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ZagNative
09-30-2017, 06:00 PM
Pretty good stuff in this offering from Jim Meehan. (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/sep/30/whos-your-five/) Made sense to me!

http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2017/09/30/zags-web_t2500.jpg?6913dd5f0afa17a0b7a91a88b4e808d58626 4d13

bartruff1
09-30-2017, 06:15 PM
80%....

Larryzag
09-30-2017, 06:44 PM
My best guess:

Norvel will start at the 3 with Kispert sub
Rui will be first sub at the 4 and also sub at the 3 occasionally?
Larson will sub at the 5
Norvel will sub at the 2
Melson and Wade? sub for Perkins

MDABE80
09-30-2017, 09:08 PM
It's the safest guess.

Just_An_Old_Zag
09-30-2017, 09:45 PM
Im hoping Jacob Larsen is healthy and starts at 5...course im also hoping I won tonights Oregon Megabucks Lottery...

Malastein
09-30-2017, 10:26 PM
I think this makes particular sense for the start of the season, but by season's end we shall see if this sticks.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-01-2017, 04:59 AM
What I like about Meehan's "most likely" lineup prediction of Perkins, Melson, Rui, Tillie and Williams is that it could be an important confidence booster for Rui...help him embrace the team's need for him to be an impact player. Also gives Zags amazing size with a freak athlete at the 3, something very few college teams can roll out. Norvell would be a great spark off the bench in this scenario (but I also love the 'next most likely' prediction w Norvell starting at the 3 instead of Rui).

Having said that, Rui will need to make a Great Leap Forward in understanding and playing within the Zags system on both ends of the court. He often looked a bit lost out there last season. Understandable given the transition he was making to new language, D-1 hoops, new culture etc.

Love the idea of Norvell, Kispert, Larsen being a unit brought in off the bench together to form a lineup of:
Perkins, Norvell, Kispert, Williams, Larsen.

Depending on who picks up an early foul maybe let Tillie or Rui stay in at the 4 alongside Larsen. I somehow imagine Tillie "the problem solver" being very impactful alongside Larsen...some minutes where he gets to be more of a focal point of the offense at his natural 4 position while Williams gets a breather.

Bogozags
10-01-2017, 07:07 AM
Yes, Meehan's "most likely" lineup prediction is just a "guess" and seems logical too; however, I believe it will be Perkins, Melson, Norvell, Williams and Tillie. I chose Norvell over Rui because Coach Few likes playing with a 3-guard set.

Also, Larsen could well play himself into the starting lineup with Tillie coming off the bench to relieve either Williams or Larsen... with Rui, Kispert and Wade coming off the bench...again, this is all "guess work".

Coach Crazy
10-01-2017, 07:54 AM
Yes, Meehan's "most likely" lineup prediction is just a "guess" and seems logical too; however, I believe it will be Perkins, Melson, Norvell, Williams and Tillie. I chose Norvell over Rui because Coach Few likes playing with a 3-guard set.

Also, Larsen could well play himself into the starting lineup with Tillie coming off the bench to relieve either Williams or Larsen... with Rui, Kispert and Wade coming off the bench...again, this is all "guess work".

Closer to This. Although, Norvell's offensive skill set is far more advanced, at this point. And I'd switch up Norvell and Silas. Better shooter at the two.


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Larryzag
10-01-2017, 08:37 AM
I see your point but Few has a history of starting his seniors.

Closer to This. Although, Norvell's offensive skill set is far more advanced, at this point. And I'd switch up Norvell and Silas. Better shooter at the two.


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Reborn
10-01-2017, 09:21 AM
I think that this year may be the toughest year to predict who will start and who will be one of the first 3 players off the bench. There are just so many new players this year, and new players who have very good resumes. So far we haven't even talked about Ayayi, and this guys could be pretty dang good. I have been very impressed by everything I have read about him. The problem is there hasn't been too much written about him, and really not very many videos. He is my biggest question mark, and he's really someone who could be big surprise. I've certainly read a lot about Wade, Norvell and Kispert, but I have not seen them play at the D1 level. The good thing about Norvell is that he has been at GU for a year and has either practiced with the team, or at least, has been at all of the practices. So to me it gives him an advantage, but honestly not much of one. Few will play his best five the most, and as we all know it does NOT matter to him who starts, and the players know this. What matters is who finishes the game. Jim Meehan knows this, and he knows that there are quite a few players who could start. That's why he has, I think, 8 players who could be among the starting five.

We have a very tough non-conference schedule (contrary to what some believe), and this year it will be even tougher because we do not really have a set rotation like we did last year, and in most years. There are too many unknowns this year. I think that the sure starters are JW3, Perkins and Melson. After that it is anyone's guess. I can certainly see Jim M's first 5 starters with Hachimura starting at the 3. But we could also have Norvell starting at the 3, or Kispert. We really don't know. But what I do know is that we have really good players, and it really doesn't matter who starts. Rui, Kispert, Norvell, Tille, Larsen, Wade, Jones and Ayayi are all good players, and I am really excited to see them all in action. The mystery surrounding this team makes it so much more exciting to begin the year.

Go Zags!!!

Zagceo
10-01-2017, 09:26 AM
Wade getting overshadowed by other talent?

ZagNative
10-01-2017, 10:02 AM
Great post, Reborn! Thanks!

maynard g krebs
10-01-2017, 10:14 AM
Agree Norvell's understanding is more advanced than Rui's at this point. Same w/ Kispert. Rui is more suited to be instant offense off the bench now.

Coach Crazy
10-01-2017, 10:23 AM
I see your point but Few has a history of starting his seniors.

I didn't mean Norvell starting over Silas. Putting Zack at the 2 and Silas at the 3.


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Zagceo
10-01-2017, 10:32 AM
Rui should come off the bench...that injection will ignite the crowd which will energize the team even more IMO

let him watch game unfold and how the offense is being defended/attacked before entering every game.

get him 25+ min a game.....

tyra
10-01-2017, 11:19 AM
So we have 3.5 bigs -- Larsen, Killian, JWIII, and Rui part time at the 4. Seems to me you don't start 3 of your 4 bigs. I tend to think Rui comes off the bench (for either the 3 or the 4 as needed).

seacatfan
10-01-2017, 11:30 AM
So we have 3.5 bigs -- Larsen, Killian, JWIII, and Rui part time at the 4. Seems to me you don't start 3 of your 4 bigs. I tend to think Rui comes off the bench (for either the 3 or the 4 as needed).

Remember the brief experiment starting Karnowski, Wiltjer and Sabonis? Can't remember if Few had already abandoned that or if Karno's back injury brought an end to it. That was quite the raging debate among fans who would start before that season started.

MDABE80
10-01-2017, 11:38 AM
[QUOTE=Zagceo;1331464]Wade getting overshadowed by other talent?[/no. It's just that nobody here has seen him play
Post mission. He'll get lots of PG minutes as will Kispert.

seacatfan
10-01-2017, 12:07 PM
He'll get lots of PG minutes as will Kispert.

What? I've seen Kispert project as a 2, 3 and maybe even 4, but not a PG. Do you know something nobody else does?

Reborn
10-01-2017, 12:43 PM
[QUOTE=Zagceo;1331464]Wade getting overshadowed by other talent?[/no. It's just that nobody here has seen him play
Post mission. He'll get lots of PG minutes as will Kispert.

This may be one of the worst posts I've ever seen? Kispert at the point- guard. Come on Abe!!!

DixieZag
10-01-2017, 06:22 PM
Seems to me like starting Norvelle at the 3 helps in that he's plenty big himself, but also frees Few up to sub Rui in at any number of places as a true "6th starter."

strikenowhere
10-01-2017, 06:44 PM
Im hoping Jacob Larsen is healthy and starts at 5...course im also hoping I won tonights Oregon Megabucks Lottery...

Unless Larsen blossomed into a legit NBA talent while injured & rehabbing last year there is no way he is going to start.

Zagceo
10-01-2017, 06:52 PM
Unless Larsen blossomed into a legit NBA talent while injured & rehabbing last year there is no way he is going to start.

So only legit NBA talent will crack Zag lineup........whats that say about Collins?:)

MDABE80
10-01-2017, 09:28 PM
[QUOTE=MDABE80;1331473]

This may be one of the worst posts I've ever seen? Kispert at the point- guard. Come on Abe!!!
You've written worse.

Read again. Wade's the PG. Kispert is a 3 or 4. Never said he was a PG. He'll get lots of minutes though. Both will.

Clumbsy as written but I meant Kispert will get lots of minutes but not as a PG. Kinda bunched the two together..

CDC84
10-01-2017, 10:22 PM
The only real question is SF. Perkins, Melson, JWIII and Tillie are shoe ins.

TheGonzagaFactor
10-02-2017, 06:31 AM
Remember the brief experiment starting Karnowski, Wiltjer and Sabonis? Can't remember if Few had already abandoned that or if Karno's back injury brought an end to it. That was quite the raging debate among fans who would start before that season started.

I still can't believe people thought that would work. I understand that our guards were awful for almost that entire season except for Perkins, but that experiment was a joke that had zero chance of succeeding.

TheGonzagaFactor
10-02-2017, 06:33 AM
[QUOTE=Reborn;1331478]
You've written worse.

Read again. Wade's the PG. Kispert is a 3 or 4. Never said he was a PG. He'll get lots of minutes though. Both will.

Clumbsy as written but I meant Kispert will get lots of minutes but not as a PG. Kinda bunched the two together..

Your quote "He'll get lots of PG minutes as will Kispert." How is that to be taken any other way?

bartruff1
10-02-2017, 07:27 AM
Abe....I didn't read your post to say that Kispert would get minutes at PG....anyone with a pulse in their brain would know you intended to say he would (also) get many minutes at his position....there maybe some axe grinding going on here unfortunately..."Gotcha" is a really cheap shot... moving on...

cggonzaga
10-02-2017, 11:49 AM
The only real question is SF. Perkins, Melson, JWIII and Tillie are shoe ins.

+1

MDABE80
10-02-2017, 12:58 PM
[QUOTE=MDABE80;1331514]

Your quote "He'll get lots of PG minutes as will Kispert." How is that to be taken any other way?

The other way.:) Ask Bart.

LongIslandZagFan
10-02-2017, 01:13 PM
Just knowing Few and the level of talent of the gentlemen that are seniors, there is not a scenario where the starting lineup doesn't include Perkins, Melson, and Williams. There just isn't. Minutes might get adjusted depending on the depth... but those three start. Period.

After that, Tillie is all but a lock on one of the two other starting spots. Which really means the battle is the 3 spot for the start. My money is on Rui.

bartruff1
10-02-2017, 01:46 PM
[QUOTE=TheGonzagaFactor;1331539]

The other way.:) Ask Bart.

The internet has embolden the Grammar Nazis.....someone actually corrected my use of " to".....go figure...

SunDevilGolfZag
10-02-2017, 04:08 PM
It will be interesting to see if one of the freshmen (or red shirts we haven't really seen play yet) is an alpha dog we weren't expecting. Elias Harris obviously showed that at Krazieness in the Kennel when he was a freshman. Certainly changed my starting lineup perceptions. I know you can't usually assess much from KIK but that year you could. Can't wait to see the new guys Saturday and perhaps see another pleasant surprise like EH was

TexasZagFan
10-02-2017, 06:17 PM
It will be interesting to see if one of the freshmen (or red shirts we haven't really seen play yet) is an alpha dog we weren't expecting. Elias Harris obviously showed that at Krazieness in the Kennel when he was a freshman. Certainly changed my starting lineup perceptions. I know you can't usually assess much from KIK but that year you could. Can't wait to see the new guys Saturday and perhaps see another pleasant surprise like EH was

In their own way, I think Zach, Corey, and Jesse are all alpha dogs...all highly touted, with skins on the wall. Zach Collins may have been a Burger Boy, but he wasn't a starter until his senior year IIRC.

gueastcoast
10-03-2017, 08:53 AM
Every year, the GUB clamors for three starting bigs; every year (the short-lived Karno/Wiltj/Domas experiment notwithstanding) Coach lets us down :)

Then again, maybe he knows something we don't....

zag67
10-03-2017, 01:26 PM
I agree with Texas. All three of those could be great at different points of a game or season. I do think that Zach might be farther along because of the redshirt season. And I would also like to add Ayayi to that list. I think he might be a defensive asset.

DixieZag
10-03-2017, 06:41 PM
Is Zach healthy?

Zagceo
10-03-2017, 06:54 PM
Is Zach healthy?

what makes you ask that?

DixieZag
10-03-2017, 07:49 PM
what makes you ask that?

I thought that he sat out much of the summer play with his knee? Or am I thinking of someone else?

strikenowhere
10-03-2017, 08:02 PM
This season cannot start soon enough

amaronizag
10-04-2017, 07:23 AM
CDC84, in light of the recent Adidas mess, I don't think we should use the words "shoe in" when referring to Zag players in the future. Just sayin.... :-)

ZagsGoZags
10-04-2017, 03:28 PM
is Larson healthy?

DixieZag
10-07-2017, 08:47 AM
This season cannot start soon enough

I am wondering if this was snarky toward my question regarding Novelle and believing he sat out much of the summer bc his knee had been sore again.

I am well aware Larsen is coming off the ACL.

It was just a simple question, I've not been able to follow much this summer.

It likely wasn't snarky. But, if something looks like it, I think it keeps newer members who might otherwise ask a question from commenting, and this site would benefit so much from many new voices.

JPtheBeasta
10-07-2017, 09:23 AM
Every year, the GUB clamors for three starting bigs; every year (the short-lived Karno/Wiltj/Domas experiment notwithstanding) Coach lets us down :)

Then again, maybe he knows something we don't....

Coach has been a constant disappointment ever since his refusal to start Wil Foster.

Rui is closer to a wing than a post player, in my opinion, so he should work better at the 3 than Wiltjer. That said, we have so many other guys that probably need to be in the rotation and sharing minutes at the 3 that it seems that there is more room (and need) for Rui at the 4.

bartruff1
10-07-2017, 12:58 PM
lol

Goshzagit
10-11-2017, 07:11 AM
is Larson healthy?

Yes. He was cleared for full basketball activity about 6 wks ago. He's been working hard all off-season, yet bball shape is a different animal. Still a ways to go, but should be fine by November.

Updated starting (5) game 1:

Perk
Silas (although, I like him better off the bench)
Kispert
JIII
Larsen

Tillie first off bench. Considered starting JIII at 5 hole, with Tillie at 4, but this is our strongest team vs Power 5 opponents.

Wade will also receive a ton of early playing time. Too smart, savvy, shooter not to for us. Definitely has some Pangos in him. Pangos a better distributor, floor leader, Wade just more explosive athlete.

Norvell will see a good amount of time, along the lines of Melson last season and the season before.

Rui in spot minutes (less than 20 mpg at the 3 & 4). Based on Few's recent comments and what I was told by a former player in late August, still a mess in the half-court set(s). Language has improved immensely, but still not clicking with running plays and spacing. When we need to run, change the pace of the game, or isolation scoring, then we'll seek Rui's talents. Otherwise, he will sit. He can play at this level, even the next, but must learn to understand the flow and what is needed in our flex based system.

I think Jones plays more than most are expecting. He saw time at the (4) last year and will again this year, esp in WCC play. We don't have a choice. Our frontcourt is scary thin. One injury, or foul trouble, could seriously derail this season. Must stay healthy up front. I'll leave it at that.

Joel Ayayi has a ways to go. Not with his length, defense, athleticism, or quickness, but woefully weak and a bit shy in the lane. Needs to learn to sacrifice his body a bit more. He could come on late, otherwise, expect a RS, or very limited PT this year. Has a huge ceiling. Must add strength and a physical/tough mindset to his game. His handles are solid and quick, but just not ready for this physicality of defense and offense....yet.

I wish Brandon Clarke was playing this season. We're a Sweet 16 team (or better) with another big, esp him.

This is a lineup and team which will fight for a NCAA tourney spot. Our schedule ain't easy. Most season's we play 1 or 2 Top-25 teams, we potentially play 5 this year. The posters stating our schedule is weaker, well, are crazy. We can never afford many early season losses and feel they could pile up this year. It will be fun to watch this group play all year though. And the young guys develop. Larsen, Norvell, Kispert, Wade, Ayayi, et al are all FRESHMAN. Our hope is Larsen, Tillie, and Perkins can stay healthy -- all 3 have dealt with recent injuries or continual nagging injuries.

Also, our somewhat rival, SMC, is better than last season, even without Rahon. They are just more formidable up front, more physical, bigger, etc. Top-20 team all season.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-11-2017, 08:19 AM
Great post Goshzagit. I agree on all fronts. Few's comments about Rui and needing to channel that athleticism & talent into winning basketball plays suggests we need to pump the breaks on our expectations of him this season. I love Tillie but starting Larsen would allow Williams to play his natural PF position and establish himself that way early.

First subs of Tillie, Norvell, Rui and Wade would be fun run & gun lengthy lineup to see:
Wade
Norvell
Rui
Tillie
Williams

btzag
10-11-2017, 11:19 AM
Tillie, Rui AND Norvell all coming off the bench? I give that about a 1% chance of happening in game one, barring any injuries.

Goshzagit
10-11-2017, 11:21 AM
Tillie, Rui AND Norvell all coming off the bench? I give that about a 1% chance of happening in game one, barring any injuries.

Probably right on Tillie, yet expect Rui and Norvell off the bench.

btzag
10-11-2017, 11:24 AM
Probably right on Tillie, yet expect Rui and Norvell off the bench.

Kispert starting over Rui and Norvell from day one would be one of the biggest upsets in program history. Especially when you consider that great zags like Morrison or recruits like Collins came off the bench.

jbslicer
10-11-2017, 11:53 AM
Kispert starting over Rui and Norvell from day one would be one of the biggest upsets in program history. Especially when you consider that great zags like Morrison or recruits like Collins came off the bench.

Morrison should have started as a freshman.

amaronizag
10-11-2017, 11:53 AM
I'm anxious to hear what Tommy has to say tomorrow night. It's very early into the practice season so I doubt he will reveal a starting line up. However, I can't imagine anyone but Norvell starting at the 3 for the first part of the season. I for one wan't disappointed at all in what I saw of Norvell at Kraziness. He can really get it to the hoop and score in many different ways. He's a class act and l really expect him to shine this year once he gets into the flow of the offense.

Goshzagit
10-11-2017, 11:54 AM
Morrison should have started as a freshman.

Agreed. We lost our final game that season as a result...

GoZags
10-11-2017, 01:21 PM
Agreed. We lost our final game that season as a result...

Adam played 8 more minutes in that Nevada loss than every starter except Stepp and Violette. I don’t see how Morrison on the floor at
outset would have prevented the quick whistles on Ronny.

BULLDOG#1
10-11-2017, 02:47 PM
The 3 has to be Rui's to lose. He's got a year in the system and he's got the highest upside over anyone on the team. Norvel looks like a 2 guard, not small forward. Kispert looks promising, but Few will likely give the nod to the seniority. Rui may well blunder the opportunity, but he'll have the first kick at the position.

SteelCityZag
10-12-2017, 04:32 AM
The 3 has to be Rui's to lose. He's got a year in the system and he's got the highest upside over anyone on the team. Norvel looks like a 2 guard, not small forward. Kispert looks promising, but Few will likely give the nod to the seniority. Rui may well blunder the opportunity, but he'll have the first kick at the position.

With respect, I disagree. It's Norvell's to lose. He's more than an outside scorer and understands the game and the system better at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Rui demand major minutes at the 3. That would only mean good things for this year's Zags. But Norvell checks all the boxes of a 3, and then some. I think he starts there, then spells Melson at the 2. Next up at the 3 is the battle between Kispert and Rui.

MileHigh
10-12-2017, 05:39 AM
With respect, I disagree. It's Norvell's to lose. He's more than an outside scorer and understands the game and the system better at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Rui demand major minutes at the 3. That would only mean good things for this year's Zags. But Norvell checks all the boxes of a 3, and then some. I think he starts there, then spells Melson at the 2. Next up at the 3 is the battle between Kispert and Rui.

The ability to defend and help rebound will dictate who gets the most minutes at that wing spot. Rui can protect the rim a bit, but might struggle staying in front of some of the quicker wing players the Zags will see. Norvell is a better on ball defender on the perimeter, but is not real explosive (below average hops) and isnt going to block shots or rebound as well as Rui. Offensively they are really different players. Norvell is a really good shooter, crafty driver, but isnt going to blow by or jump over any one. Rui is almost a polar opposite in that he is an average shooter but will posterize someone with his athleticism if given the chance.

My guess is that Norvell will start at the 3, but Rui will get opportunities there as well. Dont know much about Kispert and not sure how he fits in the rotation

ZAG 4 LIFE
10-12-2017, 07:17 AM
For a Rui, it is all about Basketball IQ, and court awareness...
On both ends. If he starts to figure it out, in the 5 on 5 settings
Both offensively and defensively, Then you'll have trouble keeping
him off the court. Until then...

strikenowhere
10-12-2017, 07:44 AM
The ability to defend and help rebound will dictate who gets the most minutes at that wing spot. Rui can protect the rim a bit, but might struggle staying in front of some of the quicker wing players the Zags will see. Norvell is a better on ball defender on the perimeter, but is not real explosive (below average hops) and isnt going to block shots or rebound as well as Rui. Offensively they are really different players. Norvell is a really good shooter, crafty driver, but isnt going to blow by or jump over any one. Rui is almost a polar opposite in that he is an average shooter but will posterize someone with his athleticism if given the chance.

My guess is that Norvell will start at the 3, but Rui will get opportunities there as well. Dont know much about Kispert and not sure how he fits in the rotation

Not trying to be a jerk - but isn't that kinda contradictory?

BULLDOG#1
10-12-2017, 09:01 AM
The ability to defend and help rebound will dictate who gets the most minutes at that wing spot. Rui can protect the rim a bit, but might struggle staying in front of some of the quicker wing players the Zags will see. Norvell is a better on ball defender on the perimeter, but is not real explosive (below average hops) and isnt going to block shots or rebound as well as Rui. Offensively they are really different players. Norvell is a really good shooter, crafty driver, but isnt going to blow by or jump over any one. Rui is almost a polar opposite in that he is an average shooter but will posterize someone with his athleticism if given the chance.

My guess is that Norvell will start at the 3, but Rui will get opportunities there as well. Dont know much about Kispert and not sure how he fits in the rotation

Right now, Rui is a more known commodity than Norvell. I cannot understand why folks here highlight Rui's deficiencies (which are known) and yet declare Norvell as a better on the ball defender when we've seen no evidence of this in a GU uniform.

If the ability to defend and help rebound is paramount, then I sorta think Rui wins hands down. His strength and athletic ability translates into rebounds and weakside blocks (saw this last year) and I didn't witness a lot of issues with him guarding the perimeter. Highlights I've seen of Norvell, he's a 2 guard. Few might like to spread the defenses and have the 3 guard three point offense (in which a guy like Norvell could thrive). We all know how successful Mathews was as an undersized and not real athletic 3 in Few's system, but I still think it's Rui's to lose.

And lose he might. Many here are incredibly high on Norvell, and though I don't see it yet, they could be right. My guess is that Rui will still get the first kick at it, though.

zag buddy
10-12-2017, 09:09 AM
Somewhere along the way I see Krispert and Rui at the wing and Norvell at the two.

MileHigh
10-12-2017, 10:55 AM
Not trying to be a jerk - but isn't that kinda contradictory?

Not contradictory at all. Norvell has quicker feet and better anticipation than Rui on the defensive end. Rui is a more explosive leaper than Norvel on the offensive end

This is based on nothing I have seen, as I have seen little of either. It is based on whT I have been told by those that see them everyday.

Coach Crazy
10-12-2017, 11:07 AM
Norvell is a more complete player. He currently offers tools that will produce higher value. Part of playing on this team is playing within the system. You have to be efficient. You have to also understand it, or you won't get any time on the court.

Norvell is a better ball handler, better passer, has less waisted movement, better shooter, and moves better without the ball.

Rui has more upside, but highlight plays do not efficiency value make.

Plus, Zack fits the 2, better. Combo guard that can shoot lights out. Our glue guy role seems to be optimal at the Wing, and Silas has the defense to be successful at that position.




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Goshzagit
10-12-2017, 11:36 AM
Dont know much about Kispert and not sure how he fits in the rotation

He starts at the 3. Even spot minutes at 4.

Maybe not Game 1, but by Game 2 or 3.

Norvell will play plenty as well, but mostly SG, some Wing.

maynard g krebs
10-12-2017, 12:06 PM
Right now, Rui is a more known commodity than Norvell. I cannot understand why folks here highlight Rui's deficiencies (which are known) and yet declare Norvell as a better on the ball defender when we've seen no evidence of this in a GU uniform.

If the ability to defend and help rebound is paramount, then I sorta think Rui wins hands down. His strength and athletic ability translates into rebounds and weakside blocks (saw this last year) and I didn't witness a lot of issues with him guarding the perimeter. Highlights I've seen of Norvell, he's a 2 guard. Few might like to spread the defenses and have the 3 guard three point offense (in which a guy like Norvell could thrive). We all know how successful Mathews was as an undersized and not real athletic 3 in Few's system, but I still think it's Rui's to lose.

And lose he might. Many here are incredibly high on Norvell, and though I don't see it yet, they could be right. My guess is that Rui will still get the first kick at it, though.

To me, Norvell is far more of a known commodity. He has an instinctive understanding of the game, honed by playing in one of the toughest bb environments in the country since childhood. Rui, on the other hand, grew up playing against less talented opposition, and has always been able to dominate one on one. So he is still in the process of learning to play in a way that is still relatively new to him.
And imo he won't start for Few until he instinctively, seamlessly fits into GU's half court game. Norvell and Kispert both can do that. Each has been picked to start by posters who strike me as pretty astute, and/or have connections.

Rui certainly has the most pro upside of the three players, but is the least developed at this point imo. At this point I think he's best off coming off the bench w/ the second unit, using his size and athleticism maybe in the zone trapping defense with a unit pushing tempo and getting scoring opportunities in transition.

BULLDOG#1
10-12-2017, 02:03 PM
To me, Norvell is far more of a known commodity. He has an instinctive understanding of the game, honed by playing in one of the toughest bb environments in the country since childhood. Rui, on the other hand, grew up playing against less talented opposition, and has always been able to dominate one on one. So he is still in the process of learning to play in a way that is still relatively new to him.
And imo he won't start for Few until he instinctively, seamlessly fits into GU's half court game. Norvell and Kispert both can do that. Each has been picked to start by posters who strike me as pretty astute, and/or have connections.

Rui certainly has the most pro upside of the three players, but is the least developed at this point imo. At this point I think he's best off coming off the bench w/ the second unit, using his size and athleticism maybe in the zone trapping defense with a unit pushing tempo and getting scoring opportunities in transition.

Rui dominated the FIBA U19s, did he not? He put up huge numbers against the best U19s in the world and did so with constant double and triple teams... That's got to be equal to or greater than Norvell's high school experience.

Don't forget, Novell hasn't played a minute of college ball and we don't even know if the knee is fully healed. The 3 is not his natural position, and I have doubts that he can defend at that position (his defense is a question mark overall). Despite Rui's size and ability to play the post, he's more suited to the 3 than Norvell.

I have high hopes for Norvell, but I don't share the ridiculously high optimism many share here regarding him. To me he's more Bol Kong than Steven Gray. Hope I'm wrong.

Agree that Kispert could surprise, but he's got zero college experience too, and Few isn't likely to start a frosh, at least at the beginning of the season.

seacatfan
10-12-2017, 02:25 PM
A couple thoughts. The 2 and 3 have often been interchangeable and indistinguishable at GU (at a lot of schools really). There have been VERY few prototype 3's at GU. Few likes 3 guard lineups.

Few also likes players he can trust. I don't think "player w/ most upside" is the determining factor for him as far as lineups. It's more about which player knows where to position himself on O and D, how to run the offense, limits turnovers, etc.

I haven't seen practices or the KIK, but based on what I've read on this board I don't think Rui has a leg up on a starting spot vs. either Norvell or Kispert.

maynard g krebs
10-12-2017, 04:28 PM
Rui dominated the FIBA U19s, did he not? He put up huge numbers against the best U19s in the world and did so with constant double and triple teams... That's got to be equal to or greater than Norvell's high school experience.



I didn't see any of the U19 worlds, so it's possible that he's made a huge leap, which would be great. But imo the ability to carry a lesser team going 1 on 2 or 1 on 3 is much different from what he'll need to do to be successful with the Zags. I'm in the camp that says he's still got a learning curve to experience before he can be a starter in the Zags' system.

I really hope you're right, actually, because if Few sees him as worthy of starting over Norvell and Kispert, it means this team is going to be better than most people expect. Maybe much better.

I don't think Bol Kong is remotely comparable to Norvell.

btzag
10-12-2017, 04:34 PM
Listen I get the ???'s about Rui cause I have a lot as well, but he is freakishly talented and has played in our system for a year + now.

Norvell has also practiced in the system for a year and is super talented so he is definitely going to get a huge look.

But Kispert?! I've seen the video's and pictures and all that...but do you guys forget that he played in small school hs hoops last year and just had his first official D1 practice or that he missed a ton of hoops last year with an injury? This hype about him has grown to almost crazy levels. Have ANY of you seen him practice? IF he is dominating Rui and Norvell and has picked up all the offensive and defensive concepts in a couple practices please let me know. But this notion that he is the favorite or even neck and neck with those guys is not fair to kid IMO.

zag buddy
10-12-2017, 04:59 PM
btzag I saw Krispert practice this year and last year. As I've mentioned before last year, just getting ready for his senior year in high school at summer scrimmages I thought he was about the best player on the floor. You will be excited shortly.

btzag
10-12-2017, 06:11 PM
btzag I saw him practice this year and last year. As I've mentioned before last year, just getting ready for his senior year in high school at summer scrimmages I thought he was about the best player on the floor. You will be excited shortly.

Oh I'm excited but there is a middle ground between redshirting and being a day 1 starter over two of our returning super-talented guard/wings. We'll see but I would bet that there is a 99% chance Kispert comes off the bench in November.

willandi
10-12-2017, 06:17 PM
Oh I'm excited but there is a middle ground between redshirting and being a day 1 starter over two of our returning super-talented guard/wings. We'll see but I would bet that there is a 99% chance Kispert comes off the bench in November.

There is also a vid of Kispert playing in a pro-am and putting up numbers on Jamal Crawford. Not just against HS teams from small schools.

btzag
10-12-2017, 06:28 PM
There is also a vid of Kispert playing in a pro-am and putting up numbers on Jamal Crawford. Not just against HS teams from small schools.

Yep I saw that video as well, in fact I've seen them all, for all three kids including Norvell's at Simeon High in chicago and Rui in FIBA's etc. He's not starting day one.

Worthington
10-12-2017, 07:02 PM
Yep I saw that video as well, in fact I've seen them all, for all three kids including Norvell's at Simeon High in chicago and Rui in FIBA's etc. He's not starting day one.

Bud Withers posted an interview with Mark Few on his blog today. Here are Few's quotes about the three wings in question.


-- Rui Hachimura: Hes great in the open court, great in space and just a physical specimen. But hes got some ways to go to be able to function in the half-court and use all this God-given athleticism.

-- Zach Norvell: Hes a streaky kind of kid. He does a nice job making plays with the basketball, but hes still got some areas defensively to work on.

-- Corey Kispert: Hes going to be really good. Hes tough, athletic and has great size.


You can read the full article here http://en.bloguru.com/GloryHounds/308496/a-few-good-minutes-with-the-gonzaga

btzag
10-12-2017, 07:39 PM
Bud Withers posted an interview with Mark Few on his blog today. Here are Few's quotes about the three wings in question.



You can read the full article here http://en.bloguru.com/GloryHounds/308496/a-few-good-minutes-with-the-gonzaga

Sigh.....believe what you want but he's not starting day one. I'm having flashback's to last offseason when the board was convinced that the Tillie kid was a for sure redshirt or that Melson was garbage. I'm sticking to my analysis; Rui starter at 3, Norvell first guard/wing off bench, Wade second guard off bench, Jones/Kispert 3rd wing off bench.

kitzbuel
10-12-2017, 08:47 PM
My suspicion is that regardless of who starts we will see a lot of Novell with Perkins and Melson.

Worthington
10-12-2017, 09:31 PM
Sigh.....believe what you want but he's not starting day one. I'm having flashback's to last offseason when the board was convinced that the Tillie kid was a for sure redshirt or that Melson was garbage. I'm sticking to my analysis; Rui starter at 3, Norvell first guard/wing off bench, Wade second guard off bench, Jones/Kispert 3rd wing off bench.

I don't think he starts day one, but it's been my position for a while that he's the starter by the end of the year.

Sure a year in the program is an advantage for Rui and Zach, but they are both extremely inexperienced division one basketball players. If Kispert has the basketball IQ, talent, and is the best fit, it doesn't seem very inconceivable to me at all that he could leapfrog two guys that have practically no in-game division one experience. That's just my semi-bold prediction though, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Rui or Zach started because I think they're both awesome players. Either way, I see all three players as big contributors this season.

amaronizag
10-12-2017, 10:54 PM
I attended the The 5th Annual Gonzaga Season Tip-off tonight. Tommy was supposed to speak on behalf of the men's basketball program. However, this afternoon I received an email stating that due to unforeseen scheduling changes, Coach Lloyd would be unable to speak this evening and he would be replaced with Stephen Gentry, Director of Men’s Basketball Operations. During the Q/A period, someone asked what his starting lineup would be. It caught him off guard, but he did address the question. He said it was still early, and that several players had a shot at the 3, but he thought Rui might get a shot at the 3 to give us some size, with J3 at the 4, and Tillie at the 5 to start the season. He made it clear that it was all far from settled. He also stated that Norvell would be in strong competition for the 2/3 and that he would get serious minutes as would Larson, Wade, and Kispert. Lots of possible lineups as we are only 10 days into practice. Reborn, I think you would have liked hearing that Rui might get a run at the 3.

amaronizag
10-12-2017, 10:57 PM
Forgot to mention, it was rumored that the reason Tommy couldn't speak tonight is that he had two secret recruits on campus and had to expend his energy on that rather that the Season Tip-off event tonight. Time well spent we hope.

cggonzaga
10-12-2017, 11:07 PM
I attended the The 5th Annual Gonzaga Season Tip-off tonight. Tommy was supposed to speak on behalf of the men's basketball program. However, this afternoon I received an email stating that due to unforeseen scheduling changes, Coach Lloyd would be unable to speak this evening and he would be replaced with Stephen Gentry, Director of Mens Basketball Operations. During the Q/A period, someone asked what his starting lineup would be. It caught him off guard, but he did address the question. He said it was still early, and that several players had a shot at the 3, but he thought Rui might get a shot at the 3 to give us some size, with J3 at the 4, and Tillie at the 5 to start the season. He made it clear that it was all far from settled. He also stated that Norvell would be in strong competition for the 2/3 and that he would get serious minutes as would Larson, Wade, and Kispert. Lots of possible lineups as we are only 10 days into practice. Reborn, I think you would have liked hearing that Rui might get a run at the 3.

Thanks amaron. Rui might be that rare Few exception where the raw talent outweighs the mental lapses. While he might make some boneheaded mistakes, the positives hell bring to the floor will be greater than the negatives.

jazzdelmar
10-13-2017, 05:37 AM
Forgot to mention, it was rumored that the reason Tommy couldn't speak tonight is that he had two secret recruits on campus and had to expend his energy on that rather that the Season Tip-off event tonight. Time well spent we hope.

He does have 2 on a visit. Petrusev and another.

jazzdelmar
10-13-2017, 05:38 AM
I attended the The 5th Annual Gonzaga Season Tip-off tonight. Tommy was supposed to speak on behalf of the men's basketball program. However, this afternoon I received an email stating that due to unforeseen scheduling changes, Coach Lloyd would be unable to speak this evening and he would be replaced with Stephen Gentry, Director of Men’s Basketball Operations. During the Q/A period, someone asked what his starting lineup would be. It caught him off guard, but he did address the question. He said it was still early, and that several players had a shot at the 3, but he thought Rui might get a shot at the 3 to give us some size, with J3 at the 4, and Tillie at the 5 to start the season. He made it clear that it was all far from settled. He also stated that Norvell would be in strong competition for the 2/3 and that he would get serious minutes as would Larson, Wade, and Kispert. Lots of possible lineups as we are only 10 days into practice. Reborn, I think you would have liked hearing that Rui might get a run at the 3.

Put in a bad spot, Gentry was shuffling I’m sure.

Goshzagit
10-13-2017, 05:58 AM
He does have 2 on a visit. Petrusev and another.

Petrusev and Richardson.

Don't know much about the former, but love the latter.

A ton of NWG in Richardson's game.

Looks like he's always moving slowly, but the game is as well.

Finds the right guy in the right place at the right time. Would be a huge get, but the kid is from Georgia.

Edit: I kept saying Williams, but meant Richardson, as his first name is William, and is from GA (Oak Hill Academy).

Seen here: Will Richardson (https://247sports.com/Player/Will-Richardson-89966)

He has already visited Georgia, Ohio St, Oregon, now Gonzaga. Surprised no So Cal teams = 4 corners of the map.

bartruff1
10-13-2017, 06:01 AM
He does have 2 on a visit. Petrusev and another.

Will Richardson, 4 star guard...as per Guru..

Reborn
10-13-2017, 07:55 AM
I attended the The 5th Annual Gonzaga Season Tip-off tonight. Tommy was supposed to speak on behalf of the men's basketball program. However, this afternoon I received an email stating that due to unforeseen scheduling changes, Coach Lloyd would be unable to speak this evening and he would be replaced with Stephen Gentry, Director of Men’s Basketball Operations. During the Q/A period, someone asked what his starting lineup would be. It caught him off guard, but he did address the question. He said it was still early, and that several players had a shot at the 3, but he thought Rui might get a shot at the 3 to give us some size, with J3 at the 4, and Tillie at the 5 to start the season. He made it clear that it was all far from settled. He also stated that Norvell would be in strong competition for the 2/3 and that he would get serious minutes as would Larson, Wade, and Kispert. Lots of possible lineups as we are only 10 days into practice. Reborn, I think you would have liked hearing that Rui might get a run at the 3.

Thanks for a very good post. It's always nice to hear from someone who was actually at an event. I wonder who was on campus yesterday. I was under the impression Will Richardson wasn't going to visiting until next week. It's a good idea though to have them both here the same weekend. I sure hope that all goes well. I would have liked being there. I think maybe next year I'll attend. I've never been to one. Gentry gave us a very good reason to start Rui. He is a very good rebounder, and the team is shorter this year at the 4, and 5. Rui led the team in rebounds in the scrimmage Saturday at KIK. I also like what Mark Few said in his interview with Withers which was that Rui is great in transition and in space. I wasn't sure what he meant when Few said he's very good in space. But I know he can fly. I was really impressed by Rui's dribbling and ball handling skills when he was leading a fast break. I saw it all the same way Gentry did from the beginning of our conversations this summer on who would be the starting five, ect. I have always believed that Norvell would come off the bench and get a lot of minutes at the two and three like Melson did last year. I thought that Wade would be a good back up for Perkins and may get some minutes at the two. Finally I've always believed that Larsen would not start but will be a very good player coming in off the bench.