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Malastein
11-10-2017, 08:44 PM
I have a feeling this team only goes 6 or 7 deep with real contributors. We'll see how the season unfolds, but right now we can count on the starters(Kispert included) and Rui with possibly Norvell joibgin them. We need a lot of in season development from the rest of the roster if we are hoping for another deep tournament run.

CDC84
11-10-2017, 08:56 PM
I feel it is absolutely critical that Jesse Wade get healthy and get minutes, but this injury he's got is just not going away. I am very concerned about Perkins logging too many minutes.....that he might burn up by the end of the season. Last season GU didn't have a backup, but when NWG was gassed, Perks could take over and vice versa. As much as I like Silas, I just don't see him possessing much in the way of point guard skills despite his 4 assists tonight. I worry about being in a NCAA tournament game where Perks fouls out with 5 minutes left. They need to get Wade up and running.

Larsen also needs to get up and running. The frontcourt is thin, and as Fox said during the broadcast, the team doesn't really have a true center: and 7 foot, wide bodied big man. I still see Tillie as being a power forward.

I expect Kispert to start at small forward all season and log 27mpg all year. He's incredibly impressive. Very few freshmen have ever started for Mark Few from game one in their careers.

zagbeliever
11-10-2017, 09:01 PM
I wish Jesse had come in sooner and gotten his first Zag points

Zagsker
11-10-2017, 09:06 PM
Jones and Larsen will provide solid minutes

LouisianaZag
11-10-2017, 09:13 PM
I wish Jesse had come in sooner and gotten his first Zag points

Ye same here kept waiting for him to come in the game. I was really impressed with Kispert in the first half He has a bright future for sure.

btzag
11-10-2017, 09:50 PM
Pretty telling that Ayayi did not play, most likely a redshirt now barring a major injury.

CDC84
11-10-2017, 09:51 PM
We must continue to understand that Jesse hasn't played organized basketball in two years, and he has an injury. And he is a freshman. And he is a point guard in an offensive systems that demands a ton out of its PG. You can practice against the first team all you want, but it just doesn't compare to being under the lights and going at it 100% in a real organized game that matters.

That being said, I would've liked to have seen Jesse get more run tonight.

Mantua
11-10-2017, 10:17 PM
I’m looking forward to seeing Ayayi develop. Redshirting him may be a good strategic move for him and the team. He’s young and could use a little more muscle. I have a feeling that he could be a great Zag.

ZagsObserver
11-10-2017, 10:32 PM
Perkins
Melson
Kispert
Jwil3
Tillie
Larsen
Norvell
Wade

I count 8 once Wade is healthy.

ZagsObserver
11-10-2017, 10:35 PM
Perkins
Melson
Kispert
Jwil3
Tillie
Larsen
Norvell
Wade

I count 8 once Wade is healthy.

I forgot Rui. 9 with Wade, 8 without.

cggonzaga
11-10-2017, 11:13 PM
I forgot Rui. 9 with Wade, 8 without.

Youíre forgetting Jones who was pretty impressive tonight. Iím counting 9 but am hoping 10 with Wade. I agree with CDC we need a true backup point guard. Melson and Norvell can do it in a pinch but Iíd be a little concerned against a pressure defensive team. Iím not concerned about depth down low...yet. Larsen was bad in the first half but played pretty well in the closing minutes. Appeared he took some of the coaching well at half and got a little better tonight. I think JWIII, Tillie and Rui are studs. I donít remember a GU team that rebounds the basketball above the rim as well as this team does.

MDABE80
11-10-2017, 11:16 PM
Rui will get some time to support the bigs. Jesse is more than suitable at the PG spot if he gets physically better. Great support for the others. Norvell can play the 2 well.

ZagsObserver
11-10-2017, 11:25 PM
You’re forgetting Jones who was pretty impressive tonight. I’m counting 9 but am hoping 10 with Wade. I agree with CDC we need a true backup point guard. Melson and Norvell can do it in a pinch but I’d be a little concerned against a pressure defensive team. I’m not concerned about depth down low...yet. Larsen was bad in the first half but played pretty well in the closing minutes. Appeared he took some of the coaching well at half and got a little better tonight. I think JWIII, Tillie and Rui are studs. I don’t remember a GU team that rebounds the basketball above the rim as well as this team does.

Jones will not likely get significant minutes in big games and as the season progresses.

webspinnre
11-10-2017, 11:50 PM
I think Jones will be the burst of energy/intensity/help for foul trouble sort of role.

cggonzaga
11-11-2017, 12:13 AM
Jones will not likely get significant minutes in big games and as the season progresses.

I respectfully disagree. Not saying he’ll play 20mpg but he’ll get 8-10mpg I believe.
.

Malastein
11-11-2017, 01:27 AM
Perkins
Melson
Kispert
Jwil3
Tillie
Larsen
Norvell
Wade

I count 8 once Wade is healthy.

I count rose colored glasses. Even including Rui. I think there's more question marks with the players you're listing than most people are seeing. Not to diminish Jones, but he seems to be a hustle guy that will mostly push the starters in practice. Wade is TBD as are Norvell, Larsen, and to a lesser extent Rui. Yes, there's names of people I'll be rooting for, but I'm prepared to see an up and down season whose end potential lies in big in season development.

ZagsGoZags
11-11-2017, 04:10 AM
Ayayi. If depth is a potential problem this year, especially at point guard when Josh needs a rest and if Wade is injured, what is the thinking on Ayayi? Is he ruled out as a back up point guard? Do people believe next in line for backup point guard duty would be Melson and Norvell, because they are obviously better suited for the 1 than Ayayi?

If Josh P, or Wade get taken out for the season, I realize Ayayi could always be pulled out of redshirt status (if that is his fate this year) if it became essential for the team.

jazzdelmar
11-11-2017, 04:27 AM
Thus far the only newbie who has proven himself a star/starter/even rotation player is Kispert. Larsen still a big question mark, and Rui and Norvell still donít inspire. Lots of athleticism, sure, but also lots of hesitation on where they think they fit on the floor. Few has his work cut out knitting this group together by March.

Malastein
11-11-2017, 04:40 AM
My point isn't whether or not there's enough guys who could potentially play minutes, but more whether there's enough players who are ready to put up a level of quality for a deep run in the tournament. I think a good part of that is having a good enough regular season to earn a high seed. I think right now there's JW3, Tillie, Kispert, Perkins, Melson, probably Rui, and maybe Norvell. This team isn't as stacked with depth as last year, and I think it'll be more of an up and down year until/unless some of those other names step up.

I also can't help but feel that this would be a top 5 team if Collins had stayed since NWG would've probably come back to give it another go. Then again, if Sabonis had stayed for last season... There's endless what ifs, but Collins decision feels like a twofer with NWG. The success of the season may well come down to whether Ayayi or Wade AND Larsen can step up. And maybe if Rui, Kispert, or Norvell become capable of dominating. Feels like a lot of finger crossing...

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-11-2017, 04:43 AM
Jones will not likely get significant minutes in big games and as the season progresses.

Care to wager a friendly bet on that? Once he is 100% healthy Jones will be Zags best defender. I’m guessing he gets 10-12 minutes per game possibly more depending on how Larsen develops.

Larsen has great size, great hands but limited mobility. As Fox noted and I’ve heard said before, it takes a full year to get back 100% physically and mentally from the kind of knee injury he had. I hope Zags use Larsen sparingly and use those uber athletic lineups more.

jazzdelmar
11-11-2017, 04:58 AM
Care to wager a friendly bet on that? Once he is 100% healthy Jones will be Zags best defender. I’m guessing he gets 10-12 minutes per game possibly more depending on how Larsen develops.

Larsen has great size, great hands but limited mobility. As Fox noted and I’ve heard said before, it takes a full year to get back 100% physically and mentally from the kind of knee injury he had. I hope Zags use Larsen sparingly and use those uber athletic lineups more.

I don't see the Larsen-Jones correlation.

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-11-2017, 05:09 AM
I don't see the Larsen-Jones correlation.

Jones’ minutes most likely to come as a small 4. Lineups w some “post” combination with two of: Williams/Tillie/Rui/Jones on the court together are much more athletic than lineups w Larsen. With some combination of Perkins/Melson/Kispert /Norvell holding down the three backcourt spots, Zags enjoy athletic lineups that can switch everything on defense. That’s how I see Jones potentially becoming a more impactful player for this team than Larsen.

Coach Crazy
11-11-2017, 06:47 AM
I respectfully disagree. Not saying heíll play 20mpg but heíll get 8-10mpg I believe.
.

I think regardless of the minutes he'll get, it's whether or not he is viable depth. And what he did last night, I don't really remember seeing previously. To me, if he's your 9th or 10th man, you have stepped up as a program. He'd be starting or rotational at some schools.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bartruff1
11-11-2017, 06:49 AM
I thought Jones played very well last night....IMHO he will play meaningful minutes in tight games this season...

zag67
11-11-2017, 06:59 AM
I also thought that Jones played very solid minutes. Played defense and hustled on the boards. Against tough running teams I think that he can give 8-10 solid minutes to rest other players. I also thought Larsen did a very good job for being out of basketball as long as he has. By year end I think he will be a solid contributor. Norvell did many things well for being out all of last year. I think that the number of assists for their first game sets well for the year. I also thought that 20 some offensive boards says well for the hustle. They need to do better on the turnovers

Zagdawg
11-11-2017, 07:15 AM
I also thought Larsen did ok in his first real outing ---- 7 mins 9 pts and 7 boards ---- if someone told he that was going to be his line before the game --i would take it in a heartbeat.

demian
11-11-2017, 09:26 AM
I think regardless of the minutes he'll get, it's whether or not he is viable depth. And what he did last night, I don't really remember seeing previously. To me, if he's your 9th or 10th man, you have stepped up as a program. He'd be starting or rotational at some schools.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree 100% with this post and especially the last two sentences of the post. I actually liked all of the guys last night. Granted I wasn't watching extremely close because it was late at night on DVR when I watched it so I wanted to rush through the game quickly. I understand it is not as good as last years team but goodness sakes it is a pretty nice squad to me, with some real athletic kids who are simply going to get better each week. Go Zags

bballbeachbum
11-11-2017, 09:49 AM
depth looked good in that matchup. teams like that used to give Zags fits with all the dribble penetration but not so much last night with numerous Zag perimeter players who could stay in front pretty well led by the starting backcourt, and the help D didn't over commit and recovered quickly with all that length. Played effectively but differently than last year, as we've been anticipating would be the case. I know the rebounding numbers were good but playing a more helping/sliding D can make it more difficult to D board because box out assignments aren't as clear, will keep an eye on that and how the D evolves.

Anyway, next depth challenge will be against some opposing big lineup that tests that end of the bench, that one 7'2" kid for Davis named Reed was ok but overmatched and overwhelmed and he had no help in there, and the Zags punished TSU accordingly. I think Zags can cover that depth question too tho when challenged, we'll see.

We all saw why Kispert starts. hope Jones can stay healthy, fun to see him play finally, he looked like a contributor, nice size and athleticism. And Norvell missed some open looks but also dropped 5 dimes in 19 minutes and didn't pout or suck defensively. Rui is what he is right now, which to me is a big Net Gain. Yes, he's still coming along but he also can play. Just want Wade to get healthy

TravelinZag
11-11-2017, 12:05 PM
Pretty telling that Ayayi did not play, most likely a redshirt now barring a major injury.

As you said, barring injury within the next five games (like Perkins in the pre-season NIT a couple of years ago). Saving Ayayiís redshirt would be necessary just to have 10 healthy to practice as the season progresses. No injuries, and no flu.

Stay healthy, Zags; a great 17-18 ride is in the offing!

Malastein
11-25-2017, 01:56 PM
Thereís clearly 5 guys who are legit contributors and 3 guys who are inconsistent and unproven. Lot of talk about who the bench can become, but this team doesnít yet have a reliable bench.

bartruff1
11-25-2017, 02:20 PM
I think most realize the potential of the reserves...at least I didn't expect them to major contributors in a game like this, this early in the season ....this is November...remember....

Malastein
11-25-2017, 02:36 PM
There’s been a lot of counting the eggs before they hatch with the newcomers, but right now we have a long season to go. I think Norvell might end up as the most important reserve if he can run the offense with Perkins on the bench. Undoubtedly, but he bench needs to step up if we are to win the tougher scheduled games. Heck, we could be in for some surprising losses if the bench doesn’t dramatically improve.

Hogan
11-25-2017, 02:45 PM
I know we have some big Wade fans here, but from what I've seen, albeit a small sample size, the jury is definitely out. He looks very short, 5'11" to 6' short,and at the competition level the Zags are playing at he would need to be really fast and quick at his size. I haven't seen that. Right now I think he would be destroyed on defense and struggle to create anything on offense. Hope I am wrong.

zag67
11-25-2017, 04:46 PM
I have to say that saying that our bench cannot produce yet is hard for me to handle. Our bench is Rui, Larsen, Norvell, Jones, and Wade. First all of them except jones are equivalent freshmen in experience. Wade is still coming of an injury and is just starting to be able to practice and get a few minutes. Larsen and Norvell both have been out of action for over a year and as the year goes on they are going to be very solid and get better and better at both ends of the court. I also thought Rui and Jones gave solid minutes for plaing a team like Florida. Yes they made errors, but that is what these games are good for. This team should not be compared to last years final team. But I would like to say by year end they are good enough to compete to be in the sweet 16 or better. They are athletic and can shoot. They also play hard defense.

Go ZAGS.

Malastein
11-25-2017, 05:52 PM
I have to say that saying that our bench cannot produce yet is hard for me to handle. Our bench is Rui, Larsen, Norvell, Jones, and Wade.

Basically we don’t have a single proven contributor at this point. We’ll see who steps up by year’s end, but right now this team has basically no bench. Those 5 players do not look like they belong on an NCAA tournament team, but there is certainly time for them to develop. Hopefully, we aren’t still talking about not having depth in March...

DixieZag
11-25-2017, 06:23 PM
The bench is not ready for bright lights just yet. We have a few "blowout" games up ahead, and undoubtedly some blowout conference games. With my 0 college coaching wins to back me up, I'd suggest to Few that he put Rui and Norvelle in for LONG stretches and force them to play through their mistakes, gamble on the fact that the starters can get us back into and ahead in any of those games.

Without doing so, without significant time without fear of being pulled after one mistake, those guys can't get ready for March. That's always been a hardship on Few. With the lack of any opportunity for resume building wins in conference, he is forced to play to win tomorrow, no choice whatsoever.

Shaka on the other hand, playing in his conference, knows that even though a loss would just leave an awful taste in his mouth, he STILL can afford to let his young'uns play through the pain of getting schooled, b/c he'll get Kansas at home, beat Ok State, Iowa State, teams like that which get you tourny quality wins.

People can laugh at me worrying about an auto-bid, but if we lose tomorrow, we leave ourselves very vulnerable where a bad WCC road loss can hit out of the blue, SMC and BYU always play us tough, no matter how disgusting their OOC season is, no matter how bad their RPI.

Win tomorrow, we're in good shape, proud. Texas is a tourney team, that'll be one "ok" win, one "good loss" and one "good win" - we'll take it with such a young team. Lose? We have a problem.

spike_jr
11-25-2017, 06:48 PM
I agree Dix. Few knows he has to win now (my guess is this is why no Wade in meaningful minutes). If we go 1-2 in the PK80, lose to Nova, and the rest of the OOC being extremely mediocre (Creighton @ 33, SDSU @ 60, Ohio St @ 70 in KenPom), it could make selection Sunday/seeding quite interesting. I don't think we will get much credit for beating Incarnate Word, UIPUI, Howard, TX Southern, and anyone in the WCC not named SMC. You do get some credit for scheduling difficult games, but the bottom line is that you need to actually win some of them

Murphy outgo lifer
11-25-2017, 10:15 PM
There’s been a lot of counting the eggs before they hatch with the newcomers, but right now we have a long season to go. I think Norvell might end up as the most important reserve if he can run the offense with Perkins on the bench. Undoubtedly, but he bench needs to step up if we are to win the tougher scheduled games. Heck, we could be in for some surprising losses if the bench doesn’t dramatically improve.

I completely agree. Norvell is are only real option as a back-up PG. We have 6 or 7 people who can dribble the ball up the court, however, Norvell, Rui, and Perkins are the only player I have seen be able to create in the half-court. They can penetrate and create opportunities for others. Rui has the potential to be a great point forward but I do not know if he knows the system well enough at the moment to be in that situation. Norvell has great vision and passing skills and he can get into the lane almost at will. He has made mistakes but I think he is the best option for a back-up at the moment. His defense needs a ton of work though.

My thought at the moment is that our veterans are amazing, a lot better than I thought they would be and our bench is worse than I thought it would be. I know they are young and that was the concern this year but there are a lot of holes at the moment and the starters cannot carry us the whole year.

Murphy outgo lifer
11-25-2017, 10:36 PM
I know we have some big Wade fans here, but from what I've seen, albeit a small sample size, the jury is definitely out. He looks very short, 5'11" to 6' short,and at the competition level the Zags are playing at he would need to be really fast and quick at his size. I haven't seen that. Right now I think he would be destroyed on defense and struggle to create anything on offense. Hope I am wrong.

I think Wade is mostly just a shooter at this point. Not that we couldn't use the fire power off the bench but I don't think he is going to solve our back-up point guard needs. In his small sample size he mostly moved without the ball (which I love) instead of initiating the offense.

I really wonder what the plan for him is this year. I think I read an article somewhere or a statement stating that his shoulder subluxing every 3-4 practices and he has to rest his shoulder for 24-48 hours after each time. So basically he has to sit-out 1-2 days every week. I just think he should have redshirted. He hasn't played organized ball for 2 years and now he has to sit-out and miss practices and games every week.