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Bogozags
10-13-2017, 06:34 AM
NCAA ruling - no punishment for UNC.

I didn't think that would happen; however, I did think they would receive a slap on the wrist...

Blue Bloods are treated with reverence!

willandi
10-13-2017, 06:38 AM
NCAA ruling - no punishment for UNC.

I didn't think that would happen; however, I did think they would receive a slap on the wrist...

Blue Bloods are treated with reverence!

And now I think Pacific, SMC and EVERY other school that has received sanctions, loss of schollies, pre and post season bans should sue the wallet off of the NCAA.

Zag_Dad
10-13-2017, 07:05 AM
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/21008004/north-carolina-tar-heels-avoid-major-sanctions-academics-fraud-case

Absurd! Chicken####! Total BS! Shameful! I'm speechless

bartruff1
10-13-2017, 07:15 AM
Travesty.......Drain the Swamp...

MileHigh
10-13-2017, 07:25 AM
I had posted on this a while back, and understand why there are no sanctions. This is a university wide academic fraud issue that is beyond the tentacles of the NCAA. Athletes were not treated differently than other students, nor was the athletic staff involved in the fraud (other than steering athletes towards these bogus classes) North Carolina is not off the hook as they will have accredidation issues going forward as well as the pending lawsuits from teachers and students who are suing the University for allowing this scam to go on for so long.

The big three in NCAA violations are: 1) Benefits to players (money, cars, hookers, etc) 2) Changing/doctoring grades 3) Illegal recruiting-----unless a school has violated any or all of these there is unlikely to be a finding of an :institutional control violation

bdmiller7
10-13-2017, 07:44 AM
3100 students took these classes, most were not athletes.

MontanaCoyote
10-13-2017, 07:46 AM
Abhorrent! Disgraceful! Morally and Ethically Corrupt! I could go on.

kitzbuel
10-13-2017, 08:17 AM
3100 students took these classes, most were not athletes.

So the defense is, everybody else was doing something wrong so it was alright for our athletes to do it too.

bartruff1
10-13-2017, 08:20 AM
So the defense is, everybody else was doing something wrong so it was alright for our athletes to do it too.

Good thing for NC that my mother was not making the decision....she taught me when I was 8 that.... that excuse will not work...

MontanaCoyote
10-13-2017, 08:25 AM
Excellent story on this on today's Washington Post, washingtonpost.com. Sports section. Bottom line; Because paper courses were available to non athletes and weren't just for athletes, no violation. The "logic" of this wouldn't pass muster
in the mind of a 7 year old. Seems as though the bigs are stomping all over the littles across the American societal and cultural spectrum more than ever.

ZagzKrak
10-13-2017, 08:25 AM
3100 students took these classes, most were not athletes.

Ya...that's not really the question. The question should be what % of athletes took the class.

bartruff1
10-13-2017, 08:35 AM
Good lawyering means the guilty get off....sad...

bballbeachbum
10-13-2017, 08:38 AM
So the defense is, everybody else was doing something wrong so it was alright for our athletes to do it too.

:vomit-smiley-007:

bdmiller7
10-13-2017, 08:39 AM
It's not an NCAA issuu, its a university academic issue. They have no authority to punish. I'm not saying it's right, but the NCAA can't do anything on this one.

bdmiller7
10-13-2017, 08:47 AM
Listened to Bilas on ESPN, he hit the nail on the head. It was a waste of money and time for the NCAA to investigate this because it's out of there jurisdiction. They have no say in academic accreditation at universities.

JPtheBeasta
10-13-2017, 08:47 AM
Excellent story on this on today's Washington Post, washingtonpost.com. Sports section. Bottom line; Because paper courses were available to non athletes and weren't just for athletes, no violation. The "logic" of this wouldn't pass muster
in the mind of a 7 year old. Seems as though the bigs are stomping all over the littles across the American societal and cultural spectrum more than ever.

For the sake of argument, for every player that gets payola to join an athletic program, would a school merely needs to also pay a non-athlete the same money to come to the school to make this “above board?”

GonzaGAW
10-13-2017, 08:48 AM
Seems to me the question should have zero'd in on whether any athletes were kept eligible to play on the team "because" they took the bogus course. That removes the whole stupid argument that non athletes cheated so student athletes could cheat also. While at the same time showing the Teams (be they basketball, football or others) did in fact gain a "competitive" advantage.

that could be such an easy investigation, any body could look at transcripts and come up with this answer, but I find nothing on this point. Makes me wonder many things, most not good.

final thought, UNC should be ashamed, but they have never shown any remorse or shame, and instead will be clicking their heals and pumping fists. Good to live in Zagnation, I like it better here.

Zagceo
10-13-2017, 08:55 AM
The system was setup on purpose to avoid punishment by people using the NCAA rules in their favor if/when discovered.....smart lawyers gaming the system against less smart lawyers.

Markburn1
10-13-2017, 09:08 AM
I had posted on this a while back, and understand why there are no sanctions. This is a university wide academic fraud issue that is beyond the tentacles of the NCAA. Athletes were not treated differently than other students, nor was the athletic staff involved in the fraud (other than steering athletes towards these bogus classes) North Carolina is not off the hook as they will have accredidation issues going forward as well as the pending lawsuits from teachers and students who are suing the University for allowing this scam to go on for so long.

The big three in NCAA violations are: 1) Benefits to players (money, cars, hookers, etc) 2) Changing/doctoring grades 3) Illegal recruiting-----unless a school has violated any or all of these there is unlikely to be a finding of an :institutional control violation

This is correct except for the accreditation issue. That has already been adjudicated. UNC was sanctioned by an accreditation agency and put on probation. The University has rectified the matter and they are now in compliance.

CDC84
10-13-2017, 09:11 AM
I had posted on this a while back, and understand why there are no sanctions. This is a university wide academic fraud issue that is beyond the tentacles of the NCAA. Athletes were not treated differently than other students, nor was the athletic staff involved in the fraud (other than steering athletes towards these bogus classes) North Carolina is not off the hook as they will have accredidation issues going forward as well as the pending lawsuits from teachers and students who are suing the University for allowing this scam to go on for so long.

The big three in NCAA violations are: 1) Benefits to players (money, cars, hookers, etc) 2) Changing/doctoring grades 3) Illegal recruiting-----unless a school has violated any or all of these there is unlikely to be a finding of an :institutional control violation

I hope those who fired off lawsuits get all that they can.

Before this scandal, UNC was generally regarded as one of the best state universities in the country.No more. It remains to be seen how much it will hurt UNC's image as an academic institution.

JPtheBeasta
10-13-2017, 09:20 AM
This is correct except for the accreditation issue. That has already been adjudicated. UNC was sanctioned by an accreditation agency and put on probation. The University has rectified the matter and they are now in compliance.

This is the head-scratcher. The NCAA didn’t have to prove bogus class because it was already done. I thought they would only need to prove that said classes were used to maintain eligibility. I thought this fell well within their purview.

Markburn1
10-13-2017, 09:21 AM
I hope those who fired off lawsuits get all that they can.

Before this scandal, UNC was generally regarded as one of the best state universities in the country.No more. It remains to be see how much it will hurt UNC's image as an academic institution.

Incorrect. They are ranked #5 in the current US News rankings for public schools. This hasn't affected them and likely won't in the future.

Markburn1
10-13-2017, 09:28 AM
This is the head-scratcher. The NCAA didn’t have to prove bogus class because it was already done. I thought they would only need to prove that said classes were used to maintain eligibility. I thought this fell well within their purview.

The NCAA would have to indict nearly 100% of colleges and universities if that was the criteria used. Every institution has classes that are questionable. If you want, look up your favorite university in combination with "easy classes" and you will be amazed what you find. And yes, that includes Gonzaga. Several quotes by students refer to "easiest class to pick up units", "Never went to class", "easiest grader", "only one paper required and it doesn't have to be great to get an A', "sit next to lots of athletes",etc.

CDC84
10-13-2017, 09:28 AM
Incorrect. They are ranked #5 in the current US News rankings for public schools. This hasn't affected them and likely won't in the future.

We will see in the future Markburn1. Especially with the overwhelming public perception that they got off easily.........and with all the lawsuits that have yet to be settled. I don't think some recent ranking at US News represents what could be forthcoming. These things take time. They have taken a pretty large PR hit: even within their circles. I know two UNC grads (one who I work with), and they sincerely feel their degrees do not "matter" as much as they used to and will not matter as much as they used to going forward due to the scandal. That's sad. US News can say what they want....but will parents want to continue to sent their kids to a school that is perceived as a fraud? And even though the NCAA ruling is entirely different from accreditation issues, it still adds to the growing belief that UNC got off easily.

I doubt it will destroy the institution obviously. That being said, I wouldn't want to send a kid to a school who did something like this. Maybe because I work in higher education.

CarolinaZagFan
10-13-2017, 10:06 AM
An absolute disgrace. I'm sorry, I have loved following and being a fan of gonzaga for the last 18 years but I'm at the end of the road. I can no longer watch/support corrupt college athletics. Today is the day that college sports died for me. At least I got to see my Zags play in the championship last year because I will never watch another college sporting event of any kind. Thanks to the Zags for always doing things the right way and best of luck to the Zags and all of you! CZF out!

Markburn1
10-13-2017, 10:23 AM
An absolute disgrace. I'm sorry, I have loved following and being a fan of gonzaga for the last 18 years but I'm at the end of the road. I can no longer watch/support corrupt college athletics. Today is the day that college sports died for me. At least I got to see my Zags play in the championship last year because I will never watch another college sporting event of any kind. Thanks to the Zags for always doing things the right way and best of luck to the Zags and all of you! CZF out!

Geez. Give me a break. You just now figured out this world aint perfect? The college athletic world has been littered with sleazy and questionable conduct since day one. There will always be corruption, not only in athletics at any level, but the entire world. Are you gonna check out completely or will you enjoy what you can without indicting the entire sports world?

Gonzaga, in my estimation, is one of the pillars of the basketball community in almost every way. That includes academics. There are several institutions that don't fall to the levels of indecency that you apparently think the entire landscape does.

So, you can either run away and deprive yourself of some enjoyment, or you can do what you can to fix the problems that seem so egregious to you.

Good luck with your choice.

Bogozags
10-13-2017, 10:27 AM
Listened to Bilas on ESPN, he hit the nail on the head. It was a waste of money and time for the NCAA to investigate this because it's out of there jurisdiction. They have no say in academic accreditation at universities.

As I said in a previous thread, this could well be the logic used and why no penalties would be levied to UNC; however, the NCAA chose to fine and take away scholarships from Penn State. So what was the NCAA argument used in the PSU case? There is no consistency in their rulings...

Athletes on scholarship (if memory serves) are required to take and pass 12 hours each semester to maintain their eligibility. Those UNC athletes enrolled in those African American Studies' classes, did pass those classes but those classes have been determined to be a sham and were most probably an intragral part of the required 12-hours required to maintain eligibility.

In the PSU case, morality was the driving factor and in the UNC case, a lack of ethics could not be penalized.

JPtheBeasta
10-13-2017, 10:42 AM
The NCAA would have to indict nearly 100% of colleges and universities if that was the criteria used. Every institution has classes that are questionable. If you want, look up your favorite university in combination with "easy classes" and you will be amazed what you find. And yes, that includes Gonzaga. Several quotes by students refer to "easiest class to pick up units", "Never went to class", "easiest grader", "only one paper required and it doesn't have to be great to get an A', "sit next to lots of athletes",etc.

Unless you are arguing that every institution is on probation for academic fraud and have evidence of such your point is a non-sequitur. “Questionable classes”and objectively fraudulent classes as determined by an accrediting agency are along the same spectrum, but are different. Surely you can see a distinction there. These students objectively maintained their eligibility by taking fraudulent classes. This is much different from taking softball classes.

In UNC’s case, the accreditation agency found, among other things, that they failed to comply with “control of intercollegiate athletics.”

(Per the nydailynews: Academic Fraud nets University of North Carolina 1-year probation)

CarolinaZagFan
10-13-2017, 10:45 AM
Geez. Give me a break. You just now figured out this world aint perfect? The college athletic world has been littered with sleazy and questionable conduct since day one. There will always be corruption, not only in athletics at any level, but the entire world. Are you gonna check out completely or will you enjoy what you can without indicting the entire sports world?

Gonzaga, in my estimation, is one of the pillars of the basketball community in almost every way. That includes academics. There are several institutions that don't fall to the levels of indecency that you apparently think the entire landscape does.

So, you can either run away and deprive yourself of some enjoyment, or you can do what you can to fix the problems that seem so egregious to you.

Good luck with your choice.

There are many other things I do for enjoyment (hunting, fishing, golf etc). So I will just be doing those things more now instead of college sports. This pretty much sums up the NCAA for me. Going to class=bad, not going to class=no problem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.backingthepack.com/platform/amp/nc-state-basketball/2017/10/13/16469918/braxton-beverly-ncaa-ruling-appeal-nc-state-basketball

sittingon50
10-13-2017, 10:53 AM
And now I think Pacific, SMC and EVERY other school that has received sanctions, loss of schollies, pre and post season bans should sue the wallet off of the NCAA.

+100%

Kemo 1966
10-13-2017, 12:51 PM
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/21008004/north-carolina-tar-heels-avoid-major-sanctions-academics-fraud-case

Absurd! Chicken####! Total BS! Shameful! I'm speechless

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY....I posted this on Pacific's website:

You Called It, lpbreeze1....... NCAA is a complete JOKE! ACADEMIC FRAUD @ the highest levels in North Carolina...but hey, they are 'our pets'...how could they do anything wrong.......in my book, ALL Creditable Schools should approach the NIT.... set up a true collegiate championship and let the nba' farm systems, ACC, PAC 12, SEC...etc vy for the semi-pro title while the NIT reverts to the TRUE NATIONAL INVITATION TOURNEY..... for students, not propped up 'dummies' and semi-pro's. IMO THE NCAA GAVE ITSELF THE DEATH PENALTY BY kissing NC's collective arse's.................. I feel sorry for Verlin........and in a strange way even for "Pitino"...... many stooge's have to fall to make up for "THE SHAM UNIVERITY of North Carolina 🤑 🤑 avoiding major sanctions in academic fraud case, by simply making it impossible for any student to fail...... school of complete IDIOTS, as long as the standard is SET LOW ENOUGH, it's o.k. with ncaa to play these questionable 'college students' even though they may never even pass a simple driving test..........." Roy Williams best Coach of Dummies, gangsters, etc. no ethics in Tar Heels program....Basically telling NCAA to shove it, cuz we cater to the LOWEST STUDENT, those D+'s and BELOW! 👯 REAL SPORTSMANSHIP, ROY!!!!!!! Carolina Blue now = THE BIGGEST DUMP HEAP OF COLLEGE ATHLETICS !!! Wish I could tell you guys how I really feel !!!!!!


BE NOT FORWARD BUT FRIENDLY AND COURTEOUS; BE THE FIRST TO SALUTE, HEAR, AND ANSWER; & BE NOT PENSIVE WHEN IT'S TIME TO CONVERSE. Rule #66 of George Washington's RULES OF CIVILITY & DECENT BEHAVIOR....

bartruff1
10-13-2017, 01:35 PM
There are many other things I do for enjoyment (hunting, fishing, golf etc). So I will just be doing those things more now instead of college sports. This pretty much sums up the NCAA for me. Going to class=bad, not going to class=no problem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.backingthepack.com/platform/amp/nc-state-basketball/2017/10/13/16469918/braxton-beverly-ncaa-ruling-appeal-nc-state-basketball

There are a lot more important and rewarding and enjoyable things to do than spend your time as a sports fan....I follow Gonzaga Basketball and that is all...

Probably because I went there....the kids and the coaches are classy and it is it winter in the Cascades ....

Imo nearly all sports are corrupt .....you almost have to watch high school and middle school sports to see teams and players and coaches who aspire to play the game and follow the rules....and even then..... you find parents that hold kids back and coaches that cheat....

MONEY....the more money at stake, the greater the temptation (reward) for cheating.

CDC84
10-13-2017, 02:02 PM
It's funny......one of the reasons why I love watching "niche" sports at the Olympics like fencing, table tennis, badminton, judo, etc., is because major television doesn't care about them. They don't have an audience, but the athletes train as hard as anyone in track and field, swimming or gymnastics. They do it for the love of their sport, and for the love of their country, period. Very few of these people are actually able to have careers in these sports. It's a wonderful thing to witness when these sports occasionally get broadcasted on MSNBC.

This is my little rant on the NCAA:

Back in the late 1960's, Jerry Tarkanian (of all people), wrote a piece for a Long Beach newspaper where he said (something to the effect) that the NCAA was so damn mad at Kentucky basketball that it put Centenary College on probation for 5 years. That little piece began a 25+ year harassment of Tark by the NCAA for which he was rewarded 2.5 million dollars to make him go away. He was the only guy who really fought them. Dale Brown did as well to some degree. While I understand Tark just wanting to get away from the NCAA (and to take the 2.5 million), I wish he would have taken the NCAA to the supreme court. He had the goods on them regarding their selective and inconsistent enforcement procedures going all the way back to the NCAA ignoring Sam Gilbert and UCLA. The NCAA did so many illegal things when monitoring LBSU, UNLV and Fresno State (teams in non-power conferences at the time, of course) that he might've blown the organization up. The NCAA wouldn't even allow him to use as evidence sworn affidavits that Tark had done with the district attorney of the state of Nevada regarding the accusations against UNLV by the NCAA. He did the testimony because the whole infractions committee was filled with SEC people (overseeing corrupt football programs) who he couldn't trust to give him a fair deal. And anyone who followed those 1988-1991 Vegas teams knows that their players were forced sit out three games and such for forgetting to pay back 10 cent phone calls and all sorts of other ridiculous things that no one ever gets charged with. The NCAA wouldn't even allow the kids to pay back the 10 cent telephone bills. They had to sit. Crazy.

I realized right then and there that the NCAA were a bunch of phonies. And it still stands true: as his son Danny said (a lawyer), despite all those years of investigating his programs, Tark was never nailed with a single major violation beyond lack of institutional control which as I said earlier is what the NCAA many times pins on any program that they investigate for major violations but where they failed to find anything of substance. The UNLV president even hired student workers to monitor the UNLV players to catch them committing a violation. Those students, and the NCAA, were never were able to prove that any player was paid money to play for the Rebels. Not even the great Larry Johnson.

What Tark did do (and it was controversial) was take on at risk kids. Some of the kids didn't pan out (see Lloyd Daniels - who Tark later admitted he shouldn't have gone after), but many did make it and were able to get out of the ghettos. But all was legal. Anyone could practically get into UNLV (it wasn't a university like UNC), so he took advantage of the school's easy admission policies. The NCAA treated his players as if they were dumb black jocks. They should be ashamed of themselves. Forever. Their letter of apology to Tark and their pay check meant nothing. They just wanted to get rid of him because he had the goods on them.

So that's my NCAA rant for the day.

coolhandzag
10-13-2017, 02:05 PM
There are a lot more important and rewarding and enjoyable things to do than spend your time as a sports fan....I follow Gonzaga Basketball and that is all...

Probably because I went there....the kids and the coaches are classy and it is it winter in the Cascades ....

Imo nearly all sports are corrupt .....you almost have to watch high school and middle school sports to see teams and players and coaches who aspire to play the game and follow the rules....and even then..... you find parents that hold kids back and coaches that cheat....


I'm with you 100%. I've pretty much given up on watching any collegiate or professional athletics other then he Zags. I stick with 'em because I graduated from there and have a TON of great memories.

In hindsight the course of action taken against UNC isn't such a surprise..........sure it's garbage, but that is the way it is, at least for now.

I've a 10' drop on the Double Down / Double Diamond trail set on the west side of Chuckanut calling my name. All the more time to work up to it.

bartruff1
10-13-2017, 04:25 PM
Keep your eyes on the prize and don't be distracted by the nude beach....a ten foot drop is nothing to fool with...

I always ski on Super Bowl Sunday....