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IMADEYOUREADTHIS
10-13-2017, 02:36 PM
Mark Titus is amazing, read his UNC findings column (https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/13/16471704/north-carolina-academic-fraud-ncaa-investigation-findings). He explains the UNC findings very well, and then adds this at the end.


I’m just saying that if you insist on finding proof that the NCAA gives North Carolina basketball preferential treatment, stop talking about this academic scandal and start talking about how the referees dicked over Zach Collins and Gonzaga in the 2017 national title game because, well, that was some legitimate bull####. (emphasis mine)

Zagricultural
10-13-2017, 02:57 PM
So true, and that just re-opened the wound...

bartruff1
10-13-2017, 04:34 PM
So true, and that just re-opened the wound...

Tell me about it, just like they screwed Seattle U. and Elgin Baylor in the National Championship Game against Kentucky in 1958...... I can really hold a grudge....

gu03alum
10-13-2017, 05:07 PM
Mark Titus is amazing, read his UNC findings column (https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/13/16471704/north-carolina-academic-fraud-ncaa-investigation-findings). He explains the UNC findings very well, and then adds this at the end.

(emphasis mine)

Well, darn, that made too much sense. I still want to be mad at NCAA.

zagfan24
10-13-2017, 07:13 PM
That was a great article. Thanks for sharing.

Zagceo
10-13-2017, 08:27 PM
Iím just saying that if you insist on finding proof that the NCAA gives North Carolina basketball preferential treatment, stop talking about this academic scandal and start talking about how the referees dicked over Zach Collins and Gonzaga in the 2017 national title game because, well, that was some legitimate bull####.

truth to power

KStyles
10-13-2017, 08:31 PM
Collins had uncalled basket interference in the Northwestern game. Not everything gets called, but it's part of the game.

Zagceo
10-13-2017, 08:41 PM
Collins had uncalled basket interference in the Northwestern game. Not everything gets called, but it's part of the game.

part of the game.....Zags had a top rated defense all year....in ONE half refs decided to call touch fouls.....ruined the game completely...as I walked out with other fans with no affiliation....said it was ugliest game they've ever watched in person because of refs

KStyles
10-13-2017, 08:56 PM
part of the game.....Zags had a top rated defense all year....in ONE half refs decided to call touch fouls.....ruined the game completely...as I walked out with other fans with no affiliation....said it was ugliest game they've ever watched in person because of refs

At ONE moment the refs were turned away and missed his hand in the basket...........totally changed the rest of the game.

I agree with your and your unaffiliated fans, it was ugly, but for a Coach like Mark Few, he's experienced it, he knows(and all of the fans know), sometimes you get an oddly called game. Until they have computerized cameras calling the games, you'll always have that. Sucks it was that late in the tourney for GU, but it's still part of CBB. Like I said, NW is still probably upset about the missed basket interference.

Zag_Dad
10-13-2017, 09:14 PM
At ONE moment the refs were turned away and missed his hand in the basket...........totally changed the rest of the game

Sarcasm...I hope. If anything “changed the outcome of the game” it was the Head Coach going nuts and drawing a technical foul. Other than that, the play was unfortunate but not likely a game deciding play. There was five plus minutes left in the game if I recall correctly.

KStyles
10-13-2017, 10:00 PM
Sarcasm...I hope. If anything “changed the outcome of the game” it was the Head Coach going nuts and drawing a technical foul. Other than that, the play was unfortunate but not likely a game deciding play. There was five plus minutes left in the game if I recall correctly.

It's not binary. Hard to say what isn't a game deciding play when you can't play the last 5 minutes over including the momentum for that basket.

maynard g krebs
10-13-2017, 10:46 PM
Collins had uncalled basket interference in the Northwestern game. Not everything gets called, but it's part of the game.

One missed call for two points doesn't equal two or three phantom fouls taking your best player out of the game for the better part of the second half, in my opinion. And by the end of March, Collins was the Zags' best player.

Kumquats and watermelons.

GeorgiaZagFan
10-13-2017, 11:27 PM
At ONE moment the refs were turned away and missed his hand in the basket...........totally changed the rest of the game.

I agree with your and your unaffiliated fans, it was ugly, but for a Coach like Mark Few, he's experienced it, he knows(and all of the fans know), sometimes you get an oddly called game. Until they have computerized cameras calling the games, you'll always have that. Sucks it was that late in the tourney for GU, but it's still part of CBB. Like I said, NW is still probably upset about the missed basket interference.

...the same game where the Zags had about a 20 point 1st half lead and only 6 fouls called against them and 9 against NW? ..and then the refs called it completely different with NW in the double-bonus less than 8 minutes played in the 2nd half? That ONE basket interference did not do as much as the lousy reffing at the beginning of the 2nd half that let Northwestern get back into a game ..a game they had NO BUSINESS being in if the refs had done the same job they did in the 1st half!!

Kemo 1966
10-14-2017, 04:07 AM
Let's talk "Reputation"...I'm an unbiased outsider...... latest 'ncaa gag on Carolina..... solidifies this SCORE"

Ethics Bowl................... GONZAGA 100 n.carolina U 0 (judges tell me, they didn't have a way to put up a NEGATIVE SCORE!)

CASE CLOSED!

IMADEYOUREADTHIS
10-14-2017, 07:03 AM
Well, darn, that made too much sense. I still want to be mad at NCAA.

That’s how I felt too. I was frothing at the mouth for the book to get thrown at them. Oh well....

MontanaCoyote
10-14-2017, 08:27 AM
Tell me about it, just like they screwed Seattle U. and Elgin Baylor in the National Championship Game against Kentucky in 1958...... I can really hold a grudge....

Boy, you got that one right! I remember it like it was yesterday. The only thing that allows me to even live with it is Texas Western's all Black starting 5 tearing the all White Kentucky team a new one in the '66 Championship game. The fact that
Rupp lamented about it on his death bed still gives me great satisfaction. Harsh, but he was going die anyway.

And good old Elgin, a quiet and gracious man who will never get the recognition he deserves. The only way I live with that injustice is that when Oscar Robertson was asked if he thought Michael Jordan was the greatest player of all time, he essentially said no and cited Baylor because Baylor could do it all. I'm a believer and very happy, bartruff1, that I'm not the only one who remembers just how great Elgin was.

JPtheBeasta
10-14-2017, 08:50 AM
Over the past several years, and for various reasons, the phrase "plausible deniability" is quickly becoming my least favorite.

zag buddy
10-14-2017, 09:48 AM
I saw Elgin play a number of times on our old black and white TV. He would take a run in the free throw area and dunk it. Wasn't he the one that caused them to changed the rulings on shooting free throws. Greatest individual player I have ever seen.

maynard g krebs
10-14-2017, 11:01 AM
...the same game where the Zags had about a 20 point 1st half lead and only 6 fouls called against them and 9 against NW? ..and then the refs called it completely different with NW in the double-bonus less than 8 minutes played in the 2nd half? That ONE basket interference did not do as much as the lousy reffing at the beginning of the 2nd half that let Northwestern get back into a game ..a game they had NO BUSINESS being in if the refs had done the same job they did in the 1st half!!

Exactly. CBS needs close games for the most part in the tourney to maintain ad revenue, so when one team has a big lead, the refs help the other team get a good run early in the 2nd half. As Corleone said, "it's business".

That game had no business being close in the first place.

bartruff1
10-14-2017, 11:44 AM
That article and that defense are pure sophistry.....nonsense....it begs the issue that the administration and the athletic department knew that those classes were a fraud and that their athletes were taking them to beat the system....they have no shame...

Zagceo
10-14-2017, 07:17 PM
“UNC reported to its accreditor that what occurred for nearly 18 years on its campus was academic fraud,” the NCAA report stated. ” … Specifically, UNC admitted [it] demonstrated that, ‘the academic fraud was long-standing.'”

Now, though, the classes weren’t fraud. They were fine. The NCAA was astounded. The Committee on Infractions asked how this was possible.
“UNC [told] the panel that it was merely a ‘typo’ or oversight,” the NCAA wrote.
A typo? At this point the case had become a “My Cousin Vinny” punchline … “I’m not Jerry Gallo … I’m Jerry Callo.”
What exactly was the typo that caused the school to write the term “academic fraud.” If you replace one letter do you get some other phrase? Maybe whomever does the typing in Chapel Hill is so inept it typo’d an entire phrase which, coincidentally, spelled out “academic fraud” in a case that wasn’t at all “academic fraud.”
Heck of a coincidence, dadgummit.
The infractions committee stated it was “skeptical” and “troubled” by Carolina’s “shifting positions.” That’s nice. There was also was nothing it could do about it.
If the University* of North Carolina was willing to do this in the face of predictable mockery, then the University* of North Carolina could do it.

Bless UNC for it. Bless it for being unapologetically shameless. Bless it for not just pulling back the curtain on college athletics, but dousing it with gasoline and lighting it aflame.

What Jerry Tarkanian, a legend ahead of his time, was saying and doing all those years ago has truly hit the mainstream, reaching levels of lunacy even he couldn’t have envisioned.
Those championship banners sure look pretty, though.

https://sports.yahoo.com/north-carolina-blows-ncaa-smithereens-embarrassing-academic-fraud-defense-010926838.html

TheGonzagaFactor
10-17-2017, 06:35 AM
At ONE moment the refs were turned away and missed his hand in the basket...........totally changed the rest of the game.

I agree with your and your unaffiliated fans, it was ugly, but for a Coach like Mark Few, he's experienced it, he knows(and all of the fans know), sometimes you get an oddly called game. Until they have computerized cameras calling the games, you'll always have that. Sucks it was that late in the tourney for GU, but it's still part of CBB. Like I said, NW is still probably upset about the missed basket interference.

That's laughable. It was one basket. Zags proved they would have won anyway. Up 21 on Iowa State, then ISU + refs come back to within one... GU wins. Up 16 on South Carolina, then SC + refs make wild comeback to take the lead... GU wins. The refs vs. Collins in the championship game was ridiculous. Refs saw UNC had no one capable of slowing Collins down, they knew he was going to beat them, so they made those weak, illegitimate calls. Comparing the one break we got in the last 10 NCAA tournaments to that officiating in the UNC game is a bit ridiculous. Apples vs. oranges.

CDC84
10-17-2017, 10:00 AM
The argument that Collins' missed goal tending call cost Northwestern the game continues to be the biggest bunch of B.S. that there is. As Seth Davis said:

1) There was still 5 minutes on the clock. There was plenty of time for Northwestern to win the game despite the bad call and even Coach Collins' technical.
2) Game momentum in college basketball is as fickle as can be.
3) Gonzaga was just a flat out better team than Northwestern, and with their combination of good offense and elite level defense, they likely would've found out a way to win the game. Just like they did against South Carolina and West Virginia.
4) Coach Collins has to know that he can't be screaming at the refs that far out of the coaches box. If the ref didn't call a T in that situation, he would've been disciplined.

webspinnre
10-17-2017, 10:39 AM
I don't buy this whole "conspiracy" business as something that was plotted by the NCAA or the referees as some sort of intentional collusion. That being said, there's a lot of subconscious stuff that happens as a sports official that could influence things, and then there's the fact that officials just miss calls, and have some games that are better and some that are worse.

gozagswoohoo
10-17-2017, 10:58 AM
So true, and that just re-opened the wound...

Ugh, that's what I'm sayin!! Ouch.

CDC84
10-17-2017, 11:19 AM
In case anyone is interested, despite the presence of a non-BCS west coast team, the national title game between North Carolina and Gonzaga had 16% more viewers than the title game between North Carolina and Villanova the year before.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/tv-ratings-ncaa-championship-game-tar-heels-cbs-1202022251/

In fact, the UNC/GU title game had one of the highest ratings in recent history:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/ncaa-final-four-ratings-history-most-watched-games-cbs-tbs-nbc/

UNC/GU drew a bigger audience than 2014 UConn/Kentucky, 2012 Kentucky/Kansas, 2009 Michigan State/UNC, 2008 Memphis/Kansas, 2007 Florida/Ohio State, ETC.

It is astonishing how much college basketball ratings have dropped since the late 90's. It used to be normal for title games to get a rating in the low 20's.

gozagswoohoo
10-17-2017, 11:22 AM
In case anyone is interested, despite the presence of a non-BCS west coast team, the national title game between North Carolina and Gonzaga had 16% more viewers than the title game between North Carolina and Villanova the year before.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/tv-ratings-ncaa-championship-game-tar-heels-cbs-1202022251/

In fact, the UNC/GU title game had one of the highest ratings in recent history:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/ncaa-final-four-ratings-history-most-watched-games-cbs-tbs-nbc/

UNC/GU drew a bigger audience than 2014 UConn/Kentucky, 2012 Kentucky/Kansas, 2009 Michigan State/UNC, 2008 Memphis/Kansas, 2007 Florida/Ohio State, ETC.

It is astonishing how much college basketball ratings have dropped since the late 90's. It used to be normal for title games to get a rating in the low 20's.

Very interesting.
Thanks for posting.

zagdontzig
10-18-2017, 06:56 AM
Mark Titus is amazing, read his UNC findings column (https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/13/16471704/north-carolina-academic-fraud-ncaa-investigation-findings). He explains the UNC findings very well, and then adds this at the end.

(emphasis mine)

I really love Titus' content. He's a diehard college ball lover. One of those guys who thinks college ball is more pure than pro per interview on the Bill Simmons podcast.

I disagree here though. Yes, we fell victim to some terrible calls/non-calls, but I'm in the camp where we own the loss and move on. Nice to know we have supporters among the credible though.

EDIT: after reading that last paragraph, one could read his line about Gonzaga as saracasm...