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Zagdawg
07-28-2017, 08:19 AM
Andorra inks rookie center Karnowski

"Morabanc Andorra La Vella added size to its frontcourt with the signing of center Przemek Karnowski on Friday. Karnowski (2.15 meters, 23 years old) will start his professional basketball career in Andorra. He arrives from Gonzaga University, where he averaged 12.2 points on 58.8% two-point shooting and 5.8 rebounds in 39 NCAA games last season, helping his team reach the NCAA Tournament championship game. Karnowski was named winner of the 2017 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Award as college basketball’s best center. He spent a total of five seasons with the Bulldogs; he fourth season was cut short by a back injury after five games and he was allowed to play a fifth season. Before joining Gonzaga, Karnowski played for MKS Katarzynka Torun, SMS PZKosz Wladyslawowo and Siarka Jezioro Tarnobrzeg of his native Poland. Karnowski has also been a member of the Polish national team at the junior and senior levels. He helped its U17 squad win a silver medal at the 2010 World Championships."

http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/eurocup/news/i/837lxjokt4k8xrbn

JPtheBeasta
07-28-2017, 08:35 AM
In America we call a 7-foot player a "footer." In the basketball world abroad, do the call them meterers?

I wish Special K a special kind of career. Maybe the pendulum will swing in the states some time soon and they will take interest in him down the road.

SWZag
07-28-2017, 08:40 AM
Excellent! Congrats Shem!

It's fitting and almost poetic for him to be in Andorra, it being a country built in the mountains.

zagbeliever
07-28-2017, 09:01 AM
Good luck to Shem!

MTZag03
07-28-2017, 09:17 AM
I have a feeling he will be very productive with a long career. He may never be a superstar, but he'll make his ������

MTZag03
07-28-2017, 09:18 AM
I have a feeling he will be very productive with a long career. He may never be a superstar, but he'll make his ������

Those were Euro emojis

sittingon50
07-28-2017, 09:34 AM
Best of luck, Shem.


Look forward to following your career away from GU!

3XaZag
07-28-2017, 09:39 AM
Quick question?

What occupies more space, Shem or the country he will be playing for?

Mojo13
07-28-2017, 09:53 AM
I think this is a great place to start Shem.
BC Andorra is a middling team in the Spanish ACB and looks to be playing the EuroCup this season.

The Spanish ACB is one of the strongest European domestic leagues with a number of strong Euroleague teams playing in it and the EuroCup is the feeder competition into the Euroleague. Being on a weaker team in solid leagues, Shem will get plenty of opportunity for minutes but also exposure to stronger clubs. If he performs well - he will get noticed. The European leagues are a pyramid - NCAA rookies rarely start at the top and usually don't succeed if they do - it usually takes a few seasons to learn to be a pro. But the upward mobility is there to bigger/better clubs and more money.

This is similar to how Kevin Pangos got his start. Big role on a average ACB/Eurocup team - was a big part of the team having great success, was noticed for it, and moved up to the Euroleague after one season.


It seems Shem is most likely penciled in as their starting center. And of interest they have no one else on their roster over 6'9.

sittingon50
07-28-2017, 10:25 AM
Thanks for the background, Mojo.

Zagdawg
07-28-2017, 10:34 AM
Agree-- thank you Mojo for the info.


http://m.gonzagabulletin.com/online/article_adfbb67c-73bc-11e7-bc53-031fad3fc220.html?mode=jqm

Mojo13
07-28-2017, 11:27 AM
Agree-- thank you Mojo for the info.


http://m.gonzagabulletin.com/online/article_adfbb67c-73bc-11e7-bc53-031fad3fc220.html?mode=jqm



No worries. I'll also point out that there are some fun rumors heating up over the last couple days about Kyle Wiltjer being associated with Baskonia in Spain as well (ACB/Euroleague). Supposedly they have given Kyle an offer.
Fun for a few reasons - Vitoria where Baskonia is based is a basketball-mad town and a great fan base to play in front of. Kyle's Dad - Greg was a legend in the ACB in the 80's and 90's. So the Wiltjer name still resonates and that alone will make Kyle a fan favorite.
This a Euroleague team so he would be playing at the highest levels outside the NBA and would be pretty good money to boot.

And this was Kim Tillie's ex-team as he left for Olympiacos, so Kyle would be replacing him.

Markburn1
07-28-2017, 11:34 AM
I think this is a great place to start Shem.
BC Andorra is a middling team in the Spanish ACB and looks to be playing the EuroCup this season.

The Spanish ACB is one of the strongest European domestic leagues with a number of strong Euroleague teams playing in it and the EuroCup is the feeder competition into the Euroleague. Being on a weaker team in solid leagues, Shem will get plenty of opportunity for minutes but also exposure to stronger clubs. If he performs well - he will get noticed. The European leagues are a pyramid - NCAA rookies rarely start at the top and usually don't succeed if they do - it usually takes a few seasons to learn to be a pro. But the upward mobility is there to bigger/better clubs and more money.

This is similar to how Kevin Pangos got his start. Big role on a average ACB/Eurocup team - was a big part of the team having great success, was noticed for it, and moved up to the Euroleague after one season.


It seems Shem is most likely penciled in as their starting center. And of interest they have no one else on their roster over 6'9.

Are the teams mobile too? In other words, like soccer where teams in second tier leagues get promoted and top tier teams get demoted based on performance?

Mojo13
07-28-2017, 11:50 AM
Are the teams mobile too? In other words, like soccer where teams in second tier leagues get promoted and top tier teams get demoted based on performance?

Yes and no.
With the domestic leagues for sure...you place in the bottom whatever (1?, 2? 3?) and your team can be regulated to the lower division. Depends on the league I suppose, but it is the usual practice. However there is great disparity in the domestic leagues - there are top clubs that will always be good because their budget might be 10x-20x higher than the lower teams. They will never be regulated unless there is some sort of disaster - and these lower level teams can't really compete with the top tier guys. But you'll see some of the middle class teams put together a great season from time to time. Think of the domestic leagues as the power structure in the WCC - would Gonzaga ever be at risk of being "relegated" (if it could happen)? Neither is Real Madrid, Barca or Baskonia from the ACB.

The Euroleague is a privately owned and mostly closed international "super league" - about a dozen teams have been given permanent licences (these are the power house clubs in Europe - CSKA, Barca, Real Madrid, Olympiacos, Panathinaikos, Fenerbache etc.). A few clubs are not permanent and can change out each year (winner of the Adriatic league and German league cycle in and out, but it is usually the same teams - for example Brose Baskets has won the BBL 7 of the last 8 seasons)- they also allow the winner of the EuroCup (the 2nd tier competition which the Euroleague owns as well) to move up to the Euroleague. Even in the Euroleague the budget differences between the top clubs and the lower clubs can be staggering.

Markburn1
07-28-2017, 12:16 PM
Yes and no.
With the domestic leagues for sure...you place in the bottom whatever (1?, 2? 3?) and your team can be regulated to the lower division. Depends on the league I suppose, but it is the usual practice. However there is great disparity in the domestic leagues - there are top clubs that will always be good because their budget might be 10x-20x higher than the lower teams. They will never be regulated unless there is some sort of disaster - and these lower level teams can't really compete with the top tier guys. But you'll see some of the middle class teams put together a great season from time to time. Think of the domestic leagues as the power structure in the WCC - would Gonzaga ever be at risk of being "relegated" (if it could happen)? Neither is Real Madrid, Barca or Baskonia from the ACB.

The Euroleague is a privately owned and mostly closed international "super league" - about a dozen teams have been given permanent licences (these are the power house clubs in Europe - CSKA, Barca, Real Madrid, Olympiacos, Panathinaikos, Fenerbache etc.). A few clubs are not permanent and can change out each year (winner of the Adriatic league and German league cycle in and out, but it is usually the same teams - for example Brose Baskets has won the BBL 7 of the last 8 seasons)- they also allow the winner of the EuroCup (the 2nd tier competition which the Euroleague owns as well) to move up to the Euroleague. Even in the Euroleague the budget differences between the top clubs and the lower clubs can be staggering.

Are contracts in Europe usually one year deals? Assuming top players have multi year deals do they have opt out provisions should NBA teams be interested? Or do NBA teams compensate Euro clubs and buy out contracts?

Apologies for moving off Shem, but I'm really not if you think about Shem's long term prospects.

Reborn
07-28-2017, 01:33 PM
Congrats SHEM. BEST O LUCK IN EUROPE. THANKS FOR ALL YOU GAVE US FANS. YOU ARE IN THE HALL OF FAME IN MY OPINION.

Mojo13
07-28-2017, 01:35 PM
Are contracts in Europe usually one year deals? Assuming top players have multi year deals do they have opt out provisions should NBA teams be interested? Or do NBA teams compensate Euro clubs and buy out contracts?

Apologies for moving off Shem, but I'm really not if you think about Shem's long term prospects.


All of the above. It is all negotiated dependent on a particular player's situation.
Deals are usually shorter than the NBA - usually 1 year with options. It seems only only the top players are getting multi-year guaranteed deals.

Younger less proven (or lower level) players typically have non-guaranteed or partiality guaranteed deals.

Some negotiate NBA "out clauses", I think a true "out clause" is just that there no buyout if the NBA comes calling (I think this is rare to get). Most just have meaningful buyouts if a player wants to get out after the 1st year.

Typical of Shem's level - he probably has a 1+1 deal. He is in a good enough league to have 1 year guaranteed (or partially guarantee) with a 2nd year at a team option or maybe at his option (or mutual). My guess is if he excel's this year there will be nothing stopping him from moving to a better team next year. It is probably in his best interest not to get locked down with Andorra as I think he can easily move up and he probably gets to the Euroleague in a couple years.

As players get older and mature they are negotiating more for stability and guarantees and might chase multiyear deals harder.

Pangos signed a 1+1 last year and if an NBA team came calling this summer there was probably a few hundred thousand dollar buy-out to get him away from Zalgiris. Not enough to stop an NBA team if they wanted him.

The top Euroleague guys might have a near $1M buyout. Or EL teams will have heavy buy-outs on their top young prospects that they invested heavily in - like Dario Saric last year. Sort of payback for investing in them.

NontradZag
07-28-2017, 01:42 PM
Thanks Mojo, I appreciate the context and information that you have provided in this thread. Super informative.

Markburn1
07-28-2017, 02:04 PM
All of the above. It is all negotiated dependent on a particular player's situation.
Deals are usually shorter than the NBA - usually 1 year with options. It seems only only the top players are getting multi-year guaranteed deals.

Younger less proven (or lower level) players typically have non-guaranteed or partiality guaranteed deals.

Some negotiate NBA "out clauses", I think a true "out clause" is just that there no buyout if the NBA comes calling (I think this is rare to get). Most just have meaningful buyouts if a player wants to get out after the 1st year.

Typical of Shem's level - he probably has a 1+1 deal. He is in a good enough league to have 1 year guaranteed (or partially guarantee) with a 2nd year at a team option or maybe at his option (or mutual). My guess is if he excel's this year there will be nothing stopping him from moving to a better team next year. It is probably in his best interest not to get locked down with Andorra as I think he can easily move up and he probably gets to the Euroleague in a couple years.

As players get older and mature they are negotiating more for stability and guarantees and might chase multiyear deals harder.

Pangos signed a 1+1 last year and if an NBA team came calling this summer there was probably a few hundred thousand dollar buy-out to get him away from Zalgiris. Not enough to stop an NBA team if they wanted him.

The top Euroleague guys might have a near $1M buyout. Or EL teams will have heavy buy-outs on their top young prospects that they invested heavily in - like Dario Saric last year. Sort of payback for investing in them.

One last set of questions. Hope you don't mind.

When NBA teams do what they call a draft and stash with a Euro talent, do they have special relationships with certain clubs? Do they help pay for that draftee's salary or give the Euro club financial considerations for taking care of their kids?

Mojo13
07-28-2017, 03:21 PM
One last set of questions. Hope you don't mind.

When NBA teams do what they call a draft and stash with a Euro talent, do they have special relationships with certain clubs? Do they help pay for that draftee's salary or give the Euro club financial considerations for taking care of their kids?

Not that I know of. Or I don't know of any pattern. I suppose behind the scenes different NBA scouts and management have differing relationships with clubs in Europe. If you burn a high draft pick on a kid in Europe who is not coming over of a couple years you have a vested interest in their development and would keep a close eye on them and try to influence the European club somehow or control somewhat where that player plays. But there is not as many draft and stashes as you might think. Most are 2nd rounders who have a tough road making the NBA regardless.

The CBA prevents NBA clubs from getting too involved financially - they are capped with how much they can pay on any given buy out (like a 650K or something).
Here is a good article on Draft and Stashes and what goes on behind the scenes.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/27/draft-and-stash-picks-have-uncertain-path-nba/VslfhaThaZ2khOt5dG2PHN/story.html


Guys migrate from the European leagues (almost always Euroleague) teams to the NBA every year, but maybe only 5-15 guys in a given year.
Some of the bigger names this year include:
Bogdan Bogdanovic - Fenerbache to Kings
Ekpe Udoh - Fenerbache to Jazz
Milos Teodosic - CSKA to Clippers (likely the best player in the world outside the NBA for the past few years)
Brandon Paul - Anadolu Efes to Spurs
Khem Birch - Olympiacos to Magic
Shane Larkin - Baskonia to Celtics
Daniel Theis - Brose Bamberg to Celtics
Ante Zizic - Darussafaka to Celtics
Cedi Osman - Anadolu Efes Istanbul to Cavaliers
Darius Miller - Brose Bamberg to Pelicans
Mike James - Panathinaikos to Suns

Lots of NCAA kids coming home. Maybe we see Pangos, Wiltjer or Karnowski's names on that list someday...

Markburn1
07-28-2017, 03:57 PM
Thanks. Very enjoyable session.

Brandon Paul. GRRRR

MontanaCoyote
07-28-2017, 07:57 PM
Congrats SHEM. BEST O LUCK IN EUROPE. THANKS FOR ALL YOU GAVE US FANS. YOU ARE IN THE HALL OF FAME IN MY OPINION.

There will never be anyone like him again. I posted time and again during last season that no other player in D-1 was as valuable to his team in so many different ways than Shem. I still can't picture him not being here, seems like he was forever. He'll live forever in my Hall of Fame, that's for sure. I know this will sound over the top, but he really did give me something to live for and to really care about. Here's hoping that this exceptional human being enjoys a fine basketball career and then excels in whatever post career pursuit or pursuits he chooses. God bless The Mountain!

bartruff1
07-28-2017, 08:10 PM
Except for the money...and that is a big except....if it was me, I would rather not play in the NBA....so full of drama queens and egos and crappy cities....a endless string of play eat sleep watch tv play eat sleep....

Andorra is a beautiful part of a beautiful country...a wonderful experience for a great guy....

GrizZAG
07-28-2017, 08:25 PM
We were so blessed to have Shem with us. Likable, lovable, kind and a warrior in adversity. He is legend IMO for Gonzaga.

MontanaCoyote
07-29-2017, 09:25 AM
Except for the money...and that is a big except....if it was me, I would rather not play in the NBA....so full of drama queens and egos and crappy cities....a endless string of play eat sleep watch tv play eat sleep....

Andorra is a beautiful part of a beautiful country...a wonderful experience for a great guy....

Had to find Andorra on the map. Then, the pictures! Holy Cow, it's just a beautiful, idyllic looking little place. Heck, Shem will have a hard time just fitting into it! Not too far from Torun, either. Shem loves Poland and Mom and Dad will be a lot closer to him now. Andorrans will love Shem, too. Hey, who couldn't?

SWZag
07-31-2017, 10:28 AM
Missed the opportunity to ask prior to the other thread being locked.

Does anyone know Shem's contract salary? I'm curious to know if, monetarily, it was a good choice to play in the US verses go straight to play in Europe.

* If anyone hasn't been to Andorra and you have the opportunity I would highly recommend it. It's a great place and extremely unique. Shem will definitely stand out and as broadcasters used to say, "he's a mountain of a man." Well, he's now in the mountains.

Mojo13
07-31-2017, 12:27 PM
Missed the opportunity to ask prior to the other thread being locked.

Does anyone know Shem's contract salary? I'm curious to know if, monetarily, it was a good choice to play in the US verses go straight to play in Europe.

* If anyone hasn't been to Andorra and you have the opportunity I would highly recommend it. It's a great place and extremely unique. Shem will definitely stand out and as broadcasters used to say, "he's a mountain of a man." Well, he's now in the mountains.


I'll look to see if I can find something.

But for a SWAG he will get more than the G-League and less than the NBA minimum.
I'd say about 100-150K Euros net after tax with this club as a rookie. Probably has food, accommodation and car covered too.

A good start - but only a start I bet. Shem seems much better suited to European ball than the modern NBA. I think he will thrive.


As comparison I think Pangos is being paid about $250K Euros net after tax, in the 2nd year of his contract with Zalgiris. A bigger budgeted and better team playing in the Euroleague. He is still young and is not necessarily trying to maximize the money (like Shem) but getting on a team with the best opportunity and best chance for development and upward mobility. I think KP might be about to double that annual amount in his next contract as he has proven himself a starter-level, or major rotational player in the Euroleague.

Bogozags
07-31-2017, 02:15 PM
Missed the opportunity to ask prior to the other thread being locked.

Does anyone know Shem's contract salary? I'm curious to know if, monetarily, it was a good choice to play in the US verses go straight to play in Europe.

* If anyone hasn't been to Andorra and you have the opportunity I would highly recommend it. It's a great place and extremely unique. Shem will definitely stand out and as broadcasters used to say, "he's a mountain of a man." Well, he's now in the mountains.

Am I reading your post correctly...Shem is now going to be playing in the G-League instead of Europe?

I went back and read every post in the closed thread and there was no mention of it.

Thanks...

SWZag
07-31-2017, 02:19 PM
Am I reading your post correctly...Shem is now going to be playing in the G-League instead of Europe?

I went back and read every post in the closed thread and there was no mention of it.

Thanks...

I meant to say "to play in the US at GU verses go straight to play pro in Europe." Hope this clarifies my question.

SWZag
07-31-2017, 02:21 PM
I'll look to see if I can find something.

But for a SWAG he will get more than the G-League and less than the NBA minimum.
I'd say about 100-150K Euros net after tax with this club as a rookie. Probably has food, accommodation and car covered too.

A good start - but only a start I bet. Shem seems much better suited to European ball than the modern NBA. I think he will thrive.


As comparison I think Pangos is being paid about $250K Euros net after tax, in the 2nd year of his contract with Zalgiris. A bigger budgeted and better team playing in the Euroleague. He is still young and is not necessarily trying to maximize the money (like Shem) but getting on a team with the best opportunity and best chance for development and upward mobility. I think KP might be about to double that annual amount in his next contract as he has proven himself a starter-level, or major rotational player in the Euroleague.

Thanks! Appreciate your response. This is something Euro players deal with, deciding whether to make money young or going to a US college and then making money. I just wondered if in Shem's case he's better off financially by coming to the US.

Bogozags
07-31-2017, 02:30 PM
I meant to say "to play in the US at GU verses go straight to play pro in Europe." Hope this clarifies my question.

THANKS! Yes it does :o

Zagger
08-01-2017, 05:01 AM
Congrats Mt K!
Your new fans are going to love your play & personality! Lots of luck!

MontanaCoyote
08-01-2017, 11:51 AM
I'll look to see if I can find something.

But for a SWAG he will get more than the G-League and less than the NBA minimum.
I'd say about 100-150K Euros net after tax with this club as a rookie. Probably has food, accommodation and car covered too.

A good start - but only a start I bet. Shem seems much better suited to European ball than the modern NBA. I think he will thrive.


As comparison I think Pangos is being paid about $250K Euros net after tax, in the 2nd year of his contract with Zalgiris. A bigger budgeted and better team playing in the Euroleague. He is still young and is not necessarily trying to maximize the money (like Shem) but getting on a team with the best opportunity and best chance for development and upward mobility. I think KP might be about to double that annual amount in his next contract as he has proven himself a starter-level, or major rotational player in the Euroleague.

Relatively speaking, PDG, especially for starters. Caveat; There are 3 kinds of people, those who understand math and those who don't. At least tried to get it right.

The average yearly salary in Shem's Poland is $15,404 U.S. A top IT manager makes around $60,000. If Shem's contract is for, say, $125,000, especially with accommodations, car and food covered, he should be able to send some money home.
Plus, Andolla is a beautiful place to be for a while, Shem will take Spain by storm, learn his 3rd and maybe even 4th language and set himself up for a long and prosperous pro career. I like where The Mountain is right now. Just need to learn how to navigate the foreign websites so I can keep up with him.

Mojo13
08-01-2017, 12:29 PM
Relatively speaking, PDG, especially for starters. Caveat; There are 3 kinds of people, those who understand math and those who don't. At least tried to get it right.

The average yearly salary in Shem's Poland is $15,404 U.S. A top IT manager makes around $60,000. If Shem's contract is for, say, $125,000, especially with accommodations, car and food covered, he should be able to send some money home.
Plus, Andolla is a beautiful place to be for a while, Shem will take Spain by storm, learn his 3rd and maybe even 4th language and set himself up for a long and prosperous pro career. I like where The Mountain is right now. Just need to learn how to navigate the foreign websites so I can keep up with him.



Keep in mind I said Euros (not U.S. dollars) and after tax. European salaries are quoted as net after tax as you are dealing with so many tax domiciles across these varying countries.

$125 euros net after tax might be closer to $280K-$300K US dollars pre tax.


This is probably the best website to follow him.
http://basketball.eurobasket.com/team/Spain/MoraBanc-Andorra/139
You will be able to track his ACB (Spanish league) games and his EuroCup (international second division league games) in the same place.

RealGM does a decent job as well.

MontanaCoyote
08-01-2017, 01:33 PM
[QUOTE=Mojo13;1326993]Keep in mind I said Euros (not U.S. dollars) and after tax. European salaries are quoted as net after tax as you are dealing with so many tax domiciles across these varying countries.

$125 euros net after tax might be closer to $280K-$300K US dollars pre tax.


This is probably the best website to follow him.
http://basketball.eurobasket.com/team/Spain/MoraBanc-Andorra/139
You will be able to track his ACB (Spanish league) games and his EuroCup (international second division league games) in the same place.

RealGM does a decent job as well.[/QUOTE

Thanks! I knew you used Euro's but when I checked the exchange rate with US and then started fooling around with Polish currency, it's exchange rate US/ Euro's and net v gross I got so confused I just called it good. Thanks for your numbers (I like them ever better) and the website. Now if I can find a link to buy a Andorra team cap or something I'll be all set.

MontanaCoyote
08-02-2017, 07:57 AM
Are the teams mobile too? In other words, like soccer where teams in second tier leagues get promoted and top tier teams get demoted based on performance?

Shem's pictured on the team's website (sans beard) as the starting center. Two forwards that could give Shem a little competition on the facial hair front. A real hairy front court, that's for sure!

kitzbuel
08-03-2017, 03:11 AM
Keep in mind I said Euros (not U.S. dollars) and after tax. European salaries are quoted as net after tax as you are dealing with so many tax domiciles across these varying countries.

$125 euros net after tax might be closer to $280K-$300K US dollars pre tax.


This is probably the best website to follow him.
http://basketball.eurobasket.com/team/Spain/MoraBanc-Andorra/139
You will be able to track his ACB (Spanish league) games and his EuroCup (international second division league games) in the same place.

RealGM does a decent job as well.Interesting. Four Slavs and a Frenchman start for them. I wonder what kind of national player requirement they have for their roster. I only saw one Spaniard. Of course Andorra is its own independent country, but no Andorrans on their roster either.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Mojo13
08-03-2017, 08:20 AM
Interesting. Four Slavs and a Frenchman start for them. I wonder what kind of national player requirement they have for their roster. I only saw one Spaniard. Of course Andorra is its own independent country, but no Andorrans on their roster either.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Here are the rules on imports for the Spanish ACB from the 14/15 season.

Roster with 12 players: 5 Spanish passports min., 5 EU passports max., 2 non-EU imports max.


Obviously Shem has a EU passport and the non-EU imports will be usually American (or South Americans or Canadians/Aussies) ,

I may go look for the current rules but you get the idea. And most domestic leagues has some variation of this. X number of locals, X number of EU passports, X number of true foreigners. A league like Turkey might allow 4 or more "Americans" (at least four I think) and why they seem to be the stronger Euroleague teams right now.


Note that Pangos is playing on a Slovenian passport he obtained through some lineage. It makes it easier to make a higher quality team and more money having an EU passport. There are too many great American players chasing too few non-EU imports slots (classic supply and demand imbalance). It is also why the non-EU import passport players are usually the best players on the team and will quickly get bounced out if they are not performing. Guys like David Stockton and Steven Gray have been dropped from teams unceremoniously the last couple years even though they look to be playing ok (confusing many people on this board). You have to be great as an American import to stick with a team, but usually if you are great a better team quickly comes calling with more money. Thus guys, especially US guys, bounce around allot. This is also why so many American players end up playing for odd European national teams - they want the EU passport and playing for the NT is the payment for the passport. Also why Pangos dug deep in his history to qualify for a Slovenia passport. I am not sure Pangos would have made the Euroleague team, Zalgiris, without his EU passport.


Other leagues can get quite interesting in their import rules. For example the J-League in Japan (Rob Sacre, Ira Brown and others) has quotas not only on the foreign players allowed on a roster, but the amount of minutes they are allowed to play a game, what quarters they are allowed to play and how many foreigners can be on the floor together at the same time. So it can be weird looking at stats and see a guy like Sacre average 25-30 points a game but only playing low 20s minutes a game (hypothetical example - I am not sure that is accurate, but I've seen weird stuff like that with other players). It can also make for some interesting coaching decisions with match-ups.

MontanaCoyote
08-03-2017, 09:42 AM
[QUOTE=Mojo13;1327160]Here are the rules on imports for the Spanish ACB from the 14/15 season.

Roster with 12 players: 5 Spanish passports min., 5 EU passports max., 2 non-EU imports max.


Obviously Shem has a EU passport and the non-EU imports will be usually American (or South Americans or Canadians/Aussies) ,

I may go look for the current rules but you get the idea. And most domestic leagues has some variation of this. X number of locals, X number of EU passports, X number of true foreigners. A league like Turkey might allow 4 or more "Americans" (at least four I think) and why they seem to be the stronger Euroleague teams right now.


Note that Pangos is playing on a Slovenian passport he obtained through some lineage. It makes it easier to make a higher quality team and more money having an EU passport. There are too many great American players chasing too few non-EU imports slots (classic supply and demand imbalance). It is also why the non-EU import passport players are usually the best players on the team and will quickly get bounced out if they are not performing. Guys like David Stockton and Steven Gray have been dropped from teams unceremoniously the last couple years even though they look to be playing ok (confusing many people on this board). You have to be great as an American import to stick with a team, but usually if you are great a better team quickly comes calling with more money. Thus guys, especially US guys, bounce around allot. This is also why so many American players end up playing for odd European national teams - they want the EU passport and playing for the NT is the payment for the passport. Also why Pangos dug deep in his history to qualify for a Slovenia passport. I am not sure Pangos would have made the Euroleague team, Zalgiris, without his EU passport.


Other leagues can get quite interesting in their import rules. For example the J-League in Japan (Rob Sacre, Ira Brown and others) has quotas not only on the foreign players allowed on a roster, but the amount of minutes they are allowed to play a game, what quarters they are allowed to play and how many foreigners can be on the floor together at the same time. So it can be weird looking at stats and see a guy like Sacre average 25-30 points a game but only playing low 20s minutes a game (hypothetical example - I am not sure that is accurate, but I've seen weird stuff like that with other players). It can also make for some interesting coaching decisions with match-ups.[/QUOTE

Thanks, Mojo! You're really helping me get up to speed on all this. By the time league play starts I should be able to follow Shem all I want, which is a lot. Sounds like he's situated well for what might develop on down the road.

I could well be wrong, but right now I think Shem will be happier playing in Europe than in the NBA. Maybe except for the money it's a better place to be? And the money should get better.

I'm already thinking of Shem's possible careers after B Ball. He's got so much going for him I think he'll find plenty of interesting and profitable possibilities. Just love The Mountain!

kitzbuel
08-03-2017, 03:44 PM
Thanks, I was looking for something like that and did not find it.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

TravelinZag
08-04-2017, 07:09 AM
Will forever remember, miss and wish the best for this great player and better man.

Confident that choices Shem carefully makes will be those that combine the best for him with those that will make him happiest.

Hope we'll see him for periodic visits once he settles in to the next stage of his life. Certain he will be an acute observer and enthusiastic supporter for future Zag possible recruits. The Euro network expands.

thebigsmoove
08-04-2017, 07:44 AM
Milos Teodosic - CSKA to Clippers (likely the best player in the world outside the NBA for the past few years)


This signing by the clippers after losing Chris Paul was one of the better moves i saw this offseason. He will immediately be one of the top 2-3 playmakers in the NBA and will have no trouble translating to the NBA with the trend being great shooting. Sneaky good move that i really loved. Still holding out hope Steve Ballmer is using this new arena deal in inglewood as a cover to eventually move the clippers to Seattle.

Also Mojo...you are one of the most knowledgeable posters in this forum. It was a true pleasure to read through all that info on euroleague.

MontanaCoyote
08-04-2017, 02:17 PM
This signing by the clippers after losing Chris Paul was one of the better moves i saw this offseason. He will immediately be one of the top 2-3 playmakers in the NBA and will have no trouble translating to the NBA with the trend being great shooting. Sneaky good move that i really loved. Still holding out hope Steve Ballmer is using this new arena deal in inglewood as a cover to eventually move the clippers to Seattle.

Also Mojo...you are one of the most knowledgeable posters in this forum. It was a true pleasure to read through all that info on euroleague.

Second That!

Mojo13
08-25-2017, 10:14 AM
Here is a good long, insightful interview with Shem in a Polish website. It is is little choppy with the translation, but you'll understand most of it.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://polskikosz.pl/przemyslaw-karnowski-chce-pojsc-droga-marca-gasola/&prev=search

He talks GU, Summer League, national team, NBA, why he signed in Spain...what happens next...


Probably want to move this to Old Dogs too.

Y'all will like this quote:

Q: Let's go back to the NCAA, but let's leave aside the studios that were a big argument for you. From a purely basketball point of view - as if you were going back five years, would you be gone again, or have you chosen the European way?

A: "After what I saw and experienced in Gonzaga, I would have chosen the same. Basketball, this university, is the only electrifying sport within a radius of 300 km, the atmosphere is fantastic, the organization too. It's the details that on the field do not help you, but they are awesome - this is the NBA level. I'm glad I had the opportunity to be part of this program.


Also note he is playing in Eurobasket for Poland without Gortat or Lampe so he should be the main man in the middle.

If anyone wants to google around to see how he is doing - note they spell his name "Przemysław Karnowski".

ZagNative
08-25-2017, 01:01 PM
Thanks, Mojo! I always appreciate your contributions here.

MontanaCoyote
08-25-2017, 02:00 PM
Thanks, Mojo! I always appreciate your contributions here.

Here too, as well! I've been poking around finding out what I can on Twitter and Facebook even though I don't subscribe to either. Some nice pics, comments, short videos pop up. With Mojo's help, I'm getting through my rehab on Shemmick
Withdrawal Syndrome (SWS), otherwise known as Missin' The Mountain. Will follow both the Zag's and Andorra now!

MontanaCoyote
08-25-2017, 02:44 PM
Just read the interview. Shem is certainly honest with and about himself. It will be interesting to see how he develops. He's got plans, that's for sure! Not sitting still.

ZagNative
08-30-2017, 04:32 PM
Shem plays vs. Slovenia in his first FIBA Group Phase game tomorrow. See the thread in Old Dogs here. (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?60984-Przemek-Karnowski-with-2017-Polish-Senior-Men-s-National-Team&p=1329002#post1329002)

For future reference:

Link to ACB.com, (http://www.acb.com/http://) the site for the main Spanish league, Liga Endressa: First game on the schedule - Real Madrid on October 1

Link to Eurocup (http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/eurocup): First game of the season vs UNICS Kazan on October 11.

Link to the Andorra basketball club home page (http://www.bca.ad/)

MontanaCoyote
08-30-2017, 06:59 PM
Shem plays vs. Slovenia in his first FIBA Group Phase game tomorrow. See the thread in Old Dogs here. (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?60984-Przemek-Karnowski-with-2017-Polish-Senior-Men-s-National-Team&p=1329002#post1329002)

For future reference:

Link to ACB.com, (http://www.acb.com/http://) the site for the main Spanish league, Liga Endressa: First game on the schedule - Real Madrid on October 1

Link to Eurocup (http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/eurocup): First game of the season vs UNICS Kazan on October 11.

Link to the Andorra basketball club home page (http://www.bca.ad/)

Thanks, Native! Like Mojo, helping flatten my learning curve on Euroball big time. Really appreciate it!