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Zagdawg
10-17-2017, 07:24 AM
Gonzaga Guru‏ @GonzagaGuru 11m11 minutes ago
Parity in college basketball is in jeopardy with the Big Ten and ACC expanding to 20 conference games in the future. More power conference may follow suit. Will this erase 2 opportunities for Gonzaga to impress the NCAA tournament committee in a few years?

The trickle-down impact of 20-game Power 5 league schedules

"FanRag Sports reported on Sunday night that Big Ten head coaches voted in favor of going to 20 league games, with the expected starting point likely to be the 2018-19 season.

This comes on the heels of the ACC’s decision to expand to 20 conference games in 2019-20."

https://www.fanragsports.com/trickle-down-impact-20-game-power-5-league-schedules/

CDC84
10-17-2017, 09:01 AM
I have been talking about this for some time. It not only could effect Gonzaga. It's going to even effect the capability of high major teams to schedule home and home series with each other. I know, for example, that Alabama and UConn are going to be visiting Arizona in Tucson this season. The return games will be played next season or some time in the near future. In the future, these kinds of games might not get played. That would really be a shame. As much as I love conference play, I love seeing true home and home matchups involving big time teams from different leagues. Neutral site games can be boring. After a holiday tournament and a neutral site game, that could be it for a team like North Carolina in the future.

CDC84
10-17-2017, 09:18 AM
The WCC may need to eventually dump their 18 game league schedule (and go unbalanced) to create more space for non-league games. I certainly could see Gonzaga make a push for this. Perhaps BYU as well. Whether other teams in the league agree....well.....that's a different story.

CDC84
10-17-2017, 10:05 AM
Another consequence that somebody brought up to me......with a 20 game ACC sked, and with so few good non-league games being played, how is anyone going to be able to figure out how good the teams are??? Gonzaga in their run to the title game didn't play a single team they had played all season. League teams know each other left and right. There is, in some ways, more that can be learned about Gonzaga and Miami FLA if they played each other than if Gonzaga played St. Mary's and Miami FLA played Florida State.

seacatfan
10-17-2017, 11:10 AM
No easy answer. You'd like to see a conference regular season champion determined by everyone playing the same schedule, a true round robin. Even w/ 20 games that wouldn't be possible in any conference w/ more than 11 teams (which is...all of the Power 5 other than the Big 12 I believe). 12 teams is almost a manageable number, but the ACC and Big 10 are bloated well beyond that. Even a 20 game schedule won't get close to a round robin schedule.

seacatfan
10-17-2017, 11:10 AM
I would like to note that the ACC and Big 10 both played 18 conference games last year, so this is only 2 more games in league.

maynard g krebs
10-17-2017, 12:30 PM
I would like to note that the ACC and Big 10 both played 18 conference games last year, so this is only 2 more games in league.

Yeah, but that means they'll likely play two less high level opponents in nonconf. Right now I'd guess that most power conf teams play 4-5 quality nonconf opponents out of their 12-13 games, at most. They aren't gonna eliminate two of the cupcakes, which they need to play as developmental games, so most likely that two of the tough nonconf games go by the wayside.

sittingon50
10-17-2017, 12:46 PM
Cookin' the books....

Martin Centre Mad Man
10-17-2017, 01:03 PM
I actually don't think this should hurt Gonzaga. If the big conferences require twenty in conference games, but schedule their conference tournaments for a week after the WCC's, won't they finish up their nonconference schedule and start conference play at the same time as the WCC starts an eighteen game schedule?

seacatfan
10-17-2017, 01:31 PM
I don't think it's a matter of timing. I believe the NCAA mandates how many games you can play during the regular season. Adding 2 extra conference games will eliminate 2 OOC games.

tinfoilzag
10-17-2017, 01:36 PM
I actually don't think this should hurt Gonzaga. If the big conferences require twenty in conference games, but schedule their conference tournaments for a week after the WCC's, won't they finish up their nonconference schedule and start conference play at the same time as the WCC starts an eighteen game schedule?

I think the power conferences are only a few teams away from being able to hold their own 64 team tourney.

If they could lock up March Madness, then they could ensure that every power 5 school got at least 1 payday for being in the big tourney. The broadcast deals would be fantastic.

Other schools from the leftover conferences could play in the NIT giving them the sense of being involved.

cjm720
10-17-2017, 03:59 PM
All about the money. Sucks for us.

amaronizag
10-18-2017, 06:42 AM
"I think the power conferences are only a few teams away from being able to hold their own 64 team tourney. "

Sounds a little to incestuous to me. Can't believe the NCAA or any of the other schools would stand for that. But crazier things have happened I guess.

TexasZagFan
10-18-2017, 08:16 AM
"I think the power conferences are only a few teams away from being able to hold their own 64 team tourney. "

Sounds a little to incestuous to me. Can't believe the NCAA or any of the other schools would stand for that. But crazier things have happened I guess.

It's the first weekend of the Dance that gets the nation fired up. Contrast that to the college football bowl system, where teams with a .500 record get in. CBS & TNT would never buy it.

tinfoilzag
10-18-2017, 09:14 AM
It's the first weekend of the Dance that gets the nation fired up. Contrast that to the college football bowl system, where teams with a .500 record get in. CBS & TNT would never buy it.

It's a cynical view but I think that this is what a lot of the teams in the power conferences want. Having teams in the dance gets teams (and their conferences) paid.

Rating systems like BPI and RPI are stronger with larger sample sizes: team 1 played team 2 which played teams 3,4, and 5. If team 10 never got to play a team that played against Teams 1,2,3,4 and 5, its very difficult to measure the value of that team using standard metrics. Then it comes down to "the eye test" when deciding at large bids. Guess which teams are the most visible (hint: it's not Quinnipiac) You can't beat a team if you can't play them.

Power conferences benefit as a whole because of the weight given to match-ups between Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas. If the power conferences can silo themselves from the the rest of the field during the regular season, it skews the data towards teams that play top 50 teams, even when they lose. This is magnified by the recent change to the value of road wins. Cellar dwellers get a chance to have a huge win at a top school on the road. Top 50 schools aren't going to invite other smaller, out-of-conference powers into their house. Their schedule is tough enough already in the conference schedule.

TL;DR version: Schedule is a resource in college basketball. The power conferences will work to monopolize this resource to their benefit.

MDABE80
10-18-2017, 11:25 AM
In the past, GU was always slotted to win a reasonably easy WCC. It was has been the tough OOC teams that balanced the weak WCC victories. People still do think the WCC is a wimp league. We really need to find some games for the OCC. Hard ones. National TV ones . If we get squeezed out of the better opponents, it's trouble ahead. Weak league but strong OCC has carried us. Knocking out a difficult OCC schedule makes no sense and is self defeating.

bartruff1
10-18-2017, 12:05 PM
Makes perfect sense for Conference Teams to play home and home with the entire conference....

CDC84
10-18-2017, 12:37 PM
"I think the power conferences are only a few teams away from being able to hold their own 64 team tourney. ".

It won't happen because CBS and Turner call the shots, and they want Cinderella in the mix. 25% of US Office workers participate in a pool, and a great amount of the interest is based on picking upsets and getting people interested who are casual college basketball fans. The NCAA and BCS leagues are slaves to the TV guys. The tournament would lose millions and millions if the power conferences formed their own tournament. Plus, the basketball would be awful because you would have a bunch of mediocre teams in the field. The NCAA tournament is about the most perfect sporting event that there is. CBS and Turner like it as it is. As do the advertisers.

Bogozags
10-18-2017, 12:47 PM
In the past, GU was always slotted to win a reasonably easy WCC. It was has been the tough OOC teams that balanced the weak WCC victories. People still do think the WCC is a wimp league. We really need to find some games for the OCC. Hard ones. National TV ones . If we get squeezed out of the better opponents, it's trouble ahead. Weak league but strong OCC has carried us. Knocking out a difficult OCC schedule makes no sense and is self defeating.

Doc,

IF our WCC brethren do well with their OOC games, then that would help our RPI/BPI for the post season..."THEY" have to step it up...it will be interesting to see how USF, LMU, BYU and Pepperdine do during OOC. If they can step it up this season, then it might well create a trend for the future.

jake
10-18-2017, 01:00 PM
The WCC may need to eventually dump their 18 game league schedule (and go unbalanced) to create more space for non-league games. I certainly could see Gonzaga make a push for this. Perhaps BYU as well. Whether other teams in the league agree....well.....that's a different story.

If scheduling quality non-league games is going to get more difficult, how does this help? By giving more flexibility as to when those non-conference games are played? I wouldn't want to drop the balanced WCC schedule unless it's by adding quality non-conference games. And if we would then need to find more non-conference games, that seems like a bigger problem to me. Especially when you consider that an unbalanced league schedule could hurt our SOS even more. With so few chances in league play to get quality wins, taking away even the occasional game against a St. Mary's or BYU wouldn't make sense to me.

bartruff1
10-18-2017, 01:56 PM
There are plenty of cupcakes on Gonzaga's non conference schedule every year.....I suspect ESPN plays a major role in any marque non conference game...I am concerned that if you don't have the PAC12 channel, you may not get to see the UW game on TV....