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gu03alum
08-01-2017, 01:16 PM
Georgetown menís basketball will not participate in PK80 Phil Knight Invitational (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/08/01/georgetown-mens-basketball-will-not-participate-in-pk80-phil-knight-invitational/?utm_term=.08fb3549a0fc)


The Georgetown menís basketball team will not participate in the PK80 Phil Knight Invitational over Thanksgiving weekend in Portland, The Washington Post confirmed Tuesday.

The Hoyas, led by first-year Coach Patrick Ewing, had initially been selected to play in the ďVictoryĒ bracket of the 16-team tournament, alongside Michigan State, North Carolina, Oregon, Oklahoma, U-Conn., Portland and Arkansas. The event is scheduled to celebrate Nike founder Phil Knightís birthday.

DePaul will replace Georgetown.

jazzdelmar
08-01-2017, 02:32 PM
Georgetown men’s basketball will not participate in PK80 Phil Knight Invitational (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/08/01/georgetown-mens-basketball-will-not-participate-in-pk80-phil-knight-invitational/?utm_term=.08fb3549a0fc)

That's an upgrade.

gonzagafan62
08-01-2017, 02:37 PM
Georgetown wasn't good anyway. Just a name

VaBeachZAG
08-01-2017, 02:41 PM
That's an upgrade.

Without a doubt, this is not a tournament for the faint of hart.

SLOZag
08-01-2017, 02:50 PM
Bring in Saint Marys!

SLOZag
08-01-2017, 03:01 PM
Bring in Saint Marys!

Shucks ... Dayton got there first.

Zagceo
08-01-2017, 03:45 PM
Bring in Saint Marys!

doubt a team that was sponsored by Under Armour last year would get the invite......even if they changed sponsors this year

sittingon50
08-01-2017, 04:11 PM
Bring in Saint Marys!

1. Would have to be at the expense of U. of Portland, and since that's where the tourney is....

2. Ceo is correct; it's a Nike thing.

Norwester
08-01-2017, 04:30 PM
Bring in Saint Marys!

SMC is not a Nike school. They're outfitted by Under Armour.

seacatfan
08-01-2017, 04:31 PM
Wow, surprised anyone would decline to participate. This is a huge event. Kinda shaky start for Mr. Ewing at his alma mater.

ZagaZags
08-01-2017, 04:31 PM
Shucks ... Dayton got there first.

De Paul replaced Georgetown.

seacatfan
08-01-2017, 04:33 PM
And DePaul seems like a weak replacement. Maybe nobody else in the Big East had the flexibility to make this work...but it sure seems like they could've done better.

phxfireflames
08-01-2017, 05:24 PM
And DePaul seems like a weak replacement. Maybe nobody else in the Big East had the flexibility to make this work...but it sure seems like they could've done better.

The PK80 tournament teams were selected 5 plus years in advance, many top teams are already committed to these tournaments a couple years beforehand

jazzdelmar
08-01-2017, 05:29 PM
DePaul is in Chicago. Huge TV market.

thespywhozaggedme
08-01-2017, 05:53 PM
DePaul is in Chicago. Huge TV market.

What good is the market if no one is actually watching the product? I doubt anybody in Chicago watches DePaul basketball.

jazzdelmar
08-01-2017, 06:08 PM
What good is the market if no one is actually watching the product? I doubt anybody in Chicago watches DePaul basketball.

You miss the point. A week of p.r. bombards the Chicago media that, while DePaul focused, entices Chicagoland viewers to watch the whole extravaganza, not just the Demon game. Haven't you noticed whenever ESPN or FOX has a big national game there is a run up of articles in your local papers on various angles that mean next to nothing but build interest.

bartruff1
08-01-2017, 07:04 PM
That's a shame...Georgetown is big time....what is a DePaul ?

MDABE80
08-01-2017, 07:48 PM
I'm sure the Chicago market would watch because of the quality of the tournament which is world
Class. DePaul got lucky to get the invite.

thespywhozaggedme
08-01-2017, 07:57 PM
You miss the point. A week of p.r. bombards the Chicago media that, while DePaul focused, entices Chicagoland viewers to watch the whole extravaganza, not just the Demon game. Haven't you noticed whenever ESPN or FOX has a big national game there is a run up of articles in your local papers on various angles that mean next to nothing but build interest.

Basketball fans are going to watch the game regardless of where they live. I doubt someone's gonna say "oh DePaul is in this tourney think I'm going to watch it now."

jazzdelmar
08-01-2017, 11:33 PM
There are no random actions in big time CBB, especially if Mother Nike is involved. Perhaps it's an homage to Ray Meyer or simply filing in a Big East slot, there's a reason, likely pecuniary, that DePaul was added.

GonzagasaurusFlex
08-02-2017, 02:08 AM
Wow, surprised anyone would decline to participate. This is a huge event. Kinda shaky start for Mr. Ewing at his alma mater.

Exactly. Makes no sense to me why the Hoyas would decline the national exposure this tournament will provide and the Georgetown basketball brand so desperately needs of late.

Maybe the Hoyas are leaving Nike?

Bogozags
08-02-2017, 02:49 AM
Exactly. Makes no sense to me why the Hoyas would decline the national exposure this tournament will provide and the Georgetown basketball brand so desperately needs of late.

Maybe the Hoyas are leaving Nike?

Very good point...maybe Ewing has ties to another shoe company; therefore, he would have to drop from that tournament...IMO

bartruff1
08-02-2017, 05:33 AM
I saw what it took to get to the FF when I saw Georgetown win the opening rounds at WSU in 1982 with Ewing, Sleepy Floyd and Fred Brown...

They went on to lose (barely) to North Carolina with Jordan, Perkins, Doherty, Worthy....some freshman won the game with a last second shot for Dean Smith.

They had great poise and determination and discipline playing far from home in a very hostile environment....very impressive...

Zagceo
08-02-2017, 06:02 AM
Might have something to do with change

http://georgetownvoice.com/2017/01/03/university-allows-nike-contract-to-expire-while-protesters-face-student-conduct-meetings/ (http://georgetownvoice.com/2017/01/03/university-allows-nike-contract-to-expire-while-protesters-face-student-conduct-meetings/)

TheGonzagaFactor
08-02-2017, 06:24 AM
Bring in Saint Marys!

Of course, let them ride GU's coat tails even more than they already do!

In all seriousness, I doubt SMC would take the invite even if they were a Nike school.

They'd have to play Michigan State and possibly Oregon - no way Bennett would put his team through that. I doubt he'd accept even if this were in CA, the competition is too tough.

bartruff1
08-02-2017, 06:46 AM
The Gaels played very well in the Tourney last year..... and they have also played well in the past against very good competition ..

gonzagafan62
08-02-2017, 07:48 AM
Georgetown didn't wanna get embarrassed. They have not been good last few years

CDC84
08-02-2017, 08:08 AM
It's obvious that it won't happen next season, but I expect to see an upswing in DePaul basketball, and yes, that means that more Chicago people will be watching. After years and years and years of playing at what is considered to be one of the 3 to 4 worst sporting venues in the nation, All State Arena (formerly known as the Rosemont Horizon) - an arena that is not even IN Chicago - the Blue Demons finally have a new arena that is located in Chicago that seats around 10,000 folks instead of 18,500 or whatever All State holds. I doubt we will ever see the Ray Meyer years come back, but I think DePaul isn't going to be the dormat program that we are accustomed to. Facilities make a difference.

kitzbuel
08-02-2017, 10:34 AM
Might have something to do with change

http://georgetownvoice.com/2017/01/03/university-allows-nike-contract-to-expire-while-protesters-face-student-conduct-meetings/ (http://georgetownvoice.com/2017/01/03/university-allows-nike-contract-to-expire-while-protesters-face-student-conduct-meetings/)

Ah ha. I was trying to find something along this line. This would be why. There is no way Coach Ewing would do it because it destroys his OOC schedule. They are short a ton (I think like 9) games.

Zagdawg
08-02-2017, 10:37 AM
Maybe bring them out for an OCC game in the future - that would work if they are having challenges scheduling some games.

maynard g krebs
08-02-2017, 11:11 AM
Of course, let them ride GU's coat tails even more than they already do!

In all seriousness, I doubt SMC would take the invite even if they were a Nike school.

They'd have to play Michigan State and possibly Oregon - no way Bennett would put his team through that. I doubt he'd accept even if this were in CA, the competition is too tough.

Actually, SMC played Oregon 3 times in a 2 for 1 deal; 2 at UO and 1 at SMC. Patty Mills era; he played in 1 or 2 of those games. UO had recently made the E8 at that time.

Also disagree w/ the "coattails" remark, for the reason that if GU wasn't in the WCC, SMC would get the auto bid almost every year, rather than fight for an at large.

CodeCobalt
08-02-2017, 12:28 PM
damn! what a tournament! Sucks that the host school has to take on the national champion first round, you'd think they'd get a choice picking. Does the winner of each bracket face each other? unlikely, but how cool would it be to see UNC VS Gonzaga again

GonzagasaurusFlex
08-02-2017, 12:46 PM
Might have something to do with change

http://georgetownvoice.com/2017/01/03/university-allows-nike-contract-to-expire-while-protesters-face-student-conduct-meetings/ (http://georgetownvoice.com/2017/01/03/university-allows-nike-contract-to-expire-while-protesters-face-student-conduct-meetings/)

Thanks for finding and posting this Zagceo. Pretty clear, given context your linked article from Georgetown's student newspaper provides, the Hoyas pulling out of PK80 is related to Nike not signing Georgetown's standard licensing contract. Good for Georgetown and especially the Georgetown students forcing their institution to walk the walk of their Jesuit identity by being consistent in requiring all companies to sign their licensing contract.

Rough on the new coach and the players though. Ouch.

Dare I ask if Gonzaga does anything similar to assure the companies it gets into bed with abide by fair labor / human rights standards and allow watchdog groups to keep them honest. I guess not, as it seems the almighty Swish does not deign to do so. Hmmmmm

Zagdawg
08-02-2017, 01:41 PM
All the major sports clothing brands are put together in various countries with suspect labor rules and facilities.............. except maybe Big Baller brand.

MDABE80
08-02-2017, 03:42 PM
"In a statement, Cal Watson, chair of the Licensing Oversight Committee (LOC), said the university wants the new contract to include independent monitoring of and reporting from the Worker Rights Consortium (WRC) on Nike factories where Georgetown apparel is produced. The university has also asked that Nike adhere to the principles of its licensee Code of Conduct, which asks companies using the Georgetown brand to conduct their business in a socially responsible way “consistent with its Jesuit tradition"


Another model of how a great university becomes average at best. Makes it very hard to run a competitive high end basketball program too considering the extra hoops to jump through.. Although far flung from the basketball courts, the social concerns of a few kids ( right or wrong) will be heard! Ain't life great;)

bartruff1
08-02-2017, 04:28 PM
Some things are more important than a high end basketball program.. probably most things ...

Edited to add, my apologies Abe, I know you have done more that most anyone to help the less fortunate...

GonzagasaurusFlex
08-02-2017, 05:49 PM
"In a statement, Cal Watson, chair of the Licensing Oversight Committee (LOC), said the university wants the new contract to include independent monitoring of and reporting from the Worker Rights Consortium (WRC) on Nike factories where Georgetown apparel is produced. The university has also asked that Nike adhere to the principles of its licensee Code of Conduct, which asks companies using the Georgetown brand to conduct their business in a socially responsible way “consistent with its Jesuit tradition"


Another model of how a great university becomes average at best. Makes it very hard to run a competitive high end basketball program too considering the extra hoops to jump through.. Although far flung from the basketball courts, the social concerns of a few kids ( right or wrong) will be heard! Ain't life great;)

Actually, Abe, it's a model of how a Catholic Jesuit institution remains authentic; a model of how not to allow the tail (athletics) to wag the dog (institutional identity). You can't pride yourself on loving Gonzaga's Jesuit, Catholic identity on the one hand without respecting what Georgetown's students are doing here: challenging the school to abide by its own rules and identity.

MickMick
08-02-2017, 07:42 PM
Worker exploitation is so integrated into our consumer choices that it would take a very dedicated effort to sort through it all. How many parts in that widget came from slave labor? Some items have hundreds of parts.

Having said that, I applaud the statement being made by Georgetown. You have to start somewhere. Bold move on their part and a success with respect to raising awareness,

Vman7
08-02-2017, 10:26 PM
Worker exploitation is so integrated into our consumer choices that it would take a very dedicated effort to sort through it all. How many parts in that widget came from slave labor? Some items have hundreds of parts.

Having said that, I applaud the statement being made by Georgetown. You have to start somewhere. Bold move on their part and a success with respect to raising awareness,

My sister and her family have been missionaries in poor town in Nicaragua for the past 19 years. An American apparel company opened up a factory in the town. Average wage was $.58/hour. Not enough? Perhaps by our standards, but for the impoverished natives of that town it was considered the best job in town and likely the most any of them would get paid in their lifetime. Suddenly families could afford to send their kids to school because two parents working at the factory could make enough income for a family to feed, house and clothe themselves.

But, alas, the high minded, well intentioned folks in the US. The ones driving their SUVs living in their air conditioned houses, sending their kids to places like Gonzaga and Georgetown screamed "exploitation!". They insisted on following their "Jesuit" ideals. An organized boycott followed and the American company was forced to close the Nicaraguan factory down. Americans cheered as the poor Central Americans fell back into their dirty, poor, desperate existence that they have very little chance of ever escaping.

My sister and her family have gone about their business of truly trying help these people through building education facilities and soup kitchens. But she pleaded with me put this issue in it's full context whenever I came across it in my interactions with other Americans.

MDABE80
08-02-2017, 10:51 PM
My sister and her family have been missionaries in poor town in Nicaragua for the past 19 years. An American apparel company opened up a factory in the town. Average wage was $.58/hour. Not enough? Perhaps by our standards, but for the impoverished natives of that town it was considered the best job in town and likely the most any of them would get paid in their lifetime. Suddenly families could afford to send their kids to school because two parents working at the factory could make enough income for a family to feed, house and clothe themselves.

But, alas, the high minded, well intentioned folks in the US. The ones driving their SUVs living in their air conditioned houses, sending their kids to places like Gonzaga and Georgetown screamed "exploitation!". They insisted on following their "Jesuit" ideals. An organized boycott followed and the American company was forced to close the Nicaraguan factory down. Americans cheered as the poor Central Americans fell back into their dirty, poor, desperate existence that they have very little chance of ever escaping.

My sister and her family have gone about their business of truly trying help these people through building education facilities and soup kitchens. But she pleaded with me put this issue in it's full context whenever I came across it in my interactions with other Americans.

Very good post Vman. Thanks for your input n this. Paid for kids by wealthy parents have ideals. For those of us who've traveled and seen how the rest of the world lives, their protestations of companies who actually help the poor and downtrodden, sometimes don't speak from experience or reality. But this post has veered into Crosby territory. I must recuse at this point. Best wishes Vman. I honor your service.

jazzdelmar
08-03-2017, 04:07 AM
OMG, don't get me started when it comes to hypocrisy and GT's basketball program. Apologies to NJZag, wherever you are...

MickMick
08-03-2017, 05:11 AM
Very good post Vman. Thanks for your input n this. Paid for kids by wealthy parents have ideals. For those of us who've traveled and seen how the rest of the world lives, their protestations of companies who actually help the poor and downtrodden, sometimes don't speak from experience or reality. But this post has veered into Crosby territory. I must recuse at this point. Best wishes Vman. I honor your service.



Let me start with "For those of us that have traveled and seen how the rest of the world lives."

How presumptuous.

With respect to the people happy to be making .58 cents an hour. I suppose they are all very happy until they find the doors are locked on their burning building. Is this isolated story supposed to the ultimate "representative sample"? Or is it just a singular example in a sea of work environment permutations?


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/world/asia/bangladesh-fire-kills-more-than-100-and-injures-many.html


Tensions have been running high between workers, who have been demanding an increase in minimum wages, and the factory owners and government. A union organizer, Aminul Islam, who campaigned for better working conditions and higher wages, was found tortured and killed outside Dhaka this year.

zagfan24
08-03-2017, 06:37 AM
An organized boycott followed and the American company was forced to close the Nicaraguan factory down. Americans cheered as the poor Central Americans fell back into their dirty, poor, desperate existence that they have very little chance of ever escaping...

An interesting context to add indeed. But I'll dispute the phrase "forced to close the factory down." The company made that choice, in order to avoid protests and protect it's image, most likely. When others raise awareness of a company prioritizing maximum profit over human rights, the choice to continue pursuing maximum profit is hardly a forced one.

Bogozags
08-03-2017, 06:47 AM
Thanks for finding and posting this Zagceo. Pretty clear, given context your linked article from Georgetown's student newspaper provides, the Hoyas pulling out of PK80 is related to Nike not signing Georgetown's standard licensing contract. Good for Georgetown and especially the Georgetown students forcing their institution to walk the walk of their Jesuit identity by being consistent in requiring all companies to sign their licensing contract.

Rough on the new coach and the players though. Ouch.

Dare I ask if Gonzaga does anything similar to assure the companies it gets into bed with abide by fair labor / human rights standards and allow watchdog groups to keep them honest. I guess not, as it seems the almighty Swish does not deign to do so. Hmmmmm

Great question but is it opening Pandora's Box?

It is easy to "talk the talk" and much harder to "walk the walk"...IMO

hondo
08-03-2017, 06:52 AM
An interesting DePaul history at All State/ Rosemont Horizon:http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/022817aaa.html

zagfan1
08-03-2017, 07:39 AM
All the major sports clothing brands are put together in various countries with suspect labor rules and facilities.............. except maybe Big Baller brand.

They all (Nike, Adidas etc all) have issues. Not sure why this is so emotional now as opposed to ten years ago. They should have played because this tarnishes Georgetown's image. Can't rely on them to commit to tournaments in the future.

LongIslandZagFan
08-03-2017, 07:43 AM
Wow, surprised anyone would decline to participate. This is a huge event. Kinda shaky start for Mr. Ewing at his alma mater.

Could be that he has a good gauge of what he has and considering the bracket his team was in... that nothing positive could come from a bunch of losses?

Zaga
08-03-2017, 07:47 AM
My sister and her family have been missionaries in poor town in Nicaragua for the past 19 years. An American apparel company opened up a factory in the town. Average wage was $.58/hour. Not enough? Perhaps by our standards, but for the impoverished natives of that town it was considered the best job in town and likely the most any of them would get paid in their lifetime. Suddenly families could afford to send their kids to school because two parents working at the factory could make enough income for a family to feed, house and clothe themselves.

But, alas, the high minded, well intentioned folks in the US. The ones driving their SUVs living in their air conditioned houses, sending their kids to places like Gonzaga and Georgetown screamed "exploitation!". They insisted on following their "Jesuit" ideals. An organized boycott followed and the American company was forced to close the Nicaraguan factory down. Americans cheered as the poor Central Americans fell back into their dirty, poor, desperate existence that they have very little chance of ever escaping.

My sister and her family have gone about their business of truly trying help these people through building education facilities and soup kitchens. But she pleaded with me put this issue in it's full context whenever I came across it in my interactions with other Americans.

Thanks for the post Vman!

Vman7
08-03-2017, 09:25 AM
Let me start with "For those of us that have traveled and seen how the rest of the world lives."

How presumptuous.

With respect to the people happy to be making .58 cents an hour. I suppose they are all very happy until they find the doors are locked on their burning building. Is this isolated story supposed to the ultimate "representative sample"? Or is it just a singular example in a sea of work environment permutations?


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/world/asia/bangladesh-fire-kills-more-than-100-and-injures-many.html


Tensions have been running high between workers, who have been demanding an increase in minimum wages, and the factory owners and government. A union organizer, Aminul Islam, who campaigned for better working conditions and higher wages, was found tortured and killed outside Dhaka this year.

Of course, every circumstance and situation is not the same. My purpose was to encourage folks to see the larger picture and not to have a knee-jerk reaction on passing moral judgment.

When shown this thread, my missionary sister, who has traveled to multiple countries in Central America cautioned that things aren't always as they seem or are being reported. She said that the union organizers are often funded, supported and encouraged from actors outside of the community who don't have the local residents best interest in mind. Sometimes it's the national or local government officials who fear losing a key source of taxation/extortion. Sometimes the "union organizers" biggest detractors are the workers themselves who know that union agitation could threaten their livelihood.

So anytime you hear that a "union organizer" faces opposition (or worse), it's not always the companies/managers who are guilty.

This is the last I will say of the topic because I know this is a sports forum and people use it to get away from the ugliness of the outside world.....so, can't wait for football to be over so basketball can start!

thebigsmoove
08-03-2017, 09:35 AM
It's obvious that it won't happen next season, but I expect to see an upswing in DePaul basketball, and yes, that means that more Chicago people will be watching. After years and years and years of playing at what is considered to be one of the 3 to 4 worst sporting venues in the nation, All State Arena (formerly known as the Rosemont Horizon) - an arena that is not even IN Chicago - the Blue Demons finally have a new arena that is located in Chicago that seats around 10,000 folks instead of 18,500 or whatever All State holds. I doubt we will ever see the Ray Meyer years come back, but I think DePaul isn't going to be the dormat program that we are accustomed to. Facilities make a difference.

I dont know how everyone skipped over this. Very insightful and promising for the blue demons. Im looking forward to seeing if they can regain their former glory.

MDABE80
08-03-2017, 09:38 AM
I probably should apologize to the Mick. I've done missions in Brazil in the 80s, Croatia in the 90's interspersed with the Creighton (Sili may remember Joe Lynch MD) group in central America as well as put up free clinics in S Central and E LA.
In America we get used to the unions or "prevailing" and think the rest of the world should behave like we do when it comes to workers. The rest of the world ( if you go see it or volunteer for service) is nothing like our world in the US. Mick, I should have said something different. I've been to the world in my travels and service. $0.58 per hour in some areas keeps families alive. Unless you'd have seen it, you might think it's horrible. It is by American standards. Best wishes.

jazzdelmar
08-03-2017, 11:11 AM
I dont know how everyone skipped over this. Very insightful and promising for the blue demons. Im looking forward to seeing if they can regain their former glory.


Not me. I said DePaul is an upgrade. With a major TV audience. And was booed off the stage. Sigh.

maynard g krebs
08-03-2017, 11:38 AM
I spent almost a decade importing textiles from mostly Guatemala, and later a couple of buying trips to Nepal. What Vman says is true, but only part of the story.

In the 80's when knockoffs of traditional Mayan textile design became wildly popular as clothing and accessories in the U.S and Europe, many poor Mayan families in Guatemala started doing a lot better economically. It was common for Mayan kids (Guate was 60% Mayan at the time; not sure now) to not be able to go to school because their families couldn't afford to buy notebooks and pens/pencils, which students had to supply. When the textile industry was booming, a lot of those kids became able to go to school, and people could afford things like bicycles and radios, sometimes even a small black and white tv.

But there's a flipside to this, which I've experienced first hand. In 1954, a US backed coup overthrew a democratically elected government in Guatemala, one which was redistributing unused land to peasants (a sixth of the population, 500k people at the time), established a minimum wage etc. The goal was a liberal democracy. Wikipedia has a pretty good account of this. After the coup, a military dictatorship was installed and all the progressive policies were ended.

My ex-wife is Guatemalan, and her grandparents owned a cattle ranch and banana plantation between Guatemala city and the Atlantic coast. Someone, it was never clear who, burned their house to the ground some time in the 50's. They were "given an offer they couldn't refuse", enough money to buy a small house in Guatemala City and start a family restaurant. Had they refused, they would have been dead.

On a trip to the coast that we made, she wanted to show me the old homestead. Remnants of the burned out foundation were still there. A few hundred yards away, a dozen international corporate banana trucks were lined up on the roadside. United Fruit Co I think.

When I first crossed the border from Mexico into Guate in 1984, the bus was stopped about a dozen times in the first 20 km, and inspected by soldiers checking for guerillas, in the aftermath of the latest peak of peasant uprising in the late 70's/early 80's, when buildings in downtown Guate Cite were still being blown up by rebels a quarter century after the coup.

And this post is strictly fact; no opinion whatsoever.

soccerdud
08-03-2017, 12:00 PM
I spent almost a decade importing textiles from mostly Guatemala, and later a couple of buying trips to Nepal. What Vman says is true, but only part of the story.

In the 80's when knockoffs of traditional Mayan textile design became wildly popular as clothing and accessories in the U.S and Europe, many poor Mayan families in Guatemala started doing a lot better economically. It was common for Mayan kids (Guate was 60% Mayan at the time; not sure now) to not be able to go to school because their families couldn't afford to buy notebooks and pens/pencils, which students had to supply. When the textile industry was booming, a lot of those kids became able to go to school, and people could afford things like bicycles and radios, sometimes even a small black and white tv.

But there's a flipside to this, which I've experienced first hand. In 1954, a US backed coup overthrew a democratically elected government in Guatemala, one which was redistributing unused land to peasants (a sixth of the population, 500k people at the time), established a minimum wage etc. The goal was a liberal democracy. Wikipedia has a pretty good account of this. After the coup, a military dictatorship was installed and all the progressive policies were ended.

My ex-wife is Guatemalan, and her grandparents owned a cattle ranch and banana plantation between Guatemala city and the Atlantic coast. Someone, it was never clear who, burned their house to the ground some time in the 50's. They were "given an offer they couldn't refuse", enough money to buy a small house in Guatemala City and start a family restaurant. Had they refused, they would have been dead.

On a trip to the coast that we made, she wanted to show me the old homestead. Remnants of the burned out foundation were still there. A few hundred yards away, a dozen international corporate banana trucks were lined up on the roadside. United Fruit Co I think.

When I first crossed the border from Mexico into Guate in 1984, the bus was stopped about a dozen times in the first 20 km, and inspected by soldiers checking for guerillas, in the aftermath of the latest peak of peasant uprising in the late 70's/early 80's, when buildings in downtown Guate Cite were still being blown up by rebels a quarter century after the coup.

And this post is strictly fact; no opinion whatsoever.

quite a luxury to be able to spend our days thinking and talking (and whining and bickering) about a bunch of decent young men playing a game, no?

Zaga
08-03-2017, 12:13 PM
quite a luxury to be able to spend our days thinking and talking (and whining and bickering) about a bunch of decent young men playing a game, no?

It is a privilege to me. Many thanks to those that have served this country! Go Zag's - Can't wait to see the new team play..

seacatfan
08-03-2017, 01:42 PM
Could be that he has a good gauge of what he has and considering the bracket his team was in... that nothing positive could come from a bunch of losses?

That could be. Still, it's a one time only massive event. Lots of schools that didn't get invited probably would love to be there. Univ. of Portland and Portland St. are probably going to be cannon fodder in their respective brackets, but they are probably thrilled to be participating.

MickMick
08-04-2017, 08:15 PM
No worry's Abe and no apology required. We are on opposite sides of the political spectrum, but it is Zag basketball that keeps us coming here and being cordial with each other.

CDC84
08-04-2017, 08:54 PM
I still feel this has a chance to be the most overrated tournament in college basketball history. Maui and the Great Alaska Shootout (when it was great) had better fields than this one. There is a lot of deadwood and mediocre BCS teams. A team with Final 4 aspirations could play PSU, Oklahoma and Ohio State. That isn't exactly a killer set of games that the NCAA committee is going to love. What makes this event special is if you have an all access pass. If the best game is at Memorial, you can go there, and then check out the 2nd half of the game at Moda, etc. It's going to be a basketball lover's paradise.....just so long as you don't have too many games going on at the same time that are blow outs.