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cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 05:48 PM
Thatís all.

Malastein
12-10-2017, 05:54 PM
He’s a bit too much of a gunner, but as he plays within the offense more and more then he could very well become a star. 2-11 from 3 land ain’t great.

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 05:58 PM
All conference. At least 2d team. Book it.

zag67
12-10-2017, 06:11 PM
I do not think that he is a gunner. He is doing what the coaches want and when missing he is told to keep shooting the open shots. When he is making them he is told to take the open shots. He, Kispert, Melson, and Perkins are shooting to open up the inside. I look watching them go in then back out.

zagbeliever
12-10-2017, 06:12 PM
He was solid tonight.

bballbeachbum
12-10-2017, 06:13 PM
He’s a bit too much of a gunner, but as he plays within the offense more and more then he could very well become a star. 2-11 from 3 land ain’t great.

no it's not great. he was 4-5 from 2 and 7-8 from the line tho, showed some serious competitive fire out there too

MileHigh
12-10-2017, 06:13 PM
I think Kispert my have got "Wally Pipped"

former1dog
12-10-2017, 06:14 PM
I think Kispert my have got "Wally Pipped"

You're going to have to explain this?

23dpg
12-10-2017, 06:16 PM
You're going to have to explain this?

Wally Pipp sat out of a baseball game with an illness. He was replaced by some guy named Lou Gehrig.

I don’t buy this analogy btw.

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 06:16 PM
You're going to have to explain this?

Pipp was man Gehrig replaced and never got back at first for the Yanks, who just acquired Giancarlo. Start spreading the news....

former1dog
12-10-2017, 06:18 PM
Pipp was man Gehrig replaced and never got back at first for the Yanks, who just acquired Giancarlo. Start spreading the news....

I had heard that story before, slow on the rememberance. :)

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 06:21 PM
Kispert played like Pipp tonite.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:23 PM
All conference. At least 2d team. Book it.

And Freshman of the Year in the WCC. He's going to have some very big nights against the dregs of the WCC.

strikenowhere
12-10-2017, 06:23 PM
Come back to this when he stops having 2-11 3pt nights. Until then he's just a streaky, but good player.

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 06:25 PM
Come back to this when he stops having 2-11 3pt nights. Until then he's just a streaky, but good player.

More likely he will have plenty of 8-11 nights.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:26 PM
You're going to have to explain this?

Incorrect analogy...he was Lenn Sakata-ed. lolol

That's putting a Gonzaga perspective on it.

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 06:27 PM
Come back to this when he stops having 2-11 3pt nights. Until then he's just a streaky, but good player.

Just disregard 4-5 from 2 and 7-8 from stripe? I’m even more impressed by this considering the poor 3pt shooting night. His game isn’t reliant on the 3.

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 06:29 PM
Incorrect analogy...he was Lenn Sakata-ed. lolol

That's putting a Gonzaga perspective on it.

Did he go to Columbia too?

Section 116
12-10-2017, 06:31 PM
Michaelson was not overly concerned with Norvells shooting from three tonight!

MileHigh
12-10-2017, 06:31 PM
As good as Norvell is playing I almost think he might be better coming off the bench providing some fire power for the 2nd unit. Vinnie Johnson style.

Only problem is that he deserves to start at this point, he might be the best pure scorer on the team.

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 06:32 PM
The dude is a flat out scorer. He can shoot, he can slash, he can distribute the ball. He ain't great at defense, but when he scores more than you, so what. lol

Zagceo
12-10-2017, 06:33 PM
36min ....looked strong

ZagMan in Philly
12-10-2017, 06:36 PM
The dude is a flat out scorer. He can shoot, he can slash, he can distribute the ball. He ain't great at defense, but when he scores more than you, so what. lol

He can elevate too.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:36 PM
Did he go to Columbia too?

You're pulling my leg, aren't you?

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 06:37 PM
He can elevate too.

Yeah, more than I had read he could. I know I've been hammered for it, but I've been saying since day one, he's a better GBJ, and that's no knock on Gary. ZN may lead the conference in scoring his junior year.

bartruff1
12-10-2017, 06:38 PM
Donny said after Norvell was 0-6......well he has them right where he wants them....

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:38 PM
Yeah, more than I had read he could. I know I've been hammered for it, but I've been saying since day one, he's a better GBJ, and that's no knock on Gary. ZN may lead the conference in scoring his junior year.

Who's to say he won't do it this year?

mtzaga
12-10-2017, 06:38 PM
As good as Norvell is playing I almost think he might be better coming off the bench providing some fire power for the 2nd unit. Vinnie Johnson style.

Only problem is that he deserves to start at this point, he might be the best pure scorer on the team.

During the Nova game, Jay Bilas said ZN was a microwave.....not The Microwave.

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 06:39 PM
You're pulling my leg, aren't you?

No, that was Monte Stratton. Jimmy Stewart played both.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:39 PM
Donny said after Norvell was 0-6......well he has them right where he wants them....

Yeah, Zach's confidence in himself is well documented.

Ekrub
12-10-2017, 06:40 PM
Gets to the rim and puts pressure on opponents bigs. Love his game. 2 of 11 wasn't great but a few were with shot clock running out, some were good shots just missed.

CdAZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:40 PM
He's doing great in my opinion - has been a little streaky, but I think he'll work the kinks out through the season. His game really looks suited to the fast break style - so if Few lets the ponies loose sometime this year, I think this is the guy you'd want out on the floor.

strikenowhere
12-10-2017, 06:40 PM
Just disregard 4-5 from 2 and 7-8 from stripe? I’m even more impressed by this considering the poor 3pt shooting night. His game isn’t reliant on the 3.

Then why is he taking 11 3's? I'm not against Norvell at all; he is good now and with a year under his belt will be on his way to greatness next year and beyond. However right now he's a bit of a chucker, something which should improve with more game experience. You could see Few getting annoyed with the quick shots he was taking during the game, all the more of an issue when he's missing them.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:42 PM
No, that was Monte Stratton. Jimmy Stewart played both.

Both were good movies. For the benefit of the youngsters out there, do I need to elaborate on Mr. Sakata? He lived across the hall from me my sophomore year, back when Robinson was a dormitory.

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 06:42 PM
Then why is he taking 11 3's? I'm not against Norvell at all; he is good now and with a year under his belt will be on his way to greatness next year and beyond. However right now he's a bit of a chucker, something which should improve with more game experience. You could see Few getting annoyed with the quick shots he was taking during the game, all the more of an issue when he's missing them.

If he’s a chucker, so is Kispert.

DixieZag
12-10-2017, 06:46 PM
Donny said after Norvell was 0-6......well he has them right where he wants them....

Which is all well and good, but (and I'm thrilled that he's really becoming the secret weapon we need, much like the scoring Pac Sr. txs of the last couple years), but I really think it'd be fine if someone said that starting out 4 of 5 could make one also say he has them right where he wants them. Just sayin' :)

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 06:50 PM
Zach's averaging 20 ppg in the last 4. Coming of age? he'll be a star if he learns defense and picks his shots a bit better.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4066649/zach-norvell-jr
Blessed to have both Corey and Zach on the same team and same years of play i.e. both have 3 years to play with each other.

john montana
12-10-2017, 06:54 PM
He took a couple of bad shots, but not many. Gotta live with those with a scorers like Zach.

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 06:55 PM
Zach's averaging 20 ppg in the last 4. Coming of age? he'll be a star if he learns defense and picks his shots a bit better.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4066649/zach-norvell-jr
Blessed to have both Corey and Zach on the same team and same years of play i.e. both have 3 years to play with each other.

I said something similar in the thread about next year. A Perks, ZN and CK starting 1,2 and 3 next year will be sick.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:55 PM
Zach's averaging 20 ppg in the last 4. Coming of age? he'll be a star if he learns defense and picks his shots a bit better.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4066649/zach-norvell-jr
Blessed to have both Corey and Zach on the same team and same years of play i.e. both have 3 years to play with each other.

Check out 116's post game thread. Zach states he needs to improve on his defense.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:56 PM
I said something similar in the thread about next year. A Perks, ZN and CK starting 1,2 and 3 next year will be sick.

Add Brandon Clarke at the 4, Larsen at the 5, and you've got a top ten team.

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 07:05 PM
Add Brandon Clarke at the 4, Larsen at the 5, and you've got a top ten team.

Ha, I started a thread with that very same noton:

Never too early: next years potential starting lineup
PG: Perk
SG: ZN
SF: Kispert
PF: Clarke
C: The Great Dane

That starting 5 is SICK!!



http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?61618-Never-too-early-next-years-potential-starting-lineup

seacatfan
12-10-2017, 07:05 PM
I've been saying since day one, he's a better GBJ, and that's no knock on Gary

I was a GBJ fan. I'd say that already 10 games into his career Norvell is better driving and finishing than Bell ever was.

JPtheBeasta
12-10-2017, 07:07 PM
Michaelson was not overly concerned with Norvells shooting from three tonight!

He was putting a lot of pressure on the defense. He settles for the 3 too much, in my opinion. He is the closest we have to NWG at scoring off the bounce. I would like to see him get it going at the hoop before settling for 3's. He is poised to be a prolific scorer as an upper classman.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 07:09 PM
He was putting a lot of pressure on the defense. He settles for the 3 too much, in my opinion. He is the closest we have to NWG at scoring off the bounce. I would like to see him get it going at the hoop before settling for 3's. He is poised to be a prolific scorer as an upper classman.

He's my dark horse candidate to lead the WCC in scoring this year. With the exception of Corey, Zach's my favorite for Newcomer of the Year in the WCC.

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 07:12 PM
He took a couple of bad shots, but not many. Gotta live with those with a scorers like Zach.

Exactly. The great scorers put em up. A 2-11 one game can just as easily be a 9-11 the next. You take the good with the bad when it comes to true scorers.

You may have seen Few not love some of the shots but he certainly never gave him the hook because of those. Tells me Few understands Zach’s game.

bballbeachbum
12-10-2017, 07:12 PM
I was a GBJ fan. I'd say that already 10 games into his career Norvell is better driving and finishing than Bell ever was.

I am too, a huge fan, and that was a hole in GBjs game generally, and totally agree with you on Zach

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 07:13 PM
I was a GBJ fan. I'd say that already 10 games into his career Norvell is better driving and finishing than Bell ever was.

Yes, that's what I've been saying and for some odd reason many posters get personally offended. I'm an early adopter, they'll come around. It's not a knock on GBJ at all, ZN just has the "it" factor.

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 07:14 PM
He's my dark horse candidate to lead the WCC in scoring this year. With the exception of Corey, Zach's my favorite for Newcomer of the Year in the WCC.

CK may have gotten Wally Pipp'd tonight

JPtheBeasta
12-10-2017, 07:14 PM
He's my dark horse candidate to lead the WCC in scoring this year. With the exception of Corey, Zach's my favorite for Newcomer of the Year in the WCC.

I'm glad he's on our team. He's the kind of guy that would give us headaches if he were on another WCC team... that kind of guy like Brownridge that seems to have played 6 years when all was said an done and single handedly kept his team in every game. He's a talented scorer, for sure.

Zagceo
12-10-2017, 07:15 PM
Then why is he taking 11 3's? I'm not against Norvell at all; he is good now and with a year under his belt will be on his way to greatness next year and beyond. However right now he's a bit of a chucker, something which should improve with more game experience. You could see Few getting annoyed with the quick shots he was taking during the game, all the more of an issue when he's missing them.

Few is not hard to read.....Zach played 36min against Huskies...most of any Zag..

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 07:15 PM
Exactly. The great scorers put em up. A 2-11 one game can just as easily be a 9-11 the next. You take the good with the bad when it comes to true scorers.

You may have seen Few not love some of the shots but he certainly never gave him the hook because of those. Tells me Few understands Zach’s game.

Yup, just like Ammo. Few knows a natural born scorer when he sees one and it looks like we may have our first true big time scorer since Ammo.

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 07:16 PM
I'm glad he's on our team. He's the kind of guy that would give us headaches if he were on another WCC team... that kind of guy like Brownridge that seems to have played 6 years when all was said an done and single handedly kept his team in every game. He's a talented scorer, for sure.

Except Brownridge was 5'11 on a good day, ZN is a legit 6'4, if not bigger.

Goshzagit
12-10-2017, 07:16 PM
Zach's averaging 20 ppg in the last 4. Coming of age? he'll be a star if he learns defense and picks his shots a bit better.

this.

Lacking defense is normal for a 1st year player.

He will go from talented and good, to unstoppable and great when he chooses his overall shots better and plays more within the flow of the game.

He's a scorer, and can score in bunches, yet still has much to learn.

JPtheBeasta
12-10-2017, 07:20 PM
CK may have gotten Wally Pipp'd tonight

He might have Wally Pipped himself. I would have liked to see him at least give it a go the past two games. I'm worried that he is letting himself be a freshman and letting other people step in front of him. I'm obviously reading a lot into it, because a sprained ankle can be tough, but people at the games said he was warming up and looking ok.

Zach Norvell doesn't seem to have a conscience. Good or bad, no moment looks too big for ZN.

ZagOD7540
12-10-2017, 07:20 PM
Norvell and Kispert on the wings will be ridiculous in years to come

JPtheBeasta
12-10-2017, 07:23 PM
Except Brownridge was 5'11 on a good day, ZN is a legit 6'4, if not bigger.

Brownridge was a better shooter, too. I wasn't trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison- more just the overall oeuvre of a player like him

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 07:26 PM
Brownridge was a better shooter, too. I wasn't trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison- more just the overall oeuvre of a player like him

Natural born scorers, the both of them. I agree.

bartruff1
12-10-2017, 07:35 PM
I was a GBJ fan. I'd say that already 10 games into his career Norvell is better driving and finishing than Bell ever was.

Bell had additional skills....

sittingon50
12-10-2017, 07:46 PM
Bell had additional skills....

Could really play Shakespeare!

;)

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 07:50 PM
Could really play Shakespeare!

;)

Aren't you thinking of Steven Gray? ;)

Zagceo
12-10-2017, 07:54 PM
Aren't you thinking of Steven Gray? ;)

well played sir :clap:

ZionZag
12-10-2017, 07:57 PM
Few is not hard to read.....Zach played 36min against Huskies...most of any Zag..

I agree and he'll continue to get that type of minutes....The coaches really know what they've got and mentioned it from time to time last year....

sittingon50
12-10-2017, 08:00 PM
Aren't you thinking of Steven Gray? ;)

Yep. I screwed up.

Sorry, I get giddy when the Zags put a beatdown on the huskies.

Bogozags
12-10-2017, 08:01 PM
All conference. At least 2d team. Book it.

I think JWIII, Melson and either Zach or Cory will be on the first or second team with the other being the choice for Rookie of the Year...Melson could well earn D player of the year too!

Bogozags
12-10-2017, 08:07 PM
He might have Wally Pipped himself. I would have liked to see him at least give it a go the past two games. I'm worried that he is letting himself be a freshman and letting other people step in front of him. I'm obviously reading a lot into it, because a sprained ankle can be tough, but people at the games said he was warming up and looking ok.

Zach Norvell doesn't seem to have a conscience. Good or bad, no moment looks too big for ZN.

Good shooters don't have a conscience...Adam didn't and neither of these two have ever taken a bad shot...just good shots that didn't fall...Zach could be a GREAT one at GU...playing better "D" just turned over the ball twice in the second half on poor lob passes to the post...he'll get better and has each game...still a freshman

I like our future with Cory and Zach at the SG and SF for the next two-four years...

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 08:11 PM
Yep. I screwed up.

Sorry, I get giddy when the Zags put a beatdown on the huskies.

Since no one bit on my early post referencing Lenn Sakata, allow me to explain to those who may not know:

Lenn was the last man to play shortstop for the Baltimore Orioles before Cal Ripken started his streak. Lenn was one of the greatest baseball Zags ever, and played in the majors for close to ten years.

JPtheBeasta
12-10-2017, 08:13 PM
Good shooters don't have a conscience...Adam didn't and neither of these two have ever taken a bad shot...just good shots that didn't fall...Zach could be a GREAT one at GU...playing better "D" just turned over the ball twice in the second half on poor lob passes to the post...he'll get better and has each game...still a freshman

I like our future with Cory and Zach at the SG and SF for the next two-four years...
I agree that the future is bright. I really like both of these guys, and it's crazy to think that they are both freshman.

GonzaGAW
12-10-2017, 08:17 PM
- he has already shown he has the talent to be a star
- but he knows and said so after the game, he needs to improve his defense, and I see no reason why he won't get coached up on that.
- I love that he has great confidence, but confidence does not put the ball in the basket, I think he still needs to work on getting his feet and weight properly set for his shot.

wcc freshman, new comer of the year
wcc first team player, sophomore
wcc player of the year, junior

bartruff1
12-10-2017, 08:23 PM
Bell had additional skills....

IMHO Gary was among the most "team first" players at Gonzaga....

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 08:24 PM
- he has already shown he has the talent to be a star
- but he knows and said so after the game, he needs to improve his defense, and I see no reason why he won't get coached up on that.
- I love that he has great confidence, but confidence does not put the ball in the basket, I think he still needs to work on getting his feet and weight properly set for his shot.

wcc freshman, new comer of the year
wcc first team player, sophomore
wcc player of the year, junior

I love your optimism, that Zach will be here for three years! :lmao:

jim77
12-10-2017, 08:32 PM
Zack quite simply is not overwhelmed by the situation....Not against NOVA...not against anybody. He reminds me of that fella who showed up at MSG a decade plus ago. AMMO......if we needed somebody to get us a bucket at the end of a game right now...my choice would be Norvell.

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 08:46 PM
IMHO Gary was among the most "team first" players at Gonzaga....

you quoted yourself. :roll::clap:

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 08:47 PM
He's averaging 12ppg for the season and 20ppg over the last four. And that's before he's feasted on WCC foes.

Worthington
12-10-2017, 08:48 PM
He's been amazing, the future is so bright for him. Think he has lots of room for improvement too, especially on the defensive end. Shot selection and cutting down on the sloppy turnovers need some work, but that will come with experience. Like that Few has given him a long leash, it's paid off so far.

sittingon50
12-10-2017, 09:00 PM
Since no one bit on my early post referencing Lenn Sakata, allow me to explain to those who may not know:

Lenn was the last man to play shortstop for the Baltimore Orioles before Cal Ripken started his streak. Lenn was one of the greatest baseball Zags ever, and played in the majors for close to ten years.

I got it TZF. Hardball is my 1st love.

DixieZag
12-10-2017, 09:15 PM
- he has already shown he has the talent to be a star
- but he knows and said so after the game, he needs to improve his defense, and I see no reason why he won't get coached up on that.
- I love that he has great confidence, but confidence does not put the ball in the basket, I think he still needs to work on getting his feet and weight properly set for his shot.

wcc freshman, new comer of the year
wcc first team player, sophomore
wcc player of the year, junior

Yes, this. He will only improve if he does that.

I read a direct quote from Wiltjer one time stating that the staff told him to "commit" and "invest" in every shot he takes, make it "special" - using words to that effect, all sounding like a means to slow down a natural gunner's thought process, precisely to get him to "invest" in the proper mechanics for every single shot, no throways, flings, or "heat checks."

Norvelle will likely get something identical, to value every time he has the shot in the offense, and not take one without "investing fully" into the whole process, the square, the legs, the elbow in, the follow through - the percentages will go up, attempts will trickle down just enough.

BTW, the comparrisons to GBJ aren't all too useful to me bc I see them as entirely different players with different roles and definitely different people. Bell is one of my all-time favorite Zags bc I listen to Few and Bell was one of Few's all-time favorite Zags. Few said one time (direct quote): "He's never had a single bad practice, comes to work with the same commitment every day, leading by example." I don't know how one could garner higher praise from Few.

Bell played in the shadow of Pangos and embraced the role of the second man, the one you don't hear as much from, with a level of maturity above the average player at each stage (in a program already known for mature players). I always felt that Gary's presence allowed Kevin to fully be Kevin, knowing that a solid foundation played right alongside. Kevin would bang some heads, Gary would glance at a guy wrong. All this is just paraphrasing things Few said.

Norvelle will be his own man, and likely be more vocal leader, but perhaps not as steady, will run hotter and colder, a trait I can certainly relate. It takes a mix of both. But, I think the more proper comprisson for Norvelle will not be Gary, but will be Kevin, even if Kevin was the PG and Norvelle isn't. The dynamic is far more similar than GBJ, and that's not putting one over the other, just highlighting who they are aside from position.

CDC84
12-10-2017, 09:17 PM
His shooting percentages were not all that great tonight, but he makes plays. I'd like to see him drive to the hoop more and not huck up so many threes.

I still think there's a good chance that Kispert will take over his starting spot at some point because Norvell has a long way to go defensively. He's possibly the greatest defensive liability on the team....except Norlander considers Rui to be AWFUL on defense.

Birddog
12-11-2017, 04:52 AM
Since no one bit on my early post referencing Lenn Sakata, allow me to explain to those who may not know:

Lenn was the last man to play shortstop for the Baltimore Orioles before Cal Ripken started his streak. Lenn was one of the greatest baseball Zags ever, and played in the majors for close to ten years.

I knew that answer but left it for others. I was thinking that Len was still in baseball so i Wiki'd him. It's worth a read for some other trivial information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenn_Sakata

bigblahla
12-11-2017, 06:40 AM
What's below I posted in May,,,,haven't seen anything to change my mind.

I think ZN will be the most dynamic player to wear a GU uni since Ammo....not discounting NWG who's play this last season was almost other worldly...Norville is an athletic scoring machine, a shooter and a facilitator all rolled into one...if his knee is healthy he can carry a TEAM on the offensive end if need be...fortunately he will have lot's of help...I'm very high on both ZN and JW...BZ you called it right but I think Kispert is gonna rock too...

not worried at all about next season....Zags are gonna be explosive on offense and the D should be tenacious as in TENACIOUS D

Go!! Zags!!!

Unbiased
12-11-2017, 07:04 AM
Zack quite simply is not overwhelmed by the situation....Not against NOVA...not against anybody. He reminds me of that fella who showed up at MSG a decade plus ago. AMMO......if we needed somebody to get us a bucket at the end of a game right now...my choice would be Norvell.

+1

jazzdelmar
12-11-2017, 07:23 AM
+1

Chicago.

zaguarxj
12-11-2017, 07:43 AM
Is it too late for him to learn how to play defense? I'm kind of astonished that someone with Norvell's athletic ability can be such a defensive liability. It's 90% mental and the other half is physical.

TexasZagFan
12-11-2017, 07:46 AM
Is it too late for him to learn how to play defense? I'm kind of astonished that someone with Norvell's athletic ability can be such a defensive liability. It's 90% mental and the other half is physical.

I recommend that you check 116's post game radio thread. Zach knows that he has to improve on defense.

Is it too late? Puh-leeze, he's now played a whopping ten games of Div I hoops.

thespywhozaggedme
12-11-2017, 07:53 AM
Is it too late for him to learn how to play defense? I'm kind of astonished that someone with Norvell's athletic ability can be such a defensive liability. It's 90% mental and the other half is physical.

Is he really as bad at defense as people are saying? I get the impression that one person kept saying it and it's taken on a life of his own. He's not great at defense, but wasn't he the one that stole the ball and made the monster dunk and and 1?

bigblahla
12-11-2017, 07:56 AM
Is he really as bad at defense as people are saying? I get the impression that one person kept saying it and it's taken on a life of his own. He's not great at defense, but wasn't he the one that stole the ball and made the monster dunk and and 1?

I could be wrong but think he leads the TEAM in steals...

Go!! Zags!!

TexasZagFan
12-11-2017, 07:57 AM
I could be wrong but think he leads the TEAM in steals...

Go!! Zags!!

Only because Lavar never thought of sending Liangelo to the Zags.

zaguarxj
12-11-2017, 08:04 AM
Is he really as bad at defense as people are saying? I get the impression that one person kept saying it and it's taken on a life of his own. He's not great at defense, but wasn't he the one that stole the ball and made the monster dunk and and 1?

Watch a replay of the Villanova game and decide for yourself.

Zagnificent
12-11-2017, 08:05 AM
Norvell is better at finishing at the rim than any Zag I've ever seen. When I see him go up, I have complete confidence that he'll either get the roll, or get the foul. I don't know how he does it, but I wish that could rub off on Josh.

TexasZagFan
12-11-2017, 08:09 AM
Watch a replay of the Villanova game and decide for yourself.

One game is a pretty small sample size IMO.

Hoopaholic
12-11-2017, 08:41 AM
Is he really as bad at defense as people are saying? I get the impression that one person kept saying it and it's taken on a life of his own. He's not great at defense, but wasn't he the one that stole the ball and made the monster dunk and and 1?

he has areas to clean up...especially off ball rotation, angles and knowledge of when to hedge and when not to hedge

on ball he opens the tailgate (front or up leg on defense) which leads to straight angles for dribbler (usually to the hole) and really needs to clean this on ball issue up to become a premier player

he is not awefule but he has a long ways to go to become above average defender of which I think his skill sets will let him if his mindset is engaged and a true desire to be a top level D1 player on both sides court

BULLDOG#1
12-11-2017, 10:08 AM
Norvell is better than I expected, but calling him a star is way premature.

He's a volume chucker and clearly can rack up points in a hurry... 2-11 from three isn't exactly awe-inspiring, but he's got the confidence to jack up 11 threes when most of them aren't going down and Few keeps him in the game, so obviously he's in the game to put up shots. He does have a knack for scoring the ball, a'la ammo, but putting him at that level isn't really justified.

His defense is really that bad, yes. His rotations are terrible and his zone defense is just awful. I thought, watching a few games, that there's no way Few can keep him in the game because he's giving up so many open looks and there's no way he can justify that by scoring as much as he does. That said, he knows it's an issue and no doubt will work to improve it - the coaching staff will make sure of it.

He's well ahead of schedule, though, and I believe what most people are saying here that he could be an all-time scoring type zag. Having a long list of quality post players along side of him, I expect he'll destroy the WCC for years.

thespywhozaggedme
12-11-2017, 11:21 AM
Watch a replay of the Villanova game and decide for yourself.

OK, one game. I Will concede that he is not great at it, but again I think it's become the group think mentality to state that he is terrible at it.

zaguarxj
12-11-2017, 11:33 AM
One game is a pretty small sample size IMO.

That game was notable because the results of his mistakes were so spectacular, in terms of 'Nova highlight-reel plays. Pick any game you like. If a dummy like me can see it, it's got to be pretty obvious.

rennis
12-11-2017, 11:39 AM
He has the greenest green light as a Frosh since Pangos. Goodness he takes a lot of shots. Can't wait for him to figure out when to holster it once in a while.

jazzdelmar
12-11-2017, 11:41 AM
Why pick the kid apart. He’s got superstar written all over him. Do you seriously think Few doesn’t see this as well and is willing to live with his current shortcomings. Look for a 30 point game soon.

Goshzagit
12-11-2017, 11:53 AM
Why pick the kid apart. He’s got superstar written all over him. Do you seriously think Few doesn’t see this as well and is willing to live with his current shortcomings. Look for a 30 point game soon.

I agree with this.

I have zero issue with Norvell's green light, or even going 2-11 from 3pt, or 0-6 3pt in a half, etc.

Its when those shots are occurring. In the first 2 seconds of shot clock in half-court set? That just isn't GU bball/philosophy.

The game plan last night was to out run the zone, shoot early and often when open, etc, yet as well as Perkins, even Silas was shooting it, well maybe those shots were too trigger happy.

That said, gotta let the kid play, gotta let him ball. Its his genes, his game. I think he earned major respect by Coach Few in New York. Every other guard had a scared look on their face, hesitant play, and no decisiveness vs a smart Nova team.

Well, Norvell went AT them. Few knows he is EXACTLY the type of player we need in March. Remember NWG vs South Carolina after they smacked us in the mouth? He went AT them, when everyone shied away (save Collins of course). He tried to do the same vs UNC in 2nd half, but his ankle was toast. That bum ankle, along with Karno's inexplicable misses kept us from a Natty.

Point is, Norvell is fearless and can score every which way. Big boy pants at all times. Our guards rarely if ever sacrifice their bodies in transition or chance to capture moment, Norvell seizes it. That means something, esp in a battle.

He does more good than bad on the court and his points, even mindset are needed.

I wish he would refine his shot selection a bit more, he could go from good and budding talent, to a current great with more awareness of situations, otherwise, I'll take it.

bigblahla
12-11-2017, 11:54 AM
Why pick the kid apart. He’s got superstar written all over him. Do you seriously think Few doesn’t see this as well and is willing to live with his current shortcomings. Look for a 30 point game soon.

Try 40, he is that good. he'll have a game where he will hit 8 3's and 16 more from two and the foul line. Coach knows what he has and there ain't no leash on Snacks...

Can't wait until Wade gets in the flow. With some experience behind them Norvell, Wade and Kispert on the court together should scare the hell out of any defense.

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

Goshzagit
12-11-2017, 11:59 AM
With some experience behind them Norvell, Wade and Kispert on the court together should scare the hell out of any defense.


...while any offense will be licking their chops.

An awful defensive trio above.

thespywhozaggedme
12-11-2017, 12:42 PM
...while any offense will be licking their chops.

An awful defensive trio above.

As long as you outscore your opponent, so what.

Unbiased
12-11-2017, 12:47 PM
Why pick the kid apart. Heís got superstar written all over him. Do you seriously think Few doesnít see this as well and is willing to live with his current shortcomings. Look for a 30 point game soon.

+ 1

strikenowhere
12-11-2017, 12:55 PM
As long as you outscore your opponent, so what.

Did we not learn anything from last year's team? Offense wins you the easy games; defense wins you the tough ones.

tinfoilzag
12-11-2017, 01:35 PM
Norvell is better at finishing at the rim than any Zag I've ever seen.

That's a bold statement. ;)

Just limiting it to GU guards I would put another Chicago native, Pargo, ahead of Norvell (right now).

I think the difference between them is that teams have to respect Norvell's outside shot where as teams would take their chances with Pargo on the perimeter. This hurt Pargo's ability to drive as they would play so far off of him. To his credit, Norvell is an excellent free throw shooter as well.

The list of big men inside that were automatic at the rim is long and i would say JP leads the charge there (but I would hear arguments for Domas).

amaronizag
12-11-2017, 01:42 PM
The only way to win is by scoring more points than your opponent. When a teams shots aren't falling, players have to keep firing and find a way to put up more shots than their opponent to pull out a win. Defense is an equal part or the equation because you need to have stops, steals, and force turnovers to get your shot total enough higher to win.
I love that Norvell keeps firing even when the shots aren't falling and yet he keeps finding ways to score. He may exceed the 16 points per game I predicted for him before the season. I think GU could also end up averaging more than the 86 points per game I predicted preseason. Everybody on this forum was super excited preseason to watch this team fire shots from all positions. I'm really having fun watching it all unfold.

thespywhozaggedme
12-11-2017, 01:54 PM
Did we not learn anything from last year's team? Offense wins you the easy games; defense wins you the tough ones.

You have to more score more points than your opponent to win a game

irishzag_09
12-11-2017, 02:05 PM
Biggest thing in my eyes, is both guys are shooting the rock. What we need from one of them is DO NOT turn the ball over, so value possessions along with MAKE YOUR FREE THROWS and REBOUND. Norvell gets the nod from the charity stripe, Kispert gets the nod for not throwing the basketball away and rebounding.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2250

MDABE80
12-11-2017, 02:13 PM
Back to Zach Norvell. He' in his first D1 season.Allthough he doesn't quite show the variety of shots Adam did, he's got 2/3rds of this season plus 3 more to add points and learn other skills. Yes he's not a deadeye just yet but he's got time. It's just a matter of practice. He'll be a great one for us and he may snag a 25 ppg season. I love his height and his length.
Needs to play defense ( he's better but just not quite there yet). Looks like Few found a tremendous play for us. Him and Corey are just 2 tremendous finds. I think we'll be seeing both on the court in the near future. 2 superior bigs and a good PG. Looks like Josh is it. It's just a matter organizing the talent. We have the bigs and we have shooters . Zach is on a roll so let's have fun with that.

Defense is key. Few knows it. I'm wondering why the kids don't seem to be buying in. They did a good job on UW. Hope to see improvement in the weeks to come.

jazzdelmar
12-11-2017, 03:10 PM
JP?




That's a bold statement. ;)

Just limiting it to GU guards I would put another Chicago native, Pargo, ahead of Norvell (right now).

I think the difference between them is that teams have to respect Norvell's outside shot where as teams would take their chances with Pargo on the perimeter. This hurt Pargo's ability to drive as they would play so far off of him. To his credit, Norvell is an excellent free throw shooter as well.

The list of big men inside that were automatic at the rim is long and i would say JP leads the charge there (but I would hear arguments for Domas).

gu03alum
12-11-2017, 03:14 PM
I have been looking high and low. Does anyone have a link to video of Norvell dunk last night? I saw it live, but want to see a replay.

tinfoilzag
12-11-2017, 03:21 PM
JP?

Sorry Jo„o Paulo Batista. I should of spelled it out with all the JP's we've had (and have).

MDABE80
12-11-2017, 03:22 PM
It's on ESPN.

Unbiased
12-11-2017, 03:35 PM
Back to Zach Norvell. He' in his first D1 season.Allthough he doesn't quite show the variety of shots Adam did, he's got 2/3rds of this season plus 3 more to add points. ..... Him and Corey are just 2 tremendous finds..

Agree. Gonzaga is blessed with these two going forward for at least the next two years.

amaronizag
12-11-2017, 03:37 PM
I HOPE we get 2 more years out of both of them!!

jazzdelmar
12-11-2017, 03:46 PM
Sorry Jo„o Paulo Batista. I should of spelled it out with all the JP's we've had (and have).

My bad. Yes, he was The Closer.

jazzdelmar
12-11-2017, 03:47 PM
I HOPE we get 2 more years out of both of them!!

Rui, Norvell, Kissy, Larsen two years hence. Yikes.

Birddog
12-11-2017, 04:01 PM
Some game highlights and the latest on the Ball's activities over on the right.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/video?gameId=400986883

raise the zag
12-11-2017, 04:02 PM
Not every Zag leaves early for the NBA after their Sophomore year now....or do they?

Sheesh, what has happened?

Sometimes I feel we're over-hyped, even by NBA scouts, who follow us around these days.

Didn't Villanova just serve us a huge slice of humble pie?

thespywhozaggedme
12-11-2017, 04:24 PM
Not every Zag leaves early for the NBA after their Sophomore year now....or do they?

Sheesh, what has happened?

Sometimes I feel we're over-hyped, even by NBA scouts, who follow us around these days.

Didn't Villanova just serve us a huge slice of humble pie?

Losing to the number one team in the nation on what was essentially a Home court for them is not humble pie by any means.

StocktonZag
12-11-2017, 08:14 PM
Incorrect analogy...he was Lenn Sakata-ed. lolol

That's putting a Gonzaga perspective on it.

I really really lik(ed) Lenny (and good on you for getting his name correct). I wished I had the full back story on the meeting and resulting actions that tanked his ncaa eligibility after his Sophomore year. Good man and a pleasure to have made his acquaintance during our time on campus.

WallaWallaZag
12-11-2017, 08:49 PM
Losing to the number one team in the nation on what was essentially a Home court for them is not humble pie by any means.

nova controlled that game throughout...wasn't a back and forth game like florida...if your team has a goal of going deep in march and gets dominated in a game, how was that game not humble pie???

as good as norvell was on offense in msg after the game was decided, he missed two wide open threes where the zags ran their o to perfection in the first half which could have kept the game within a more reasonable distance.

bigblahla
12-12-2017, 01:29 AM
nova controlled that game throughout...wasn't a back and forth game like Florida...if your team has a goal of going deep in march and gets dominated in a game, how was that game not humble pie???as good as Norvell was on offense in MSG after the game was decided, he missed two wide open threes when the Zags ran their "O" to perfection in the first half which could have kept the game within a more reasonable distance.

Hey WWZ not picking on you but seriously....missed two 3's.....so what? Who doesn't miss? The best TEAM on that day won....For this Zag fan I had a hard time watching Pargo his first two years, he was a damn good baller but made poor decisions. Harris couldn't dribble the ball up court with any surety into his junior year.....Perkins as good as he is still has too many brain farts....Experience either cures the ills or it doesn't....so for all you doubters....EXPERIENCE is the key....

For those of us who believe we see the potential....the future is damn bright if you are a Gonzaga fan. I'll still stick Wade in with them, the kid is a gym rat baller and if the shoulder doesn't get him he will become an asset for the Zags....as far as "D" Norvell, Kispert and Wade will get better and with Clarke & Larsen protecting the rim, this Zag fan is not worried about "D". The object is to score the most points. The Zags can put 3 dead-eye shooters on the court at the same time with a rough and tough front court that's also able to score and I, for one, hope to see it happen.

Just my opinion

Go!! Zags!!!

GoZags
12-12-2017, 05:07 AM
Rui, Norvell, Kissy, Larsen two years hence. Yikes.

What 'till you "meet" Joel Ayayi.

Ekrub
12-12-2017, 05:54 AM
Wiltjer and Ammo didn't have a defensive bone in their body. Preseason poy (don't know what team he ended up on, think Hon mention aa) and Poy... Suspect Norvell will follow in those footsteps.

JPtheBeasta
12-12-2017, 06:04 AM
What 'till you "meet" Joel Ayayi.

In the interview that was posted here recently he was already taking NBA. Are we going to be “meeting” an NBA caliber PG next year? (If this is too much a thread hi jack please ignore).

JPtheBeasta
12-12-2017, 06:07 AM
The thing with the defensive problems is that it is demoralizing for the whole team to have a break down. Attention to detail is what separates good from great. Someone might even be a good on-ball defender but not make the right decisions within the team concept, such as switches, going over the screen instead of under, and things like that. Offense comes very naturally for Norvell, so he should be able to focus on defense and it seems that it is only a matter of time before it becomes more instinctive for him.

Reborn
12-12-2017, 07:07 AM
I like Norvell a lot. I always have from the old recruiting days to now. i COULD hardly wait to see him in a Zag uni. I think he's playing really good. I think he's a good rebounder too. On defense I see a kid who's really trying. He's certainly willing to take a charge. Gonzaga beat UW 97- to something. I think we won by 27 points. I don't see how his 2-11 shooting from behind the arc hurt the Zags. AND his 3 point shooting really helped the team against Creighton. We may have lost that game against Creighton if Norvell had not been hitting those threes.
I believe the reason that Few plays him so much is that the team needs him to be in the game. If the team didn't need him he wouldn't be in. He spreads the defense, and that is what this team needs. There is no reason to debate who's better, Norvell or Kispert, They are both great. The future is bright. It's ok to have two great shooters on one team.

thespywhozaggedme
12-12-2017, 07:24 AM
nova controlled that game throughout...wasn't a back and forth game like florida...if your team has a goal of going deep in march and gets dominated in a game, how was that game not humble pie???

as good as norvell was on offense in msg after the game was decided, he missed two wide open threes where the zags ran their o to perfection in the first half which could have kept the game within a more reasonable distance.

First of all, the term "humble pie" presupposes that one of the parties is arrogant in a certain way, thus they were "humbled". In no way, shape or form is our team arrogant. They simply lost to a better team that night, no need for hyperbolic superlatives.

Zagceo
12-12-2017, 07:54 AM
First of all, the term "humble pie" presupposes that one of the parties is arrogant in a certain way, thus they were "humbled". In no way, shape or form is our team arrogant. They simply lost to a better team that night, no need for hyperbolic superlatives.

says the king of em....:-d

Zagricultural
12-12-2017, 07:59 AM
He needs to cut down on the early clock threes and increase his drives. We're in real need of slashing.

thespywhozaggedme
12-12-2017, 08:11 AM
says the king of em....:-d

That's why I know it so well. :)

Birddog
12-12-2017, 08:19 AM
He needs to cut down on the early clock threes and increase his drives. We're in real need of slashing.

I tend to agree with this but IIRC he has been wide open on many of those early in the clock attempts, they haven't exactly been forced. I'm sure Mark and Tommy are in his ear if they want a different outcome. I'd feel better if he was a little slower to shoot, but hell if he had been making those shots we would be ecstatic.

amaronizag
12-12-2017, 08:37 AM
If there is one person under the basketball to rebound, and nobody open with a better shot, my general rule was not to pass but to shoot if you're open. There is never a guarantee that a better shot is coming if you wait and pass the ball around in search of it. The team COULD be rewarded with a better shot, but with every pass there is also the chance of a turn-over or empty possession from a shot clock violation. The whole idea of running an offense is to get a man open for a shot. Why run the offense when you're open??? When I get out of my car and find a $5 bill on the sidewalk, I pick it up and put it in my pocket. I don't pass it up in hopes that there may be a $10 bill a little further down the street. Take the money!!!!! Keep shooting Mr Norvell. You have the green light for a reason. Early in the clock = late in the clock. Shoot to win. Never quit shooting and never play "not to lose." It's OK to hold the ball and run out the clock at the VERY end of a game to prevent the other team from getting possessions, but that's no strategy for the last 5 minutes of a game, let alone for the entire game.

Hoopaholic
12-12-2017, 09:27 AM
If there is one person under the basketball to rebound, and nobody open with a better shot, my general rule was not to pass but to shoot if you're open. There is never a guarantee that a better shot is coming if you wait and pass the ball around in search of it. The team COULD be rewarded with a better shot, but with every pass there is also the chance of a turn-over or empty possession from a shot clock violation. The whole idea of running an offense is to get a man open for a shot. Why run the offense when you're open??? When I get out of my car and find a $5 bill on the sidewalk, I pick it up and put it in my pocket. I don't pass it up in hopes that there may be a $10 bill a little further down the street. Take the money!!!!! Keep shooting Mr Norvell. You have the green light for a reason. Early in the clock = late in the clock. Shoot to win. Never quit shooting and never play "not to lose." It's OK to hold the ball and run out the clock at the VERY end of a game to prevent the other team from getting possessions, but that's no strategy for the last 5 minutes of a game, let alone for the entire game.

agree with one caveat........one person under for rebound, nobody open with a better shot AND the shot is within your skill set/team role then take the shot

BULLDOG#1
12-12-2017, 09:38 AM
If there is one person under the basketball to rebound, and nobody open with a better shot, my general rule was not to pass but to shoot if you're open. There is never a guarantee that a better shot is coming if you wait and pass the ball around in search of it. The team COULD be rewarded with a better shot, but with every pass there is also the chance of a turn-over or empty possession from a shot clock violation. The whole idea of running an offense is to get a man open for a shot. Why run the offense when you're open??? When I get out of my car and find a $5 bill on the sidewalk, I pick it up and put it in my pocket. I don't pass it up in hopes that there may be a $10 bill a little further down the street. Take the money!!!!! Keep shooting Mr Norvell. You have the green light for a reason. Early in the clock = late in the clock. Shoot to win. Never quit shooting and never play "not to lose." It's OK to hold the ball and run out the clock at the VERY end of a game to prevent the other team from getting possessions, but that's no strategy for the last 5 minutes of a game, let alone for the entire game.

To make this argument, you'd have to define what an 'open shot' is ... Norvell may think it's an 'open shot' when he's fading way from 25 feet and he's got a big under the bucket who is one pass away from an easy dunk. If you can only pick one and there's a $10 bill right in front of the $5, then you'd pick up the $10.

Novell has a scorers mentality, and that's a good thing. That mentality, though, can lead to bad shot selection. Few green-lighting him to this extent is very telling, so I agree with most that Norvell will be an incredible scorer for the zags during his time at GU. A chucker's mentality can cost a team in a lot of ways, and Few and staff know this, so don't be surprised if Norvell gets yanked for bad shots until he finds the right balance.

It's sure a luxury to have both Norvell and Kispert on the roster. My opinion is that Kispert is a much safer bet than Norvell right now, regardless of how great Norvell has looked. Can't wait to see how these two develop - the two of them raining threes will be a sight to see for a few years.

mgadfly
12-12-2017, 10:07 AM
If there is one person under the basketball to rebound, and nobody open with a better shot, my general rule was not to pass but to shoot if you're open. There is never a guarantee that a better shot is coming if you wait and pass the ball around in search of it. The team COULD be rewarded with a better shot, but with every pass there is also the chance of a turn-over or empty possession from a shot clock violation. The whole idea of running an offense is to get a man open for a shot. Why run the offense when you're open??? When I get out of my car and find a $5 bill on the sidewalk, I pick it up and put it in my pocket. I don't pass it up in hopes that there may be a $10 bill a little further down the street. Take the money!!!!! Keep shooting Mr Norvell. You have the green light for a reason. Early in the clock = late in the clock. Shoot to win. Never quit shooting and never play "not to lose." It's OK to hold the ball and run out the clock at the VERY end of a game to prevent the other team from getting possessions, but that's no strategy for the last 5 minutes of a game, let alone for the entire game.

I think Norvell should keep shooting, but there are other reasons to run an offense than to get a good shot. With every pass and dribble you also create the possibility of something bad for the defense. Fouls for example. Teams that run offense rather than chuck it up at the first opportunity draws more fouls. Against a zone (like we faced with the UW), forcing the other team's defense to rotate against (reversal) passes wears them down, gets them out of position, and often times leads to fouls. Against some teams, running offense limits the number of possessions in a game (I'm not sure who GU should be trying to limit possessions with as I think they can stand toe to toe with almost any team even in an uptempo game, but ...). I'm just saying that the option isn't A) Take the first open shot, or B) stand there running clock doing nothing. There are teams that are very successful in forcing teams to defend 20 to 25 seconds of a shot clock, rather than getting in a track meet with their opponent. This may lead to some possessions where they pass up a good look only to have a turnover or get a worse look later, but it also may end up leading to the other team's star player in foul trouble, or someone getting a better look later in the clock after a tired defense breaks down.

I think the Zags are very balanced with their approach. They take the primary and secondary break and look for a good shot (initial drive to the rim, post-up or open three), then settle into their offense looking for a good shot in the low post (to set up different action as the game goes on). If Norvell takes a good shot within the primary and secondary break system, I think he gets the okay from the coaches. If he jacks up too many shots when Few thinks we should get into our offense and get Williams or a post involved, he'd better make them.

Zagricultural
12-12-2017, 11:22 AM
I tend to agree with this but IIRC he has been wide open on many of those early in the clock attempts, they haven't exactly been forced. I'm sure Mark and Tommy are in his ear if they want a different outcome. I'd feel better if he was a little slower to shoot, but hell if he had been making those shots we would be ecstatic.

True, but he's not making them. I'd like to see those threes going to Perkins, Tillie, Kispert, etc...

TexasZagFan
12-12-2017, 11:30 AM
True, but he's not making them. I'd like to see those threes going to Perkins, Tillie, Kispert, etc...

As long as those shots are taken within the flow of the game, I'm certain Zach has the green light. Our offensive philosophy is to push the tempo, increase the # of possessions in a game. That implies that shots early in the shot clock are not usually discouraged.