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Zags11
12-21-2017, 08:09 PM
Ugly. I'd swear but I can't on here. Zags lose 72-70

Perkins and melson were terrible. Melson worse then Perkins IMO. Zn was good. Rui and jw3 were really good. Tillie is foul prone and disappears a lot in games. Kispert is gone with time.

This was a horrible loss. It shows when Perkins struggles, this team can't overcome it. Some will say its cuz he isn't good but it shows how important he is to this team. Zn will average 25+ a game in a season before he leaves.

You can't win when your guards turn the ball over and can't buy a bucket. Let the bashing begin! I know some are revving up.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400986886

Sigh. Have a good Xmas.

Zags11
12-21-2017, 08:11 PM
We need to stop thinking this is last years team. Enjoy it for what it is. This team could go to E8 or rd of 32.

dhozagfan08
12-21-2017, 08:12 PM
I don't be get the coaching decisions. It seemed like our best lineup was at the end of the first half, with 2 bigs and rui at the 3. Why the heck didn't we go to that again? How is having perkins and melson out there a better option?!

katman50
12-21-2017, 08:12 PM
Pathetic game for the Zags. Little emotion, no fire, uninspired, silly fouls, silly passes, etc. The list goes on and on. Congrats to SDSU. The Zags better get ready for some soul searching.

Zagdawg
12-21-2017, 08:14 PM
More Wade. Need to give him minutes to develop --need another option.

ZagsObserver
12-21-2017, 08:15 PM
We need a new starting lineup. Either Rui or Kispert at the 3. ZN, Perk, Tillie and jw3.

jayray
12-21-2017, 08:17 PM
Pathetic game for the Zags. Little emotion, no fire, uninspired, silly fouls, silly passes, etc. The list goes on and on. Congrats to SDSU. The Zags better get ready for some soul searching.

Gonzaga got out gonzaga-ed. Embarrassing.

cggonzaga
12-21-2017, 08:17 PM
This is the kind of team that needs these types of losses. You don’t show up, you’ll get beat. They’re young and need to learn from this. May be it’s our backcourt that needs benched next game.

hooter73
12-21-2017, 08:18 PM
I know this is nothing like last year, but I don’t get this team and I’m starting to think Few doesn’t either. I’m not seeing them get better, or motivated.

gonzagafan62
12-21-2017, 08:18 PM
Few was bad, guards were bad, team didn't listen, bad fouls, bad passing, bad turnovers....


Other than that it was a great night

gonzagafan62
12-21-2017, 08:18 PM
I know this is nothing like last year, but I don’t get this team and I’m starting to think Few doesn’t either. I’m not seeing them get better, or motivated.

You aren't the only one that thinks this. We better figure it out quick or the streak WILL END

Just_An_Old_Zag
12-21-2017, 08:19 PM
We will goes as far as josh takes us...the streak ends this year

ZagsObserver
12-21-2017, 08:19 PM
There are some positions where you can get away with little offensive potential. Shooting guard is not one of them. This must be solved.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2017, 08:19 PM
JWIII misses 2 ft's in the 1st half, Perk misses both in the 2nd half and Melson went 1-2. If we made those, we win, despite how wretched we played.

willandi
12-21-2017, 08:20 PM
Few was bad, guards were bad, team didn't listen, bad fouls, bad passing, bad turnovers....


Other than that it was a great night

Forgot the refs, they gave SDSU 10 points and took 6 away from the Zags. Everybody sucked.

Skimhvn
12-21-2017, 08:20 PM
MELSON -9
WILLIAMS 0
PERKINS -7
NORVELL +6
TILLIE -9
WADE +3
LARSEN +1
HACHIMURA +5
JONES -1
KISPERT 1

cggonzaga
12-21-2017, 08:21 PM
We will goes as far as josh takes us...the streak ends this year

Haha here we go. Way to overreact. Never fails after a loss.

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2017, 08:21 PM
Larsen played 0 minutes in the 2nd half. Few did not coach his A game tonight

gonzagafan62
12-21-2017, 08:22 PM
Forgot the refs, they gave SDSU 10 points and took 6 away from the Zags. Everybody sucked.

Refs were fine IMO. We shot ourselves.

cggonzaga
12-21-2017, 08:22 PM
Forgot the refs, they gave SDSU 10 points and took 6 away from the Zags. Everybody sucked.

Refs were terrible all night. Blocks instead of charges on Tillie and Norvell were ridiculous.

gonzagafan62
12-21-2017, 08:22 PM
MELSON -9
WILLIAMS 0
PERKINS -7
NORVELL +6
TILLIE -9
WADE +3
LARSEN +1
HACHIMURA +5
JONES -1
24 KISPERT 1

That's alarming. Rui doing work tho

seacatfan
12-21-2017, 08:24 PM
Wait, the streak is ending already in December? WCC may very well be a 1 bid league this year, so Zags just need to make sure they get that bid. If it truly comes to that, nothing really matters until the conference tourney in Vegas.

JPtheBeasta
12-21-2017, 08:24 PM
This is a game to forget for the fans and a game to store away forever if you are a Gonzaga player. This is the kind of game that will spell doom in March. They need to figure out how to win these ugly games. The home crowd was good for the Aztecs and seemingly every 50/50 loose ball or 50/50 foul call went against GU tonight. The only way to counteract that is by valuing each possession and taking care of the ball. This is the type of game when the guys have to realize early what's going on and play much, much smarter. This was a game about mindset and mental toughness; unfortunately, several people that the team relies on were awol for most of the game.

TexasZagFan
12-21-2017, 08:24 PM
All right, get it out of your system. Vent all you want. Not much to be pleased with, though Rui, Zach, and Jacob continue to grow.

Silly turnovers cost us the game.

ZagsObserver
12-21-2017, 08:25 PM
MELSON -9
WILLIAMS 0
PERKINS -7
NORVELL +6
TILLIE -9
WADE +3
LARSEN +1
HACHIMURA +5
JONES -1
24 KISPERT 1

Surprised by the Tillie number. Otherwise, aligned with what I saw.

JPtheBeasta
12-21-2017, 08:26 PM
Refs were fine IMO. We shot ourselves.

I thought the refs were terrible, but so were the Zags. You can throw in the clock operator and color announcer, as well.

drvenkman05
12-21-2017, 08:28 PM
I see the Few haters are out in force. Face it, Few coached a masterpiece but the players screwed it up!

But seriously, not a great game for all involved. It’s gonna happen!


Larsen played 0 minutes in the 2nd half. Few did not coach his A game tonight

TexasZagFan
12-21-2017, 08:28 PM
This is a game to forget for the fans and a game to store away forever if you are a Gonzaga player. This is the kind of game that will spell doom in March. They need to figure out how to win these ugly games. The home crowd was good for the Aztecs and seemingly every 50/50 loose ball or 50/50 foul call went against GU tonight. The only way to counteract that is by valuing each possession and taking care of the ball. This is the type of game when the guys have to realize early what's going on and play much, much smarter. This was a game about mindset and mental toughness; unfortunately, several people that the team relies on were awol for most of the game.

Money phrase: Value Each Possession

JPtheBeasta
12-21-2017, 08:28 PM
All right, get it out of your system. Vent all you want. Not much to be pleased with, though Rui, Zach, and Jacob continue to grow.

Silly turnovers cost us the game.

Yet again, the Zags did well when Jacob was in... DNP second half?? I don't remember seeing him.

My patience is growing thin with Tillie and his inconsistency.

caduceus
12-21-2017, 08:28 PM
Hachi was perfect from the line. The remainder of the team shot 50% at the line. Left 6 missed attempts that could have won or tied it.

Norvell and Hachi lead plus-minus. Melson, Perkins, and Tillie were all negative.

As I said in the game thread, this won't be an awful loss come March. Teaching moment. Beat Pacific.

bigblahla
12-21-2017, 08:28 PM
If you don't play under control you cannot control tempo or run a team.....quote all the stats you want....my eyes don't lie.....truly sad to watch...

Go!! Zags!!!

LongIslandZagFan
12-21-2017, 08:28 PM
Refs won that game for them. Not at the end... but just about everything leading up to that... but in the end Zags shot themselves in the foot when they had chances.

Sarenyon
12-21-2017, 08:31 PM
Nice 3 pointer by Wade at the very end.

Look, we're going to drop 2-3 more during league. We do that and make it to the WCC finals, we are in.

For those that claim the streak is over, you willing to put money on that statement? Because I'm looking to earn some easy cash. We will be fine. This is still a NCAA tournament team, who will probably go 32 or 16.

Birddog
12-21-2017, 08:32 PM
The Zags had this game in reach for about 5 mins in the 2nd half while down 1. In that stretch they managed to screw the pooch repeatedly and lost the momentum to win it. Few should have put Larsen in the game about then IMO, he was a difference maker in the first half comeback.

Mantua
12-21-2017, 08:32 PM
All right, get it out of your system. Vent all you want. Not much to be pleased with, though Rui, Zach, and Jacob continue to grow.

Silly turnovers cost us the game.

Yes...and Ayayi is learning and growing.

willandi
12-21-2017, 08:33 PM
Refs won that game for them. Not at the end... but just about everything leading up to that... but in the end Zags shot themselves in the foot when they had chances.

I agree. Zags played like s**t, but if you can't see at least a 4 point swing on the officiating, you need glasses.

bigblahla
12-21-2017, 08:34 PM
Refs won that game for them. Not at the end... but just about everything leading up to that... but in the end Zags shot themselves in the foot when they had chances.

Have to agree LIZF some really questionable calls on Tillie and Zach...

Go!! Zags!!!

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2017, 08:35 PM
I see the Few haters are out in force. Face it, Few coached a masterpiece but the players screwed it up!

But seriously, not a great game for all involved. It’s gonna happen!

lol@ "haters ". Almost everyone, including Few were off tonight, save for a select few.

billyberu
12-21-2017, 08:35 PM
Refs were fine IMO. We shot ourselves.Refs were bad, but so were we.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

TexasZagFan
12-21-2017, 08:36 PM
Refs won that game for them. Not at the end... but just about everything leading up to that... but in the end Zags shot themselves in the foot when they had chances.

Refs had little to do with our 16 turnovers.

ZagOD7540
12-21-2017, 08:37 PM
Few has to be irate! Your veteran backcourt failed you. Just brutal to watch.

Goshzagit
12-21-2017, 08:39 PM
Yet again, the Zags did well when Jacob was in... DNP second half?? I don't remember seeing him.

My patience is growing thin with Tillie and his inconsistency.

Our very best lineup, the one we went on 8-0 run, and also 8-2 run was...

Perkins
Norvell
Rui
Tillie
J3 and also Larsen.

We played big. Needed size at 3 tonight. It worked beautifully in first half.

Was it a subbing accident by Coach? Because we never saw it again.

It worked the zone better, heck, even Larsen got 2 blocks and 3 rebs in 2 mins of play. Only time we truly ran offense.

Never saw the lineup again. Sadly.

jazzdelmar
12-21-2017, 08:42 PM
From SD paper.

The stat of the game: Late in the first half and into the second half, Gonzaga had the ball 16 times with a chance to tie or take the lead. And didn’t.

Students didn’t rush the floor after the victory, not because they didn’t want to but because arena security literally fought them off – causing a few minor skirmishes along the baseline by Gonzaga’s bench. At least one student was escorted out of the arena.

JPtheBeasta
12-21-2017, 08:42 PM
I'm not used to so many bone head plays like I saw during crunch time on the defensive end. I don't think people were trusting each other and struck out trying to make home run defensive plays. 2 fouls in a row at the top of the circle that led to free throws and 4 points during crunch time when the Zags were scoring and needing stops to keep clawing back into the game. Jones apparently crossed up the defense on another possession to let his man score at the hoop. Then Tillie fouled on that pointless loose ball reach in to put the Aztecs at the line again.

Just_An_Old_Zag
12-21-2017, 08:44 PM
Ill accept your overaction comment..

However i will counter with this ... i was at GU when John Stockton was at st als im no fair weather fan..

I hope im wrong ill eat my words an buy you a drink in maui if im wrong

seacatfan
12-21-2017, 08:44 PM
A thwarted court storming? Huh. They've been down for a few years, but it's not like SDSU hasn't won any big games before. Maybe they've already forgotten.

Greg Brethour
12-21-2017, 08:45 PM
If Mark Few benches Williams and Tillie from starting for lack of energy, then Perkins needs to sit out a game. He cost them another game. We had Nigel Goss Williams last year, Perkins canít handle it! Why canít Few see his short comings!!!!!!!

Goshzagit
12-21-2017, 08:46 PM
The Zags had this game in reach for about 5 mins in the 2nd half while down 1. In that stretch they managed to screw the pooch repeatedly and lost the momentum to win it. Few should have put Larsen in the game about then IMO, he was a difference maker in the first half comeback.

Bingo.

I kept saying where is the timeout after 4 straight TO's when we were within 1

JPtheBeasta
12-21-2017, 08:46 PM
From SD paper.

The stat of the game: Late in the first half and into the second half, Gonzaga had the ball 16 times with a chance to tie or take the lead. And didn’t.

Students didn’t rush the floor after the victory, not because they didn’t want to but because arena security literally fought them off – causing a few minor skirmishes along the baseline by Gonzaga’s bench. At least one student was escorted out of the arena.

That's depressing. I thought it was a lot but didn't think it could have been that many. If the Zags had taken the lead at any point there the Aztecs may have started feeling the pressure and wilted, making this a very different game

Zags11
12-21-2017, 08:47 PM
We will goes as far as josh takes us...the streak ends this year

How much u wanna bet?

TexasZagFan
12-21-2017, 08:47 PM
From SD paper.

The stat of the game: Late in the first half and into the second half, Gonzaga had the ball 16 times with a chance to tie or take the lead. And didn’t.

Students didn’t rush the floor after the victory, not because they didn’t want to but because arena security literally fought them off – causing a few minor skirmishes along the baseline by Gonzaga’s bench. At least one student was escorted out of the arena.

What was maddening about those 16 opportunities was the manner in which they were squandered, primarily through carelessness with the ball. The staff will have plenty to chew on when they analyze the video.

GrizZAG
12-21-2017, 08:48 PM
I will re-watch this debacle again tomorrow, but I counted at least 9 times we were within two and had possession to tie or take the lead and failed. The dumb decision making tonight was beyond belief and it just continued most of the game. Many of those 3's USD fired up were so uncontested they had more than 10 feet of space to get set in. We should have figured out they could block those lob passes early on but nope, kept doing it over and over. i.e,..turnover after turnover. Why do we wait until panic time to trap, defend mightily, shoot the 3 fearlessly but continue to drive into traffic over and over with slight success? It was so indicative of Perkins game tonight that he finished missing back to back free throws then fouling out of the game. That was an exclamation mark on a night long meltdown for him. Tillie got the wind knocked out of him by the refs early. Frankly we should have had this game easily. What happened to the team that took Florida to two OT's and clobbered a good Creighton team? It was the UND game all over again but we didn't learn from it apparently.

ZagOD7540
12-21-2017, 08:51 PM
What was maddening about those 16 opportunities was the manner in which they were squandered, primarily through carelessness with the ball. The staff will have plenty to chew on when they analyze the video.

You’d swear the ball was oblong shaped...just a head shaker. Kept waiting for the Zags to get the lead but they just kept pissing down their leg

thespywhozaggedme
12-21-2017, 08:51 PM
I will re-watch this debacle again tomorrow, but I counted at least 9 times we were within two and had possession to tie or take the lead and failed. The dumb decision making tonight was beyond belief and it just continued most of the game. Many of those 3's USD fired up were so uncontested they had more than 10 feet of space to get set in. We should have figured out they could block those lob passes early on but nope, kept doing it over and over. i.e,..turnover after turnover. Why do we wait until panic time to trap, defend mightily, shoot the 3 fearlessly but continue to drive into traffic over and over with slight success? It was so indicative of Perkins game tonight that he finished missing back to back free throws then fouling out of the game. That was an exclamation mark on a night long meltdown for him. Tillie got the wind knocked out of him by the refs early. Frankly we should have had this game easily. What happened to the team that took Florida to two OT's and clobbered a good Creighton team? It was the UND game all over again but we didn't learn from it apparently.

It was 16 times. It is literally in the post directly above yours. LOL

Zags11
12-21-2017, 08:52 PM
If Mark Few benches Williams and Tillie from starting for lack of energy, then Perkins needs to sit out a game. He cost them another game. We had Nigel Goss Williams last year, Perkins canít handle it! Why canít Few see his short comings!!!!!!!

U high?

Perkins and melson were garbage today. So were some other no shows.

We lose last game if wasn't for Perkins. We lose probably a cpl more. When he fouled out vs UF it was a tie. We got housed in last ot without him.

The hate on Perkins is crazy. 15&5 and gets hated on like pendo who stomped and pouted like a 2yr old.









Lmao

GrizZAG
12-21-2017, 08:52 PM
Huh, I type so slow there were eight posts saying what I was going to say before I finished it. LOL!

Zags11
12-21-2017, 08:53 PM
Tillie disappears a lot for what we need. He disappears more then Perkins. Fouls a lot too.

MontanaCoyote
12-21-2017, 08:58 PM
Just going to say it; We are not a good team when we face a good team.

Above and beyond the usual critiques, primarily 3 pt D and TO's, I think three changes are critical. 1. We desperately need a real post presence like we had last year. Got to be Larsen. That presence simply isn't going to be there without him. Neither JWIII or Killie can provide enough. 2. We need somehow to replace the one-two leadership punch we had last year with Karno and Nigel.

Does anyone out there really think that either one would have tolerated or allowed the Helter Skelter we saw tonight?

3. Someone needs to light a fire under these guys. I wouldn't trade a single Zag that played real minutes in the game tonight with any Aztec player, but SDU players played harder and better. We should NEVER have to say that we got out hustled and didn't play as hard as the opposition, Never! Getting beat because the other team is better is one thing. Essentially not showing up and losing for not putting in your best effort is quite another.

I know the Zag's got back in the game by turning it up, but that won't be near good enough on down the road. It's a 40 minute game. 15 minutes just ain't going to cut it.

There's time to grow and improve. Here's hoping!

TexasZagFan
12-21-2017, 08:58 PM
I will re-watch this debacle again tomorrow, but I counted at least 9 times we were within two and had possession to tie or take the lead and failed. The dumb decision making tonight was beyond belief and it just continued most of the game. Many of those 3's USD fired up were so uncontested they had more than 10 feet of space to get set in. We should have figured out they could block those lob passes early on but nope, kept doing it over and over. i.e,..turnover after turnover. Why do we wait until panic time to trap, defend mightily, shoot the 3 fearlessly but continue to drive into traffic over and over with slight success? It was so indicative of Perkins game tonight that he finished missing back to back free throws then fouling out of the game. That was an exclamation mark on a night long meltdown for him. Tillie got the wind knocked out of him by the refs early. Frankly we should have had this game easily. What happened to the team that took Florida to two OT's and clobbered a good Creighton team? It was the UND game all over again but we didn't learn from it apparently.

Thanks for saving me the time...lol. I erased it a few nanoseconds after the final buzzer.

thickman1
12-21-2017, 09:02 PM
Emphasis to go high-low was evident in 2nd half and yet your best post passer (Larsen) is riding the pine. The Great Dane will also make some free throws, clog some space in the lane, and suck up some necessary fouls that were very much needed down stretch for Williams and Tillie.

I love Melson, but maybe Jones needs a little run at SG. A little bigger, ability to guard perimeter and better at getting to rim and finishing than Silas. Hopefully Jesse is getting better in practice because at some point this team will need him because Perks is going to be a shell of his former self come February. He’s logging waaay to many minutes.

RenoZag
12-21-2017, 09:03 PM
A one-two leadership punch ? How about a leader that leads by example and TAKES CARE OF THE G-DAMN BALL ?

Just a thought. . .

ZagOD7540
12-21-2017, 09:05 PM
Thanks for saving me the time...lol. I erased it a few nanoseconds after the final buzzer.

No way I could watch that again. My 5th grade boys team turns the ball over less that the Zags. These turnovers are a trend and will haunt the Zags throughout the season. I see no improvement in taking care of the ball.

Birddog
12-21-2017, 09:08 PM
Looking over the box score shows me the Zags lost the game in several ways but primarily at the line. Aztecs shot 81%, Zags 65% from the stripe. Zags had slightly better % from both 2 and 3.

Mantua
12-21-2017, 09:10 PM
Just going to say it; We are not a good team when we face a good team.

Above and beyond the usual critiques, primarily 3 pt D and TO's, I think three changes are critical. 1. We desperately need a real post presence like we had last year. Got to be Larsen. That presence simply isn't going to be there without him. Neither JWIII or Killie can provide enough. 2. We need somehow to replace the one-two leadership punch we had last year with Karno and Nigel.

Does anyone out there really think that either one would have tolerated or allowed the Helter Skelter we saw tonight?

3. Someone needs to light a fire under these guys. I wouldn't trade a single Zag that played real minutes in the game tonight with any Aztec player, but SDU players played harder and better. We should NEVER have to say that we got out hustled and didn't play as hard as the opposition, Never! Getting beat because the other team is better is one thing. Essentially not showing up and losing for not putting in your best effort is quite another.

I know the Zag's got back in the game by turning it up, but that won't be near good enough on down the road. It's a 40 minute game. 15 minutes just ain't going to cut it.

There's time to grow and improve. Here's hoping!

I agree with all of your points. I have couple more.

1. The ball needs to move more in the halfcourt. Moving without the ball is more effective than trying to pass over trees.

2. They need to be stronger taking care of the the ball.

That game was was so winnable!

Reborn
12-21-2017, 09:12 PM
First of all Gonzaga lost to a team that's really not very good. They shot 36% for the game and just 30% from behind the arc.
Zags didn't lose because San Diego played good, They did shoot good from the foul line where they hit 21-26 for 80%. This was where the game was won. Gonzaga shot 11-17 for 64 percent. And in the last minute Josh Perkins was 0-2 and Melson 1-2. These are supposed to be our leaders. Two losses now that we loss at the foul line in the last 30 seconds of the game. Zags lose by two, and make 1-4 from the line. Had we made those three misses we would have won.

2nd I thought Few coached a horrible game, IMO there is no reason to not play Larsen more. I'd say he played like 2-3 minutes all in first half. Rediculous. Nice to see that when he was in that Rui played at the 3. Melson was worthless tonight. And he too often is. When we need to play zone, and Melson can't hit the broad side of a barn, he should sit. He's not so effective at all in the zone. He wasn't boarding either.

Perkins with 6 turnovers, Zags with 16. Perkins was rediculous. He couldn't start on Selah's basketball team. AND that's how I feel about him.

I didn't like losing to Villanova but hell, they're no 1 in the country, and we had some fight in us the second half. We had a little fight in us the last few minutes of the game, but topped that off with totally stupidity on defense. It was obvious that whoever was guarding Kell, could not guard him, and Few, in his stubborn way, had to stick with that man to man.

3rd When your starting guards, and supposedly leaders, shoot a combined 4-19 for the game, and 2-11 from behind the arc for the game you will lose. Zags shoot 9-29 for around 31% from behind the arc for the game. That is half of their shots. The odd thing was is that they kept jacking them up even though it was obvious that they were off. Melson needs to get in the gym and correct his VERY POORs shooting technique, but I doubt that he will.

4th I'm tired of watching Tillie play. Talk about a guy with no energy and no ability to come every night and be willing to play basketball and play at 100% level. AND what upsets me is we have a guy like Larsen on the bench and not playing.

5. Last point. FEW is the head coach and is responsible for this kind of game. Can you tell me that Gonzaga was ready to play. They come out at the beginning of the game totally flat, turning the ball over like 4 times in the first minute or two. Yah. 11-0 start with 5 turnovers before they score. Few has defended these guys all year. Oh We're so tired. Oh we had finals this week. Is Gonzaga they only university in the USA that has finals before Christmas? Looking forward to see what Few does. I like the saying, "if you keep doing what you've been doing and get the same results." That is one definition of insanity. I think it's a time to change, but completely doubt that Few will.

Venting feels so good. ha ha ha I think it's been about 4 years since I've had to vent like this. But I will probably be able to sleep.

avid-zag-fan
12-21-2017, 09:19 PM
I'm in the "where's Larsen" camp. Melson and Perkins need some rest (32 minutes Max). Bring in Wade or move ZN to the 2 and have Jones or Rui or Kispert at the at the 3. ZN had a great game and JW3 had a good game as did Larsen. but other than that... it was one of the hardest games to watch in 10 or 12 years. terrible turn overs. there is no excuse for losing this game. I didn't like the refs but we still had no business losing this game.

zagbeliever
12-21-2017, 09:23 PM
Has anyone heard when Jesse will be in the line up? Is he better? His shot is a thing of beauty.

Goshzagit
12-21-2017, 09:23 PM
I can't explain Tillie.

The kid can be so bouncy, energetic, around every ball/reb/block, & even dominate at this level, then suddenly shows zero energy, interest, disappears, watches rather than plays.

I am seriously beginning to wonder or question his love for basketball.

It's so selective for him.

Zero passion for the game.

He can ball but seems more like a fun hobby for him, pick n choose his moments, something to do, naturally gifted, but doesn't like to bring it consistently.

It's like me and golf or rec league softball or bball.

I can bring it when I want, & do great on occasion, other times just shrug my shoulders and let others play hard when don't feel like it or not feeling I'm "on".

That's how Killian treats D1 basketball, imo, yet somehow he is still talked about amongst GM's, not scouts, as the perfect "utility man" in the NBA.

ZagOD7540
12-21-2017, 09:23 PM
I'm in the "where's Larsen" camp. Melson and Perkins need some rest (32 minutes Max). Bring in Wade or move ZN to the 2 and have Jones or Rui or Kispert at the at the 3. ZN had a great game and JW3 had a good game as did Larsen. but other than that... it was one of the hardest games to watch in 10 or 12 years. terrible turn overs. there is no excuse for losing this game. I didn't like the refs but we still had no business losing this game.

Does anyone truly know why Wade isn’t getting minutes in Melson’s spot? Is it the injury? Is he too small? Can he not crack the rotation? Melson is struggling and we need someone to drill that open 3.

ZagOD7540
12-21-2017, 09:27 PM
I can't explain Tillie.

The kid can be so bouncy, energetic, around every ball/reb/block, & even dominate at this level, then suddenly shows zero energy, interest, disappears, watches rather than plays.

I am seriously beginning to wonder or question his love for basketball.

It's so selective for him.

Zero passion for the game.

He can ball but seems more like a fun hobby for him, pick n choose his moments, something to do, naturally gifted, but doesn't like to bring it consistently.

It's like me and golf or rec league softball or bball.

I can bring it when I want, & do great on occasion, other times just shrug my shoulders and let others play hard when don't feel like it or not feeling I'm "on".

That's how Killian treats D1 basketball, imo, yet somehow he is still talked about amongst GM's, not scouts, as the perfect "utility man" in the NBA.

I hate to say it but I think both Tillie and J3 fed off of Shim and Collins last year. It’s just not there this year. Can they be the “go to” guys this season?...questionable

MontanaCoyote
12-21-2017, 09:39 PM
A one-two leadership punch ? How about a leader that leads by example and TAKES CARE OF THE G-DAMN BALL ?

Just a thought. . .

That would certainly help. Agreed. What I'm trying to say is that IMHO both Karno and Nigel met the highest standard of Leadership; They both made the players around them better.

I just don't think we have that on this team, at least not yet Are there potential Karno's and Nigel's
on this team? I don't know, but if there are it's time to forget being nice and time to get tough,
speak out and pull this team TOGETHER!!!:enraged:

Bullbuck55
12-21-2017, 09:44 PM
Agreed. Josh needs a wake up call. Start Wade against Pacific for 6-8 minutes and bring Perk off the bench.

Bullbuck55
12-21-2017, 09:52 PM
Agree with Reno and Montana. Williams tried to lead, especially the 5 minute mark and under. Josh is not a leader, at least vocally, and he certainly had no desire to take a shot in the last 3 minutes. Melson needs to step up. He's a great kid. He has the ability. He's just been a role player for too long. Those days are over. Melson, I believe in you ... step up your game.

Zagceo
12-21-2017, 09:54 PM
Rui plays 19min and goes 5 for 5 from the line with 1 TO 1 BLK 1 STL 1 PF....4-7 FG

They had no answer for Rui.....need to set up iso plays for him...drive and dish

Zags 10 blocks

players got tired at the end of the game and starting fouling instead of moving feet.

Perkins playing outta control with 6 TO as Aztecs only have 9 as a team

a few people are complaining about Refs.....we had 10 blocks to their 1.....Aztecs rewarded for aggressive play IMO.

sat 8 rows up and had no problems with refs

Bullbuck55
12-21-2017, 10:01 PM
Tillie has a love for the game and certainly the skill. Passion has highs and lows. Tillie makes too many silly fouls; kind of like Sabonis did his 1st year. Tillie did it last year, too, but with limited minutes and coming off the bench, he could get away with it. As a starter with limited depth, he can't do that this year. When he fouls now, it affects him badly, leading to more bad plays. Sabonis learned, Tillie will, too. He's a winner.

Bullbuck55
12-21-2017, 10:11 PM
Jesse is buried so deep on the bench that he might as well be in street clothes. I think until proven otherwise, especially with the weak showing the both Perk and Melson had tonight, he deserved a chance to spell both. Use him for Josh and also occasionally for Melson .... slide Perkins to the 2 and play Wade at point.

zagamatic
12-21-2017, 10:13 PM
Put simply, this team has the talent to thump San Diego State by 30 points on any given day on any court, but this team doesn't have it between the ears to make it happen. I have no gripes with Norvell, Larsen or Hachimura tonight, but everyone else from Few down to the rest of the rotation needs to figure out what they want. My biggest problems are 1) if Perkins wants to treat the ball as if he doesn't care if we have it, then he can sit on the bench behind literally anyone who wants to value the ball more. 2) JWIII also needs to value the ball AND actually play some real low post offense because it's clear that 3) Few is not going to play Larsen as much as he should (on this last one I will admit to not knowing the full extent of just how healthy Larsen's knee is)

Zags11
12-21-2017, 10:15 PM
If I was Perkins i pray he doesn't read this board. And if I did, I'd just be like lmao.

Ezag
12-21-2017, 10:15 PM
Man this team is Turnover City. Never seen a Zag team this careless before

Reborn
12-21-2017, 10:15 PM
I wonder why he's buried so deep And now it's also Kispert who is getting buried deep on the bench. It was obvious tonight that the Zags needed some outside shooting/ Yet he kept guys like Kispert and Wade on the bench. AND I will never understand why he kept Larsen on the bench/ Worst coaching job in years for Few. I think he's the one who needs the break.

Bullbuck55
12-21-2017, 10:16 PM
Well stated Griz.

Bullbuck55
12-21-2017, 10:26 PM
Zags11 maybe he should. No one is saying he can't play. He has an abundance of talent and ability. He just seems to go to sleep. He's the point guard on a D-1 bball team. He is the leader and leadership can be learned. He sets the example and tone for the offense that includes turnovers and poor decisions. Few leads from the bench and Perkins implements that from the floor.

Zags11
12-21-2017, 10:29 PM
Zags11 maybe he should. No one is saying he can't play. He has an abundance of talent and ability. He just seems to go to sleep. He's the point guard on a D-1 bball team. He is the leader and leadership can be learned. He sets the example and tone for the offense that includes turnovers and poor decisions. Few leads from the bench and Perkins implements that from the floor.

Sure and tonight he was bad.

Stat wise before tonight he had less turnovers then dickau and stepp and pangos. He avg 14.8 and 5.2. Goss 16 and 5.

So the hate is overboard. But be happy GUboard, your enemy struggled. Raise your glad up.

Zags11
12-21-2017, 10:50 PM
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cbk/....asp?id=122297

I see about 4-5 more losses and a sw16 exit if goss had this team instead of last yrs team. Some bad games. However he had the squad to back it up. Perkins doesn't.

Zags11
12-21-2017, 10:52 PM
Opp Result Min FGM FGA 3PM 3PA FTM FTA OR REB A Stl Blk TO PF Pts
11/11 UVU W 92-69 33 5 13 2 2 2 2 1 8 6 1 0 2 0 14
11/15 SDSU W 69-48 35 3 12 0 4 4 4 0 8 3 3 0 4 0 10
11/18 Bryant W 109-70 27 3 5 0 1 7 7 0 4 5 2 0 0 2 13
11/24 @Quinni W 82-62 33 3 7 0 2 2 2 1 6 8 3 0 2 0 8
11/25 @Fla W 77-72 33 5 12 1 3 3 4 0 5 3 1 0 4 5 14
11/27 IaSt W 73-71 37 6 10 6 8 0 0 0 4 4 0 0 2 1 18
12/1 MsVl W 97-63 22 5 8 2 3 1 2 0 1 5 3 0 3 0 13
12/3 @Ari W 69-62 32 3 8 1 3 3 4 0 6 3 1 0 3 3 10
12/7 Wash W 98-71 32 9 13 1 2 4 4 0 5 5 0 0 2 2 23
12/10 Akron W 61-43 33 3 7 0 2 5 6 0 3 5 1 0 2 2 11
12/18 @Tenn W 86-76 32 7 12 0 1 6 7 1 9 6 2 0 2 4 20
12/21 SouDak W 102-65 25 6 13 2 4 0 0 1 9 5 1 0 0 1 14
12/29 Pepper W 92-62 33 6 16 2 6 2 2 0 6 3 4 0 3 1 16
12/31 @Pac W 81-61 32 4 10 1 5 0 0 1 6 5 2 0 4 1 9
1/5 @SanFr W 95-80 35 12 15 3 4 9 9 1 11 6 1 0 1 1 36
1/12 LyMnt W 93-55 29 4 11 1 3 2 2 2 4 5 2 0 2 1 11
1/14 StMry W 79-56 38 8 14 1 3 2 3 0 3 6 2 0 1 0 19
1/19 @SantaC W 88-57 30 4 9 0 2 3 4 2 10 3 2 0 1 1 11
1/21 Por W 73-52 32 3 11 1 6 8 10 0 2 3 1 0 1 2 15
1/23 @Por W 83-64 26 2 9 0 2 0 0 0 2 5 1 0 1 2 4
1/26 SD W 79-43 26 11 15 2 3 1 2 0 5 5 2 0 0 1 25
1/28 @Pepper W 96-49 26 6 9 0 2 0 0 0 6 8 1 0 1 2 12
2/2 @BYU W 85-75 40 12 18 2 6 7 7 0 7 4 3 0 2 1 33
2/9 @LyMnt W 90-60 27 5 8 0 0 9 10 2 11 2 1 0 3 1 19
2/11 @StMry W 74-64 29 3 8 0 0 8 8 0 3 3 3 0 1 2 14
2/16 SanFr W 96-61 34 10 14 4 6 6 6 1 6 7 3 0 4 2 30
2/18 Pac W 82-61 32 5 10 0 3 8 8 0 5 7 2 0 4 1 18
2/23 @SD W 96-38 28 5 10 1 2 3 3 0 6 5 0 0 3 2 14
2/25 BYU L 71-79 38 7 17 0 3 5 5 0 2 3 1 0 4 2 19
3/4 Pac W 82-50 35 7 11 1 1 5 5 1 6 4 0 0 1 3 20
3/6 SantaC W 77-68 38 9 13 1 1 6 8 2 8 5 1 0 3 0 25
3/7 StMry W 74-56 36 6 11 0 1 10 10 0 6 6 6 1 2 1 22
3/16 SDakSt W 66-46 37 4 13 0 3 1 2 0 7 4 1 0 1 2 9
3/18 NW W 79-73 36 6 19 1 4 7 8 2 8 4 2 0 3 1 20
3/23 WVU W 61-58 38 2 10 0 1 6 8 1 7 2 3 1 5 4 10
3/25 Xavier W 83-59 37 7 19 4 7 5 8 0 8 4 2 1 0 1 23
4/1 SC W 77-73 36 9 16 2 5 3 3 1 5 6 0 0 3 2 23
4/3 @UNC L 65-71 39 5 17 1 3 4 8 2 9 6 0 0 2 3 15

CDC84
12-21-2017, 11:03 PM
I keep going back to this, but this team just hasn't been the same since Corey Kispert injured his ankle. It is just not getting well. Corey does more things "well" on the floor than any Zag. He is also a very good three point shooter. Although it is fantastic that Norvell has stepped up big time, this is a thin team, and the Zags need all hands on deck. GU really needs to get Kispert well soon.

Few has a big issue on his hands in that he doesn't have a backup point guard. I firmly believe that if GU had, say, a juco PG to backup Josh, Few would've sat Josh for four or five minutes to allow him to collect himself. But Few can't do that. Melson is not a point guard, and it has become apparent that Jesse Wade is just not ready, physically or mentally. The Zags are going to have to live or die with Perks. I know he stunk tonight, but Zag fans need to remember all the big shots he's hit this year and his overall stats going into tonight's game. 2 to 1 A/T ratio, and high shooting percentages from three and the field. However, I have major worries about his body running down by the end of WCC play. With their play vs. North Dakota and SDSU tonight, I don't think the non-SMC/BYU games are gimmes anymore until Kispert regains his health and the Zags stop turning the ball over like crazy.

I have no idea why GU is turning the ball over so much. And they are doing it in a variety of ways. Few has been harping on it since the start of the season. And it's not just the perimeters folks. It's JWIII, Tillie, etc.

I still feel the Zags are not taking advantage of Tillie enough in the offense. He is too gifted and talented to be just shooting corner threes and the occasional floater. JWIII was getting triple teamed tonight because nothing was ever really being run for Tillie. Not sure where the issue is.

I like Silas Melson, but it has become apparent that he is a good backup guard on a top 25 team.

I mentioned in another thread that Norvell reminds of Pangos in that he is extremely streaky from three as an underclassman. Pangos was exactly the same way his first two years or so. However, what Zach has that Pangos never had is an elite ability to drive and finish in traffic against high level athletes. Once ZN gets a more consistent three pointer, and learns to play better defense, well, he's going to be very special. You can't teach a player to have the killer instinct that he does possess.

I had a bad feeling about this game. SDSU serves no purpose but to ugly up basketball games. The Zags simply don't want to play that way. That combined with the game being on the road and a bunch of guys with little experience or veterans playing new roles (and possibly not being good enough to handle them)....well, it was just a perfect storm of events.

On to conference play.

Zags11
12-21-2017, 11:03 PM
Lose to wvu in sw16 if he Perkins.
10pts. 2-10 shooting. 5 turnovers and 2 assists.

4pts. 2-9 shooting vs Portland. 3 ass and 1 to.

9pts. 4-13 shooting vs SDSU

15pts. 5-17 shooting vs NC

9pts. 3-12 shooting vs SDSU on 2nd game of yr. 3 assists and 4 turnovers.

15pts. 3-11 shooting vs Portland at home.

20pts. 6-19 shooting vs NW.

11.7ppg on 27.4% shooting.

Team record 6-1. If you think we go 6-1 with Perkins doing that? Your high. Probably 2-5.

Saxon_zag
12-21-2017, 11:08 PM
and it has become apparent that Jesse Wade is just not ready, physically or mentally. .

Not sure how we came to this conclusion, I think he should be given a shot.

He scored the same amount of field goals tonight in his 25 seconds of play as Perkins did in his 37 mins. Couldn't hurt.

CDC84
12-21-2017, 11:16 PM
He's not healthy Saxon. That is clearly a big reason why he is not getting any meaningful run. He's only playing when he is less likely to further hurt his shoulder. And he has been away from organized ball for ages. I would be highly surprised if he sees much run this season. Rarely have you ever seen Few throw a guy like Wade into the rotation mid-season. As long as GU keeps winning most of its games, things will continue as usual.

Saxon_zag
12-21-2017, 11:27 PM
He's not healthy Saxon. That is clearly a big reason why he is not getting any meaningful run. He's only playing when he is less likely to further hurt his shoulder. And he has been away from organized ball for ages. I would be highly surprised if he sees much run this season. Rarely have you ever seen Few throw a guy like Wade into the rotation mid-season. As long as GU keeps winning most of its games, things will continue as usual.

If his shoulder was really a major concern why wouldn't they burn Ayayi's redshirt at the start of the year? 1 Ball handler all year is what Few was down to go with? The being out of organized ball thing I buy but I think playing him 10-15 mins serves our long term interests much better and could help Josh out. But you're right the chances of that happening seem low at this point if we judge Few off past seasons rotations.

seacatfan
12-21-2017, 11:36 PM
GU should've gotten some advice from BYU. Somehow their guys returning from missions don't seem to be rusty and are good to go being plugged into the rotation right away. Maybe not every one of them, but more often than not. There must be some kind of secret to it.

Saxon_zag
12-21-2017, 11:45 PM
GU should've gotten some advice from BYU. Somehow their guys returning from missions don't seem to be rusty and are good to go being plugged into the rotation right away. Maybe not every one of them, but more often than not. There must be some kind of secret to it.

Seriously.

We need to play the BYU game better. Start getting him his minutes now and by 2021 we have a baller 29 year old Senior PG like all the bald Seniors they have:)

zagsfanforlife
12-21-2017, 11:46 PM
Some of the worst play i have ever seen from a zags squad in my 20 years as a fan. That was awful-- we should have beat that team by 20.

siliconzag
12-22-2017, 12:33 AM
SDSU serves no purpose but to ugly up basketball games. The Zags simply don't want to play that way. That combined with the game being on the road and a bunch of guys with little experience or veterans playing new roles (and possibly not being good enough to handle them)....well, it was just a perfect storm of events.

On to conference play.[/QUOTE]

siliconzag
12-22-2017, 12:39 AM
SDSU serves no purpose but to ugly up basketball games. The Zags simply don't want to play that way. That combined with the game being on the road and a bunch of guys with little experience or veterans playing new roles (and possibly not being good enough to handle them)....well, it was just a perfect storm of events.

.

Well said. CDC84

Oh SDSU, How do I hate thee? Let me but count the ways!They always dictate the pace of the game, and they love beating finesse teams. If you get in a street fight it's best not to act like a choir boy. Let this one go Zag fans. A stinker every once in awhile happens. Just like it did to my Bluejays in Spokane. When you're hot you're hot and when you're not you're not.

Zag79
12-22-2017, 01:03 AM
Refs were terrible all night. Blocks instead of charges on Tillie and Norvell were ridiculous.

Agree with much of what you said, the refs were clearly in favor of the home team. The sky isn't even close to falling. Few had a bad game, as did the guys. Needed to go bigger, and stop shooting threes. Clean it up a little, and this is a win period.

Zags11
12-22-2017, 01:04 AM
Some of the worst play i have ever seen from a zags squad in my 20 years as a fan. That was awful-- we should have beat that team by 20.

Was it worse then when we lost to 11-20 Loyola? Or 17-14 SF? Or PSU at home? Or double digit loss wcc teams?

Outraged
12-22-2017, 04:26 AM
That was one ugly game. I don't know why Perks was off. Sick, too much Kool Aide, bad shoulder? He needs to learn not to look so bad when he is bad it's contagious.

Not Ready to give up on him but when he plays Bad looks even worse.This is where a couple minutes of David Stockton would be helpful. I hope wade makes it soon so that we can give Perks more reset minutes on the bench.

Waiting for a krispert, Novel, Wade set when they're all healthy. I would like to see what three to five minutes of them can do.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-22-2017, 04:44 AM
I agree with all of your points. I have couple more.

1. The ball needs to move more in the halfcourt. Moving without the ball is more effective than trying to pass over trees.

2. They need to be stronger taking care of the the ball.

That game was was so winnable!

I started reading this thread from the beginning just now but stopping here.

Zags’ offense looked so tentative, predictable and unimaginative. The ball isn’t moving fast enough.

I believe this team needs Larsen and Wade playing meaningful minutes to be the best version of itself. Perkins needs in-game rest and coaching; Larsen is impacting games and he allows JWIII minutes as a PF.

Why don’t the coaches play Larsen or Wade more? Why not now?

RenoZag
12-22-2017, 04:45 AM
Zags left a lump of coal in our Christmas stocking last night. Santa Few and his elves spent more time making turnovers than toys.

After PK80, my expectations of the team moved up a notch; after the Viejas debacle last nigt, I'm back to "Hope they win the league, Vegas tourney, and see what happens from there."

They are still a work in process, not finished goods.

mnzag24
12-22-2017, 04:50 AM
Silly turnovers cost us the game.

This is the most frustrating part of the season for me, to date. Stupid, bonehead turnovers that seem to stem from a lack of focus. Cleaning that up fixes a lot of issues.

thespywhozaggedme
12-22-2017, 05:57 AM
I wonder why he's buried so deep And now it's also Kispert who is getting buried deep on the bench. It was obvious tonight that the Zags needed some outside shooting/ Yet he kept guys like Kispert and Wade on the bench. AND I will never understand why he kept Larsen on the bench/ Worst coaching job in years for Few. I think he's the one who needs the break.

Yup, I said it in the game thread. Players have off nights and coaches do too. Last night few really blew it by not exploiting the mismatch with Larsen. I wonder if anyone in the media will ask him about that.

JPtheBeasta
12-22-2017, 06:00 AM
GU should've gotten some advice from BYU. Somehow their guys returning from missions don't seem to be rusty and are good to go being plugged into the rotation right away. Maybe not every one of them, but more often than not. There must be some kind of secret to it.

They probably start with avoiding dislocated shoulders.

JPtheBeasta
12-22-2017, 06:02 AM
Yup, I said it in the game thread. Players have off nights and coaches do too. Last night few really blew it by not exploiting the mismatch with Larsen. I wonder if anyone in the media will ask him about that.

Few was going to take Norvell out a couple of days ago before he went off for a bunch of points, but Norvell missed a free throw and had to be kept in the game and the rest is history. Even some of the best coaches decisions are accidents. I do think he forgot about Larsen and would like to hear someone ask about it.

HenneZag
12-22-2017, 06:44 AM
All this talk about Jesse Wade being unathletic,a liability on defense, not quick enough to keep up with elite guards etc. We said the same thing about David Stockton, even Pangos for that matter. We need a backup option when things are spiraling down. Why not bring Wade in to see if he can provide a spark, hit a couple shots etc. We played horrible last night, but a couple of shots going down could've changed to whole trajectory of that game. Give Wade some more minutes please!!

WallaWallaZag
12-22-2017, 06:48 AM
this team seems to have taken a big step backwards since the UW game...even the win against iupui was less than impressive...not sure what happened. an occasional game like nova is understandable, three stinkers in a row is not...looks like the zags have a good chance of losing any game where the opponent doesn't just run up and down the court with them.

raise the zag
12-22-2017, 06:54 AM
still scratching my head at 4 things:

1. why didn't Few call a time out when they went up 11-0?

2. why didn't Few call a time out when we were within 1 pt for 16 possessions and couldn't tie or take the lead. that is like an end of game scenario. critical moment. take the lead gets in their head and our head. rally mode. momentum. he consistently let them play on and/or spiral out of control. Did he want the game to end? Did he not want to be there?

3. Our big lineup toward end of 2nd half, with Rui at the 3, and Larsen playing a few mins went on a HUGE run, yet never saw it again the rest of the game.

4. Larsen was clearly disruptive. blocking easy shots at the rim, getting tough rebounds, but only played 3 mins and never again in 2nd half. Odd.

GrizZAG
12-22-2017, 07:05 AM
Ok, we have vented to infinity now so let's talk about what we might see that could be constructive thought about this team. Here are a few thoughts after thinking this through a bit.

1) We have some chemistry issues being missed. I re-watch these games and it is clear there is a strong Larsen - Tillie connection we are not capitalizing on. J3 , Tillie and Rui out of sync too often. What else?

2) Perkins is a lousy passer. Yes it works at times but certainly not elite passing skills. It appears he is trying to do the no look pass too often without actually getting it to his player effectively to often. In general our passing is not crisp with care. Some of these teams we have played put on a clinic in this area. We do not. It's spotty. Our lob passes have been just awful of late.

3) 3 point shooting was touted as a dangerous threat by this team early on but it is as if Few has told them not to shoot it. The pattern seems to be we shoot it early in games and then in desperation at the end of games but avoid too much during the bulk of the game. Play to your strength I think it goes...
When Larson is there we execute better IMO.

4) A few of our guys get too emotionally sequestered by the bad calls refs make on them. Seems this is a coaching moment issue as these guys need to keep their head in the game and brush it off. Something like the above poster noted about his golf game, great analogy.

5) Leaving assets on the bench....these are real head scratchers. I know Few likes to use negative and positive re-enforcement but at the expense of games??

What do you want to see addressed, improved or simply share observations. Go forward but learn.

hooter73
12-22-2017, 07:22 AM
#FreeWade

Tillie does not play like a starter or a player with start minutes, yank his butt down until he can figure it out. Perkins is the best point guard we've got. Melson is the best defensive guard we've got. You arent going to get better from who we have available. Kispert is hurt which kills the whole team based on how good we were when he was good to go. Norvell flirts with being a chucker but at least has the willingness to take it to a team. I am wholeheartedly a Wade believer but if the coaches aren't playing him I trust its for a reason. I think the coaches will get something figured out and do the best with what we've got but its just obvious at this point what we've got is a step backward from the upward trend previous GU teams were on. I'm not looking ahead to next year just yet but another game or two like last night and I sure will be. Maybe a peek in at some of the elite guards we've been recruiting will help...

willandi
12-22-2017, 07:24 AM
4) A few of our guys get too emotionally sequestered by the bad calls refs make on them. Seems this is a coaching moment issue as these guys need to keep their head in the game and brush it off. Something like the above poster noted about his golf game, great analogy.


I think this happens with Tillie. He had a couple of head scratching calls against him last night, phantom ones, and he has to wonder what will happen if he actually tries to drive and defend. The calls take him out of his game, in my opinion. It COULD be a coaching moment, and should be, but if the refs continue to make phantom calls, it doesn't matter how much you coach. The play will be tentative, or he will foul out.

GrizZAG
12-22-2017, 07:28 AM
I think this happens with Tillie. He had a couple of head scratching calls against him last night, phantom ones, and he has to wonder what will happen if he actually tries to drive and defend. The calls take him out of his game, in my opinion. It COULD be a coaching moment, and should be, but if the refs continue to make phantom calls, it doesn't matter how much you coach. The play will be tentative, or he will foul out.

Exactly

Zagceo
12-22-2017, 07:34 AM
still scratching my head at 4 things:

1. why didn't Few call a time out when they went up 11-0?

2. why didn't Few call a time out when we were within 1 pt for 16 possessions and couldn't tie or take the lead. that is like an end of game scenario. critical moment. take the lead gets in their head and our head. rally mode. momentum. he consistently let them play on and/or spiral out of control. Did he want the game to end? Did he not want to be there?

3. Our big lineup toward end of 2nd half, with Rui at the 3, and Larsen playing a few mins went on a HUGE run, yet never saw it again the rest of the game.

4. Larsen was clearly disruptive. blocking easy shots at the rim, getting tough rebounds, but only played 3 mins and never again in 2nd half. Odd.

Zags have multiple coaches on the bench.....must be at least 1 coach tracking real time line ups results and reporting them to all coaches....Don't ya think?

The eye test was gonna enough for me... more Larsen/Rui

MontanaCoyote
12-22-2017, 07:47 AM
[QUOTE=MontanaCoyote;1347511]That would certainly help. Agreed. What I'm trying to say is that IMHO both Karno and Nigel met the highest standard of Leadership; They both made the players around them better.

I just don't think we have that on this team, at least not yet Are there potential Karno's and Nigel's
on this team? I don't know, but if there are it's time to forget being nice and time to get tough,
speak out and pull this team TOGETHER!!!:enraged:[/QUOTE

This AM I woke thinking that Kispert is the most likely leader in the mold of Karno and Nigel. Just seems to have the potential and capacity to light a fire under the guys and assert some disipline. Can't light the fire if he's not playing though.
Hope to see more of him, both for his talent and leadership.

WallaWallaZag
12-22-2017, 08:09 AM
[QUOTE=MontanaCoyote;1347511]That would certainly help. Agreed. What I'm trying to say is that IMHO both Karno and Nigel met the highest standard of Leadership; They both made the players around them better.

I just don't think we have that on this team, at least not yet Are there potential Karno's and Nigel's
on this team? I don't know, but if there are it's time to forget being nice and time to get tough,
speak out and pull this team TOGETHER!!!:enraged:[/QUOTE

This AM I woke thinking that Kispert is the most likely leader in the mold of Karno and Nigel. Just seems to have the potential and capacity to light a fire under the guys and assert some disipline. Can't light the fire if he's not playing though.
Hope to see more of him, both for his talent and leadership.

just too hard for a freshman to take a leadership role unless they are a one-and-done type talent...especially when several other starters are upperclassmen.

john montana
12-22-2017, 08:27 AM
Perkins stunk last night, so we lost. I really think it is as simple as that. Perk is the key for this team because we flat out don't have a back up PG ready to go (Wade is not the answer this year from what I have seen...not even close. The kid can shoot, but has shown 0 flashes of being able to handle the ball against pressure and run a team). Even with Perk having a terrible game I think we win if Kispert could move (clearly hampered...not moving with any fluidity) or if the refs had called that charge that Norvell took down the stretch.

When Perk takes care of the ball and knocks down shots the offense moves and flows. When he picks up his dribble and makes passes 1-2 seconds later than when he is in the flow, the offense stagnates. JW3 needs things moving as he isn't a Karno type on the block.

We'll play better, but bottom line is we need Perkins to simplify things and take care of the ball.

MontanaCoyote
12-22-2017, 08:34 AM
[QUOTE=MontanaCoyote;1347666]

just too hard for a freshman to take a leadership role unless they are a one-and-done type talent...especially when several other starters are upperclassmen.

You are right. I guess I was looking more at the type of person/player I think he is rather than the likelihood that he could actually do it (given your post). The need for Karno/Nigel style leadership is so critical that maybe I was grasping at straws.
I think it's in him though, if not now on down the line.

Who else? You got me. Maybe it will simply be up to Few to crack the whip. But this (what I call) Helter Skelter play has got to stop or we'll be going nowhere worth going to!

bartruff1
12-22-2017, 08:36 AM
Perkins stunk last night, so we lost. I really think it is as simple as that. Perk is the key for this team because we flat out don't have a back up PG ready to go (Wade is not the answer this year from what I have seen...not even close. The kid can shoot, but has shown 0 flashes of being able to handle the ball against pressure and run a team). Even with Perk having a terrible game I think we win if Kispert could move (clearly hampered...not moving with any fluidity) or if the refs had called that charge that Norvell took down the stretch.

When Perk takes care of the ball and knocks down shots the offense moves and flows. When he picks up his dribble and makes passes 1-2 seconds later than when he is in the flow, the offense stagnates. JW3 needs things moving as he isn't a Karno type on the block.

We'll play better, but bottom line is we need Perkins to simplify things and take care of the ball.

Or make a few shots....not worried, this team has 9 quality players and will be fine...

WallaWallaZag
12-22-2017, 08:38 AM
Perkins stunk last night, so we lost. I really think it is as simple as that. Perk is the key for this team because we flat out don't have a back up PG ready to go (Wade is not the answer this year from what I have seen...not even close. The kid can shoot, but has shown 0 flashes of being able to handle the ball against pressure and run a team). Even with Perk having a terrible game I think we win if Kispert could move (clearly hampered...not moving with any fluidity) or if the refs had called that charge that Norvell took down the stretch.

When Perk takes care of the ball and knocks down shots the offense moves and flows. When he picks up his dribble and makes passes 1-2 seconds later than when he is in the flow, the offense stagnates. JW3 needs things moving as he isn't a Karno type on the block.

We'll play better, but bottom line is we need Perkins to simplify things and take care of the ball.

it's unfortunate and a bit unfair, but as others have said...this team will go as far as perkins takes it...

WallaWallaZag
12-22-2017, 08:40 AM
[QUOTE=WallaWallaZag;1347673]

You are right. I guess I was looking more at the type of person/player I think he is rather than the likelihood that he could actually do it (given your post). The need for Karno/Nigel style leadership is so critical that maybe I was grasping at straws.
I think it's in him though, if not now on down the line.

Who else? You got me. Maybe it will simply be up to Few to crack the whip. But this (what I call) Helter Skelter play has got to stop or we'll be going nowhere worth going to!

there isn't an alpha-type leader on this team...is it necessary to make a deep run? not sure...maybe they can figure it out collectively

Zags11
12-22-2017, 08:47 AM
It was tough loss.

Only 3 showed up in my books.

MontanaCoyote
12-22-2017, 08:58 AM
[QUOTE=MontanaCoyote;1347684]

there isn't an alpha-type leader on this team...is it necessary to make a deep run? not sure...maybe they can figure it out collectively

Here's hoping, WallaWalla!

hooter73
12-22-2017, 08:59 AM
(Wade is not the answer this year from what I have seen...not even close. The kid can shoot, but has shown 0 flashes of being able to handle the ball against pressure and run a team).

when have you seen it? he hasnt played more than a minute and a half at the end of a game during a blow out yet. we can assume a lot about what that means, but we dont KNOW anything.

amaronizag
12-22-2017, 09:08 AM
Every year (except last year) GU collapses to give away games they should have won, making our path to the dance much more tortuous. But we bounce back and cut as wide a swath as the talent allows. Machines and brains both have wiring, but kids and brains are not machines. Brains and bodies have wide swings in performance. Ask any golfer on the PGA tour. One week you're splitting every fairway and dropping every putt. The next week you can't make the cut. That is the nature of sports and humans. These young men love the game and are probably humiliated and frustrated by last nights loss. They will dedicate all of their time to not repeating last night performance. But there are no guarantees. I still believe in this team and think they will make the sweet 16. I will continue to believe that until they prove me wrong.

I have no idea what the injury status is with Wade, Larsen or Kispert, BUT...... I think we have some people on the team that could shake it up if Few had the inclination to shake it up.
1) Start Norvell at point guard
2) Start Perkins at the 2 but share at the 1 as he did when Goss was here.
3) Start Melson at the 3, but give Melson a little less time and Kispert about equal time if he earns it.
4) Start Larsen at the 5 and move J3 to the 4 where he belongs.
5) Bring in Tillie to sub at the 4 and 5 like he did last year and Rui in to sub at the 3 and 4 so all of those players are getting about 20 minutes per game. Adjust game to game depending on match-ups and who is hot.

I don't think Wade is ready for prime time yet due to injury, development, or both. He may be destined to spend this year improving his game by subbing in during limited minutes. Few always tightens up the roster this time of year so I think his role may be set for the year.

TacomaZAG
12-22-2017, 09:14 AM
With all this carping bout the refs, I'm surprised this one call wasn't mentioned. I am talking about the foul call at the shot clock buzzer when Rui blocked the shot at the rim as the shot clock was expiring. As it turned out, the foul call was on Melson, on the scrum after the block. So, that being the case, the shot clock had to be expired as there was less than a second on the shot clock when Rui blocked the shot. The announcers didn't mention anything about it, so it seemed like a horribly blown call. By-the-way, SDSU made both FT's after the call.

Overall, I thought the refs called it about as expected. The home team gets all the close calls, just like the ZAGS at the Kennel.

Go ZAGS

john montana
12-22-2017, 09:14 AM
when have you seen it? he hasnt played more than a minute and a half at the end of a game during a blow out yet. we can assume a lot about what that means, but we dont KNOW anything.

Even in garbage time he has barely handled the ball, deferring to Norvell early this year to handle it. He hasn't played a ton of minutes but you would think we would see a flash or two of floor generalship if he had that in his game right now at this level. If he was capable I think he'd be playing more because he can clearly shoot the lights out. I'm hoping he can build off of his shooting and be a lot more for us next year than it looks like he will be this year.

Zagceo
12-22-2017, 09:23 AM
With all this carping bout the refs, I'm surprised this one call wasn't mentioned. I am talking about the foul call at the shot clock buzzer when Rui blocked the shot at the rim as the shot clock was expiring. As it turned out, the foul call was on Melson, on the scrum after the block. So, that being the case, the shot clock had to be expired as there was less than a second on the shot clock when Rui blocked the shot. The announcers didn't mention anything about it, so it seemed like a horribly blown call. By-the-way, SDSU made both FT's after the call.

Overall, I thought the refs called it about as expected. The home team gets all the close calls, just like the ZAGS at the Kennel.

Go ZAGS

in the stadium .....refs went to monitor and determined no shot clock violation....no replay in stadium of THAT play which led me to believe it was a violation.

hooter73
12-22-2017, 09:39 AM
I HIGHLY suspect he has been directed to differ and spread the ball around instead of doing what has been natural to him on the basketball court. Which I really dont get because that was what he was recruited doing. Make no mistake, he is a score first PG but he can handle the ball and distribute.

TacomaZAG
12-22-2017, 09:43 AM
in the stadium .....refs went to monitor and determined no shot clock violation....no replay in stadium of THAT play which led me to believe it was a violation.

Thanks, CEO...........After the monitor review, No replay on TV either. Agree with your reasoning.

Go ZAGS