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View Full Version : Gonzaga vs Creighton Post Game thoughts and analysis



SWZag
12-01-2017, 08:03 PM
1) I really like Coach McDermott
2) I'd love to play Creighton every year
3) Finally got Creighton to shoot less than 50%
4) Melson, Tillie and Norvell came up Huge! Major props to them. If we can beat a Top 25 team with Williams and Perkins being "no-shows," then this team is going to have a bright future!

seacatfan
12-01-2017, 08:05 PM
5)Kispert out injured, bench got quite a bit shorter w/ Norvell moving into the starting lineup

ZagMan in Philly
12-01-2017, 08:06 PM
ZN can ball.

23dpg
12-01-2017, 08:07 PM
Agree
Agree
Love it
A little hatsh to call JWill a no show. 15 and 5.

Poor effort in the first half. Great defense in the second. I though most of their made baskets in the second half were well contested.

former1dog
12-01-2017, 08:08 PM
Williams needs to get quicker in his decision making on offense. The ball is consistently getting stuck in his hand when he faces up and dribbles.

Unfortunately Williams also had his poorest ever defensive game tonight. I expect hell be better in every facet on Tuesday.

bballbeachbum
12-01-2017, 08:09 PM
5)Kispert out injured, bench got quite a bit shorter w/ Norvell moving into the starting lineup

bench got shorter by one player if that's what quite a bit means, Jones played 10 Rui 15 and Larsen 9...still 8 in the rotation, and the player that moved in matured before our eyes and filled in quite nicely

Skimhvn
12-01-2017, 08:09 PM
Their shooting in 1st half were too good, I don't think Zags defense were bad.

Zagceo
12-01-2017, 08:10 PM
Creigton and Villanova have my 2 favorite coaches

58% first half 38% second half to keep streak alive ....48% for game

SWZag
12-01-2017, 08:11 PM
Agree
Agree
Love it
A little hatsh to call JWill a no show. 15 and 5.

Poor effort in the first half. Great defense in the second. I though most of their made baskets in the second half were well contested.
23, absolutely right. I shouldn't have called it that. I guess very slow start would be more appropriate.

DixieZag
12-01-2017, 08:13 PM
What a turn around by Norvelle. He looked like a chucker out of the offense in the first half. Second half, he's moving, he's driving, playing D, grabbing rebounds, and suddenly he can't miss.

I like that we can find guys to step up and win when we have a starter down, Perk just completely out of it (though he was blanketed and that frustrated him badly, still should have handled it better). JWIII having a bad first half

Down 7 at home to a team that looked better in every area of the game

And they come out and go on a 112-3 run, that was amazing mental toughness.

Team keeps showing me things that surprise me. I'm not surprised we won, definitely surprised how we won. I think Creighton can win a lot of games this year, too.

bballbeachbum
12-01-2017, 08:16 PM
Zags showed they can win in different ways, different matchups can run the day depending. Thomas puts the clamps on everyone he defends, and Josh's numbers weren't great though I still thought he managed the game pretty well, more old school point guard and excellent defending, even with 5 TOs. But other matchups went off and carried the day easily, even without Josh scoring big
I think it's an awesome sign
halftime change of Zach stepping out defensively changed game imo; Jays brutalized him in the first half and that was not available after halftime

Birddog
12-01-2017, 08:18 PM
It should be noted that Jeremy Jones put in a solid 10 mins, he's not flashy but he's not a liability either. The bench though short, was so good that Kispert's mins were covered nicely. esp after Norvell's "check engine" light came on.

zag67
12-01-2017, 08:18 PM
Zach. I thought he did a great job as a shooter. When missing, keep shooting until you start making. Fun game to watch. Both teams have great shooters. Also great games by Tillie and Melson. With good games by the rest of the team

tinfoilzag
12-01-2017, 08:19 PM
This game was a blueprint for disrupting Josh and JW3's game, it's good we have the balance to overcome them having off games.

-JW3 needs to shoot 10' jumpers if guys are going to play that far off of him when he faces up. Otherwise, offensive fouls will keep him out of games
-Norvell has absolutely no conscience
-Rui quietly gets tough rebounds, makes tough baskets inside, and can stop guys cold when he is one-on-one defense
-Tillie needs to slow down a bit or he's going to be a lottery pick

Zagceo
12-01-2017, 08:19 PM
Thomas has 6’10” wing span .....could explain some of Perkins problems

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-01-2017, 08:21 PM
For one half, Norvell looked like the player we hoped to see. He has a bright future in a Zag uniform.

DixieZag
12-01-2017, 08:21 PM
Rui is making a case for needing much more PT

Just the rebounding difference he makes is huge

Reborn
12-01-2017, 08:22 PM
Zags 91
Creighton 74

Zags have a huge second half scoring 54 points on 62% shooting. They looked how I thought they would look tonight but it took them a half to find themselves. Norvell had 21 points in the second half and made 4 threes. He looked really good that 2nd half and I hope he continues to find his shot and his confidence. Tillie actually led the Zags in scoring with 22 points, and also had an absolutely great game. He threw one down with absolute power. He also played defense blocking 4 shots. Finally, Melson had 21 also scoring fifteen in the first half, as he and Tillie held the Zags together in the first half as no one but them could really find the center of the basket. It was a career night in scoring for all three of these Zags.

The Zags shot 54.4% for the game, and made ten threes while shooting 0% from behind the 3 point line. They shot 76% from the foul line. A good night shooting, especially since they shot so poorly the first half. I think that beating Creighton by 17 points is pretty darn good. I wasn't too far off in my prediction as I thought that they'd win by 14. You have to give a team 7 to 8 points just for playing at home. Creighton looked really good, especially in the first half as they couldn't miss from behind the 3 point line. Few must have gotten on them at half time because they played much better D in the second half. Creighton had 46 at the half. So Gonzaga held them to 28 points in the second half. Great game Zags.

Go Zags20

Zag_Dad
12-01-2017, 08:22 PM
Creigton and Villanova have my 2 favorite coaches

58% first half 38% second half to keep streak alive ....48% for game

You mean your second and third favorite coaches? Behind your favorite... Mark Few.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-01-2017, 08:27 PM
Three highlights of this game for me:
1) Tillie showing some alpha male mentality, toughness and nastiness.
2) Silas w career high in points and best shooting night of his career! I’m thinking this performance may help him turn the corner and become the consistent scorer & shooter that he.
3) Norvell’s 2nd half was like watching it all come together for him...everything!

I’d still like to see JWIII playing alongside Larsen more often. He’s a power forward and looks uncomfortable when asked to post up down low and make something happen.

thespywhozaggedme
12-01-2017, 08:29 PM
5)Kispert out injured, bench got quite a bit shorter w/ Norvell moving into the starting lineup

And we still won by almost 20 against a top 25 ranked team. We're so deep and talented. I said it in another thread and took a lot of flak for it, but ZN is a better Gary Bell.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-01-2017, 08:30 PM
And we still won by almost 20 against a top 25 ranked team. We're so deep and talented. I said it in another thread and took a lot of flak for it, but ZN is a better Gary Bell.

Uhhh, no...can’t say that at this point.

Reborn
12-01-2017, 08:33 PM
Zags 91
Creighton 74

Zags have a huge second half scoring 54 points on 62% shooting. They looked how I thought they would look tonight but it took them a half to find themselves. Norvell had 21 points in the second half and made 4 threes. He looked really good that 2nd half and I hope he continues to find his shot and his confidence. Tillie actually led the Zags in scoring with 22 points, and also had an absolutely great game. He threw one down with absolute power. He also played defense blocking 4 shots. Finally, Melson had 21 also scoring fifteen in the first half, as he and Tillie held the Zags together in the first half as no one but them could really find the center of the basket. It was a career night in scoring for all three of these Zags.

The Zags shot 54.4% for the game, and made ten threes while shooting 0% from behind the 3 point line. They shot 76% from the foul line. A good night shooting, especially since they shot so poorly the first half. I think that beating Creighton by 17 points is pretty darn good. I wasn't too far off in my prediction as I thought that they'd win by 14. You have to give a team 7 to 8 points just for playing at home. Creighton looked really good, especially in the first half as they couldn't miss from behind the 3 point line. Few must have gotten on them at half time because they played much better D in the second half. Creighton had 46 at the half. So Gonzaga held them to 28 points in the second half. Great game Zags.

Go Zags20
Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

ps I will no longer bust my butt to get a thread up right after the game just to see someone else has posted it. Congrats SWZag. This thread is yours.

Zagceo
12-01-2017, 08:35 PM
You mean your second and third favorite coaches? Behind your favorite... Mark Few.

Yep

LongIslandZagFan
12-01-2017, 08:38 PM
The KC really really needs to start saying Tillie Tillie every time he scores.

That being said. Norvell just plain made a believer out of me in the second half. Also, great stat thrown up on ESPN... Rui... is up to I think 15 FT in a row.

GonzaGAW
12-01-2017, 08:39 PM
- this kind of game can make you giddy
- 3 players with game highs
- great second half comeback
- keeping opponent below 50% shooting (by a single bucket)

- but I'm concerned at the high rate of turnovers by Williams
- I'm concerned that we could play so poorly for 20 minutes on the 3 point line against a team we knew liked to shoot the 3 and can shot the 3.
- I'm concerned that the bench scoring has been very low relative to total points scored as of late.

Zagceo
12-01-2017, 08:41 PM
Silas played 38 BIG MINUTES

bballbeachbum
12-01-2017, 08:43 PM
Silas played 38 BIG MINUTES

big time, and showed some big leadership too

bartruff1
12-01-2017, 08:45 PM
Coach McDermott meet Coach Few....

seacatfan
12-01-2017, 08:55 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to shortchange Jones. Last game was an anomaly w/ a weak opponent and so many minutes for the bench, but Rui, Norvell and Larsen combined for almost 50 points. Not much scoring from the bench tonight, but of course that's not the only way to contribute.

Goshzagit
12-01-2017, 09:01 PM
my 5 favorite things:

1. Tillie playing with passion/intensity. When he gets p!ssed, or plays with energy, he is unstoppable in all phases of the game.

2. Perkins going 0-2, not able to find his shot, but adjusting his game to draw fouls. Drive to the lane if they are playing that far out. Smart. And moving the ball well in 2nd half. Not forcing it.

3. Norvell playing within the team and offense, instead of just himself. Implementing parts of his game into the flow of the game. Huge. Not to mention he took smart shots, a first this season.

4. Melson's leadership and unflinching composure in 2nd half when we got down 7 or 8 pts (could have been much more), and stayed with the plan, even when Perkins sat. Held the point down well, hit shots, played smart, and deferred when others got going, such as Tillie/Norvell.

5. Team intensity in 2nd half, especially defensively. Amazing what can happen with extra effort. J3 quit forcing dumb shots, really trying to "get his" early on, yet they game planned for him. Can't gameplan for every Zag, which is nice to see. Happy the guys held down the fort. Creighton will win a ton of games this season. Maybe 2nd or 3rd in Big East. Elite guards. Stressful 1st half, fun 2nd half. Villanova has the same level of guards, yet better bigs, better bench, a whole different animal. Like Florida but more relentless defense.

Surpringly, Creighton still shot 12-24 from 3pt. Too good of % from 3pt against us once again. Fortunately, we defend the 2 pt shot pretty darn well.

Hoopaholic
12-01-2017, 09:01 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to shortchange Jones. Last game was an anomaly w/ a weak opponent and so many minutes for the bench, but Rui, Norvell and Larsen combined for almost 50 points. Not much scoring from the bench tonight, but of course that's not the only way to contribute.

7 points on 4 total shots. Hard to pass up three career nights

JPtheBeasta
12-01-2017, 09:02 PM
Zach. I thought he did a great job as a shooter. When missing, keep shooting until you start making. Fun game to watch. Both teams have great shooters. Also great games by Tillie and Melson. With good games by the rest of the team

It seems he got it going after taking it to the basket a couple of times and got to watch the ball go in for him. He has such long arms that he has a great chance of scoring over you or drawing a foul. If he starts to show a pull-up mid-range game a la NGW, he would be hard to stop offensively.

DixieZag
12-01-2017, 09:09 PM
Rui earning more PT

He can do so many things, block shots, rebound, hit 3s, he drives the lane and automatic from the FT line.

CdAZagFan
12-01-2017, 09:44 PM
Was so happy to see Norvell rebound after his horrific shooting in the first half. Kept his head in the game, got a couple of 3-point plays the old fashioned way and then started finally hitting his 3's. Very encouraging to see all the support players playing huge roles when JP and JWIII had off nights (and no Kispert). Villanova will be a really good barometer of just how good this team is...

VinnyZag
12-01-2017, 09:51 PM
Tillie is just a stud on defense. He makes the spectacular plays like the blocked shots but he's also just in the right place with his hands up all the time.

Zagceo
12-01-2017, 09:54 PM
Creighton scout said......let Zach shoot......Villanova scout says....maybe not such a good idea

Zagceo
12-01-2017, 09:55 PM
How bout that crazy block from behind Rui had above the rim?

ZagOD7540
12-01-2017, 09:55 PM
Tillie is just a stud on defense. He makes the spectacular plays like the blocked shots but he's also just in the right place with his hands up all the time.

Tillie was great. Seemed like every shot in the paint was heavily contested in the 2nd half. I thought Larson contributed some nice minutes too

Murphy outgo lifer
12-01-2017, 10:36 PM
Wow! Norvell was so impressive in that second half.

He has the ability to be a really great rebounding guard if he commits to it.

He showed that he can make a difference in the game in other ways than just on offense. It felt a little Hart like in that second half the way he was flying around.

Rui had his coming out game against Texas on offense but the offensive end can be very hard to keep consistent from game to game and team to team for a young player. However, Norvell had his coming out game on the defense side and on the effort side and there is no reason he shouldn't be able to bring that every game. I am hoping he can because he looked like one of the best players on the court when he brings the commitment and intensity on the defensive end and that combined with his offensive abilities.

Norvell can get into the lane at will and he amazing vision and excellent passing skills. He was drawing charges early in the year after penetrating, however, he has made the adjustment and he is an excellent finisher, usually finishing through contact and drawing the foul.

He has the potential to be a very special player here at GU due to his skill-set and mental toughness.

He just went off in the second half of a top 25 match-up on a nationally televised game against amazing guards after he went 0-5 in the first half. I can't ever remember a freshman going off for 21 points in a single game let alone one half and against this type of competition.

He is a very special player!!! Hopefully Kispert is healthy on Tuesday and Norvell brings this type of energy off the bench every game.

Zagceo
12-01-2017, 10:39 PM
.“That team right there, as you’ve seen last week in the PK challenge, they’re going to be one of the best teams in the country,” said Creighton’s Marcus Foster, who finished 5-of-9 from beyond the arc with a team-high 21 points. “What I take out of it is, we can compete with one of the best teams in the country, but we kind of have to figure out how to sustain it for 40 minutes.”


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/01/ditching-the-game-plan-a-fatal-move-for-no-25-crei/#/0

caduceus
12-01-2017, 11:01 PM
This game was a blueprint for disrupting Josh and JW3's game, it's good we have the balance to overcome them having off games.


I think this is a good point (pardon the pun). We have basically one serviceable true point guard. I think opponents will emphasize shutting Josh down in their game plans for this reason. That said, nearly every other player except maybe Larsen is reasonably proficient at bringing the ball up the court. We did fine with Josh on the bench for extended minutes. That balance is going to only help the team in the long run.

I was so pleased to see Zach emerge in the second half. I'd been starting to cringe lately when he would let the ball go. "Shoot when you're hot....shoot to get hot" seems to have worked today. If he can keep this up, we are going to be so DANGEROUS as the season progresses. Nightmare to game plan against so many sharpshooters.

I've heard some fantastic things from HS coaches about Zach going out of his way off the court to personally inspire their players, at camp and elsewhere. Says a lot about his character, and I hope he continues to do as well on the court as off.

TexasZagFan
12-01-2017, 11:12 PM
I think this is a good point (pardon the pun). We have basically one serviceable true point guard. I think opponents will emphasize shutting Josh down in their game plans for this reason. That said, nearly every other player except maybe Larsen is reasonably proficient at bringing the ball up the court. We did fine with Josh on the bench for extended minutes. That balance is going to only help the team in the long run.

I was so pleased to see Zach emerge in the second half. I'd been starting to cringe lately when he would let the ball go. "Shoot when you're hot....shoot to get hot" seems to have worked today. If he can keep this up, we are going to be so DANGEROUS as the season progresses. Nightmare to game plan against so many sharpshooters.

I've heard some fantastic things from HS coaches about Zach going out of his way off the court to personally inspire their players, at camp and elsewhere. Says a lot about his character, and I hope he continues to do as well on the court as off.

Here's one of my favorite photos EVER. Zach couldn't have been friendlier. He made a big impression on my grandson.

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg.html)

Murphy outgo lifer
12-01-2017, 11:29 PM
I am very excited about the possibilities for this team:

Tillie and Melson are both just Swiss army knife type players doing the little things as well as being stat-stuffers with assists, steals, rebounds, blocks.

Tillie - has been kind of up-and-down on the offensive end from game-to-game but he has put up his biggest numbers in the toughest games so far: 20 in a game we struggled with against Utah State, 17 against Florida, 10 against Texas, and now 22 against Creighton. Going back to last season JIII seems also to have this same big game switch where he performs at his best against the toughest competition and despite a challenging portion of the season last year Perkins has shown this ability as well where he can go off and be a big-time scorer against the best competition. That gives us 3 guys that are big time "gamers" and that is huge for beating tough teams in March.

Melson - has been the go-to defensive specialist for the past 2 seasons and this season I would go out on a limb and say that he is the best defensive guard we have had at GU. The exciting thing about Melson is that his offensive performance tonight is something that I believe he is capable of doing on a much more regular basis. He is such a great penetrating and finishing guard and I think he needs to be much more aggressive with this part of his game and draw more fouls since he is an extremely effective free-throw shooter. He has also shown that he can be an effective 3 point shooter, he has been hitting NBA distance 3s the last couple of games and he just needs to have more confidence in himself in shooting them. If he can increase his offensive production and combine that with his defensive abilities he could be one of the most complete guards in the whole country and be a huge difference maker come March.

I do not think we have ever had a team that had so many people be able to penetrate and get to the basket. Perkins is really good at driving but he needs to work on finishing better or at least drawing a foul, Melson as aforementioned is great at this, Norvell may be the best on the whole team, Kispert attacks the basket with authority off penetration and can finish through contact, Rui has been prone to offensive fouls, however, he is an extremely special talent that just needs to make an adjustment (kind of like how Norvell has), even Jones has shown an impressive ability to get to the cup. All of these players are also very good free-throw shooters so they can be effective if they draw fouls. J3 and Tillie can both drive from the perimeter as well. Also, all of these guys can shoot 3's too which opens things up even more. All that being said, I think we are just scratching the surface on the efficiency and potential of this offense.

Larsen - I have been very impressed with this RS Freshman. I said at the beginning of the year that if GU can get good defense and rebounding from him that would be amazing and he has out-performed even my wildest expectations. Very good box-out ability, great hands, and mobile and aware on the defensive end. He also has very good hops and looks to dunk every chance he gets (I have been waiting for big to do that for a long-time). His vision and passing have been extreme impressive as well. Very great role player for this team who can create offensive opportunities with his offensive rebounding abilities and helps out on defense with his shot changing and blocking. I am hoping we can get him a larger role through more PT during conference play so that we have 3 solid and reliable bigs come March.

In looking at this team right now we are 7-1 and have played some very good teams and I still think that we have a tremendous amount of growing left to do. I can't even imagine how good we can be if and when, Melson can be a consistent aggressive force on offense every game, Rui puts it all together on both ends and is attacking like he did against Texas, Norvell intensifies his effort and becomes more comfortable and can bring a huge offensive punch off the bench. Not to mention this team continues to improve individual and team defense.

This could be one scary team come March.

TexasZagFan
12-01-2017, 11:39 PM
This could be one scary team come March.

Murphy, there are 8 WCC coaches that underestimated the Zags, and gave us a bit of bulletin board material. I'll bet they see the Zags as a pretty scary team now.

Based on what I read on God is a Gael, many feel they've already screwed the pooch by losing to Georgia and WSU.

caduceus
12-01-2017, 11:52 PM
Here's one of my favorite photos EVER. Zach couldn't have been friendlier. He made a big impression on my grandson.

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg.html)

That pretty much says it all. Thanks for sharing!

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-02-2017, 04:30 AM
I am very excited about the possibilities for this team:

Tillie and Melson are both just Swiss army knife type players doing the little things as well as being stat-stuffers with assists, steals, rebounds, blocks.

Tillie - has been kind of up-and-down on the offensive end from game-to-game but he has put up his biggest numbers in the toughest games so far: 20 in a game we struggled with against Utah State, 17 against Florida, 10 against Texas, and now 22 against Creighton. Going back to last season JIII seems also to have this same big game switch where he performs at his best against the toughest competition and despite a challenging portion of the season last year Perkins has shown this ability as well where he can go off and be a big-time scorer against the best competition. That gives us 3 guys that are big time "gamers" and that is huge for beating tough teams in March.

Melson - has been the go-to defensive specialist for the past 2 seasons and this season I would go out on a limb and say that he is the best defensive guard we have had at GU. The exciting thing about Melson is that his offensive performance tonight is something that I believe he is capable of doing on a much more regular basis. He is such a great penetrating and finishing guard and I think he needs to be much more aggressive with this part of his game and draw more fouls since he is an extremely effective free-throw shooter. He has also shown that he can be an effective 3 point shooter, he has been hitting NBA distance 3s the last couple of games and he just needs to have more confidence in himself in shooting them. If he can increase his offensive production and combine that with his defensive abilities he could be one of the most complete guards in the whole country and be a huge difference maker come March.

I do not think we have ever had a team that had so many people be able to penetrate and get to the basket. Perkins is really good at driving but he needs to work on finishing better or at least drawing a foul, Melson as aforementioned is great at this, Norvell may be the best on the whole team, Kispert attacks the basket with authority off penetration and can finish through contact, Rui has been prone to offensive fouls, however, he is an extremely special talent that just needs to make an adjustment (kind of like how Norvell has), even Jones has shown an impressive ability to get to the cup. All of these players are also very good free-throw shooters so they can be effective if they draw fouls. J3 and Tillie can both drive from the perimeter as well. Also, all of these guys can shoot 3's too which opens things up even more. All that being said, I think we are just scratching the surface on the efficiency and potential of this offense.

Larsen - I have been very impressed with this RS Freshman. I said at the beginning of the year that if GU can get good defense and rebounding from him that would be amazing and he has out-performed even my wildest expectations. Very good box-out ability, great hands, and mobile and aware on the defensive end. He also has very good hops and looks to dunk every chance he gets (I have been waiting for big to do that for a long-time). His vision and passing have been extreme impressive as well. Very great role player for this team who can create offensive opportunities with his offensive rebounding abilities and helps out on defense with his shot changing and blocking. I am hoping we can get him a larger role through more PT during conference play so that we have 3 solid and reliable bigs come March.

In looking at this team right now we are 7-1 and have played some very good teams and I still think that we have a tremendous amount of growing left to do. I can't even imagine how good we can be if and when, Melson can be a consistent aggressive force on offense every game, Rui puts it all together on both ends and is attacking like he did against Texas, Norvell intensifies his effort and becomes more comfortable and can bring a huge offensive punch off the bench. Not to mention this team continues to improve individual and team defense.

This could be one scary team come March.

Fantastic post Murphy! With you on all counts, especially re: Melson and Larsen.

jazzdelmar
12-02-2017, 04:43 AM
Key play of game was when Jays started pressing, Zags broke it, passed ahead to Norvell and he saw their big man alone under the basket on D and — rather than pass it backwards — drove it right to the defender, fouled, made the FT. Night and day from PK80. That ignited Zags as well as Norvell.

If Tils plays that way at the Garden, start measuring him for the $2,000 draft night suit.

ZionZag
12-02-2017, 04:46 AM
It seems he got it going after taking it to the basket a couple of times and got to watch the ball go in for him. He has such long arms that he has a great chance of scoring over you or drawing a foul. If he starts to show a pull-up mid-range game a la NGW, he would be hard to stop offensively.

And he's going to become much better when he starts using his off hand when driving to the bucket....

stretch
12-02-2017, 04:51 AM
ESPN has a highlight featuring Rui's block but ESPN's box score gives him no credit for that play.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400986881

Zags11
12-02-2017, 05:20 AM
I was at the game.(Thx to my brother)

It was a crazy game. This team can move the ball and score with anyone. I mean we are one FT away or one play away from understand and a top 8 team.

If this bench gets going and gets better(it should) this team can do E8 and F4 run. Seriously.

Best moment of the game was norvell getting on fire. Why? It was great to see him see the shots falling. Then Norvell breasted the rest of the way. Tillie was all special as was Silas.

raise the zag
12-02-2017, 06:36 AM
If Tils plays that way at the Garden, start measuring him for the $2,000 draft night suit.

Kiss Killian goodbye.

Let's just hope Rui isn't tempted too.

All it takes is one high flying dunk, a name brand, and being international helps their "intrigue" (worth a couple draft spots).

Both are already 1st Rd picks, in the eyes of NBA guys.

We can only hope at least one of the two stays at this point.

Tillie hates school, Fwiw.

Zagger
12-02-2017, 06:55 AM
ESPN has a highlight featuring Rui's block but ESPN's box score gives him no credit for that play.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400986881

Interesting .....

http://www.fowlplaces.com/zags/GUstats120117.png

My takes on the game .....
1) Wish I had been there - Looked to be a very fun game to attend!
2) Lovin' me some Melson .... think of him as our stealth Ninja. He makes big plays when the Zags can really use them - no matter who the competitors are (Yeah, I've completely forgotten the missed FT last week - Silas gets better, moves on). I sure hope to see Silas continue to not only keep us in games but also keeping our foes out of the games. Silas D is about as good as it gets.
3) ZN - seems like a bit of Silas is wearing off on Zach. Early on Melson was a bit of a loose cannon - not any more. Zach is a quick learner! Really like his drive to get offensive rebounds. The Zags are good enough shooters that more possessions just plain means more Zag points.
4) Larsen - I really like how he can pass/assist and his passion to improve. I see Jacob only getting better and better and feel the level of competition we're seeing in late Nov and early Dec will have BIG benefits going forward for Larsen in WCC play and in March.
5) J3 - Struggled a bit last night but J3 is solid. I love Jonathan's demeanor and his shift into overdrive when things get tough. I'm sure glad he came to GU and stuck around for another year. He's so entrenched in the program now it's hard to think of him as a transfer.
6) Tillie! Killian reminds me of Ammo in that he uses an opponent's speed/moves against them and nails shots time and time again. If Killian can refrain from not-so-smart fouls he's going to be a huge asset against Villanova.
7) Hachimura - also another offensive rebounder and smoooooth. He seems to find the narrowest of openings to either pass or get the ball through to the hoop. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Rui starts a few games this season as he just keeps improving.
8) Jones - Jeremy is a bit stealthy like Melson. I feel we will see some awesome play by Jeremy both on D and O yet this season. He's a definite contributor to how I feel about the team's depth. The Zags are becoming a team with a pretty darn good bench!

All in all I'm feeling "Improvement" is the name of the game for this bunch of Zags. They are a better team each week and each player gets better. Three Zags with best* games ... against Creighton!?!? Who would have predicted that!

*(or am I overlooking higher game scores for Tillie and Melson before 17-18?)

cscz28
12-02-2017, 08:45 AM
In the middle of rewatching the game. Interesting part at 1630 in the second half when norvell drives for the lay in and few calls Jeremy jones back to the bench from the scorers table where he was likely waiting to sub in for Zach. I’m sure it happens more than I notice but thought it was kind of cool in hindsight given how well Zach did as the second half continued.

DixieZag
12-02-2017, 09:04 AM
I have assumed since last year that this would be Tillie's last year. I didn't know he "hates" school. I hope he loves Gonzaga, I know he loves his team and program, but I mean the campus/classmates.

But, he's gone. He is exactly the type the NBA draft guys seem to love, he can do virtually anything, shoot from long, rebound, dribble, at a long 6-10 and better than average "ups" - no way to keep a guy like that out of the NBA. He has all the skills and in 4 years when his body fills out, he could be a monster.

That means Rui has to stay, at least from a Gonzaga perspective. Rui can almost take over Tillie's role in many ways.

Jazz is right about the play that turned the whole game around, you could feel it. They almost turned us over in that full court press, but getting the ball up and aggressively going at the rim for a 3 pt play punished CU enough they didn't try it again.

My thread on forcing turnovers went ignored, so I'll just note here and hope others weigh-in, this team seems particularly good at forcing turnovers. They seem better than any team we've had in a long time, especially up top with the opposing guards, either having the ball tipped out of their hands, or a pass intercepted.

To beat Villanova we need the same effort by everyone, and we need a way to get Perkins some shots (from the right side). We have a guy shooting at Morrison and Stepp percentages, we need to use him.

sittingon50
12-02-2017, 09:06 AM
That pretty much says it all. Thanks for sharing!

Was your Grandson able to watch last night, TZF?

TexasZagFan
12-02-2017, 09:21 AM
Was your Grandson able to watch last night, TZF?

Just talked to his mom...he was asleep at 6 last night. He'll be with his dad next week, but I'm still planning on a watch party Tuesday night.

The kid has an active life, his school day starts at 7:30. He spends most of his time after school in the gym. Throw in sports and religious education, easy to see why he's gassed by Friday.

Kiddwell
12-02-2017, 09:49 AM
Really liked the sportsmanship shown by both squads. We'd help up their fallen players; they'd help up ours. Respect, camaraderie in the midst of battle. Hope it's the same next year in their place.




:]

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-02-2017, 11:03 AM
I re-watched the 2nd half this morning and if Norvell’s bucket where he attacked the press and scored was the key play of the game as some have said, a close 2nd was his hustle play offensive rebound that led to Tillie’s monster power dunk. Zags has pulled ahead by 6-8 pts or so then Creighton was matching them bucket for bucket for a while. That dunk plus another offensive rebound by Larsen that also led to a Zags’ bucket were also key plays that seemed to break Creighton’s spirit. I love Larsen! If he can get 15 mpg throughout WCC schedule I think he can become a key factor for this team’s postseason aspirations.

dan71w
12-02-2017, 11:44 AM
i did not get a chance to watch the game. but everything i have read, the lead up to the game; and of the game, i have been impressed by Creighton. they really seam like a classy program. i am Glad we played them, and humbled by the respect they showed us. through the media.

Zagdawg
12-02-2017, 11:52 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/02/gonzaga-handles-bluejays-full-court-pressure-late/

MDABE80
12-02-2017, 12:31 PM
Defense in the 2nd half won this one. Bruce Rasmussen ( selection committee and AD at Creighton) thinks this is a FF team.
Tillie has a few more games like this one and he'll be long gone if he wants. Silas played like the kid I thought he'd be when I first saw him 4 years ago. Norvell showed up in the 2nd half. . He's a bit lost on D in the first half but did much better 2nd half. He's got to develop but if h continues, he'll be an essential 4 year kid. With his size and very good speed, he'll get drafted. Major league talent.

Sitting with McDermott, he was in shock the 2nd half when the Zags finally dug in. Creighton lost this because they couldn't get shots...they just couldn't get looks and most shots were awkward due to the defense Few put up and the kids executed. 4 guards and they all shoot well.

In short, we can beat anybody. I was kinda surprised to hear their AD when he said that as best he could tell, we are at or close to the Duke level.
Even with Corey sitting and josh not showing up as he's done, we wowed the Jays. Not to anger anyone but it looked like we play much of this game without a PG. Still the 5 on the floor excelled in the 2nd half. Five kids just playing hard.

I always thought we had the talent for a S16 or maybe an E 8 run. Surely, after watching and listening, we're all of that.

I don't know how we'll do in NYC with NOVA. Defense will be the key.

jazzdelmar
12-02-2017, 01:01 PM
Defense in the 2nd half won this one. Bruce Rasmussen ( selection committee and AD at Creighton) thinks this is a FF team.
Tillie has a few more games like this one and he'll be long gone if he wants. Silas played like the kid I thought he'd be when I first saw him 4 years ago. Norvell showed up in the 2nd half. . He's a bit lost on D in the first half but did much better 2nd half. He's got to develop but if h continues, he'll be an essential 4 year kid. With his size and very good speed, he'll get drafted. Major league talent.

Sitting with McDermott, he was in shock the 2nd half when the Zags finally dug in. Creighton lost this because they couldn't get shots...they just couldn't get looks and most shots were awkward due to the defense Few put up and the kids executed. 4 guards and they all shoot well.

In short, we can beat anybody. I was kinda surprised to hear their AD when he said that as best he could tell, we are at or close to the Duke level.
Even with Corey sitting and josh not showing up as he's done, we wowed the Jays. Not to anger anyone but it looked like we play much of this game without a PG. Still the 5 on the floor excelled in the 2nd half. Five kids just playing hard.

I always thought we had the talent for a S16 or maybe an E 8 run. Surely, after watching and listening, we're all of that.

I don't know how we'll do in NYC with NOVA. Defense will be the key.

Doc, were u plying him w drinks? Seems like he was overpleasing you. Ways to go to become F4 good. Though I agree w all your other points. We could fall to earth vs Nova, they play suffocating D, and are UVa smart. Win that one and Id pull up a chair next to your boy Rasmussen. Few outcoached Daddy Mcbuckets, stuck w Norvell and kept Josh out long time.

MDABE80
12-02-2017, 01:28 PM
Ways to go in the season too..........for further development. Norvell played the game of his life and had lots of minutes to recover from the first half mess. He's got the goods though. Silas was just fantastic with his shooting . His defense , up close, is just amazing. Silas watches his man's feet and anticipates....unusual As everyone knows, I've been critical of Josh. I'm giving him a pass on last nights play. What was important though is that Silas, Norvell and a few others can run the team effectively. Tillie doesn't look NBA sized but , while he's not wide, he's compact and plays like an NBA PF. Tough customer strong on basics.

I hope he stays with us. Outside of Silas (who wasted a year of eligibility when Josh had a broken jaw) we have a very impressive nucleus for next year. We'll see how this year plays out but we have a very good team. By the end of the season (hopefully with no injuries) I think this is a high end team. I don't see why we can't run the table in the WCC. We get by Nova ( no small task) and we'll move into the top 10.

Maybe it was the seats?? lol..... All the CU guys with us thought we'd be Big East title contenders. All this aside, we sure could use some stiff competition toward the end of the year.

sullyzag66
12-02-2017, 02:09 PM
In the middle of rewatching the game. Interesting part at 1630 in the second half when norvell drives for the lay in and few calls Jeremy jones back to the bench from the scorers table where he was likely waiting to sub in for Zach. Im sure it happens more than I notice but thought it was kind of cool in hindsight given how well Zach did as the second half continued.

Few said in his post-game interview that Jones was coming in for ZN and he called him back. He also referenced a free throw that had he missed he was coming out.

bballbeachbum
12-02-2017, 06:15 PM
thanks sully and cscz28! made me rewatch the first 3 minutes of the 2nd half and track Zach. what I saw is below for anyone interested.

Great moment perhaps in the whole season for Zach to hit that layup and 1 and stay on the floor. The way he came out in the 2nd half, he earned it.

First, he had to find the courage to step out into 3 point land on either Foster or Thomas across from him and force the doggone dribble. He did not dare try it in the first half, don't know why for sure but would guess for fear of getting blown by. And both Foster and Thomas went off in the 1st half and looked happy to find Zach guarding them. And both are studs.

On Zach's first D attempt on the ball in the 2nd half at around 19:00 Foster blows by him and wraps around a pass to Krampel and Zach fouls him. But I thought it was cool! Zach sacked up and forced Foster to get by him. Foster did, but Zach hadn't forced anything 1st half. Would Zach do it again or back down now that Foster had just blown by him?
Next try at 18:20 was on Thomas, who got a screen that Zach went through and over instead of under, staying in front of Thomas with a helpful hedge, and Thomas was obviously surprised: he threw the ball right to Silas. So Zach did not back down.
Then Zach missed a 3
But, next D test at 17:38 with Thomas again, Zach runs him off and forces the bounce and Thomas can't shake clean running into interior help too and chucks an out of control brick off the backboard. Zach did not back down again.

then on next D possession, after Tillie layup from JP dime and with JJ waiting to check in (interesting he was first choice from Few), Thomas lost the handle with JP guarding him, the ball popped free to JIII and Zach was rewarded for running on the break with the and 1 layup and the rest is history, including next possession when Zach takes off the dribble from the wing and finishes off glass

the layup was the turning point in so many ways, but Zach had displayed a change already coming out of the locker room seemed to me, with the spine to challenge two guys defensively who made him look bad in the first half that he had not challenged before. That he came out on top is awesome obviously. He earned it.

Reborn
12-04-2017, 06:06 AM
Great post bballbumb: Norvell looks taller than 6'5" He's a very good rebounder like NWG was.

I watched the game over last night and I think that Creighton is a really good team. Their defense was as good as the Zags have seen. It really bothered us the first half. The Zags figured it all out at halftime, and were a different team in the second half. It was obvious to me that Creighton was determined to stop Josh and JWIII, and they did that. But in order to do that they had to give up too much, and Tillie, Melson and Norvell punished them. What people will notice about Gonzaga is they do have seven players who can score. This is a very talented offensive team. Not too many teams will score 90 points against Creighton.

Creighton also had two great guards, that's for sure. The Zags did a much better job the second half. The Zags have certainly seen some really good guards so far this year, and it's going to help them tomorrow night against Villanova. Prior to the Creighton game I didn't think Gonzaga had a chance against 'Nova. Now I do. I am beginning to believe that we will take them tomorrow. It's going to be a challenge for our younger guys to fly back to New York and play in MSG. I'm anxious to see how they play. I really hope that kispert will be ready to play. It will help a lot if he can.

Go Zags20

Zagsker
12-04-2017, 06:15 AM
Great post bballbumb: Norvell looks taller than 6'5" He's a very good rebounder like NWG was.

I watched the game over last night and I think that Creighton is a really good team. Their defense was as good as the Zags have seen. It really bothered us the first half. The Zags figured it all out at halftime, and were a different team in the second half. It was obvious to me that Creighton was determined to stop Josh and JWIII, and they did that. But in order to do that they had to give up too much, and Tillie, Melson and Norvell punished them. What people will notice about Gonzaga is they do have seven players who can score. This is a very talented offensive team. Not too many teams will score 90 points against Creighton.

Creighton also had two great guards, that's for sure. The Zags did a much better job the second half. The Zags have certainly seen some really good guards so far this year, and it's going to help them tomorrow night against Villanova. Prior to the Creighton game I didn't think Gonzaga had a chance against 'Nova. Now I do. I am beginning to believe that we will take them tomorrow. It's going to be a challenge for our younger guys to fly back to New York and play in MSG. I'm anxious to see how they play. I really hope that kispert will be ready to play. It will help a lot if he can.

Go Zags20

Why?

WallaWallaZag
12-04-2017, 06:45 AM
Why?

i don't think it will be an issue, but it is the first real road trip and will be first time facing what should be a hostile environment (pk80 was bigtime but it was basically in the zags backyard).

jazzdelmar
12-04-2017, 07:36 AM
i don't think it will be an issue, but it is the first real road trip and will be first time facing what should be a hostile environment (pk80 was bigtime but it was basically in the zags backyard).

Not so hostile. Nova will have a good crowd but the nightcap is the feature game and as old BE foes I'm thinking Cuse and UConn fans will cheer for GU/against Nova. And unaffiliated fans in NYC will pull for the underdog. Just outta habit.

TexasZagFan
12-04-2017, 07:50 AM
Great post bballbumb: Norvell looks taller than 6'5" He's a very good rebounder like NWG was.

I watched the game over last night and I think that Creighton is a really good team. Their defense was as good as the Zags have seen. It really bothered us the first half. The Zags figured it all out at halftime, and were a different team in the second half. It was obvious to me that Creighton was determined to stop Josh and JWIII, and they did that. But in order to do that they had to give up too much, and Tillie, Melson and Norvell punished them. What people will notice about Gonzaga is they do have seven players who can score. This is a very talented offensive team. Not too many teams will score 90 points against Creighton.

Creighton also had two great guards, that's for sure. The Zags did a much better job the second half. The Zags have certainly seen some really good guards so far this year, and it's going to help them tomorrow night against Villanova. Prior to the Creighton game I didn't think Gonzaga had a chance against 'Nova. Now I do. I am beginning to believe that we will take them tomorrow. It's going to be a challenge for our younger guys to fly back to New York and play in MSG. I'm anxious to see how they play. I really hope that kispert will be ready to play. It will help a lot if he can.

Go Zags20

One thing's for sure, we better lace 'em up and play 40 minutes. After Friday's game, we know that any of our first 8 players can drop 20 on the opponent. I would venture there's only a handful of teams in the NCAA that can say that.

Very few squads can pass the ball around like us. I expect us to burn Nova's double teams and get some easy buckets. I also think that J3 and Josh will rise to the occasion. Could be an instant classis, ala Florida-GU, this time a victory for the good guys from Zagland.

raise the zag
12-04-2017, 08:02 AM
Much mention of Norvell's ability, and much deserved.

I have been hard on him because of his flat-out lazy defense this season. Also, much deserved.

Why? Some will say, "freshman mistakes". BS.

Because when Norvell wants to, he can defend. He can also rebound at a high level, and take chances with driving to the hoop, etc.

Norvell is one of those guys who chooses, which is exciting, but also drives me crazy.

Tillie is occasionally the same way. When we're behind, or a Coach yells at them, or their embarrassed on the court, something lights a fire under them.

Then...they ignite. They play at 100% effort/hustle. When they do, they can play with anyone, pretty much do anything they want on the court. Yes, it requires more effort, you tire easily, and don't look or play "casual" or "cool" anymore.

Many players play at 100% and aren't even 50% of these guys ability/talent.

When Norvell, or Tillie want to crash for every rebound, sacrifice their bodies, play relentless defense, they can....and do.

Sometimes players with this talent don't even realize they are "coasting", essentially 'driving with traffic', until something triggers them. Now, its almost impossible to sustain it all the time, yet these two have shown they can turn it up a notch when they want to.

No other player on our roster has this type of switch, just not in their attributes or ability, but Norvell and Tillie certainly do.

Every player can 'step it up' or hustle more, yet when we get the extra gear from BOTH of them, well, we beat a Top-25 team by 25 in a single half.

ps. Rui is the next closest to this ability, yet still too lost a bit to fully realize it. Maybe later this year or next year.

rennis
12-04-2017, 08:07 AM
My thoughts are as follows:

After watching Gonzaga and SMC play this weekend, I'm pretty confident the kids in Moraga are going to struggle mightily against this team of Bulldogs.

bballbeachbum
12-04-2017, 02:16 PM
Reborn, thank you, we'll learn whole new chapter on the Zags vs. Villanova!

raise the zag, intensity is huge! and on the defensive stuff, also believe the younger players' idea and understanding of what is actually good pressure perimeter d at this level vs. what is not good is an adjustment they have to make, like an app they have to install; when they intensify, do exactly what with it? like figuring out what a good shot is on O at this level, another thing Zach has explored before our eyes to start the season


not tooooo too long ago the idea was generally to deny penetration and so send help and collapse your d to accomplish it, variations of this depending on your own team's d abilities, bigs, etc., it's still very useful depending on various things. Today, I wonder how much d is coached pre college on forcing the dribble and running shooters off the 3 pt. line, and the team d needed to do it well. Is there even a need for that defensive tactic in most high school/AAU situations? Guessing yes with no science to support that, but wonder how much D of that kind is used in high school/AAU, and if it's even used, then how it's taught. based on observations of freshmen defending in college it doesn't seem like it's much of a priority, but idk

I know we have some avid insightful high school observers who may be able to add more hopefully on what Ds they see!

In just watching the Zags evolve, the on ball D tactics in the M2M defensive packages Few uses against strong 3 point shooting teams, not sure it’s happening in high school much. Zags have been doing other things too like zoning effectively at times and also other stuff out of their M2M, but at least in the 2nd half they tried to do the M2M pressure perimeter d they've been perfecting now for a few seasons and it succeeded a lot