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View Full Version : OK Experts, Take Me To School! How to beat Villanova?



MontanaCoyote
12-06-2017, 07:53 AM
It's the Sweet 16 and we're up against Villanova. Please prioritize, in order of importance, the top
3 things the Zag's need to do (as in get a lot better "at" to win this game.
Thank You

hooter73
12-06-2017, 07:59 AM
take care of the ball.
Defend the three point line.
oh and maybe go in thinking they can win instead of looking from the start like they never expected to win. But thats on court leadership and coaching.

CarolinaZagFan
12-06-2017, 07:59 AM
1. Value the basketball more than a poorly coached AAU team.

2. Rebound! Our starting Center has to get more than 0 rebounds. At least jump for them to make it look like you’re trying.

3. Be healthy. We’re not deep enough to compensate for any injuries this year. We really could have used Kispert last night.

gonzagafan62
12-06-2017, 07:59 AM
1. Break the press. No doubt they'll be pressuring the ball.

2. Ball movement. You can catch them on bad switches like we saw last night that lead to easy buckets (kind of like what Wisconsin did to them in the tournament)

3. Play smart defense. You cannot keep falling for the same pump and shot fakes. They are very patient with the basketball and will find the open man. Since JW3 was not in most of the game and neither was kispert it's hard to tell if a 2-3 zone works better (I doubt it) or M2M is better. We just have to play disciplined basketball which we didn't last night at all.

gonzagafan62
12-06-2017, 08:01 AM
Yes rebounding. Huge issue last night too, but I would think if we played solid in the other three areas and not make simple mistakes we'd be okay. Can't give up too many second chance points though or you're inviting a disaster. They don't have a guy over 6'9 so that was concerning also

TexasZagFan
12-06-2017, 08:02 AM
It's the Sweet 16 and we're up against Villanova. Please prioritize, in order of importance, the top
3 things the Zag's need to do (as in get a lot better "at" to win this game.
Thank You

1. Limit turnovers
2. Limit open looks on defense
3. Make them work when we're on offense...get back to making that extra pass.

Pretty much out of The Bear's playbook. For you youngsters out there, I'm referring to Don Haskins. If there's a coach that got more out of his talent than Coach Haskins, I haven't heard of him. Few's pretty close, though.

Latest recruit Mr. Foster's dad played at UTEP for Haskins. If you think The Kennel is a tough venue, consider the Special Events Center back then (now the Haskins Arena): 12,222 screaming fans. Miners had to agree to 2 and 1s to get Georgetown to make a trip there during the 80s.

TacomaZAG
12-06-2017, 08:10 AM
1. Limit TO's
2. Limit (eliminate) stupid fouls, especially on our bigs
3. Make the wide open 3's

Our defense is fine, the effort is fine overall.

The team is not that deep. Athletically, the guys were not dwarfed by Nova. Last night, mentally, they were.

Go ZAGS

TexasZagFan
12-06-2017, 08:13 AM
1. Limit TO's
2. Limit (eliminate) stupid fouls, especially on our bigs
3. Make the wide open 3's

Our defense is fine, the effort is fine overall.

The team is not that deep. Athletically, the guys were not dwarfed by Nova. Last night, mentally, they were.

Go ZAGS

I like your #2. That could really haunt us in the WCC, where the officiating is, ahem, inconsistent.

mgadfly
12-06-2017, 08:17 AM
1. Don't turn the ball over (either unforced or against pressure).
2. Defend the rim (the entire reason this year's version can't extend pressure).
3. Chase players off the three point line (by extending pressure).

They out-rebounded us by 1 offensive rebound. So it wasn't rebounding.
They shot a worse 2 point field goal percentage (so it wasn't shooting).
They made two more free throws than us.

So I don't think any of those areas were really what killed us.

They made 4 more three pointers even though we took more attempts. Good shooting teams will make a lot of their three pointers. Last season we were top 50 in preventing teams from taking the three pointer. This year we are dismal at it. Part of that is because we don't really have an eraser in the middle that gives the staff and guards confidence to really extend and pressure on defense. Tillie and Larsen are blocking a lot of shots, I'd probably start pressuring more on the perimeter now to get ready for this type of matchup in the tournament. We can't let a team bomb away from the outside.

Our other hope is that Villanova has to play Florida first and then we don't even have to play them. I think Florida is going to be able to match up with Nova's guards, and once they get their two centers back (especially the senior) they are going to have an elite defender/shot blocker in the middle.

Hoopaholic
12-06-2017, 08:28 AM
Limit turnovers
Match. Intensity
Hit open shots

bballbeachbum
12-06-2017, 08:40 AM
use bigs to control tempo inside, like in 2nd half
punish the press by hitting the open shots created for 40 minutes!! this is the biggest one to me
learn from this emotionally so next time Zags don't get jumped and instead jump their butts

FlyZag
12-06-2017, 09:17 AM
Our starting PG had 5 turnovers. Our starting front court had 7 more. That is 12 Turnovers from our LEADERS. We lost by 16... and it wasn't that close. It doesn't take any super analysis to figure out why we lost the game.

To add

We were missing a starter (Kispert), we had our Senior leader and West Region MVP only play 18 min and play one of his worse games EVER. JW3 had an ORrating of 65 on 20% shooting. 3 turnovers and ZERO rebounds.

The fact that we ONLY lost by 16 is amazing.

I was worried about our LEADERSHIP. From my chair, it seems we are missing that vocal on the floor leader. Last year it as PK and NWG. This year... Perk and JW3 have such passive personalities.. Great young men.. but quiet on the floor. I think Kispert has some of those qualities.. but he was injured, DNP. Silas was probably our best leader last night... but it just wasn't enough to beat the #1Kenpom team in a semi-home environment. The wildcats came to play. They were engaged and came to play with FIRE. The Zags not-so-much.

I still believe we will grow as a team throughout the season. We will be a tough out in March. I think we win if we play this same team in March.

former1dog
12-06-2017, 09:26 AM
Limit turnovers
Match. Intensity
Hit open shots

Bingo!

Not complicated. Difficult to execute against an excellent team, but not complicated.

Zagceo
12-06-2017, 09:37 AM
Our starting PG had 5 turnovers. Our starting front court had 7 more. That is 12 Turnovers from our LEADERS. We lost by 16... and it wasn't that close. It doesn't take any super analysis to figure out why we lost the game.


agree...but the trend is not our friend..we won the Texas game with 24 turnovers

problem is ....we won't see any team with size and speed like our past 5 opponents (excluding Incarnate) until the tourney

OldGoatZagFan
12-06-2017, 09:46 AM
Make the simple play. It usually means more quick passes and the defense makes mistakes. Make the bunnies.
Trying to make the "home run" pass/play tends to leave a couple of players out of position for rebounds.
The best Team play usually wins.

Now go kick the Huskies!

ZagsObserver
12-06-2017, 10:06 AM
Turnovers, perimeter d, and try to control the pace of the game.

Not being able to control the pace undoubtedly led to many of the turnovers.

JPtheBeasta
12-06-2017, 10:44 AM
Minus the turnovers, the Zags were efficient with scoring the basketball, and that was with a poor 3-point shooting game. They really didn’t need to do much more to win last night than to play harder on defense and avoid unforced errors (I include some of those offensive fouls in that estimation).

CDC84
12-06-2017, 11:36 AM
I am not sure this team has a leader and ever will have a leader. It wouldn't be the first Gonzaga team to be without one. You cannot force someone to be a leader. The bottom line is that all of GU's most experienced players....Melson, Perks, JWIII....are quiet, introverted guys. They don't and never will get in the face of players like Nigel did or even how Karno did on occasion. The best future leader on this team is Kispert, but unless you have Carmelo or Michael Kidd Gilchrist, it's never a good idea for a freshman to be a leader. The freshman usually needs to back up his words with transcendent talent in order for it to work.

CDC84
12-06-2017, 11:44 AM
Get Corey Kispert healthy. He wouldn't have won the game for GU last night, but he would've lessened the damage. Rui was just totally lost on both ends.

Mr Vulture
12-06-2017, 11:52 AM
1. Limit TO's
2. Limit (eliminate) stupid fouls, especially on our bigs
3. Make the wide open 3's

Our defense is fine, the effort is fine overall.

The team is not that deep. Athletically, the guys were not dwarfed by Nova. Last night, mentally, they were.

Go ZAGS

This is exactly what I was going to post...plus be fully healthy...

ZagMan in Philly
12-06-2017, 12:30 PM
Dictate the pace of the game
Take good percentage shots
and most of all, the best players have to show up EVERY GAME. If JW got half the points and rebounds as he did in the Florida game, we would have made a game against Nova.
And last thing, score more than them.

vandalzag
12-06-2017, 12:43 PM
Zags cut the turnovers to their season average of 12 and have Tillie and JW play to 80% of their YTD production and the Zags are right in last nights game.

I would be a little concerned if I was Villanova. The Zags were brutal last night, especially in the first half. Yet the Zags managed to cut the lead to single digits with 9 minutes left. After that Nova managed to spread the gap but not by that much. Based on the first half this should have been a 30 point beat down. Zags did not quit, played with life in the 2nd half. Overall they pooped the bed. The only thing last night proves is the Zags are not good enough to beat a good team when playing bad. The good news is most of the issues were self-inflicted and can be corrected. The season is early plenty of time to improve.

Snagglezag
12-06-2017, 12:57 PM
Does anybody have a sense as to why the coaching staff never instituted a press? They've got the length...

By turning Nova over a couple of times, my hunch is that could have jump-started a Zags team struggling to find good looks in the half court. Perhaps Few felt that those heady Nova guards would have exposed it. Always pro's and con's to pressing but the Zags were on their heels from the tip. A press has the potential to flip the switch.

Frustrating night but this curb stomping will pay dividends later.

Mantua
12-06-2017, 01:28 PM
Does anybody have a sense as to why the coaching staff never instituted a press? They've got the length...

By turning Nova over a couple of times, my hunch is that could have jump-started a Zags team struggling to find good looks in the half court. Perhaps Few felt that those heady Nova guards would have exposed it. Always pro's and con's to pressing but the Zags were on their heels from the tip. A press has the potential to flip the switch.

Frustrating night but this curb stomping will pay dividends later.

The press is exhausting to execute throughout a game and it also is a little more complicated than it looks. (Villanova is so so fit and prepared.) There is always someone left open. This team is still green and adding the press to their assignments could have confused then even more in a game where they couldn’t take care of the ball and defend inside and out.

I thought Perkins and Tillie looked tired and like they might have colds.

vandalzag
12-06-2017, 01:36 PM
The press is exhausting to execute throughout a game and it also is a little more complicated than it looks. (Villanova is so so fit and prepared.) There is always someone left open. This team is still green and adding the press to their assignments could have confused then even more in a game where they couldn’t take care of the ball and defend inside and out.

They pressed one time and gave up a dunk. I think this team has the capabilities to press with Rui or Jones at the point of attack. 3/4 court soft press used to be a weapon of the old zags would like to see it come back. Maybe they have tried it in practice and do not like the looks.

Snagglezag
12-06-2017, 01:41 PM
The press is exhausting to execute throughout a game and it also is a little more complicated than it looks. (Villanova is so so fit and prepared.) There is always someone left open. This team is still green and adding the press to their assignments could have confused then even more in a game where they couldn’t take care of the ball and defend inside and out.

I definitely get that. Implementing a sound press is no small feat. May have been too early for the green horns, but still, it could have been worth the gamble on a few possessions.

Zags11
12-06-2017, 03:06 PM
Take care of the ball. Take care of the ball. Take care of the ball.

Hope rui learns defense in zones. Make your 3s. Fight for loose balls. Have energy.


Play your A game.

Hoopaholic
12-06-2017, 03:42 PM
Does anybody have a sense as to why the coaching staff never instituted a press? They've got the length...

By turning Nova over a couple of times, my hunch is that could have jump-started a Zags team struggling to find good looks in the half court. Perhaps Few felt that those heady Nova guards would have exposed it. Always pro's and con's to pressing but the Zags were on their heels from the tip. A press has the potential to flip the switch.

Frustrating night but this curb stomping will pay dividends later.

Foul trouble
Short bench
Youngins still learning so experienc d team would eat them up alive

Install and perfect in lesser games where errors do not spell doom

raise the zag
12-06-2017, 03:50 PM
straight for the horses' mouth.

Zach states,


“Honestly they were playing a lot harder than us throughout the entire game. We’re going to get back in the gym and fix it.”

Enough said. Admits the team wasn't mentally ready, nor did they give it 100%.

Incredibly disappointed in the guys (save Larsen, Norvell, and Melson somewhat). They fly all the way to New York to not show up and play hard. Inexcusable. We don't need a pat on the back, rather a classic Bob Huggins-esque arse chewing.

As a fan, I get losing, it happens, but I don't get not competing.

Here is what Larsen said, which is telling,


“The key is that we stay together and focus on the plan,” the 6-foot-11 center said. “We didn’t execute that to the standard we wanted.

The guys are displaying selfish play. By their passing, or lack thereof, the forced shots, looking at open guys but dribbling into nothing or easy TO, offensive foul, ugly shot, etc. Its not a great look on this team or any example for the young guys trying to win as a TEAM. The isolated movement, the lack of discipline, and no longer moving the ball around. Going away from the game plan and not relying on each other, rather seeking to pad the box score.

Disheartening as a ZAG fan.

Here is the link for quotes. (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/06/gonzagas-norvell-larsen-comfortable-in-garden-spot/)

titopoet
12-08-2017, 02:19 PM
Well, in the sweet sixteen, GU would have already made strides especially with the young players (Villanova has less of a ceiling). Don't go for the ball fake. (This is a big aspect.) Feed the inside and play inside out. Rotate on D and switch on high posts. Keep tose hands up when playing D.

GU had a mental burb game and Villanova played its best. While Villanova is a bit better at this point they are not 16 points better.

MontanaCoyote
12-09-2017, 07:53 AM
Thanks All!

TexasZagFan
12-09-2017, 07:58 AM
Thanks All!

MC, now that you been "educated", what is your take on all of our suggestions? Unlike Dr. Graue's classes, there are no wrong answers (damn, he was brutal when you gave him a wrong answer...lol).

MontanaCoyote
12-09-2017, 05:02 PM
MC, now that you been "educated", what is your take on all of our suggestions? Unlike Dr. Graue's classes, there are no wrong answers (damn, he was brutal when you gave him a wrong answer...lol).

My take is pretty simple. As you can see, there was no shortage of needed improvements. Some, like stop falling for the shot fake, were interesting (I can't remember the last shot fake I saw before the Villanova game) but probably coachable
enough not to pose a serious problem next time around.

So, I'd say there a two absolutes. One, take care of the damn ball! This includes playing as a team and sticking to the game plan. In short, no more Helter Skelter.......Cut That Out ! Stop That!

Two, Fire out of the gate then crank up the after burners. Play hard, play mad, play with passion and purpose. Play proud.
Play Gonzaga basketball.

As a footnote, there were several comments about leadership. That is understandable, especially given the one two leadership punch we had last year with Shem and Nigel. Time will only tell on that one. Possibly the most valuable
component of leadership is that, by both play and example, a leader makes those around him better. A tall order.

The Zag's need a leader, or two, but until and if that leadership blossoms, coaches and players collectively will need to enforce the necessary discipline to keep this team a team.

PS Having this team watch some video of last year's team might be helpful. "Look, you can do this!" So do it!

Be Well, TZF