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Zag_Dad
05-16-2017, 04:12 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BULDVpbjSWV/

Disappointed

btzag
05-16-2017, 04:14 PM
Not surprised at all.

Zagdawg
05-16-2017, 04:23 PM
Not sure that was the best place for him -- but that is his call. He left because he was not getting playing time due to the depth in front of him at Duke -- Zona has a ton of talent there and coming in also.

allbusiness_zag
05-16-2017, 04:24 PM
Not surprised at all.

Lol.

Zag_Dad
05-16-2017, 04:28 PM
Not surprised at all.

To be honest, I am a little surprised. Gonzaga has a history of developing kids during red shirt year, especially bigs, just came off a run to the national championship game and has an immediate need (through period after his required red shirt) for a true center. To me, Gonzaga seemed like the best fit. I am a little biased.

Zagdawg
05-16-2017, 04:30 PM
Agree Zag_Dad -- on a positive note it does plug up another scholly for Zona -- maybe we can finally get a big to come here - ;)

Zag_Dad
05-16-2017, 04:35 PM
Agree Zag_Dad -- on a positive note it does plug up another scholly for Zona -- maybe we can finally get a big to come here - ;)

True. Plenty of time to find someone from class of 18' to join Zags. Things happen for a reason.

GoZags
05-16-2017, 04:55 PM
Arizona has a great program, a beautiful campus, unlimited resources and pretty girls.

That being said, I hope Jeter ends his U of A career with Sean Miller's "no Final Four, ever" streak intact.

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 05:05 PM
Has there been 1 ounce of substantial good news this offseason? Seems like a bunch of disappointments, which after a national championship appearance, is a MAJOR disappointment in itself.

Zag_Dad
05-16-2017, 05:20 PM
Has there been 1 ounce of substantial good news this offseason? Seems like a bunch of disappointments, which after a national championship appearance, is a MAJOR disappointment in itself.

Ayayi

GoZags
05-16-2017, 05:20 PM
Has there been 1 ounce of substantial good news this offseason? Seems like a bunch of disappointments, which after a national championship appearance, is a MAJOR disappointment in itself.

Huh?

Mark Few hasn't taken another job. Tommy Lloyd hasn't taken another job. Neither has Donny Daniels or Brian Michaelson. Not sure if it's been announced but J3 will return.

Not sure what "expectations" were for the 6 weeks following the Final Four ... but I certainly don't see anything disappointing, let along any MAJOR disappointments. The Zags will be fine. The new guys (that we don't know about yet) will be fine. Sure, Jeter would have been a perfect fit for the Zags, but he didn't want to come. But the Zags will be fine.

At least that's my perspective.

jazzdelmar
05-16-2017, 05:34 PM
JW3 returning? That's news, big news. Confirmed?

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 05:39 PM
Ayayi

key word.. substantial

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 05:39 PM
JW3 returning? That's news, big news. Confirmed?

Lets be honest... no one expected him to leave in the first place..

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 05:41 PM
Huh?

Mark Few hasn't taken another job. Tommy Lloyd hasn't taken another job. Neither has Donny Daniels or Brian Michaelson. Not sure if it's been announced but J3 will return.

Not sure what "expectations" were for the 6 weeks following the Final Four ... but I certainly don't see anything disappointing, let along any MAJOR disappointments. The Zags will be fine. The new guys (that we don't know about yet) will be fine. Sure, Jeter would have been a perfect fit for the Zags, but he didn't want to come. But the Zags will be fine.

At least that's my perspective.

You're quite the optimist. I have a count of at least 0-3 on guys i thought we were getting and havent

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 05:42 PM
oh and two guys who would have gotten a few minutes have transferred or are not coming back

Zag_Dad
05-16-2017, 05:49 PM
key word.. substantial

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joel-Ayayi-97191/

Kid is 17 years old, is 6'4" and has a wingspan that measures 6'8". I expect he is going to play out to be a "substantial" commitment once he's developed under Few. If he was an America HS player we would all be talking about what a great snag he is.

We'll have to wait and see how it plays out but I'm of the mindset that he is "substantially" good news thus offseason.

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 05:55 PM
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Joel-Ayayi-97191/

Kid is 17 years old, is 6'4" and has a wingspan that measures 6'8". I expect he is going to play out to be a "substantial" commitment once he's developed under Few. If he was an America HS player we would all be talking about what a great snag he is.

We'll have to wait and see how it plays out but I'm of the mindset that he is "substantially" good news thus offseason.

Maybe, maybe not. The guys we lost out on were all better prospects according to most all scouts

GoZags
05-16-2017, 05:58 PM
You're quite the optimist. I have a count of at least 0-3 on guys i thought we were getting and havent

Ahhhh ... now I understand.

There's a reason Tommy has said that folks know about 5 percent of what's really going on.

Nothing is in the bag until it's in the bag ... and thus far I haven't seen anything close to a "MAJOR" disappointment in the 6 weeks since the Final Four. But again, that's my opinion. It's also my opinion that the Zags will be just fine.

Coach Crazy
05-16-2017, 06:00 PM
Meh. Next.


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zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 06:02 PM
I will go jump on my unicorn and frolic in a garden of roses under unlimited rainbows.

Ezag
05-16-2017, 06:07 PM
Good riddance

GoZags
05-16-2017, 06:08 PM
I will go jump on my unicorn and frolic in a garden of roses under unlimited rainbows.

Or you can choose to not see "1 ounce" of anything positive since Gonzaga made it to the National Championship game ... and only see "MAJOR" disappointments .... or throw shade at a kid that the staff chose over one of your "0 for 3" guys .... (and they feel the guy they got IS "substantial"... in fact VERY substantial).

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 06:11 PM
Or you can choose to not see "1 ounce" of anything positive since Gonzaga made it to the National Championship game ... and only see "MAJOR" disappointments .... or throw shade at a kid that the staff chose over one of your "0 for 3" guys .... (and they feel the guy they got IS "substantial"... in fact VERY substantial).

This isnt the YMCA... a team that is going to the national championship can take some criticism when we miss out on Singleton, Jeter, Brown when we are supposed to be capitalizing on success. Welcome to the Big Time.

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 06:12 PM
This isnt the YMCA... a team that is going to the national championship can take some criticism when we miss out on Singleton, Jeter, Brown when we are supposed to be capitalizing on success. Welcome to the Big Time.

oh and Makai Mason... maybe the Memphis kid too.. not sure how hard they wanted him.

zagbeliever
05-16-2017, 06:14 PM
Bummed but our program is built around kids who are willing to share minutes. Do we really want someone who is leaving a program because he is not getting enough? Probably not the best fit. Team first.

GoZags
05-16-2017, 06:19 PM
This isnt the YMCA... .

Thanks for clearing that up.

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 06:22 PM
What happened to BZ's inside scoops... i used to get high off his scoops to get me through the days.

jazzdelmar
05-16-2017, 06:29 PM
What happened to BZ's inside scoops... i used to get high off his scoops to get me through the days.

He's got Chelsea on his mind.

tyra
05-16-2017, 06:31 PM
I wanted Jeter also and am disappointed he is going elsewhere but the truth is I want Kamaka Hepa more next year and I think they both play the 4.

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 06:34 PM
I wanted Jeter also and am disappointed he is going elsewhere but the truth is I want Kamaka Hepa more next year and I think they both play the 4.

Now thats rationale i can follow. Fair enough--- if we get Hepa.

JAGzag
05-16-2017, 06:42 PM
Too bad. But let's face it, he had a real chance to be a star here with our history of developing bigs with a redshirt or down year = proven track record. If he wasn't anything at Duke...he won't be at AZ!

thespywhozaggedme
05-16-2017, 06:54 PM
I will go jump on my unicorn and frolic in a garden of roses under unlimited rainbows.

I bet you'll be shocked when we win 30+ games again next year.

Zag_Dad
05-16-2017, 07:01 PM
Here's some good news: Eric Mika will hire and agent and remain in the draft, BYU coach Dave Rose told ESPN.

maynard g krebs
05-16-2017, 07:05 PM
Has there been 1 ounce of substantial good news this offseason? Seems like a bunch of disappointments, which after a national championship appearance, is a MAJOR disappointment in itself.

After the E8 two years ago, the Zags signed Collins, Tillie, Larsen, Norvell, Rui. Do you have any idea how good that class was? A couple of decades ago, the Zags would be lucky to get a sniff from any of those guys, all of whom have a shot at the NBA and will at least all be good Euro players.

Patience and perspective. All is good.

Zag_Dad
05-16-2017, 07:06 PM
After the E8 two years ago, the Zags signed Collins, Tillie, Larsen, Norvell, Rui. Do you have any idea how good that class was? A couple of decades ago, the Zags would be lucky to get a sniff from any of those guys, all of whom have a shot at the NBA and will at least all be good Euro players.

Patience and perspective. All is good.

This /\

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 07:10 PM
I bet you'll be shocked when we win 30+ games again next year.

I would be absolutely shocked if we win 30 games next year.

btzag
05-16-2017, 07:26 PM
This isnt the YMCA... a team that is going to the national championship can take some criticism when we miss out on Singleton, Jeter, Brown when we are supposed to be capitalizing on success. Welcome to the Big Time.

Singleton was a disappointment. Brown made no sense to me for the zags and Jeter was never going to a non-power 5 school.

MDABE80
05-16-2017, 07:48 PM
IN AZ you have two of the best recruiters in the history of basketball. One can coach but both can recruit high end kids.
It'll be a tougher season for us. This FF run was quite addicting and likely won't happen for a bit. We have a great nucleus of players. ONly one or two away from the deep run. It isn't over yet.

Coach Crazy
05-16-2017, 07:48 PM
oh and Makai Mason... maybe the Memphis kid too.. not sure how hard they wanted him.

Makai Mason? Are we fielding a chess team? Jesse Wade would school that dude. And Markel Crawford didn't really address any needs. You already have Silas and Zack manning the 2 and 3, and Rui and Corey most likely getting minutes there at the 3. He's a decent player, but not a great passer/facilitator.

As far as who is not coming here. UCLA beat out even Arizona for David Singleton. Great, it happens. Is it easier for Arizona to get over it with guys like Ayton and Shaq's kid? Sure. But either way, even winning a natty wasn't going to bring every kid here.

With regard to Jeter, he left a place where he wasn't getting any playing time...to a place where he could still be a 10-15 minute player. And unless the system allows him to be an efficiency-value piece of the puzzle, he may not end up getting drafted. He could end up being just a Euro/D-League player. Can Romar develop a player? Sure. But how many multi-year big's did he do that with? Can Miller? Most likely not. So, while a willing and committed Chase Jeter does this program a great deal of good...current Chase Jeter wouldn't. As well, he wouldn't even be till 2018. So, we don't even know what that finished roster will look like.

The 2017 Zags will have a different look, and less continuity...but how many people called a trip to the natty this season? Not many. Or at least not many actually believed it. What I find funny, is that we finally have a bunch of height, athleticism, defense, skill and length at the 3...and now all of the sudden it's not enough.

Careful that we don't run conflicting narratives. Getting David Singleton doesn't get you a trip to the NC next year. Nor does Chase Jeter, or Makai Mason, or Markel Crawford. Nor does Elijah Brown.

We may not see another return trip next year, but this team is still S16/E8 good. I can't make you see that, but I can tell you to wipe the mud out of your eyes.

Coach Crazy
05-16-2017, 07:50 PM
I would be absolutely shocked if we win 30 games next year.

If you're talking about regular season wins, you might be justified in being surprised for that to happen. If you're talking about total wins including WCC and NCAA tourney, you're clinging to hyperbole.

Zag_Dad
05-16-2017, 08:04 PM
Makai Mason? Are we fielding a chess team? Jesse Wade would school that dude. And Markel Crawford didn't really address any needs. You already have Silas and Zack manning the 2 and 3, and Rui and Corey most likely getting minutes there at the 3. He's a decent player, but not a great passer/facilitator.

As far as who is not coming here. UCLA beat out even Arizona for David Singleton. Great, it happens. Is it easier for Arizona to get over it with guys like Ayton and Shaq's kid? Sure. But either way, even winning a natty wasn't going to bring every kid here.

With regard to Jeter, he left a place where he wasn't getting any playing time...to a place where he could still be a 10-15 minute player. And unless the system allows him to be an efficiency-value piece of the puzzle, he may not end up getting drafted. He could end up being just a Euro/D-League player. Can Romar develop a player? Sure. But how many multi-year big's did he do that with? Can Miller? Most likely not. So, while a willing and committed Chase Jeter does this program a great deal of good...current Chase Jeter wouldn't. As well, he wouldn't even be till 2018. So, we don't even know what that finished roster will look like.

The 2017 Zags will have a different look, and less continuity...but how many people called a trip to the natty this season? Not many. Or at least not many actually believed it. What I find funny, is that we finally have a bunch of height, athleticism, defense, skill and length at the 3...and now all of the sudden it's not enough.

Careful that we don't run conflicting narratives. Getting David Singleton doesn't get you a trip to the NC next year. Nor does Chase Jeter, or Makai Mason, or Markel Crawford. Nor does Elijah Brown.

We may not see another return trip next year, but this team is still S16/E8 good. I can't make you see that, but I can tell you to wipe the mud out of your eyes.

Absolutely, 100% agree! Problem is, everyone is comparing next year's team to this year's tea. Few will coach the talent he has. He won't have Shem and Collins but he has A LOT of talent. Added depth at front court would be nice but it may not be in the cards. Rooks, maybe?

Ekrub
05-16-2017, 08:20 PM
Dont feel like we have really missed out on much to be honest. Some decent players, and some with potential - but no clear studs like NWG, wiltjer, wesley, et al.

thespywhozaggedme
05-16-2017, 08:29 PM
I would be absolutely shocked if we win 30 games next year.

We have amazing shooting, ball handling, rebounding and defense, and our usual depth. The only potential question mark is depth at center behind Larsen. This is a very very good team and I'm so excited to see the younger players develop.

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 08:31 PM
We have amazing shooting, ball handling, rebounding and defense, and our usual depth. The only potential question mark is depth at center behind Larsen. This is a very very good team and I'm so excited to see the younger players develop.

I am excited to see them play as well and develop.. development year with an outside chance at a sweet 16.

Hoopaholic
05-16-2017, 08:32 PM
We have amazing shooting, ball handling, rebounding and defense, and our usual depth. The only potential question mark is depth at center behind Larsen. This is a very very good team and I'm so excited to see the younger players develop.

Me to. Going be fast paced wide open offense with exceptional defense

zagsfanforlife
05-16-2017, 08:33 PM
Makai Mason? Are we fielding a chess team? Jesse Wade would school that dude. And Markel Crawford didn't really address any needs. You already have Silas and Zack manning the 2 and 3, and Rui and Corey most likely getting minutes there at the 3. He's a decent player, but not a great passer/facilitator.

As far as who is not coming here. UCLA beat out even Arizona for David Singleton. Great, it happens. Is it easier for Arizona to get over it with guys like Ayton and Shaq's kid? Sure. But either way, even winning a natty wasn't going to bring every kid here.

With regard to Jeter, he left a place where he wasn't getting any playing time...to a place where he could still be a 10-15 minute player. And unless the system allows him to be an efficiency-value piece of the puzzle, he may not end up getting drafted. He could end up being just a Euro/D-League player. Can Romar develop a player? Sure. But how many multi-year big's did he do that with? Can Miller? Most likely not. So, while a willing and committed Chase Jeter does this program a great deal of good...current Chase Jeter wouldn't. As well, he wouldn't even be till 2018. So, we don't even know what that finished roster will look like.

The 2017 Zags will have a different look, and less continuity...but how many people called a trip to the natty this season? Not many. Or at least not many actually believed it. What I find funny, is that we finally have a bunch of height, athleticism, defense, skill and length at the 3...and now all of the sudden it's not enough.

Careful that we don't run conflicting narratives. Getting David Singleton doesn't get you a trip to the NC next year. Nor does Chase Jeter, or Makai Mason, or Markel Crawford. Nor does Elijah Brown.

We may not see another return trip next year, but this team is still S16/E8 good. I can't make you see that, but I can tell you to wipe the mud out of your eyes.

Lots of unproven talent that would need to all come together for a Elite 8 run... we have had 3 teams that have made it that far.. all had more experience.

And its not a conflicting narrative. Getting any of those players, outside of singleton, would give us a better shot at making a deeper run than what we currently have. 3 open scholarships, and a lot of unproven talent. Jeter sits but still great to battle against in practice..

Time will tell if we fill those open scholarships with better guys than we are missing on... maybe another matthews situatiion ensues. Jeremy Jones taking up a scholarship instead of any of those guys .. hmm.

MDABE80
05-16-2017, 09:15 PM
Well I'm not giving up just yet. I do think we have A Round of 32-Sweet 16 team unless we get paired up with a team on a mission with lots of talent. I really don't know how good we are. We have some good pieces. How they fit and how well the new faces perform simply cannot be known till later Fall. Losing 4 of out top 5 kids makes thing harder. But a great core is present. If they had better size, I'd say Kispert and Wade could make up the different. But Karno won't be replaced. So, it'll be a very different team. Still I'm a bit incredulous that this FF team isn't having luck with big time kids. NO matter. We are what we are.

Coach Crazy
05-16-2017, 09:30 PM
Lots of unproven talent that would need to all come together for a Elite 8 run... we have had 3 teams that have made it that far.. all had more experience.

Any player that comes in here, due to the system and camaraderie of this program is also going to be unproven, on some level. And while those teams had more experience, adding players with insufficient talent/production doesn't make up the difference.


And its not a conflicting narrative. Getting any of those players, outside of singleton, would give us a better shot at making a deeper run than what we currently have. 3 open scholarships, and a lot of unproven talent. Jeter sits but still great to battle against in practice..

So, I am going to ask you some questions. You seem adamant about your position on players like Makai Mason and Markel Crawford. You believe that a 6'1" 180-something pound guard that is a sub-par 3-shooter, would be the worst defender in the rotation, and provides very little offensive value would be a valuable addition to this team? One that we will miss because we did not get?

How would you utilize a 2/3 that isn't a good shooter or passer/facilitator, in Mark Few's offense? A bunch of back-picks, or iso's on the wing?


There *ARE* some conflicting narratives. Chase Jeter can help out in practice...but if it wasn't Gonzaga dropping the ball, then it wasn't a player that is necessarily guaranteed to give you what you think we are missing out on.



Time will tell if we fill those open scholarships with better guys than we are missing on... maybe another matthews situatiion ensues. Jeremy Jones taking up a scholarship instead of any of those guys .. hmm.

Replacing Bryan Alberts with Makai Mason is a step down. Markel has produced more in his career...but he isn't a fit. Elijah Brown is a kid you take a flyer on, but he's been a bit of a volume guy that apparently has some limited basketball IQ.

Ayayi is an unknown quantity, but he has some tremendous upside. And we've had an intensified number of freshman stepping into critical roles recently. So, while there are unknowns...Norvell, Larsen, Kispert, Wade, and Ayayi is a lot of talent to bring in on a freshman level. I don't want Makai Mason, Markel Crawford, or Elijah Brown taking minutes from those guys.

maynard g krebs
05-16-2017, 10:20 PM
Lots of unproven talent that would need to all come together for a Elite 8 run... we have had 3 teams that have made it that far.. all had more experience.


I think you're seriously underestimating Norvell and Kispert, and probably Wade based on what those who've seen him say. Norvell looked like the best offensive player on the floor in the exhibition game imo, or at least close to it. Kispert scored 39 in the championship game of the Seattle pro-am league in the title game; Jamal Crawford scored 35 for the other team in a game that went to the wire.

I expect those guys to about as good overall as fr as Adam Morrison was, assuming their injuries heal.

The way kids are turning pro early and transferring these days, having 2 starters and 2 key subs back is better than a lot of teams. You never know in the tourney, but I agree w/ Crazy's guess of 16 or E8 as the likely range of outcomes.

WallaWallaZag
05-16-2017, 10:22 PM
I am excited to see them play as well and develop.. development year with an outside chance at a sweet 16.

...and based on what you've been writing it sounds like this would be a disappointment for you??? gonzaga may be stepping up to the big time as a program, but if this is the way you feel maybe you should go be a fan of duke or kentucky.

seacatfan
05-16-2017, 10:30 PM
Bummed but our program is built around kids who are willing to share minutes. Do we really want someone who is leaving a program because he is not getting enough? Probably not the best fit. Team first.

Wouldn't that apply to some of the previous transfers that worked out just fine at GU? And he was BARELY playing at Duke. Can you blame him for wanting to go somewhere else.

seacatfan
05-16-2017, 10:41 PM
Not sure that was the best place for him -- but that is his call. He left because he was not getting playing time due to the depth in front of him at Duke -- Zona has a ton of talent there and coming in also.

Not sure how many players there are going to be at the 4/5 by the time he is eligible after his RS. Ristic will be a Sr. next year and Ayton is almost certainly a one and done. Markannen is already long gone and Comanche may not return, hasn't taken his name out of the draft yet. Pinder will be a Sr. next year. As far as I can tell the only guys likely to be there when Jeter can take the court would be a soph Ira Lee and Fr. Shareef O'Neal. They're certainly hoping to get Marvin Bagley, but that's far from a given. Not really all that crowded of a frontcourt.

sittingon50
05-16-2017, 11:17 PM
Here's some good news: Eric Mika will hire and agent and remain in the draft, BYU coach Dave Rose told ESPN.

BYU won't finish top 3, IMO.

ZagsGoZags
05-17-2017, 01:35 AM
that is news,
prob should be its own thread

kitzbuel
05-17-2017, 02:55 AM
Well I'm not giving up just yet. I do think we have A Round of 32-Sweet 16 team unless we get paired up with a team on a mission with lots of talent. I really don't know how good we are. We have some good pieces. How they fit and how well the new faces perform simply cannot be known till later Fall. Losing 4 of out top 5 kids makes thing harder. But a great core is present. If they had better size, I'd say Kispert and Wade could make up the different. But Karno won't be replaced. So, it'll be a very different team. Still I'm a bit incredulous that this FF team isn't having luck with big time kids. NO matter. We are what we are.
Wow, you have made it all the way to mid-May without giving up on the team yet! You are a diehard! :)

I think I might just hold out and have some hope, too. Maybe even stretch it out until October!

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

jazzdelmar
05-17-2017, 03:26 AM
We have plenty of players. Just a lot of unproven ones. All it takes is one or 2 of them to blow up. There was mostly dreck in the FA market anyway.

thespywhozaggedme
05-17-2017, 03:54 AM
I am excited to see them play as well and develop.. development year with an outside chance at a sweet 16.

If everyone stays healthy I would be shocked if we don't at least make the elite eight. You just don't realize how talented this roster is. You will be very pleasantly surprised.

Zagsker
05-17-2017, 05:39 AM
Too bad. But let's face it, he had a real chance to be a star here with our history of developing bigs with a redshirt or down year = proven track record. If he wasn't anything at Duke...he won't be at AZ!

I keep hearing this...but do we really have a "proven track record" of developing bigs?

Please don't tell me this thought process is Olynk based...that was a unique case where dude grew huge in his time at GU and had wing footwork/handles/shot prior to gaining height and girth

Zagdawg
05-17-2017, 06:10 AM
Zag Forwards and Centers who saw time in the NBA in the last 12 years --- not a bad list
Turiaf, Daye, Sacre, Morrison, Harris, Olynk, Wiltjer, Sabonis --soon to be Collins

WallaWallaZag
05-17-2017, 06:20 AM
Zag Forwards and Centers who saw time in the NBA in the last 12 years --- not a bad list
Turiaf, Daye, Sacre, Morrison, Harris, Olynk, Wiltjer, Sabonis --soon to be Collins

zags in the present are primarily known for developing olynyk and wiltjer via redshirts...jeter probably doesn't consider himself that type of player...in any case, i think jeter was just one of those p5 guys.

Zagsker
05-17-2017, 06:29 AM
Zag Forwards and Centers who saw time in the NBA in the last 12 years --- not a bad list
Turiaf, Daye, Sacre, Morrison, Harris, Olynk, Wiltjer, Sabonis --soon to be Collins

Out of that list the only one I believe you can truly say was "developed" in the sense some GU fans over quantify GU'S ability above others to "develop" bigs is KO...and even then that development, imo, was a confluence of prior natural strengths for KO.

If GU truly was above par for developing bigs, than the Fosters and Edwards of the program would have seen more growth...imo

And just so this does not turn into something I am not saying I will clarify... I think our coaches do a great job of identifying talent and getting people ready, I just don't think GU is far and above other programs in being able to "develop" bigs into something they would not have become at another program. I think some GU fans have taken the KO growth and applied it very liberally to our development potential at GU.

allbusiness_zag
05-17-2017, 07:42 AM
We have plenty of players. Just a lot of unproven ones. All it takes is one or 2 of them to blow up. There was mostly dreck in the FA market anyway.

This is the most positive post I've seen from Jazz in a while and I agree with it. I applaud you, good sir.

https://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

Reborn
05-17-2017, 07:44 AM
I'm with GoZags. I'd say that the Gonzaga coaches have done a great job of recruiting over the last five or six years. We are now getting the talent that can take us to the Final Four and a National Championship. Patience is the key for us fans because we will get the players we need to continue to go forward toward that National Championship. The fact that GU made it to the Final Four does not guarantee that we'll get the players some of the fans want. Nor does it guarantee us that we will make it back there every year. Let's not be arrogant like some of the Blue Bloods, and feel that we are entitled. We are not. But that will not stop us because it has never stopped us. I look forward to the players that do want to come to Gonzaga and be a Zag. And yes, Joel Ayayi is certainly a great get. Continue on!!!

Go Zags!!!

Zagger
05-17-2017, 08:07 AM
Huh?

Mark Few hasn't taken another job. Tommy Lloyd hasn't taken another job. Neither has Donny Daniels or Brian Michaelson. Not sure if it's been announced but J3 will return.

Not sure what "expectations" were for the 6 weeks following the Final Four ... but I certainly don't see anything disappointing, let along any MAJOR disappointments. The Zags will be fine. The new guys (that we don't know about yet) will be fine. Sure, Jeter would have been a perfect fit for the Zags, but he didn't want to come. But the Zags will be fine.

At least that's my perspective.

Mine too :)

kitzbuel
05-17-2017, 08:20 AM
Out of that list the only one I believe you can truly say was "developed" in the sense some GU fans over quantify GU'S ability above others to "develop" bigs is KO...and even then that development, imo, was a confluence of prior natural strengths for KO.

If GU truly was above par for developing bigs, than the Fosters and Edwards of the program would have seen more growth...imo

And just so this does not turn into something I am not saying I will clarify... I think our coaches do a great job of identifying talent and getting people ready, I just don't think GU is far and above other programs in being able to "develop" bigs into something they would not have become at another program. I think some GU fans have taken the KO growth and applied it very liberally to our development potential at GU.

Turiaf, Sacre, and Wiltjer got into the NBA because of the work they did while at GU. The coaches were absolutely key in their development.

DukeSilver
05-17-2017, 08:49 AM
Out of that list the only one I believe you can truly say was "developed" in the sense some GU fans over quantify GU'S ability above others to "develop" bigs is KO...and even then that development, imo, was a confluence of prior natural strengths for KO.

If GU truly was above par for developing bigs, than the Fosters and Edwards of the program would have seen more growth...imo


In a forum typically overflowing with "hot takes", this one strikes me as absolutely bananas ...

Maybe the passage of time has dulled your memory, but Olynyk *completely* transformed his body and his game during his redshirt year, and readily attributes that to the plan put together for him by the coaches and Travis Knight. He put in the work, but the unconventional approach to his skills and conditioning work was a huge part of his explosion as a player.

Wiltjer didn't experience the same physical transformation, but he was certainly a different player after his redshirt year. He developed the strength necessary to improve his back-to-the-basket skills, which turned him from a 6'10" 3-point specialist to a multi-dimensional, 20+ ppg offensive machine.

Now we're hearing reports that Larsen used his redshirt year to add 20 lbs of muscle - not an easy thing to do while recovering from a major knee injury!

If you want to judge the efficacy of GU's ability to develop bigs on two players who were always going to be projects, but never were able to put it all together - by all means, go ahead. But the fact of the matter is that most available evidence completely contradicts your stance.

willandi
05-17-2017, 09:01 AM
So we get Chase as a Grad Transfer in 2 years! That won't be bad. By then he will want to be on a team that will make a deep run in the tourney!

Idahomie
05-17-2017, 10:12 AM
Corey Kispert is going be a stud. We will all be very pleased. Take that to the bank.

zagfan1
05-17-2017, 10:18 AM
I keep hearing this...but do we really have a "proven track record" of developing bigs?

Please don't tell me this thought process is Olynk based...that was a unique case where dude grew huge in his time at GU and had wing footwork/handles/shot prior to gaining height and girth

I believe we do. It's also an emphasis placed on development and incorporating unique training activities to help the athlete develop a more rounded game. It made an impact on Olynk and Wiltjer and I believe it is the reason why they are in the NBA. This is the reason Jeter visited Gonzaga to begin with. Why he didn't end up choosing Gonzaga is a mystery to me. Logic would tell him to go to Gonzaga. Maybe Jeter is in denial about where he is from a basketball perspective. Who knows.

Worthington
05-17-2017, 10:30 AM
I know I'm biased here, but I honestly believe Jeter would be better off at Gonzaga. He's rolling the dice on getting recruited over again. Best of luck to him.

btzag
05-17-2017, 11:38 AM
Out of that list the only one I believe you can truly say was "developed" in the sense some GU fans over quantify GU'S ability above others to "develop" bigs is KO...and even then that development, imo, was a confluence of prior natural strengths for KO.

If GU truly was above par for developing bigs, than the Fosters and Edwards of the program would have seen more growth...imo

And just so this does not turn into something I am not saying I will clarify... I think our coaches do a great job of identifying talent and getting people ready, I just don't think GU is far and above other programs in being able to "develop" bigs into something they would not have become at another program. I think some GU fans have taken the KO growth and applied it very liberally to our development potential at GU.

I think you are confusing 'getting kids ready' with 'developing kids' or maybe you are saying it's the same thing? All I know is the staff brings in lower level recruits and somehow ends up with high-level production guys who then play in the pros. You mentioned two misses but didn't mention the dozens of other good bigs in the last 20 years going back to Bakari Hendrix, Calvary, Dench, Violette, etc. I mean shoot look at the high level prospects that go to an Arizona or Duke or Kansas who completely fall on their face and end up transferring....tons of high 4 star and 5 star kids.

maynard g krebs
05-17-2017, 11:51 AM
If GU truly was above par for developing bigs, than the Fosters and Edwards of the program would have seen more growth...imo



Calvary didn't make the NBA, but was an AA at GU. He was deemed not good enough to get an offer from UW, averaged under 10 minutes and 3.something ppg as a fr to 19 as a sr.

I saw Zach Gourde as a hs senior and my take was that he would be good some place like Seattle Pacific.

Cory Violette's other offers were Mountain West level at best from what I heard. Remember "chunk" and "chisel".

Turiaf was talented but exceedingly raw as a fr. His improvement to NBA level was nothing short of phenomenal imo.

Sacre was ranked around 100 in his hs class and made the NBA.

Wiltjer, Olynyk........

I could go on, but that's enough to make the point imo.

CDC84
05-17-2017, 11:56 AM
I have to admit that I am surprised this kid picked Arizona. Although I think he has the goods to turn into a really good player, I'm just not sure it's a good idea to transfer from one blue blood program to the next. Even if he didn't dig Gonzaga, this kid can play for a number of winning programs that can practically guarantee him playing time because the program likely can't recruit a better player with his level of experience. At Arizona, you better bring it or you will be riding the pine. I don't know, it's kind of a risky deal if you ask me.

seacatfan
05-17-2017, 12:25 PM
I mean shoot look at the high level prospects that go to an Arizona or Duke or Kansas who completely fall on their face and end up transferring....tons of high 4 star and 5 star kids.

Wanna back that statement up? List for me the "tons" of 4 and 5 star kids that fell on their face and transferred out of Arizona. Kansas too while you're at it. I think Duke is the only school you listed that is even remotely close to this being a reality.

seacatfan
05-17-2017, 12:34 PM
By then he will want to be on a team that will make a deep run in the tourney!

Come on now, it's not like Arizona hasn't done anything in the Tourney under Miller. 3 Elite 8's since '11 and twice missed advancing to the Final 4 by 1 bucket. Before GU went Elite 8 in '15 and Championship game in '17 they weren't exactly noted for annual deep runs in the Tourney.

Zagdawg
05-17-2017, 12:36 PM
Many of the top programs seem to have transfers and get transfers.

Here are some Zona transfers -- not sure how many were 4/5 star players.

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/article/2016/03/arizona-basketball-early-transfers-success

Some Kansas transfers

"When the 2016-17 college basketball season began, Kansas coach Bill Self’s transfer scorecard leaned heavily toward the departures.

During Self’s first 13 seasons in charge of the KU program, 14 scholarship players had left KU to go to other Division I programs while nine scholarship players had come to Kansas from other D-I schools."

https://www.landof10.com/ohio-state/carlton-bragg-transfer-kansas

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2017/apr/28/transfer-trend-becoming-more-prevalent-kansas-bask/

willandi
05-17-2017, 12:42 PM
Come on now, it's not like Arizona hasn't done anything in the Tourney under Miller. 3 Elite 8's since '11 and twice missed advancing to the Final 4 by 1 bucket. Before GU went Elite 8 in '15 and Championship game in '17 they weren't exactly noted for annual deep runs in the Tourney.

Well, it was a bit tongue in cheek!

seacatfan
05-17-2017, 01:37 PM
Sorry, I'm overreacting today. Yes, of course every program loses some transfers. I'm sure that's not a comprehensive list for UA, there must be more. But of those guys, Bynum did fairly well at Georgia Tech and the rest did absolutely zip zilch nada. The guys leaving Kansas collectively didn't do a whole lot either. I bet Duke has had more of their transfers out end up being impact players elsewhere. Point being, it wasn't that Arizona and Kansas failed to develop those players for the most part, it's that those players just ended up not being very good, even when they went elsewhere.

jazzdelmar
05-17-2017, 02:53 PM
Sorry, I'm overreacting today. Yes, of course every program loses some transfers. I'm sure that's not a comprehensive list for UA, there must be more. But of those guys, Bynum did fairly well at Georgia Tech and the rest did absolutely zip zilch nada. The guys leaving Kansas collectively didn't do a whole lot either. I bet Duke has had more of their transfers out end up being impact players elsewhere. Point being, it wasn't that Arizona and Kansas failed to develop those players for the most part, it's that those players just ended up not being very good, even when they went elsewhere.

Dook now seems to have perfected the move of chasing disappointing kids to the NBA. To wit, Frank Jackson, who was underused last year and would be benched in favor of Koach's latest 5 star point guard.

seacatfan
05-17-2017, 03:19 PM
Dook now seems to have perfected the move of chasing disappointing kids to the NBA. To wit, Frank Jackson, who was underused last year and would be benched in favor of Koach's latest 5 star point guard.

I was really hoping Duvall wouldn't pick Duke. Even though I wasn't really expecting him to go to Arizona, anywhere else but Duke please. The kids just keep lining up to go to Durham. Other than '15 that one and done model isn't working out very well for K but he's all in now. Coach Cal is getting a bit of diminishing returns lately too.

I bet K was hoping Grayson would take all his distracting antics elsewhere, but they're stuck w/ him for another year.

Zagsker
05-17-2017, 07:21 PM
In a forum typically overflowing with "hot takes", this one strikes me as absolutely bananas ...

Maybe the passage of time has dulled your memory, but Olynyk *completely* transformed his body and his game during his redshirt year, and readily attributes that to the plan put together for him by the coaches and Travis Knight. He put in the work, but the unconventional approach to his skills and conditioning work was a huge part of his explosion as a player.

Wiltjer didn't experience the same physical transformation, but he was certainly a different player after his redshirt year. He developed the strength necessary to improve his back-to-the-basket skills, which turned him from a 6'10" 3-point specialist to a multi-dimensional, 20+ ppg offensive machine.

Now we're hearing reports that Larsen used his redshirt year to add 20 lbs of muscle - not an easy thing to do while recovering from a major knee injury!

If you want to judge the efficacy of GU's ability to develop bigs on two players who were always going to be projects, but never were able to put it all together - by all means, go ahead. But the fact of the matter is that most available evidence completely contradicts your stance.

So, players developed strength after their RS year..yup.

speaks more to the importance of a RS year than anything else..physical maturity combined with mental maturity can do wonders for a player in any program. Gaurantee if more P5 schools had players RS they could also tout a "phenomenal development" program

amaronizag
05-17-2017, 10:33 PM
The red shirt "year" is actually about 20 months. From the end of the season in late March, the player doesn't see a game all of the next season (misses one year of games) and doesn't get to play in a game until about the first of November the next year. So the red shirt year means we fans don't see a player in a game for 20 months. That's a lifetime to a kid that age and a lot changes. In Olynyk's case, by ALL reports, he was the best player in the gym that red shirt year. With him playing in March instead of red shirting, we would have put a wuppin' on Ohio State and advanced further in the tournament. We fans and the team lost the benefit of his contributions for one whole season AND he was the best guy on the team during that red shirt year. We never got that lost year back because he left early for the NBA. It can be argued that he was the exception, and many players are better off taking a red shirt year, but that isn't always true.

In the past GU wasn't able to recruit the talent we're recruiting now. The red shirt had more to do with stashing project players for a year in hopes they would get better with age. Recruiting wasn't as good, the talent was thinner, and we were spreading it out to maximize what we had. Now we're getting better talent across the board so it's harder to convince players to sit out. We're losing players to the NBA before their 4 years of college is up so the recruiting has to keep a steady supply of high caliber talent running through the program if we are to maintain our high level of success. The recruiting challenges are changing.

btzag
05-18-2017, 05:16 AM
So, players developed strength after their RS year..yup.

speaks more to the importance of a RS year than anything else..physical maturity combined with mental maturity can do wonders for a player in any program. Gaurantee if more P5 schools had players RS they could also tout a "phenomenal development" program

So Zagsker, to get right to your point, you believe our coaching staff and bb program and training staff do not do a better job than the average power 5 school at player development? They are only better at identifying talent? Please correct me if I am misconstruing your argument.

GoZags
05-18-2017, 05:27 AM
So Zagsker, to get right to your point, you believe our coaching staff and bb program and training staff do not do a better job than the average power 5 school at player development? They are only better at identifying talent? Please correct me if I am misconstruing your argument.

And given that until this past season (incoming class of 2016/2017), Gonzaga had had a grand total of zero (0) Top 25 recruiting classes per Scout.com .... "something" has been working. And as for Olynyk, someone would have to show me the list of "other" guys that have redshirted after their sophomore year and transformed from a perimeter guy to an NBA lottery big. Or the list of programs that have accomplished that with one of their guys.

TexasZagFan
05-18-2017, 05:44 AM
And given that until this past season (incoming class of 2016/2017), Gonzaga had had a grand total of zero (0) Top 25 recruiting classes per Scout.com .... "something" has been working. And as for Olynyk, someone would have to show me the list of "other" guys that have redshirted after their sophomore year and transformed from a perimeter guy to an NBA lottery big. Or the list of programs that have accomplished that with one of their guys.

Just my $.02, but it's time to put this thread to pasture...Jeter's going to Zona. I wish the kid good luck, and look forward to the Zags kicking more Zona butt down the road.

One of these days, fans of Power 5 schools who perennially underperform with top-20 recruiting classes will ask "how does Gonzaga succeed while rarely showing up on recruiting rankings?"

The answer they better not come back with is "the WCC". You don't make the Dance 19 years in a row because your conference is weak.

TravelinZag
05-18-2017, 05:54 AM
True, but it doesn't hurt. When a conference has, in its best year, only 2 or 3 good teams, it does make it easier to secure a bid, even if the level of competition doesn't prepare a team to do well with the bid. Only a great group of coaches and a culture of unselfish team play can do that. As posted previously, third place in the WCC is the equivalent of last in the WCC.

willandi
05-18-2017, 06:02 AM
True, but it doesn't hurt. When a conference has, in its best year, only 2 or 3 good teams, it does make it easier to secure a bid, even if the level of competition doesn't prepare a team to do well with the bid. Only a great group of coaches and a culture of unselfish team play can do that. As posted previously, third place in the WCC is the equivalent of last in the WCC.

The level of competition in the WCC seems to have prepared the Zags for the tournament better than the level of competition has for the P5 teams, at least when judging by how they have performed relative to their seed.

GoZags
05-18-2017, 06:06 AM
True, but it doesn't hurt. When a conference has, in its best year, only 2 or 3 good teams, it does make it easier to secure a bid, even if the level of competition doesn't prepare a team to do well with the bid. Only a great group of coaches and a culture of unselfish team play can do that. As posted previously, third place in the WCC is the equivalent of last in the WCC.

Huh?

5 WCC programs (GU/SMC/BYU/USF/SCU) would have finished in the top 2/3rds of the Pac 12 this past season per KenPom.... ahead of ASU/OSU/UW/WSU. The WCC finished 9th out of 32 conferences last season. Is the WCC Power 5? Not even close ... but it isn't as hideous as it's made out to be.

TexasZagFan
05-18-2017, 06:57 AM
The level of competition in the WCC seems to have prepared the Zags for the tournament better than the level of competition has for the P5 teams, at least when judging by how they have performed relative to their seed.

Most of those poor souls in the ACC were just too plum-tuckered out to demonstrate their magnificence in this year's tournament.

We had our chances against UNC, just didn't work out. The cream of the WCC stood toe-to-toe with one of the bluest of the Blue Bloods for 39 minutes, and I'll leave it at that.

Next year's team may not have the gaudy record of 37-2, but they'll reward us with another great season.

Zagdawg
05-22-2017, 08:49 AM
Arizona 2017 schollys all used up-- finally.


http://247sports.com/Bolt/5-star-to-reclassify-52852367

scrooner
05-22-2017, 09:42 AM
Arizona 2017 schollys all used up-- finally.


http://247sports.com/Bolt/5-star-to-reclassify-52852367

Now we've got them right where we want them, bwahahaha.

hooter73
05-22-2017, 01:04 PM
Now we've got them right where we want them, bwahahaha.

lol