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Zagger
05-09-2017, 02:24 AM
So, the season's over .... WOW! What a season! And, WOW again! Thanks guys & coach!

So, the season's over .... On to next season ..... But wait, we're gonna be without Shemmick, Rem and Jordan .... and a few others are leaving too: Nigel, ZC, Alberts, Edwards .... did I forget someone? That's 7 moving on from the current roster @ http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/gonz-m-baskbl-mtt.html

OK, things change. There are 17 on the roster so 10 are sticking around: Triano, Beach, Melson, Perkins, Tillie, Williams, Hachimura, Jones and a couple of slackers (wink, wink) who've yet to venture out into a game: Norvell and Larsen. More guys must be coming in, right?

Well, I've heard a bit about the Wade kid. And, I've heard about Kispert too. Then there was some news about another Frenchie coming .... with a name like a stuttering Canadian ... AY-AY-I.

So, unless I'm missing something (which is more likely than not) we've got 7 going and 3 coming. 7-3=4. So, if we're shooting to keep the roster at 17 we've got 4 more guys coming in before school starts (or whenever a year's roster is considered a year's roster). I suppose cloning takes too long. It'd sure be nice to find 4 guys a lot like the one's who are moving on! Life moves on though. I sure like the 10 we still have and hope no more bolt! I've also heard really nice stuff about Wade, Kispert and Ayayi along with Norvell and Larsen. Those 5 alone could likely kick all other WCC butt all by themselves! We know Melson, Perkins, Williams, Tillie and Rui could as well! Heck, 4 more coming in (or whatever number the count is) it looks like it's going to be a sweet 2017-2018 already! More joining the fray is simply going to make my head spin! I so can't wait to see who's all at Kraziness In The Kennel this Fall! Then to watch how the gang does for 30+ games. I'll tell ya ..... life is pretty sweet being a Zags fan!

End of rant :)

hooter73
05-09-2017, 05:35 AM
We don't see gu bank scholarships very often because t I won't be surprised to only see one, maybe two transfers, one going to Jones, and the 4th left open for a 2018 player.

TravelinZag
05-09-2017, 05:36 AM
No grad transfer remaining can replace Shem or Collins. Most other transfers would have to sit for a year. JCs don't have a lot to offer (and GU's experience with them less than great, for the most part). Great bigs seldom shine as frosh (that's why GU's development program and history should help), but don't see any takers. Probably the only way (domestic players) GU gets some great talents is from de-commits, and we all know what the other side of that stick feels and smells like. Might make us winners, but wouldn't make us proud and doesn't say much for the player's word or character. Reduced to hoping and praying for a miracle import or resigning myself to the loss of an opportunity, because the marketing "shelf- and half-lives" of a national championship game are short. (I.E., quick! who went to the final four but did not win the championship three years ago? Four? Six?)

Loved the great season, but on the verge of lowering expectations bar for next season, and already cancelled hotel reservations for San Antonio. Zags will win, will go to the dance (big deal), and should at least make the second weekend (because there are not 32 great teams any year) and maybe that should be enough. There was a time when it would have been for Zag fans. However, Seattle U went to the final four, and San Francisco won national championships, and how has that turned out for them since? Not just the teams, the schools. What Coach Few and his coaches and players have done for the university has repaid its investment many times over. Also for Spokane, although it invested nothing. Ditto for GU's Final Four debaters and EWU's football program -- great returns for the school; free ride for the "Inland Empire." Disappointed, and not bitter, just real. Don't want to see it ever end.

As for San Antonio, will and should see it sometime, and perhaps better without tournament hoopla. Over a century ago, Mark Twain said there were only four unique American cities, and so many of his observations remain true today. About the other cities? Well, even today, New York, San Francisco and New Orleans simply feel different and in a separate class.

TexasZagFan
05-09-2017, 05:58 AM
San Antonio's a great place to visit, been there numerous times. If the Zags catch lightning again, there are plenty of hotels in the area.

Reborn
05-09-2017, 11:23 AM
Nice thread Zagger. A very good summary. I think that the most important people coming back are Mark Few and his staff. Mark Few just got Coach of the Year in NCAA Basketball. His assistants must be included in that award. I think these 4 guys know what they're doing and have a history of being able to put good teams on the court. The Zags will return Perkins, Williams, Melson and Tillie, four guys who played big roles on a team who made it to the National Championship game. That's a lot of experience returning, imo. Two of these guys were starters, and I would include Melson as a starter because he was often on the floor at the end of the game. Any time you have three players who were starters on a team that made it as far as Gonzaga did last year, you're going to have a pretty darn good team. IMO Tillie will be as good as or even better than Collins was last year. He will definitely play a bigger role for the team than Collins did. Larson will be a very good back up center, and Norvel be a very good back up for the three guards. He will have a role very similar to Melson's this year. I'm on the bus with those fans who are expecting another real good year. I'm not predicting another Final Four appearance, but then again I never predicted it last year either....Let's wait and see how Few uses the remaining 4 schollies.

Go Zags!!!

tyra
05-09-2017, 12:05 PM
"Norvel be a very good back up for the three guards." I think "Norvel" (sic) starts and is no "back up".

maynard g krebs
05-09-2017, 01:28 PM
Norvel be a very good back up for the three guards.



Perkins, Melson and ? If not Norvell, the third has to be Wade, Ayayi, Kispert or Rui unless I'm forgetting someone. I think Norvell starts, unless it's Kispert.

zagsfanforlife
05-09-2017, 07:51 PM
A final four has made me greedy. I wish we didnt have the following year be a development year. This year was a surprise, but i wasnt shocked that team made the final four. They had experience and pros on their roster. This next years team has talent but sooo many unknowns and not a ton of experience. I think most posters are expecting a good year, another big dance appearance, but anything past a sweet 16 would be a surprise. Maybe Few or Tommy have a couple rabbits in their hats, but the realist in me says this offseason so far has been a dissapointment. Lost a guy who i thought could contribute in Alberts, got a developmental kid in ayayi, and had an AA and a lottery pick depart early. Grad transfers who could have helped opted to go somewhere else, and the more i read it seems as if Jeter is not coming to us.

That iron is cooling down....

TexasZagFan
05-10-2017, 05:19 AM
A final four has made me greedy. I wish we didnt have the following year be a development year. This year was a surprise, but i wasnt shocked that team made the final four. They had experience and pros on their roster. This next years team has talent but sooo many unknowns and not a ton of experience. I think most posters are expecting a good year, another big dance appearance, but anything past a sweet 16 would be a surprise. Maybe Few or Tommy have a couple rabbits in their hats, but the realist in me says this offseason so far has been a dissapointment. Lost a guy who i thought could contribute in Alberts, got a developmental kid in ayayi, and had an AA and a lottery pick depart early. Grad transfers who could have helped opted to go somewhere else, and the more i read it seems as if Jeter is not coming to us.

That iron is cooling down....

When you focus on the journey, and not the destination, greed doesn't enter the picture. At least, that's the way it's worked out for me. My son (now 15 and a real PITA), asked me on the drive home from Wichita, "why do we always seem to go to games where we lose?"

It gave me the opportunity to reorient his approach to the journey vs. the destination. For every win in Stillwater or Nashville, there were tough losses in Wichita, Houston, SMU, et al. Our perspective is different than those with season tickets in the Kennel. When you attend a home game, there's an expectation of victory...which has been proven out. Wins on the road are tougher to come by, and the opponents are much tougher than what we see on the road in conference.

For me, it's not just the games. It's the opportunity to spend time with family and friends, and there's always something great to remember from each trip, whether it be nearly getting one's rear kicked by a burly Wyoming lad at the Pit, getting my son's picture with Kelly, Elias, Pangos, and Sam and GBJ, or seeing my grandson at half court at Bridgestone Arena. That's the "journey" known as Zag basketball. It will continue this summer, assuming the advanced basketball camp hasn't sold out already.

Call me crazy, but the Zagmobile's getting fired up for the 1900 mile drive to Spokane. I can't think of a better way to escape the North Texas heat for a couple weeks by driving to the Inland Empire. While I'm reconnecting with the campus, Big D's uncle will be honing his skills ahead of JV tryouts in the fall.

Reborn
05-10-2017, 07:08 AM
"Norvel be a very good back up for the three guards." I think "Norvel" (sic) starts and is no "back up".

I think you could be right. And that would move Wade and Kispert coming in off the bench. Our bench could be just as strong this year.

hooter73
05-10-2017, 08:24 AM
... My son (now 15 and a real PITA)... Lol, I like you.

Exactly the way I look at it. We could lose every game and I'd still be a Zag fan because of the culture and the standards they set and hold. I will never be a WSU fan who let their players play the very next game after arrests and drugs and whatnot. I cant respect that. Pulling your top player for the rest of the year because he made a bone head mistake, then helping him get back to it the next year, that is a community I respect.

And yes, I wont be surprised at all to see Norvell start with Rui, Wade, Kispert and Larsen off the bench. Thats a dang strong bench. As long as Williams and Tillie can tandem up down low, we can do with no other incoming transfers, but I think we all know that one injury, flu bug or foul trouble will show how thin we are for big men.

Bogozags
05-10-2017, 08:29 AM
This could be the first year in 8-9 years where we may not have a "strong" post presence...that's not saying Larsen can't be that guy but with Sacre, KO, PK and DS, we have been pretty fortunate to have a post defender/scorer. As much as I like JWIII and Tillie, those two are not post players...

Time will tell how we adjust this coming season and am hoping we are able to solicit a graduate transfer big to come play for us...

TexasZagFan
05-10-2017, 08:40 AM
Lol, I like you.

Exactly the way I look at it. We could lose every game and I'd still be a Zag fan because of the culture and the standards they set and hold. I will never be a WSU fan who let their players play the very next game after arrests and drugs and whatnot. I cant respect that. Pulling your top player for the rest of the year because he made a bone head mistake, then helping him get back to it the next year, that is a community I respect.

And yes, I wont be surprised at all to see Norvell start with Rui, Wade, Kispert and Larsen off the bench. Thats a dang strong bench. As long as Williams and Tillie can tandem up down low, we can do with no other incoming transfers, but I think we all know that one injury, flu bug or foul trouble will show how thin we are for big men.

Not that I'm wishing ill health on SMC, but they've been remarkably injury free the past two years, a rarity.

DixieZag
05-10-2017, 10:27 AM
This could be the first year in 8-9 years where we may not have a "strong" post presence...that's not saying Larsen can't be that guy but with Sacre, KO, PK and DS, we have been pretty fortunate to have a post defender/scorer. As much as I like JWIII and Tillie, those two are not post players...

Time will tell how we adjust this coming season and am hoping we are able to solicit a graduate transfer big to come play for us...

That is an excellent point. We have been very spoiled in that 95% of most college teams didn't have the strength we did with bigs. It would mean we'd have to learn to play differently, evolve. Hope to see it, if needed.

Reborn
05-10-2017, 10:28 AM
This could be the first year in 8-9 years where we may not have a "strong" post presence...that's not saying Larsen can't be that guy but with Sacre, KO, PK and DS, we have been pretty fortunate to have a post defender/scorer. As much as I like JWIII and Tillie, those two are not post players...

Time will tell how we adjust this coming season and am hoping we are able to solicit a graduate transfer big to come play for us...

I'm sorry but J Williams IS a post player and may have been better than Karnowski, especially in big games. And Tillie is also a post player, mostly playing the high post. Remember, high post players are also post players. And I'm sorry, but in my opinion to say we have no post presence is about as rediiculous of a statement I've heard in a long time. If you can remember J Williams had a much better hook than Karno. And at times he was just unstoppable. Williams and Tillie, imo will be the two best shot blockers in the WCC. The first I thought that the Zags could make it to the Final Four this year was after the game with Saint Mary's when Williams absolutely destroyed St Mary's two post players. He was unstoppable that night, and then went to to have many great games. Tillie also showed in many games that he is a very talented and tough player. Let's remember that he broke his hand and that reduced his playing time, but he still managed to seal one of the really big wins in the NCAA tournament by making two freethrows. I know that many of you don't agree with my assessment, but I also know that some do......I am NOT worried about next year at all.

Go Zags!!!

TexasZagFan
05-10-2017, 10:39 AM
I'm sorry but J Williams IS a post player and may have been better than Karnowski, especially in big games. And Tillie is also a post player, mostly playing the high post. Remember, high post players are also post players. And I'm sorry, but in my opinion to say we have no post presence is about as rediiculous of a statement I've heard in a long time. If you can remember J Williams had a much better hook than Karno. And at times he was just unstoppable. Williams and Tillie, imo will be the two best shot blockers in the WCC. The first I thought that the Zags could make it to the Final Four this year was after the game with Saint Mary's when Williams absolutely destroyed St Mary's two post players. He was unstoppable that night, and then went to to have many great games. Tillie also showed in many games that he is a very talented and tough player. Let's remember that he broke his hand and that reduced his playing time, but he still managed to seal one of the really big wins in the NCAA tournament by making two freethrows. I know that many of you don't agree with my assessment, but I also know that some do......I am NOT worried about next year at all.

Go Zags!!!

You SHOULD be worried, if only because I completely agree with your assessment. :lmao:

Reborn
05-10-2017, 01:49 PM
:lmao:

good one.....got a good laugh out of that....

webspinnre
05-10-2017, 02:34 PM
Quick, someone call a meteorologist for a forecast on the temperatures in hell!

hooter73
05-10-2017, 04:46 PM
Williams and tillie were good because they were playing off of low post centers. Karno was never a stat player, but he changed the court. It will be a different situation this year.

Zagger
05-10-2017, 11:28 PM
A commonality in the replies I'm reading (or a thought that is just crossing my mind from reading them) is that Few & coaches make the best out of what they have. As hooter73's saying regarding Mt. K ... not a stat player but changing the court ... Few uses the assets of a player well. We won't see this coming season's team try and play like the 16-17 team. They will play around who they are and/or what the coaches find in them. Different actors and different scripts. Even though Mt. K beat other teams down the court every now and then he wasn't known for his speed. I know little about Larsen but I'm guessing he's more fleet of foot. We know J3 and Tillie can move swiftly. The 17-18 team may capitalize on its overall speed/quickness. With Nigel and Jordan gone it'll open things up a bit for Perkins and Melson to accentuate their styles of play. We may also see a heck of a lot of 3s being put up. Perkins and Melson can shoot them plus Wade and Norvel are supposed to be deadeyes too. My Kispert IQ is low so not sure exactly what he'll bring. We know Rui is going to be exciting. With Hachimura's quick dashes to the basket he'll collapse the court. If he can use those moves to also pass well to a fellow sharpshooting Zag who's now open .....

It's gotta be pretty fun/interesting to be the coaches in building game plans around a changing clientele. Each new Zag that emerges over the next few months will add more paints to the pallet. As Reborn mentions the coaching isn't changing plus it's about as good as it gets - and I'd venture that it is getting better as well. They'll make the most out of the talent they end up with. I felt the 16-17 team had a good synergy going - good teamwork. I hope the Zags can muster the same for 17-18 and feel that they'll have somewhat of a head start with Norvel and Larsen both having been a Zag for a season already - just not in the games. Evidently Nigel and J3 put their redshirt year to good use. It was great to witness how well Jordan meshed as a Zag in a short period of time. It sure seems like he was a Zag for more than just a year! Jordan was kinda of a 'rabbit out of the hat' type of deal. I don't see that being something we'll see again real soon ..... time will tell.

Moving through the roster we have Jones, Triano and Beach too. I do my best not to discount any Zag for what they may contribute during a season and absolutely love seeing a Zag off the bench get the Kennel on their feet. I sure hope these 3 get some great opportunities to shine in 17-18.

Bogozags
05-11-2017, 07:13 AM
Williams and tillie were good because they were playing off of low post centers. Karno was never a stat player, but he changed the court. It will be a different situation this year.

I agree with this assessment.

Williams and Tillie are PF's and we're not recruited to be "C's" or Fives, they may well have to play there but are not the same as Sacre, KO, PK or DS...it will be different this year as we only have Larsen at this point in time...

hooter73
05-11-2017, 10:55 AM
exactly and what made them so good was how much attention the other team had to pay to the centers they were playing with. (dont know if I quite worded it correctly to get that point across in my previous post)

MontanaCoyote
05-11-2017, 01:10 PM
Williams and tillie were good because they were playing off of low post centers. Karno was never a stat player, but he changed the court. It will be a different situation this year.

........."he changed the court." Exactly! It never caught on, but the moniker "The Presence" pretty much says just that. His mere presence changed the court.

Don't know if we'll have anybody next season that can do that, but I'm sensing that we could have an 8 or even 9 player rotation that could have, in aggregate, the same effect. Mix it up; fast ball, change up, circle curve, slider.....keep 'um guessing and off balance. What say?

Zagger
05-11-2017, 05:00 PM
.........Don't know if we'll have anybody next season that can do that, but I'm sensing that we could have an 8 or even 9 player rotation that could have, in aggregate, the same effect. Mix it up; fast ball, change up, circle curve, slider.....keep 'um guessing and off balance. What say?

I'd say with what we have now that sounds very plausible. We're losing some quality guys but they aren't the only quality guys. Everyone who returns has a wealth of experience to bring to 17-18. The team learned a lot this season and confidence will be strong.