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zagdontzig
12-03-2017, 06:54 PM
We beat strong Seton Hall and Xavier teams en route to last year's final four, and we beat Creighton, and hopefully are at least competitive against Villanova in what amounts to an away game. That makes us at least 3-1 against the Big East (not including our loss to Syracuse) in the Karnowski era.

I don't propose reawakening the thoroughly-discussed issue on the merits, but do want to pose this hypothetical: would you rather have

a. A guaranteed national title in 2019 with no immediate prospects of conference realignment, OR
b. Big East membership today.

kitzbuel
12-03-2017, 06:58 PM
National title

CdAZagFan
12-03-2017, 07:03 PM
National title

+1

ZionZag
12-03-2017, 07:03 PM
We beat strong Seton Hall and Xavier teams en route to last year's final four, and we beat Creighton, and hopefully are at least competitive against Villanova in what amounts to an away game. That makes us at least 3-1 against the Big East (not including our loss to Syracuse) in the Karnowski era.

I don't propose reawakening the thoroughly-discussed issue on the merits, but do want to pose this hypothetical: would you rather have

a. A guaranteed national title in 2019 with no immediate prospects of conference realignment, OR
b. Big East membership today.

Didn't realize Karno played Friday night....

cjm720
12-03-2017, 07:07 PM
How could anyone not say a title?

Radbooks
12-03-2017, 07:43 PM
How could anyone not say a title?

+1

willandi
12-03-2017, 08:04 PM
Reverse poll:

Which would "Nova rather do. Lose to the Zags Tuesday, or make the FF?

thebigsmoove
12-04-2017, 05:43 AM
This might be one of the silliest posts ive seen in this forum...Obviously we would all rather a national title. But either way, we are not guaranteed one, ever. And conference realignment to the big east is never going to happen either. Pointless discussion. Now if were going to talk about a potential scheduling agreement in the non conference season with the big east where we would play 2 home and 2 away games every year with a rotating slate of Big East teams? That would be much more likely and would help bolster our non conference schedule.

SWZag
12-04-2017, 05:49 AM
Even without a title, I'd still choose no prospect of conference realignment. But a title would be nice.

ZagMan in Philly
12-04-2017, 06:37 AM
Not losing to Nova!!
National Title of course.

zagdontzig
12-04-2017, 06:55 AM
This might be one of the silliest posts ive seen in this forum...Obviously we would all rather a national title. But either way, we are not guaranteed one, ever. And conference realignment to the big east is never going to happen either. Pointless discussion. Now if were going to talk about a potential scheduling agreement in the non conference season with the big east where we would play 2 home and 2 away games every year with a rotating slate of Big East teams? That would be much more likely and would help bolster our non conference schedule.

Not that silly. At least 6 people (not including me) of 40 choose conference reallignment. It's certainly not the majority, but it has support.

I think your other points are well-taken, but I pose the question not to propose a choice in a fictional world where we could be give such a choice, but to gauge how important, if at all, conference reallignment is to us. I also like your idea of having a rotating slate of 4 home and homes, but that limits our OOC variation as well. I think our resume is stronger when we play against a variety of conferences.

thebigsmoove
12-04-2017, 07:44 AM
Not that silly. At least 6 people (not including me) of 40 choose conference reallignment. It's certainly not the majority, but it has support.

I think your other points are well-taken, but I pose the question not to propose a choice in a fictional world where we could be give such a choice, but to gauge how important, if at all, conference reallignment is to us. I also like your idea of having a rotating slate of 4 home and homes, but that limits our OOC variation as well. I think our resume is stronger when we play against a variety of conferences.

IMO, conference realignment only makes sense in a few leagues. The Pac 12 is football oriented and will never be interested, the Mountain West is honestly not an upgrade anymore, the Big 12 is football oriented and probably would never be interested, and the Big East is, well, in the East. Maybe the American (AAC) could somehow split into a west and east region? But it remains to be seen how this would work.

While the WCC isn't the best basketball conference in the country, it is in fact the best fit across the board for our program as a whole. Basketball is king, the schools are similar is size and type, the region makes sense. There should be some tweaks made to scheduling down the road if we add a couple teams (like going back to a 16 game conference schedule). Scheduling agreements seem to be the best way forward IMO, many Big East teams would like to beef up their non conference slate, and we offer them a stout test.

zagdontzig
12-04-2017, 08:00 AM
IMO, conference realignment only makes sense in a few leagues. The Pac 12 is football oriented and will never be interested, the Mountain West is honestly not an upgrade anymore, the Big 12 is football oriented and probably would never be interested, and the Big East is, well, in the East. Maybe the American (AAC) could somehow split into a west and east region? But it remains to be seen how this would work.

While the WCC isn't the best basketball conference in the country, it is in fact the best fit across the board for our program as a whole. Basketball is king, the schools are similar is size and type, the region makes sense. There should be some tweaks made to scheduling down the road if we add a couple teams (like going back to a 16 game conference schedule). Scheduling agreements seem to be the best way forward IMO, many Big East teams would like to beef up their non conference slate, and we offer them a stout test.

Again I find myself agreeing with everything you're saying. With regard to the MWC not being an upgrade and the WCC being a basketball conference, both of those are for the same reason: Gonzaga. Not sure that changes anything except that Mark Few is clearly disappointed in the rest of the conference's effort.

TexasZagFan
12-04-2017, 08:18 AM
Again I find myself agreeing with everything you're saying. With regard to the MWC not being an upgrade and the WCC being a basketball conference, both of those are for the same reason: Gonzaga. Not sure that changes anything except that Mark Few is clearly disappointed in the rest of the conference's effort.

MWC wouldn't be an upgrade? For the sake of argument, allow me to compare the teams in each conference:

SMC
USF
BYU
USD
Pepperdine
Pacific
Portland
LMU
Santa Clara

As opposed to:

Nevada
Boise State
UNLV
San Diego State
Wyoming
Fresno St.
Colorado St.
Air Force
Utah State
New Mexico
San Jose State

MWC has a few weak programs in there, but 7 teams have an RPI of 125 or better. UNM will come back...the Pit is one of the great venues in college basketball. MWC currently 9th in RPI, WCC 13th.

zagdontzig
12-04-2017, 09:14 AM
MWC wouldn't be an upgrade? For the sake of argument, allow me to compare the teams in each conference:

SMC
USF
BYU
USD
Pepperdine
Pacific
Portland
LMU
Santa Clara

As opposed to:

Nevada
Boise State
UNLV
San Diego State
Wyoming
Fresno St.
Colorado St.
Air Force
Utah State
New Mexico
San Jose State

MWC has a few weak programs in there, but 7 teams have an RPI of 125 or better. UNM will come back...the Pit is one of the great venues in college basketball. MWC currently 9th in RPI, WCC 13th.

Not looking at RPI, I was more thinking looking at which is closer to multiple NCAA bids. My take is we'd be trading SMC and BYU for SDSU, UNLV, and Utah State. I think once upon a time, worth it, but SMC and BYU are closer to tournemant bids than any of the MWC teams

TexasZagFan
12-04-2017, 09:24 AM
Not looking at RPI, I was more thinking looking at which is closer to multiple NCAA bids. My take is we'd be trading SMC and BYU for SDSU, UNLV, and Utah State. I think once upon a time, worth it, but SMC and BYU are closer to tournemant bids than any of the MWC teams

No problem, but there is little doubt that the overall quality of teams is far better in the MWC, and the arenas hold thousands more than most of the WCC band boxes.

stevet75
12-04-2017, 09:31 AM
I'm not a fan of moving to the MWC, however, it should be noted that the university presidents of the MWC had a meeting to discuss the deterioration of MWC basketball and what could be done to improve. Can you imagine the WCC presidents meeting about the state of WCC basketball?

willandi
12-04-2017, 09:44 AM
I'm not a fan of moving to the MWC, however, it should be noted that the university presidents of the MWC had a meeting to discuss the deterioration of MWC basketball and what could be done to improve. Can you imagine the WCC presidents meeting about the state of WCC basketball?

What can we, the Presidents of WCC schools, do, to get more money out of Gonzaga's basketball prowess?

TexasZagFan
12-04-2017, 09:47 AM
I'm not a fan of moving to the MWC, however, it should be noted that the university presidents of the MWC had a meeting to discuss the deterioration of MWC basketball and what could be done to improve. Can you imagine the WCC presidents meeting about the state of WCC basketball?

Would that meeting be on Skype? lol

Personally, I don't think a move is in the cards, if only from a logistics standpoint. I still have bad memories from several years ago, when we criss-crossed the US multiple times to play Georgia and Virginia, among others, logging something like 20K air miles in a couple of months.

Another poster opined that several schools gave up when BYU joined the WCC. I think there's a lot of truth in that. Wouldn't surprise me if a chunk of the NCAA basketball money is added to Pepperdine's baseball budget. WCC's pretty strong in baseball.

TexasZagFan
12-04-2017, 09:50 AM
What can we, the Presidents of WCC schools, do, to get more money out of Gonzaga's basketball prowess?

They don't have to do a damn thing, that's the beauty of the Zags current run!

These schools have done a good job of capitalizing on the Zags' success, by bundling their annual home game with the Zags into a multiple games package, i.e. you want to see the Zags? Fine, you have to pay for two or more additional games to get the Zags ticket.

willandi
12-04-2017, 09:55 AM
They don't have to do a damn thing, that's the beauty of the Zags current run!

These schools have done a good job of capitalizing on the Zags' success, by bundling their annual home game with the Zags into a multiple games package, i.e. you want to see the Zags? Fine, you have to pay for two or more additional games to get the Zags ticket.

True, but they could seek an even bigger cut of the tourney money!

thespywhozaggedme
12-04-2017, 10:20 AM
We beat strong Seton Hall and Xavier teams en route to last year's final four, and we beat Creighton, and hopefully are at least competitive against Villanova in what amounts to an away game. That makes us at least 3-1 against the Big East (not including our loss to Syracuse) in the Karnowski era.

I don't propose reawakening the thoroughly-discussed issue on the merits, but do want to pose this hypothetical: would you rather have

a. A guaranteed national title in 2019 with no immediate prospects of conference realignment, OR
b. Big East membership today.

Why 2019? Why not 2018?

TexasZagFan
12-04-2017, 10:25 AM
True, but they could seek an even bigger cut of the tourney money!

By doing that, it would surely push the Zags out of the WCC. Zags would likely forfeit their share for five years, but then the WCC would be relegated to a one-bid conference, with one game a year, two max. Based on prior calculations, each team would receive about $100K per year, instead of the $500K+ they'll be getting over the next 4 years.

That wouldn't be very smart, would it? And there goes your TV contract for the conference...

mgadfly
12-04-2017, 10:33 AM
How about, while we are discussing fantasies that can't possibly happen, entering into a basketball-only conference relegation system with the Mountain West. Each season the top 10 teams (method for determining based on previous season's results) play in the tougher Mountain Coast Conference while the bottom ten teams play in the West Mountain Conference. This year it'd be:

Gonzaga (1)
Saint Mary's (15)
Nevada (54)
San Diego St. (78)
BYU (80)
Colorado St. (86)
Boise St. (94)
Fresno St. (98)
New Mexico (119)
Santa Clara (125)

That league would almost certainly be a multiple bid league. The weaker West Mountain Conference would still get a 15 or 16 seed in the dance as well and that team would be realigned into the Mountain Coast Conference the following season (with the bottom team from the MCC being realigned to the WMC).

TexasZagFan
12-04-2017, 10:36 AM
How about, while we are discussing fantasies that can't possibly happen, entering into a basketball-only conference relegation system with the Mountain West. Each season the top 10 teams (method for determining based on previous season's results) play in the tougher Mountain Coast Conference while the bottom ten teams play in the West Mountain Conference. This year it'd be:

Gonzaga (1)
Saint Mary's (15)
Nevada (54)
San Diego St. (78)
BYU (80)
Colorado St. (86)
Boise St. (94)
Fresno St. (98)
New Mexico (119)
Santa Clara (125)

That league would almost certainly be a multiple bid league. The weaker West Mountain Conference would still get a 15 or 16 seed in the dance as well and that team would be realigned into the Mountain Coast Conference the following season (with the bottom team from the MCC being realigned to the MCC).

Nice post, fly! 3, possibly 4 bids would come from that group. The conference championship tournament would have more intrigue to it, as well.

bartruff1
12-04-2017, 01:09 PM
I don't believe in polls anymore, they are all rigged.....fake news....sad....

It is not a binary choice..... the options are not mutually exclusive.....perhaps a choice between the WCC OR the Big would tell you something....not much....but something...

thebigsmoove
12-04-2017, 01:17 PM
How about, while we are discussing fantasies that can't possibly happen, entering into a basketball-only conference relegation system with the Mountain West. Each season the top 10 teams (method for determining based on previous season's results) play in the tougher Mountain Coast Conference while the bottom ten teams play in the West Mountain Conference. This year it'd be:

Gonzaga (1)
Saint Mary's (15)
Nevada (54)
San Diego St. (78)
BYU (80)
Colorado St. (86)
Boise St. (94)
Fresno St. (98)
New Mexico (119)
Santa Clara (125)

That league would almost certainly be a multiple bid league. The weaker West Mountain Conference would still get a 15 or 16 seed in the dance as well and that team would be realigned into the Mountain Coast Conference the following season (with the bottom team from the MCC being realigned to the WMC).

If somehow out of the ashes of the Mountain West and WCC as well as a couple other western conferences you could formulate a conference with the 10 or 12 best basketball schools west of the mississippi not in the pac 12 or big 12, then i would have to look at that.

Imagine a league with Creighton, Wichita State, Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Marys, Nevada, San Diego St, Boise St, Fresno St, New Mexico

Maybe throw Colorado St, Utah St, Air Force, and someone else in the mix too, idk

That would be a helluva basketball conference. Will it happen? Probably not.

willandi
12-04-2017, 05:50 PM
If somehow out of the ashes of the Mountain West and WCC as well as a couple other western conferences you could formulate a conference with the 10 or 12 best basketball schools west of the mississippi not in the pac 12 or big 12, then i would have to look at that.

Imagine a league with Creighton, Wichita State, Gonzaga, BYU, Saint Marys, Nevada, San Diego St, Boise St, Fresno St, New Mexico

Maybe throw Colorado St, Utah St, Air Force, and someone else in the mix too, idk

That would be a helluva basketball conference. Will it happen? Probably not.

Maybe UW, if they wouldn't pull the RPI down too much!

ZagsGoZags
12-05-2017, 12:41 AM
Playing in one of the five power conferences could help our recruiting over decades; esp. high school kids from Midwest and East and South