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Zags11
12-16-2017, 06:11 PM
Breathe.... All of us....breathe. Zags win in OT 89-83.

Wow.

Ugly game for 35 minutes. Crowd was horrible for most the game as was the zags until the score was 45-33 ND.

The full court press saved the zags. Kudos to few and the coaches and players. It was horrible to allow the three for the tie. Come on few! Perkins stepped up HUGE late in the game. Huge leadership there. Norvell was big late too as well. Melson with huge block! Tillie was a no show. So was rui as well. The team was flat and it showed.

This game was horrible but we won. And all that matters is a W. Burn the tape, burn your eyes. We can all just watch OT over and over as it was great. Lol

Breathe. We won.





My grades would be crowd to coaches to players was D-. Ot? A.

SWZag
12-16-2017, 06:14 PM
I loved the press. That was a game changer.

GonzaGAW
12-16-2017, 06:26 PM
- worst game I have seen in years, boo.

- do not blame the crowd, the team did not come ready to play.

- and yes but for the press that was a loss.

whatazag
12-16-2017, 06:29 PM
I've complained about Norvell's shot selection in many threads. But we've never had a player like him. Ever. So nice to have a guy who can finish at the hoop under any circumstances.

TexasZagFan
12-16-2017, 06:31 PM
I've complained about Norvell's shot selection in many threads. But we've never had a player like him. Ever. So nice to have a guy who can finish at the hoop under any circumstances.

We were loving Zach's play here, one of Big D's favorite players.

gonzagafan62
12-16-2017, 06:37 PM
I don't blame the crowd for the situation the players put themselves in but I do blame them for not giving us energy till 10 to go in the second half. I was please with JPs and ZN aggressiveness in the second half.

Press seemed to work well late in regualtion. Completely finished off ND. Very pleased. Hope we can get our stuff back together and play well Monday. Season flashed before my eyes tonight and we finished it off somehow. Glad we pulled it off. Give ND all the credit for this game. We looked disinterested

GonzaGAW
12-16-2017, 06:38 PM
- liking norvell more and more, but how is it such a good shooter is so far off on his misses? his misses are off by a foot! you can tell just by watching the t.v. from 10 feet away that the shot has no chance.


- fun fact.......what do North Dakota and Villanova have in common? the last two teams to shoot 50% or better from the field against gonzaga.

TexasZagFan
12-16-2017, 06:42 PM
JW3 is starting to look like a liability in the last two minutes of a game...poor ball handler, poor FT shooter. He could've ended the game in regulation. 5 TOs for the game...he's a senior dammit. I'll forgive Zach for his youth, Josh also had 4 TOs, he was too careless with the ball tonight, despite righting his ship in the second half.

TexasZagFan
12-16-2017, 06:42 PM
- fun fact.......what do North Dakota and Villanova have in common? the last two teams to shoot 50% or better from the field against gonzaga.

If that's "fun", then you're a freaking masochist! :lmao:

GrizZAG
12-16-2017, 07:07 PM
Clutch 3's pulled this out. What concerned me was when the inside game was not working why we weren't kicking out to our open shooters. This team win's beyond the arc so why keep beating our head against the wall by doing the same forcing that is not working? Yes the 3 wasn't dropping in the first half but as we have seen especially with Norvell and Perkins it can change in a heartbeat and they start falling. Thoughts on that anyone?

amaronizag
12-16-2017, 07:20 PM
I have been a huge Norvell fan from day one and continue to sing his praises. I agree with many who post here that he's a loose pup in some ways, but who cares when your positives so far out weigh your negatives. When Few got in his face and benched him for a long stretch tonight, our offensive production faltered significantly. I think we're far better when he's on the floor. I like his aggressiveness, penetration, finishing at the rim, running the floor, and willingness to put up shots when the rest of the team is content to play hot potato and pass around the perimeter. Keep the petal to the metal Zach!!! I don't think he's getting enough recognition around here yet. The Slipper Still Fits had high praise for Josh and some other players but only had one sentence about Zach in tonights post game write up. "Zach Norvell Jr.came up big over the last 4 minutes of regulation and throughout overtime to finish with 19 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, and 5 steals." I agree that Josh had a great game, but so did Zach. His shot has been off, but when it comes around, look out. He's the real deal. I'm going to really enjoy watching him for as long as we have him.

GrizZAG
12-16-2017, 07:25 PM
+1

gueastcoast
12-16-2017, 07:29 PM
I hate games like this - heck, I hate any game in which we don't sprint out to a double-digit lead and hold it throughout - but a small part of me wonders if we'll not benefit later in the season from having played a game where we came from behind, had to press/adjust, etc.

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billyberu
12-16-2017, 07:31 PM
I have been a huge Norvell fan from day one and continue to sing his praises. I agree with many who post here that he's a loose pup in some ways, but who cares when your positives so far out weigh your negatives. When Few got in his face and benched him for a long stretch tonight, our offensive production faltered significantly. I think we're far better when he's on the floor. I like his aggressiveness, penetration, finishing at the rim, running the floor, and willingness to put up shots when the rest of the team is content to play hot potato and pass around the perimeter. Keep the petal to the metal Zach!!! I don't think he's getting enough recognition around here yet. The Slipper Still Fits had high praise for Josh and some other players but only had one sentence about Zach in tonights post game write up. "Zach Norvell Jr.came up big over the last 4 minutes of regulation and throughout overtime to finish with 19 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, and 5 steals." I agree that Josh had a great game, but so did Zach. His shot has been off, but when it comes around, look out. He's the real deal. I'm going to really enjoy watching him for as long as we have him.Well said.

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Zag365
12-16-2017, 07:46 PM
Ugh. Thank goodness we rallied with full-court press, help from the crowd, and (finally) some clutch shots that went down. When we were -9 with less than 5 minutes to go and chucking up missed threes, I thought we were toast. Can't understand why we couldn't get more inside from Tillie and JW3. Our 6 pt. margin turned out to be FTs and volume shooting that got us two more baskets despite a low percentage.

amaronizag
12-16-2017, 07:47 PM
My other post game thoughts are about how crappy I am at predicting outcomes for this years team. I thought we would beat NOVA by 8 and we lost by 8. I thought we would beat UW by 8 and we won by 27. I thought we would beat ND by 40 tonight and we squeaked out a 6 point overtime win. Last year I felt like every game plan was spot on and executed well. This year is very different with respect to execution and adjustments. I have no idea who this team is about half of the time. But I still have great expectations. I've been hoping it's just my admittedly weak analysis that's off, but my gut tells me it's more than just that. I'm feeling ecstatic one game and the next I'm stunned and have no words for what just happened.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-16-2017, 08:51 PM
- I don’t know what to make of Kispert’s limited playing time. If it’s because his ankle isn’t stable, why play him at all until it is?
- I don’t know what to make of Tillie either. I’ve seen him dominate games but not as often as I’ve seen him disappear. What’s that about?
- Coaches roll w Jones for the critical late game stretch when the press got Zags back into the game. That was very surprising to me; it was clearly the right move. Will we be seeing more of Jeremy Jones moving forward?
- I want confident shooting Silas back!
- I love Josh Perkins; he is this team’s best player and consistently shows up.

Zagceo
12-16-2017, 09:30 PM
Rui 16 min 9 points 5 REB 1 STL 1 TO ....why not give him more minutes?

Williams 37 min 14 points 6 REB 2 STL 5 TO

Skimhvn
12-16-2017, 10:44 PM
Can I somehow download the WCCsports streaming? I know it's difficult...

jazzdelmar
12-17-2017, 12:09 AM
Ugh. Thank goodness we rallied with full-court press, help from the crowd, and (finally) some clutch shots that went down. When we were -9 with less than 5 minutes to go and chucking up missed threes, I thought we were toast. Can't understand why we couldn't get more inside from Tillie and JW3. Our 6 pt. margin turned out to be FTs and volume shooting that got us two more baskets despite a low percentage.

Williams is having a generally poor season and Tillie is awol a lot of the time.

Murphy outgo lifer
12-17-2017, 02:05 AM
Williams is having a generally poor season and Tillie is awol a lot of the time.

JW3's career at Gonzaga has been very interesting to this point as the guy has all the talent in the world but seems to struggle for stretches but also generally shows up in the biggest of moments in the biggest of games. Same thing happened last year as he tried to figure out his role in the beginning and would disappear for periods of time, including during conference but during the tourney he was amazingly clutch. Only time will tell if he will be able to be the consistent go-to-guy for this team and to be honest I could see it going either way. The one thing that is for sure is that at the present he has become extremely one-dimensional. He has stopped shooting 3's altogether and he does not drive his man from the top of the key anymore- something that he was extremely effective with at the beginning of the year. He also does not face-up his opponent from the elbow or slash to hoop very often anymore. He is trying to bang and beat double teams in the post far too often which is contributing to turnovers and poor FG percentages. He is also only averaging 6 boards a game which is really low for someone with his strength, athleticism, and quick vertical. Last year he was able to adapt and I am hoping he will be able to grow this year as well and be the player he was for us during the tournament last year, he definitely has the ability.

As far as Tillie goes, I remember at the start of the year when Few said Tillie had a bad game against Texas A&M and so he took away his starting role the following game. Tillie came out with fire and passion and he responded with his greatest performance. Maybe Few needs to start Larsen until Tillie is willing to play a full 40. I really wish Tillie would go all-out for the entire game because when he does he is the most talented person on the floor, on both offense and defense.

jazzdelmar
12-17-2017, 04:03 AM
Agree on the press, it was stifling. So, why was it abandoned after GU first drew even and went ahead? It had the effect of chaining Kispert to the bench as well.

Zagger
12-17-2017, 04:07 AM
Well, Nail Biter! I was at the game and yes, we as a crowd we're sorta dumbfounded with how the game was 'progressing'. Being that a slew of new folks were at the game with the students gone it took us awhile to get into it and make some serious noise. You could tell the team appreciated that and that it began to rattle ND - especially combined with the full court press. However, ND put up a pretty darn good game on O and weren't so shabby on D either.

I feel the Zags had an off night and everyone under-estimated ND. ND came around to thinking they could beat GU and played like it. Their coach was really active on the sidelines directing his team. Once the Kennel got noisy that part became much harder for ND to pull off. Some may want to diss the crowd but .... once they got on board the tide changed. Being there during that was ... fun :) ... excepting I now can't pick up a dime.

Reborn
12-17-2017, 05:55 AM
First, I'd like to congratulate North Dakota for giving us a really tough game. Their guards played outstanding. I'd say right up there with Florida's and Creighton's guards. They came to beat us last night and almost did. It was a great victory for the Zags, and it was good to see them finally wake up and start fighting. I give them a lot of credit for pulling out a victory on a night that they could have easily been beaten. They were down by 8 with four minutes to go. They really dug in on defense and began to fight. In the end I really like this game. The press was great. A number of fans who post here thought that the Zags could have a pretty good press this year, and it showed up last night didn't it.

Josh was just great last night, especially in the 2nd half. He was one player who really wanted the victory and played like it in the 2nd half. I enjoyed his fight and determination. He scored 20 and could have had 26 if he had made his lay ups. I feel kind of the same for Norvell, although he still doesn't play well in the first half. But he has a lot of fight in him and he showed up when the team needed him. I don't believe that Rui is getting many cudos from anyone. He is the one who ignited the press and got Gonzaga the lead before Jones came in. Jones did play the head of the press great, but imo so did Rui. I loved his hustle and determination, and I give his play a lot of credit for this victory. He scored 9 points and i THINK he had 7 boards in only 16 minutes.

I have to believe Few now when he said his team was tired. They looked like it last night. Hopefully, they can get back on track by Thursday when the visit San Diego St.

This is the worst passing team that Mark Few has ever had. The carelessness of his players must really be driving him nuts. To me the chemistry looks really bad. It looks to me like no one knows what the others are doing. I can't say too much about the defense either. Right now it's the worst defensive team I've seen for some time.

amaronizag
12-17-2017, 07:39 AM
I agree Reborn, the team looked tired last night. Unfocused and unmotivated. The thing I was happiest about last night was that press. WOW!! Last night showed me we have be practicing the press and that makes me very happy. For as long as I can remember, Few doesn't press unless we're behind. Then it is used only until we catch up. GU has always been crippled by full court pressure, gets frantic, and coughed the ball up as soon the pressure is applied. Glad to see we have been working hard on that aspect of our game. I would like to see it used in spurts during every game just to take teams out of rhythm.

I also agree that J3 has been spotty. I think part of the reason he disappears is match-ups, part is that others are feeling it and step up to score, part has to do with opponents defense, and part is just J3's mental attitude. I watched the BYU game on TV last night. I came away not being overly impressed in general. However, I can see that J3 may not be a factor when we play them. When the ball fed into a big in the paint, things do not go well. BYU collapses on the ball from all directions and a turnover is imminent. If J3 doesn't immediately shoot or pass out to the open man, he'll be stripped before he knows what hit him.

I also agree that our passing gets sloppy. Part of that comes from players passing up open shots. Every time a player makes an extra pass instead of taking an open shoot, he risks making a turnover. I hate all of that dangerous perimeter passing as much as I hate too much dribbling. Kispert, Melson, and Tillie aren't slashing to the basket so it's pretty obvious that a pass is coming when a player doesn't shoot. Easy for the defense to anticipate the pass. I worry that we're approaching the change of game pace I dread every year. Early in the season Few lets them run like the wind and run up big scores. That makes our ppg total high and puts us high in the rankings. But once we get through the cupcakes, Few slows down the pace. Last year I was really happy because he never slowed it down. I hope he doesn't slow it down this year either. A fast pace is the key to putting up lots of shots and the only way to win when your shooting percentage is low in a given game. That's why I like Norvell so much. He shoots when he's open, but doesn't rely solely on the perimeter shot. He can take it to the hoop for high percentage layups and fouls. He is a scoring and match-up nightmare and is going to get points on the board every night if given the playing time. I much preferred him getting 30+ minutes to less than 20 minutes per game.

LongIslandZagFan
12-17-2017, 09:22 AM
Put this bad boy up there with many other finals week clunkers... Portland State comes to mind. Shake it off move forward.

Fonebone
12-17-2017, 09:40 AM
I was at the game and although it was certainly hard to watch at times I actually found it hugely entertaining in terms of the come back some of the effort at the end of the game, some of the individual effort etc. At the end of the game I was remarking how fun the last 15 minutes were considering how badly we played in many ways


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JPtheBeasta
12-17-2017, 01:13 PM
The good news is that a less talented team wouldn’t have been able to pull by together and win this game. JW3 and Tillie cannot continue to disappear in the same game or it will spell a 2nd game exit from the tournament in March. On the defensive end, they are basically the same type of player and need to figure out what they are doing out there together. One of them also needs to figure out if they want to be a leader on the defensive end; Karnowski was kind of the free safety who erased mistakes and also the middle linebacker who anchored the defense. I would have liked to see more Larsen his game because he gives that presence in the middle that these guards are used to playing with.

stretch
12-17-2017, 02:03 PM
I love the drama of a game like this. I enjoy Gonzaga blowouts, too. I would not read too much into this subpar performance. It's a long season with ups and downs along the way.

raise the zag
12-17-2017, 02:13 PM
The good news is that a less talented team wouldn’t have been able to pull by together and win this game. JW3 and Tillie cannot continue to disappear in the same game or it will spell a 2nd game exit from the tournament in March. On the defensive end, they are basically the same type of player and need to figure out what they are doing out there together. One of them also needs to figure out if they want to be a leader on the defensive end; Karnowski was kind of the free safety who erased mistakes and also the middle linebacker who anchored the defense. I would have liked to see more Larsen his game because he gives that presence in the middle that these guards are used to playing with.

Terrific point and observation.

No one is calling for Larsen to play more mins than either Tillie or J3, nor is he more talented/versatile than them right now, yet we are a better team, balanced offense, and tougher to defend when Larsen is paired with one or the other.

Could Tillie log 5 or 6 mins at the 3 per game? Combined with 18-20 mins at PF? His inconsistent motor is perfectly suited for an 'off the bench' role, and energy bringer, change of pace, floor spacer, etc.

Also, I thought Rui was going to get time at the (3), at least according to Lloyd. He spent some time at beginning of season yet only at PF lately.

I think it be worth experimenting with as the season progresses. When those guys play alongside Larsen, its just more efficient as a TEAM, no necessarily individual talent. I don't believe Larsen is gonna put up 20, but our team operated better in his 10 mpg.

When Tillie or Rui play the (3), let Norvell sub for Silas or give Perks a breather.

Tillie can play perimeter and crash for boards, and guard 6'7" SF's, while spending time at 3, when he plays the (4), he can play inside out again.

Again, not about finding more mins for Larsen because I/we think he's better, rather the team excels overall as a result of him playing more, whether he's scoring or not.

Even defensively.

Could be the difference b/w 2nd Rd exit, and a chance at Elite 8 imho.

U Zig, I Zag
12-17-2017, 03:06 PM
I think the biggest issue is that neither Tillie nor Williams are traditional back to the basket 5’ s GU is used to. Williams has shown some mojo in the right matchups but clearly the tape says if you double him, he’ll give you the ball somehow. Both play better as off ball, cleanup, slashing types. Tillie especially. His best games are when things are up and down quick.

Zags best success has come with a big guy anchoring. Larsen is advanced. The high-lo, he plays catch and can be used as a pivot in the middle (Williams is a blackhole).

Our defense is what it is, but guys rolling on O will double down on D. I think you play more Larsen and let Williams and Tillie work with him.

GrizZAG
12-17-2017, 06:01 PM
Tillie made some key swats last night. ++ I also notice that there is chemistry between Tillie and Larsen. Larson is hunting for Tillie and visa versa when they are on the floor together. J3 forces things inside when he is doubled and creates turnovers often a a result instead of using better judgement and kicking out. He can amaze and disappoint at the same time. Larson seems quick on decision making and also making good decisions with sure hands plus elite passes although not a showy scorer like J3 when it is going for him. Larson to me has more potential than Karno going forward in some ways, but of course K had great court awareness and a leadership quality. Larson is learning quickly with run time.

Zagceo
12-18-2017, 09:07 AM
The first overtime basketball game in McCarthey Athletic Center for Gonzaga Mens basketball


University of North Dakota fighting Sioux....gonna be a tough Jeopardy answer in 5 years

SWZag
12-18-2017, 09:39 AM
The first overtime basketball game in McCarthey Athletic Center for Gonzaga Mens basketball


University of North Dakota fighting Sioux....gonna be a tough Jeopardy answer in 5 years

Very interesting Stat!! Thanks for sharing!

Zagricultural
12-18-2017, 09:52 AM
I think the biggest issue is that neither Tillie nor Williams are traditional back to the basket 5’ s GU is used to. Williams has shown some mojo in the right matchups but clearly the tape says if you double him, he’ll give you the ball somehow. Both play better as off ball, cleanup, slashing types. Tillie especially. His best games are when things are up and down quick.

Zags best success has come with a big guy anchoring. Larsen is advanced. The high-lo, he plays catch and can be used as a pivot in the middle (Williams is a blackhole).

Our defense is what it is, but guys rolling on O will double down on D. I think you play more Larsen and let Williams and Tillie work with him.

Agreed.

bballbeachbum
12-18-2017, 10:44 AM
Congrats to Jones at North Dakota, great game plan and his guys were game and came ready to rock. the defensive adjustments by Few and co. seemed to changed the game in the Zags favor, and while the Zags were under duress we got to see leaders emerge, which was awesome

sittingon50
12-18-2017, 01:03 PM
The first overtime basketball game in McCarthey Athletic Center for Gonzaga Mens basketball


University of North Dakota fighting Sioux....gonna be a tough Jeopardy answer in 5 years

And if you gave that answer, you would be wrong.

FlyZag
12-18-2017, 01:42 PM
The first overtime basketball game in McCarthey Athletic Center for Gonzaga Mens basketball


University of North Dakota fighting Sioux....gonna be a tough Jeopardy answer in 5 years

I remember in '06 San Diego took us to overtime when we hosted the conference tournament @ McCarthy. We also went to OT with Georgia in 2004, but I can't remember if that was at the Arena.

tinfoilzag
12-18-2017, 01:52 PM
I remember in '06 San Diego took us to overtime when we hosted the conference tournament @ McCarthy. We also went to OT with Georgia in 2004, but I can't remember if that was at the Arena.

Looks like the Georgia game was 11-29-2003; pre-Mac.

To make the jepordy answer correct, the question would have to be "Who is the only team to take Gonzaga to OT at the Mac in a regular season game?"

Zagceo
12-18-2017, 07:18 PM
I remember in '06 San Diego took us to overtime when we hosted the conference tournament @ McCarthy. We also went to OT with Georgia in 2004, but I can't remember if that was at the Arena.

looks like you are correct and Gonzaga media got it wrong....http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2005-2006/wccmb05.html#GAME.BOX


It was the first overtime game in the McCarthey Athletic Center for the Zag men, and the first at home since a 79-78 loss to Saint Joseph’s on Dec. 31, 2002.

under free basketball

http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121717aaa.html

tinfoilzag
12-18-2017, 09:50 PM
looks like you are correct and Gonzaga media got it wrong....http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2005-2006/wccmb05.html#GAME.BOX

It was the first overtime game in the McCarthey Athletic Center for the Zag men, and the first at home since a 79-78 loss to Saint Joseph’s on Dec. 31, 2002.

under free basketball

http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/121717aaa.html

To the best of my knowledge, the Zags didn't play in the Mac until Nov. 2014. We played Georgia (2003) and Saint Joseph’s (2002) in the Martin Centre.

http://www.gozags.com/facilities/gonz-mccarthey.html

and this taken from Wikipedia

McCarthey Athletic Center was opened on November 19, 2004. Often called "The New Kennel," its nickname was inherited from the school's former basketball arena, Charlotte Y. Martin Centre, popularly known as "The Kennel," which had been home to the Bulldogs for 39 years.

I got my information from the internet so I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

sittingon50
12-18-2017, 10:10 PM
My reference was to the name of the team.

Zagceo
12-18-2017, 10:31 PM
My reference was to the name of the team.

totally missed that....I was born in North Dakota ...hard habit to break

sittingon50
12-18-2017, 10:47 PM
totally missed that....I was born in North Dakota ...hard habit to break

Very understandable CEO. A storied tradition. They play a little hockey there in Grand Forks, eh?