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View Full Version : Scheduling and the new road win rule



Norwester
07-20-2017, 01:07 PM
Things look bad for the Syracuse and St. Mary's scheduling philosophy:

http://thecomeback.com/ncaa/basketball-committee-emphasizes-quality-road-wins-which-programs-suffer.html

tinfoilzag
07-20-2017, 02:22 PM
Thanks for sharing the article. I wonder if schools make more when hosting early season tournament events as opposed to attending a destination tournament?

IMO this will hurt mid-majors the most. In the past, teams were willing to host mid-majors in-state (practically a home game) without the risk of having a home loss by using the old weighting system. I don't think it will be worth it for major conferences to play those teams outside of conference anymore.

If you are in the ACC, does that OOC win really help you get in the dance? Nope, it may help with seeding but .500 in conference is what matters. Does the home loss hurt enough to keep you out? Maybe, losing to a team from a one-bid league at home is a bad loss (GU excluded). The standard will be cupcakes only in OOC play. Preseason tourneys become less attractive to big schools. This will reinforce the mantra "mid-majors may be OK but they don't play anybody". .500 big schools will get the nod over 7-9 loss teams with weak SoS.

I think GU is on the good side of the mid-major hill and won't be impacted too much by this but other teams, including St. Mary's, won't be able to get a big 5 game to prove how good they are.

bartruff1
07-20-2017, 03:54 PM
Don't the Gaels play as many true road games as Gonzaga ???

soccerdud
07-20-2017, 04:09 PM
Don't the Gaels play as many true road games as Gonzaga ???

last year, yep... but there's a difference between getting to the point that you no longer need to play those games and refusing to travel to begin with. i look forward to seeing both teams hit the road more, and i enjoy the fact that few is almost certainly more comfortable with that idea than is bennett.

thebigsmoove
07-21-2017, 04:31 AM
last year, yep... but there's a difference between getting to the point that you no longer need to play those games and refusing to travel to begin with. i look forward to seeing both teams hit the road more, and i enjoy the fact that few is almost certainly more comfortable with that idea than is bennett.

I will reiterate, i think this new rule has got to change Gonzaga's mentality to scheduling. Our OOC schedule is even more important now than ever, and we need to make sure we have at least a couple quality road games every year.

TexasZagFan
07-21-2017, 07:24 AM
I will reiterate, i think this new rule has got to change Gonzaga's mentality to scheduling. Our OOC schedule is even more important now than ever, and we need to make sure we have at least a couple quality road games every year.

Not according to the author of this article, he said the Zags don't see to change a thing. I'm in lined to agree.

ETA: for the benefit of readers East of the Mississippi, the Zags don't need to change a thing. I'm inclined to agree.

My thumbs have been duly chastised.

thebigsmoove
07-21-2017, 07:42 AM
Not according to the author of this article, he said the Zags don't see to change a thing. I'm in lined to agree.

First off...my goodness do you check what you write before you post?

secondly, I categorically disagree with the author of the article. We dont really play true road games against top 75 talent anymore...Almost all of our travel is neutral site games...and if you actually dig deeper into our neutral numbers, you will see of the 27 games, 12 were WCC tourney games and 3 were Battle in Seattle games...those are not true travel games...So really only 12 Quality Neutral travel games over the last 4 years. I really think we are going to need to increase the amount of quality road opponents on the schedule or suffer through diminished seeding.

willandi
07-21-2017, 07:48 AM
First off...my goodness do you check what you write before you post?

secondly, I categorically disagree with the author of the article. We dont really play true road games against top 75 talent anymore...Almost all of our travel is neutral site games...and if you actually dig deeper into our neutral numbers, you will see of the 27 games, 12 were WCC tourney games and 3 were Battle in Seattle games...those are not true travel games...So really only 12 Quality Neutral travel games over the last 4 years. I really think we are going to need to increase the amount of quality road opponents on the schedule or suffer through diminished seeding.

So if the Zags are top 10, have a regular season record of 30-2, they will drop in the seedings? I hope that the same applies to ALL the schools, especially in the power conferences.

I would much rather see the change that a team would have to be .500 in regular season conference play to be eligible for an at large bid to the tournament. It still wouldn't deal with the fact that many of the power conferences are so bloated that they no longer do home and home with all the conference teams. That is another thing I would like to see, but I know it will not happen.

thebigsmoove
07-21-2017, 07:55 AM
So if the Zags are top 10, have a regular season record of 30-2, they will drop in the seedings? I hope that the same applies to ALL the schools, especially in the power conferences.

I would much rather see the change that a team would have to be .500 in regular season conference play to be eligible for an at large bid to the tournament. It still wouldn't deal with the fact that many of the power conferences are so bloated that they no longer do home and home with all the conference teams. That is another thing I would like to see, but I know it will not happen.

Yes i believe all schools are going to have to tinker with their scheduling formulas. And i agree with that idea. I think its silly so many power conference schools get the benefit of a doubt during selection sunday. Id really like to see schools like Saint Marys and Murray St, etc, get a chance to show their stuff in the tourney. Who wants to watch Clemson or DePaul (random examples) go sub .500 in conference and then play like trash the first weekend.

TexasZagFan
07-21-2017, 08:17 AM
First off...my goodness do you check what you write before you post?

secondly, I categorically disagree with the author of the article. We dont really play true road games against top 75 talent anymore...Almost all of our travel is neutral site games...and if you actually dig deeper into our neutral numbers, you will see of the 27 games, 12 were WCC tourney games and 3 were Battle in Seattle games...those are not true travel games...So really only 12 Quality Neutral travel games over the last 4 years. I really think we are going to need to increase the amount of quality road opponents on the schedule or suffer through diminished seeding.

Nah, I just like being a burr under your saddle. Lol

Comes from my beloved stepfather, who enjoyed bantering with those who think of themselves as "experts" on a given topic.

thebigsmoove
07-21-2017, 08:24 AM
Nah, I just like being a burr under your saddle. Lol

Comes from my beloved stepfather, who enjoyed bantering with those who think of themselves as "experts" on a given topic.

Yes...we all think we are experts...so make sure to make your posts almost unreadable for the sake of upsetting us...sheesh...

sittingon50
07-21-2017, 09:28 AM
It's Friday. O.K. to lighten up just a touch.

gonzagafan62
07-21-2017, 10:09 AM
Don't the Gaels play as many true road games as Gonzaga ???

Please Bart stop trying to defend SMC. It's not working LOL! I can't remember them winning more than one true road game per year. Pretty sure we won a ton of neutral games too. Stop the jabbing haha.

bartruff1
07-21-2017, 12:48 PM
Please Bart stop trying to defend SMC. It's not working LOL! I can't remember them winning more than one true road game per year. Pretty sure we won a ton of neutral games too. Stop the jabbing haha.

I am happy to defend them....Randy does more with less than probably anyone in the country....I could care less what their schedule is... but the truth is they played as many true road games as Gonzaga last year...and perhaps in other years as well...see post #7 above.

I was proud of their performance in the Tourney.....love to watch them play...

soccerdud
07-21-2017, 02:25 PM
my point was simply this:

there are two main reasons to play a harder schedule (including road games): increase your chance of an at-large bid and raise the profile of your school.

gonzaga did that, got over that particular mountain, and then dialed back a bit and changed their scheduling philosophy to be much more neutral-site heavy. few has, in the past, demonstrated the willingness to play multiple tough road games per season, but the team has not needed that sort of scheduling for several years.

smc HAS needed that sort of scheduling lately, as shown by their recent NCAA tournament snubs (3 of the last 6 seasons iirc). yet, rb still was either unwilling or unable to meaningfully improve their schedule... tho he does get some props for the game @dayton.

yes, over the last few seasons we were in a similar place in terms of number of true road games... but we didn't need to schedule differently and we have a coach who has shown willingness to do so when necessary. smc is in the opposite position. we'll see what happens.

i love watching them play too, and i resent the fact that they aren't in the tournament every year. they have certainly been good enough to be. as great a coach as randy is, in my opinion those snubs are half on him and half on the biases of the committee. it seems to me that the committee was pretty clear about what they were looking for before, but they are making an explicit effort here to both communicate clearly and incentivize more reasonable scheduling. we'll see if that's finally enough to get randy to make a change.

ETA: it's also worth noting that while we didn't play true road games last year, we did play 3 top-20 kenpom teams in our non-conference schedule. smc played 1 top-40 team (dayton, #39). while the original topic was purely home/away/neutral, it's not like the difficulty of our respective schedules were otherwise comparable.