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Zags11
12-18-2017, 10:22 PM
We looked really good IMO. Refs slowed the game down and tried to dirty it up. Tillie was awesome.

former1dog
12-18-2017, 10:37 PM
Dribble drive defense has become a real problem. I’m concerned that Perkins had to play 35+ minutes in a 30 point blow out on top of a big OT effort 2 days ago leading up to one of GU’s biggest games left on the regular season calendar.

sittingon50
12-18-2017, 10:50 PM
Norvell only took 3 shots in 25 minutes? Holy Toledo!!


JIII 5-9 from the line. Rest of the Zags 20-20!

Zagger
12-19-2017, 05:23 AM
It was nice to see Kispert getting back into it, J2 getting more mins & baskets and a 3 from Wade :)

DixieZag
12-19-2017, 05:32 AM
I didn't even see the game bc I had enough faith that after the showing against No Da that they would be playing for their scholarship lives in this game.

Really, though, it is near impossible to judge against a 200 plus RPI team.

The real test will be tomorrow night when they go against a top 75 on the road. Will Tillie bring that kind of motor for 40 minutes? Does anyone else feel like he has All-American game next year (if he stayed), IF IF he could make his motor and ADD focus for 40 minutes? He can be so good. Bring it Thursday.

JWIII? See Tillie.

GrizZAG
12-19-2017, 06:28 AM
Iffy whistles last night. Made the game tough to get any flow thus boring. Sloppy passing, too much dribble are a concern.

Birddog
12-19-2017, 06:38 AM
After the buzzer I was thinking that the game was really choppy. Hard to believe that would be the descriptor when the Zags win by thirty and score over a hundred.

Zagceo
12-19-2017, 07:04 AM
observation from last night....noticed players from both sides had a good lather going early and often. Can anyone confirm if MAC was warmer last night vs UND game?

jazzdelmar
12-19-2017, 07:12 AM
I didn't even see the game bc I had enough faith that after the showing against No Da that they would be playing for their scholarship lives in this game.

Really, though, it is near impossible to judge against a 200 plus RPI team.

The real test will be tomorrow night when they go against a top 75 on the road. Will Tillie bring that kind of motor for 40 minutes? Does anyone else feel like he has All-American game next year (if he stayed), IF IF he could make his motor and ADD focus for 40 minutes? He can be so good. Bring it Thursday.

JWIII? See Tillie.

The "motor" issue isn't as easily rectified as other shortcomings. Sometimes it never gets resolved. It's not like shooting fouls. Still, Tils has ridiculous potential and it would be sad if he didn't harness his talent.

hooter73
12-19-2017, 07:28 AM
IUPUI is ranked #288. I dont get the refreshed perspective. We were within ten or fifteen points most of the game. Perkins had to play way too many minutes and yeah a couple guys had some big numbers, but they dont seem to have those big numbers against good teams.

kitzbuel
12-19-2017, 08:02 AM
I didn't even see the game bc I had enough faith that after the showing against No Da that they would be playing for their scholarship lives in this game.

Really, though, it is near impossible to judge against a 200 plus RPI team.

The real test will be tomorrow night when they go against a top 75 on the road. Will Tillie bring that kind of motor for 40 minutes? Does anyone else feel like he has All-American game next year (if he stayed), IF IF he could make his motor and ADD focus for 40 minutes? He can be so good. Bring it Thursday.

JWIII? See Tillie.

I honestly don't see Tillie jumping this year because of his tendency to vanish at times. He has been spectacular in blowouts, but fairly pedestrian in close games or losses. He has to show up during big games, not just against Utah St and IUPUI.

WallaWallaZag
12-19-2017, 08:08 AM
IUPUI is ranked #288. I dont get the refreshed perspective. We were within ten or fifteen points most of the game. Perkins had to play way too many minutes and yeah a couple guys had some big numbers, but they dont seem to have those big numbers against good teams.

this game should have been over by halftime and bench should of been in with 10 to play...especially after north dakota debacle. maybe still getting their sea legs back under them...will find out fast vs sdsu

STIETZ543
12-19-2017, 08:19 AM
I was amazed GU scored 100 points because IMO it wasn't a pretty game and was so sloppy. We still looked lost many times on defense. Kisperts man was wide open so many times. The turnovers are crazy and no way IUPUI should score 70 on GU! Glad we got the W and love this team but stuff needs to start getting cleaned up.

MontanaCoyote
12-19-2017, 08:59 AM
Dribble drive defense has become a real problem. I’m concerned that Perkins had to play 35+ minutes in a 30 point blow out on top of a big OT effort 2 days ago leading up to one of GU’s biggest games left on the regular season calendar.

Yes! Too many points lost in the paint off drives. No "Mountain in the middle." Last year how many penetrations weren't attempted simply because there was a Mountain in waiting? How to address this problem is something I know nothing about without getting a new Mountain. But something needs to be done. I think a long run depends on it.

Any Ideas?

Zagricultural
12-19-2017, 09:01 AM
I wasn't happy at all with the defensive rebounding in the second half. Also thought Jones got way too much run. Happy with the final score, and Tillie was awesome!

amaronizag
12-19-2017, 09:02 AM
Hard to figure out last nights game. Not sure I like Zach playing the 3. He disappears in the corner. I like it better when he plays the 1 or 2 where he makes things happen with passes, dribble drive, or shooting 3's. It's a total waste sticking him in the corner. I think Zach needs to spell Josh at the 1, and in the starting rotation Silas needs to play the 3 and Zach the 2. Not sure if Few reigned him in a bit, if his floor position resulted in lower numbers all around, or what, but he just didn't contribute much offensively last night. Hard to judge with cupcake opponents, but his defense seems to be improving. He made a lot of nice hustle and defensive plays last night. He has a bit of Draino and Hart in him in the way he runs all over the floor chasing the ball, chasing rebounds, and getting his hands into plays for deflections. He isn't in their class yet, but he has the potential to get there with his incredible knack for being wherever the ball goes. I love all of those defections!!!

As much as I like Kispert, he's way out of position on defense at times, and sometimes totally loses his man. I'm sure it's partly due to the injury, but his lateral motion wasn't good last night either. I thought there was some improvement on defense before his injury, but his defense was lacking again last night. I like that he never forces anything, takes what scoring opportunities the game brings him, knocks down 3's, and is a threat to slash to the hoop. Rui is stuck in low gear and the offense doesn't seem to give him much opportunity. He's solid on offensive rebounds, put-backs, aly-oops, dunks, and the fast break so I guess that will be his role. His passing is OK too. If he rebounds and blocks some shots he won't be a liability. Glad to see Tillie and J3 step up last night, but the opponents were small. Josh is playing good defense and his over-all play is solid. Silas played great defense and was relatively quiet on offense.

Goshzagit
12-19-2017, 09:26 AM
Tough to overlook 17 TO's.

We could have scored 120 without all the sloppy, silly passes and fouls.

We committed 17 TO's vs UND as well.

Not good.

DYK St Mary's leads the nation #1 in the least amt of TO's per game (8 topg)?

Gonzaga is currently tied for 197th (14 topg).

Even 4 less TO's per game could result in a 10 pt swing. Amazing.

kitzbuel
12-19-2017, 09:45 AM
I wasn't happy at all with the defensive rebounding in the second half.

A feature of the zone.

Mr Vulture
12-19-2017, 10:27 AM
Only on this board would people be down on a 30pt win...even if it was against a weaker opponent. From what I was watching, there were many calls against us that were questionable at best. Including a series of charges that came one after another with about 10 minutes to go. This is when North Dakota cut the lead from 19 to 11 and caused players to play more minutes. Regardless, we will beat SD State handily on the road...watch and see.

JPtheBeasta
12-19-2017, 10:56 AM
Tillie and JW3 should not need to be benched to convince them to post hard and play hard. Robert Sacre often drew multiple fouls a game just posting up- before even receiving the basketball. Karnowski did this, too. These guys need to make their defender uncomfortable guarding them.

bballbeachbum
12-19-2017, 04:08 PM
IUPUI was 10-30 in the 1st half but that included 4-11 from deep; 2nd half 15-34 but only 1-11 from deep

to MountainCoyote's spot on point, without that inside balance it's more a pick your poison perhaps right now with the Zags D. hard for me to flame the perimeter defenders when it seems they may have been instructed to deny the 3 at all cost, or something like that, and force the bounce with no rim protection. Josh was great at denying the bounce and the 3 last year, like all were for example, and didn't all of the sudden suck at it, at least not from my view. all can always improve too, yes always. But the equation change inside is fundamental.

Anyway, having coached plenty of teams with no true rim protector, I think is fun! And maybe this is part of the reason Larsen is being brought along the way the staff are using him, big guy back from injury. he's needed to be his best and healthy in a couple of months and on, a crescendo to that. he looks the part and hoping he can stay healthy

bballbeachbum
12-19-2017, 04:17 PM
another quick thought on this: opponents who've been thumped inside defensively by the Zags for years will have their coaches in their ears telling that this is their chance to take to the hole on the Zags, so should be lively

Reborn
12-19-2017, 05:04 PM
I rewatched the game today, and as always the game is much better to watch the day after. Offensively Gonzaga looked like they should look. A lot better ball movement and passing, but still 17 turnovers. The turnover problems continue game after game. Few really needs to do something about this problem. IMO, he has tolerated this way too long.

Gonzaga seemed to be getting back to running the offense, less one on one basketball. However, Tillie Played horrible defense. HORRIBLE. I have seen him play much better D. Lack of Consistency has been his biggest problem so far.

GrizZAG
12-19-2017, 06:24 PM
Lost in transition or translation?

Some of these incessant turnovers are maddening. Lazy passes, Perkins overthrowing passes, Rui just not reading what is happening at times. What do you see that is a pattern for this team that is causing our turnovers? It seems in addition to the actual turnovers there are loads of near disaster passing often as well. J3 forcing it at times as well as Perks. What is going on here? I imagine coaches are trying to address.

Hoopaholic
12-19-2017, 06:27 PM
Lost in transition or translation?

Some of these incessant turnovers are maddening. Lazy passes, Perkins overthrowing passes, Rui just not reading what is happening at times. What do you see that is a pattern for this team that is causing our turnovers? It seems in addition to the actual turnovers there are loads of near disaster passing often as well. J3 forcing it at times as well as Perks. What is going on here? I imagine coaches are trying to address.
Part of these continue to be from learning curve knowing where your teammate will move to...sometimes just not on same wave length..you signed I thought you were zagging

GrizZAG
12-19-2017, 06:41 PM
Oh I'm Zagging :) Along with the rest of you!
Go Zags!!

Reborn
12-19-2017, 06:59 PM
I learned as a coach, that only one thing really matters to a player is getting slivers on the bench. I believe that showed last night when Few benched Tillie and Williams. However, imo he needs to do the same thing to Josh. I don't care if Josh is the only point guard, and honestly I doubt if he is. I see that Melson runs this team every bit as well as Josh. Melson rarely turns the ball over. IMO Williams is the next guilty one. These guys NEED to learn to take care of the basketball. 17, 18, 19-22 turn over in games is just rediculous, and imo, Few tolerates this. I love Larsen, and to me, he deserves to play more. He totally represents what Zag basketball is all about. Next is Melson. or Melson is next and then Larsen. Let's get back to playing Gonzaga basketball. IMO Josh's main problem is penetrating too deep into the middle of the key, or really anywhere withing 8 feet of the basket, and then he stops there and is trippled teamed. That's when he turns it over. Oh yes you are right. There are those occasional times when he makes the most obsured passes that even high school players would not attempt to make. Those are the times I'd bench him. If he continues to believe that making those rediculous passes that Few will not take him out, he will never change. Personally, I don't want to have to continue to watch this kind of point guard for two more years. Josh is a great basketball player. He has one major problem and that is his HEAD. He's a head case, and that worries me. I do not see him as a solid point guard at this time, and I don't see him changing.

I don't remember when I was this criticle of a player. Maybe Williams this year. These are two players who should be leaders and so far, imo they are not. Few had to bench Williams for his kind of play. That seems pretty embarrassing to me. And Few needs to continue to do it because we have two fantastic players waiting to play who sits on the bench, larsen and Tillie.

Zags11
12-19-2017, 07:07 PM
Perkins 5.1 assists to 2.8 turnovers.

Silas 2.6 assists to 1.0 turnovers.

They aren't far off from each other.
One is PG and one is SG. When josh fouled out, Silas didn't do that great. Silas is a good backup pg IMO. Solid SG.

Zags11
12-19-2017, 07:08 PM
Is Perkins the new meech to ppl on here?

hooter73
12-19-2017, 07:12 PM
Only to a certain few, the rest of us appreciate him for what he is.

JPtheBeasta
12-20-2017, 06:08 AM
I’m starting to wonder if it’s Perkins’ body language/on-court demeanor that has people questioning is point guardiness. It seems to me that he has acquitted himself nicely with his ball-handling and overall play. I see him playing with his hair and mouth guard quite a bit, and he doesn’t ooze the swagger that other guards have done in the past. Just speculating and thinking out loud...

WallaWallaZag
12-20-2017, 06:52 AM
I don't remember when I was this criticle of a player. Maybe Williams this year. These are two players who should be leaders and so far, imo they are not. Few had to bench Williams for his kind of play. That seems pretty embarrassing to me. And Few needs to continue to do it because we have two fantastic players waiting to play who sits on the bench, larsen and Tillie.

since when has tillie been sitting on the bench waiting to play??? he was benched for the last game for the same reason as williams...
larsen will start to get more and more time, but he needs to get better at scoring in the post...needs to get deeper position like karno used to.

Hoopaholic
12-20-2017, 07:01 AM
I just shake my head as it appears for me many simply ignore facts

TEAM
92 ppg this year 83 ppg last year +9
41 Rpg 41 Rpg push
17 assists 15 apg +2
8 steals pg 7 steals pg +1
3 block pg 5 block pg -2 collins and karno which allowed williams to roam free and thus his block shot average slightly down this year

14 TO pg 11 TO pg -3 Tillie went from12 minutes game to 25 minutes game and his TO has increased from .6 to 1.8 (increase 1.2)
Rui went from 4.6 min a game to 18 min game and his TO has increased from .3 to 1.4 (increase of 1.1)
Norvell is averaging 1.6 TO per game compare that to Mathews (same position) who was at.8 (increase of .8 at this position)
Williams 1.3 last year 24 min game to 3 per game @28 min a game (increase of 1.7)
Perkins is up .8 turnovers this year over last (last year handled PG duties 30-40% of time, this year FULL TIME at 33 min a game

51% floor 50% floor +1
38% from 3 38% from 3 push
74% FT 71% FT +3%

Perkins vs Goss

14.8 ppg vs 16..8 ppg Goss +2 TEAM this year is +9 in scoring
3.6 rpg vs 6 rpg Goss +2.4 TEAM is push
5.1 Apg vs 4.7 Apg Perkins +.4 Team +2 this year
1.7 Spg vs 1.7 Spg Even Team +1 this year
2.8 TO vs 2.2 To Goss +.6 Team is -3 this year (see bigs having issues and Norvell adding to equation with his aggressiveness (which I love)
48% floor vs 48% floor Even Team is +1 this year
50% 3 land vs 36% Perkins +14% Teams are a push

Seems to me Perkins and the TEAM are on par from last year as it pertains to stats (granted we are 1/3 into season comparing stats to last years total games so will see how it pans out as one could argue we have some cupcake games coming up that could enhance personal and team stats)

jazzdelmar
12-20-2017, 07:12 AM
Is Perkins the new meech to ppl on here?

Nooooo way. He's light years better than Meech.....he was a disaster.......JP is a quite respectable generic guard.......just not an elite PG.

raise the zag
12-20-2017, 07:16 AM
I just shake my head as it appears for me many simply ignore facts

TEAM
92 ppg this year 83 ppg last year +9
41 Rpg 41 Rpg push
17 assists 15 apg +2
8 steals pg 7 steals pg +1
3 block pg 5 block pg -2 collins and karno which allowed williams to roam free and thus his block shot average slightly down this year

14 TO pg 11 TO pg -3 Tillie went from12 minutes game to 25 minutes game and his TO has increased from .6 to 1.8 (increase 1.2)
Rui went from 4.6 min a game to 18 min game and his TO has increased from .3 to 1.4 (increase of 1.1)
Norvell is averaging 1.6 TO per game compare that to Mathews (same position) who was at.8 (increase of .8 at this position)
Williams 1.3 last year 24 min game to 3 per game @28 min a game (increase of 1.7)
Perkins is up .8 turnovers this year over last (last year handled PG duties 30-40% of time, this year FULL TIME at 33 min a game

51% floor 50% floor +1
38% from 3 38% from 3 push
74% FT 71% FT +3%

Perkins vs Goss

14.8 ppg vs 16..8 ppg Goss +2 TEAM this year is +9 in scoring
3.6 rpg vs 6 rpg Goss +2.4 TEAM is push
5.1 Apg vs 4.7 Apg Perkins +.4 Team +2 this year
1.7 Spg vs 1.7 Spg Even Team +1 this year
2.8 TO vs 2.2 To Goss +.6 Team is -3 this year (see bigs having issues and Norvell adding to equation with his aggressiveness (which I love)
48% floor vs 48% floor Even Team is +1 this year
50% 3 land vs 36% Perkins +14% Teams are a push

Seems to me Perkins and the TEAM are on par from last year as it pertains to stats (granted we are 1/3 into season comparing stats to last years total games so will see how it pans out as one could argue we have some cupcake games coming up that could enhance personal and team stats)

Terrific post. Objective, rational, and to the point.

However, I'd argue +3 TOPG is significant. That could be +9 pts for us, or for the opponent scoring off those TO's, not to mention loss FG attempts, etc. One can argue 3 more TO's could be a double digit swing of points over 40 mins.

Not to mention the different b/w 11 TO's per game and 14 TO's per game is over 100 spots in NCAA Team rankings.

I like this post, because it is glaring how bad the TO's are compared to previous years, esp last year. Also, shows the potential this team has by matching last yrs' offensive output given way more TO's. Interesting.

Another glaring stat is the difference b/w 2 blocks and 5 blocks per game. That is around 150 spots in team rankings, not to mention 3 less shots attempts for opponents, transition opportunity for us, protecting the rim, intimidation, and giving us 3 more defensive stops is huge. Could be another 9 pt swing potentially.

And you said it, our rim protection last yr allowed J3 to roam free, a huge difference on defense, and TO's. He was a great weakside help defender, plus our guards could extend their 3pt defense, and essentially "funneled" opponents to drive against us as Karno or Collins were waiting to feast. Ripple effect on defense, momentum, easy points, and stops leading to buckets.

This post illuminates our obvious weaknesses perfectly: Turnovers and 3pt defense.

Our shot blockers allowed extended defense and more opportunities to score and stop the oppositions, while 3 TO's a game allow opponents to score/shoot more/easy buckets, and hurt our chances, a large swing in potential points.

jazzdelmar
12-20-2017, 07:16 AM
Perkins 5.1 assists to 2.8 turnovers.

Silas 2.6 assists to 1.0 turnovers.

They aren't far off from each other.
One is PG and one is SG. When josh fouled out, Silas didn't do that great. Silas is a good backup pg IMO. Solid SG.

Huh....how is 5:3 "close" to 3:1????

jazzdelmar
12-20-2017, 07:19 AM
I just shake my head as it appears for me many simply ignore facts

TEAM
92 ppg this year 83 ppg last year +9
41 Rpg 41 Rpg push
17 assists 15 apg +2
8 steals pg 7 steals pg +1
3 block pg 5 block pg -2 collins and karno which allowed williams to roam free and thus his block shot average slightly down this year

14 TO pg 11 TO pg -3 Tillie went from12 minutes game to 25 minutes game and his TO has increased from .6 to 1.8 (increase 1.2)
Rui went from 4.6 min a game to 18 min game and his TO has increased from .3 to 1.4 (increase of 1.1)
Norvell is averaging 1.6 TO per game compare that to Mathews (same position) who was at.8 (increase of .8 at this position)
Williams 1.3 last year 24 min game to 3 per game @28 min a game (increase of 1.7)
Perkins is up .8 turnovers this year over last (last year handled PG duties 30-40% of time, this year FULL TIME at 33 min a game

51% floor 50% floor +1
38% from 3 38% from 3 push
74% FT 71% FT +3%

Perkins vs Goss

14.8 ppg vs 16..8 ppg Goss +2 TEAM this year is +9 in scoring
3.6 rpg vs 6 rpg Goss +2.4 TEAM is push
5.1 Apg vs 4.7 Apg Perkins +.4 Team +2 this year
1.7 Spg vs 1.7 Spg Even Team +1 this year
2.8 TO vs 2.2 To Goss +.6 Team is -3 this year (see bigs having issues and Norvell adding to equation with his aggressiveness (which I love)
48% floor vs 48% floor Even Team is +1 this year
50% 3 land vs 36% Perkins +14% Teams are a push

Seems to me Perkins and the TEAM are on par from last year as it pertains to stats (granted we are 1/3 into season comparing stats to last years total games so will see how it pans out as one could argue we have some cupcake games coming up that could enhance personal and team stats)

You lose all credibility typing JP and Goss in the same comparison table. Seriously?

GoZags
12-20-2017, 07:22 AM
Huh....how is 5:3 "close" to 3:1????

Shouldn't you be asking if 1.82/1 is not "far off" from 2.6/1 ???

In my opinion, both are good numbers and not that "far off" from each other .... and certainly closer than your "rounding" of the actual numbers.

jazzdelmar
12-20-2017, 07:27 AM
Shouldn't you be asking if 1.82/1 is not "far off" from 2.6/1 ???

In my opinion, both are good numbers and not that "far off" from each other .... and certainly closer than your "rounding" of the actual numbers.

Put away the slide rule, GZ, i was exaggerating for effect.....But totally agree w your "finding" as well.....Happy holidays, too.

GoZags
12-20-2017, 08:41 AM
Put away the slide rule, GZ, i was exaggerating for effect.....But totally agree w your "finding" as well.....Happy holidays, too.

Wondering what the percentage is of guboard members who've never used a "slide rule" .... hope you witness a great game tomorrow night.

jazzdelmar
12-20-2017, 08:46 AM
Wondering what the percentage is of guboard members who've never used a "slide rule" .... hope you witness a great game tomorrow night.

1:100,000, ya think?

GoZags
12-20-2017, 08:50 AM
1:100,000, ya think?

Naah .... those'd be the numbers for actually using an abacus (and I'd be the "1"). The slide rule was rendered obsolete in '74 .... and there are a "few" boardmembers who were around waaaay back then.

gon2mt
12-20-2017, 09:16 AM
I agree completely with almost all the posts. But just to focus on one issue I thought the second half defense was not good at all. There were multiple times when they would get easy layups. Zags were scoring at will and it just become a back and forth scoring fest. The poor defense allowed them to cut it to 11 despite shooting like 60%. Last year's team was excellent on defense consistently throughout games which resulted in their KenPom ranking. There will be times when the offense will not score like that and the defense has to carry them. I see that as a big problem.

Zags11
12-20-2017, 10:41 AM
Huh....how is 5:3 "close" to 3:1????

If you doubled it...

Silas would be 5.2 to 2.0. And if you don't think Silas would get 0.8 more turnovers a game with ball constantly in his hands....


Josh is 41% from 3 as well. 14.8ppg.

Silas is 33% from 3 and 10.7ppg.

Hoopaholic
12-20-2017, 11:01 AM
You lose all credibility typing JP and Goss in the same comparison table. Seriously?

please explain why the statistical facts should not be looked at side by side

other than particular lense coloring the above facts are stable comparisons.......after that one could start to get into perspective, desire, wishes and other team members impact on the point guard role and function

Hoopaholic
12-20-2017, 11:04 AM
Terrific post. Objective, rational, and to the point.

However, I'd argue +3 TOPG is significant. That could be +9 pts for us, or for the opponent scoring off those TO's, not to mention loss FG attempts, etc. One can argue 3 more TO's could be a double digit swing of points over 40 mins.

Not to mention the different b/w 11 TO's per game and 14 TO's per game is over 100 spots in NCAA Team rankings.

I like this post, because it is glaring how bad the TO's are compared to previous years, esp last year. Also, shows the potential this team has by matching last yrs' offensive output given way more TO's. Interesting.

Another glaring stat is the difference b/w 2 blocks and 5 blocks per game. That is around 150 spots in team rankings, not to mention 3 less shots attempts for opponents, transition opportunity for us, protecting the rim, intimidation, and giving us 3 more defensive stops is huge. Could be another 9 pt swing potentially.

And you said it, our rim protection last yr allowed J3 to roam free, a huge difference on defense, and TO's. He was a great weakside help defender, plus our guards could extend their 3pt defense, and essentially "funneled" opponents to drive against us as Karno or Collins were waiting to feast. Ripple effect on defense, momentum, easy points, and stops leading to buckets.

This post illuminates our obvious weaknesses perfectly: Turnovers and 3pt defense.

Our shot blockers allowed extended defense and more opportunities to score and stop the oppositions, while 3 TO's a game allow opponents to score/shoot more/easy buckets, and hurt our chances, a large swing in potential points.

absolutely agree

Turnovers however are coming from two inexperienced players who have more than doubled their time on the court thsu doubling their turnovers. norvell is new so his turnover compared to Mathews last year also accounts for the additional turnovers, but the biggest one is Williams and I cant explain why he has butter fingers this year....but it needs cleaning up for deep run...will go on record and say we will continue to improve and we will be close to 11 by year end

as to blocks YEP clearly missing the big boy and his backup, but also we see diminshed return in J3 shot blocking as he is no longer free to roam and cover weakside to strong side where alot of blocks occur......not sure we will approach this statistical category this year compared to last

Reborn
12-20-2017, 03:53 PM
In this case I am not interested in the stats over the whole year. I'm talking about the turnovers against a lot of teams. Turnovers have been up in the 20's and high teens. If you thing those are good numbers that that tells me what you know about basketball. The new comers have NOT been the problem. It's Williams, Tillie and Perkins. Our leaders. Of course when they play sloppy it will spread. J3 can not pass out of a double team, and if they tripple him it's almost an automatic turnover. He needs to stop playing one on one bb every time he touches the ball. I thought he played very good on Monday. He's moving the ball before he makes his great one on one move into the middle of the key which opposing players are ready to double him. Perkins has thrown some of the stupidest passes that I've seen at the D-1 level. As I've said, he penetrates too far into the key and than picks up his dribble. His turnovers are 80% in the key. The other 20% just come from stupid passes in which he never has to even attempt. I think he tires too hard to show others how great he is.

I am one who believes that turnovers KILL a team. I can cope with ten. Anything above 10 is just giving the other team points. 19 turn overs again North Dakota. That 9 more times that we could have tried to score. Let's say we make 4 or 5 of those baskets. Then the game's not so scary. 22 to's against Villanova. Ridiculous. How can you beat a team like 'Nova with that many TO's.

The best news to me it's that it's still early in the year. There's a lot of time. Few and assistants need to do something about the TO's, because if they don't, imo they will not make it to the 2nd game in the NCAA tournament.

I think the best way to analyze a team is the good old EYE TEST. I can tell the difference between sloppy passes and good passes. I bet you can too. Why defend the team for something that they need to correct. Some times criticism is good.

WallaWallaZag
12-20-2017, 09:13 PM
I am one who believes that turnovers KILL a team. I can cope with ten. Anything above 10 is just giving the other team points. 19 turn overs again North Dakota. That 9 more times that we could have tried to score. Let's say we make 4 or 5 of those baskets. Then the game's not so scary. 22 to's against Villanova. Ridiculous. How can you beat a team like 'Nova with that many TO's.

hey reborn, just so you know, last year's team averaged 11.5 per game so your 10 number is not very realistic...

TexasZagFan
12-20-2017, 09:29 PM
hey reborn, just so you know, last year's team averaged 11.5 per game so your 10 number is not very realistic...

Wofford had 10 turnovers to UNC's 14, and won by four. Coincidence? I think not.

Limiting our turnovers to ten a game is a very good goal, considering the pace we play at.

WallaWallaZag
12-21-2017, 12:12 AM
Wofford had 10 turnovers to UNC's 14, and won by four. Coincidence? I think not.

Limiting our turnovers to ten a game is a very good goal, considering the pace we play at.

didn't say it was a bad goal, just seems unrealistic for this current team...only 2 games this year with under 10 turnovers...utah state and huskies...i would be happy with 12-13 at this point.

TexasZagFan
12-21-2017, 12:28 AM
didn't say it was a bad goal, just seems unrealistic for this current team...only 2 games this year with under 10 turnovers...utah state and huskies...i would be happy with 12-13 at this point.

Can't disagree with you there, 12-13 beats the hell out of 20+.