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Zagceo
11-20-2017, 11:15 AM
putting up lots of 3's with little success ...so far



They need to shoot the 3-pointer better if theyr'e going to pull off any upsets during this stretch. To date, Ohio State is shooting 28.3 percent on 3s, and at the time of writing this on Sunday evening, was No. 283 in the country in shooting from beyond the arc."I think we'll shoot it better from 3 for sure," Holtmann said Sunday. "We'll have games where we'll shoot it much better from 3. I believe that."
At the moment it feels like they're shooting too many 3s for a team starting the season off in this kind of slump. Especially considering the interior scoring advantage Ohio State has had in its first four games.
They opened with 18 attempts against Robert Morris. Then had 27 against Radford, and 28 against Texas Southern. They shot 3 for 15 on Sunday against Northeastern.
The Buckeyes have some capable, if not streaky, shooters in Kam Williams, Keita Bates-Diop, C.J. Jackson, Andre Wesson and Micah Potter. But only Bates-Diop (45 percent, 9 of 20) is shooting it well through four games.
"I think part of it is we have guys shooting from too deep, probably not the best shots," Holtmann said. "We've got good shooters doing that a little bit. We gotta clean that up in tape for sure. I want guys ready to shoot. We've got capable shooters."

5 thoughts on team (http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/11/5_thoughts_on_ohio_state_baske.html)

Zagceo
11-20-2017, 11:20 AM
Guess who's doing (Expert Analysis) on ESPN? Andrews DAD!

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/osu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2017-18/release/release_20171120aaa_gonz.pdf http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/osu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2017-18/release/release_20171120aaa.pdf

Zagceo
11-20-2017, 11:47 AM
from OSU buckeye planet post


as far as what few's plan for osu will be, i think it's quite simple:..... force the bucks into jump shots...... help on tate and kbd as much as possible, thereby making jackson, williams, and jallow prove themselves as set-shooters..... entice tate into taking an early jumper... and hope he makes it. tate with perimeter confidence is not good for us.

Goshzagit
11-20-2017, 11:51 AM
gotta assume we'll zone these guys?

their players are simply stronger/bigger (not taller) at every position, save Kispert.

They are a top tier rebounding team and use their muscle wisely. That said, their muscle bound bodies lose some finesse on jump shots. Besides one guard, they are not the best shooting team.

OSU has (4) bigs, all strong, who could get Tillie/Larsen/J3 in foul trouble quickly. They pound it inside and get a lot of off boards.

Instead of using our zone as a last ditch change of pace, or to slow down penetration, I'd like to see us employ more often than not. The zone could leave us vulnerable on rebounds though.

I have an inkling we'll be hard-pressed to defend them one on one, as they are a bruising type team.

Hoopaholic
11-20-2017, 11:57 AM
gotta assume we'll zone these guys?

their players are simply stronger/bigger (not taller) at every position, save Kispert.

They are a top tier rebounding team and use their muscle wisely. That said, their muscle bound bodies lose some finesse on jump shots. Besides one guard, they are not the best shooting team.

OSU has (4) bigs, all strong, who could get Tillie/Larsen/J3 in foul trouble quickly. They pound it inside and get a lot of off boards.

Instead of using our zone as a last ditch change of pace, or to slow down penetration, I'd like to see us employ more often than not. The zone could leave us vulnerable on rebounds though.

I have an inkling we'll be hard-pressed to defend them one on one, as they are a bruising type team.

zoning a dominating rebounding team usually leads to disasters

Zagceo
11-20-2017, 12:04 PM
...make some 3's against us and I'd think about Zone...don't get caught up in a lot of bad switches in MM..do better job hedging on screens

FlyZag
11-20-2017, 01:39 PM
On the Coach Few show today (radio), Few mentioned that OSU thumped Xavier in their secret scrimmage. Coach Few called Coach Mack (Xavier) for some insight. Mack said OSU handled them. This is the same 15th ranked Xavier team that went to the elite 8 and returned everybody. Just some words of caution for the upcoming game. Should be a good test.

Section 116
11-20-2017, 01:44 PM
Thanks Flyzag. For some reason I can never remember the Monday Coach Few show????

kitzbuel
11-20-2017, 01:59 PM
from OSU buckeye planet post

No joke. Make them take bad perimeter shots and deny the post.

DixieZag
11-20-2017, 03:27 PM
On the Coach Few show today (radio), Few mentioned that OSU thumped Xavier in their secret scrimmage. Coach Few called Coach Mack (Xavier) for some insight. Mack said OSU handled them. This is the same 15th ranked Xavier team that went to the elite 8 and returned everybody. Just some words of caution for the upcoming game. Should be a good test.

Ouch.

I'm liking this opening round match-up less and less. Falling into the losers bracket would be just awful as far as the schedule goes. OTOH, if we win, it might turn out to be a much bigger win than we woulda' thought.

I think we can be pretty sure of one thing. I doubt a single "T"OSU fan (other than Moms and Coaches' wives) knows we're playing this weekend. Even though we play Thurs, the focus will be on the football showdown with Michigan Saturday.

Zag365
11-20-2017, 04:15 PM
Anyone know where the refs are from for PK80? Given the description in the OP of OSU's team, how the refs call the game (and how fast the Zags figure it out) could be a factor.

bartruff1
11-20-2017, 04:50 PM
With neither Aaron or Jared eligible for this game....we got it...

Zagceo
11-20-2017, 04:56 PM
Anyone know where the refs are from for PK80? Given the description in the OP of OSU's team, how the refs call the game (and how fast the Zags figure it out) could be a factor.

listen to introduction of teams or look at box score and look up affiliation after game is best bet


The NCAA has been keeping information about referees under much tighter wraps in an effort to prevent "anyone" getting access to them before the game.

This becomes even more true during the NCAA Tournament.

They'll end up bringing 10 to the Final Four and then not disclosing who's calling versus who's backing up until the day before. The referees won't even know.

willandi
11-20-2017, 04:57 PM
listen to introduction of teams or look at box score and look up affiliation after game is best bet

"They'll end up bringing 10 to the Final Four and then not disclosing who's calling versus who's backing up until the day before. The referees won't even know."

Sometimes they don't seem to know during the game as well.

Zagceo
11-20-2017, 05:08 PM
Andrew Dakich Ohio States grad transfer from Michigan......don't get to say that to often.

DixieZag
11-20-2017, 05:34 PM
We've explored some full-court press defenses on our part - kinda new. Wonder if that's part of the plan in exploiting those "big" guys from OSU and maybe FLA (though they're long, right?)

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-20-2017, 06:29 PM
On the Coach Few show today (radio), Few mentioned that OSU thumped Xavier in their secret scrimmage. Coach Few called Coach Mack (Xavier) for some insight. Mack said OSU handled them. This is the same 15th ranked Xavier team that went to the elite 8 and returned everybody. Just some words of caution for the upcoming game. Should be a good test.

That news caused me to worry a bit, than I heard Seth Greenberg and Jay Williams both raving about Texas A&M tonight. They both picked them to win the SEC and talked about the Aggies great size and toughness. Maybe Coach Few and staff had Ohio State in mind when scheduling that scrimmage vs Aggies!? Zags well aware how big this PK80 tourney is and have known Buckeyes were their first opponent for a long time.

DixieZag
11-21-2017, 03:00 AM
Some info here: http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/112017aaa.html

willandi
11-21-2017, 05:21 AM
Some info here: http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/112017aaa.html

Interesting that they have the game time wrong on that page. They have it at 9 ET and 12 PT. Either they don't understand how time zones work or the quality of education at Just Another Ohio State University leaves something to be desired.

Zagdawg
11-21-2017, 05:41 AM
Thanks Dixie -- good stuff.

titopoet
11-21-2017, 09:37 AM
gotta assume we'll zone these guys?

their players are simply stronger/bigger (not taller) at every position, save Kispert.

They are a top tier rebounding team and use their muscle wisely. That said, their muscle bound bodies lose some finesse on jump shots. Besides one guard, they are not the best shooting team.

OSU has (4) bigs, all strong, who could get Tillie/Larsen/J3 in foul trouble quickly. They pound it inside and get a lot of off boards.

Instead of using our zone as a last ditch change of pace, or to slow down penetration, I'd like to see us employ more often than not. The zone could leave us vulnerable on rebounds though.

I have an inkling we'll be hard-pressed to defend them one on one, as they are a bruising type team.

Huh????
They have no one that matches JW3, he can match Micah Potter in strength but Potter will be hard pressed to match JW3 quickness and athleticism. Huge GU advantage on both ends of the floor. (OSU will have to double to stop him).
Tille easily tops Keita Bates-Diop on both ends. Again huge GU advantage
Jae'Sean Tate, being a senior and one tough hombre is over Cory on D but Cory is a better shooter. Slight edge to OSU for the fact Tate is a senior.
Silas and Perkins easily are better backcourt than Jackson and Jallow, being more experienced, and athletic.

The ability of GU guys being able to guard multiple positions gives GU the defensive advantage, (JW3 can guard in this game 1-5) There will be no issue being overpowered playing man to man. I do think Few will use some zone, as well as some zone press especially with Rui, is and they have to rely on freshman guard to bring it up through those long arms.

raise the zag
11-21-2017, 10:29 AM
Huh????
They have no one that matches JW3, he can match Micah Potter in strength but Potter will be hard pressed to match JW3 quickness and athleticism. Huge GU advantage on both ends of the floor. (OSU will have to double to stop him).
Tille easily tops Keita Bates-Diop on both ends. Again huge GU advantage
Jae'Sean Tate, being a senior and one tough hombre is over Cory on D but Cory is a better shooter. Slight edge to OSU for the fact Tate is a senior.
Silas and Perkins easily are better backcourt than Jackson and Jallow, being more experienced, and athletic.

The ability of GU guys being able to guard multiple positions gives GU the defensive advantage, (JW3 can guard in this game 1-5) There will be no issue being overpowered playing man to man. I do think Few will use some zone, as well as some zone press especially with Rui, is and they have to rely on freshman guard to bring it up through those long arms.

good post and excellent take/preview.

I like the idea of J3 and Tillie out-maneuvering these guys.

From what I've seen, TOSU is clearly stronger around the rim, but maybe less efficient and/or mobile.

willandi
11-21-2017, 11:19 AM
good post and excellent take/preview.

I like the idea of J3 and Tillie out-maneuvering these guys.

From what I've seen, TOSU is clearly stronger around the rim, but maybe less efficient and/or mobile.

What is TOSU? Are you referring to Ohio State University? There is no 'The" at the beginning, and, unless they do it for every other team, I won't do it for them.

They are JAOSU! Just Another Ohio State University.

titopoet
11-21-2017, 11:26 AM
good post and excellent take/preview.

I like the idea of J3 and Tillie out-maneuvering these guys.

From what I've seen, TOSU is clearly stronger around the rim, but maybe less efficient and/or mobile.

Remember Texas Southern was within 2 points of The Ohio State at the 6.29 mark in the second half. TS lost steam at the end mainly due to the Buckeye guards overpowering the smaller Texas Southern guards. That won't happen with GU. TS's game with GU was long over before the second half.

Don't get me wrong... GU will have to play hard and smart to win, but OSU will have to play harder and hope the Zags have an off night to pull the upset and it will be an upset if OSU wins.

LouisianaZag
11-21-2017, 11:47 AM
Some info here: http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/112017aaa.html

Thanks for posting, lots of good stuff.

upan8th
11-21-2017, 11:56 AM
If the rumor is true (it must be -- it was on the internet) and GU thumped Texas A&M in their "secret" scrimmage, can't see the Zags having trouble with any team's "physicality". A&M has a host of bruisers, & have been dominating their opponents with sheer strength & size. With true leapers like JWIII, Tillie, Rui & Kispert, can't see OSU winning the board battle. GU's at a 44% clip on 3's, Buckeyes at 28%. On paper it doesn't look close. Will Zags rise to the occasion on a national stage? Anyone got a legitimate reason why they won't? Opinion here is they'll be primed & the final score will reflect it. 86-73.

Worthington
11-21-2017, 02:02 PM
Huh????
They have no one that matches JW3, he can match Micah Potter in strength but Potter will be hard pressed to match JW3 quickness and athleticism. Huge GU advantage on both ends of the floor. (OSU will have to double to stop him).
Tille easily tops Keita Bates-Diop on both ends. Again huge GU advantage
Jae'Sean Tate, being a senior and one tough hombre is over Cory on D but Cory is a better shooter. Slight edge to OSU for the fact Tate is a senior.
Silas and Perkins easily are better backcourt than Jackson and Jallow, being more experienced, and athletic.

The ability of GU guys being able to guard multiple positions gives GU the defensive advantage, (JW3 can guard in this game 1-5) There will be no issue being overpowered playing man to man. I do think Few will use some zone, as well as some zone press especially with Rui, is and they have to rely on freshman guard to bring it up through those long arms.

Personally, I think the match-ups will be JW3 on Bates-Diop, Tillie on Potter, and Kispert on Tate. And I think you are severely underestimating OSU's front-court. ESPN has Bates-Diop ranked higher than Jonathan Williams on their draft board and it's hard to argue that he hasn't been playing better this season already with averages of 19.3 PPG 10.0 RPG 1.8 BPG and 2.3 made three pointers on 45%. He's more perimeter oriented than JW3 and should present a tough match-up for whoever has to guard him. Jae'Sean Tate has had a very strong start to the season as well and Kispert will have his hands full trying to keep him out of the paint. Tillie will have the clear advantage on Potter, but he's still not exactly a go-to scorer at this point in his development.

I do believe that we have the advantage in the back court and on our bench, but we'll need those guys to prove that they're better in order to come out on top. Bottom line for me is Potter, Tate, and Bates-Diop are one of the better front-courts in the country from what I've seen and I'm not counting on our guys outplaying them.

OSU_Buckguy
11-23-2017, 10:01 AM
from OSU buckeye planet post


as far as what few's plan for osu will be, i think it's quite simple:..... force the bucks into jump shots...... help on tate and kbd as much as possible, thereby making jackson, williams, and jallow prove themselves as set-shooters..... entice tate into taking an early jumper... and hope he makes it. tate with perimeter confidence is not good for us.

Ohio State fan coming in peace. I'm the guy who made this post. Full post here (https://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/threads/2017-2018-ohio-state-mens-basketball-official-thread.649288/page-33#post-2962143). Feel free to join BP and add to the discussion. We're a solid bunch of posters who enjoy a community without trolling.

Anyway, I see a number of posts here commenting about OSU's size. Despite what reads on paper, I wouldn't call us a big team. Kaleb Wesson is a hefty fellow and Potter has decent height, but neither is imposing. They play shorter than their sizes. Potter tends to get lost in seas of bodies. He doesn't rebound outside his area or dominate inside his area. Kaleb (his brother, Andre, is on the team, too) will clear space with his big ol' butt and has decent touch out to 15 feet, but he is not a dancing bear. He's dropped a lot of flabby weight over the last year. I hope he spends the next year building muscle.

Surprising to no one, Tate and Bates-Diop (KBD) are our stars. Tate can be an undersized magician off the dribble, especially near the basket. He's a savvy one-on-one nightmare. But he is a NASCAR driver. He doesn't know how to turn right. KBD is a tougher matchup for the defense, as he has length and is equally comfortable inside or out. Unfortunately, so far, he's also the only guy who's shown to shoot worth a lick outside of 15 feet. OSU inside 8 feet? Great. OSU outside 8 feet? Poopy diapers. Williams, our supposed gun as the two-guard, should be shooting a lot better from deep than he has.

As quoted above, I suspect Few's game plan will be to hedge hard toward Tate and KBD, forcing the remaining players into jump shots. If you make us prove ourselves with set shoots, the game is almost certainly yours. On the other hand, our greatest weakness is the point guard position. We have limited talent and even more limited depth. Starting point guard Jackson is a Juco transfer with an ugly shot who did shoot quite well toward the end of last season but has so far been interviewing for a brickmason's apprenticeship. Dan Dakich's son Andrew is the back-up grad transfer guard who will be over-matched by quick high-major guards. He won't at all probe a defense. My sole hope for him is that he doesn't turn over the ball. I don't see you guys pressing, so that is good for OSU.

Because we can't shoot (yet), zoning us would make sense. Sag everything toward the basket. The flip side of that is rebounders tend to be out of place, and the Buckeyes appear adept at exploiting that. Furthermore, Tate and KBD have the makeup for zone-busting. Tate flourishes at the weak spot of zone -- that is, the interior. KBD, too, but he will roam and shoot unlike Tate. If Tate is face-up with the ball outside of 15, give him a wide berth. It's like watching someone play pick-up sticks with oven mitts when he's out there.

As far as overall athleticism, OSU is just middling. There is only one player whom I'd call an athlete: Jallow. He's a 17 year old who reclassed and has been a breath of fresh air. He's that mature, rugged, do-anything spark that is destined to be our team captain next year and beyond. Beyond him, though? No, we won't wow you with jumping-jack dunks or emasculating blocks.

My fear is that Gonzaga will come out shooting hot from deep. You have five legit outside shooters. We've been both hot and cold defending three-pointers. And the Zags ain't no Northeastern, Texas Southern, etc. If our perimeter defense proves better than I expect, then I think we have a shot. If not, then I'll just hope for one of those so-called good losses.

Good luck tonight.

hushpuppy
11-23-2017, 11:20 AM
Thanks for the preview, Buckguy. It’s nice to get an insider’s view.

sittingon50
11-23-2017, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the post Buckguy. Please continue to visit over the year.

OSU_Buckguy
11-23-2017, 11:27 AM
Thanks for the preview, Buckguy. It’s nice to get an insider’s view.


Thanks for the post Buckguy. Please continue to visit over the year.

Appreciate the words. Happy to offer an outside opinion.

willandi
11-23-2017, 11:29 AM
Appreciate the words. Happy to offer an outside opinion.

Or an inside one, depending on perspective! LOL

OSU_Buckguy
11-23-2017, 11:37 AM
Or an inside one, depending on perspective! LOL

Blow up the outside world.