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MDABE80
12-30-2017, 07:19 PM
Was so simple and easy, I don't know if we can learn much from it. When more than half the FG's were 3's the first half and a similar amount was the same in the second half, I dunno what to think about this type of game. We proved we can shoot effectively against no or little defense. We had tons of assists......we had tons of rebounds. . We had lots of everything.

What did we learn? Anything? I know the guys won a game. SC's the worst I've ever seen. Pacific's not far behind.
I guess this kind of my own sounding board. We have trouble enough with putting a strong team together without such weak opponents. My fear is that this type of game lulls the guys asleep ( like they think they're as good as the result) or simply doesn't build skills as a team. Maybe it's just the weakness of 6 teams not name SMC, BYU, USD or GU.

If it's true that a team is only s strong as an opponents' weakness, we have lots of work to do. I celebrates wins. When we win a game with an opponent this bad though. it's difficult to muster up lots of compliments! lol

TexasZagFan
12-30-2017, 07:28 PM
It was good to see Silas hitting from 3, and Jesse playing extended minutes. Zach continues his growth, and Rui grows more beastly every game.

I’d like to be a fly on the wall when they review the video.

Reborn
12-30-2017, 07:36 PM
Nice to see Silas making some shots from the outside. 5-10 from behind the 3 pt line. Josh right behind with 4-9. I like that a lot. I also like that we had 4 guys come off the bench and score 42 points. That's impressive. Our bench is definitely getting better and better, We must remember that Kispert has been hurt for most all of the losses. It helps a lot to have him back at 100%. I think he makes a big difference. Rui and Laren keep getting better and better. That dunk by Larsen was awesome....The one where he got fouled.

The play tonight reminds me of how I think the Zags should play. It was nice to see. Really good passing and moving the ball a lot before shooting. That's Zag basketball, imo.You know I love seeing the team make those three's so I'm happy.

Off to a good start.

Skimhvn
12-30-2017, 07:38 PM
ok let's make a new conference including Zag, SMC, BYU, SDSU, UNLV, Boise St, New Mexico St, Utah St

JPtheBeasta
12-30-2017, 07:42 PM
I agree on all of the above, Tex. Kispert looked much more confident as well. That dunk that wasn’t was kind of a surprise for me; Coach Michaelson didn’t like it, but I did.

Wade doesn’t seem to be 100% confident but I like his compact shot. It should be pretty good once he gets more reps in real games. He moves his feet well on defense and showed some good anticipation down low with help defense to stop a drive on one play. If his arms were a little longer he could be pretty disruptive on defense.

Larsen is solid and the offense just seems to flow when he is in there.

Tillie has so much talent but was just so-so again and is looking more and more like a very good complementary piece, but no where near the impactful player I hoped he would be at this stage. He will lose more and more minutes to Rui, it seems, if he doesn’t step up and be more assertive.

ZionZag
12-30-2017, 07:53 PM
Was so simple and easy, I don't know if we can learn much from it. When more than half the FG's were 3's the first half and a similar amount was the same in the second half, I dunno what to think about this type of game. We proved we can shoot effectively against no or little defense. We had tons of assists......we had tons of rebounds. . We had lots of everything.

What did we learn? Anything? I know the guys won a game. SC's the worst I've ever seen. Pacific's not far behind.
I guess this kind of my own sounding board. We have trouble enough with putting a strong team together without such weak opponents. My fear is that this type of game lulls the guys asleep ( like they think they're as good as the result) or simply doesn't build skills as a team. Maybe it's just the weakness of 6 teams not name SMC, BYU, USD or GU.

If it's true that a team is only s strong as an opponents' weakness, we have lots of work to do. I celebrates wins. When we win a game with an opponent this bad though. it's difficult to muster up lots of compliments! lol

I wouldn't worry too much about their heads getting to big Abe, especially if any or all the players watched the ASU/U of A game tonight....One thing we can know from this afternoons game is you can live by the 3 or die by it.....our bigs still need a lot of work. Our starters got 12 pts and 9 rebounds....against a real bad team

MDABE80
12-30-2017, 08:08 PM
Good point.
I'm feeling better now;)

a13coach
12-30-2017, 08:32 PM
For one the team did not play down to their competition, which has not always been the case this season.

coolhandzag
12-30-2017, 09:42 PM
The preseason is not conference......which is not March (God willing).

Rebound.
Defend.
Execute.

Have courage and take your opportunities. Iím cheeriní for you the whole way.

upan8th
12-30-2017, 10:05 PM
Game was an embarrassment to the WCC, anathema to principles the league originally endorsed: An association of philosophically like-minded schools with shared goals, academically, socially and on the field of play (really like that expression -- sounds so idyllic). As far as the "field of play," these days, "play" is no longer afield. We're talking big ESPN bucks now. And, the entertainment and sports network is not pleased when most of their national viewing audience (and every single one of the 500 SCU fans watching) turns the channel at halftime of another ugly blowout. Think this game was bad? Wait for Pepperdine, Portland, and LMU to show at McCarthy Center. Don't know how long the ESPN mens' BBall contract with the WCC runs, but can guarantee Disney is seriously looking for another west coast league to sign up, one that offers late night east coast insomniacs games worth watching.

Ezag
12-30-2017, 10:22 PM
Yup the lower half of the WCC is beyond pathetic.

bartruff1
12-30-2017, 11:38 PM
This was a regional broadcast on Root not a national broadcast.......what did ESPN have to do with it ???

MDABE80
12-31-2017, 12:06 AM
Lol Bart. they're a bunch of halfassed guys too!

jazzdelmar
12-31-2017, 03:13 AM
Game was an embarrassment to the WCC, anathema to principles the league originally endorsed: An association of philosophically like-minded schools with shared goals, academically, socially and on the field of play (really like that expression -- sounds so idyllic). As far as the "field of play," these days, "play" is no longer afield. We're talking big ESPN bucks now. And, the entertainment and sports network is not pleased when most of their national viewing audience (and every single one of the 500 SCU fans watching) turns the channel at halftime of another ugly blowout. Think this game was bad? Wait for Pepperdine, Portland, and LMU to show at McCarthy Center. Don't know how long the ESPN mens' BBall contract with the WCC runs, but can guarantee Disney is seriously looking for another west coast league to sign up, one that offers late night east coast insomniacs games worth watching.

Amen...rough seas ahead......

GrizZAG
12-31-2017, 03:56 AM
ok let's make a new conference including Zag, SMC, BYU, SDSU, UNLV, Boise St, New Mexico St, Utah St

This would be a formidable conference. Great idea but many reasons it would never work. Primarily having to do with Football (or lack of)

TexasZagFan
12-31-2017, 05:24 AM
This would be a formidable conference. Great idea but many reasons it would never work. Primarily having to do with Football (or lack of)

Football will drive the next round of realignment. Power 5 conferences are going to use the new rules on donations as their excuse, I.e. they need more TV money to make up for what they lost. The current playoff system needs to be tweaked, to give winners of conference championship games priority in the Final Four.

Best way to achieve that is 4 conferences, with the winner of those games earning entry to the CFP.

JPtheBeasta
12-31-2017, 06:50 AM
The bottom half of most leagues seems pretty bad.

CdAZagFan
12-31-2017, 06:55 AM
Best way to achieve that is 4 conferences, with the winner of those games earning entry to the CFP.

John Blanchette from the Spokesman touches on some of these ideas:

WCC Tinkering (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/30/john-blanchette-gonzagas-latest-rout-shows-why-con/#/0)

As for the original post, this Santa Clara team was dreadful - best outcome from this game was the playing time Wade and some others received. This team is so reliant on the 3 that they will live by it, and die by it unless they get their inside game going. I would love to see the statistics for the team this year vs. last year in 3-pt field goal attempts per game - I'm betting there's quite the disparity.

All that being said, I trust Few will figure things out as the season goes along and I think the team we see in March will look a bit differently than it does now.

MileHigh
12-31-2017, 07:05 AM
The problem isnt the rest of the WCC, the problem is Gonzaga. They are a high major basketball program playing against a bunch of mid-low major programs where the talent gap is absolutely huge. Last year Gonzaga had 5 kids on the roster that were top 100 out of HS. I think the rest of the league combined may have had 2. If you take Gonzaga out of the WCC it would be a very balanced conference. Look at recruiting, attendance, $$ spent on basketball, TV exposure, etc. Gonzaga is head and shoulders above everyone in the conference, where quite frankly, it isnt fair.

I have no idea what the solution is. Spokane is so isolated geographically from any other conference that might be a good fit that they are likely stuck.

bartruff1
12-31-2017, 07:16 AM
I doubt there will be a unbalanced schedule...the Gael/BYU game was on ESPN U....they could not have asked for a better game...

509er
12-31-2017, 07:35 AM
Football will drive the next round of realignment. Power 5 conferences are going to use the new rules on donations as their excuse, I.e. they need more TV money to make up for what they lost. The current playoff system needs to be tweaked, to give winners of conference championship games priority in the Final Four.

Best way to achieve that is 4 conferences, with the winner of those games earning entry to the CFP.

Or expand the playoffs to 8 teams.

thespywhozaggedme
12-31-2017, 07:38 AM
I've gotta be 100% honest, it was such a mismatch that I actually felt embarrassed. it would be akin to putting Villanova in the NEC conference.

roxdoc
12-31-2017, 07:47 AM
Off topic but perhaps resulting from the hum drum game background: Ammo digressing with his usual excellent basketball insights then pauses and says "do you think people think its weird that I'm talking about defense?" much LOL from Hudson.

amaronizag
12-31-2017, 08:00 AM
CdAzagfan asked about 3pt attempts this season compared to last so I looked it up.
This season 42.2% of our shot attempts are 3 pointers giving us a national rank of 79th and we make 37.3% of them giving us a national rank of 93rd.

Last year 32.8% of our shot attempts were 3 pointers giving us a national rank of 258th and we made 38.2% of them giving us a national rank of 42nd.

The fact that we are hoisting more 3's is at least partly responsible for the fact that we are averaging more points per game this year. More points per game is also due to the fact that we are averaging more shots per game. Faster tempo -> more shots and more 3 pointers = higher scores.

MileHigh
12-31-2017, 08:05 AM
it would be akin to putting Villanova in the NEC conference.

Great analogy. Creighton in the Horizon League would be another one...

hooter73
12-31-2017, 08:08 AM
It was a scrimmage and we still settled for threes instead of developing some mid range sets. Second game out in March.

zaguarxj
12-31-2017, 08:13 AM
Off topic but perhaps resulting from the hum drum game background: Ammo digressing with his usual excellent basketball insights then pauses and says "do you think people think its weird that I'm talking about defense?" much LOL from Hudson.

I love it when Adam shares insights and anecdotes, like when he talked about literally stealing the ball from Raivio so he could get his 40 pt game. Raivio was really angry but Adam got his 40 so it was worth it. LOL.

Reborn
12-31-2017, 08:14 AM
I enjoyed the game. Team definitely did not let up. That is what I hope to see the rest of the year.

I think the team is already beginning to figure it out. The bigs played great last night. They may not have scored as much as some may like, but they PASSED THE BALL really well to open shooters. Williams played great imo. If teams are going to double and triple team him he needs to be a passer, and I think he's working on that now. I like Larsen every bit as much as I liked Collins. And I think Rui is better than Tillie was last year who only averaged 4+ points per game. To me, last night Gonzaga looked like a team who will make it to the second week of play in the NCAA tournament.

When I played basketball (a million years ago), when a team zoned us we punished them with great outside shooting. Very few teams ever zoned my HS team (undefeated state champs) because we were excellent shooters. I loved to play against a zone. That's how Gonzaga appeared to me last night. This team really does have really good outside shooters. I'm not sure why so many fell into a slump at the same time. Poor 3 point shooting was definitely one reason they lost those games. Kispert, as we can see now, is back to 100% play. If he had been at100% against San Diego St I think we would have won.

thespywhozaggedme
12-31-2017, 08:22 AM
It was a scrimmage and we still settled for threes instead of developing some mid range sets. Second game out in March.

lol @ "settled". We won by 50

thespywhozaggedme
12-31-2017, 08:27 AM
Great analogy. Creighton in the Horizon League would be another one...

yup. No one benefits from us remaining in the WCC, not us and certainly not our opponents. We maybe have 2-3 competitive conference games a year, maybe.

509er
12-31-2017, 08:31 AM
CdAzagfan asked about 3pt attempts this season compared to last so I looked it up.
This season 42.2% of our shot attempts are 3 pointers giving us a national rank of 79th and we make 37.3% of them giving us a national rank of 93rd.

Last year 32.8% of our shot attempts were 3 pointers giving us a national rank of 258th and we made 38.2% of them giving us a national rank of 42nd.

The fact that we are hoisting more 3's is at least partly responsible for the fact that we are averaging more points per game this year. More points per game is also due to the fact that we are averaging more shots per game. Faster tempo -> more shots and more 3 pointers = higher scores.

I'm too lazy to look but I'd guess everyone is shooting more 3s than years prior and more 3s per possession and if you compared to 15 years ago the increase would be staggering. Call it the GS Warriors effect or just good math (33% from 3 = 50% on 2 pointers). Kids are hoisting 3 pointers in AAU ball at the 4th grade level. It's become an expectation that even the big men can drain them when left unchecked. If you'e going to spend time practicing your shot, the money is in perfecting your shot from beyond the arc. Personally I'd like to see them move the line back to NBA distance.

MileHigh
12-31-2017, 08:42 AM
It was a scrimmage and we still settled for threes instead of developing some mid range sets. Second game out in March.

Not being critical of the poster at all, but this is one of the problems with Zags playing in WCC. The fan base cant just enjoy the wins and has to look at "how they played" to determine whether the game was a success, becasue winning the game by a lopsided score is generally a given. Teams in the Big East, or ACC, Pac 12 etc are just happy to get easy conference wins against anyone and every win is enjoyed. If a team can finish 3 or 4 games over .500 in conference play it is a great season and a guaranteed spot in the dance. While the coaches may pick apart how the team played and executed in thier half court sets,took care of the ball, etc. the fan bases just care about the W's however they come!

willandi
12-31-2017, 08:42 AM
CdAzagfan asked about 3pt attempts this season compared to last so I looked it up.
This season 42.2% of our shot attempts are 3 pointers giving us a national rank of 79th and we make 37.3% of them giving us a national rank of 93rd.

Last year 32.8% of our shot attempts were 3 pointers giving us a national rank of 258th and we made 38.2% of them giving us a national rank of 42nd.

The fact that we are hoisting more 3's is at least partly responsible for the fact that we are averaging more points per game this year. More points per game is also due to the fact that we are averaging more shots per game. Faster tempo -> more shots and more 3 pointers = higher scores.


I'm too lazy to look but I'd guess everyone is shooting more 3s than years prior and more 3s per possession and if you compared to 15 years ago the increase would be staggering. Call it the GS Warriors effect or just good math (33% from 3 = 50% on 2 pointers). Kids are hoisting 3 pointers in AAU ball at the 4th grade level. It's become an expectation that even the big men can drain them when left unchecked. If you'e going to spend time practicing your shot, the money is in perfecting your shot from beyond the arc. Personally I'd like to see them move the line back to NBA distance.

Of course the Zags are shooting more threes than last year. Last year they had a 4 man rotation of bigs, Karowskie/J3 and Collins/Tillie. 3 of the 4 could shoot 3's, but the offense was designed to go through the bigs, and it did so well. Then they lost 2 of the 4, and the 2 tallest. Perhaps the 2 best passers out of the low post.

Of course they are shooting more threes. It is the strength of this team.

seacatfan
12-31-2017, 09:33 AM
Perhaps the 2 best passers out of the low post.


Collins was good at a lot of things, but passing wasn't one of them. He was pretty much a black hole when he got the ball on the low block.

MDABE80
12-31-2017, 09:46 AM
Not being critical of the poster at all, but this is one of the problems with Zags playing in WCC. The fan base cant just enjoy the wins and has to look at "how they played" to determine whether the game was a success, becasue winning the game by a lopsided score is generally a given. Teams in the Big East, or ACC, Pac 12 etc are just happy to get easy conference wins against anyone and every win is enjoyed. If a team can finish 3 or 4 games over .500 in conference play it is a great season and a guaranteed spot in the dance. While the coaches may pick apart how the team played and executed in thier half court sets,took care of the ball, etc. the fan bases just care about the W's however they come!

No Offense Mile, I'm not being critical of your post. But....

If I understand this comment, I do think it's critical to look at the mechanics of both victories and losses. It's not just a win and then go "whew" and runoff to the next game. No no..mechanics often tell you if your team is improving or otherwise. I don't think it's just the wins we care about in term of "getting way with a win". Why?.... because we know a lousy performance ( in spite of a win) is or can be a harbinger of a loss around the corner with another team. We continue to jack up 50% of our shots as 3's and develop no inside game to bring the bigs along, we're dead in the water when a good defensive team stops out 3 game or IF and WHEN we go cold from outside the arc. ...and we always do go cold. It's just a matter of time before any team does. Get those bigs and an inside game going! This is our biggest problem right now. Guards come down and just jack up a 3. The team is not being developed. This is the point of guard criticism. THey get their points ok but the rest of the team gets nothing in terms of development.

I do not know what do with a team like last night . Incarnate word gave us a better game.

TexasZagFan
12-31-2017, 09:55 AM
Or expand the playoffs to 8 teams.

The conference championship games basically expands the playoffs to 8 teams. Currently, you have five conference championship games, screwing up the symmetry.

EEzag
12-31-2017, 10:14 AM
The conference championship games basically expands the playoffs to 8 teams. Currently, you have five conference championship games, screwing up the symmetry.

5 confchamps and 3at large. Seems like a good idea. 1extra week of football and the NCAA still can extort more money from The Who gets in weeks of dialog. Problem is big time football is terrified of a lower half team in a power conference making a run and knocking out a big $$ team. NCAA football is like the electoral college. They think they know what's best for everyone, despite what the majority says.

TexasZagFan
12-31-2017, 10:21 AM
John Blanchette from the Spokesman touches on some of these ideas:

WCC Tinkering (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/30/john-blanchette-gonzagas-latest-rout-shows-why-con/#/0)

As for the original post, this Santa Clara team was dreadful - best outcome from this game was the playing time Wade and some others received. This team is so reliant on the 3 that they will live by it, and die by it unless they get their inside game going. I would love to see the statistics for the team this year vs. last year in 3-pt field goal attempts per game - I'm betting there's quite the disparity.

All that being said, I trust Few will figure things out as the season goes along and I think the team we see in March will look a bit differently than it does now.

Thanks CdA. Lol, wonder if Blanchette lurks here. Weíve had several threads discussing these issues, particularly the NCAA contributions from the Zags and the Gaels over the past few years.

Not counting the autobid, the Zags alone account for 9 additional shares @ $1.6 million per share: 7 wins, two losses (the national championship game is not counted).

Averaging it out over 3 years, thatís 5 million a year spread over six years. During 4 of those years, the WCC will get $2.5 million in addition to what they get for the autobid game and the share for SMC. Each school in the WCC will likely receive $400K each of the next 4-5 years.

Iím sure Santa Clara is using it to be pay Sendek.

cggonzaga
12-31-2017, 10:21 AM
No Offense Mile, I'm not being critical of your post. But....

If I understand this comment, I do think it's critical to look at the mechanics of both victories and losses. It's not just a win and then go "whew" and runoff to the next game. No no..mechanics often tell you if your team is improving or otherwise. I don't think it's just the wins we care about in term of "getting way with a win". Why?.... because we know a lousy performance ( in spite of a win) is or can be a harbinger of a loss around the corner with another team. We continue to jack up 50% of our shots as 3's and develop no inside game to bring the bigs along, we're dead in the water when a good defensive team stops out 3 game or IF and WHEN we go cold from outside the arc. ...and we always do go cold. It's just a matter of time before any team does. Get those bigs and an inside game going! This is our biggest problem right now. Guards come down and just jack up a 3. The team is not being developed. This is the point of guard criticism. THey get their points ok but the rest of the team gets nothing in terms of development.

I do not know what do with a team like last night . Incarnate word gave us a better game.

Ever think the reason weíve been perimeter oriented lately is because thatís what teams are giving us? We continue to play like this on the perimeter and teams will be forced to extend thus opening back up the interior.

I donít hear the coaches complaining about our guard play the past couple of games.

TexasZagFan
12-31-2017, 10:23 AM
5 confchamps and 3at large. Seems like a good idea. 1extra week of football and the NCAA still can extort more money from The Who gets in weeks of dialog. Problem is big time football is terrified of a lower half team in a power conference making a run and knocking out a big $$ team. NCAA football is like the electoral college. They think they know what's best for everyone, despite what the majority says.

Notes Dame is already looking at how they schedule, less difficult games in November, ala Bama vs. Mercer.

Kong-Kool-Aid
12-31-2017, 10:24 AM
The more and more I read these posts complaining about us winning by 50 but not getting the ball inside enough and "settling for 3's" make me question the basketball knowledge of some posters.

I think having that perspective will help me get less annoyed when they post things like that.

They don't understand, they just like being negative, they can't just enjoy this team for what it is.

Serenity Now.

MDABE80
12-31-2017, 10:40 AM
The more and more I read these posts complaining about us winning by 50 but not getting the ball inside enough and "settling for 3's" make me question the basketball knowledge of some posters.

I think having that perspective will help me get less annoyed when they post things like that.

They don't understand, they just like being negative, they can't just enjoy this team for what it is.

Serenity Now.

Think back to how Nigel managed a game and then you might ( I doubt it) understand how a team is built and why this tem is far inferior to last years' model. No coming down and just begin jacking up 3's. Gee we win by 50 over an incredibly weak team and don't develop ours along the way. Gee how smart of you to point that out. The trouble is how the team is run and how the game is managed.
This is what the problem is. Just jack it up and count your blessing when you cream a weak team with no defense. What a victory.
Let me fill you in. Most team in the future (outside this half assed league) will be strangling the 3 point shooters since it's obvious that's about all we do these days..

You think Bennett or Rose don't get the point? DO you seriously think we'll just generate an inside game or a different offense when we haven't so far due to our guard situation??? DO you think that IF we get a weekend or a game in the NCA tournament some thoughtful coach or smart player won't stop the quick and easy 3?

This team wins with 3's and only 3's. Lucky that we rebound well. But this is the style of play that gets you beat and gets you an early out. We don't need Nigel to show us the difference. What we DO need is someone with his habits and thoughtful approach to the game. Kong....we just played 2 games again 347 ranked and 342 ranked teams ( out of 351)... only a lightweight thinker would think these are serious opponents. Wait till serious team in the 50's or less come visit us.

SO no, we all should not go polyanna happy feet when we beat teams like this with 3 pt festivals and leave the rest of our game behind. Why? Because we're going to need that for better opponents.

tenniszag
12-31-2017, 10:46 AM
Our inside game isn’t nearly as good as it has been but this team is loaded with shooters. Which means more 3’s. If Perk, ZN, CK, SM, and even Tillie and Rui have an open 3, they should take it. It could be our demise in the tourney but it could also mean we upset a 1/2 seed in the S16 for another deep run. For better or worse it’s the team we have this year.

I also think this team is much further along at this same point in the season and also has more upside than both the 2013-2014 and 2015-2016 Zag teams, but for some reason this team is criticized much harder.

JPtheBeasta
12-31-2017, 10:46 AM
Ever think the reason weíve been perimeter oriented lately is because thatís what teams are giving us? We continue to play like this on the perimeter and teams will be forced to extend thus opening back up the interior.

I donít hear the coaches complaining about our guard play the past couple of games.

Good points.

Did anybody else hear Coach Michaelson say that he was disappointed in Kispert's end-of-half dunk that wasn't due to time running out because he not only should have made a smarter play, but because he's supposed to be shooting 3's? I was a little surprised, especially since Kispert is such a strong finisher. It's the first time I can remember a GU coach say that he wanted a guy to spot up and shoot 3's; most of the time they are wanting guys to be more aggressive going to the rim. Maybe it is because of the sprain, and they just want him to be more conservative to avoid injury, but it struck me as odd.

JPtheBeasta
12-31-2017, 10:53 AM
Our inside game isn’t nearly as good as it has been but this team is loaded with shooters. Which means more 3’s. If Perk, ZN, CK, SM, and even Tillie and Rui have an open 3, they should take it. It could be our demise in the tourney but it could also mean we upset a 1/2 seed in the S16 for another deep run. For better or worse it’s the team we have this year.

I also think this team is much further along at this same point in the season and also has more upside than both the 2013-2014 and 2015-2016 Zag teams, but for some reason this team is criticized much harder.

I think I am more critical because of the untapped potential of some of these guys.

MileHigh
12-31-2017, 11:02 AM
No Offense Mile, I'm not being critical of your post. But....

If I understand this comment, I do think it's critical to look at the mechanics of both victories and losses. It's not just a win and then go "whew" and runoff to the next game. No no..mechanics often tell you if your team is improving or otherwise. I don't think it's just the wins we care about in term of "getting way with a win". Why?.... because we know a lousy performance ( in spite of a win) is or can be a harbinger of a loss around the corner with another team. We continue to jack up 50% of our shots as 3's and develop no inside game to bring the bigs along, we're dead in the water when a good defensive team stops out 3 game or IF and WHEN we go cold from outside the arc. ...and we always do go cold. It's just a matter of time before any team does. Get those bigs and an inside game going! This is our biggest problem right now. Guards come down and just jack up a 3. The team is not being developed. This is the point of guard criticism. THey get their points ok but the rest of the team gets nothing in terms of development.

I do not know what do with a team like last night . Incarnate word gave us a better game.

My point is that if you are playing teams that are better than you or equal to you on a regular basis, and you are pulling out wins then you have some confidence that your style of play (whatever it may be) will work against good teams. You don't have to watch a blowout like the last two Zag games and try to imagine how that style and execution would work against a really good team.

As to your other point, if you have really good shooters, the wide open 3 is a better shot from an efficiency stand point than a contested post-up. In other words, shooting 45% from the behind the arc will get you more points than 65% on 2's. If your point is better balance, I agree to an extent, but with Josh, Kispert, and Norvell I would coach them all to shoot every single time they have an open catch and shoot 3. I guarantee that the first line of every other teams scouting report is to run the Zags off the 3 point line. That is how well they shoot it

Kong-Kool-Aid
12-31-2017, 11:04 AM
Think back to how Nigel managed a game and then you might ( I doubt it) understand how a team is built and why this tem is far inferior to last years' model. No coming down and just begin jacking up 3's. Gee we win by 50 over an incredibly weak team and don't develop ours along the way. Gee how smart of you to point that out. The trouble is how the team is run and how the game is managed.
This is what the problem is. Just jack it up and count your blessing when you cream a weak team with no defense. What a victory.
Let me fill you in. Most team in the future (outside this half assed league) will be strangling the 3 point shooters since it's obvious that's about all we do these days..

You think Bennett or Rose don't get the point? DO you seriously think we'll just generate an inside game or a different offense when we haven't so far due to our guard situation??? DO you think that IF we get a weekend or a game in the NCA tournament some thoughtful coach or smart player won't stop the quick and easy 3?

This team wins with 3's and only 3's. Lucky that we rebound well. But this is the style of play that gets you beat and gets you an early out. We don't need Nigel to show us the difference. What we DO need is someone with his habits and thoughtful approach to the game. Kong....we just played 2 games again 347 ranked and 342 ranked teams ( out of 351)... only a lightweight thinker would think these are serious opponents. Wait till serious team in the 50's or less come visit us.

SO no, we all should not go polyanna happy feet when we beat teams like this with 3 pt festivals and leave the rest of our game behind. Why? Because we're going to need that for better opponents.

Who came into this season thinking this team was as good as last years (arguably the best in the country) team?
Maybe you should enjoy what we have instead of wringing your hands about how we compare to last season?

You take what the other team gives you, if they were all over us on the 3 point line then it would make sense to move the ball inside, that''s what you do, you react to what the opposition gives you. There will be plenty of opportunities this season to work the inside. At the end of the day you need to be able to adapt to and take what the other team gives you. We did, we exploited it... it would have been plain stupid to force it inside non-stop when SC was specifically trying to limit those opportunities.

We didn't turn the ball over and we took what we were given, exactly what we should be doing.

Live in the now and realize this isn't going to be as good as the best team in the country. But this team is growing and will continue to grow throughout the year.

MDABE80
12-31-2017, 11:07 AM
My apologies for my harsh comments Kong. It's just one guys opinion.

Zagger
12-31-2017, 11:15 AM
2018 Wish ..... WCC gets better slowly, steadily, measurably, etc. Zags are good. I thought they played pretty good D last night barring a few gaffs. TOs were low :) and passing was pretty good. When the Zags are on they are going to make other teams look bad. This Zag bunch, IMHO, will make it to the S16 - maybe further. I base that on how I feel the bench is improving. Rui, Larsen, Norvell or Kispert, Jones, Wade - I do anything but cringe when those guys come in. There's a pretty solid 10+ Zags. That's got to be difficult for any team running up much of a score against them let alone WCC teams.

Last night the Mrs & I watched Perkins warming up from 3 before the game started. He made his last 5 shots (and a lot more before those). The last 5 were from beyond the 3 point line in pretty even distances with the last being from mid court. He got an ovation from those who were paying attention. The Zags have some dang good shooters - even under a bit of good D against them. Will that be consistent? We'll find out :) I'm thinking we've never had this many Zags this good at shooting the 3. I'm thinking that with Larsen, Rui and Jones improving we'll have a half decent inside the 3 line game as well.

Hoopaholic
12-31-2017, 11:20 AM
The more and more I read these posts complaining about us winning by 50 but not getting the ball inside enough and "settling for 3's" make me question the basketball knowledge of some posters.

I think having that perspective will help me get less annoyed when they post things like that.

They don't understand, they just like being negative, they can't just enjoy this team for what it is.

Serenity Now.
Seems to me this team is extremely balanced and can score both inside and outside as well as midrange game with good hi low action
Because of this balance the team has the unique ability to counter punch according to what the defense is giving them instead of forcing one particular action of which the defensive scheme is designed to take away

Yesterday first half was a prime example where clearly SC by defensive alignment was saying you must beat us by outside shooting and was ghost doubling block play. And we responded. The. Second half SC started to push out their defense to cover shooters which allowed for gap penetration and we started responding with those looks

I do believe that other teams elected to run our shooters off the line but that created block play and Williams and tulle both have had games in which they exploded when the defense was running shooters off the line

Some seem to think you must pound it I. Every game. But I subscribe to the counter punch what the defense is allowing and we have the perfectly balanced team to do so

MileHigh
12-31-2017, 11:23 AM
Who came into this season thinking this team was as good as last years (arguably the best in the country) team?
Maybe you should enjoy what we have instead of wringing your hands about how we compare to last season?

You take what the other team gives you, if they were all over us on the 3 point line then it would make sense to move the ball inside, that''s what you do, you react to what the opposition gives you. There will be plenty of opportunities this season to work the inside. At the end of the day you need to be able to adapt to and take what the other team gives you. We did, we exploited it... it would have been plain stupid to force it inside non-stop when SC was specifically trying to limit those opportunities.

We didn't turn the ball over and we took what we were given, exactly what we should be doing.

Live in the now and realize this isn't going to be as good as the best team in the country. But this team is growing and will continue to grow throughout the year.

...agree....comparing this years team (with three new starters and three freshmen playing major minutes) to last years team, which is without question the best Gonzaga team ever, is a fools errand.

Hoopaholic
12-31-2017, 11:23 AM
Good points.

Did anybody else hear Coach Michaelson say that he was disappointed in Kispert's end-of-half dunk that wasn't due to time running out because he not only should have made a smarter play, but because he's supposed to be shooting 3's? I was a little surprised, especially since Kispert is such a strong finisher. It's the first time I can remember a GU coach say that he wanted a guy to spot up and shoot 3's; most of the time they are wanting guys to be more aggressive going to the rim. Maybe it is because of the sprain, and they just want him to be more conservative to avoid injury, but it struck me as odd.
I took it as frustration because he had the wide open catch and shoot look but opted to drive for du k which put him at risk of re injuring his ankle on a play that was not needed

ZagsGoZags
12-31-2017, 11:23 AM
Good points.

Did anybody else hear Coach Michaelson say that he was disappointed in Kispert's end-of-half dunk that wasn't due to time running out because he not only should have made a smarter play, but because he's supposed to be shooting 3's? I was a little surprised, especially since Kispert is such a strong finisher. It's the first time I can remember a GU coach say that he wanted a guy to spot up and shoot 3's; most of the time they are wanting guys to be more aggressive going to the rim. Maybe it is because of the sprain, and they just want him to be more conservative to avoid injury, but it struck me as odd.

What I thought I heard Michaelson say was that 'in that situation' Kispert should have taken the 3 attempt, because that was all the shot clock allowed him. I do not think the coach meant in general.

bballbeachbum
12-31-2017, 11:54 AM
Seems to me this team is extremely balanced and can score both inside and outside as well as midrange game with good hi low action
Because of this balance the team has the unique ability to counter punch according to what the defense is giving them instead of forcing one particular action of which the defensive scheme is designed to take away

Yesterday first half was a prime example where clearly SC by defensive alignment was saying you must beat us by outside shooting and was ghost doubling block play. And we responded. The. Second half SC started to push out their defense to cover shooters which allowed for gap penetration and we started responding with those looks

I do believe that other teams elected to run our shooters off the line but that created block play and Williams and tulle both have had games in which they exploded when the defense was running shooters off the line

Some seem to think you must pound it I. Every game. But I subscribe to the counter punch what the defense is allowing and we have the perfectly balanced team to do so

agree with this hoop, and to the part in bold, UW game is a nice example. UW had just come off the big win vs. KU with the same idea of really extending the zone to force paint play basically and eliminate the 3 at all costs, and KU could not respond inside. Zags hurt them for that, JIII big

bartruff1
12-31-2017, 12:28 PM
I loved the dunk....what was it....0.5 seconds late....screw Michelson......he probably couldn't dunk if he had all day to try it...

upan8th
12-31-2017, 12:40 PM
Great analogy. Creighton in the Horizon League would be another one...

The game was available to most of the country on ESPN 3. Blocked on the west coast.

sittingon50
12-31-2017, 01:01 PM
I loved the dunk....what was it....0.5 seconds late....screw Michelson......he probably couldn't dunk if he had all day to try it...

:fingergun:

bartruff1
12-31-2017, 01:13 PM
Michelson might be a great guy but I do not like his style...he is a Debbie Downer...never smiles ...never has a positive thing to say...to call out a freshman on television for that play is stupid...

I much prefer Donny. he is positive, relaxed and witty and knows his stuff... his personality just shines ....

cggonzaga
12-31-2017, 02:04 PM
Seems to me this team is extremely balanced and can score both inside and outside as well as midrange game with good hi low action
Because of this balance the team has the unique ability to counter punch according to what the defense is giving them instead of forcing one particular action of which the defensive scheme is designed to take away

Yesterday first half was a prime example where clearly SC by defensive alignment was saying you must beat us by outside shooting and was ghost doubling block play. And we responded. The. Second half SC started to push out their defense to cover shooters which allowed for gap penetration and we started responding with those looks

I do believe that other teams elected to run our shooters off the line but that created block play and Williams and tulle both have had games in which they exploded when the defense was running shooters off the line

Some seem to think you must pound it I. Every game. But I subscribe to the counter punch what the defense is allowing and we have the perfectly balanced team to do so

Not all posters seem to understand this.

Also, I donít care how bad a team is, and SC is nowhere near the worst ever, beating a team by 50 is quite an accomplishment.

DixieZag
12-31-2017, 02:56 PM
Thanks CdA. Lol, wonder if Blanchette lurks here. Weíve had several threads discussing these issues, particularly the NCAA contributions from the Zags and the Gaels over the past few years..

Can almost guarantee it.

If you're job entails deep knowledge and analysis of the Zags (which his does, and he excels in it), it would be almost malpractice to not look at what other deeply committed/invested people are saying.

He has to cover other teams and issues. The board doesn't. Posts from scrubs like me get passed over, the BB people post things that are invaluable.

bartruff1
12-31-2017, 03:17 PM
Well that would explain why he keeps coming up with such loony ideas...

JPtheBeasta
12-31-2017, 05:02 PM
Michelson might be a great guy but I do not like his style...he is a Debbie Downer...never smiles ...never has a positive thing to say...to call out a freshman on television for that play is stupid...

I much prefer Donny. he is positive, relaxed and witty and knows his stuff... his personality just shines ....

+1

I loved the dunk. It’s still a game, after all.

Mantua
12-31-2017, 06:00 PM
I took it as frustration because he had the wide open catch and shoot look but opted to drive for du k which put him at risk of re injuring his ankle on a play that was not needed


He could have and should have been aware enough to have handled the interview more professionally, not as an opportunity to indulge his emotions at the expense of demeaning a freshman and his own dignity as a representative of GU’s coaching staff.

Bogozags
01-01-2018, 06:01 AM
yup. No one benefits from us remaining in the WCC, not us and certainly not our opponents. We maybe have 2-3 competitive conference games a year, maybe.

FYI -

MY definition of a "close-game" is a win/loss by 10pts or less...

Close games in WCC play:

2016-17 we had 4 (18)
2015-16 we had 11 (18)
2014-15 we had 6 (18)
2013-14 we had 9 (18)
2012-13 we had 5 (18)
2011-12 we had 5 (18)
2010-11 we had 7 (16)
2009-10 we had 9 (16)
2008-09 we had 4 (16)
2007-08 we had 7 (16)

() = Total conference games

Over the last ten years we have averaged of 6.7 close games per season in WCC play, which is obviously many more than what we might have thought...

This just proves that playing WCC completion is more difficult than one would have thought...I still advocate moving to another conference (MW or BE)

Oh, the SCU game just proved we can move the ball around much better than we have and then the "hit open shots!" Against a zone, it is much more difficult to attack from the inside because defences have a tendency to collapse the more the ball is moved from side to side, meaning that getting passes to the interior is then more difficult...I believe we played pretty darn well and executed the game plan as Coach Few wanted...

The added benefit is that both Wade and Jacob played substantially more minutes than they have averaged in past games, which is an added benefit and confidence builder...