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View Full Version : Are the Zags ready for the PK80 tournament ?



Reborn
11-19-2017, 06:45 PM
I'll have to go with what Dan Dickau said. He's a lot better basketball player than me. He said the Zags are ready, and I believe him. My opinion of Dickau is that he's a good analyst. I like listening to what he says. He and many others felt that the game last night was exactly what Gonzaga needed to get ready to face Ohio St on Thursday. I've done a lot of research today of the teams we might play next week and I have to agree with Dan. Ohio St has played very well in the OOC so far and will be a tough opponent for the first game, and I feel that will prepare us to face Florida on Friday. Ohio St is not real tall but they will definitely be tough and athletic. They are also not a real good 3 point shooting team, shooting only 30%. For the game they are shooting 50% and averaging 86 ppg. They beat Texas Southern 82-64.

I think Florida will be kind of be built pretty much like Ohio St. Their ALL-American center 6'11" 265 pound John Egbuno has not been playing. I'm not sure if he's planning on playing Thursday. I remember him quite well from last year as he was really scary. They have a very good 6'5" transfer guard from Rich who's been playing really well, and they have their 6'1" point guard Chris Chiozza back who had a great year last year. I think Florida will handle Stanford but they will struggle a little. It will be nice to see Reid Travis, who plays for Stanford, as the Zags recruited him really hard a couple years ago.

And we all know about the Zags, Overall they've played good, and maybe better than expected at the beginning of the season. I will certainly be looking to see the Zags raise their level of play. They are ready to show all who watch or read about them just who they are this year. They will play with an intensity that we have not seen yet. It's been good see our freshmen play, and they are better overall than I expected. I have always expected a lot out of Norvell because he's out of Chicago and was one of the very best players there. I also really loved the videos I saw back a year ago. Kispert has already been a star freshman which is just incredible. And Larsen has shown us all he's really to contribute. I am really looking forward to see how they play against some very good opponents. Those four players we talk about all the time who are back from playing last year are ready to play their new roles. Like I said before I think they are ready to rock and roll.

One thing that I kind of expect to see is that these better teams most likely not double up Williams to start the game; so we'll be able to see how he plays. If he can dominate down low against one on one defense they'll have to double up and he will need to improve his passing out of the double team. Mostly I hope he can be more patient than he has been. He really is rushing his offensive game and is taking some poor shots. Patience my prince. Looking forward to see our Ninja Shooters back in action. They will definitely play a big part in the Zags success.

Go Zags111

gonzagafan62
11-19-2017, 07:55 PM
Thanks Bornie. Good calls. Go zags!

DixieZag
11-19-2017, 08:38 PM
My initial reaction was 'no.'

Then reading Dickau's assessment turned it into a "maybe."

I suspect that this early in the year, most teams are struggling with some of the same things we are, and that with respect to OSU, they likely haven't played anyone good, either. USU was "okay" - they'll likely win a lot of games, they made some open 3s, and made some crazy 3s. I just wished we finished better.

Our intensty will have to increase 2x. Tough for a fairly young team. But, reasons for optimism, I don't think JWIII has played a great game yet, and is due, Tillie is coming off his best game and should be confident, and Kispert will be playing in his first "real" games (games we could lose) and I hope to see max effort, which will be huge b/c he might just be our best overall player.

Good news, we'll see soon enough.

CdAZagFan
11-19-2017, 09:06 PM
Personally, I never think they are ready for these early-season tourneys... But Few has a way of getting his teams to rise to the occasion of these early season OOC opportunities.

Some things that still have me a little worried - JWIII being less efficient at Center then he would at Power Forward, the man to man defense confusion sometimes when switching or staying, the big-to-big passing that we have been spoiled with in the past, the lack of bulk on the interior when facing larger teams and rebounding in general, the depth and inexperience behind Perkins and JWIII if those two get in foul trouble... Most of these things I'm sure will improve as the season goes on.

Some things that have me excited about this team - the play of Kispert, Tillie's shooting, the overall 3-point shooting of this team (so many shooters!), Rui's athleticism and potential for growth, the lack of turnovers in the Utah State game, the potential of Larsen to affect the paint, Norvell's shooting and quickness, the response of this team to make some timely runs yesterday when things were looking pretty tight.

Overall, I am enthused about this team at this point - sure they need to grow, but so far its been pretty good. We'll see next weekend if they can grow more and take the next steps.

ZagDad84
11-19-2017, 09:15 PM
These are very difficult questions.

The answer is no, but we got to play them anyway. If you are in the Big 10 or SEC, a loss to GU in November means little in the grand scheme of things. Playing in these preseason tournaments helps them prepare their teams for conference play. However, when you play outside the Power 5 conferences, you don't get the luxury of playing with different line-ups, bringing your freshman slowly up to speed, etc. because you need victories in these games much more so than the teams from the power conferences.

Ready or not, GU will face OSU with a much bigger need for a victory than OSU needs. Is that incentive enough to push the effort to the next level, we will see. Similarly with Florida (likely), we need the victory more than they do.

Will we be a much, much better team in March than we are today? Certainly, unfortunately, we don't get the luxury of not worrying about the games in November & December as this is when we have to make our statement to the NCAA while the power 5 conferences make their statements in January and February.

Are we ready? Yes if we play 4 complete quarters on offense and defense, we will beat OSU and the likely game with Florida will likely be a nail biter.

If I could take a 2-1 record beating OSU and Florida and losing to Duke right now, I would. Could we do better, certainly. Could we do worse, even more certainly.

A week from now we will know.

ZagDad

krozman
11-19-2017, 09:18 PM
Dickau couldn't even pronounce Gonzaga correctly during the last game. Seems like a prerequisite for someone who actually attended the school.

Zags11
11-19-2017, 09:56 PM
Just cuz you played the sport doesn't mean you know the sport.

Some of the best hitting coaches were the worst hitters. So!e of the best have been the worse. I have no idea why I said this.


Anyways go zags

Zagricultural
11-19-2017, 10:15 PM
I've quietly watched the j-3 hype train this year. I'm beginning to suspect that I've been right all along. He's a terrific complementary player, but will really struggle as the centerpiece. He's just not built that way, and forces the issue way too predictably. Hoping the coaches find ways to spring him free, or I'm concerned about the tourney.

amaronizag
11-19-2017, 10:51 PM
J3 has struggled early this year shooting only 10/24 FG's. He missed a lot of little hooks and bunnies that fell at a far higher rate last year and they will soon start to fall again this year. He gets double and triple teamed so it's tough going in there, but the coaches will work it out. And we should be glad he's a magnet for bodies in the paint because our great 3 point shooters will do their work and run up big scores. We have lots of shooters so worries about our offense. The defense was weak in the first half Saturday, but I think our defense is solid, better than I was thinking it might be. I think we beat Ohio State and the winner of the FL/Stanford game. I've watched both Stanford and FL (on TV) this year and I think GU wins against either. Duke is a different story. That will be a challenge for sure, but on a given night, this early in the season, anything could happen. With the tougher competition at PK80, I think Few will shorten the rotation and the minutes for some players. Of course it all depends on match-ups, fouls, etc, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the starting 5 plus Larsen and Norvell start getting more minutes. Coaches, players, and fans will learn a lot from this tournament.
Two more days of work, then off to Portland. Can't wait.

MDABE80
11-19-2017, 11:50 PM
J3's not been doing well because the other teams sag or double him. Thus Tillie's done well with high percentage shots. Close in stuff. Put backs.this type of thing When it come to our offense, I suppose we're as ready as most after 3 games. Offense will improve with time.
Defense usualy wins these early games. We're holding others to 68.5 ppg. Not special . If we can get the defense ready, we have a decent change to win the first two. If we face Duke in the Final of our bracket, well.........

DixieZag
11-20-2017, 03:38 AM
Ready or not, GU will face OSU with a much bigger need for a victory than OSU needs. Is that incentive enough to push the effort to the next level, we will see. Similarly with Florida (likely), we need the victory more than they do.



I've said for years that this hurts us.

A program like Florida can have freshman/inexperienced players out there and the coach can let them make mistakes and force them to play through them, consequences and all - knowing that they'll have plenty of time for quality wins down the road.

These games are almost "must wins" for Few, at least for seeding, and maybe for placement (losing the lead to AZ two yrs ago). We can't let Rui, or Larsen, or Norvelle play through big mistakes and learn, b/c we have to win.

It hurts us down the road in March b/c other teams' frosh and new guys have played through that stuff and are more ready for big-time. For a long time, I thought it was one reason that Few had trouble getting past first weekend. Now I know it helps to have NBA-type players.

Zags11
11-20-2017, 03:48 AM
I've said for years that this hurts us.

A program like Florida can have freshman/inexperienced players out there and the coach can let them make mistakes and force them to play through them, consequences and all - knowing that they'll have plenty of time for quality wins down the road.

These games are almost "must wins" for Few, at least for seeding, and maybe for placement (losing the lead to AZ two yrs ago). We can't let Rui, or Larsen, or Norvelle play through big mistakes and learn, b/c we have to win.

It hurts us down the road in March b/c other teams' frosh and new guys have played through that stuff and are more ready for big-time. For a long time, I thought it was one reason that Few had trouble getting past first weekend. Now I know it helps to have NBA-type players.


Agree on all fronts. And yes it helps to have NBA players on the college level.

WallaWallaZag
11-20-2017, 04:05 AM
These are very difficult questions. The answer is no, but we got to play them anyway. If you are in the Big 10 or SEC, a loss to GU in November means little in the grand scheme of things. Playing in these preseason tournaments helps them prepare their teams for conference play. However, when you play outside the Power 5 conferences, you don't get the luxury of playing with different line-ups, bringing your freshman slowly up to speed, etc. because you need victories in these games much more so than the teams from the power conferences. Ready or not, GU will face OSU with a much bigger need for a victory than OSU needs. Is that incentive enough to push the effort to the next level, we will see. Similarly with Florida (likely), we need the victory more than they do.

in general terms this is correct, but teams like osu/stanford are probably going to be bubble teams at best, so any meaningful non-con game is important to them...beating zags could mean the difference between staying at home or going to the dance. for florida or duke, might make a single seed line difference...

gueastcoast
11-20-2017, 06:37 AM
I guess I'm the only person here who saw the Florida highlights against UNH, they sure as h*ll don't look like world-beaters to me - or didn't in that one, at least. I'll take our clunker over USU over that showing, where they were down mid-second half.

Reborn
11-20-2017, 06:40 AM
I guess I'm the only person here who saw the Florida highlights against UNH, they sure as h*ll don't look like world-beaters to me - or didn't in that one, at least. I'll take our clunker over USU over that showing, where they were down mid-second half.

and they were at home.

Reborn
11-20-2017, 06:47 AM
J3's not been doing well because the other teams sag or double him. Thus Tillie's done well with high percentage shots. Close in stuff. Put backs.this type of thing When it come to our offense, I suppose we're as ready as most after 3 games. Offense will improve with time.
Defense usualy wins these early games. We're holding others to 68.5 ppg. Not special . If we can get the defense ready, we have a decent change to win the first two. If we face Duke in the Final of our bracket, well.........

I really agree Abe. I definitely felt that the defense would be the key in the early going this year, and that I felt it would be good because of the guys back from last year. You can see how complex Gonzaga's defense is because the freshmen are making freshmen mistakes. But, like you say it's very early in the season and all the teams will most likely NOT be at their peak. I give a slight edge to Duke because they've played a team like Michigan State already and beat them. However, if the Zags can get to the finals I believe they could beat Duke because for once Duke will be playing out West in Portland. Gonzaga is certainly not liked in North Carolina, and believe me Duke is not liked out west in Portland or Seattle. If we get to play Duke that game will be rockin.

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-20-2017, 06:49 AM
I think Zags are ready for PK80 but the college hoops writers at NCAA.com definitely are not! Their preview of PK80 says possible title game matchup of Duke vs UNC or Duke vs Michigan State. No, not possible. Pretty poor job by NCAA.com:
http://https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ncaa.com/amp/news/basketball-men/article/2017-11-19/college-basketball-tournament-previews-what-watch-pk80-maui (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ncaa.com/amp/news/basketball-men/article/2017-11-19/college-basketball-tournament-previews-what-watch-pk80-maui)

avid-zag-fan
11-20-2017, 06:55 AM
I don't think we're ready yet. I watched the Utah State game again, looking specifically at out defensive rotation. The new additions to our playing rotation are still struggling. Our best lineup has W3 and Larsen together but Larsen had 4 fouls in 7 min, all freshman centers struggle with fouls. W3 had 4 fouls in 22 min, but I thought 3 of the 4 were marginal calls at best. We only out-rebounded Utah 40-36. Are we really a great 3 pt. shooting team? We shot 27.8%. That's what we want to hold our opponents to and they shot 40.7%. I believe we end up a very good team and this is a really fun team to watch. I watched Kispert's missed dunk a bunch of times. I thought it was really impressive and he was fouled as well.

WallaWallaZag
11-20-2017, 06:59 AM
i'm surprised at how many zag fans are overlooking ohio state and already looking ahead to florida...holtmann has done a good job with that team coming over from butler and while they aren't real tall, they have a lot of beef inside and pretty good athletes.

Reborn
11-20-2017, 07:05 AM
i'm surprised at how many zag fans are overlooking ohio state and already looking ahead to florida...holtmann has done a good job with that team coming over from butler and while they aren't real tall, they have a lot of beef inside and pretty good athletes.

I can't see any proof that fans are overlooking Ohio St. If you look at the thread about the game predictions I see fans believing it'll be a close game. a lot of posters see the Zags winning by less than ten points. Personally, I believe the Zags will win by more than ten points because they are that much better, Ohio St has always been a great team, and beat the Zags in the NCAA tournament not too long ago. The Zags will remember that. It was a great game, and Ohio St was just a little bit better. I don't feel that this year's OSU team is as good as that one back then. Zags may be better than the Zag team back then.

bartruff1
11-20-2017, 07:25 AM
Mark has had remarkable success in these early season tournaments and I suspect that will continue, but in the over all scheme of things, I don't think it is a big deal unless you are concerned about ratings or seeding....I am not...

IMO the success of the season depends in a large part on winning the Conference and most importantly the WCC Tournament ...

Regardless of seeding, once you are in the NCAA, it is the proverbial krap shoot and I am not aware if there is any strong correlation between your seeding and your success .... so I will enjoy the PK one game at a time , win or lose and watch the team progress...

WallaWallaZag
11-20-2017, 07:50 AM
Mark has had remarkable success in these early season tournaments and I suspect that will continue, but in the over all scheme of things, I don't think it is a big deal unless you are concerned about ratings or seeding....I am not...

IMO the success of the season depends in a large part on winning the Conference and most importantly the WCC Tournament ...

Regardless of seeding, once you are in the NCAA, it is the proverbial krap shoot and I am not aware if there is any strong correlation between your seeding and your success .... so I will enjoy the PK one game at a time , win or lose and watch the team progress...

It's a fact: Seeds 1-8 make up 85.2 percent of the Sweet 16. Seeds 9-16 make up 14.8 percent of the Sweet 16.
It's a fact: The top 16 seeds in tournament — of the teams seeded No. 1-4 — have an 83.6 percent chance of making the Final Four. Only 21 teams seeded lower than No. 4 have made the Final Four since 1985.
It's a fact: 75 percent of the national champions in the expanded bracket era were either a No. 1 or No. 2 seed.
Connecticut, which won the tournament as a No. 3 in 2011 and as a No. 7 in 2014, is the only champion in the past 10 years that wasn't a No. 1 or No. 2.
So yeah, your seed is a pretty good predictor of how you'll do in the tournament...

raise the zag
11-20-2017, 07:50 AM
At least one talking head views Ohio St as a F4 contender.

Dan Dakich picked the Buckeyes to reach the Final 4, believes they have some young NBA talent on the team.

OSU is BIG. Just big dudes. Not overly tall, but all very muscular/built/strong.

I've always wondered why our junior or senior Guards don't build muscle the same way other programs/players do? No biggie, just apparent how much thinner or lean GU guards are compared to Power 5 opposition.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/11/espns_dan_dakich_picks_ohio_st.html

BULLDOG#1
11-20-2017, 07:56 AM
Gu will be as 'ready' as most teams are at this time of year.

On the plus side:
- they did get challenged by a hot 3 point shooting team, and won
- made defensive mistakes in first half of tight game and corrected them at halftime
- GU has Perkins, JWIII, and Melson, who have all been on the biggest stage
- Tillie clearly looks ready for prime time
- despite some jittery play, they've kept the to's down

So, I like their chances against THE OSU and if they're lucky enough to get the win, I like their chances against Florida/Stanford.

First half of Utah State game wasn't pretty, but it wasn't THAT ugly. This is a solid team with pieces to be a high level rebounding, shooting, and defensive team... and those pieces are coming together sooner than expected. PK80 will be a challenge, but I expect them to show well, win or lose.

WallaWallaZag
11-20-2017, 08:00 AM
At least one talking head views Ohio St as a F4 contender.
Dan Dakich picked the Buckeyes to reach the Final 4, believes they have some young NBA talent on the team.
OSU is BIG. Just big dudes. Not overly tall, but all very muscular/built/strong.
I've always wondered why our junior or senior Guards don't build muscle the same way other programs/players do? No biggie, just apparent how much thinner or lean GU guards are compared to Power 5 opposition.
http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/11/espns_dan_dakich_picks_ohio_st.html

i have absolutely no proof or actual analysis to back this, but based on experience i would venture to say that in general the muscle-bound guys tend to be poorer shooters compared to the skinny dudes...zag system needs shooters.

willandi
11-20-2017, 08:00 AM
Gu will be as 'ready' as most teams are at this time of year.

On the plus side:
- they did get challenged by a hot 3 point shooting team, and won
- made defensive mistakes in first half of tight game and corrected them at halftime
- GU has Perkins, JWIII, and Melson, who have all been on the biggest stage
- Tillie clearly looks ready for prime time
- despite some jittery play, they've kept the to's down

So, I like their chances against THE OSU and if they're lucky enough to get the win, I like their chances against Florida/Stanford.

First half of Utah State game wasn't pretty, but it wasn't THAT ugly. This is a solid team with pieces to be a high level rebounding, shooting, and defensive team... and those pieces are coming together sooner than expected. PK80 will be a challenge, but I expect them to show well, win or lose.

I agree with thsi. GU has faced a hot shooting 3 pt team (which OSU is not) and a team with quick guards. They have handled both.

They outscored OSU in the 1 common opponent, and actually have more size than OSU.

I expect a good game, but expect the Zags to slowly pull away...until they put the defensive pedal down and have a leap of space.

zag67
11-20-2017, 08:02 AM
I think when you watch the games, like has been said W3 was dbl and triple teamed. He was fouled many times that were not called and he has had many ticky tack fouls called on him (so did Larsen). They just have to keep working on finding the open man. I really have enjoyed watching this team play. They work hard and have many different pieces to use. With our foul trouble Jones came in and gave solid minutes and I love his defense. The coaches are going to have their work cut outdoing the mixing and matching during many of the games. Defense, rebounding, passing, 3pt shooting, the right mixes and solid play etc. I think we are going to have growing pains and lose some we should not, but if they keep growing they will be ready for March.

gueastcoast
11-20-2017, 08:26 AM
Dan Dakich picked the Buckeyes to reach the Final 4, believes they have some young NBA talent on the team.


Dakich is such a Big 10 homer he may as well have written the Iliad. Not an illuminating data point.

kitzbuel
11-20-2017, 08:27 AM
Some good analysis of OSU leading up to PK80: http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/11/5_thoughts_on_ohio_state_baske.html

It mentions their 3pt shooting issues, shooting too many given their low percentage.

They are figuring out their PG position.

Looks like Zags need to defend the perimeter well again to prevent them from getting hot from outside and the Zags need to box out on the defensive end in particular. OSU with their O rebounding prowess will be more problematic that USU. That has to be fixed early.

willandi
11-20-2017, 09:05 AM
At least one talking head views Ohio St as a F4 contender.

Dan Dakich picked the Buckeyes to reach the Final 4, believes they have some young NBA talent on the team.

OSU is BIG. Just big dudes. Not overly tall, but all very muscular/built/strong.

I've always wondered why our junior or senior Guards don't build muscle the same way other programs/players do? No biggie, just apparent how much thinner or lean GU guards are compared to Power 5 opposition.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/11/espns_dan_dakich_picks_ohio_st.html

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGKxn4pUwAAFu9F.jpg:large

Zags sure are a bunch of skinny guys! LOL

bartruff1
11-20-2017, 09:36 AM
It's a fact: Seeds 1-8 make up 85.2 percent of the Sweet 16. Seeds 9-16 make up 14.8 percent of the Sweet 16.
It's a fact: The top 16 seeds in tournament — of the teams seeded No. 1-4 — have an 83.6 percent chance of making the Final Four. Only 21 teams seeded lower than No. 4 have made the Final Four since 1985.
It's a fact: 75 percent of the national champions in the expanded bracket era were either a No. 1 or No. 2 seed.
Connecticut, which won the tournament as a No. 3 in 2011 and as a No. 7 in 2014, is the only champion in the past 10 years that wasn't a No. 1 or No. 2.
So yeah, your seed is a pretty good predictor of how you'll do in the tournament...

That is cool....better teams get better seeds and win more games...when you consider thousands of games the averages work out....

Gonzaga has played in 20 NCAA Tournaments....with a record of 29 wins and 20 losses

They have lost in the first round as a 14, 6, 10, 7.

They have lost in the second round as a 9, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, 7, 1.......perhaps the best data...

They have lost in the third round as a 10, 12, 3, 4, 11

They have lost in the 4th round as a 10 and as a 2.

And of course last year....now, I am not going to get lost in the weeds of coefficients of uniformity or deviation or means or averages with such a small sample size.....so that looks like a krap shoot to me....it all depends on who is hot and who is not and matchups and some lucky shots or calls...

FlyZag
11-20-2017, 10:00 AM
At least one talking head views Ohio St as a F4 contender.

Dan Dakich picked the Buckeyes to reach the Final 4, believes they have some young NBA talent on the team.


http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/11/espns_dan_dakich_picks_ohio_st.html

Take his prediction with a grain of salt. Roster shows Andrew Dakich as a back up point guard on the team.

WallaWallaZag
11-20-2017, 10:14 AM
And of course last year....now, I am not going to get lost in the weeds of coefficients of uniformity or deviation or means or averages with such a small sample size.....so that looks like a krap shoot to me....it all depends on who is hot and who is not and matchups and some lucky shots or calls...

well, you did kind of ask if there was a correlation between seed and results...i would say the statistics say yes. zags have a history of both overperforming and underperforming, but i don't think it's a coincidence that the zags broke through the year they finished ranked number one in kenpom (i would guess an even better predictor than seeding).

WallaWallaZag
11-20-2017, 10:16 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGKxn4pUwAAFu9F.jpg:large

Zags sure are a bunch of skinny guys! LOL

i find it funny that tillie is hiding in the back and the only one with sleeves on...and is rui even wearing shorts?!?! hahaha...

bartruff1
11-20-2017, 10:47 AM
well, you did kind of ask if there was a correlation between seed and results...i would say the statistics say yes. zags have a history of both overperforming and underperforming, but i don't think it's a coincidence that the zags broke through the year they finished ranked number one in kenpom (i would guess an even better predictor than seeding).

Thanks for your data.....but I am still of the opinion that there are more important factors than seeding...

upan8th
11-20-2017, 10:48 AM
If Perkins, Kispert & Melson hit on 44% of their treys (about their avg so far), Norvell Jr attempts fewer than four from beyond the arc, and, as a team, GU totals only 25 triples, Zags win. Oh, and since THE osu seems weak from three (28%), why not open the game with the same zone D that stopped USU 3 point shooters cold in the second half?

Zags11
11-20-2017, 05:12 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGKxn4pUwAAFu9F.jpg:large

Zags sure are a bunch of skinny guys! LOL

Tiny.

kitzbuel
11-20-2017, 07:39 PM
I'll have to go with what Dan Dickau said. He's a lot better basketball player than me. He said the Zags are ready, and I believe him. My opinion of Dickau is that he's a good analyst. I like listening to what he says. He and many others felt that the game last night was exactly what Gonzaga needed to get ready to face Ohio St on Thursday. I've done a lot of research today of the teams we might play next week and I have to agree with Dan. Ohio St has played very well in the OOC so far and will be a tough opponent for the first game, and I feel that will prepare us to face Florida on Friday. Ohio St is not real tall but they will definitely be tough and athletic. They are also not a real good 3 point shooting team, shooting only 30%. For the game they are shooting 50% and averaging 86 ppg. They beat Texas Southern 82-64.

I think Florida will be kind of be built pretty much like Ohio St. Their ALL-American center 6'11" 265 pound John Egbuno has not been playing. I'm not sure if he's planning on playing Thursday. I remember him quite well from last year as he was really scary. They have a very good 6'5" transfer guard from Rich who's been playing really well, and they have their 6'1" point guard Chris Chiozza back who had a great year last year. I think Florida will handle Stanford but they will struggle a little. It will be nice to see Reid Travis, who plays for Stanford, as the Zags recruited him really hard a couple years ago.

And we all know about the Zags, Overall they've played good, and maybe better than expected at the beginning of the season. I will certainly be looking to see the Zags raise their level of play. They are ready to show all who watch or read about them just who they are this year. They will play with an intensity that we have not seen yet. It's been good see our freshmen play, and they are better overall than I expected. I have always expected a lot out of Norvell because he's out of Chicago and was one of the very best players there. I also really loved the videos I saw back a year ago. Kispert has already been a star freshman which is just incredible. And Larsen has shown us all he's really to contribute. I am really looking forward to see how they play against some very good opponents. Those four players we talk about all the time who are back from playing last year are ready to play their new roles. Like I said before I think they are ready to rock and roll.

One thing that I kind of expect to see is that these better teams most likely not double up Williams to start the game; so we'll be able to see how he plays. If he can dominate down low against one on one defense they'll have to double up and he will need to improve his passing out of the double team. Mostly I hope he can be more patient than he has been. He really is rushing his offensive game and is taking some poor shots. Patience my prince. Looking forward to see our Ninja Shooters back in action. They will definitely play a big part in the Zags success.

Go Zags111

Egbuno is still out until Jan recovering from ACL repair,

Reborn
11-21-2017, 07:55 AM
The closer we are getting to Thursday the more we are hearing how good OSU is. I too believe they'll be a really good opponent. They'll be tough for sure. They always are. But so is Gonzaga. I believe we have a really good team and will survive against Ohio St. We hear about how tough OSU is. Gonzaga is tough too. The Zags will not be a pushover. Zag fans will see their team play at a level that they have not seen yet. This team has a lot of pride. Those fans that seem to fear OSU because of their size, including the size of their muscles seem to also see Gonzaga as a small, unathletic team. Let me remind you that we too have some big, very athletic players with very good muscle size as well. Melson is very athletic and very muscular. He can guard anyone on their team. Hachimura also is very athletic and super muscular. In terms of muscular size, Hachimura doesn't take a back seat to anyone on OSU players. Larsen is also BIG and muscular. And Williams is 6'9 227. It will be a good match-up between him and Bates-Diop (OSU's top scorer and rebounder). I really look forward to this match-up. He will hold his own down low. Tillie is not built like the OSU Tough Guys, but I promise you he is as tough as any of them. His body size and toughness is very similar, imo, is very similar to Sabonis'. I look forward to his match-up with their center Potter (6'9" 240).

I see that Gonzaga has two advantages over OSU if the teams are equals (which I don't think they are). The game is a very late game. I believe the start time is like 9:15, which is 12:15 back in Ohio. The other advantage is that the they are playing out West in Portland. We will have the fans on our side. Our game with OSU is probably the best game of the day, and I'm hoping to see a good crowd cheering to the Zags.

WallaWallaZag
11-21-2017, 08:20 AM
zags might lose the battle of the beef with osu, but zags are more skilled everywhere with the possible exception of keita bates diop vs jw3

FlyZag
11-21-2017, 08:49 AM
I see that Gonzaga has two advantages over OSU if the teams are equals (which I don't think they are). The game is a very late game. I believe the start time is like 9:15, which is 12:15 back in Ohio. The other advantage is that the they are playing out West in Portland. We will have the fans on our side. Our game with OSU is probably the best game of the day, and I'm hoping to see a good crowd cheering to the Zags.

I don't think the start time matters. Remember these kids are 18-22 yrs old. Probably playing pickup all summer at mid-night. BUT, I do think you are right with your second point. Zags should own the fans in that game. I was reading the game notes and was reminded just how many of our previous players/coaches are from the Portland/Vancouver area. Including Silas Melson & coach B. Michaelson on the current team.

Reborn
11-21-2017, 10:57 AM
I don't think the start time matters. Remember these kids are 18-22 yrs old. Probably playing pickup all summer at mid-night. BUT, I do think you are right with your second point. Zags should own the fans in that game. I was reading the game notes and was reminded just how many of our previous players/coaches are from the Portland/Vancouver area. Including Silas Melson & coach B. Michaelson on the current team.

and it's a reasonable distance from Seattle and Tri-Cites and even Yakima.

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-21-2017, 12:24 PM
I’d love to see a breakout game from Rui where he plays more free-flowing, confident and knocks down some 3’s!!

raise the zag
11-21-2017, 12:50 PM
I’d love to see a breakout game from Rui where he plays more free-flowing, confident and knocks down some 3’s!!

Was thinking the same thing...about Tillie.

Killian has been awesome around the rim, and his rebounding has been a revelation. Not to mention his rim protection in transition as well.

I think he could become even more dominant on offense. He was a 50% 3pt shooter last season.

Has a smooth stroke from all over the court, and would like him to show off his deep ball and mid range more. Using post ups along the way.

Tillie could be a 18ppg scorer for this team.

He doesn't have to be but would love to see him open things up even more, show off his unmatched versatility.

Maybe this is the weekend?

TexasZagFan
11-21-2017, 03:13 PM
Apologies if it's been posted already, but the Zags are among the best in the country at preparing for games. They will be ready for whomever they play at PK80, the coaching staff will ensure that.

thespywhozaggedme
11-21-2017, 03:49 PM
Dickau couldn't even pronounce Gonzaga correctly during the last game. Seems like a prerequisite for someone who actually attended the school.

Yeah, he does pronounce it a bit oddly: Goan-zay-ga

DixieZag
11-21-2017, 06:16 PM
Was thinking the same thing...about Tillie.

Killian has been awesome around the rim, and his rebounding has been a revelation. Not to mention his rim protection in transition as well.

I think he could become even more dominant on offense. He was a 50% 3pt shooter last season.

Has a smooth stroke from all over the court, and would like him to show off his deep ball and mid range more. Using post ups along the way.

Tillie could be a 18ppg scorer for this team.

He doesn't have to be but would love to see him open things up even more, show off his unmatched versatility.

Maybe this is the weekend?

This.

Apologies to JWIII, but Tillie is our best player and it would be a great time to show it.

ZagsGoZags
11-22-2017, 06:41 AM
In the muscles photo, Tillie is not showing his muscles,
according to KenPom, Ohio State statistically would lose every game in PK80 except Univ. of Portland
https://kenpom.com/
I expect Florida will take Stanford down. Stanford lost to Eastern WA a few days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9zrKDCEu-Y&feature=onebox

Bogozags
11-22-2017, 07:03 AM
Coach Few and his staff are excellent at scouting and preparing the guys for their next game...

These games are in essence early NCAA games...win and advance...

I think we win the first two and then play Duke and that game will depend on how well we defend and not get into foul trouble...

Zagsker
11-22-2017, 07:06 AM
Gu will be as 'ready' as most teams are at this time of year.

On the plus side:
- they did get challenged by a hot 3 point shooting team, and won
- made defensive mistakes in first half of tight game and corrected them at halftime
- GU has Perkins, JWIII, and Melson, who have all been on the biggest stage
- Tillie clearly looks ready for prime time
- despite some jittery play, they've kept the to's down

So, I like their chances against THE OSU and if they're lucky enough to get the win, I like their chances against Florida/Stanford.

First half of Utah State game wasn't pretty, but it wasn't THAT ugly. This is a solid team with pieces to be a high level rebounding, shooting, and defensive team... and those pieces are coming together sooner than expected. PK80 will be a challenge, but I expect them to show well, win or lose.

This

Baldwinzag
11-22-2017, 07:08 AM
Coach Few and his staff are excellent at scouting and preparing the guys for their next game...

These games are in essence early NCAA games...win and advance...

I think we win the first two and then play Duke and that game will depend on how well we defend and not get into foul trouble...

This would be an amazing accomplishment for this group.

A dream scenario, yet could happen…

It would be a huge win for this season to advance to the Championship game, and at that point, it'd be all gravy.

Reborn
11-22-2017, 07:54 AM
Tiny.

Tell me that these guys will be intimidated by OSU as some fans think. I love this picture, and it shows how much work these guys put in, in the weight room. GU is tough folks. I am really looking forward to the match-up between JW3 and Bab- Dio. They are about the same size. JW3 was our best defender last year. Don't be too surprised if Melson guards Tate. I'd love to see that too. This is the kind of game that will establish the Zags as a team to worry about. I'm so happy we're playing them. If the Zags are to be a great team then they'll with this battle. This tournament will showcase our Zags and they'll certainly rise in the polls. I'm sticking with my 13 point victory. I am really hoping that they believe their "tough guys" can guard us one on one. If they guard JW3 one on one he will killl them. I'll take Tillie over Potter any time. Yes Potter does outweigh him. Does he out quick him? Or out tough him? One more day. I can't wait.

Go Zags111

Coach Crazy
11-22-2017, 11:21 AM
This

Yeah. Utah State showed every team what they have to do:

*You must hit a lot of 3's.
Gonzaga wants to control the pace. Take that away, and you still need to hit 3's to make up for the fact that you won't be as efficient. And you may very well not be able to control the pace the entire game against the Zags. 3's make up for some of that.

*You must be physical
Gonzaga has 3 bigs true bigs, but only one that can play like a 5 in the deep post consistently. You have to take away enough to affect the touch of J3 around the rim. As well, you have to get their bigs into foul trouble.

If you can't do those two things, you'll have to rely on GU having an off night, in order to win. That's going to be less and less likely as the days go on.

And even after a solid half of being physical, and shooting 3's...USU still lost by 13. And that's early on in the season.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DixieZag
11-22-2017, 12:17 PM
Coach Few and his staff are excellent at scouting and preparing the guys for their next game...

These games are in essence early NCAA games...win and advance.

Great insight Bogo.

Not sure about 2nd game applicability, but certainly first game, almost exact same circumstances.

TexasZagFan
11-22-2017, 04:41 PM
Yeah. Utah State showed every team what they have to do:

*You must hit a lot of 3's.
Gonzaga wants to control the pace. Take that away, and you still need to hit 3's to make up for the fact that you won't be as efficient. And you may very well not be able to control the pace the entire game against the Zags. 3's make up for some of that.

*You must be physical
Gonzaga has 3 bigs true bigs, but only one that can play like a 5 in the deep post consistently. You have to take away enough to affect the touch of J3 around the rim. As well, you have to get their bigs into foul trouble.

If you can't do those two things, you'll have to rely on GU having an off night, in order to win. That's going to be less and less likely as the days go on.

And even after a solid half of being physical, and shooting 3's...USU still lost by 13. And that's early on in the season.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

USU fans must have felt like this during that 17-0 run that put the game away:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rUn15HojltI/T98XGxU-YJI/AAAAAAAAJSs/_AOnstatv6Y/s1600/ola-gigante.jpg

Kong-Kool-Aid
11-22-2017, 04:55 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/pkinvitational/status/933484647043833856/video/1

PK80 - The Blazers predict who will win the tourney.. wat h for one person who picks the zags to win it all!

Zags11
11-23-2017, 03:46 AM
Tell me that these guys will be intimidated by OSU as some fans think. I love this picture, and it shows how much work these guys put in, in the weight room. GU is tough folks. I am really looking forward to the match-up between JW3 and Bab- Dio. They are about the same size. JW3 was our best defender last year. Don't be too surprised if Melson guards Tate. I'd love to see that too. This is the kind of game that will establish the Zags as a team to worry about. I'm so happy we're playing them. If the Zags are to be a great team then they'll with this battle. This tournament will showcase our Zags and they'll certainly rise in the polls. I'm sticking with my 13 point victory. I am really hoping that they believe their "tough guys" can guard us one on one. If they guard JW3 one on one he will killl them. I'll take Tillie over Potter any time. Yes Potter does outweigh him. Does he out quick him? Or out tough him? One more day. I can't wait.

Go Zags111

Zags aren't scared of anyone. Let's goooo! Whooo! Turkey, family and zags victory is what I love to see!

Go zags!

Reborn
11-23-2017, 07:10 AM
USU fans must have felt like this during that 17-0 run that put the game away:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rUn15HojltI/T98XGxU-YJI/AAAAAAAAJSs/_AOnstatv6Y/s1600/ola-gigante.jpg

This picture is perfect evidence that a picture is worth a thousand words.

I've thought and thought about this question all week. "Are the Zags really ready for this game today,as well as this tournament?" My answer is yes. And I hope that Texas Zag Fan posts this picture after the game tonight because this is how Ohio State fans are going to feel.

TexasZagFan
11-23-2017, 08:25 AM
This picture is perfect evidence that a picture is worth a thousand words.

I've thought and thought about this question all week. "Are the Zags really ready for this game today,as well as this tournament?" My answer is yes. And I hope that Texas Zag Fan posts this picture after the game tonight because this is how Ohio State fans are going to feel.

It took me awhile to figure out photobucket, all I have to do now is figure out to put them in an "album"...lol.

Here's a few of my favorites from our trip to Zagland in July.

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1769_zpsjt4ylf72.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1769_zpsjt4ylf72.jpg.html)

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg.html)

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1778_zpseucqfifi.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1778_zpseucqfifi.jpg.html)

willandi
11-23-2017, 08:30 AM
It took me awhile to figure out photobucket, all I have to do now is figure out to put them in an "album"...lol.

Here's a few of my favorites from our trip to Zagland in July.

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1769_zpsjt4ylf72.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1769_zpsjt4ylf72.jpg.html)

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1768_zpsobjgqpcn.jpg.html)

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q417/richkinley/IMG_1778_zpseucqfifi.jpg (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/richkinley/media/IMG_1778_zpseucqfifi.jpg.html)


Great pics! So glad you guys came up and had such a fun trip.

willandi
11-23-2017, 09:00 AM
I don't think the start time matters. Remember these kids are 18-22 yrs old. Probably playing pickup all summer at mid-night. BUT, I do think you are right with your second point. Zags should own the fans in that game. I was reading the game notes and was reminded just how many of our previous players/coaches are from the Portland/Vancouver area. Including Silas Melson & coach B. Michaelson on the current team.

I have been thinking about this since you first wrote it, and agree in part. They have been playing summer pick up games until Midnight, and later, but in the Eastern Time Zone.

Since school has started, they undoubtedly have been living a more structured life, practice and school are hard work (they do go to classes at JAOSU, don't they?)

This game is scheduled to start at midnight, their time, but that also is when the Stanford/Florida game should end. It will be at least 9:30 before it gets underway, 12:30 a.m. for them, and last for 2 more hours, unless they throw in the towel at half time.

I expect a hard fought game...to start, and then the Zags will overwhelm them. Maybe not, but that is what I expect.

Reborn
11-23-2017, 11:41 AM
I was looking at GU stats today, and they are not very good. The worst I've seen in years. It kind of freaked me out. Jonathan Williams is having a horrible season so far, and honestly I hope he can snap out of. I understand he's playing a new position, but I really thought he'd be leading this team in ever stat. I'm just shocked. Hope all this changes today.

Kong-Kool-Aid
11-23-2017, 12:05 PM
I was looking at GU stats today, and they are not very good. The worst I've seen in years. It kind of freaked me out. Jonathan Williams is having a horrible season so far, and honestly I hope he can snap out of. I understand he's playing a new position, but I really thought he'd be leading this team in ever stat. I'm just shocked. Hope all this changes today.

20th in Adjusted Offensive Efficiency, 27th in Adjusted Defensive Efficiency.

Previous years..

Last year we were 16th in O, 1st in D
Two years ago we were 22nd in O, 27th in D

So... if by years you mean 2 years.. I supposed technically you are correct.

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-23-2017, 12:52 PM
I was looking at GU stats today, and they are not very good. The worst I've seen in years. It kind of freaked me out. Jonathan Williams is having a horrible season so far, and honestly I hope he can snap out of. I understand he's playing a new position, but I really thought he'd be leading this team in ever stat. I'm just shocked. Hope all this changes today.

The Zags have outrebounded their first three opponents by a total of fifty boards. They're shooting 50% from the field and almost 40% from three-point range. They have an assist to turnover ratio of 2/1. The competition has been completely outmatched. These kids will be okay.

DixieZag
11-23-2017, 01:14 PM
Here's what I will be interested in seeing.

Last year's team was just so good that every game they'd jump out to huge leads (think Northwestern), and every game we could expect a second half mega run by the other team to get it respectable or even a loss (BYU).

I would rather this team just keep pounding away little by little, and keep the door closed.

Reborn
11-23-2017, 05:48 PM
I got my information from ESPN statistics for all 350 teams so far this year. Here is what I found there: Points per game=94th/ assists tied for 26 with 5 teams; FG%=tied for 47 with 3 other teams; FT% tied for 111: 3 pt %- 83; Rebounds 4th; Blocks 184th; steals 76th. Like I said, not too impressive for me. St Mary's is ahead of us in all areas accept rebounds. and honestly most all good teams are.

DixieZag
11-23-2017, 06:44 PM
I got my information from ESPN statistics for all 350 teams so far this year. Here is what I found there: Points per game=94th/ assists tied for 26 with 5 teams; FG%=tied for 47 with 3 other teams; FT% tied for 111: 3 pt %- 83; Rebounds 4th; Blocks 184th; steals 76th. Like I said, not too impressive for me. St Mary's is ahead of us in all areas accept rebounds. and honestly most all good teams are.

I believe everyone said that this young team w/o many guys used to playing with each other would take some time to develop. I wouldn't read too much into stats after 3 games. Let's wait until after the 6th game and then evaluate where we stand. :)