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SLOZag
08-23-2017, 12:03 PM
A previous post about Deontae Hawkins, a potential 2017 senior transfer from Illinois State:


For some reason he lost interest in us. But it makes sense. I think Few is pretty set and satisfied with what he has.

Like Reborn, I tend to be puzzled when we fail to attract someone who we on this Board think would be a great addition to the team. While I've never been tempted to join the "whiff-sayers," I often wonder what "went wrong."

Reading an article about Hawkins (https://www.bcinterruption.com/2017/8/23/16190556/hawkins-takes-the-long-road-to-the-heights-boston-college-basketball), and his decision to [re]choose Boston College, I came across these comments that shed some light on the process in Hawkins' case:

"Hawkins’ high school coach, Mike Sturgess was consulted on where would be a good landing spot for Teddy [Hawkins' nickname] to play for his last year. Sturgess identified BC as a spot that could be a good fit. “I looked at the situation and I had a previous relationship with coach Spinelli when he was at Cincinnati. I knew he’d get Teddy everything he needs up there to try and take the next step to professional basketball. I looked at the roster and saw those two guards and I could see them being the best threesome in the country next year,” said Sturgess."

So ... the first point is that a trusted former coach's suggestion counts (no big surprise there).

Hawkins' mom offered that BC's coaches "had to earn [her son's] trust. [She] explained that her son had been burned by coaches before so finding the staff that he felt comfortable with and could trust was huge. ... Surprisingly enough, one of the ways that BC earned Hawkins’ trust was by sticking with him when he decided that he had to take a longer look at which school he wanted to attend."

Message for recruiters: Don't appear to be too anxious to seal the deal, as it can come across as trying too hard to SELL the deal.

And finally (and in my mind most useful):

"Teddy came back from LSU and said he didn’t feel he was a fit. He came back from Gonzaga and said he didn’t feel like he was a fit. He went to some other places and didn’t feel that he was a fit at those places. At the end he felt BC was where he felt the best connection,” said Meyers."

This is something that I tend to forget. BC, LSU and Gonzaga are not just thousands of miles apart. They also are miles apart in terms of style of play, team composition, the prospects they offer a senior transfer in one year to help prepare him for a pro career [Hawkins "wanted to go to the best place which could help him to get to the next level.], available minutes, academic expectations, and a host of other things. If a recruit comes on campus; if he gets to see and hear what we have to offer; if we get to see him interact with the coaching staff and any team members who may be available; and if he then decides to go elsewhere; then I for one am going to try to adjust my thinking so as to conclude: "Rats, while from the outside this looked like a marriage made in heaven, it seems like it wouldn't have turned out well. Better for us and for the recruit that this mismatch was detected early, rather than after a scholarship was extended and taken."

And if I REALLY liked the one that got away, I can always continue to hope we can recruit him a year or more down the line!

strikenowhere
08-23-2017, 12:34 PM
1a. Expected Playing Time
1b. Conference Affiliation

maynard g krebs
08-23-2017, 01:05 PM
1a. Expected Playing Time
1b. Conference Affiliation

That pretty much covers it. Not gonna get a guy like either of the Ill St pair to risk the possibility of playing 15 min a game as a senior trans.

GU recruiting is very much like niche product marketing; selling a product that fits a group with a special need, or a taste that's out of the ordinary or mainstream. The vast majority of players won't be interested, but those that love the style of play and buy in are the ones you want anyway. It's like you can do fine selling a product that 5 million people need or want out of a population of 300+ million; you don't always need to appeal to everyone. In basketball you just need to add 3 or 4 players a year on average, and it can be 5 or 6 one year and one or 2 the next.

Certain kids see the teamwork and style of play, and it's enough of an attraction that for them it outweighs the conference schedule. Kispert/ Norvell/ Wade/Ayayi are all great examples of guys who have a great instinct for the game and will move the ball and make the right read almost automatically. Perkins too; all probably could have gone to high major conferences.

Conference obviously isn't nearly as big a deal for the internationals, who don't grow up w/ the hype machine. For the American kids, with 4 star talent it's always gonna be one out of ten or twenty kids that show serious interest, and those are the ones you want anyway.

I'm not too worried about the current roster or open schollies. Sure, a rash of injuries could derail the season, but that can happen any year. It would be nice to see another big this year, but it would almost have to be a project type kid who didn't expect much pt his first year anyway, or somebody so good he'd be confident of beating out the existing bigs for a lot of pt. The first of those wouldn't help much anyway, and the second would be a bit like finding a unicorn.

I don't think recruiting has failed; I just think the existing roster is good enough that it's hard to convince kids that they wouldn't be sitting initially.

willandi
08-23-2017, 01:07 PM
1a. Expected Playing Time
1b. Conference Affiliation

I agree with 1a.

I disagree with 1b.

It has been shown that despite the WCC, the Zags are one of the top teams in the NCAA year after year. The Zags get as much, or more, tv time than almost any other team in the country, granted it isn't all on ESPN, but it all is available coast to coast. While they aren't in a P5 conference, if a recruit or transfer wants to play with the expectation of NCAA tournament play, the Zags are one of a small handful that matches that criteria.

While recruits and transfers are not promised PT, they are promised the chance to compete for as much PT as they earn. I feel that the coaching staffs honesty is a good thing, but some players may not truly believe that they will come out on top during practice. That is just conjecture on my part, however.

bartruff1
08-23-2017, 01:11 PM
Tommy's rule....fans don't know 5% of what is going on in recruiting ...

maynard g krebs
08-23-2017, 01:13 PM
Will, you really don't think that a lot of 4 and 5 star players don't dismiss GU out of hand based on playing mostly inferior competition in Jan and Feb?

Seems to me like wishful thinking.

tinfoilzag
08-23-2017, 01:21 PM
I would say GU does extremely well in the recruiting department. IMO the top challenges to recruiting are:

1. Conference
2. Academic requirements
3. Ethical requirements

kitzbuel
08-23-2017, 01:30 PM
I agree with 1a.

I disagree with 1b.

It has been shown that despite the WCC, the Zags are one of the top teams in the NCAA year after year. The Zags get as much, or more, tv time than almost any other team in the country, granted it isn't all on ESPN, but it all is available coast to coast. While they aren't in a P5 conference, if a recruit or transfer wants to play with the expectation of NCAA tournament play, the Zags are one of a small handful that matches that criteria.

While recruits and transfers are not promised PT, they are promised the chance to compete for as much PT as they earn. I feel that the coaching staffs honesty is a good thing, but some players may not truly believe that they will come out on top during practice. That is just conjecture on my part, however.

how well we play isn't directly related to recruits coming here. Zags play well despite not getting the same recruits UA, UW, or USC can get. Flash of the Football schools is hard to beat.

willandi
08-23-2017, 01:38 PM
Will, you really don't think that a lot of 4 and 5 star players don't dismiss GU out of hand based on playing mostly inferior competition in Jan and Feb?

Seems to me like wishful thinking.

If they do, it reflects poorly on the recruiting. Would a recruit rather play the poor teams of the WCC and go to the dance, or the poor teams of the ACC and sit at home?

Maybe I'm wrong. It just galls me that people throw that up every time. Hawkins decided on BC based on other things, or at least it seems to me. I will make a deal. If people quit using the WCC as the reason for not getting recruits, I will quit disagreeing with them.

kitzbuel
08-23-2017, 01:47 PM
If they do, it reflects poorly on the recruiting. Would a recruit rather play the poor teams of the WCC and go to the dance, or the poor teams of the ACC and sit at home?

Maybe I'm wrong. It just galls me that people throw that up every time. Hawkins decided on BC based on other things, or at least it seems to me. I will make a deal. If people quit using the WCC as the reason for not getting recruits, I will quit disagreeing with them.

Ok, I agree. Not playing in a Football conference is a disadvantage to our recruiting. :cool:

tinfoilzag
08-23-2017, 01:55 PM
For 5 star recruits, freshman year is their audition tape for the NBA draft. NBA teams want to see tape against other NBA-level talent. This means playing in power conferences.

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that conference isn't extremely important. http://pac-12.com/article/2017/06/22/pac-12-sets-league-record-14-selected-2017-nba-draft

maynard g krebs
08-23-2017, 02:07 PM
If they do, it reflects poorly on the recruiting. Would a recruit rather play the poor teams of the WCC and go to the dance, or the poor teams of the ACC and sit at home?



False choice, since 9 ACC teams made the tourney, and also because most of the WCC consists of teams outside the top 150 and almost all of the ACC is in the top 100.

The WCC is a huge disadvantage in recruiting v power 5 teams, and is consistently used against the Zags when they seek top recruits. It's just rational to acknowledge that; objective facts shouldn't "gall" anyone imo. I choose to look at it as remarkable that the Zags can recruit at the level they do. I never thought it would be possible when I jumped on the Zags' bandwagon, 20 years ago as of this December. I thought I'd always be rooting for under the radar NW kids, and the occasional Aussie or Bahamian.

MDABE80
08-23-2017, 02:31 PM
Same as it was and still is!: We get to the tournament and usually do well. We do it with unknowns, 3's and 4's.
I do think we are not thought of as a BIG TIME program despite successes. The only thing we don't have is a major league.a power 5 league.
I'd guess that's about the only thing we need. We go over this every year.
Chosing BC over GU doesn't make a lot of sense. But who says these kids make sense consistently. We do what we can given the limitations.
If I was was a GU Administrator, I'd be thinking why expand when things are going as well as they are?

Multiple problems (or hindrances) as more than one level. SO we a kid we wanted but couldn't provide court time for. Few's thinking we have better in house now. Likely he does. At the beginning of the off season, we kinda new we'd be losing Nigel and Collins. The SC game blew Collins out of college and on to the big board. Nigel? We can replace him with good players just not "Nigel" good. Overall we need a big to make 4 serious guys underneath, Few tried. Nothing for this years.

Sometime ya win and sometimes ya lose in recruiting. GU has one glaring deficiency and it's the WCC. This is the reason the country laffs when we get to the no 1 ranking or a no 1 seed. We know it. A few more FF's E 8's and they'll quit laffing. Frankly who gives a cht if they laff if we deliver a solid team. 3's 4's, hidden gems, and euros will have to do it.

bdmiller7
08-23-2017, 02:40 PM
Outside of Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, and Arizona most teams are lucky if they get 10 percent of the players they are after. There are a thousand factors that can influence where a kid will go to school and everyone has different things they are looking for. The argument that Gonzaga develops players and gets them to the NBA is weak. There are probably 40-50 schools that have 2 or 3 players in the league like GU. Gonzaga does well getting players that buy into the system. I don't get too worked up about missing out on recruits because I know they will end up getting the right players.

cggonzaga
08-23-2017, 02:46 PM
Saying we didn't succeed in recruiting is a misnomer. The staff has done such a good job recruiting the past few years there just isn't playing time available that 4-5* kids require. The writing is on the wall at every position (yes, even in the frontcourt) regarding playing time.

To play devil's advocate slightly, it may have hurt that our 5* recruit didn't even start a year ago.

Zagger
08-23-2017, 02:46 PM
Tommy's rule....fans don't know 5% of what is going on in recruiting ...

Yeppers! :)

cggonzaga
08-23-2017, 02:48 PM
There are probably 40-50 schools that have 2 or 3 players in the league like GU.

I'd be shocked if this was true. Maybe 20-30.


I stand corrected. 64 with 2 and 42 with 3.

1 Kentucky 24
2 Duke 19
3 Kansas 15
4 North Carolina 14
5 UCLA 13
6 Arizona 12
7 Syracuse 11
8 Florida 10
9 LSU 8
9 Texas 8
9 Washington 8
12 Michigan 7
12 Michigan St. 7
14 Marquette 6
14 UNLV 6
16 Connecticut 5
16 Georgetown 5
16 Georgia Tech 5
16 Indiana 5
16 Ohio St. 5
16 Southern Cal 5
16 Tennessee 5
16 Villanova 5
16 Wake Forest 5
25 Louisville 4
25 Maryland 4
25 Stanford 4
25 Vanderbilt 4
25 Virginia 4
25 Wisconsin 4
31 Arkansas 3
31 California 3
31 Creighton 3
31 Gonzaga 3
31 Memphis 3
31 Nevada 3
31 Notre Dame 3
31 Oklahoma St. 3
31 Saint Joseph's 3
31 Texas A&M 3
31 Utah 3
42 Alabama 2
42 Baylor 2
42 Boston College 2
42 Butler 2
42 Cincinnati 2
42 Clemson 2
42 Colorado 2
42 Fresno St. 2
42 Illinois 2
42 Kansas St. 2
42 Miami-FL 2
42 Missouri 2
42 Murray St. 2
42 Oklahoma 2
42 Oregon 2
42 Purdue 2
42 St. John's 2
42 St. Mary's 2
42 VCU 2
42 Washington St. 2
42 Weber St. 2
42 Wichita St. 2
42 Xavier 2

sittingon50
08-23-2017, 02:57 PM
"Why didn't we succeed in recruiting___________"

Biggs McGee.


It has been a slow & perilous slide since that fateful day.

willandi
08-23-2017, 03:34 PM
False choice, since 9 ACC teams made the tourney, and also because most of the WCC consists of teams outside the top 150 and almost all of the ACC is in the top 100.

The WCC is a huge disadvantage in recruiting v power 5 teams, and is consistently used against the Zags when they seek top recruits. It's just rational to acknowledge that; objective facts shouldn't "gall" anyone imo. I choose to look at it as remarkable that the Zags can recruit at the level they do. I never thought it would be possible when I jumped on the Zags' bandwagon, 20 years ago as of this December. I thought I'd always be rooting for under the radar NW kids, and the occasional Aussie or Bahamian.

I also believe that teams should play each team, in conference, home and away and that teams that are not .500 in conference should not get in. Th ACC and others somewhat game the system and the committee rewards those conferences anyway.

But hey! Don't use the excuse and I won't express my opinion!

The Zags do accomplish more, with less. It is too bad that some of the recruits can't see past the conference name when choosing a school.

soccerdud
08-23-2017, 03:47 PM
But hey! Don't use the excuse and I won't express my opinion!

The Zags do accomplish more, with less. It is too bad that some of the recruits can't see past the conference name when choosing a school.

i find you confusing. do you believe that our conference does NOT hurt us in recruiting (as you stated earlier)? or do you recognize that some "recruits can't see past the conference name when choosing a school"? these ideas seem mutually exclusive. or is your issue just with people mentioning the wcc as a factor, even though it clearly is?

maynard g krebs
08-23-2017, 03:49 PM
Don't use the excuse and I won't express my opinion!



I have no problem with anyone expressing an opinion. Mine is that it's an explanation, rather than an excuse.

The conference is a liability, pure and simple, and the staff has done a remarkable job of transcending that limitation. To disagree with that is to disrespect that remarkable job. In my opinion, of course.

thespywhozaggedme
08-23-2017, 05:29 PM
1a. Expected Playing Time
1b. Conference Affiliation

thread/

cjm720
08-23-2017, 05:40 PM
1a. Expected Playing Time
1b. Conference Affiliation

Reverse that and I have a feeling Few and Co doesn't soften playing time expectations (as other coaches may do).

The run will likely pay dividends more in the next couple years...especially when we make it back again ��!!!!!

SunDevilGolfZag
08-23-2017, 07:17 PM
The guys we have are probably laughing at this thread if they read it. I have faith in that group.

dhozagfan08
08-23-2017, 08:43 PM
i find you confusing. do you believe that our conference does NOT hurt us in recruiting (as you stated earlier)? or do you recognize that some "recruits can't see past the conference name when choosing a school"? these ideas seem mutually exclusive. or is your issue just with people mentioning the wcc as a factor, even though it clearly is?

+1
I tried typing a similar response to him several times, but deleted them all beciase they came of snarky.

willandi
08-23-2017, 09:01 PM
OK, you are all right. The WCC sucks. No team from the WCC will ever be number 1 or get to the NC game. The conference is just too much of a weight.

ScrapironJim
08-23-2017, 09:09 PM
These guys will be a lot of fun. The 2015 team that lost to Syracuse was just as much fun as last years team. Last years team would have been no more thrilling and entertaining even if they had won the championship. These kids are fun every year because every year is a shot at the championship. Very few schools can say that. Even the fan base is a greater joy than any other school. And we play with character every time out. That may be our greatest recruiting hurdle - integrity is our trademark.

soccerdud
08-23-2017, 09:24 PM
OK, you are all right. The WCC sucks. No team from the WCC will ever be number 1 or get to the NC game. The conference is just too much of a weight.

why is this so emotional for you? no one ever said that. few and the team were incredible last season, and they performed incredibly. but the conference unquestionably makes that more difficult to accomplish and sustain vs major conference schools. there's a difference between "makes something more difficult" and "makes something impossible" that your post doesn't seem to grasp.

if anything, recognizing this makes one more appreciative of our team and what they accomplished last season.

the point here isn't to diminish the competition we get from smc or byu (who would be right at home bball-wise in a major conf), or to unduly disparage the rest of the conference, who finally seem to be investing in/getting serious about improving their programs... but it is a fact that some recruits care about the conference. and pretending that ain't so makes no sense to me.

MDABE80
08-23-2017, 10:19 PM
We're veering off. Getting a little chippy.

gonzagafan62
08-23-2017, 11:15 PM
WCC and conference affiliation don't swing the opinions of as many recruits as this board thinks. Most of you guys take that to the bank which is the typical nonsense. It's true. We don't have the conference, we don't have the playing time some wants, we don't have the gym or facilities......

YET:

A) we still bring in a ton of 4 star/5 star talent

B) win a ton of games

C) always make the tournament

Now, most of you people should be able to read the name on a jersey. Can you read the name on our jerseys? Yes it says Gonzaga. We are a top 20 program in the nation.

You know who could get most recruits they want? There's only a few. Duke, North Carolina, Kansas and UCLA. Arizona has been on a hot streak lately and they'll make a final four and possibly win a title soon.

Unless you are those schools you really have to work hard at recruiting CLEAN! Remember especially the latter. We recruit clean folks. We sell family, chemistry and have been very fortunate we have had kids transfer and believe in us ...

Nigel
J3
Eric McClellan
Wiltjer
Wesley
Mathews
Jeremy jones

That's just recently..... those kids bought us. Can I repeat we've been extremely lucky???? We don't have dare I say the excitement to kids to make history anymore bc we just went to the final four. I think that has a small bit to do with it as well. Not much

I don't think anything is wrong with Gonzaga basketball or recruiting. We just have to stick with the process and keep going after kids. We haven't missed in many the last few years.... where's Nolan Norain? Where's Rodney Pryor? Yeah I don't know either.

Stop getting so upset about missing recruits and thinking the sky is falling with recruiting. It sycks to miss on what you think will be a great player.....

But this program keeps winning games and as a program has ascended to new heights and levels most of us didn't think was possible.

Just stop and think what you're typing. Especially with the conference stuff. It's all ludicrous garbage. What's real is we aren't a top5 program. We are going to have down years in recruiting. For the last 5 years until this summer we've been extremely lucky.

Now believe that!

tyra
08-24-2017, 05:52 AM
I frankly doubt we would have spent any time discussing this issue had Zach Collins returned. We recruited Kispert and Wade for this year, both excellent gets.

TheGonzagaFactor
08-24-2017, 06:31 AM
We did succeed in recruiting.

It's hard to get bench guys to transfer when they could start elsewhere.

We didn't recruit any transfers that would start. We will have a good starting 5 and some depth to go with it.

Success.

titopoet
08-24-2017, 07:19 AM
While I don't think WCC helps in recruiting, I don't think it hurts as much as others here do. Hawkins, after all, was coming from the MVC, a bit lower in the pecking order (especially after WSU leaving) than the WCC. GU would offer more exposure than a bottom feeding ACC team in terms of being on ESPN and being in the national conversation. BC, not so much. Plus, he would not have visited if WCC was a deal breaker. Finally, any negative the WCC has is more than overcome by GU international connections. Lloyd has helped many a Zag extend their careers overseas after they come here.

I believe Hawkins about not fitting in. Of course, that could mean a lot of things. Personality conflict with someone a team or as I prefer to think, after visiting and looking at the talent of Tillie, Larson, JW3 and Rui thinking he would not have much PT at all. Why spend his senior year playing less than 10 minutes?

Kiddwell
08-24-2017, 07:26 AM
We have not been able to recruit this upcoming year any high school bigs, JUCO bigs, transfer bigs, or grad bigs...because some USF Don put a whammy on us. Last year we had an incredible THREE footers. This year maybe Larsen in sneakers squeaks out 6-11 1/2.

We've had a footer for years and years. Not this year. It's a curse.

:boxing:

:[

MontanaCoyote
08-24-2017, 08:05 AM
Don't worry, be happy. So, we're "small," but we're beautiful. Would rather be small, beautiful and exceeding national expectations, than big with the burden of failure if not national champions. Cal wanted Shem. We got him. Collins, too, though a one and done. I'll take it. We have great kids, even if they're "just" 3's and 4's. Sit back and enjoy the ride!

gonzagafan62
08-24-2017, 08:05 AM
I mean seriously. Take some time to think about it. Would we ever get 4 star recruits to come here if it was just conference affiliation?

Sure we've been limited to I think just the 2 burger boys whom most of you seem obsessed with. Most of those guys are going to the Kentuckys dukes and UCLAs of the world.

By the way.... how'd that turn out for them? UNC and Gonzaga didn't have many combined mcdonalds all Americans. I don't think Villanova had one the year they won it.

It's basically the same as saying GU can't win because of the conference. The conference doesn't win out.....

It's the winning.

We just now FINALLY made our first final four. We keep going to final fours, we will get the better recruiting.

Winning is everything.

TexasZag
08-24-2017, 08:09 AM
If they do, it reflects poorly on the recruiting. Would a recruit rather play the poor teams of the WCC and go to the dance, or the poor teams of the ACC and sit at home?

Maybe I'm wrong. It just galls me that people throw that up every time. Hawkins decided on BC based on other things, or at least it seems to me. I will make a deal. If people quit using the WCC as the reason for not getting recruits, I will quit disagreeing with them.

It's also important to note that these top recruits see themselves as difference-makers. They believe they can be the difference between a power conference school playing sub-500 ball and missing the tournament and winning/earning a bid. I also agree with tinfoilzag that many of these guys realize that with only a handful of draft positions available, you're better-served to show that night in and night out, you can compete against the best. Conference affiliation has got to be a factor.

zagfan24
08-24-2017, 08:44 AM
Not all recruits prioritize the same thing, but to suggest that some don't consider conference affiliation seems laughable to me, especially looking at the recruiting rankings and considering the track record of UW recruiting with Romar. Clearly, there is more to it than just winning.

In general, I would say that the following factors are usually among the most pressing for recruits: immediate playing time, location (close to home), weather, nba and player development track record, winning record in march, and coach/playing style fit. Depending on the recruit, they may arrange those factors in a different order, but my guess is they are all considered by most. I think GU is doing just fine and will continue to find the right guys for the system. A few years ago there was clearly a dip, and things have been cleaned up noticeably since then.

bartruff1
08-24-2017, 09:10 AM
It seems silly to me to argue about something like this.....

some 4/5 stars would not consider Gonzaga to do their audition for the NBA...

and on the other hand ,

there may be 3/4 stars that want to play and graduate and go to the Dance....

and in that case, the WCC might be a advantage....

one size fits all is seldom the most plausible opinion... they all have their own reasons...

soccerdud
08-24-2017, 10:11 AM
I mean seriously. Take some time to think about it. Would we ever get 4 star recruits to come here if it was just conference affiliation?

Sure we've been limited to I think just the 2 burger boys whom most of you seem obsessed with. Most of those guys are going to the Kentuckys dukes and UCLAs of the world.

By the way.... how'd that turn out for them? UNC and Gonzaga didn't have many combined mcdonalds all Americans. I don't think Villanova had one the year they won it.

It's basically the same as saying GU can't win because of the conference. The conference doesn't win out.....

It's the winning.

We just now FINALLY made our first final four. We keep going to final fours, we will get the better recruiting.

Winning is everything.

i feel like when we say "conference has an effect on the decisions of some recruits and the WCC generally doesn't help", you hear BCS trolls chanting "GU SUCKS THEY'LL NEVER WIN ANYTHING WCC LOL". i agree with everything you say here, except for the strawmen ("... it was just conference affiliation" and "...GU can't win because of the conference...") that you seem to be attributing to whoever you think you're arguing with.

zagfan1
08-26-2017, 12:30 PM
The conference argument is overrated. It's all about style of play, playing time, and tournament exposure. We have a very talented group coming back. We will beat Villanova, UW, Creighton, and San Diego State next year!

gonzagafan62
08-26-2017, 12:33 PM
The conference argument is overrated. It's all about style of play, playing time, and tournament exposure. We have a very talented group coming back. We will beat Villanova, UW, Creighton, and San Diego State next year!

Ohio state too.

ZagDad84
08-26-2017, 04:15 PM
You have to wonder how many on this board have ever taken a 16/17 year old kid on a college tour. Based on my three (3) kids, there is no "one" reason a kid will select on college over another. Here is just a few comments from my kids during some of their college tours.

Toured Creighton and Vanderbilt on the same trip in Mid-February. It was high teens in Spokane when we left, -5 Deg. in Omaha and 57 Deg. in Nashville. Nashville felt pretty darn good compared to Spokane and Omaha. Time of the site visit and the associated weather can certainly have an impact to some students.

Same trip, supported the local scalpers and went to a sold-out, white-out "Vanderbilt/Florida" BB game. My boys were stocked to be able to watch Vandy and Florida play. Hate to say it, but most athletes don't grow up hoping to play St. Marys someday. However, playing in a power 5 conference and against those teams you see every week on TV has some great appeal. Why GU plays numerous power 5 conference teams every year, they don't play 10-16 games against power 5 conference teams. Pick any power 5 conference school and compare their conference home schedule to GUs conference home schedule. From a non-biased point of view, when taken as a whole, which schedule would you want to see? Yes conference affiliation does impact the selection of some athletes.

Amenities offered to the student can certainly impact the college decision. Vandy went to great effort to treat freshman with particular effort and it was appreciated by all of the freshman we spoke with. Do not discount the "wow" factor of a university. Toured Western Washington in April on probably the only sunny day in April in Bellingham. It was 70 Deg and on the tour, of course they took all of the people on the tour to the dorm with the best view of the bay and showed a room with a 5-star resort view of the bay. It does not matter that the view may only be visible a few days during the school year and that by far and away, freshman would not get the room selections with the view, but the impression the gave was yes, these rooms were available. Sell the school. Whatever amenities you can show to the prospective student, will have some impact on the their college selection.

My daughter, from the time she was in grade school wanted to be a Zag. She had some wonderful experiences at Boston College, Creighton and Villanova during her visits and overnights. Despite being offered some excellent scholarships from all over the US (UCLA, UW, Creighton, Boston College, Villanova, etc.), she went to GU. Why? Because nothing she saw at the other colleges overcame her long held desire to be a Zag. Who your parents and friends root for will have some impact on the college selection. Sometimes, the kid simply wants to follow their long held dreams, no matter what.

Based on my very limited experience with 5-star athletes, they all feel they are going to start no matter where they go to school. It does not matter if Kentucky has ten 5-star athletes and they typically run a 7- or 8-man rotation and there will be more than one 5-star sitting on the bench, it does not keep these athletes from going to Kentucky. Why, because they are not going to be the one riding the pine. After a year of not starting, reality may set in and a desire for may playing time may take precedence, but initially, playing time is probably not a major consideration for a 5-star athlete.

In my opinion, academics are not much of a consideration by 5-star athletes. They are going to go to school to get them ready for the NBA. College is simply a means to an end. The less likely a person is to make a living playing basketball, the more academics will impact their decision, however, this is not the 5-star and many of the 4-star recruits. Remember, we are talking high school kids and their initial college selection. Transfers and Grad-Transfers likely have a different view and academics may have more of an impact.

Conversely, a transfer or grad-transfer now knows what they want and the make-up of their new team and playing time will have a significant impact on their decision.

In summary, in my opinion, by pigeon-holing a recruit's college selection to a single facet is doing a disservice to the student. There is no any one or two reasons college recruits select the colleges they do although one or two reasons may put one school over the top. GU will never be able to offer all of (although it is getting much closer) the amenities a power 5 conference school can offer. They will almost always get out "wowed". GU needs to focus on what it does best, college development of players, NCAA tournament experience, the Kennel experience, etc. Some recruits will buy into the GU pitch others will not. Their are some players, who will never buy into the GU pitch for whatever reason. There is nothing wrong with a recruit selecting somebody other than GU if the recruit feels another school is a better fit for them. Sometimes GU will get a second (and sometimes a third) chance at the same recruit down the road when the shine wears out on that initial selection.

Getting worked-up over the reasons a recruit selects a college different than GU is a waste of energy as is trying to figure out the reasoning of most 16/17 year olds.

ZagDad

soccerdud
08-26-2017, 07:36 PM
great post, zd.

Ezag
08-26-2017, 10:30 PM
OK, you are all right. The WCC sucks. No team from the WCC will ever be number 1 or get to the NC game. The conference is just too much of a weight.

In your sarcasm and not counting Gonzaga, you are basically correct, sir!