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View Full Version : S-R Pac 12 TV Take: While Washington dominated the broadcast, Gonzaga the game



CDC84
12-11-2017, 12:12 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/10/tv-take-while-washington-dominated-the-broadcast-g/



MacLean admitted a couple times he had never seen Gonzaga play live, but other than an early “Gonzawga,” it really didn’t show. Though calling them a mid-major early won’t endear him with Few.

But he made up for that faux pas by explaining himself in the second half. He wasn’t downgrading Gonzaga. He was actually dissing the West Coast Conference.

“The WCC is going to be mad at me after this,” he said late in the game, after basically saying the Zags don’t get tested as well in conference play as they would be tested in the Pac-12.

As if anyone in the WCC wouldn't agree with the idea that the Pac 12 offers better competition, even though the Pac 12 has hardly been great so far this season. The larger point: the Zags proved last season that you don't need to be "tested" night after night during league play to play for the national title (especially when you get to fly charter, unlike Pac 12 teams :)). And Butler proved it 2 times by playing in a league (the Horizon) that was worse than the WCC. The same with Memphis around 2006, Cincinnati in the 90's, UNLV from 1975-1990, etc. Can we just get past that? If you really, really invest in basketball you can challenge for titles without needing major conference credentials. The only separation is with the blue blood teams.

GrizZAG
12-11-2017, 01:05 AM
Nicely stated CDC...

Bogozags
12-11-2017, 03:19 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/10/tv-take-while-washington-dominated-the-broadcast-g/


As if anyone in the WCC wouldn't agree with the idea that the Pac 12 offers better competition, even though the Pac 12 has hardly been great so far this season. The larger point: the Zags proved last season that you don't need to be "tested" night after night during league play to play for the national title (especially when you get to fly charter, unlike Pac 12 teams :)). And Butler proved it 2 times by playing in a league (the Horizon) that was worse than the WCC. The same with Memphis around 2006, Cincinnati in the 90's, UNLV from 1975-1990, etc. Can we just get past that? If you really, really invest in basketball you can challenge for titles without needing major conference credentials. The only separation is with the blue blood teams.


Yes, I can go along with that...:D

Also just a tidbit...I believe MacLean was on the last Wooden team to win a NC in 1975...

thebigsmoove
12-11-2017, 04:55 AM
The announcers for this game were absolutely awful. Maclean sounded drunk half the broadcast carrying on about corner threes. As if Corner threes somehow would determine the results of the game. Worst announced game of the year, and really, i have a new found appreciation for Heister, Fox and Dickau.

FuManShoes
12-11-2017, 05:05 AM
The announcers for this game were absolutely awful. Maclean sounded drunk half the broadcast carrying on about corner threes. As if Corner threes somehow would determine the results of the game. Worst announced game of the year, and really, i have a new found appreciation for Heister, Fox and Dickau.

You apparently forgot - or missed - the Dakich PK80 games, where he went on and on about how Perkins was a chucker and would revert to the mean and shoot the Zags out of it. I was OK with last night's corner three talk. The Dawgs blocked and hurried several threes, and it was about all they did on defense. When the Zags instead worked it into he middle of the zone or attacked, it was all she wrote, opening up the threes later.

Bogozags
12-11-2017, 05:45 AM
You apparently forgot - or missed - the Dakich PK80 games, where he went on and on about how Perkins was a chucker and would revert to the mean and shoot the Zags out of it. I was OK with last night's corner three talk. The Dawgs blocked and hurried several threes, and it was about all they did on defense. When the Zags instead worked it into he middle of the zone or attacked, it was all she wrote, opening up the threes later.

They are both horrible announcers and evidently, there are so many college games being broadcast that the bottom of the barrel has been reached!

A to Zags
12-11-2017, 05:56 AM
The announcers for this game were absolutely awful. Maclean sounded drunk half the broadcast carrying on about corner threes. As if Corner threes somehow would determine the results of the game. Worst announced game of the year, and really, i have a new found appreciation for Heister, Fox and Dickau.

I have a very different opinion about the announcers. They represent the PAC 12 Network and I expected them to promote their brand with a little love. They were very complimentary about the Zags also for the great part except their remarks down playing our win percentage on the road. Forum members here have dissed the WCC much worse than they did and Don went over and above to apologize for his negative remarks. His love for Adam was quite sincere and his respect for our program otherwise was better than I had possibly anticipated. He was also very honest about his lack of exposure to Gonzaga. I have witnessed better X and O color guys but otherwise thought this to be a very enjoyable experience...the score was helpful.

ZagsGoZags
12-11-2017, 05:58 AM
The announcers for this game were absolutely awful. Maclean sounded drunk half the broadcast carrying on about corner threes. As if Corner threes somehow would determine the results of the game. Worst announced game of the year, and really, i have a new found appreciation for Heister, Fox and Dickau.

Heister was the play by play TV Announcer for a recent UW Huskies game, either Kennesaw St. or Omaha. He lacked the unbridled energy he has for the zags, but also did not critique the personality of his fellow broadcaster, or try to force humor by criticizing the other broadcaster. Put the good parts together, and get rid of the bad parts of each broadcasting style, and I would like him as a broadcaster. He also is better than most broadcasters at telling the audience who committed fouls and what the fouls were.

With Romar gone, I have become a Husky BB fan also because I live in Seattle. My objection always was Lorenzo, not the players, the college or fans. I forgive the Seattle sports media for backing Romar, like the Spokane media supported Few. The rivalry is a good one, and is not one sided. This may be the first Husky men's BB sell-out of Hec-Ed Pavilion also called Alaska Airlines Arena, in many years.
9749 GU official sell-out.
4900 Omaha
4900 Kennesaw St.
5300 UC Davis
6400 Seattle U, cross town opponent, understandably high attendance
6100 Providence
5600 EWU
5900 Belmont
so far this season

GU is having the same effect it has on WCC attendance, selling out the gym for that team, the only sellout game in their whole season.

gueastcoast
12-11-2017, 06:07 AM
I had no issue with Maclean, I thought for someone whose job is to know/celebrate the PAC first and foremost he was highly complimentary of (if not always terribly knowledgeable about) the Zags. I was saying to my daughter during the game that I'd take the two announcers last night over most of the garden-variety ESPN crews we are saddled with.

willandi
12-11-2017, 06:13 AM
. Forum members here have dissed the WCC much worse than they did

A person can talk about how homely their spouse is, that's between them, but another person should not do so, them's fightin' words.

A to Zags
12-11-2017, 07:45 AM
A person can talk about how homely their spouse is, that's between them, but another person should not do so, them's fightin' words.

True, and to your point Maclean prefaced his remark that the WCC would not like his comment, then preceded to make his point. He spent the rest of the broadcast backtracking and saying how much he liked the WCC.

CDC84
12-11-2017, 08:24 AM
This is your basic rundown of MacLean's goof up's last night (that came from other people as I didn't get to watch the game.) Direct TV Viewer:

1) He admitted near the start of the game that he had not really seen a full Zag game all season. (great preparation buddy)

2) He mispronounced the school's name (when is it going to end?)

3) He called them a mid major. (despite the fact that Gonzaga's spends more on it's basketball program than Washington, generates more revenue than Washington's program, and produces more profit than UW's program).

4) When Perkins nailed his first three pointer, Don said with wisdom, "You let him take that shot because it won't go in later." Perkins is shooting 52% from three for the season and shoots at a high volume. There aren't many better in the nation.

5) MacLean's great insight of the evening, "The WCC fans are not going to like me for saying this, but the Zags are not going to get challenged in the WCC every night like they would in the Pac 12." The comment didn't bother me as a fan of a WCC school. It bothered me because the observation was so needlessly obvious that it was almost as if he was rubbing it in the face of Gonzaga fans. And does it really mean anything when the Zags have proven you can compete for a national title without BCS credentials?

You talk about being a Pac 12 homer and showing an alarming lack of preparation. He must be unbearable during UCLA games. Look, I am a frequent a viewer of the Big Ten network, and they have the best announcing and analysis of any TV station on the dish....including ESPN, FSN1 and the CBS Sports Network. So it's not just because they're the Pac 12 Network.

ZagnetitForce
12-11-2017, 09:33 AM
I'm another of the ones who actually liked and thought MacLean was very good. Maybe because Zags were kicking arse and I was in a great mood!

BULLDOG#1
12-11-2017, 09:54 AM
Yeah, it was a homer crew. But they weren't that bad, just lazy.

The one comment that suck out to me was regarding Perkins and his 3 point shooting and how UW could give up that shot because Perkins wasn't a 3 point threat. REALLY exposed that he didn't do his homework prior to the game. Perkins being one of the best % 3 point shooters in the country should be on any analysts prep sheet.

seacatfan
12-11-2017, 10:22 AM
Yes, I can go along with that...:D

Also just a tidbit...I believe MacLean was on the last Wooden team to win a NC in 1975...

He played at UCLA during the 90's.


edited--his college career was '89-'92, he's the all time leading scorer at UCLA

seacatfan
12-11-2017, 10:29 AM
I can understand some of the complaints about the broadcast. Honestly the thing I found most distracting was that Don's partner was named Guy and he said his name several dozen times, but I kind of took it as a generic guy rather than the name Guy. Couldn't help but think of the South Park characters Terence and Phillip. "I'm not your guy, buddy."

jake
12-11-2017, 01:27 PM
I don't get the level of sensitivity about being called a "mid-major". There are two ways people classify mid-majors. Some do it on a team by team basis. Some based on what league you're in. I don't see a problem with either view. If the program itself is respected and given proper due, we need to stop getting all bent out of shape anytime someone uses the phrase "mid-major".

kitzbuel
12-11-2017, 04:26 PM
5) MacLean's great insight of the evening, "The WCC fans are not going to like me for saying this, but the Zags are not going to get challenged in the WCC every night like they would in the Pac 12." The comment didn't bother me as a fan of a WCC school. It bothered me because the observation was so needlessly obvious that it was almost as if he was rubbing it in the face of Gonzaga fans. And does it really mean anything when the Zags have proven you can compete for a national title without BCS credentials?
.

That would be talking point straight out of the UW Basketball recruiting how-to guide.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

DixieZag
12-11-2017, 05:25 PM
I don't get the level of sensitivity about being called a "mid-major". There are two ways people classify mid-majors. Some do it on a team by team basis. Some based on what league you're in. I don't see a problem with either view. If the program itself is respected and given proper due, we need to stop getting all bent out of shape anytime someone uses the phrase "mid-major".

I think that accepting the "mid-major" label then leads to some big conference types to pigeon holing you there no matter your accomplishments and then impacts seeding and scheduling.

When you say, "for the last 15 years this program has done nothing mid-major, they recruit, schedule, compete, win games, travel and play in a way that matches the other top 20 teams in the U.S." it produces the perception to fit the reality and leads to positive feedback loops in scheduling, seeding, exposure, etc.

I don't blame the program or its supporters (us) for continually pushing back against the "mid-major" label because those kids and the administrators have earned the right to be labeled for what they are, one of the country's consistently elite programs.

It also factors into whether a conference such as the Big East enters serious talks with us, because they'd in no way open the doors to a "mid-major" with all the expense we bring. They would for an elite team in a new time zone. Last, never put it past those BCS schools to attempt to do with the NCAA tourney what they did with football and claim it for themselves. IF there was ever a push to limit the tourney (and with all that cash there are some that would really like to limit where it goes), they will not take "mid-majors" along for the ride.

I just see it as not accepting someone else's agenda.

Hoopaholic
12-11-2017, 05:29 PM
I think that accepting the "mid-major" label then leads to people around the nation as pigeon holing you there no matter your accomplishments and then impacts seeding and scheduling.

When you say, "for the last 15 years this program has done nothing mid-major, they recruit, schedule, compete, win games, travel and play in a way that matches the other top 20 teams in the U.S." it produces the perception to fit the reality and leads to positive feedback loops in scheduling, seeding, exposure, etc.

I don't blame the program or its supporters (us) for continually pushing back against the "mid-major" label because those kids and the administrators have earned the right to be labeled for what they are, one of the country's consistently elite programs.

I don't think the panel of selectors are influenced by a label

Mid major is an east coast term selected by media to describe any program outside the power 5 imo

VinnyZag
12-11-2017, 05:43 PM
I can understand some of the complaints about the broadcast. Honestly the thing I found most distracting was that Don's partner was named Guy and he said his name several dozen times, but I kind of took it as a generic guy rather than the name Guy. Couldn't help but think of the South Park characters Terence and Phillip. "I'm not your guy, buddy."

I'm not your buddy, pal.

thespywhozaggedme
12-11-2017, 05:58 PM
I don't think the panel of selectors are influenced by a label

Mid major is an east coast term selected by media to describe any program outside the power 5 imo

We are a major program in a mid major conference

SunDevilGolfZag
12-11-2017, 06:29 PM
I had no issue with Maclean, I thought for someone whose job is to know/celebrate the PAC first and foremost he was highly complimentary of (if not always terribly knowledgeable about) the Zags. I was saying to my daughter during the game that I'd take the two announcers last night over most of the garden-variety ESPN crews we are saddled with.
I thought the same

Hoopaholic
12-11-2017, 06:45 PM
We are a major program in a mid major conference

Just win baby.....they can label them what they want just noise to filter out as you focus on your team goals

CDC84
12-12-2017, 08:30 AM
I don't care what they label Gonzaga. Just as long as the media informs people that Gonzaga men's basketball operates at a high, high major level and is worth big bucks. Again, in FY16, Gonzaga's men's basketball - despite not having a football team - generated more revenue and profit than every team in the Pac 12 besides Arizona and UCLA. Unfortunately, the great database that used to exist ( http://www.pointafter.com/) that allowed me to get these numbers went out business, but I saved the FY16 data. Imagine the profit and revenue for GU in FY17? And, as I always love to remind people......Gonzaga flies charter, the Pac 12 doesn't (even though I realize that the decision to not fly charter in the Pac 12 is a league mandate). The point here is that most people, when they think of a mid major, think of a program that lacks the resources and amenities of the power conference schools. I don't think they think of it as a conference thing. This is why it is really important for the media to inform the public that if they want to call GU a mid major, that they must explain their unique situation. I will say this.....CBS and Turner didn't call Gonzaga a mid major one time last March. Or at least I didn't hear it. They just said they were from a non-power league. Here are the FY16 numbers:

Expenses:

Arizona State: $10.06 million
Arizona: $8.98 million
UCLA $8.26 million
Gonzaga $7.36 million
Oregon $6.80 million
Cal $6.46 million
UW $6.34 million
Utah $6.10 million
Oregon $5.64 million
Stanford $5.14 million
WSU $4.85 million
USC $4.77 million
Oregon State $4.67 million

Revenue:

Arizona $19.22 million
UCLA $12.23 million
Gonzaga $12.19 million
UW $9.86 million
Arizona State $9.10 million
Cal $9.00 million
Utah $8.34 million
Oregon $8.31 million
Stanford $6.93 million
Colorado $6.02 million
Oregon State $5.37 million
WSU $5.26 million
USC $4.68 million

Profit:

Arizona $10.24 million
Gonzaga $4.82 million
UCLA $3.97 million
UW $3.52 million
Cal $2.55 million
Utah $2.24 million
Stanford $1.79 million
Oregon $1.51 million
WSU $406,138
Oregon State $693,463
Colorado $383,345
USC -$92,347
Arizona State -$962,561

Zagdawg
12-12-2017, 09:26 AM
Thanks for sharing CDC.

sittingon50
12-12-2017, 10:43 AM
So CDC, to your knowledge is the Zag's charter totally funded by boosters, so as not to effect the profit/loss in any manner?