going to college.

Anyway it seems to me, when recruiting elite young athletes, if it is at all possible, it would be great to find young men who really want to be educated as well as to capitalize on their talents. But I admit to being an old fuddy duddy. And I do so, without apologies.

Sili lives! It's unfortunate, but this is the way this goes these days. I think MileHigh makes the correct observation that college is no longer about education for many, but about employability. If so, and if a player reaches maximum employability, then they've filled their goals, whether or not they've attained a degree. If it's any consolation, I'm a younger fuddy duddy.

bartruff1
01-08-2018, 07:37 AM
Not me....I went to avoid the draft....to party...and to get laid.....well, two out of three is not bad...

Zags_Fanatic
01-08-2018, 09:40 AM
Interesting mock from Sam Vecenie at The Athletic came out today: https://theathletic.com/205405/2018/01/08/2018-nba-mock-draft-doncic-and-ayton-emerge-as-1a-and-1b/

Selfishly I hope that Tillie will see the value in making it through one more year of classes to develop and reach his potential as a possible lottery pick after next season, but he is squarely on the radar of some very well respected evaluators.


34. Brooklyn Nets (via Magic): Killian Tillie — 6-10, 215 pounds; Gonzaga, So.
I personally have Tillie higher on my board than this. He’s possibly the highest-IQ big in this class, an absolutely terrific defender both on the perimeter and at the rim who can also pass the heck out of the ball and knock down shots from 3. That’s the perfect player for anyone, but particularly for what Kenny Atkinson wants from bigs.

CDC84
01-08-2018, 10:02 AM
Doesn't the rookie salary cap artificially suppress salaries? If memory serves me, prior to the slotted salaries they have now, rookies made a lot more (as a percentage in relation to the vets) than they do now. Are you saying the late first round guys that are guaranteed money now, would have no guarantees back then so they would wait?

Yes. Everyone got paid more back then if you were proven. There was an economic incentive to stay in school until you developed into the best prospect you could be.

Lottery picks made way more base salary back then. In 1990, Larry Johnson of UNLV had a chance to bolt after his junior year, but he returned to Vegas. His overall game improved, UNLV went unbeaten during the regular season, he swept every national player of the year award. He ended up getting picked #1 by the Hornets for a 2 year deal that no one would get now. Because he was so well trained and talented, he became an instant all star. Two years later, he signed an extension......the biggest contract in NBA history.

The reason why you rarely saw kids come out of high school to play in the pros back then is that teams were not willing to invest money on unproven talent. It was too financially risky for the player and the team. The rookie salary cap limits that risk.

It was a much, much better system back then. There was no such as thing as "drafting on potential." You had to "prove it" to get the money. And if you "proved it," you got more of it earlier in your NBA career.

College basketball was a different game back in 1991. The players were men, not boys. These two teams played in the 1990 final four. All the upperclassmen came back for the 1990/91 season:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8JmUVldKKA

CDC84
01-08-2018, 10:04 AM
Sam Vecenie is pretty good......so now I wonder...........

Especially if Tillie shows well in the dance.