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VinnyZag
05-12-2017, 06:44 PM
Bud Withers' latest blog post (http://en.bloguru.com/GloryHounds/298605/on-gonzagas-mount-rushmore) poses the question of who should be on the Mount Rushmore of Gonzaga basketball.


If we’re to chisel out features of the top four people responsible for the phenomenon that is Zag hoops -- including players, coaches, presidents, donors -- I suspect you’ll find more than the average nuance, sub-theme and sidebar that populate other programs. That's because the program came from nothing to within two minutes of a national championship.

He hasn't decided on his list yet, other than that Few has to be there.

I can't decide on the fourth, but three seem like locks to me: Mark Few, John Stockton and Adam Morrison.

ZagAddict
05-12-2017, 09:05 PM
Wow, a great question for thought...

Mark Few is a LOCK for me. I don't think there has ever been a more perfect match between a program and coach. Both are soooo fortunate to have each other. Mark Few is one of the most solid humans I've ever come across.

Dan Fitzgerald was responsible for putting Gonzaga basketball on a successful path and hired the likes of Mark Few, Billy Grier, and Dan Monson. However, there were the recruiting funds violations that put a taint on putting his face on the Mt. Rushmore of Gonzaga Basketball. I still vote YES on Fitz though!

John Stockton is a LOCK for me as well. He has been all you could ever hope for as a GU player, NBA player, GU ambassador, and influence to the growth of GU as an institution.

Ronny Turiaf is another player that checks all the boxes for me, and has been a DREAM ambassador for the program. Ronny's enthusiasm and passion for the game really embodied a "ZAG" for me, and that same enthusiasm and passion has carried over to promoting this program for future recruits.

So here it is, my GU Basketball Mt. Rushmore: Mark Few | Dan Fitzgerald | John Stockton | Ronny Turiaf

As a side note, my 4th spot was so close to going to Mike Roth... an amazing AD and perfect fit for athletics at Gonzaga.

This program has been so blessed. When thinking about this question, I was amazed at how many truly influential people have been involved with the GU program. It really hit home when I was in Phoenix for the Final 4 and saw so many people that played a HUGE roll in getting GU Basketball to this point. It's a story I've been lucky enough to witness as a GU student and fan.

krozman
05-12-2017, 09:55 PM
Few and Stockton are no brainers. The player post 1999 would be the debate obviously. AMMO is the most iconic. PK has the most wins in NCAA. Others embody Gonzaga spirit. I think you should have 2 open spots and challenge the program to fill them.

DixieZag
05-12-2017, 11:06 PM
I don't see how one could leave out Mike Roth. He's the one with the drive and vision to refuse to allow the program to be a one hit wonder, then delivered by putting people outside the lights to do all the required stuff to keep things going in one direction, always.

And Ronny. I'm filing for an environmental impact statement every other week if Ronny's not on it. His pic is right beside the definition of Zag.

bartruff1
05-12-2017, 11:18 PM
Burgess, Stockton, Few, Spitzer.....I would give most honorable awards to the McCarthey Brothers...

jazzdelmar
05-13-2017, 03:06 AM
Burgess, Stockton, Few, Spitzer.....I would give most honorable awards to the McCarthey Brothers...

I agree with this quartet. Ammo was most prominent player but DD prefigured him and achieved nearly as much acclaim.

TravelinZag
05-13-2017, 03:14 AM
Except for the permanency, or perhaps because of it, Mt. Rushmore is an inappropriate icon for the continuing excellence of Gonzaga basketball, and four is too limited a number. Certainly, the size of the group should be smaller than the number of names on "rings of honor" in various stadia, but room for rare additions should be accommodated unless one believes the era has ended. The purpose of any such honor needs to be carefully defined. For example, if the focus is the entire history of Gonzaga basketball, than a few early great players must be included. Though their careers and records were exceptional, they are disconnected from and not germane to the emergence of GU as a national basketball power. Ultimately, the majority of those honored should be players, but the initial core need not be. Absent Mark Few, the reason for such extraordinary recognition would not exist, and perhaps the honor should not only include him but bear his name. Mike Roth must be a part of the initial group. Stockton and Morrison also belong. Shem and Ronny probably will be there, but suggest a five (ten?) year waiting period (for perspective) should apply for players. However, the initial group must acknowledge one other factor -- the fans, led by, but not restricted to the Kennel so not to exclude a widespread and growing national (international) base.

As potential nominees for consideration as future additions, I would include the Women's Basketball program, some exceptional financial backers, the designers and builders of the MAC, carefully selected players with contributions to the Zag family continued beyond their playing days, other coaches whose contributions were essential to making GU basketball what it has become. Three more thoughts. First, I lack the sufficient knowledge of the transgressions of the Fitzgerald era to judge whether or not they should be disqualifying. I note, however, that the lives, careers, beliefs and statements of the four men depicted on Rushmore were not free from taint, if not as great as their achievements. Second, additions should be restricted to not more than one per year, and not every year, if the honor is not to be diluted. Rings of honor, jersey number retirements and other alternative recognitions (halls of fame) exists or can be created. Finally, if the honor is not named for Coach Few, perhaps its suggester, long-time Zag chronicler, admirer and (yes) fan Bud Withers belongs there.

Wow! I can hardly wait for the numerous nominees to follow in this thread, and I fervently hope that debates about the merits of inclusion will respect that any mentioned deserve consideration and their proposers deserve respect. This should truly be a thread for celebration and uplifting discussion which rises above the negativity which slides into other threads. I am confident the moderators will agree, and gently enforce in the unlikely occurrence that incivility intrudes the discussion. Thanks, Bud, and VinnyZag, for getting us started! What a timely antidote for a season we didn't want to end yet did so about 100 seconds too soon!

Go Zags

Zagger
05-13-2017, 05:34 AM
Zags need a bigger mountain.

gueastcoast
05-13-2017, 07:24 AM
Fitz, Few, Spitzer, Magnuson.

bartruff1
05-13-2017, 07:42 AM
Harry Magnuson....??? Interesting, without Harry there might not be a Gonzaga...

FuManShoes
05-13-2017, 07:51 AM
Out of the box pick: Travis Kinght. Who did more to redefine the mid-career redshirt from a demotion to a reinvention? Who did more to help Zag recruits who weren't naturally athletic? Who did more to rehab Karno?

Reborn
05-13-2017, 08:31 AM
I believe that Hank Anderson should be included in this discussion. He was head coach at GU from 1951 to 1972, 21 years. He's the Coach who brought Gonzaga into Division I basketball in 1958. He laid the foundation to the wonderful years that followed. His 1966 team was in the top 25 I believe in the AP poll, but at that time the NCAA Tournament consisted of only 16 teams. But this was the 1st ranked D-1 basketball team at Gonzaga. Also his 21 year tenure at Gonzaga I would think is the longest held by any coach. Gary Lechman, who was the center on that team, averaged 23 points per game in the 1966-67 season. I believe he was also an All-American.

I'm not saying they belong on Mt Rushmore but should be in the discussion. These two men are too often overlooked for their contribution to Gonzaga men's basketball.

The Mt Rushmore award, imo should go to the coach and players who are the most recognized by the entire country. When travelers drive past Mt Gonzaga on their way to their destination they will recognize the faces. I believe the most recognized face would be the face of Adam Morrison. His long hair and especially his "stash" helped make him a legion at Gonzaga. Adam Morrison is without a doubt in my mind the biggest and brightest star in Gonzaga basketball history. Roney Turiof, who is often called the ambassador for GU basketball should be one of the four too. His braids were as popular as Morrison's long hair and stash. I believe Americans would recognize his face. Mark Few would certainly be there as would John Stockton. Players who must be considered are Shemmick Karnowski. This player may have the most recognized face since Adam Morrison. His beard may have been more popular than Mt Karno. He will certainly be a legend at Gonzaga U. Dan Dickau was the only other first team All-American besides Adam Morrison. Nigel Williams-Goss will possibly be a legend one day also, but he didn't make my final 4 because he only played one year at Gonzaga. In time, he will be become a legend, and possibly 20 years from now, as people look back, his name may be in the final 4. He did lead the Zags to their first Fianal 4, and the team that played in the National Championship game. Had he not twisted his ankle with two minutes to play the Zags may have won their first National Championship.

Nice thread. Thanks VinnyZag

GoZags
05-13-2017, 09:29 AM
El Voce, BobZag, Angelo and BasketballZag make my Mount Rushmore (oops. We're not talking about Guboards/Gunation)

Edited to add my "real" Mount Rushmore is Few, Burgess, Stockton and TBD (the Mountain wouldn't be carved all at once).

tyra
05-13-2017, 10:50 AM
Frank Burgess. Not a tough call.

gonzagafan62
05-13-2017, 11:12 AM
Roth, Stockton, Few, Burgess is the right call

maynard g krebs
05-13-2017, 12:22 PM
Since this is interesting, but all subjective opinion- mine is that such a thing should be reserved for players and coaches, i.e. those directly and actively involved in basketball. Admins and donors get a plaque next to the monument.

Mine:

Few
Stockton
Morrison
can't decide on the fourth between Santangelo, Calvary, Dickau, Turiaf.

I left out Burgess because of the lack of direct connection w/ the current era, in which JS has played a major part.

sittingon50
05-13-2017, 01:50 PM
[QUOTE=maynard g krebs;

I left out Burgess because of the lack of direct connection w/ the current era, in which JS has played a major part.[/QUOTE]

But Maynard, there's a bigger spread between Geo. Washington & Teddy R. than there is between Burgess & the current crop!

75Zag
05-13-2017, 01:58 PM
Fitz is the father of GU BB in the current era. Without him there would be no Few, no K2 Arena, and we would probably still be chasing St. Marys and Santa Clara for the automatic bid.

Go Bulldogs!

SunDevilGolfZag
05-13-2017, 02:02 PM
Fitz is the father of GU BB in the current era. Without him there would be no Few, no K2 Arena, and we would probably still be chasing St. Marys and Santa Clara for the automatic bid.

Go Bulldogs!
+1. The vision that Fitz had is way under appreciated

Ekrub
05-13-2017, 03:03 PM
Few, Stockton, Morrison, Heister

ZagsGoZags
05-13-2017, 04:51 PM
John Stockton, Travis Davis, Mark Few, Tommy Lloyd

ProVeeZag
05-13-2017, 10:58 PM
Few, Stockton, Morrison, Heister

"Ain't no mountain high enough". Also, and this bears repeating: Is that you Mrs. Heister?

Ekrub, thanks for keeping this topic "lighthearted".

My 4 faces on Mt GUshmore: Few - Ammo - Turiaf - Stockton

CdAZagFan
05-14-2017, 07:42 AM
John Stockton, Travis Davis, Mark Few, Tommy Lloyd

Love the addition of Tommy Lloyd...

509er
05-14-2017, 09:17 AM
Bud Withers' latest blog post (http://en.bloguru.com/GloryHounds/298605/on-gonzagas-mount-rushmore) poses the question of who should be on the Mount Rushmore of Gonzaga basketball.



He hasn't decided on his list yet, other than that Few has to be there.

I can't decide on the fourth, but three seem like locks to me: Mark Few, John Stockton and Adam Morrison.

I realize this is going to be considered heresy but if Mt Rushmore is to consist of those responsible for the program being what it is today I don't think Stockton makes my list. Greatest Zag player ever, but not in the top 4 of those who had the most influence to the programs current run. I'd go with Fitz, Few, Adam M and probably DD. DD kept the early streaks alive and Ammo took them from a program that was having a hard time getting past the first weekend into a program people started following outside March Madness. Roth gets an Honorable mention. The 6000 seat Kennel was genius along with many other strategic home runs.

Reborn
05-14-2017, 11:42 AM
Love the addition of Tommy Lloyd...

I thought hard about Tommy Lloyd also for his contribution of taking the basketball program overseas and bringing in some of our best Zags ever. One hell of a recruiter. When viewing the HBO special on the Zags, last year, it become obvious to me how great of a coach Tommy is. He has a lot of input to what happens both in practice and in games.

webspinnre
05-14-2017, 12:25 PM
John Stockton, Travis Davis, Mark Few, Tommy Lloyd

Travis Knight?

sittingon50
05-14-2017, 01:14 PM
Travis Knight?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_Davis

Early Cali. recruit.

MDABE80
05-14-2017, 01:50 PM
How about two divisions pre 1990 and
Post 1990....something like that? It's obvious we have too many characters . Hank Anderson
and Frank Burgess are too mportant to leave out.

bartruff1
05-14-2017, 02:26 PM
Heck it doesn't mean anything, after all it is just a matter of opinion....I mean everyone makes mistakes....what idiot would put Teddy up there with Lincoln, Washington and Jefferson ??? :D

maynard g krebs
05-14-2017, 02:36 PM
I realize this is going to be considered heresy but if Mt Rushmore is to consist of those responsible for the program being what it is today I don't think Stockton makes my list. Greatest Zag player ever, but not in the top 4 of those who had the most influence to the programs current run. I'd go with Fitz, Few, Adam M and probably DD. DD kept the early streaks alive and Ammo took them from a program that was having a hard time getting past the first weekend into a program people started following outside March Madness. Roth gets an Honorable mention. The 6000 seat Kennel was genius along with many other strategic home runs.

I included JS in mine because it's my impression that he's been very involved in the program, working/playing w/ the guards in the offseason. I'd bet that he's also had an effect on recruiting, in that he showed it's possible to become an NBA superstar after playing at GU.

roxdoc
05-14-2017, 04:29 PM
Don't forget Monson. He pretty much started the idea of anybody, any time any where. Really upped the anti for competition. Had the first and only E8 for many years.

krozman
05-14-2017, 06:50 PM
Monson and Fitz may have started it, but you don't put someone on the mountain for starting something. You put them on for maintaining it and dominating in that category on a level never before seen in Gonzaga history. Mark Few has the coaching category and nobody else belongs there.

Frank Burgess may have some validity in his era so I get the choice. My only knock is that while he was an outstanding player, he didn't spawn any era of college basketball i'm aware of that helped Gonzaga like it has in the Modern era. The players that started the 1998 era and beyond transformed the team on the conference and national landscape, and the university as well. The problem is picking one of them because you can start with Santangelo and talk about how each successive successful player allowed us to recruit players that end up where we are today. If Frank B. did the same thing for Gonzaga in his day, I'm just unaware of that transformation.

Fun offseason discussion.

ProVeeZag
05-14-2017, 09:54 PM
Don't forget Monson. He pretty much started the idea of anybody, any time any where. Really upped the anti for competition. Had the first and only E8 for many years.

Don Monson is much too big of a stretch in this discussion. He does not have the necessary body of work. His voluntary departure to Minnesota opened the door for the eventual National Coach of the Year, Mark Few. And while I'm grateful to Mons for that, it's hardly Rushmore-worthy.

zagzilla
05-16-2017, 12:06 PM
Few, Stockton, Morrison, Vandersloot

sittingon50
05-16-2017, 01:20 PM
You bring up an interesting point with Sloot, zilla.

Once and Future Zag
05-16-2017, 03:30 PM
Few, Stockton, Morrison, Vandersloot

+1

Cannot leave out the (arguably) best women's College PG of all time.

maynard g krebs
05-16-2017, 06:36 PM
Few, Stockton, Morrison, Vandersloot

Great call.

23dpg
05-16-2017, 07:09 PM
I also thought of Vandersloot, but the article clearly states Gonzaga men's Mt Rushmore. It's also clear that Withers is thinking strictly in terms of relevance to Gonzaga basketball, not afterwards. Hence no Stockton for him.

SunDevilGolfZag
05-16-2017, 07:25 PM
Stockton was good enough to be under the media radar and get drafted in the first round. He was way more than good in college. Would have been a star on any of our 1999 and later teams. Those who probably never saw him play as a Zag and want to discount him in a mythical Mt. Rushmore discussion are truly clueless.

tyra
05-17-2017, 01:02 AM
Ooh, Vandersloot! Great call. Name a single better passer in GU history other than JS. She was simply amazing.

509er
05-17-2017, 05:32 AM
Stockton was good enough to be under the media radar and get drafted in the first round. He was way more than good in college. Would have been a star on any of our 1999 and later teams. Those who probably never saw him play as a Zag and want to discount him in a mythical Mt. Rushmore discussion are truly clueless.

The mythical Mt Rushmore criteria was for those responsible for the Zags being what they are today, not whether or not Stockton is a hall of famer. Did Matt Santangelo go to GU bc of Stockton, maybe? Has he donated loads of money? Don't know but $ is not an issue for GU hoops. To me it's a valid argument that guys like Ronny Turiaf or Even Fitz have had more of a bearing on the current run then Stockton. Greatest zag player ever, yes, but you need to reread Withers article for context so no im not clueless, just opinionated and I saw Stockton play many a game including HS and at the old Kennel (or was it Kennedy Pavilion then?).

bartruff1
05-17-2017, 07:29 AM
Well for what it is worth, Bud's Rushmore was about men's basketball, as deserving as she is , Vandersloot would not be eligible ....

soccerdud
05-17-2017, 08:22 AM
few, stockton, karno, vandersloot. morrison if vandersloot ineligible. imo.

dd and burgess would be next in line.

willandi
05-17-2017, 09:02 AM
What about Rem???

Mojo13
05-17-2017, 02:59 PM
Clearly it would be Olynyk, Pangos, Sacre and Wiltjer.

But maybe only to us Canadians.

Radbooks
05-18-2017, 05:44 PM
Here is what Bud came up with:

The envelope, please: Gonzaga's Mount Rushmore. (http://en.bloguru.com/GloryHounds/298990/the-envelope-please-gonzagas-mount)

Mark Few
Tommy Lloyd
Adam Morrison

and, click on the link for the last one! :)

Rangerzag
05-18-2017, 08:23 PM
We need a bigger mountain!

krozman
05-18-2017, 08:58 PM
he basically avoided making hard decisions by renaming it "the top 4 who shaped the post 1999 era." I think this forum thread has better insight than the article.

sittingon50
05-18-2017, 10:36 PM
Karno's name was hardly mentioned by anyone in this thread. Think I might consider that a hard decision.

Mantua
05-19-2017, 10:18 PM
What about Rem???

Exactly! Time will tell.

Four faces is too limiting for me. I can't bear to leave deserving souls off of the list.

Mantua
05-19-2017, 10:25 PM
Don't forget Monson. He pretty much started the idea of anybody, any time any where. Really upped the anti for competition. Had the first and only E8 for many years.


I mean the following question in the best light:

Did Monson make a great contribution by leaving?



It's an unanswerable question. It's hard to imagine the steady success of Gonzaga Basketball without Mark Few's leadership.

FroZAG
05-20-2017, 05:46 PM
For me....
I'll go with all players.
And only players I've seen due to being in my mid-30s.

Gonzaga Mount Rushmore:

John Stockton
Ronnie Turiaf
Adam Morrison
P. Karnowski

Slightly adherent to chronology, longevity, and clout.

This leaves out Burgess, a couple dozen more players, Few, Lloyd, and Travis Knight.

A guy who is in the top 10 that I wish could be on the list is Jeremy Pargo. I believe he had some of the biggest plays and shots in some of our largest, loudest wins. And maybe the best Pro (all leagues) career any guys had?? But I am unsure of this...

Also I just have to say.
Most underrated - JP Batista
(grossly underrated)

And unrelated.....but, while I'm typing....
Without Eric McClellan's clutch play late senior year, we would have lost the NCAA Tourney streak. And his growth, coming here and while at Gonzaga is my favorite story of any Zag.