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View Full Version : After six games the Zags are 5-1. 'Would love to know what you think



Reborn
11-27-2017, 04:29 PM
The Zags had a double overtime loss to the 5th best team in AMERICA. And a single overtime victory against Texas. I remember how i felt prior to the Zags first game in pk80, against Ohio State. I was so excited because this is a new team in so many ways, and I knew that I'd finally know how good the Zags are. Now I know that they're damn good. And I'd like to echo what Mark Few said about his team, they can play with anyone in the country. Reporters and analysts are still about the game against Florida. Many have said that it could not only be the best game of the pk80 tournament but but the best game of the whole year. It was such a great reminder of what sports is all about, two teams fighting to the bitter end with all they had. It was a display of one great shot after another. I only had one disappointment, and that was that we didn't get to play Duke. But maybe we will see them down that wonderful road leading to the Final Four.

The Zags have so much to learn, and a lot of time to get a whole better. I think the biggest weakness on the team in the tournament was the fact that our bench players were unable to produce much, ACCEPT for Rui. But the good news is that there's a lot of time for them to do just that. I also thought that free throw shooting was bad. It nearly cost us the game against Texas. Yet, if my memory is still working, the Zags usually shoot free throws pretty poorly in November. It'll improve, I'm sure. I won't say anything about the turnovers against Texas. Everyone is aware of the weakness there. Kispert played good, but he did not play his best, especially in the area of his 3 point shooting. It was really off. I attribute that to freshman jitters, and I totally believe he'll be much better as he goes forward.

The biggest shocker for me was Norvell's play. I honestly thought he'd be a lot better than he was. However, I'm sure he will quickly learn how to play as a Zag.

Congrats to our whole team. You showed everyone what being a Zag is all about. I look forward to the rest of the year and watching you all each step of the way.

Zagricultural
11-27-2017, 05:03 PM
I would've taken it in a heartbeat at the beginning of the season, but knowing we should've beat Texas and could've beat Duke makes it tough. What I'm really hoping for is a win vs. Nova and for sure not lose to Creighton.

Over-all I'm pleasantly surprised as this team has a higher ceiling than I thought.

Zagsker
11-27-2017, 05:14 PM
I would've taken it in a heartbeat at the beginning of the season, but knowing we should've beat Texas and could've beat Duke makes it tough. What I'm really hoping for is a win vs. Nova and for sure not lose to Creighton.

Over-all I'm pleasantly surprised as this team has a higher ceiling than I thought.

Prepare to be happy...we DID beat Texas

MontanaCoyote
11-27-2017, 05:16 PM
I have this "feeling" that, right now, we're 1 top flight player short of going super deep in the tourney. Could be a guard, forward or big, I don't know. Maybe Rui will be that player? Maybe Kispert will get so good that it won't matter. Maybe Larsen and others will improve enough that the team, as a whole, will simply take care of business.

Just a feeling, nothing more.

Pleasant Peninsula
11-27-2017, 05:19 PM
I have this "feeling" that, right now, we're 1 top flight player short of going super deep in the tourney. Could be a guard, forward or big, I don't know. Maybe Rui will be that player? Maybe Kispert will get so good that it won't matter. Maybe Larsen and others will improve enough that the team, as a whole, will simply take care of business.

Just a feeling, nothing more.

The game against Villanova will be huge for #1 seed possibilities. I realize I'm getting ahead of myself here but with the talent on this team and the growth potential remaining I definitely think a 2-4 loss season is in the cards, and getting a Marquee win to go with the rest of that resume will go a long ways towards securing a seed at the upper end of the protected range (i.e. a 1/2 vs a 3/4).

TheOtherGreatOne
11-27-2017, 05:23 PM
Not loose to Creighton ? That is the only problem, playing not to loose the last 5 minutes. I hate it when they try to milk the clock. As long as they stay aggressive the whole game they can beat anyone in the country. I would love to see them keep the peddle to the metal and stay aggressive the whole game and when they get a team down go for the juggler and put them away. To me slowing it down and trying to milk the clock puts the team to sleep and takes away their aggressiveness, and some times they can't get it back when they have to. One missed free throw from undefeated is awesome, although they would not have been allowed to beat duke. In my opinion they can beat duke in a straight up fairly called game, but no team gets a fairly reffed game when they play duke especially when their coach [ however you spell his name ], starts yelling and cursing at the refs. Refs seem to be scared to death of him.

TexasZagFan
11-27-2017, 05:34 PM
I have this "feeling" that, right now, we're 1 top flight player short of going super deep in the tourney. Could be a guard, forward or big, I don't know. Maybe Rui will be that player? Maybe Kispert will get so good that it won't matter. Maybe Larsen and others will improve enough that the team, as a whole, will simply take care of business.

Just a feeling, nothing more.

My vote goes for "all of the above."

Kemo 1966
11-27-2017, 05:37 PM
From the Outside [GU community] ... Zag's have surpassed my early games expectations as far as productivity.... (I'll over look the 'end of game' melt-down vs Texas as a learning experience! There are many bright spots ... but RUI's break out game ... wow. You have the tools to go on ANOTHER run of the WCC. How quickly the new guys mesh...over the next 8 weeks or so..... will determine how far you can make a run in the NCAA's. IMO

BULLDOG#1
11-27-2017, 05:46 PM
After six games, I think this team is way ahead of schedule.

thoughts:
- team is lost without Perkins in the game. Melson can play the point and not turn it over, but the offense stalls without Perkins.
- Rui is a monster in the open court and has shown he can get some tough rebounds.
- Rui is occasionally lost on the defensive end.
- Novel is a huge liability on the defensive end - tough to get him meaningful minutes until he can play some defense.
- Larson is ahead of schedule and looks like he should be a larger part of the rotation.
- Tillie is great, pretty much what I expected -- he's showing a lot on the wing defense and out of area rebounding.
- Perkins is a rock and having a great leadership year.
- Williams is a monster, though I'm perplexed by the FT shooting.
- Kispert is the next great zag do-it-all glue guy - didn't expect that...
- Jones is a great athlete, but i don't share the 'defensive wizard' sentiment. He as exposed a lot in PK80, but in all, pretty decent.

In all, this team is TOUGH. Anyone watching the zags in PK80 would recognize that this is a solid top 10-15 team. Mental mistakes happen, as does hot shooting, but I'd be surprised if they don't run the table in the WCC. I watched some of the Gael's and they miss the defense of Rahon and Pinau a lot. They lost toughness -- maybe they can regroup (there's a lot of talent there) but from what I saw the zags would roll by 20, even in Moraga.

I don't feel as if this team peaked early - as some zag teams have in the past. I believe it's the opposite. As good as they looked, there's a lot of room for growth and I'm sure Few and co are dialed in on the problem areas. From what I've seen, this has the looks of a sure fire sweet 16 and possibly EE team.

I hope and expect to see the momentum continue and epic battles coming up with Creighton and Vill.

TexasZagFan
11-27-2017, 06:00 PM
These three fellows are in total agreement: this year's journey is off to a great start!

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1745_zpswbihzq6l.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1745_zpswbihzq6l.jpg.html)

TexasZagFan
11-27-2017, 06:10 PM
After six games, I think this team is way ahead of schedule.

thoughts:
- team is lost without Perkins in the game. Melson can play the point and not turn it over, but the offense stalls without Perkins.
- Rui is a monster in the open court and has shown he can get some tough rebounds.
- Rui is occasionally lost on the defensive end.
- Norvelle is a huge liability on the defensive end - tough to get him meaningful minutes until he can play some defense.
- Larson is ahead of schedule and looks like he should be a larger part of the rotation.
- Tillie is great, pretty much what I expected -- he's showing a lot on the wing defense and out of area rebounding.
- Perkins is a rock and having a great leadership year.
- Williams is a monster, though I'm perplexed by the FT shooting.
- Kispert is the next great zag do-it-all glue guy - didn't expect that...
- Jones is a great athlete, but i don't share the 'defensive wizard' sentiment. He as exposed a lot in PK80, but in all, pretty decent.

In all, this team is TOUGH. Anyone watching the zags in PK80 would recognize that this is a solid top 10-15 team. Mental mistakes happen, as does hot shooting, but I'd be surprised if they don't run the table in the WCC. I watched some of the Gael's and they miss the defense of Rahon and Pinau a lot. They lost toughness -- maybe they can regroup (there's a lot of talent there) but from what I saw the zags would roll by 20, even in Moraga.

I don't feel as if this team peaked early - as some zag teams have in the past. I believe it's the opposite. As good as they looked, there's a lot of room for growth and I'm sure Few and co are dialed in on the problem areas. From what I've seen, this has the looks of a sure fire sweet 16 and possibly EE team.

I hope and expect to see the momentum continue and epic battles coming up with Creighton and Vill.

IMO, Zach will be fine. This is his first serious game action in 18 months. Won't be long before he has a game when he drills 5+ treys.

He's a great kid...here he is welcoming the first member of the 2028 recruiting class! :lmao:

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg.html)

ETA: that's probably one of my top two or three pics from our visit to Spokane last summer. All of the players were like that, friendly and accommodating...good time had by all.

Goshzagit
11-27-2017, 06:47 PM
I have this "feeling" that, right now, we're 1 top flight player short of going super deep in the tourney. Could be a guard, forward or big, I don't know. Maybe Rui will be that player? Maybe Kispert will get so good that it won't matter. Maybe Larsen and others will improve enough that the team, as a whole, will simply take care of business.

Just a feeling, nothing more.

I concur with this sentiment.

On the flip side -- and not to be negative -- we are also 1 injury away from being a middling or struggling team, imo.

Let's just say, it was evident how imperative Perkins and/or Tillie or Williams' health or availability is for team success.

We haven't been as reliant on 1 or 2 players as we are this season.

In many ways, this is the most fun I've had watching a Zag team in years. My heart beats faster watching this group than any other, if I'm being honest.

I was just in awe and amazement last season, but this season, I root for these guys to win, deep down, to stay in the game, play well, injury free....maybe just noticing how much this squad wants to carry on the tradition, the accomplishment, the standard of being Zags, esp following our Title run last year.

I don't know, but I cringe more, but also smile more watching this group....and also worry more.

I realize how short of roster we have, yet the potential to be something big.

These guys deserve to stay healthy, and play these games. They lost NWG and Collins. We'd be Top-5 with either, maybe #1 with both (likely).

Point is, they are fighting, competing, rising to the level. Its amazing how J3 and Perkins were complementary players last season yet taking the college bball world by storm this season.

Its captivating. Its meeting our expectations, but surprising so many.

Like I posted and promised in September, this is a fun group to watch play. I want to watch them every night, see them compete. But also could disappoint us from time time to time, as we've experienced.

That's love, man.

75Zag
11-27-2017, 06:53 PM
Mrs. '75 and I are headed to NYC to visit Little '75 and catch the 'Nova game. I want the Bulldogs to be great this year, and I think greatness requires making the NCAA tournament and doing more than just winning a couple games. Beating 'Nova will be a great start to GU's run for the NCAA tournament.

Go Bulldogs!

Zaga
11-28-2017, 04:53 AM
I am with Montana C. on this one. But I was hoping for that player to be ZN but not so sure this year. I want to see Jesse get some time to see if he's the guy when JP is out. We have a ton of talent down low, we need the extra talent at point IMO.

zagnut2012
11-28-2017, 05:16 AM
I for one was ecstatic to see this team play, the way they did, against Florida this early in the year. It had such a March Madness feel to it. The Texas game is going to hopefully be a learning experience (coaching opportunity) for this young team, but a win none the less. The pieces are all there to make a deep run into the tourney. The team chemistry seems to be good and I am looking forward to another exciting year.

Zagnut 2012

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-28-2017, 05:31 AM
Great thread! So far I’m feeling really good about this squad and agree this team is already one of my all-time favorite Zag squads. Maybe it’s because they really are underdogs again in a sense; NWG, PK, Collins all got so much national media attention and accolades (rightfully so!) last year but nada for this group of Zags in any of the preseason or early season stuff I’ve read. If these Zags can stay locked in and take care of business this week ahead vs IW, Creighton and Villanova that will change in a hurry.

Creighton is no joke and will be very amped up as a road win vs ranked opponent gets them back into the top 25. Huge game for them; they have fantastic perimeter talent. Hopefully Zags can punish them with their size.

Tuesday night vs Villanovain MSG..,wow! How much Fun must this schedule be for these guys? PK80 then prime time national tv from Madison Square Garden. I hope these guys soak it all in and keep kicking a** and having fun. Love watching Ayayi and Rui especially when celebrating teammates’ success. I think all the talk of how much talent Zags lost and the lack of early season recognition has given this squad a huge chip on their shoulder..love it!!

GoZags
11-28-2017, 05:39 AM
I think all the talk of how much talent Zags lost and the lack of early season recognition has given this squad a huge chip on their shoulder..love it!!

This .... and the fact that EVERY WCC head coach (other than Bennett) has the Zags looking UP to the Mighty Gaels of St. Mary's in the preseason poll. Yes .... these Zags have a chip (smile).

Birddog
11-28-2017, 05:46 AM
This years edition is really fun to watch when they are clicking. I keep thinking they are a little like the '99 squad; a bit under the radar and different players stepping up on different occasions, not totally relying on just one guy. Rui has a little Westbrook in him (grabbing rebounds, his ability to go coast to coast and also to split defenders) and I think we've just seen a smidge of what he can become. This is gonna be a fun season. On the downside, I think we might see a couple of games that they inexplicably lose before finishing the season on a very high note.

strikenowhere
11-28-2017, 05:53 AM
5-1 is about where I expected them to be. I feel they need to split Creighton/Villanova if they want to remain in the running for a protected seed come March (and obviously not pull a couple of St. Mary's along the way).

Positives
----------
- Perkins 3 pt shooting has been outstanding
- Williams is a beast
- Kispert in general
- General toughness shown after Florida loss and near collapse to Texas
- Larsen

Negatives
-----------
- Williams FT %
- Turnovers
- Norvell (will chalk up to being a redshirt freshman and needing to get more experience)
- Lack of a backup point guard with Wade being sidelined


Additionally, I really was amazed by how writers & pundits thought St. Mary's was going to be the top dog. If you can't beat Washington St. & Georgia on a neutral court you don't have any business being in the conversation. Quite frankly I think they've dug themselves into such a hole that the only way out is the auto-bid at this point. My bet is they'll drop the Cal game as well and a couple of non-Zag losses in conference.

CDC84
11-28-2017, 08:18 AM
The team is much further along that I would expect, but I am still worried they may not be together enough and mature enough to beat Villanova and to avoid a loss at either SDSU or UW.

tyra
11-28-2017, 08:40 AM
They’re quite a bit better than most of us thought they would be at this stage, and boy is it fun BUT i think we are a tad ahead of ourselves. Two big questions in order for us to go deep in the tourney. 1) Will we stay injury free? (This is huge. Where would be without JWIII! Without Perk? With Tillie for that matter? 2) Can the subs come along? That all said, in the meantime we ENJOY and pray!

Markburn1
11-28-2017, 12:07 PM
Don't undersell Kispert. The kid made three NBA quality drives in the tournament. The first two were in the same game against Florida. The other one was straight up legit going right into Bamba's chest and delivering with strength. He was 5-10 from three his first two games and while 0-3 against Texas at least one I remember being one of those that was down and inexplicably popped out.

He will get even better as the season progresses. I thought he should have been the option on the play with seven tenths of a second left with Florida.

zagzilla
11-28-2017, 12:22 PM
That is the only problem, playing not to loose the last 5 minutes...I would love to see them keep the peddle to the metal and stay aggressive the whole game and when they get a team down go for the juggler and put them away...One missed free throw from undefeated is awesome, although they would not have been allowed to beat duke. In my opinion they can beat duke in a straight up fairly called game, but no team gets a fairly reffed game when they play duke especially when their coach [ however you spell his name ], starts yelling and cursing at the refs. Refs seem to be scared to death of him.

This has to be a GU Boards first-whining about the officiating of a game we didn't even play in. Pretty sad really.

Are we playing not to lose or not too loose in the last 5 minutes? Not sure how going for the "juggler" helps us win games-we aren't playing a bunch of clowns. Maybe if we put the pedal to the metal those crooked refs would let us beat Duke.

ZZ

sittingon50
11-28-2017, 01:16 PM
This has to be a GU Boards first-whining about the officiating of a game we didn't even play in. Pretty sad really.

Are we playing not to lose or not too loose in the last 5 minutes? Not sure how going for the "juggler" helps us win games-we aren't playing a bunch of clowns. Maybe if we put the pedal to the metal those crooked refs would let us beat Duke.

ZZ

The tricks that juggler could do with a ball!! Pistol Pete reincarnated!

amaronizag
11-28-2017, 03:17 PM
Zag fans understood that J3 was way under rated by the sports guru's at the start of this season. Now everybody knows what a stud he is. Our opponents will focus more on shutting him down. Sooooo, we need to step up our shooting from the perimeter. That's how FL beat GU. FL made 16 2's for 32 pts and and 17 3's for 51 pts or 83 total points off of FG's. GU made 28 2's for 56 pts and 10 3's for 30 points or 86 points total off FG's. FL made 7 more 3's than GU. Trading shots doesn't work if they're getting 3 points and we only get 2 points. GU made 5 more shots but only got 3 more points off field goals because FL made 7 more 3's than GU. FL made 8 more free throws than GU and that put them ahead in by 5 at the final score.

It's a given that we always have to play tough defense and foul less, but we also have to shoot (make) more 3's + make free throws to get wins against the big boys. Lets start cranking up the 3's Wednesday night and keep stroking it right on into April.

Hoopaholic
11-28-2017, 04:30 PM
Zag fans understood that J3 was way under rated by the sports guru's at the start of this season. Now everybody knows what a stud he is. Our opponents will focus more on shutting him down. Sooooo, we need to step up our shooting from the perimeter. That's how FL beat GU. FL made 16 2's for 32 pts and and 17 3's for 51 pts or 83 total points off of FG's. GU made 28 2's for 56 pts and 10 3's for 30 points or 86 points total off FG's. FL made 7 more 3's than GU. Trading shots doesn't work if they're getting 3 points and we only get 2 points. GU made 5 more shots but only got 3 more points off field goals because FL made 7 more 3's than GU. FL made 8 more free throws than GU and that put them ahead in by 5 at the final score.

It's a given that we always have to play tough defense and foul less, but we also have to shoot (make) more 3's + make free throws to get wins against the big boys. Lets start cranking up the 3's Wednesday night and keep stroking it right on into April.
Agree

Sad that some on the board thought he should sit and a replacement start over him SMH

Reborn
11-29-2017, 04:17 AM
[QUOTE=amaronizag;1341130]Zag fans understood that J3 was way under rated by the sports guru's at the start of this season. Now everybody knows what a stud he is. Our opponents will focus more on shutting him down. Sooooo, we need to step up our shooting from the perimeter. That's how FL beat GU. FL made 16 2's for 32 pts and and 17 3's for 51 pts or 83 total points off of FG's. GU made 28 2's for 56 pts and 10 3's for 30 points or 86 points total off FG's. FL made 7 more 3's than GU. Trading shots doesn't work if they're getting 3 points and we only get 2 points. GU made 5 more shots but only got 3 more points off field goals because FL made 7 more 3's than GU. FL made 8 more free throws than GU and that put them ahead in by 5 at the final score.

I'd say the Zags lost because of the freethrow discrepancy. The Zags really need to clean it up on defensive as they commit way to many stupid fouls. And we shot poorly from the line. I do expect the problem we are having when shooting free throws will get better, It always has. GU almost always starts the season shooting poorly from the foul line. Tillie has a big problem with committing stupid fouls. I'm not sure what a coach can do about it except to continue to talk to him about it. Collins had the same problem last year, and it certainly hurt us against UNC in the Finals.

Zagger
11-29-2017, 05:20 AM
Impressed with how tough this bunch is and how well Perkins is playing. I was a wee bit rattled by the WCC coaches pick of SMC winning the WCC. Now I feel the Zags have a darn good chance to win out through the regular season. The team’s goal of getting better game by game is walking the talk (if not sprinting). I’m VERY impressed with the attitude of the team and certainly feel Few & Co. are improving as well. I’m also impressed with how this Zag bunch is having fun - they look really excited to be on the court with one another and together as a group. Very cohesive bunch of guys. I suppose my personal biggest surprise is how much of an asset freshman Kispert is - and his potential. Cory & Rui, IMHO, are going to both be key factors in how often the Zags post Ws.

thebigsmoove
11-29-2017, 06:22 AM
I'd say the Zags lost because of the freethrow discrepancy. The Zags really need to clean it up on defensive as they commit way to many stupid fouls. And we shot poorly from the line. I do expect the problem we are having when shooting free throws will get better, It always has. GU almost always starts the season shooting poorly from the foul line. Tillie has a big problem with committing stupid fouls. I'm not sure what a coach can do about it except to continue to talk to him about it. Collins had the same problem last year, and it certainly hurt us against UNC in the Finals.

Turnovers, Free Throws, complacency on offense at times, and Defensive lapses. Those are our areas of concern and need to be worked out. I have 100% faith that this staff will have this team rolling through the WCC schedule and into march.

WallaWallaZag
11-29-2017, 06:38 AM
Turnovers, Free Throws, complacency on offense at times, and Defensive lapses. Those are our areas of concern and need to be worked out. I have 100% faith that this staff will have this team rolling through the WCC schedule and into march.

while i think defense will keep improving throughout the year, i have a feeling this zag team is going to turn the ball over more than we're used to seeing...against good teams anyways. perkins is great but will make a bonehead turnover at least once a game...doesn't really take away from his game as long as it doesn't happen in a key spot like texas. also don't think jw3 has the handles to really be a primary option against teams with size without turning the ball over fairly frequently...and this isn't likely to improve much (along with his free throws -- at this point, it probably is what it is).

thebigsmoove
11-29-2017, 07:34 AM
while i think defense will keep improving throughout the year, i have a feeling this zag team is going to turn the ball over more than we're used to seeing...against good teams anyways. perkins is great but will make a bonehead turnover at least once a game...doesn't really take away from his game as long as it doesn't happen in a key spot like texas. also don't think jw3 has the handles to really be a primary option against teams with size without turning the ball over fairly frequently...and this isn't likely to improve much (along with his free throws -- at this point, it probably is what it is).

Tillie, J3, and Rui combined for 15 of our 24 turnovers versus Texas. There is no reason big men should be handling the ball as much as they are. We need to retool that for sure.

baitcast
11-29-2017, 07:39 AM
I was worried after losing so many guys but things look very bright for us,we have a bunch of guys who are ready to leave it all on the court.....It will take a very good team playing a very good game to beat us and there are only a couple out there,I could not be more pleased.....GO ZAGS
Rob

Birddog
11-29-2017, 07:53 AM
Tillie, J3, and Rui combined for 15 of our 24 turnovers versus Texas. There is no reason big men should be handling the ball as much as they are. We need to retool that for sure.

Rui had 3 and Tillie 6. I'm almost positive that all 3 of Ruis were charging calls on made baskets and I think a couple of Tillie's were too. They both just have to figure that out. As far as J3 goes, I just don't remember. The TO's weren't necessarily because of ball handling skills or lack thereof. Still, 24 is way too many.

WallaWallaZag
11-29-2017, 07:54 AM
Tillie, J3, and Rui combined for 15 of our 24 turnovers versus Texas. There is no reason big men should be handling the ball as much as they are. We need to retool that for sure.

tillie and rui play a lot on the wings, but they'll get better as season goes along, especially the offensive charges...but if jw3 has to create for himself against good teams, will have to live with the fumbles...

amaronizag
11-29-2017, 07:56 AM
A couple of years ago during off-season forum debates, I repeated some of Ken Pomeroy's data showing that a teams ability to defend against the 3 point shot had only slightly more impact than free throw defense. Then last year happened. GU was super at 3 point defense and my attitude changed. I became a believer that 3 point defense was a real factor. And then this year happened, and GU isn't nearly as good at 3 point defense as last year, and reinforced my belief that 3 point defense is a significant factor. This year, our help defense seems to be leaving a lot of weak side shooters uncontested for 3 point shots. Don't know what changed, whether it's the system or the player recovery time, but it isn't working as well this year. If we can tighten that up, and make more free throws, we'll win more games and be a lot tougher to beat. Over all, I think we're looking good. I'm really happy with Rui's improvement and I'm expecting similar giant strides from Norvell and Larson with a little more playing time/experience. I would love to see both of them have a break out game very soon. Why not tonight??

TexasZagFan
11-29-2017, 08:00 AM
Rui had 3 and Tillie 6. I'm almost positive that all 3 of Ruis were charging calls on made baskets and I think a couple of Tillie's were too. They both just have to figure that out. As far as J3 goes, I just don't remember. The TO's weren't necessarily because of ball handling skills or lack thereof. Still, 24 is way too many.

24 TOs in a game will get you an early exit from the Dance floor.

Hoopaholic
11-29-2017, 08:15 AM
24 TOs in a game will get you an early exit from the Dance floor.

michigan state had 24 turnovers as well and blew out the national champion....just saying

EEzag
11-29-2017, 08:17 AM
24 TOs in a game will get you an early exit from the Dance floor.

JW3 sometimes shuffles his feet when in the post. This will be a problem all year. I'm surprised he hasn't had more offensive fouls called on him. I'm not saying there are a bunch of missed calls, he's just put so much work in and is so improved it's amazing. He and Tillie are amazing.

As to the PG depth issue, I think we might have to start involving the SF-PF as a point guard...sort of a point-forward. I think that's one reason Kispert is in so much, he GETS the offense and can run it at times. Reminds me of Bouldin a little.

On a side note: Does it seem like GU is the best at getting the opponent's players to 4 fouls and the worst at getting the 5th? Probably just my own opinion.

TexasZagFan
11-29-2017, 08:48 AM
michigan state had 24 turnovers as well and blew out the national champion....just saying

I hear ya, Hoop. Perhaps I should have inserted "often" between the will and the get.

All I know is the coaches have spoken of the need to cut down on the turnovers.

mgadfly
11-29-2017, 08:52 AM
I think the team is exactly where a lot of people thought they'd be. 5-1 and obvious top 20 type team. But with no signature wins and in desperate need of a good week.

For all the JW3 praise, he had 15 turnovers to 3 assists in the tournament. He had his best free throw stretch I can remember and still was only 14 for 21. He has a season Offensive Efficiency Rating that has improved to 106.1 (that's currently 9th on the team). In most efficiency categories he is still behind Elias Harris (pick any of his seasons for the comparison) despite the monster game against Florida. And there were people on this board thinking it was paramount to blasphemy to compare the two. In no way has JW3's performance (to this point) been All-American level play as some has predicted. I can name five power forwards who have been considerably better than JW3 this season off the top of my head. 1. Bagley, 2. Colson, 3. Bridges (I can't wait for this match up), 4. Murphy, and 5. DJ Hogg (maybe he is a small forward for TAM?).

In order to move GU from the 16 to 32 range of teams to the 8 to 16 range, someone needs to be a lot better than they've been. Not because we can't play with any team in America, but because if we are going to win three games against tournament level competition, we will need to be better. Florida is going to get better (for anyone in Orlando last year that remembers Egbunu's 4 blocked shots against us and impact on the glass that should be obvious) when they get their two centers back in January. Michigan State is going to get better as their players get healthy and return. Duke and Kentucky will improve as their freshman turn into almost-sophomores.

There is nothing wrong with being almost as good as Elias Harris. But some on here thought JW3 was going to be an All-American that elevated us to discussions that threw around the names of teams like Duke, MSU, Villanova, Florida, rather than discussions about St. Marys and BYU. It is early, JW3 could have more Florida like games than Utah State games, but someone has to get a lot better for us to be in the Elite 8 discussions.

My thoughts (setting aside unrealistic expectations that some had on here):
Perkins: Better than expected, playing great ball, and to me the most valuable player so far (without him we don't have a point guard).
JW3: Exactly what we thought we'd get. A very good player with a couple obvious weaknesses who is forced to play out of position.
Tillie: I love his game so far other than foul trouble. He is a more efficient version of JW3 statistically speaking but he needs to stay on the court.

Those three are the guys that will lead this team. But I've also been really happy with Kispert, Rui, Larsen, and Silas. Norvell, Jones and Wade have all under performed and are in danger of losing minutes to a tightened seven man rotation.

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-29-2017, 09:13 AM
I think the team is exactly where a lot of people thought they'd be. 5-1 and obvious top 20 type team. But with no signature wins and in desperate need of a good week.

For all the JW3 praise, he had 15 turnovers to 3 assists in the tournament. He had his best free throw stretch I can remember and still was only 14 for 21. He has a season Offensive Efficiency Rating that has improved to 106.1 (that's currently 9th on the team). In most efficiency categories he is still behind Elias Harris (pick any of his seasons for the comparison) despite the monster game against Florida. And there were people on this board thinking it was paramount to blasphemy to compare the two. In no way has JW3's performance (to this point) been All-American level play as some has predicted. I can name five power forwards who have been considerably better than JW3 this season off the top of my head. 1. Bagley, 2. Colson, 3. Bridges (I can't wait for this match up), 4. Murphy, and 5. DJ Hogg (maybe he is a small forward for TAM?).

In order to move GU from the 16 to 32 range of teams to the 8 to 16 range, someone needs to be a lot better than they've been. Not because we can't play with any team in America, but because if we are going to win three games against tournament level competition, we will need to be better. Florida is going to get better (for anyone in Orlando last year that remembers Egbunu's 4 blocked shots against us and impact on the glass that should be obvious) when they get their two centers back in January. Michigan State is going to get better as their players get healthy and return. Duke and Kentucky will improve as their freshman turn into almost-sophomores.

There is nothing wrong with being almost as good as Elias Harris. But some on here thought JW3 was going to be an All-American that elevated us to discussions that threw around the names of teams like Duke, MSU, Villanova, Florida, rather than discussions about St. Marys and BYU. It is early, JW3 could have more Florida like games than Utah State games, but someone has to get a lot better for us to be in the Elite 8 discussions.

My thoughts (setting aside unrealistic expectations that some had on here):
Perkins: Better than expected, playing great ball, and to me the most valuable player so far (without him we don't have a point guard).
JW3: Exactly what we thought we'd get. A very good player with a couple obvious weaknesses who is forced to play out of position.
Tillie: I love his game so far other than foul trouble. He is a more efficient version of JW3 statistically speaking but he needs to stay on the court.

Those three are the guys that will lead this team. But I've also been really happy with Kispert, Rui, Larsen, and Silas. Norvell, Jones and Wade have all under performed and are in danger of losing minutes to a tightened seven man rotation.

Is Wade “underperforming” or just injured?

TravelinZag
11-29-2017, 11:42 AM
Happy to be 5-1, although would have been better if the loss were to Duke, and close enough to be respectable but clear enough that even Coach K couldn’t keep the Blue Devils from feeling dismissive and overconfident if we meet again this season. Plus, a win over Florida would have been infinitiively more helpful than a win over Texas. (However, kudos to coaches for Ohio State and Texas for the jobs they are doing rebuilding, and to Coach K for having five freshmen playing well enough together to hold off Florida.)

JWIII’s free throws improved dramatically as he started putting a bit more arc under his shots. However, his turnovers are unexpected and inexplainable. Rui, Hansen and Norvell need more minutes to play key roles. Wade needs to get well and play within the next two games, or sit down and petition for a medical redshirt.

Biggest frustration: Zags inability to finish — at the rim, hanging on to rebounds they have both hands on, catching passes, etc. And as a team, building leads, then blowing them. Insufficient conditioning and strength training, or simply lack of focus and attention? Either way, curable.

Would be pleased to enter conference play with two losses at most. St. Mary’s losses and remaining OCC schedule mean they’ll probably need to win the WCC tourney to dance and secure two tickets for the conference to the NCAA’s. Ironic for the virtually unanimous pick to dominate the WCC. Guess the loss of a single key player had more impact than was apparent.

At this point, as good as we could hoped. The dance Streak not threatened this year, barring injury or illness!

Go Zags! Always a good ride!

mgadfly
11-29-2017, 12:47 PM
Is Wade “underperforming” or just injured?

Both? I would suppose that Charlotte was hoping for better performance from AMMO, Indianapolis from Emtman, etc... Injuries certainly impact a player's ability to meet performance expectations.

Markburn1
11-29-2017, 01:02 PM
"Guess the loss of a single key player had more impact than was apparent."

Two key players. Rahon is the obvious one. Pineau was almost as valuable with his defense, rebounding and glue factor.

Reborn
11-29-2017, 02:14 PM
I think the team is exactly where a lot of people thought they'd be. 5-1 and obvious top 20 type team. But with no signature wins and in desperate need of a good week.

For all the JW3 praise, he had 15 turnovers to 3 assists in the tournament. He had his best free throw stretch I can remember and still was only 14 for 21. He has a season Offensive Efficiency Rating that has improved to 106.1 (that's currently 9th on the team). In most efficiency categories he is still behind Elias Harris (pick any of his seasons for the comparison) despite the monster game against Florida. And there were people on this board thinking it was paramount to blasphemy to compare the two. In no way has JW3's performance (to this point) been All-American level play as some has predicted. I can name five power forwards who have been considerably better than JW3 this season off the top of my head. 1. Bagley, 2. Colson, 3. Bridges (I can't wait for this match up), 4. Murphy, and 5. DJ Hogg (maybe he is a small forward for TAM?).

In order to move GU from the 16 to 32 range of teams to the 8 to 16 range, someone needs to be a lot better than they've been. Not because we can't play with any team in America, but because if we are going to win three games against tournament level competition, we will need to be better. Florida is going to get better (for anyone in Orlando last year that remembers Egbunu's 4 blocked shots against us and impact on the glass that should be obvious) when they get their two centers back in January. Michigan State is going to get better as their players get healthy and return. Duke and Kentucky will improve as their freshman turn into almost-sophomores.

There is nothing wrong with being almost as good as Elias Harris. But some on here thought JW3 was going to be an All-American that elevated us to discussions that threw around the names of teams like Duke, MSU, Villanova, Florida, rather than discussions about St. Marys and BYU. It is early, JW3 could have more Florida like games than Utah State games, but someone has to get a lot better for us to be in the Elite 8 discussions.

My thoughts (setting aside unrealistic expectations that some had on here):
Perkins: Better than expected, playing great ball, and to me the most valuable player so far (without him we don't have a point guard).
JW3: Exactly what we thought we'd get. A very good player with a couple obvious weaknesses who is forced to play out of position.
Tillie: I love his game so far other than foul trouble. He is a more efficient version of JW3 statistically speaking but he needs to stay on the court.

Those three are the guys that will lead this team. But I've also been really happy with Kispert, Rui, Larsen, and Silas. Norvell, Jones and Wade have all under performed and are in danger of losing minutes to a tightened seven man rotation.

Don't count me as someone who thinks like you and whoever your "others" are. I think he is very capable of being an All-American. He is going to contribute more to this team than E. Harris did. Just my opinion. Honestly, it's really too early to say, but since you through your opinion in the ring I thought I'd throw mine next to yours/

thebigsmoove
12-01-2017, 04:57 AM
JW3 sometimes shuffles his feet when in the post. This will be a problem all year. I'm surprised he hasn't had more offensive fouls called on him. I'm not saying there are a bunch of missed calls, he's just put so much work in and is so improved it's amazing. He and Tillie are amazing.

As to the PG depth issue, I think we might have to start involving the SF-PF as a point guard...sort of a point-forward. I think that's one reason Kispert is in so much, he GETS the offense and can run it at times. Reminds me of Bouldin a little.

On a side note: Does it seem like GU is the best at getting the opponent's players to 4 fouls and the worst at getting the 5th? Probably just my own opinion.


Ive noticed the footwork issues with J3 as well. Ive also noticed Tillie likes to dribble outside the post a lot. During that Texas game 2-3 of his turnovers were him getting caught in the open court as the next pass on pressure and getting caught dribbling instead of looking for his next pass. Bilas commented on it. It wasnt just Offensive charging as alluded to by another poster. Ive also noticed at times some guys are picking up their dribble in weird spots. I think all of this is coach-able, i just wonder if its something that will get significantly better by march.

Zag Man
12-01-2017, 07:07 AM
I have this "feeling" that, right now, we're 1 top flight player short of going super deep in the tourney. Could be a guard, forward or big, I don't know. Maybe Rui will be that player? Maybe Kispert will get so good that it won't matter. Maybe Larsen and others will improve enough that the team, as a whole, will simply take care of business.

This is a very talented and entertaining team to watch. If Rui can become more consistent in his play, he could be the difference. We will need a consistent output from the bench, and that is why I really like Larsen. He is an intelligent and skillful player. If he can stay healthy, he will be a major contributor in the years to come. As for Mr. Kispert, the sky is the limit for that young man. He's going to be amazing!!

mgadfly
12-01-2017, 09:23 AM
Don't count me as someone who thinks like you and whoever your "others" are. I think he is very capable of being an All-American. He is going to contribute more to this team than E. Harris did. Just my opinion. Honestly, it's really too early to say, but since you through your opinion in the ring I thought I'd throw mine next to yours/

Um, what "others" are you talking about? I wasn't counting you in and I'm pretty sure nobody thought I was including you. For what it's worth. No problem with your opinion and I hope you are right. To date though, he hasn't been close to All-American.

Reborn
12-01-2017, 01:59 PM
Um, what "others" are you talking about? I wasn't counting you in and I'm pretty sure nobody thought I was including you. For what it's worth. No problem with your opinion and I hope you are right. To date though, he hasn't been close to All-American.

thanks for your reply I assume you're counting his game against Florida. You'll see more of what I mean tonight.

mgadfly
12-01-2017, 02:34 PM
thanks for your reply I assume you're counting his game against Florida. You'll see more of what I mean tonight.

I assume you saw Bagley's game against Florida, Texas, Indiana, etc... That's an All-American power forward.

Comparing JW3 to the #4 all-time leading scorer in GU history, the #2 all-time leading rebounder, a three time first team All WCC player, 1 time honorable mention, 1 time newcomer of the year, the player with the most points for a freshman in GU history, #7 on GU's all-time wins list, 1 time WCC Tournament MVP, a player who made an NBA roster, and has played for years professionally in Europe IS NOT AN INSULT. If we signed a five-star recruit and someone qualified said, "He's the next Elias Harris for the GU program" I'd think WOW! we must have gotten a great player.

To think JW3 is going to have a bigger impact on the program than that, leads me to believe you think he will end the season as an All-American, National Champion and lottery pick (because he doesn't have as much time to make an impact on this program as EH did). I hope that's true, but to me, if he is an Elias Harris for us this year, we have a chance to be a very special team because EH was a very good player.

Bogozags
12-01-2017, 03:11 PM
Still feeling bad for Melson, so we could be 6-0 but for one free throw...sheet happens and life goes on...

Go Bulldogs beat Bluejays

Reborn
12-01-2017, 04:38 PM
I assume you saw Bagley's game against Florida, Texas, Indiana, etc... That's an All-American power forward.

Comparing JW3 to the #4 all-time leading scorer in GU history, the #2 all-time leading rebounder, a three time first team All WCC player, 1 time honorable mention, 1 time newcomer of the year, the player with the most points for a freshman in GU history, #7 on GU's all-time wins list, 1 time WCC Tournament MVP, a player who made an NBA roster, and has played for years professionally in Europe IS NOT AN INSULT. If we signed a five-star recruit and someone qualified said, "He's the next Elias Harris for the GU program" I'd think WOW! we must have gotten a great player.

To think JW3 is going to have a bigger impact on the program than that, leads me to believe you think he will end the season as an All-American, National Champion and lottery pick (because he doesn't have as much time to make an impact on this program as EH did). I hope that's true, but to me, if he is an Elias Harris for us this year, we have a chance to be a very special team because EH was a very good player.

More will be revealed. The season is early. Pay attention to his play again tonight.