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raise the zag
12-09-2017, 07:00 AM
to be able to ball for 5 or 6 mins per game.

Perkins played all 40 mins twice this season, 38/40 vs Nova. As a result, he has been useless, a liability, the final 5 or 6 mins of games this season.

Turnover city down the stretch, clanking shots (1-10 last 10 attempts), and it appears fatigue related. Perkins uses a ton of dribble fakes, little bursts, hunting his shot all game off the ball, and has been tired late in 2nd half of games.

We need a fresh(er) Josh to 'close out' games for us this year.

Moving Silas to the point takes away a weapon at SG for too long, plus forces him to log serious mins as well, sacrifice defense, rebounds, etc. Kinda takes away his overall game when he fills in for Josh.

I realize Jesse hasn't been 100% healthy this season, yet heard he's been good to go for past couple weeks.

The kid can shoot, dribble, and sees the floor well. I think its in our best interest to ramp up his development.

Jesse can shoot off the dribble better than anyone we have had since Pangos. Has no equal this year either. Swishes everything, even heard he shoots a higher % from 25 ft, compared to 21 ft, yet Coaches aren't thrilled by those attempts.

Point is, we need a back-up PG. Honestly, 5 mpg would do it! Not just the final 45 seconds of games. Even if he turns it over, dribbles to nowhere, gets trapped, its helluva lot better than Perkins committing 3 TO's IN A ROW at the end of games. As he did twice already this season. You can see it in Josh's expression. We are making him work harder than NWG last season, since Josh is kinda playing BOTH PG and SG, as he hunts his shot, which takes a ton of work.

I sincerely believe this team needs Wade and expected to use him this season prior to shoulder instability, and a series of tough games.

Its time to learn by fire, because Josh needs a rest, we need another sniper on the court, almost a change of pace. Wade slows it down, moves the ball from side to side, and looks to shoot. Perfect.

Its time.

Without him come Tournament play, this team cannot play Perkins 39 mins every other day. He has no legs, and mental lapses at the end, just looks tired/worn out already.

Just think how fresh faced and "perky" Perkins was the first few games before playing every minute (don't quote Incarnate Word)?

Vanzagger
12-09-2017, 07:39 AM
NWG was asked by a local reporter... what is it about this team

We show up everyday to practice looking for new ways to improve on defense

Zag Mentality

TexasZagFan
12-09-2017, 07:56 AM
Let Jesse get healthy. Hopefully, Corey's ready to go soon.

J3 and Killian have got to stop the needless fouls, too.

bartruff1
12-09-2017, 08:25 AM
The team needs a healthy Kispert....if he returns. I suspect Few will go back to his original rotation and that will allow Perkins to get some rest..... Wade will get opportunities in the WCC.....

TexasZagFan
12-09-2017, 08:30 AM
The team needs a healthy Kispert....if he returns. I suspect Few will go back to his original rotation and that will allow Perkins to get some rest..... Wade will get opportunities in the WCC.....

Wade will get many, many opportunities in the WCC. He'll be ready come March.

FlyZag
12-09-2017, 08:36 AM
The problem I see is Jesse's defense. No question he's an asset on Offense... But defensively he's a liability compared to JP. With Few trending toward emphasizing defense over offense... (Kispert starting over ZN) I don't think we'll see much of Jesse this year until his defense improves. Just my opinion from my comfy chair.

TexasZagFan
12-09-2017, 08:54 AM
The problem I see is Jesse's defense. No question he's an asset on Offense... But defensively he's a liability compared to JP. With Few trending toward emphasizing defense over offense... (Kispert starting over ZN) I don't think we'll see much of Jesse this year until his defense improves. Just my opinion from my comfy chair.

I could see Jesse on the court with Jacob and Killian in the paint, playing zone. Jacob's been coming around, and Killian plays good help defense. Not saying they protect the rim like last year, but it's a good tandem, and the two seem to work well together.

jazzdelmar
12-09-2017, 08:56 AM
Wouldnt you think Few would have him in there if he was ready to play at this level? I mean top tier D1. Yes he will log time agst the Pacifics, signifying nothing.

TexasZagFan
12-09-2017, 09:14 AM
Wouldn’t you think Few would have him in there if he was ready to play at this level? I mean top tier D1. Yes he will log time agst the Pacifics, signifying nothing.

You're probably right. Being on a mission for two years undoubtedly hindered his development. He just needs to progress to the point where Few can trust him as a backup PG for 6-8 minutes a game.

DixieZag
12-09-2017, 09:26 AM
I thought the doctors and PTs here said that his injury is of the type that only shutting him down for a long time (like, a year) would have any hope in improving it, and wouldn't even guarantee improving it?

Great thread with an important point.

hockeyzag
12-09-2017, 04:27 PM
Wade just hasn't impressed me while he's been out there this year. Hopefully it's injury related. But he just doesn't look like anything other than a liability.

JPtheBeasta
12-09-2017, 05:26 PM
Maybe Wade should start at center.

JPtheBeasta
12-09-2017, 05:31 PM
Wade just hasn't impressed me while he's been out there this year. Hopefully it's injury related. But he just doesn't look like anything other than a liability.

So far he’s not the Pangosian or Ravioesque knock-down shooter I expected him to be. Maybe it’s nerves, the shoulder injury or small sample size, but at this snapshot in time he’s looking like a guy that will find it hard to crack the lineup in a meaningful way.

Malastein
12-09-2017, 06:13 PM
Right now he needs to ride the bench, but it’d be great to see him progress into a regular contributor by year’s end.

jazzdelmar
12-09-2017, 06:25 PM
I haven’t seen anything to lead me to believe he’s a top tier D1 prospect.

cggonzaga
12-09-2017, 06:52 PM
I haven’t seen anything to lead me to believe he’s a top tier D1 prospect.

Agreed unfortunately.

TexasZagFan
12-09-2017, 07:04 PM
I haven’t seen anything to lead me to believe he’s a top tier D1 prospect.

IMHO, he looks exactly like a top tier college player that hasn't played competitive basketball in two years.

raise the zag
12-09-2017, 07:17 PM
Speaking of Wade, a curious inquiry...

Can Jesse play on Sundays given his affiliation? I'm genuinely wondering if he'll even be suited up tomorrow on this rare Sunday game.

Interesting.

Also, the OP is not saying Jesse is our cure-all, simply pointing out we desperately need a back-up PG.

And he's the only option at the moment...

john montana
12-09-2017, 07:20 PM
I haven’t seen anything to lead me to believe he’s a top tier D1 prospect.

This.

Club Prez
12-09-2017, 07:24 PM
So far he’s not the Pangosian or Ravioesque knock-down shooter I expected him to be. Maybe it’s nerves, the shoulder injury or small sample size, but at this snapshot in time he’s looking like a guy that will find it hard to crack the lineup in a meaningful way.

+1

sittingon50
12-09-2017, 07:28 PM
40 minutes in mostly garbage time?

If you've ever played rat ball @ noon you know that the better players you play with & against raises your level and vice versa.

How 'bout giving the kid a bit more of an audition?

raise the zag
12-09-2017, 07:33 PM
If not Jesse, then who?

Exactly.

It's not about Jesse, it's the fact there is no one else to fill the void as a back up to Perk.

Looks like Josh is already burning out a bit and/or gassed by game's end.

Need another legitimate option, even for a handful of mins.

I realize Ayayi is only 17, and thin as a rail, but by all reports he is already one of the best defensive players on the team. He lacks strength and physical maturity, yet wonder if he could habe found a role for a few mins a game? As a defensive guy and using his quickness in the open floor while Josh gets a blow.

Probably not worth it in the grand scheme of things, but Wade didn't RS for a reason. Just saying he need to develop rapidly for this team to take a step.

bartruff1
12-09-2017, 07:48 PM
There are options.....Melson can play point.....so can Norvell....the really interesting idea that DD keeps saying..... or implying... is that Kispert can play the point...now that would be something...GTF out of the way !!!

In any case I don't see anyone playing more than 35 minutes once league starts...

Mark always has the team ready for the first game in the NCAA....they have a week or so between the WCC and the NCAA.

hooter73
12-09-2017, 08:57 PM
Without another point guard we are dead in the water.

Now I have been an unabashed wade fan since the beginning and yeah, I still believe. The kid is a champion. But we’ve seen this before, zero playing time by now means zero playing time to come. Maybe he’s hurt, maybe its the atmosphere, maybe it’s something else entirely that we’ll never hear about, but whether he’s capable of being the next pangos or ravio, right now the cards are not lining up that way. It’s a shame for him and for gu right now.

Goshzagit
12-09-2017, 09:30 PM
Without another point guard we are dead in the water.

Now I have been an unabashed wade fan since the beginning and yeah, I still believe. The kid is a champion. But we’ve seen this before, zero playing time by now means zero playing time to come. Maybe he’s hurt, maybe its the atmosphere, maybe it’s something else entirely that we’ll never hear about, but whether he’s capable of being the next pangos or ravio, right now the cards are not lining up that way. It’s a shame for him and for gu right now.

I have a feeling Wade will come around...just a hunch. (assuming shoulder stays in place)

But we have to consider, Jesse is much shorter than Raivio, and even a full inch...or two...compared to even Pangos.

A picture of these two together when Wade was a Senior in HS and definitely shorter than Pangos, and Raivio always had sneaky height, kinda like Silas Melson. Both a legit 6'3". I always though Derek was closer to 6'0", until I stood next to him in person. Nope, well over 6' when he stood up straight. He and Melson hunch on the court.

Honestly, Wade has terrific posture, yet still closer to 5'11" to 6'0". He will find his niche, but may take time. Too good of shooter to be held down for long, not to mention he rarely turns the ball over. Just makes the right play. Its his health holding him back the most.

Jesse is also still rusty. He admitted he rarely, if ever, played bball in France. He would have had more opportunities if he stayed in the States, as organized bball for missionaries is common.

In a recent article, Jesse said he couldn't hit a shot when he first returned home. It took him awhile. He has just recently regained his form again following shoulder numbness, soreness. He was a 45% 3pt shooter in HS, with hundreds of attempts and the entire team guarding him.

Wade may never be a starter at GU, but if he sticks around, he'll rec plenty of PT. Smart, hard worker, can stroke it from DEEP, and excellent with the ball. A really good back-up PG/QB to keep around.

Sometimes the back-up PG/QB is one of the most coveted players on and off the court/field...you get the idea.

We'll see more of him come WCC time.

MDABE80
12-09-2017, 09:41 PM
Jesse's among the most talented kids on the team. He's a full 6 2, quick off the dribble and likely our best shooter when he can raise his arm so he can shoot. In HS , he was a killer LD and mid range shooter.

I don't know about this criticism since he's not played enough to make a judgement.
Complicating this situation is the 2 years away from the game.

I do know that in his last two years in the highest classed league in Utah, he looked as good as anyone we've recruited for the PG spot. His speed will pick up with experience. I' just not sure if he'll get playing time this year. I think he's played in 4 regular games. I do think that if Few isn't going to use him, he should be redshirted.
Potential to be a great player. Luck might not be with him........sad to say.

I will say this, when it comes to having a PG who knows how to run an offense, we need one.

zagdontzig
12-10-2017, 07:16 AM
IMHO, he looks exactly like a top tier college player that hasn't played competitive basketball in two years.

+1

bartruff1
12-10-2017, 07:33 AM
That doesn't appear to bother the returnees at BYU....as for Sunday play, that is left up to the individual...

minutes are hard to earn and it may be even harder next year....if he earns them he will play...it is no more complicated than that...the best players play..

Zagricultural
12-10-2017, 08:01 AM
Agree that we need him to be playing more to reach our potential this year

MileHigh
12-10-2017, 08:41 AM
Jesse's among the most talented kids on the team. He's a full 6 2, quick off the dribble and likely our best shooter when he can raise his arm so he can shoot. In HS , he was a killer LD and mid range shooter.

I don't know about this criticism since he's not played enough to make a judgement.
Complicating this situation is the 2 years away from the game.

I do know that in his last two years in the highest classed league in Utah, he looked as good as anyone we've recruited for the PG spot. His speed will pick up with experience. I' just not sure if he'll get playing time this year. I think he's played in 4 regular games. I do think that if Few isn't going to use him, he should be redshirted.
Potential to be a great player. Luck might not be with him........sad to say.

I will say this, when it comes to having a PG who knows how to run an offense, we need one.

I don't even know where to begin replying to this post. I guess I will start by saying, if you are nothing else, you are relentless in your "Perkins isnt capable of running a team" nonsense (as if you have any idea what "running a team" even consists of) but that is you opinion and god knows that not me, or anyone else, is going to change it. 15 pts a game, 4.5 assists per game, and the Zags have one of the most potent offenses in the country...with JP playing pg for almost the entire game, every game......the numbers speak for themselves

Next, saying that a freshman, who has yet to play any meaningful minutes, is a better shooter than JP (or Kispert for that matter) is pretty ridiculous, especially since you seem to base your opinion on what the kid did playing HS ball in Utah, of all places. Do you realize that JP is among the national leaders in both 3 pointers made and 3pt %. I would say that until another player puts up those type of stats facing live bullets, JP gets the nod for best shooter.

Lastly, Few cant simply "decide to redshirt" Wade. If you play one minute of one game you are ineligible to redshirt unless you have a season ending injury and you have played in less than 25% of the contests. Wade is healthy enough to play significant minutes, and has been for the majority of the season. Few has chosen not to play him for whatever reason. I know you are on record as saying Wade is the best pg on the roster, but it appears Few doesn't share your opinion. And please do not construe my comments as a criticism of Wade as I have not seen enough of the kid to form an opinion, and even if I did I wouldn't go on a forum such as this and attack him.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 08:58 AM
Jesse's among the most talented kids on the team. He's a full 6 2, quick off the dribble and likely our best shooter when he can raise his arm so he can shoot. In HS , he was a killer LD and mid range shooter.

I don't know about this criticism since he's not played enough to make a judgement.
Complicating this situation is the 2 years away from the game.

I do know that in his last two years in the highest classed league in Utah, he looked as good as anyone we've recruited for the PG spot. His speed will pick up with experience. I' just not sure if he'll get playing time this year. I think he's played in 4 regular games. I do think that if Few isn't going to use him, he should be redshirted.
Potential to be a great player. Luck might not be with him........sad to say.

I will say this, when it comes to having a PG who knows how to run an offense, we need one.

Let's face it, Abe. Do we really have "true" anything on this team?

Josh is our PG, who's too good a shooter to not look for his shot.
Silas is our 2, but his strength is as a defender, he just does many things well.
Our 3 is a committee: Kispert, Rui, Zach.
Tillie is our 4, but he's a bit too slender for a PF, and his motor tends to idle at times.
J3 is our 5, but he was ideally slotted as our 4 last year.

What we do have is a team of great athletes being molded into potentially a great team. I'm just trying to enjoy the ride, and trust the staff to get the parts to mesh. As you said earlier, we're 1/4 into the season. Wins at UW and SDSU will help to calm the naysayers out there.

Not addressed to you, but Few's goals have not changed over the years: win the WCC first, then worry about dancing.

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 09:58 AM
Let's face it, Abe. Do we really have "true" anything on this team?

Josh is our PG, who's too good a shooter to not look for his shot.
Silas is our 2, but his strength is as a defender, he just does many things well.
Our 3 is a committee: Kispert, Rui, Zach.
Tillie is our 4, but he's a bit too slender for a PF, and his motor tends to idle at times.
J3 is our 5, but he was ideally slotted as our 4 last year.

What we do have is a team of great athletes being molded into potentially a great team. I'm just trying to enjoy the ride, and trust the staff to get the parts to mesh. As you said earlier, we're 1/4 into the season. Wins at UW and SDSU will help to calm the naysayers out there.

Not addressed to you, but Few's goals have not changed over the years: win the WCC first, then worry about dancing.

I know Few is a master at managing expectations. But dont you think its a little bit incongruous that a year after blowing all the way to the NC game his top priority this year is winning the WCC? Particularly with the dreck that comprises two thirds of the WCC? Isnt it time to be a wee more aspirational? Id hope that his true goals are a lot more robust than that. While were at it, I disagree with the description a team of great athletes. We have 3 maybe 4, and 2 are first year players.

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 09:58 AM
I don't even know where to begin replying to this post. I guess I will start by saying, if you are nothing else, you are relentless in your "Perkins isnt capable of running a team" nonsense (as if you have any idea what "running a team" even consists of) but that is you opinion and god knows that not me, or anyone else, is going to change it. 15 pts a game, 4.5 assists per game, and the Zags have one of the most potent offenses in the country...with JP playing pg for almost the entire game, every game......the numbers speak for themselves

Next, saying that a freshman, who has yet to play any meaningful minutes, is a better shooter than JP (or Kispert for that matter) is pretty ridiculous, especially since you seem to base your opinion on what the kid did playing HS ball in Utah, of all places. Do you realize that JP is among the national leaders in both 3 pointers made and 3pt %. I would say that until another player puts up those type of stats facing live bullets, JP gets the nod for best shooter.

Lastly, Few cant simply "decide to redshirt" Wade. If you play one minute of one game you are ineligible to redshirt unless you have a season ending injury and you have played in less than 25% of the contests. Wade is healthy enough to play significant minutes, and has been for the majority of the season. Few has chosen not to play him for whatever reason. I know you are on record as saying Wade is the best pg on the roster, but it appears Few doesn't share your opinion. And please do not construe my comments as a criticism of Wade as I have not seen enough of the kid to form an opinion, and even if I did I wouldn't go on a forum such as this and attack him.

Stay off the drugs . As it turns out, we really don't have a PG this year. It's just a label. Josh is a shooter and isn't running the team. We have 5 guys who work hard together. A few good subs who do the same thing. PLEASE see the last two games against good competition. Then come back and sing the praises. It's not really worth my time to argue about Josh. He's had plenty of time. As it sits, he's just one guy who shoots decently and really nothing else.

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 10:02 AM
Let's face it, Abe. Do we really have "true" anything on this team?

Josh is our PG, who's too good a shooter to not look for his shot.
Silas is our 2, but his strength is as a defender, he just does many things well.
Our 3 is a committee: Kispert, Rui, Zach.
Tillie is our 4, but he's a bit too slender for a PF, and his motor tends to idle at times.
J3 is our 5, but he was ideally slotted as our 4 last year.

What we do have is a team of great athletes being molded into potentially a great team. I'm just trying to enjoy the ride, and trust the staff to get the parts to mesh. As you said earlier, we're 1/4 into the season. Wins at UW and SDSU will help to calm the naysayers out there.

Not addressed to you, but Few's goals have not changed over the years: win the WCC first, then worry about dancing.

Tex, I don't know. As the season rolls on, I'm thinking the PG slot is in name only. We have 5 guys who are our team. They seem to work well together.and win most games. All one has to do is look at the Nova and Creighton games to understand......I like this team of guys. it's a non traditional situation out front. If Few can mold this group into a unit, so be it. I do think you make good points. Off to get the Christmas tree......:) Best time of the year (the cold part anyway).

cjm720
12-10-2017, 10:09 AM
I like the OP. Wade has got a long way to go tho, but Josh needs some help. I hope Wade can prove himself during WCC play.

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 10:12 AM
Stay off the drugs . As it turns out, we really don't have a PG this year. It's just a label. Josh is a shooter and isn't running the team. We have 5 guys who work hard together. A few good subs who do the same thing. PLEASE see the last two games against good competition. Then come back and sing the praises. It's not really worth my time to argue about Josh. He's had plenty of time. As it sits, he's just one guy who shoots decently and really nothing else.

Josh is an above average two guard and an average point guard. Far from elite. Anyone who’s had any hoops experience and is unbiased knows this. A terrific young man, for sure.

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 10:12 AM
Stay off the drugs . As it turns out, we really don't have a PG this year. It's just a label. Josh is a shooter and isn't running the team. We have 5 guys who work hard together. A few good subs who do the same thing. PLEASE see the last two games against good competition. Then come back and sing the praises. It's not really worth my time to argue about Josh. He's had plenty of time. As it sits, he's just one guy who shoots decently and really nothing else.

Guess it’s true...you just can’t fix stupid.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-10-2017, 10:26 AM
Stay off the drugs . As it turns out, we really don't have a PG this year. It's just a label. Josh is a shooter and isn't running the team. We have 5 guys who work hard together. A few good subs who do the same thing. PLEASE see the last two games against good competition. Then come back and sing the praises. It's not really worth my time to argue about Josh. He's had plenty of time. As it sits, he's just one guy who shoots decently and really nothing else.

Mods? Hello, a little consistency please...here we have one poster accusing another of being on drugs and he’s not put on lockdown with offending post deleted? Entire threads have been locked for far less. MDAbe is out of line w this post, a little moderating is in order here.

TheZagster
12-10-2017, 10:26 AM
I might be a little biased because I am from Utah and know the Wade‘s at least from a distance. We watched Jesse in high school, and we followed his mission in France. Mark this post down, because this is absolutely going to happen. Jesse Wade is a winner, plain and simple a winner. Talking with his dad, the four weeks of practice he missed leading up to the first game killed his spot in the initial rotation, but make no mistake he was there. Not having full confidence in the health of his shoulder with heavy contact, and the need to win some big games at the start of the year, has kept him out of serious minutes thus far but they are starting to work him in with the ones again in practice so it is just a matter of time before he is contributing. Those of you who are saying he is 510 or 511 are on a heavy dose of weed, he is all of 6’1” and closer to 6’2”. He will prove to be the best shooter on this team this year, and one of, if not the best shooters Gonzaga ever has, mark that down. He will figure out a way to contribute significantly to the success of this team. For the first seven games of the year, He has been playing scout team where they have had him emulate the other team’s best player to help the ones prepare for games, by several accounts he absolutely thrashes our starters in practice. He has been able to get just about any shot he wants against Silas and Josh and he has been playing scout teams best player to help the ones prepare for games, by several accounts he absolutely thrashes our starters in practice. He has been able to get just about any shot he wants against Silas and Josh and Zach and Corey. If he had the same greenlight that Zach has had in several of his games where his first half is atrocious and his second half is great, Jesse would have much more consistent results. He will prove to be one of our best players Gonzaga ever has. You heard it from me and MD first.

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 10:35 AM
Mods? Hello, a little consistency please...here we have one poster accusing another of being on drugs and he’s not put on lockdown with offending post deleted? Entire threads have been locked for far less. MDAbe is out of line w this post, a little moderating is in order here.

No when a guy makes a crazy post, it's not uncommon to tell em to put the pipe down or stay off the drugs. lol It's given in this spirit only. Flex......lighten up. lol.Not calling him a drug addict or anything skin to it.
We need to all lighten up.

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 10:38 AM
I might be a little biased because I am from Utah and know the Wade‘s at least from a distance. We watched Jesse in high school, and we followed his mission in France. Mark this post down, because this is absolutely going to happen. Jesse Wade is a winner, plain and simple a winner. Talking with his dad, the four weeks of practice he missed leading up to the first game killed his spot in the initial rotation, but make no mistake he was there. Not having full confidence in the health of his shoulder with heavy contact, and the need to win some big games at the start of the year, has kept him out of serious minutes thus far but they are starting to work him in with the ones again in practice so it is just a matter of time before he is contributing. Those of you who are saying he is 510 or 511 are on a heavy dose of weed, he is all of 6’1” and closer to 6’2”. He will prove to be the best shooter on this team this year, and one of, if not the best shooters Gonzaga ever has, mark that down. He will figure out a way to contribute significantly to the success of this team. For the first seven games of the year, He has been playing scout team where they have had him emulate the other team’s best player to help the ones prepare for games, by several accounts he absolutely thrashes our starters in practice. He has been able to get just about any shot he wants against Silas and Josh and he has been playing scout teams best player to help the ones prepare for games, by several accounts he absolutely thrashes our starters in practice. He has been able to get just about any shot he wants against Silas and Josh and Zach and Corey. If he had the same greenlight that Zach has had in several of his games where his first half is atrocious and his second half is great, Jesse would have much more consistent results. He will prove to be one of our best players Gonzaga ever has. You heard it from me and MD first.

I happen to agree with all of this. Jesse can really play. Setbacks have happened. But, don't lose faith in him, he'll be a good player for us.

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 11:36 AM
Guess it’s true...you just can’t fix stupid.
Santangelo, Dickau, Stepp, Raivio, Pangos, Nigel, (Jesus I'd even take Pargo!) I guess you can't when it comes to what's expected of a PG. I keep thinking of those guys.....you should too. Those guys could run a team from the PG slot in addition to putting up points and making catchable passes. Might be an archaic concept

Look, we have what we have. I'm ok with it. Few's got a 7-8 man rotation wherein the 5 guys on the floor just go at it. We're no Villanova but we'll win this year. Speaking of which , in a 4 guard system Nova uses half the game, who's the PG? Point being, in some systems you don't need a PG to win games.....kinda like we're seeing this year. PG is just a label, a name....

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 11:42 AM
Santangelo, Dickau, Stepp, Raivio, Pangos, Nigel, (Jesus I'd even take Pargo!) I guess you can't when it comes to what's expected of a PG. I keep thinking of those guys.....you should too. Those guys could run a team from the PG slot in addition to putting up points and making catchable passes. Might be an archaic concept

Look, we have what we have. I'm ok with it. Few's got a 7-8 man rotation wherein the 5 guys on the floor just go at it. We're no Villanova but we'll win this year. Speaking of which , in a 4 guard system Nova uses half the game, who's the PG? Point being, in some systems you don't need a PG to win games.....kinda like we're seeing this year. PG is just a label, a name....

Pargo? ��

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 12:19 PM
Well yeah. If you had to��

raise the zag
12-10-2017, 12:27 PM
Fwiw, heard the Coaches are nervous to allow him to take on ball screens.

In practice, his shoulder often moved upon absorbing screens on defense.

It's a combo of health, rust, & youth.

seacatfan
12-10-2017, 12:48 PM
Yawn. Perkins is going to end up in the top 10 all time in a handful of statistical categories at GU, probably even top 5, but some posters will continue to say the same thing about him regardless of what he does on the court.

MileHigh
12-10-2017, 12:55 PM
Josh is an above average two guard and an average point guard. Far from elite. Anyone whos had any hoops experience and is unbiased knows this. A terrific young man, for sure.

Jazz--While I disagree some with your opinion, I can see where you might feel this way based on some of the things Josh has done (and not done) during his time at Gonzaga. However, it is one thing to say that he is an average (or even below average) pg, but to say he "isn't a pg " and is "incapable of running the offense" is just over the top negative hyperbole from a certain poster (Abe) that hasn't liked the way JP carries himself from day one.

MileHigh
12-10-2017, 01:00 PM
Stay off the drugs . As it turns out, we really don't have a PG this year. It's just a label. Josh is a shooter and isn't running the team. We have 5 guys who work hard together. A few good subs who do the same thing. PLEASE see the last two games against good competition. Then come back and sing the praises. It's not really worth my time to argue about Josh. He's had plenty of time. As it sits, he's just one guy who shoots decently and really nothing else.

Haha....Your dislike of Josh wont even allow you to say he is a great shooter. Just "decent" huh?....lol

jazzdelmar
12-10-2017, 01:02 PM
Jazz--While I disagree some with your opinion, I can see where you might feel this way based on some of the things Josh has done (and not done) during his time at Gonzaga. However, it is one thing to say that he is an average (or even below average) pg, but to say he "isn't a pg " and is "incapable of running the offense" is just over the top negative hyperbole from a certain poster (Abe) that hasn't liked the way JP carries himself from day one.

I’d compare him with Booth of Villanova.

MileHigh
12-10-2017, 01:26 PM
Getting back to the point made by the original poster, for sure Few needs to find a way to give Josh a rest, especially since he is the primary ball handler and has to initiate the offense every possession when he is in. 35+ minutes a game takes its toll over the course of a long season.

Grand Valley Zag
12-10-2017, 01:33 PM
Jesse's among the most talented kids on the team. He's a full 6 2, quick off the dribble and likely our best shooter when he can raise his arm so he can shoot. In HS , he was a killer LD and mid range shooter.

I don't know about this criticism since he's not played enough to make a judgement.
Complicating this situation is the 2 years away from the game.

I do know that in his last two years in the highest classed league in Utah, he looked as good as anyone we've recruited for the PG spot. His speed will pick up with experience. I' just not sure if he'll get playing time this year. I think he's played in 4 regular games. I do think that if Few isn't going to use him, he should be redshirted.
Potential to be a great player. Luck might not be with him........sad to say.

I will say this, when it comes to having a PG who knows how to run an offense, we need one.


Please quit indirectly slamming our guy.

bartruff1
12-10-2017, 01:36 PM
I happen to agree with all of this. Jesse can really play. Setbacks have happened. But, don't lose faith in him, he'll be a good player for us.

Yes.... but is he better than Curry ?

sittingon50
12-10-2017, 02:19 PM
Yes.... but is he better than Curry ?

I'll let you know once my lithium kicks in.

DixieZag
12-10-2017, 03:24 PM
Stay off the drugs . As it turns out, we really don't have a PG this year. It's just a label. Josh is a shooter and isn't running the team. We have 5 guys who work hard together. A few good subs who do the same thing. PLEASE see the last two games against good competition. Then come back and sing the praises. It's not really worth my time to argue about Josh. He's had plenty of time. As it sits, he's just one guy who shoots decently and really nothing else.

Is that necessary?

And, I don't know all that much about how to define a PG but all I know is that up to and through the Florida game, every time Perkins went out of the game our offense stalled so noticeably that even I understood the reason.

The OP premise is that we're grinding him to dust right off the top, and that abides what the eyes see on the court, too. Some of this is from just a general malaise from the entire team at MSG, but it's pinned on Josh bc everything is pinned on Josh by some.

He's definitely expected to be a leader as an upperclassmen front court man. And he definitely was running one high potent offense against a tough Florida team. So, to the extent there's any issue personal to Josh, getting the guy a blow 2x a half seems necessary.

I recall even St. Pangos pretty well falling all over himself in the lane at the end of games against the top 15 teams in the nation bc of an identical problem. Pangos was in the end of those highest of games (like a Florida, Nova, even Texas for all we know) a liability. It just was never held against him b/c how could one hold anything against the guy. (I don't).

Very weird how personal some of this seems.

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 04:44 PM
Is that necessary?

And, I don't know all that much about how to define a PG but all I know is that up to and through the Florida game, every time Perkins went out of the game our offense stalled so noticeably that even I understood the reason.

The OP premise is that we're grinding him to dust right off the top, and that abides what the eyes see on the court, too. Some of this is from just a general malaise from the entire team at MSG, but it's pinned on Josh bc everything is pinned on Josh by some.

He's definitely expected to be a leader as an upperclassmen front court man. And he definitely was running one high potent offense against a tough Florida team. So, to the extent there's any issue personal to Josh, getting the guy a blow 2x a half seems necessary.

I recall even St. Pangos pretty well falling all over himself in the lane at the end of games against the top 15 teams in the nation bc of an identical problem. Pangos was in the end of those highest of games (like a Florida, Nova, even Texas for all we know) a liability. It just was never held against him b/c how could one hold anything against the guy. (I don't).

Very weird how personal some of this seems.

I used to think it was something personal but not anymore. Now I think it’s just his ego to be right. Some people just can’t admit when they’re wrong.

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 05:06 PM
Please quit indirectly slamming our guy.


Slamming him? Who's slammed? I made Jesse nearly a candidate for Saint hood! lolol Welcome aboard on your first post by the way!!

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 05:08 PM
I used to think it was something personal but not anymore. Now I think it’s just his ego to be right. Some people just can’t admit when they’re wrong.

Watching the game? We have 5 guys going at it ..the last 10 minutes without a PG of notice. The whole team is doing well. Josh's got a nice game going....nothing against the kid.

Grand Valley Zag
12-10-2017, 05:09 PM
Slamming him? Who's slammed? I made Jesse nearly a candidate for Saint hood! lolol Welcome aboard on your first post by the way!!

Perkins. You're slamming Perkins. Obviously. I signed up just to ask you to stop.

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 05:19 PM
Watching the game? We have 5 guys going at it ..the last 10 minutes without a PG of notice. The whole team is doing well. Josh's got a nice game going....nothing against the kid.

I saw us struggle mightily offensively without him.

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 05:31 PM
Right! we only went 20 pts up without him. Fantasia much?? No matter. He's very good shooter. The group is functioning as a team...and doing well. As shown, they don't need a PG. It's a just a diffuse team effort with or without Josh......He's doing well for HIMSELF. With 14 min left we're up 19 pts. We win without a PG function and the team is in union. This is good. We'll win with some good players....... I don't get why you think we need a PG. It's just a name this year.

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 05:33 PM
Perkins. You're slamming Perkins. Obviously. I signed up just to ask you to stop.

Nobody's slamming him. When he does well, I give him praise. You wasted your sign up time.....good luck though

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 05:47 PM
Dang dude you have some serious issues.

DixieZag
12-10-2017, 06:07 PM
Dang dude you have some serious issues.

If the whole team is stroking and purring like a kitten, and Josh is playing great as PG, it's bc the whole team is playing great.

When the whole team is awful, it's because of lack of PG.

Just strange obsession.

Not allowed to be normal way above average Zag, with great, good, meh, and bad game mixed up. I don't recall a single Zag ever not named NWG who had a great game every time out. And holding it against a guy that he's not a Nigel is a pretty cruel thing IMO. Nigels come around once a generation, maybe decade.

hooter73
12-10-2017, 06:07 PM
Jesse is definitely playing different than the gunner he's used to being. he was in for the last two minutes vs UW and I saw him having to reign himself in. Made two great passes that wouldve been assists if the shots had have fallen. It really might just be a time and experience thing to get him in the groove. He CAN be the player we want and need though, just needs the chance to become then show it.

MileHigh
12-10-2017, 06:10 PM
Right! we only went 20 pts up without him. Fantasia much?? No matter. He's very good shooter. The group is functioning as a team...and doing well. As shown, they don't need a PG. It's a just a diffuse team effort with or without Josh......He's doing well for HIMSELF. With 14 min left we're up 19 pts. We win without a PG function and the team is in union. This is good. We'll win with some good players....... I don't get why you think we need a PG. It's just a name this year.

Lets see...pg is supposed to handle the ball (1 TO tonight) be able to pass (8 assists tonight) defend the other teams guards (4 steals tonight) and score the basketball (14 pts tonight)....just sayin....hahaha

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 06:11 PM
If the whole team is stroking and purring like a kitten, and Josh is playing great as PG, it's bc the whole team is playing great.

When the whole team is awful, it's because of lack of PG.

Just strange obsession.

Not allowed to be normal way above average Zag, with great, good, meh, and bad game mixed up. I don't recall a single Zag ever not named NWG who had a great game every time out. And holding it against a guy that he's not a Nigel is a pretty cruel thing IMO. Nigels come around once a generation, maybe decade.

Yeah it’s weird.

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 06:15 PM
Lets see...pg is supposed to handle the ball (1 TO tonight) be able to pass (8 assists tonight) defend the other teams guards (4 steals tonight) and score the basketball (14 pts tonight)....just sayin....hahaha

Not to mention the team shoots 2-8 and scores 10pts in the final 4:30 minutes to end the half without him.

TexasZagFan
12-10-2017, 06:21 PM
If the whole team is stroking and purring like a kitten, and Josh is playing great as PG, it's bc the whole team is playing great.

When the whole team is awful, it's because of lack of PG.

Just strange obsession.

Not allowed to be normal way above average Zag, with great, good, meh, and bad game mixed up. I don't recall a single Zag ever not named NWG who had a great game every time out. And holding it against a guy that he's not a Nigel is a pretty cruel thing IMO. Nigels come around once a generation, maybe decade.

I see both sides of the coin. You're both right. This team will go as far as Josh takes it, but he needs help. Can't play 38 minutes a game, teammates need to give him a better target to pass to.

Very few teams I've seen can put it all on one guy and be successful. Tim Hardaway did it at UTEP. You could say the same thing for Nigel and Ammo, though Morrison's defense was debatable. For this team to succeed, everyone needs to bring their A game every night. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

MileHigh
12-10-2017, 06:25 PM
Yeah it’s weird.

Its not weird, Its personal. When Josh was a RS freshman he started posting how he didnt like Josh's hair and how he thought Josh was too flashy, Josh was more concerned with appearance than substance, etc, etc. Said he wasn't a Gonzaga "type" of player (whatever that means). AT one point he even suggested that Zags would be better off if one of the walk ons started in front of him. Its all good though. i enjoy the banter!

seacatfan
12-10-2017, 06:26 PM
Like I said up thread, it really doesn't matter what Josh does, it will never be enough for some. But don't worry about it too much, same poster spent all of last year arguing that Lonzo Ball wasn't a PG either.

DixieZag
12-10-2017, 06:28 PM
I see both sides of the coin. You're both right. This team will go as far as Josh takes it, but he needs help. Can't play 38 minutes a game, teammates need to give him a better target to pass to.

Very few teams I've seen can put it all on one guy and be successful. Tim Hardaway did it at UTEP. You could say the same thing for Nigel and Ammo, though Morrison's defense was debatable. For this team to succeed, everyone needs to bring their A game every night. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

OH, absolutely he needs help. He will get ground down through the year playing 38-40 minutes, just like Pangos did. And it will only really factor in during those games we most dread it, against teams that can match us pound for pound. So it will be very frustrating unless we find some sort of solution. Norvelle's blossoming might well create a window.

JPtheBeasta
12-10-2017, 06:29 PM
***Jesse Wade thread***

cggonzaga
12-10-2017, 06:29 PM
Its not weird, Its personal. When Josh was a RS freshman he started posting how he didnt like Josh's hair and how he thought Josh was too flashy, Josh was more concerned with appearance than substance, etc, etc. Said he wasn't a Gonzaga "type" of player (whatever that means). AT one point he even suggested that Zags would be better off if one of the walk ons started in front of him. Its all good though. i enjoy the banter!

I take back earlier comment it wasn’t personal.

bballbeachbum
12-10-2017, 06:36 PM
I see both sides of the coin. You're both right. This team will go as far as Josh takes it, but he needs help. Can't play 38 minutes a game, teammates need to give him a better target to pass to.

Very few teams I've seen can put it all on one guy and be successful. Tim Hardaway did it at UTEP. You could say the same thing for Nigel and Ammo, though Morrison's defense was debatable. For this team to succeed, everyone needs to bring their A game every night. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

hey Texas, Nigel had Shem and Zach inside, with JIII and Tillie also. that's a lot inside. Nigel was awesome but he was hardly alone seems to me
Ammo had JP as a sick two headed monster back then, but Ammo was crazy awesome and his teams did not have the balance and talent of last year's squad, and he gave everyone confidence and raised them, Nigel too but, as mentioned, more other parts on that team. more fits the mold you're describing imo

and like last year's team or any, win as a team or lose as one, right?

bballbeachbum
12-10-2017, 06:38 PM
***Jesse Wade thread***

we all hope he can contribute meaningful minutes as soon as he's able

can I get a what what?! next ;)

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 06:40 PM
***Jesse Wade thread***

Always hijacked.........one mention of some other guard playing well or even just playing and it's an attack. Mile High....none of that was said you are full of garbage. I do like the Bright red mouthpiece though. lololol

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400986883

Half a game played and you cannot tell if Josh was in or out. No big let downs and no big rallys in this game. . The team just moved ahead. I'm thinking he's one of many.....Norvell, Silas did very well too........Josh played a good game against UW. That's about it. All of the guys did. Great game for the Zags.

Now , returning to the Jess Wade thread......

bballbeachbum
12-10-2017, 06:46 PM
Always hijacked.........one mention of some other guard playing well or even just playing and it's an attack. Mile High....none of that was said you are full of garbage. I do like the Bright red mouthpiece though. lololol

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400986883

Half a game played and you cannot tell if Josh was in or out. No big let downs and no big rallys in this game. . The team just moved ahead. I'm thinking he's one of many.....Norvell, Silas did very well too........Josh played a good game against UW. That's about it. All of the guys did. Great game for the Zags.

Now , returning to the Jess Wade thread......

nope, sorry...Josh played a great game as the point guard tonight.

all saw it but you man

MDABE80
12-10-2017, 06:56 PM
There IS no PG!! . Jesus.......Nigel, Pangos, Matt, Dan, Stepp......those were PG's. Josh is playing well as one of the 3 guys out front who seem to be doing very well. Watch a game sometime with that in mind.... we have 3 guards all doing well. The other two are doing well and Josh isn't responsible for their playing. It's silly to think so. I've always said Josh is a decent-good shooter. He's now making less errant passes.it comes with development..and enough mistakes made! lolol

As for his disappearance against Creighton or Nova...

bballbeachbum
12-10-2017, 07:00 PM
there's a difference between talking about his performance, as you now brought up to make your case that Josh isn't a point guard, and whether or not he's playing the point guard position

revealing of your perspective, thanks, but you're still wrong Abe...Josh played the point tonight

john montana
12-10-2017, 07:03 PM
Wow. Talk about a vendetta against a kid you have likely never met...strange and slightly creepy.

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2017, 07:03 PM
There IS no PG!! . Jesus.......Nigel, Pangos, Matt, Dan, Stepp......those were PG's. Josh is playing well as one of the 3 guys out front who seem to be doing very well. Watch a game sometime with that in mind.... we have 3 guards all doing well. The other two are doing well and Josh isn't responsible for their playing. It's silly to think so. I've always said Josh is a decent-good shooter. He's now making less errant passes.it comes with development..and enough mistakes made! lolol

As for his disappearance against Creighton or Nova...

Dude, please stop hijacking every thread. Seriously