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kitzbuel
12-31-2017, 11:44 AM
Blanchetteís article brings up the prospect of an unbalanced schedule again and I think it is worth considering as we enter the doldrums of conference play.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/30/john-blanchette-gonzagas-latest-rout-shows-why-con/#/0

I like the concept and think it needs to be really considered. We have discussed the concept of relegation before in this forum and I like it. It puts relevance in the games that the bottom half plays and will incentivize coaches. If teams want to keep GU, SMC and top teams on their schedule and keep that revenue, they are going to have to earn it on the court. There is nothing like desperation to instill competition. Every bottom half team will be looking to snag wins wherever and whenever it can.

It is then up to each team as to what it does with those extra two games. Teams trying to build can schedule confidence builders and better tool a schedule for their needs. Top half teams can get some additional resume builders and insert some much needed RPI points back into the conference mid-season.

It is a viable option to changing conferences and would be for the good of the conference.

MDABE80
12-31-2017, 12:09 PM
It's a very good thought Kitz. Blanchette's got his thinking cap on.

whatazag
12-31-2017, 12:19 PM
Anyone well connected on this board have insight into what possible reason there was for adding Pacific to the WCC? They don't appear to bring anything to the table, and just adding a school so we have an even number of teams seems really dumb.

ZagsGoZags
12-31-2017, 01:05 PM
seems like there are a couple of threads currently running on this topic

bigblahla
12-31-2017, 01:11 PM
Anyone well connected on this board have insight into what possible reason there was for adding Pacific to the WCC? They don't appear to bring anything to the table, and just adding a school so we have an even number of teams seems really dumb.

I once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express - The Z-man's mentor was Tiger Ted who wanted to change conferences.....it's that simple...it's a who you know world.

Go!! Zags!!!

bballbeachbum
12-31-2017, 01:16 PM
It's a very good thought Kitz. Blanchette's got his thinking cap on.

agreed :)

bartruff1
12-31-2017, 01:22 PM
Not going to happen....IMHO of course...

jazzdelmar
12-31-2017, 01:29 PM
No way unless GU asserts itself. And that’s out of character.

kitzbuel
12-31-2017, 01:52 PM
Not going to happen....IMHO of course...Change doesn't start unless someone provides an impetus...IMHO of course.

Someone decided to let Pacific and BYU in the conference, so clearly changes to the conference can be made.

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sittingon50
12-31-2017, 01:56 PM
Anyone well connected on this board have insight into what possible reason there was for adding Pacific to the WCC? They don't appear to bring anything to the table, and just adding a school so we have an even number of teams seems really dumb.

Not well connected, but it is basically a Calif. league & SMC, USF & SCU added a game that they can get to on a bus, not a plane.

bartruff1
12-31-2017, 02:05 PM
I love Pacific ...they beat BYU in Provo....

In the first place, none of the other schools will want to give up a game with Gonzaga or the Gaels or BYU or their geographical rivals .....and in the second place, the only way to have a undisputed conference champion is for all the teams to play all the teams at home and away...

kitzbuel
12-31-2017, 02:13 PM
I love Pacific ...they beat BYU in Provo....

In the first place, none of the other schools will want to give up a game with Gonzaga or the Gaels or BYU or their geographical rivals .....and in the second place, the only way to have a undisputed conference champion is for all the teams to play all the teams at home and away...Conference champion is determined in Vegas, not on the home courts of the sub-500 conference teams.

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bartruff1
12-31-2017, 02:16 PM
Conference champion is determined in Vegas, not on the home courts of the sub-500 conference teams.

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I believe the Conference Champion is decided in league play and all the games count 1 ....the Tournament Champion is decided in Vegas...

509er
12-31-2017, 03:16 PM
No way unless GU asserts itself. And that’s out of character.

What does this look like? Unless they have another conference to go to in their back pocket as a threat it seems they are just along for the ride assuming the conference makes changes with majority rule.

kitzbuel
12-31-2017, 03:24 PM
I believe the Conference Champion is decided in league play and all the games count 1 ....the Tournament Champion is decided in Vegas...Semantics aside, the Conference Champion is awarded the autobid which is awarded at Vegas.

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Kiddwell
12-31-2017, 03:36 PM
I love Pacific ...they beat BYU in Provo....

In the first place, none of the other schools will want to give up a game with Gonzaga or the Gaels or BYU or their geographical rivals .....and in the second place, the only way to have a undisputed conference champion is for all the teams to play all the teams at home and away...

Kiddwell likes Pacific too. Prior to joining the WCC they had some pretty good teams. This fan thinks they can be/will be more than relevant. I like Stoudamire. He's starting in Stockton with a disadvantage. The school's on probation, has only eight scholarship players. That's out of a possible 13. Despite that disadvantage they're about midway in the WCC's rankings right now.



:]

bartruff1
12-31-2017, 03:37 PM
Semantics aside, the Conference Champion is awarded the autobid which is awarded at Vegas.

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That is not semantics at all....that simply begging the issue...it is a demonstrable fact...the Conference Championship is decided in League play....go ahead and try it...." I was wrong "......

kitzbuel
12-31-2017, 03:56 PM
Rightght now the regular season means nothing. All the marbles are played for in Vegas.

I think a review of the way the conference plays, vis a vis Mr. Blanchette's proposition, could instill value in the regular season and make these games worth watching.

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bartruff1
12-31-2017, 04:11 PM
Nonsense....the automatic bid would still go to the Tournament Champion...and the Conference Championship would always be in dispute .....Happy New Year...

ZagsGoZags
12-31-2017, 10:26 PM
The pac12 football champion is dispute I imagine, because the north and south champs play for the Pac12 championship. For us its a separate championship. Zags have one record for conference champion (which has been tied with SMC), and a separate record for the # of Tournaments they won, however, that one is more important because that team Dances even if it was a losing team in league play.

Kemo 1966
01-01-2018, 01:11 AM
Let me play devils advocate.... first off, the WCC dates back to 1952....Pacific was an ORIGINAL MEMBER. Was quite competitive at a time when UCLA was dominating the West Coast. Of course you would know this if you looked beyond (1999)... USF, Santa Clara and Pacific had some great teams and programs.... Football ran UOP's 'extra curricular' sports teams (Money).... since member institutions were small... they dropped football.... too expensive ....hence, Pacific had to move to keep football. (Much like what is now happening with BYU... they are looking for a 'football conference'..... Now, let's talk about scheduling.... you want to upgrade your schedule ...... Below are two current WCC teams OOC schedule....#'s are Pomeroy's, as of 1/1/2018;

Team A, played #1,#29, #32, #35, #48,#57, #112, #154, #208, #275, #276, #312, #331.

Team B played #19, #30, #74, #113, #133, #162 (2), #185, #219, #244,#265, and #347!

There are 355 or so Div 1 schools....let us say you shouldn't schedule anyone below 75% or #266, for 'YOUR RPI SAKE! (i.e. #266-355).

Notice Team A scheduled 4 'BOTTOM FEEDERS' while Team B, only had one bottom feeder. Should we penalize Team A????????????

By the way, in the above scenario, Team A is GONZAGA; team B is The UNIVERSITY OF PACIFIC.

Bogozags
01-01-2018, 06:10 AM
Let me play devils advocate.... first off, the WCC dates back to 1952....Pacific was an ORIGINAL MEMBER. Was quite competitive at a time when UCLA was dominating the West Coast. Of course you would know this if you looked beyond (1999)... USF, Santa Clara and Pacific had some great teams and programs.... Football ran UOP's 'extra curricular' sports teams (Money).... since member institutions were small... they dropped football.... too expensive ....hence, Pacific had to move to keep football. (Much like what is now happening with BYU... they are looking for a 'football conference'..... Now, let's talk about scheduling.... you want to upgrade your schedule ...... Below are two current WCC teams OOC schedule....#'s are Pomeroy's, as of 1/1/2018;

Team A, played #1,#29, #32, #35, #48,#57, #112, #154, #208, #275, #276, #312, #331.

Team B played #19, #30, #74, #113, #133, #162 (2), #185, #219, #244,#265, and #347!

There are 355 or so Div 1 schools....let us say you shouldn't schedule anyone below 75% or #266, for 'YOUR RPI SAKE! (i.e. #266-355).

Notice Team A scheduled 4 'BOTTOM FEEDERS' while Team B, only had one bottom feeder. Should we penalize Team A????????????

By the way, in the above scenario, Team A is GONZAGA; team B is The UNIVERSITY OF PACIFIC.


FIRST OFF HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!



Kemo, you are absolutely correct...UOP was relevant and can be again...

The John Ginanilli(?) teams were extremely tough and if memory serves, lost to a UCLA team by a bucket in the regionals. Re-admitting UOP to WCC can be questioned but they are here and when we travel to Stockton the game will be much, much closer...even with just eight scholarship players...


With regards to the unbalanced scheduled...I supported this idea on other previous threads and still think it is very workable BUT you have to get SCU, USF, LMU, P, UOP, UP and USD to agree...or at least three of those schools, because I firmly believe BYU, SMC and GU would all agree...

North Division: GU, UP, BYU, SMC*, and UOP
Southern Division: SCU, USF, P, LMU and USD

* If an unbalanced schedule ever comes to fruition, then more than likely they will put SMC in the Southern Division.

As far as leverage...I still think that there is an option of moving to another conference - the MWC. WHAT? Are you kidding? That is a football conference! They would never even consider GU!
OK, I beg to differ...

They have 11 schools (plus UH for football = 12) in that conference and yes they all play football but adding GU would balance out their schedule for all their sports because UH only plays football. I don't know if there has been any conversations between MW and GU but until the BE comes to "their senses" and invites GU, this is a viable answer. GU brings all its teams into the MW...traveling to four other states (NM, CO, NV and ID) on a regular basis for visibility...in addition, MW has within the last few years sent FOUR teams to the Dance and this year they have FOUR teams with better RPI's than GU. Currently, they play an 18 game unbalanced conference schedule Adding GU would allow them to continue playing an unbalanced schedule but only 16 games vice 18, which is what they currently play!

Ok, maybe none of this happens, which is more than likely the case but for GU, SMC and BYU to have a better opportunity to improve their RPI/BPI having an unbalanced schedule affords them the opportunity to play two more OOC games to pad their resume...

(I have always liked the idea of GU moving to the MW but I think that the MW is still holding out on BYU's return...JMHO)

Kemo 1966
01-01-2018, 08:26 AM
Happy New Year !

I guess I didn't read the article close enough...split divisions would make the Tourney relevant ... *SMC probably would be moved to the South.... to bolster the regular season, you could add Seattle U. to the North and Grand Canyon to the South... as they are both trying to improve their basketball program. @Bozozags as I read your response....I thought BYU had come from a football conference (MW).....why did they leave??? I know they are begging for the Big Twelve..... once there...they will become irrelevant ... in most of their sports programs, especially the Women's side of the ledger! They might 'tie' for 3rd in Football....someday, I believe they had a difficult time beating Utah St. this year ???? IMO GU's other programs will suffer.....in a power conference.... it then becomes "all about the MONEY" and you get bogged down. I think the 'divisional' thing would work...but the NCAA would have to bring back the 'intra-conference action...I believe UOP was able to schedule some mid-major power programs in late Feb. from across the country. But this year, I think you should enjoy your team, and be thankful that "it's true strength WILL BE ENHANCED by the 'Santa Clara games"....... think Wade see's the floor in the first half if Xavier, TCU, Alabama, FLA. ST., Butler, Boston College...etc. is the opponent instead. NO. But the bench will get valuable experience...and will become relevant come the Dance! IMO

kitzbuel
01-01-2018, 09:12 AM
The advantage of the unbalanced schedule is that if GU does decide it needs games to tune up the bench, it can still schedule them.

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509er
01-01-2018, 10:07 AM
Kiddwell likes Pacific too. Prior to joining the WCC they had some pretty good teams. This fan thinks they can be/will be more than relevant. I like Stoudamire. He's starting in Stockton with a disadvantage. The school's on probation, has only eight scholarship players. That's out of a possible 13. Despite that disadvantage they're about midway in the WCC's rankings right now.



:]

I think Pacific has the potential to be a pretty good program. I believe, like Gonzaga, Pacific is or could easily be the biggest show in town which none of the other WCC schools are even close to being able to claim. 300K in the City of Stockton and 600K+ in the County. It's not as isolated as Spokane is to other major cities (Sacramento is an hour away) but if they can string a few good teams together they may be able to really upgrade their program somewhat like GU has done.

Zagceo
01-18-2018, 01:39 PM
WCC coming in at #13 in BPI as a conference


Before the season, I made the bold prediction that the Pac-12 and the WCC would both get three teams in the NCAA tournament. Halfway through the season, the WCC getting as many as three teams in appears very unlikely, but the Pac-12 getting only three appears more and more likely.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22136009/college-basketball-conference-power-rankings-according-bpi

DixieZag
01-18-2018, 02:49 PM
WCC coming in at #13 in BPI as a conference



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22136009/college-basketball-conference-power-rankings-according-bpi

Ouch!!

And that is with 2 of 10 teams in or near the top 25

Breathtaking

vandalzag
01-18-2018, 02:54 PM
Agreed that is ugly. It will be interesting if this holds out and the Pac12 only gets 3 schools in, hard to imagine the P5 conference limited to 3 teams.

kitzbuel
03-31-2018, 09:03 PM
Looks like someone at GU read Blanchette’s article.

Robzagnut
03-31-2018, 11:00 PM
Rob's fix for the unbalanced schedule...

Pepperdine and Gonzaga don't play for the next 5 years. I'm sure both teams, coaches, schools and administrators would be fine with that.

ZagsGoZags
03-31-2018, 11:09 PM
Rightght now the regular season means nothing. All the marbles are played for in Vegas.

I think a review of the way the conference plays, vis a vis Mr. Blanchette's proposition, could instill value in the regular season and make these games worth watching.

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Hi Kitzbuel,
I think conference records count for a lot for any and all teams that hope to receive an At-Large bid. Bubble teams.

LongIslandZagFan
04-01-2018, 06:34 AM
I think these rule changes are being overlooked:


Starting with the 2019-20 season, WCC men’s teams will be required to play in a multi-team event, play more home games than road games and schedule no more than two non-Division I opponents.

Those multi-team events are going to be critical for the WCC as that is an easy opportunity for the bottom feeders to up their RPIs by playing power conference teams.


On a side note. Gonzaga won more games in the NCAA tourney than the entire PAC 12... that is all.

Happy Easter all.

kitzbuel
04-01-2018, 10:23 PM
I think these rule changes are being overlooked:



Those multi-team events are going to be critical for the WCC as that is an easy opportunity for the bottom feeders to up their RPIs by playing power conference teams.


On a side note. Gonzaga won more games in the NCAA tourney than the entire PAC 12... that is all.

Happy Easter all.

More home games than road games? Was that an SMC concession?

NotoriousZ
04-02-2018, 06:16 AM
I think these rule changes are being overlooked:



Those multi-team events are going to be critical for the WCC as that is an easy opportunity for the bottom feeders to up their RPIs by playing power conference teams.


On a side note. Gonzaga won more games in the NCAA tourney than the entire PAC 12... that is all.

Happy Easter all.
Iíve been thinking a lot about this and arenít these multi team events by invite only? Itís not like LMU is going to the Maui Invitational anytime soon. SMCís event last year had them losing to mighty Wazzu. Granted I donít know if thatís the best tourney they could get, or if thatís the most challenging event Randy would schedule.

I do think itís going to help the conference somewhat, but if our bottom feeders play in events with other conference bottom feeders (not P5), itís not going to help that much, especially if they lose.

PCZ_Frites
04-02-2018, 09:59 AM
I’ve been thinking a lot about this and aren’t these multi team events by invite only? It’s not like LMU is going to the Maui Invitational anytime soon. SMC’s event last year had them losing to mighty Wazzu. Granted I don’t know if that’s the best tourney they could get, or if that’s the most challenging event Randy would schedule.

I do think it’s going to help the conference somewhat, but if our bottom feeders play in events with other conference bottom feeders (not P5), it’s not going to help that much, especially if they lose.

They are invitational only, but there are so many, even schools like LMU can find a place to play. EWU found one, so certainly there's a tourney for most schools. I found this link with a list of early season tournaments, and the fields as of now. I recall SMC had been in the Diamond Head Classic, but bailed. I'd like to think they bailed because a better tourney option popped up, though I doubt that. Anyway, from what I see in this link SCU is in a Vancouver tourney with UW, Minnesota, and Texas A&M. No other WCC schools to find, though plenty of these fields aren't yet completely filled.

https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2017/11/27/16671208/2018-19-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving