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2002Pilot
07-02-2017, 10:28 AM
On the UP board there is an ongoing debate as to whether UP-GU can still be considered a rivalry given the disparity in program performance over the last 20 years. Do Gonzaga fans still consider Portland to be a rival? If not, who is the current rival?

http://www.pilotnation.net/t5883-need-help-writing-a-pilot-history-piece

soccerdud
07-02-2017, 10:32 AM
On the UP board there is an ongoing debate as to whether UP-GU can still be considered a rivalry given the disparity in program performance over the last 20 years. Do Gonzaga fans still consider Portland to be a rival? If not, who is the current rival?

http://www.pilotnation.net/t5883-need-help-writing-a-pilot-history-piece

so, im an '05 grad. i respect portland and reveno was probably my favorite non-gu coach in the wcc (grier excepted, as a former gu coach). i do not consider you guys a rival. my rivals list: arizona, smc, byu.

maynard g krebs
07-02-2017, 10:33 AM
St Mary's. Then BYU.

bartruff1
07-02-2017, 10:33 AM
no

thespywhozaggedme
07-02-2017, 11:20 AM
No

Coach Crazy
07-02-2017, 11:45 AM
No


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gonzagafan62
07-02-2017, 11:50 AM
We won how many before 2014 and a decent Portland team finally beat us? And then later on that same year I fell ill and went to bed on a zags game with a 15 point lead because I was so sick.... and woke up to a 5 or 6 point win I believe. Tough tough games. I later went back (when the GU games were still all available on YouTube and saw what had happened.

But no no rivalry sorry. When a series has been dominated by one side it's no rivalry. It's like Oklahoma and Oklahoma State in football. Oklahoma State is no rival to Oklahoma .... it's all about Texas.

Today, I don't even consider SMC much of a rival. In our greatest years they weren't really much of a threat. Only BYU was. BYU knows how to beat Gonzaga regularly.

Now that is a rivalry

seacatfan
07-02-2017, 11:53 AM
And yet BYU can't sniff a top 2 finish in the WCC. BYU may know how to beat GU, but they haven't figured out how to consistently beat everybody else in the league. St. Mary's is GU's only real competition to win the conference each year.

cggonzaga
07-02-2017, 11:53 AM
I consider Portland a regional rival much in the way I do UW, WSU and EWU. Our nemesis would be SMU, BYU and Arizona to an extent.

Zags11
07-02-2017, 12:02 PM
No.

Zagdawg
07-02-2017, 12:04 PM
Nope -- but it is nice to see rivals drop games at Portland on their Northwest road trip-- as the competition is very focused on the Zags.

jchocolate99
07-02-2017, 01:22 PM
And yet BYU can't sniff a top 2 finish in the WCC. BYU may know how to beat GU, but they haven't figured out how to consistently beat everybody else in the league. St. Mary's is GU's only real competition to win the conference each year.

Your point is valid in regards to competition for the league title but BYU is RIGHT there with SMC as far as our competition and rival... They are built to beat us and have owned us at home the last few seasons and it's no cake walk to beat them in Utah... Doesn't matter where they are finishing in the league they are a thorn in our side in regards to wins in league

TexasZagFan
07-02-2017, 01:32 PM
And yet BYU can't sniff a top 2 finish in the WCC. BYU may know how to beat GU, but they haven't figured out how to consistently beat everybody else in the league. St. Mary's is GU's only real competition to win the conference each year.

Doesn't matter...they've beaten us at home twice in a row on Seniors Night. That's enough for me.

The fact that they're BYU is sufficient for me...my antipathy for those teams has been building for about 40 years.

As far as conference rivalries go, it's SMC-BYU-and USF, which has also been a thorn in our side over the past decade.

jazzdelmar
07-02-2017, 02:07 PM
not even close.....just WCC bottom dwellers.....dont sleep on USF, they could supplant byu

jazzdelmar
07-02-2017, 02:08 PM
Your point is valid in regards to competition for the league title but BYU is RIGHT there with SMC as far as our competition and rival... They are built to beat us and have owned us at home the last few seasons and it's no cake walk to beat them in Utah... Doesn't matter where they are finishing in the league they are a thorn in our side in regards to wins in league

And why is that?

RenoZag
07-02-2017, 03:12 PM
I guess it's all semantics at this point. I consider all of the league schools rivals, with BYU and SMC arch-rivals.

When GU plays Washington, it's for bragging rights, but of late, UW's poor showing has reduced the rivalry to a mildly interesting pre-season tune up.

If GU and Arizona continue to play home and homes, then I think that series will become a true rivalry. Otherwise, I don't consider OOC match-ups rivalry games.

Hope you're having a fine summer. Enjoy the Independence Day festivities. I have to work a half-day tomorrow, then I'm off

23dpg
07-02-2017, 03:56 PM
No, but I hope that can some day will be fierce rivals.

LongIslandZagFan
07-02-2017, 05:48 PM
Never saw them as anything other than our travel partner for years. I'd love for them to be toward the top rather than say... USF... I respect the program but until they start beating GU at some point, hard to consider them rivals.

hooter73
07-02-2017, 08:29 PM
They're probably my least unliked wcc team but rivals, sorry but not even close.

Ekrub
07-03-2017, 05:29 AM
Tough to consider Portland a rival when I rooted for Reveno to do well.

gonzagafan62
07-03-2017, 07:27 AM
And yet BYU can't sniff a top 2 finish in the WCC. BYU may know how to beat GU, but they haven't figured out how to consistently beat everybody else in the league. St. Mary's is GU's only real competition to win the conference each year.

How many times has SMC won the league in the past 20 years? 3! Only 3! So how are they so far superior than BYU? BYU has been in this conference for what 5 years? Lol

kitzbuel
07-03-2017, 07:36 AM
How many times has SMC won the league in the past 20 years? 3! Only 3! So how are they so far superior than BYU? BYU has been in this conference for what 5 years? Lol

SMC has won the regular season title twice in that time frame, won the conference tournament once as well. I bet BYU would love to have that success.

Ezag
07-03-2017, 08:24 AM
No. Only BYU and Saint Mary's

TexasZagFan
07-03-2017, 09:29 AM
No. Only BYU and Saint Mary's

When you consider the Zags, BYU, and SMC have all of the WCC NCAA Tournament units for nearly 10 years (USD made it in 2008), IMO that pretty much sums up what a "rivalry" is. I have hope for USF and a few other schools.

75Zag
07-04-2017, 08:03 PM
Portland is spending new and serious money on their BB team and facilities. I think Chiles is the best BB venue in the WCC. The new training facility is very nice, and Portland administration is spending more on coaching staff - not just on Porter but also on some better assistant salaries. But the bottom line is that GU was struck by lightning in the form of a couple freak NCAA wins, a few freaky good European players, some good publicity, and some major donors willing to bankroll facilities, travel, etc. at exactly the right time. I would love to see Portland challenge St. Mary's or the Mormons for 2nd or 3rd place in the NCAA but I don't see that happening in the next couple years. But good luck to the Pilots!

Go Bulldogs!

GoZags
07-05-2017, 08:32 PM
On the UP board there is an ongoing debate as to whether UP-GU can still be considered a rivalry given the disparity in program performance over the last 20 years. Do Gonzaga fans still consider Portland to be a rival? If not, who is the current rival?

http://www.pilotnation.net/t5883-need-help-writing-a-pilot-history-piece

Sorry ... a rival would need to have a better winning percentage than .044 (2 wins 43 losses) over the last 2 decades. At least in my book. That being said, I'd love for the Pilots to "re"emerge as a rival. I agree that "current" "rivals" include SMC, BYU and U of A.

bartruff1
07-05-2017, 08:39 PM
The Celtics were 8-0 in NBA Championships against the Lakers in what might have been a very bitter rivalry ...

thebigsmoove
07-06-2017, 11:09 AM
Record does not necessarily indicate the validity of a rivalry. In the sense that we play Portland twice annually in conference, they are in fact a rival by proxy, whether they are good competition isnt necessarily as important. If they played better then perhaps it would be a more fierce rivalry, especially with the fact that they are the two northernmost and only Pacific Northwest teams in the WCC. I would say Saint Marys and BYU are our biggest in conference rivals, with Washington and Washington St being our two biggest out of conference but in state rivals. Hopefully we can get the Cougs back on the schedule and the dawgs will start playing good basketball again soon.

I dont think Arizona is really a rival in the sense that we do not play them every year and there is no real geographical or conference tie in to our scheduling agreements when we do play.

TexasZagFan
07-06-2017, 11:21 AM
Record does not necessarily indicate the validity of a rivalry. In the sense that we play Portland twice annually in conference, they are in fact a rival by proxy, whether they are good competition isnt necessarily as important. If they played better then perhaps it would be a more fierce rivalry, especially with the fact that they are the two northernmost and only Pacific Northwest teams in the WCC. I would say Saint Marys and BYU are our biggest in conference rivals, with Washington and Washington St being our two biggest out of conference but in state rivals. Hopefully we can get the Cougs back on the schedule and the dawgs will start playing good basketball again soon.

I dont think Arizona is really a rival in the sense that we do not play them every year and there is no real geographical or conference tie in to our scheduling agreements when we do play.

IMHO, we think of Arizona as more of a rivalry than U of A fans see it. It helped that we won last year, plus there have been a few classic games over the years.

thebigsmoove
07-06-2017, 11:44 AM
IMHO, we think of Arizona as more of a rivalry than U of A fans see it. It helped that we won last year, plus there have been a few classic games over the years.

I would agree on that point. Arizona fans see us as just a mid major from the boonies.

scrooner
07-06-2017, 12:07 PM
And even when we beat Arizona they don't buy it. Tainted!

Angelo Roncalli
07-06-2017, 12:51 PM
Gonzaga v. Portland has none of the elements of a rivalry except length of the series. The historical number of games played seems more a function of proximity than an intense desire to play against the particular opponent. The Portland games have none of the trappings of rivalry games. With a true rivalry, fans of BOTH teams mark the game(s) on their calendars, look forward to the game(s) for months, consider the game(s) to be highlights of the season, and covet the bragging rights that go along with winning. There is no such bilateral enthusiasm for Gonzaga games against Portland. Portland fans may think "here's our chance to beat Gonzaga and get on SportsCenter," but Gonzaga fans are not ecstatic about an opportunity to beat the Pilots. While Portland fans know the details of the Pilots two wins over the Zags in the past 21 seasons, I don't think any GU fan considers any of the 43 GU wins over Portland during the same time period to be particularly memorable. Gonzaga fans don't covet their wins over Portland and sit around reminiscing and reliving games against Portland. No one would get depressed if their wife deleted last year's game at Chiles from the DVR. The reason Gonzaga fans have some enthusiasm about the annual game at Chiles is because it presents an opportunity to get tickets to see the Zags play, not because the opponent is the Portland Pilots. Gonzaga v. Portland has never been scheduled by ESPN for the WCC's annual contribution to Rivalry Week. Portland is not a rival.

thebigsmoove
07-06-2017, 01:08 PM
Gonzaga v. Portland has none of the elements of a rivalry except length of the series. The historical number of games played seems more a function of proximity than an intense desire to play against the particular opponent. The Portland games have none of the trappings of rivalry games. With a true rivalry, fans of BOTH teams mark the game(s) on their calendars, look forward to the game(s) for months, consider the game(s) to be highlights of the season, and covet the bragging rights that go along with winning. There is no such bilateral enthusiasm for Gonzaga games against Portland. Portland fans may think "here's our chance to beat Gonzaga and get on SportsCenter," but Gonzaga fans are not ecstatic about an opportunity to beat the Pilots. While Portland fans know the details of the Pilots two wins over the Zags in the past 21 seasons, I don't think any GU fan considers any of the 43 GU wins over Portland during the same time period to be particularly memorable. Gonzaga fans don't covert their wins over Portland and sit around reminiscing and reliving games against Portland. No one would get depressed if their wife deleted last year's game at Chiles from the DVR. The reason Gonzaga fans have some enthusiasm about the annual game at Chiles is because it presents an opportunity to get tickets to see the Zags play, not because the opponent is the Portland Pilots. Gonzaga v. Portland has never been scheduled by ESPN for the WCC's annual contribution to Rivalry Week. Portland is not a rival.

In the modern interpretation of what a rivalry is, i understand your position. In the literal definition of what a rivalry is, They are in fact rivals, win-loss record be damned.


competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field.

GoZags
07-06-2017, 01:21 PM
In the modern interpretation of what a rivalry is, i understand your position. In the literal definition of what a rivalry is, They are in fact rivals, win-loss record be damned.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I am glad you've shared it. I disagree with it however. There IS a difference between the definition of an "opponent" vs a "rival". I see UP as no more than a longtime opponent. As I said earlier, I'd love to see a rivalry emerge.

Coach Crazy
07-06-2017, 06:31 PM
In the modern interpretation of what a rivalry is, i understand your position. In the literal definition of what a rivalry is, They are in fact rivals, win-loss record be damned.

And the definition you are using makes Minnesota and Miami rivals (NBA). It makes the player at the end of the bench and LeBron James rivals simply because they exist in the same space and may have similar desires.

This is reductionism.


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thebigsmoove
07-07-2017, 04:19 AM
And the definition you are using makes Minnesota and Miami rivals (NBA). It makes the player at the end of the bench and LeBron James rivals simply because they exist in the same space and may have similar desires.

This is reductionism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I tend to think that the idea that a team can only be a rival IF they have an equal win loss record to be skirting reality. Like the example used on this board of the Lakers and Celtics.

GoZags
07-07-2017, 07:12 AM
I tend to think that the idea that a team can only be a rival IF they have an equal win loss record to be skirting reality. Like the example used on this board of the Lakers and Celtics.

Who said anything about an "equal" win loss record?

I consider SMC a "rival" even with the .172 winning percentage (hardly "equal") against Gonzaga over the last 2 decades (10-48). It seems to me a "rival" that plays 2 or 3 games a year should win more than 1 game a decade against their "rival".

As for the vaunted Lakers/Celtics rivalry .... those are 2 storied NBA teams and the Lakers have won 3 of the last 4 NBA finals series. For "this" to be an example, one would have to think of the Portland Pilot basketball program as "vaunted". I don't.

gonzagafan62
07-07-2017, 07:47 AM
Who said anything about an "equal" win loss record?

I consider SMC a "rival" even with the .172 winning percentage (hardly "equal") against Gonzaga over the last 2 decades (10-48). It seems to me a "rival" that plays 2 or 3 games a year should win more than 1 game a decade against their "rival".

As for the vaunted Lakers/Celtics rivalry .... those are 2 storied NBA teams and the Lakers have won 3 of the last 4 NBA finals series. For "this" to be an example, one would have to think of the Portland Pilot basketball program as "vaunted". I don't.

Lakers/Celtics is a horrible example if we are being honest. Those two had a rivalry in the 80s and that's about it. The 60s was all celtics and lately it's been mostly lakers.

BYU has now stopped two of our perfect record in conference. Have a completely raucous crowd that hates everything about us..... thought they were going to cakewalk over this league.... and I can't remember a game that wasn't close at the end anymore. We stole one with Perkins and "The steal" on collinsworth.... they ended our perfect regular season....2016 was a battle and the real conference championship was against BYU. I knew if we beat them in WCC semis that we'd win Monday despite the fact SMC was 2-0 against us.

BYU has spoiled our hopes and dreams more than SMC and after you add 2011 and fredette like 3 of heir top 5 wins in their history are against us. I'm sure SMCs are too, but come on they never stopped us from doing something that was earth shattering and I don't fear SMC in the slightest.

I do fear, hate and absolutely despise playing BYU.

GoZags
07-07-2017, 07:54 AM
Lakers/Celtics is a horrible example if we are being honest. Those two had a rivalry in the 80s and that's about it. The 60s was all celtics and lately it's been mostly lakers.

BYU has now stopped two of our perfect record in conference. Have a completely raucous crowd that hates everything about us..... thought they were going to cakewalk over this league.... and I can't remember a game that wasn't close at the end anymore. We stole one with Perkins and "The steal" on collinsworth.... they ended our perfect regular season....2016 was a battle and the real conference championship was against BYU. I knew if we beat them in WCC semis that we'd win Monday despite the fact SMC was 2-0 against us.

BYU has spoiled our hopes and dreams more than SMC and after you add 2011 and fredette like 3 of heir top 5 wins in their history are against us. I'm sure SMCs are too, but come on they never stopped us from doing something that was earth shattering and I don't fear SMC in the slightest.

I do fear, hate and absolutely despise playing BYU.
Agree in that I also consider BYU a rival ....

But as for the Lakers/Celtics ...

Celtics/Lakers rivalry "saved" the NBA -cnn
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/entertainment/celtics-lakers-review/index.html

Celtics/Lakers rivalry through the years -
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/celtics-lakers-rivalry-years-article-1.3238683

Donnie Wahlberg discusses "greatest" rivalry
http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/donnie-wahlberg-on-lakers-celtics-rivalry-w488145

jazzdelmar
07-07-2017, 09:06 AM
Celts v Lakes is freighted with many, many things beyond W-L and even the games on the court.

gozagswoohoo
07-07-2017, 09:58 AM
http://i.imgur.com/3An7Itb.jpg

gueastcoast
07-07-2017, 11:51 AM
While it may not show up quite this way in a dictionary, I think intuitively most of us would conceive of a rivalry as comprised of two evenly matched opponents, even if the W/L over a given time series reflects dominance by one of the parties.

60s Laker/Celtics - rivalry (despite Celtics' dominance)
80s Lakers/Celtics - rivalry (despite Lakers' superior record)
Secretariat/Sham - rivalry (despite Sham going o-fer)
Zags/Pilots - no

bartruff1
07-07-2017, 12:29 PM
Secretariat....GOAT.....had no rival...... past or present.... ;)





Well, maybe a tip of the cap to Man of War.....

CodeCobalt
07-07-2017, 06:33 PM
In the modern interpretation of what a rivalry is, i understand your position. In the literal definition of what a rivalry is, They are in fact rivals, win-loss record be damned.

No way is it a rivalry, look at the definition of rivalry; competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field.

Gonzaga and Portland are on completely different levels, Portland does not provide competition to Gonzaga. Gonzaga goes out every year for the national title, Portland competes for at best 3rd in the WCC.


Celts v Lakes is freighted with many, many things beyond W-L and even the games on the court.

This, they HATED each other, rivalry was as off the court as on the court. I don't dismiss Portland, but there's literally nothing there for a rivalry. As you see here, a lot of GU fans root for Portland, not despise them.

Robzagnut
07-07-2017, 08:36 PM
No.

1. Students don't sleep over night in tents in line to get tickets.

2. Season ticket holders give these tickets away to friends and family.