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uZiGiZaG
04-18-2017, 01:41 PM
And I believe he will elevate his game to new heights again next year and lead this team back to another FF

Zag_Dad
04-18-2017, 01:58 PM
And I believe he will elevate his game to new heights again next year and lead this team back to another FF

I believe in Perkins and I also believe the coaching staff will land a transfer or two to help at the guard position. What I'm worried about is the front court.

Zags_Fanatic
04-18-2017, 02:06 PM
Perkins was solid in his RS Freshman year. 10pts and 4 assists with a 2:1 A/TO ratio is pretty great for a first year player that is the primary ballhandler. I'm confident that he'll get it done.

former1dog
04-18-2017, 02:23 PM
Perkins, with 7 NCAA wins in 2 seasons, is the most successful starting guard in program history. I have no doubt that he will continue to help lead the Gonzaga Bulldogs to success on the court!

gonzagafan62
04-18-2017, 02:28 PM
I doubt we get to a final four but we can certainly try. Still guys to bring in the team, that's for sure

maynard g krebs
04-18-2017, 02:36 PM
It will be interesting to see how the team adapts to playing with less dominant post play and the addition of three bigger wing players i Rui, Kispert, Norvell. Tillie/JW3 are also quick, athletic bigs that can slash from the perimeter. I expect to see more motion and drive and kick to open shooters as opposed to so much feeding the post and go one on one or kick it out to a shooter if there's a double team. This group will have a lot of versatility in terms of lineups and styles they can play.

I think Perkins is gonna shine next year.

jazzdelmar
04-18-2017, 02:56 PM
Not without a powerful lead guard.

DixieZag
04-18-2017, 03:00 PM
From what video I have seen, Norvelle has a game that's a little like NWG. He's a bit bigger than most PGs, he's not a 3pt sniper, doesn't play above the rim, but he's sneaky on the drive, can put the ball in the basket from all kinds of angles.

Not saying he's enough to be the powerful lead guard that Jazz describes, and it will be his first year in college ball, but in terms of playing style - just from the video I've seen - his game is like Nigel's.

Yes, Perkins will have to take a step up. A gigantic step up.

Zagceo
04-18-2017, 03:04 PM
From what video I have seen, Norvelle has a game that's a little like NWG. He's a bit bigger than most PGs, he's not a 3pt sniper, doesn't play above the rim, but he's sneaky on the drive, can put the ball in the basket from all kinds of angles.

Not saying he's enough to be the powerful lead guard that Jazz describes, and it will be his first year in college ball, but in terms of playing style - just from the video I've seen - his game is like Nigel's.

Yes, Perkins will have to take a step up. A gigantic step up.

really?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwGPF9s9lmQ

MDABE80
04-18-2017, 03:05 PM
Not without a powerful lead guard.

Josh may elevate his game. Hope he does. Oh cheerful me;)
He doesn't know how to run this team. Off guard sure. PG like Nigel is what we need. Hope the boys find one. The results were spectacular this year with a real PG like Nigel. We fall back if Josh becomes the PG. Josh needs some major help to make him better.

DixieZag
04-18-2017, 03:07 PM
really?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwGPF9s9lmQ

I read several times he's not a 3pt star. Sorry to disappoint you.

I've been wrong before, but that's what I read.

Zagdawg
04-18-2017, 03:12 PM
Norvell came into the program as a 3 pt shooter -- he hit 14 of them in the 53 pt game. Watching him last summer the majority of the shots he took were from 3 in scrimmage -- but I wonder how much of that was related to the injury slowing him down. Looking at his older video (Jr year in HS-- he had quite a selection of shots and he was a good distributor also).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIPOix7YX8Q

"Norvell filled in at point guard two years ago after an injury to the starter and “did a really good job,” Smith said. “He can play both positions.”

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/nov/02/gonzaga-men-add-zach-norvell-another-top-100-recru/

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-18-2017, 03:21 PM
From what video I have seen, Norvelle has a game that's a little like NWG. He's a bit bigger than most PGs, he's not a 3pt sniper, doesn't play above the rim, but he's sneaky on the drive, can put the ball in the basket from all kinds of angles.

Not saying he's enough to be the powerful lead guard that Jazz describes, and it will be his first year in college ball, but in terms of playing style - just from the video I've seen - his game is like Nigel's.

Yes, Perkins will have to take a step up. A gigantic step up.

Norvell is a great all around scorer. He isn't a classic "catch and shoot" guy in the Raivio/Rillie mode, but he can hit contested three-pointers as well as any player Gonzaga has ever recruited. He knows how to use the natural motion of the offense and defense to create separation for his shot. He has a beautiful step back jump shot and a quick pull up jumper off the dribble. He uses screens really well. We're going to love watching him play.

Zagger
04-18-2017, 03:34 PM
I'm all in on Perks! We're going to witness some hot BB next season. Zags will be loaded & primed for action come November.

Coach Crazy
04-18-2017, 03:35 PM
I read several times he's not a 3pt star. Sorry to disappoint you.

I've been wrong before, but that's what I read.

It's all good. But whoever has written what you read...probably needs to take a break from basketball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Coach Crazy
04-18-2017, 03:38 PM
Zack is a next level combo guard. He has the ability to do what Zach did, but from the guard spot.


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maynard g krebs
04-18-2017, 03:54 PM
I believe what Milehigh has told us is the truth, i.e. that Few has told Josh it's his team to run next year. Luckily, I believe Few knows what he's doing, despite Jazz and Abes' objections.

I also think that Josh at pg is a better stylistic fit with the incoming guards/wings and Norvell/Rui, and the lack of, arguably two of the top several centers in the country. Not as ball dominant or looking for his own shot as much; with great passing and shooting wings I think this will be a positive.

Time will tell, I guess. Was hoping this thread would stay positive. Coach Crazy has done a great job of detailing the background for some of Josh's struggles. He's been a team guy all the way, including being unselfish enough to welcome NWG for the betterment of the team. It's sad that that fact is lost on some.

Hoopaholic
04-18-2017, 04:23 PM
I believe what Milehigh has told us is the truth, i.e. that Few has told Josh it's his team to run next year. Luckily, I believe Few knows what he's doing, despite Jazz and Abes' objections.

I also think that Josh at pg is a better stylistic fit with the incoming guards/wings and Norvell/Rui, and the lack of, arguably two of the top several centers in the country. Not as ball dominant or looking for his own shot as much; with great passing and shooting wings I think this will be a positive.

Time will tell, I guess. Was hoping this thread would stay positive. Coach Crazy has done a great job of detailing the background for some of Josh's struggles. He's been a team guy all the way, including being unselfish enough to welcome NWG for the betterment of the team. It's sad that that fact is lost on some.

This

Within it dominat back to basket post player we will see spacing action drive and dish which is perkinsnstrength yet can back fill to wing and be a deep threat thereby keeping lanes open for others

Zagceo
04-18-2017, 04:44 PM
Perkins has felt the pain in 3 locker rooms after NCAA games. 2 playing 1 watching.....that will serve as fuel in pushing him in the offseason .....he has the talent and now will have the reins. Josh is a fighter......saw some of it in UNC game...very physical against their bigs in ball screens and rebounding. Gotta Trust Few even if ya don't trust Josh IMO.

SunDevilGolfZag
04-18-2017, 04:50 PM
I believe Perkins will get All American recognition before he leaves Gonzaga. His talent, desire, and dedication to team will get him there IMO

Vanzagger
04-18-2017, 06:29 PM
I'm definitely going with m g k. Hold on to your hats!

zagsfanforlife
04-18-2017, 07:01 PM
Its a nice sentiment to have and love the encouraging words-- but the basketball eyes i have will say i didnt see much this year that gives me confidence he is ready to take the reigns. Maybe it was due to NWG being the man, but way too many costly turnovers at opportune times and very loose ball handling leads me to believe Josh is better as a 2 than a 1.

MDABE80
04-18-2017, 07:20 PM
Nicely put Zagsfanforlife. It's exactly what I see. I'm glad we have a 10-4 or and 8-4 ( his scoring fell off the last 10 games but for 1 game)...............but the dunder handles were outstanding. It's good to have Josh's contributions. Just not the ones like the first 45 secs in the national title game.
I'm glad with Josh. just not a the primary PG. I just don't see Josh as a PG and a big factor when it coms to running the team. The deterioration in the last one third of the season was just so noticeable I'm quite surprised the loyalty of the onlookers is so strong.

Zagricultural
04-18-2017, 07:24 PM
I have been consistently a believer in Josh, and that hasn't changed. What we need is a stud 5.

zagsfanforlife
04-18-2017, 07:27 PM
I have been consistently a believer in Josh, and that hasn't changed. What we need is a stud 5.

Agreed a stud 5 would be nice.. not too many out there right now.

Zagricultural
04-18-2017, 08:30 PM
Agreed a stud 5 would be nice.. not too many out there right now.
It's true, but with how we feature and develop bigs they are crazy not to jump aboard.

CodeCobalt
04-18-2017, 11:01 PM
Perkins is a more than capable player, but he seems to struggle in leadership roles? He feels the weight of the world on his shoulders and it negatively affects his gameplay. As if he's thinking more about what this play means rather than just executing the play.

Good news is that he's more than capable of executing.

Random tangent, I'm gonna miss seeing Tillie and Collins playing together. The big to big assist and huge jam in the final four!? EPIC!

BobZag
04-19-2017, 08:02 AM
And I believe he will elevate his game to new heights again next year and lead this team back to another FF

Hope so. He wasn't ready for the 2nd half of the NC game to begin.

Ezag
04-19-2017, 08:10 AM
Perkins may be ready, may not. Only time will tell. I still think we need that fearless offensive juggernaut NWG type guard who is not afraid to take the big shot and take over games if necessary. I just don't see that in Perk or Melson at this point.

TexasZagFan
04-19-2017, 08:31 AM
Perkins may be ready, may not. Only time will tell. I still think we need that fearless offensive juggernaut NWG type guard who is not afraid to take the big shot and take over games if necessary. I just don't see that in Perk or Melson at this point.

IMO, Silas could lead the nation in scoring next year. His primary role the past two years was sixth man: energy and defense off the bench. If he starts next year, his responsibilities will change. He'll have more opportunities to score playing 32+ minutes a game.

JAGzag
04-19-2017, 08:44 AM
Perkins is a more than capable player, but he seems to struggle in leadership roles? He feels the weight of the world on his shoulders and it negatively affects his gameplay. As if he's thinking more about what this play means rather than just executing the play.

Good news is that he's more than capable of executing.

Random tangent, I'm gonna miss seeing Tillie and Collins playing together. The big to big assist and huge jam in the final four!? EPIC!

Notwithstanding those who cite his A/TO ratio on why he's elite, I agree he's not/won't be the same quality player without NWG. I just trusted Goss's decisions with the ball 100% and while I think Perkins is a very good player, don't think he's the type that thrives on pressure when he's running the show.

MDABE80
04-19-2017, 08:46 AM
We could go back and forth on Josh as a PG for the next 6 months or more. Some think he's "sliced bread" while others think we need a Nigel for the team to excel. Nothing will be settled. Josh had a decent year but without Nigel, I doubt things would be so rosy for him. We do not have a "Nigel" coming up this year. We'll have to wait and see. This next year, with loss of 4 key guy and 50 pts right out of the chute, I doubt things will be anything like this past year. 2 big surprise departures won't help.

I honestly thought we might get back to the FF next year. I would be shocked if that happens now that the 4 are gone. Few's a magician as we know. But when the rabbits are gone, it'll be much harder to pull em out of your hat. Let's see how this plays out. Brace yourself though. When a weak link ( from the starters this past year) is expected to run the team, I smell trouble ahead. Let's hope Few and staff figure it out.

EEzag
04-19-2017, 09:08 AM
We could go back and forth on Josh as a PG for the next 6 months or more. Some think he's "sliced bread" while others think we need a Nigel for the team to excel. Nothing will be settled. Josh had a decent year but without Nigel, I doubt things would be so rosy for him. We do not have a "Nigel" coming up this year. We'll have to wait and see. This next year, with loss of 4 key guy and 50 pts right out of the chute, I doubt things will be anything like this past year. 2 big surprise departures won't help.

I honestly thought we might get back to the FF next year. I would be shocked if that happens now that the 4 are gone. Few's a magician as we know. But when the rabbits are gone, it'll be much harder to pull em out of your hat. Let's see how this plays out. Brace yourself though. When a weak link ( from the starters this past year) is expected to run the team, I smell trouble ahead. Let's hope Few and staff figure it out.

So we play small and bring in Larsen based on need. Honestly that's where the game is going anyways with the "freedom of movement" push. Give me a Burton from Iowa State any day of the week. Nice to have a rim protector I'll grant you, and hopefully Larsen goes there. ZN, RH (hopefully), K-Till, JP, J3. Curious to see J-Wade and ZN on D. We only need Larsen to slow down St Mary's big and Mika if he doesn't go pro.

seacatfan
04-19-2017, 09:41 AM
IMO, Silas could lead the nation in scoring next year. His primary role the past two years was sixth man: energy and defense off the bench. If he starts next year, his responsibilities will change. He'll have more opportunities to score playing 32+ minutes a game.

That's a bold prediction. He's never even averaged double figures. I could see his production increasing significantly, but leading the nation? Probably gotta figure close to 25 ppg or so to do that. Zags have had much more gifted scorers than Melson not manage that. They've been mostly about balanced scoring throughout Few's tenure. Only a couple exceptions like Ammo's Jr. year and the year Wiltjer and Sabonis did most of the scoring.

TexasZagFan
04-19-2017, 09:56 AM
That's a bold prediction. He's never even averaged double figures. I could see his production increasing significantly, but leading the nation? Probably gotta figure close to 25 ppg or so to do that. Zags have had much more gifted scorers than Melson not manage that. They've been mostly about balanced scoring throughout Few's tenure. Only a couple exceptions like Ammo's Jr. year and the year Wiltjer and Sabonis did most of the scoring.

What's wrong with being bold? Heck, I can see it now: Silas and Josh will be the two most often criticized players on the Board next season. Josh has always gotten it, and Silas was getting it until he started hitting 45% of his 3's. Silas is a good FT shooter, and he's likely to get many more FT's next year. My prediction's a long-shot, just like my prediction that in Nov 2015 that the Zags wouldn't lose their tenth game until Dec 2017...that was about a week before Karno went down. Came close, though...that 10th loss came against UNC a couple of weeks ago.

gueastcoast
04-19-2017, 10:34 AM
It's not a perfect comp, but think back to two years ago. Pangos and Bell had just graduated, we had some returning backcourt guys but nobody with real "in the spotlight" experience. That's when McClellan stepped up and with him we made a run through the WCC tourney and on to the Sweet Sixteen. Eric was no Nigel, but he got the job done with maturity and confidence. That's what I think Josh can achieve next year.

hooter73
04-19-2017, 11:26 AM
Perkins may be ready, may not. Only time will tell. I still think we need that fearless offensive juggernaut NWG type guard who is not afraid to take the big shot and take over games if necessary. I just don't see that in Perk or Melson at this point.

No one wants to hear it but Wade is of that NWG mold. I expect him to start and lead before melson becomes a team, conference or any other type of leading scorer.

gonstu
04-19-2017, 11:29 AM
Not without a powerful lead guard.

When I saw the thread title, prior to clicking on it - I wondered how long into the thread there'd be a comment like this from you lol - thanks for not disappointing!

cggonzaga
04-19-2017, 11:38 AM
Him and Abe can't help themselves.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 12:04 PM
When I saw the thread title, prior to clicking on it - I wondered how long into the thread there'd be a comment like this from you lol - thanks for not disappointing!

You're welcome. Beach is great today. Just came back. No more spring breakers.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 12:05 PM
Him and Abe can't help themselves.

Truth hurts.

23dpg
04-19-2017, 12:13 PM
You can add me to the list of people who don't think Josh is a true point guard. I, like Abe and Jazz, seem to think that he's shown to be more of a combo guard. There is no offense meant in this statement, just the way I see his game.
He is also the best option to run the next year's team at this point. (I have no idea about Wade)

MDABE80
04-19-2017, 12:16 PM
One look and you just know.............doesn't take much. Just watch and learn. He cannot do the job let alone keep focused. Nothing personal mind you. Good kid. Can't run this team in this system. Nigel was more than capable as the PG. We need that type of kid at the PG slot to make the victories come. Not so much in WCC but outside of that, gird your loins.

maynard g krebs
04-19-2017, 12:16 PM
he's not/won't be the same quality player without NWG.

Issue w/ that is that the last 27 games of his fr year, he was better without NWG than he was as a soph with him. Including those dominant wins v Seton Hall and Utah.

Last year he adapted to playing out of position. We've beaten this horse to death now; might as well wait till November to see who's right. Truce, everyone? It's hard not to respond when a player you like is being bashed w/o balance for his positive accomplishments. The two to's to start the second half, for example, didn't decide the UNC game, and it's comical to me that the bashers discount the fact that his 13 first half points were the reason for the halftime lead.

Hoopaholic
04-19-2017, 12:18 PM
One look and you just know.............doesn't take much. Just watch and learn. He cannot do the job let alone keep focused. Nothing personal mind you. Good kid. Can't run this team in this system. Nigel was more than capable as the PG. We need that type of kid at the PG slot to make the victories come. Not so much in WCC but outside of that, gird your loins.

we can agree to disagree

Vanzagger
04-19-2017, 12:31 PM
Issue w/ that is that the last 27 games of his fr year, he was better without NWG than he was as a soph with him. Including those dominant wins v Seton Hall and Utah.

Last year he adapted to playing out of position. We've beaten this horse to death now; might as well wait till November to see who's right. Truce, everyone? It's hard not to respond when a player you like is being bashed w/o balance for his positive accomplishments. The two to's to start the second half, for example, didn't decide the UNC game, and it's comical to me that the bashers discount the fact that his 13 first half points were the reason for the halftime lead.

m g k. You have been sticking up for guards the more than anybody. Keep hitting Home Runs! Deep Runs are special.

TexasZagFan
04-19-2017, 12:38 PM
Hasn't anyone noticed the deep bond that exists between Perk and Few? Josh deferred to Nigel this year, with excellent results. I simply think he's going to expand his game next year. The young man is 7-2 in the Dance, that has to be worth something.

Rbo
04-19-2017, 01:58 PM
We could go back and forth on Josh as a PG for the next 6 months or more. Some think he's "sliced bread" while others think we need a Nigel for the team to excel. Nothing will be settled. Josh had a decent year but without Nigel, I doubt things would be so rosy for him. We do not have a "Nigel" coming up this year. We'll have to wait and see. This next year, with loss of 4 key guy and 50 pts right out of the chute, I doubt things will be anything like this past year. 2 big surprise departures won't help.

I honestly thought we might get back to the FF next year. I would be shocked if that happens now that the 4 are gone. Few's a magician as we know. But when the rabbits are gone, it'll be much harder to pull em out of your hat. Let's see how this plays out. Brace yourself though. When a weak link ( from the starters this past year) is expected to run the team, I smell trouble ahead. Let's hope Few and staff figure it out.

I'd say Melson was vastly improved with his ball handling last year (and cut way back on forcing plays on the break), which should take pressure off of Josh when they are on the floor together (which will be 25+ minutes/game).

Coach Crazy
04-19-2017, 02:20 PM
Perkins may be ready, may not. Only time will tell. I still think we need that fearless offensive juggernaut NWG type guard who is not afraid to take the big shot and take over games if necessary. I just don't see that in Perk or Melson at this point.

That was Josh in the first half of the Natty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cggonzaga
04-19-2017, 02:55 PM
Truth hurts.

That you and Abe can't help yourselves? Guess so.

Look, you are entitled to your opinion no question. What I personally can't take is that both of you post about it constantly as if everybody on this board doesn't already know how you feel. Abe literally writes the same thing over and over again while you're just downright mean about it sometimes. What purpose does it serve?

thespywhozaggedme
04-19-2017, 02:56 PM
I said for the past few years that Josh's main and really only issue is between the ears. He's got great court vision is an excellent shooter and can even drive to the basket at times. His only issue is mental lapses and mistakes. If he can ever fix that, and granted that is a big if, then the skies the limit for him

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 03:18 PM
That you and Abe can't help yourselves? Guess so.

Look, you are entitled to your opinion no question. What I personally can'tCG. take is that both of you post about it constantly as if everybody on this board doesn't already know how you feel. Abe literally writes the same thing over and over again while you're just downright mean about it sometimes. What purpose does it serve?

Right back atcha, CG.

Hoopaholic
04-19-2017, 03:19 PM
I honestly dont understand nor see what some profess to have concerns about with Josh...some write as if he is a turnover machine

he has consistently averaged less per year in turnovers in his first two years(discounted freshman year with broken jaw) than NWG did in his first two 2.0 turnovers to 2.8 TO

he had 7 fewer turnovers this year than NWG did (granted 200 minutes less played) NWG one every 15 minutes Perkins one every 14.66 minutes

Had less games with 4 or more turnovers this year than NWG did

now he has made some turnovers that seemed glaring and maybe that is driving some peoples opinion but when it comes down to it he is simply averaging 2 turnovers per game consistently in his entire career while garnering 3.5 assists per game

some will claim that NWG handled ball far more but that explanation cannot cover Josh last year and Josh having to redefine his role this year.

I see us going back to 4.1 to 4.7 assist per game and holding serve on the career average of 2.0 turnovers per game this coming year while being a scoring threat off bounce and off the double back screen

I am putting my full faith and credit into Josh being a dynamic point guard

BobZag
04-19-2017, 03:41 PM
What if Wade is Pangos 2.0 or Dickau 2.0, or, at worst, Raivio 2.0? His high school vids seem to suggest he might be.

MDABE80
04-19-2017, 03:45 PM
I've said it before: It's not his numbers. He's fine that way. It's how he runs the team and his outstanding boneheaded moves as BobZag said earlier today. The coaches will decide how Josh is best used. I comment on what I and others see.

After seeing how Nigel has run the team, we all know what a focused talented PG can do. We'll be needing that level of expertise to find our way to another Final Four. That's about it folks. Given some time, I suspect Jesse will be a superior PG.

maynard g krebs
04-19-2017, 03:51 PM
What if Wade is Pangos 2.0 or Dickau 2.0, or, at worst, Raivio 2.0? His high school vids seem to suggest he might be.

Then he'll get the 10-15 minutes per game that Dickau/Raivio got as fr and be a quality backup (though Dickau played more late in the season, deservedly). Won't be stepping into essentially an empty spot like Pangos did.

maynard g krebs
04-19-2017, 03:54 PM
I've said it before

Yes. You have. Seemingly hundreds of times. How many more times do you expect to say it?

ZagsGoZags
04-19-2017, 04:03 PM
jazz and abe are valuable, insightful contributors to this board
on the subject of Josh P. I find their comments reasonable,
and time will show the degree of their validity, or not.
What I don't see is abe and jazz putting down others who hold a more positive view.
I don't get board members picking on each other like this.
Why not discuss basketball rather than picking at someone's personality, or pessimism vs. optimism slant?
There is a place for both slants, IMHO.

cggonzaga
04-19-2017, 04:06 PM
Right back atcha, CG.

You make no sense. If you're saying I comment on it all the time it's generally in response to your negative comments. It's tiring and not fair to somebody like Josh that can't defend themselves. Not that he probably gives a flying rip what you have to say about him. It's exhausting this day and age where somebody can sit behind a computer and criticize somebody else without repercussion. Especially when much of the criticism is not fact based. Man I wish he would shut you up next year. Then again you still wouldn't give him credit.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 04:11 PM
It's exhausting in this day and age where somebody like you can sit behind a computer and criticize somebody else for a personal opinion without repercussion.

Zagceo
04-19-2017, 04:17 PM
Whats ironic.....some on this board criticized Mr Collins for calling out his son's critics.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 04:20 PM
Whats ironic.....some on this board criticized Mr Collins for calling out his son's critics.

Holier than thous are a scourge on this board.

U Zig, I Zag
04-19-2017, 04:20 PM
It's exhausting in this day and age where somebody like you can sit behind a computer and criticize somebody else for a personal opinion without repercussion.

The repercussion is that you can then criticize the other guy and them you again and it goes back and forth with no winner - like the world's ####tiest ping pong match.

But then again, that's what internet message boards were made for, so carry on.

I expect big things from Josh next year.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 04:24 PM
The repercussion is that you can then criticize the other guy and them you again and it goes back and forth with no winner - like the world's ####tiest ping pong match.

But then again, that's what internet message boards were made for, so carry on.

I expect big things from Josh next year.

U Zigged Right on that.

MDABE80
04-19-2017, 04:35 PM
Yes. You have. Seemingly hundreds of times. How many more times do you expect to say it?
As many as I think will educate you:)))

cggonzaga
04-19-2017, 04:36 PM
It's exhausting in this day and age where somebody like you can sit behind a computer and criticize somebody else for a personal opinion without repercussion.

This comment isn't ironic to you at all? I find it funny how offended you get when people call you out but it's always ok for you to do so. Poor jazz.

And again, it's not your opinion I have a problem with. It's the persistent barrage. You don't allow anybody else to give the kid some praise without having to say something negative about him.

Zagceo
04-19-2017, 04:46 PM
This comment isn't ironic to you at all? I find it funny how offended you get when people call you out but it's always ok for you to do so. Poor jazz.

And again, it's not your opinion I have a problem with. It's the persistent barrage. You don't allow anybody else to give the kid some praise without having to say something negative about him.

all you're doing is making it a bigger deal by bringing it up........let it go and it might not grind on you as much. its one opinion that you make sound like 100.

cggonzaga
04-19-2017, 04:54 PM
all you're doing is making it a bigger deal by bringing it up........let it go and it might not grind on you as much. its one opinion that you make sound like 100.

Hmm, you're better with him ripping Josh constantly than me attempting to stand up for Josh? Fair enough. I'll let it go.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 05:11 PM
Hmm, you're better with him ripping Josh constantly than me attempting to stand up for Josh? Fair enough. I'll let it go.

See, that's your problem. You've set yourself up as his protector. Why does he need one? These are not personal attacks, like those leveled at Mike Collins, et al, they are opinions of his play, strengths and weaknesses. He has them, you know.

cggonzaga
04-19-2017, 05:27 PM
See, that's your problem. You've set yourself up as his protector. Why does he need one? These are not personal attacks, like those leveled at Mike Collins, et al, they are opinions of his play, strengths and weaknesses. He has them, you know.

IMO jazz they come across as personal, and they're constant. I do understand he has weaknesses. I've said so on many occasions. You do realize he has strengths though correct?

As for Mike Collins, there is a big difference between a kid and a grown man. He also brought it upon himself.

You're right, I'm not his personal protector. If it makes you feel good to continue to criticize him over and over again then I guess it is what it is. Have a good night.

My apologies to the rest of you. This should've been a Josh Perkins appreciation thread.

billyberu
04-19-2017, 05:29 PM
I honestly dont understand nor see what some profess to have concerns about with Josh...some write as if he is a turnover machine

he has consistently averaged less per year in turnovers in his first two years(discounted freshman year with broken jaw) than NWG did in his first two 2.0 turnovers to 2.8 TO

he had 7 fewer turnovers this year than NWG did (granted 200 minutes less played) NWG one every 15 minutes Perkins one every 14.66 minutes

Had less games with 4 or more turnovers this year than NWG did

now he has made some turnovers that seemed glaring and maybe that is driving some peoples opinion but when it comes down to it he is simply averaging 2 turnovers per game consistently in his entire career while garnering 3.5 assists per game

some will claim that NWG handled ball far more but that explanation cannot cover Josh last year and Josh having to redefine his role this year.

I see us going back to 4.1 to 4.7 assist per game and holding serve on the career average of 2.0 turnovers per game this coming year while being a scoring threat off bounce and off the double back screen

I am putting my full faith and credit into Josh being a dynamic point guard
+1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

ZagLawGrad
04-19-2017, 05:40 PM
JP has had some real ups and down. Maybe he will have a break out year that ends all doubts.

Hard at times to look past him literally handing the ball to the opponent like the start of the second half against UNC. Happened a few times over the season . Head scratcher.

But, yes, he had some good plays as well.

MickMick
04-19-2017, 05:43 PM
Winning a WCC title is no small feat. Count me as another that believes this will happen.

ZagLawGrad
04-19-2017, 05:44 PM
Right back atcha, CG.

You make a good point.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 05:47 PM
"As for Mike Collins, there is a big difference between a kid and a grown man. He also brought it upon himself. "

CG , I don't even know where to begin on this statement. ...

former1dog
04-19-2017, 06:09 PM
Good Lord.

Josh Perkins is the most successful starting guard in Gonzaga Basketball history with 7 NCAA wins, including a trip to the Sweet 16 and to the Final 4. He consistently plays well in big games... See wins versus West Virginia (1 turnover!!), Xavier and the first half versus UNC! Has he made mistakes... Of course! Did those mistakes cost us games? On balance, doubtful.

It doesn't matter what any of us say, Josh Perkins has the confidence of our future Hall of Fame coach, he's going to be the starting point guard and there's not a damn thing any of you can do about it. If any of you doubt Few's judgment on an issue this significant at this point, I would seriously suggest you consider some counseling for narcissistic personality disorder.

My prediction is that there is going to be a helluva lot of crow eating going on 11 months or so from now and I'm making a list.

thespywhozaggedme
04-19-2017, 06:16 PM
People, we have an ignore button for a reason. I never used it for the first 15 years but one or two posters started getting nasty and personal with me all the time so I chose to ignorethem, it's been great. The only drawback is when someone quotes them it allows the quote to be seen. But seriously use the ignore button that's why it's there.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 06:16 PM
Good Lord.

Josh Perkins is the most successful starting guard in Gonzaga Basketball history with 7 NCAA wins, including a trip to the Sweet 16 and to the Final 4. He consistently plays well in big games... See wins versus West Virginia (1 turnover!!), Xavier and the first half versus UNC! Has he made mistakes... Of course! Did those mistakes cost us games? On balance, doubtful.

It doesn't matter what any of us say, Josh Perkins has the confidence of our future Hall of Fame coach, he's going to be the starting point guard and there's not a damn thing any of you can do about it. If any of you doubt Few's judgment on an issue this significant at this point, I would seriously suggest you consider some counseling for narcissistic personality disorder.

My prediction is that there is going to be a helluva lot of crow eating going on 11 months or so from now and I'm making a list.

Sigmund, sometimes a turnover is more than just a turnover; sometimes it's a game changer. Put me on top of your list, SVP.

maynard g krebs
04-19-2017, 06:23 PM
As many as I think will educate you:)))

And how many do you think it will take to "educate" Mark Few? Or hoopaholic? Um, you know, basketball coaches?

What I see in talk of "boneheaded" turnover type comments is what's referred to as perception bias. What is the difference between a boneheaded turnover and, say, I don't know, a cartilegeheaded turnover?

former1dog
04-19-2017, 06:25 PM
Sigmund, sometimes a turnover is more than just a turnover; sometimes it's a game changer. Put me on top of your list, SVP.

Jazz, quick, who for Gonzaga shot 35% and committed 5 turnovers in the biggest game of the season?
That same player followed that performance up the next season, again in the biggest game of the season with 29% shooting?

What other player, again in the biggest game of the season, shot 22% (14% from 3 pt range) and committed 3 turnovers?

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 06:32 PM
Jazz, quick, who for Gonzaga shot 35% and committed 5 turnovers in the biggest game of the season?
That same player followed that performance up the next season, again in the biggest game of the season with 29% shooting?

What other player, again in the biggest game of the season, shot 22% (14% from 3 pt range) and committed 3 turnovers?

No idea.

former1dog
04-19-2017, 06:44 PM
No idea.

Dan Dickau (against Michigan State, Sweet 16 and Wyoming in Round 1) and Matt Santangelo (against Purdue in the Sweet 16). All 3 games were losses for the Zags.

Great players, but everyone has poor games. Those two are certainly are on the Mount Rushmore of Gonzaga Hoops and I don't give those bad games a second thought.

When it comes to Perkins, though, you and a few others magnify a few moments (even in games that Gonzaga won!!) and make Perkins out to be something he's not, an unworthy starting guard on a championship level team. He is very worthy and his teams are much more successful than either Dickau's or Santangelo's.

Hoopaholic
04-19-2017, 06:50 PM
Jazz

Can you give me an idea of what you will consider success by josh next year as a true PG?

Running the team, getting team involvement. 10 ppg 4 assists 2.2 turnovers 3 rebounds cl38% from 3 line and 80% free throw. Wcc title. Would that be success?

Love to hear what you would define as solid pg play

cjm720
04-19-2017, 06:54 PM
Not sure any of our guards can get by a defender like NWG did. He's our best guard ever and he certainly will be missed. We still will win 30 games and be really good but he's going to be tough to replace.

23dpg
04-19-2017, 07:07 PM
I wrote this assessment of Josh a few days ago on the SSF site:

IMO Josh is a combo guard
He’s also the best option to run the team next year if/when NWG declares.
He is a good shooter.
He’s a good and willing passer but he mixes it up with lazy or low% passes.
His ball handling skills are average. He gets picked a lot. Opposing pgs must love it when he tries to cross over in front of them.
He is an average D1 athlete. So was NWG. This can be overcome with a high bball IQ.

The one skill I’d like Josh to work on this off season is his ball handling. Namely, being stronger with the ball.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 07:07 PM
Dan Dickau (against Michigan State, Sweet 16 and Wyoming in Round 1) and Matt Santangelo (against Purdue in the Sweet 16). All 3 games were losses for the Zags.

Great players, but everyone has poor games. Those two are certainly are on the Mount Rushmore of Gonzaga Hoops and I don't give those bad games a second thought.

When it comes to Perkins, though, you and a few others magnify a few moments (even in games that Gonzaga won!!) and make Perkins out to be something he's not, an unworthy starting guard on a championship level team. He is very worthy and his teams are much more successful than either Dickau's or Santangelo's.

Josh has been fortunate to play with six excellent bigs the last two years, five of whom may play in the NBA some day, as well as two veteran point guards. He's contributed but he's NOT a lead guard. Rewind his play vs Syracuse at the end of the game and the second half of the NC. Nauseating. He's a solid two guard, very good shooter, auxiliary ball handler, decent size. NOT a lead guard. Next year, 12 points a game from the 2 would be excellent.

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 07:08 PM
I wrote this assessment of Josh a few days ago on the SSF site:

IMO Josh is a combo guard
He’s also the best option to run the team next year if/when NWG declares.
He is a good shooter.
He’s a good and willing passer but he mixes it up with lazy or low% passes.
His ball handling skills are average. He gets picked a lot. Opposing pgs must love it when he tries to cross over in front of them.
He is an average D1 athlete. So was NWG. This can be overcome with a high bball IQ.

The one skill I’d like Josh to work on this off season is his ball handling. Namely, being stronger with the ball.

A plus.

maynard g krebs
04-19-2017, 07:14 PM
Josh has been fortunate to play with six excellent bigs the last two years, five of whom may play in the NBA some day, as well as two veteran point guards.

Jeez. He played pg his RS fr year. There was no veteran pg on the team that year. And after a bumpy first 9 games his assist/to numbers, the traditional measure of offensive pg play, were about the same as NWG's this past season.

former1dog
04-19-2017, 07:21 PM
Josh has been fortunate to play with six excellent bigs the last two years, five of whom may play in the NBA some day, as well as two veteran point guards. He's contributed but he's NOT a lead guard. Rewind his play vs Syracuse at the end of the game and the second half of the NC. Nauseating. He's a solid two guard, very good shooter, auxiliary ball handler, decent size. NOT a lead guard. Next year, 12 points a game from the 2 would be excellent.

You seem to be unaware of your double standard old buddy?

Dickau and Santangelo, whom I've neverknown you to criticize, played much worse in the games I mentioned and he's nauseating?

We are entitled to our opinions but one would hope for consistency and fairness. Your opinion has come up short in those categories.

MickMick
04-19-2017, 07:21 PM
I wrote this assessment of Josh a few days ago on the SSF site:

IMO Josh is a combo guard
He’s also the best option to run the team next year if/when NWG declares.
He is a good shooter.
He’s a good and willing passer but he mixes it up with lazy or low% passes.
His ball handling skills are average. He gets picked a lot. Opposing pgs must love it when he tries to cross over in front of them.
He is an average D1 athlete. So was NWG. This can be overcome with a high bball IQ.

The one skill I’d like Josh to work on this off season is his ball handling. Namely, being stronger with the ball.

A very fair and accurate assessment.

Who knows how much a kid can improve? I thought Olynyk and Pargo showed the most improvement over the span of their GU careers (I better toss Sacre into this category as well). In the first couple of years, I really couldn't understand the love for Pargo after witnessing his less than impressive freshman campaign. He did get much better over time. Alternatively, I thought Harris and Pangos hit their ceiling very quick, but then their ceiling was relatively high to begin with. Both were really good right out of the gate.

With Perkins we will just have to wait and see, but I will say that I'm not "all in" with "taking off the handcuffs" or giving JP "the keys to the car". He is not a mediocre player by any means, but I'm not getting spun up by this "ready for the moment" talk either.

gonzagafan62
04-19-2017, 07:25 PM
A very fair and accurate assessment.

Who knows how much a kid can improve? I thought Olynyk and Pargo showed the most improvement over the span of their GU careers. In the first couple of years, I really couldn't understand the love for Pargo after witnessing his less than impressive freshman campaign. He did get much better over time. I thought Harris and Pangos hit their ceiling very quick, but then their ceiling was relatively high to begin with. Both were really good right out of the gate.

With Perkins we will just have to wait and see, but I will say that I'm not "all in" with "taking off the handcuffs" or giving JP "the keys to the car". He is not a mediocre player by any means, but I'm not getting spun up by this "ready for the moment" talk either.

Me either. Hopefully I'm surprised but I doubt it. 109% agree with mick. No scrub good player but not even close to a NWG

ZagLawGrad
04-19-2017, 07:28 PM
Me either. Hopefully I'm surprised but I doubt it. 109% agree with mick. No scrub good player but not even close to a NWG

Ditto

jazzdelmar
04-19-2017, 07:38 PM
You seem to be unaware of your double standard old buddy?

Dickau and Santangelo, whom I've neverknown you to criticize, played much worse in the games I mentioned and he's nauseating?

We are entitled to our opinions but one would hope for consistency and fairness. Your opinion has come up short in those categories.

Coming up short? Are you still diagnosing in psychological terms, old buddy? :D

willandi
04-19-2017, 07:58 PM
Well, obviously, we need a better PG than Perkins. That goes without saying. We also need to get rid of Few and the other coaches that are foolish enough to believe in him.

I'm just not sure if losing the 4 we did this year, plus Alberts and maybe Edwards, if now is a good time to get rid of Mark Few. He did get the team to the National Championship game.

Well, we can wait a year and hope he improves enough to satisfy Jazz and Abe.

zagsfanforlife
04-19-2017, 08:10 PM
Sigmund, sometimes a turnover is more than just a turnover; sometimes it's a game changer. Put me on top of your list, SVP.

Same here. You're exactly right. HIs turnovers were all very careless and all in very bad times.

zagsfanforlife
04-19-2017, 08:11 PM
A very fair and accurate assessment.

Who knows how much a kid can improve? I thought Olynyk and Pargo showed the most improvement over the span of their GU careers (I better toss Sacre into this category as well). In the first couple of years, I really couldn't understand the love for Pargo after witnessing his less than impressive freshman campaign. He did get much better over time. Alternatively, I thought Harris and Pangos hit their ceiling very quick, but then their ceiling was relatively high to begin with. Both were really good right out of the gate.

With Perkins we will just have to wait and see, but I will say that I'm not "all in" with "taking off the handcuffs" or giving JP "the keys to the car". He is not a mediocre player by any means, but I'm not getting spun up by this "ready for the moment" talk either.

Agreed

Alum08
04-19-2017, 08:22 PM
Perkins is the most creative guard in Zags history. Like all creatives he wears his successes and his failures on his sleeve.

Some people value discipline much more than creativity. Some people prefer traditional positioning as opposed to 'combo' or 'tweener' skillsets. To those people the positives that Perkins brings to the team will be lost.

MDABE80
04-19-2017, 08:36 PM
Creative how? That's a new description........you mean in turnovers? Scoring?
The one thing true is that "Well, obviously, we need a better PG than Perkins" as Will points out:)
Few's fine though.

zagsfanforlife
04-19-2017, 08:38 PM
Creative how? That's a new description........you mean in turnovers? Scoring?
The one thing true is that "Well, obviously, we need a better PG than Perkins" as Will points out:)
Few's fine though.

I think he means like fancy passes.. haha. Creative.. interesting way of putting it.

willandi
04-19-2017, 08:39 PM
Creative how? That's a new description........you mean in turnovers? Scoring?
The one thing true is that "Well, obviously, we need a better PG than Perkins" as Will points out:)
Few's fine though.

No. He can't be. He believes in Perkins. You can't have it both ways.

Alum08
04-19-2017, 08:44 PM
Creative how? That's a new description........you mean in turnovers? Scoring?
The one thing true is that "Well, obviously, we need a better PG than Perkins" as Will points out:)
Few's fine though.

I'm primarily referring to his vision and decision-making in the open court. The kid can push. To a lesser extent his ability to find open players off screens and the PnR.

Rbo
04-19-2017, 08:58 PM
jazz and abe are valuable, insightful contributors to this board
on the subject of Josh P. I find their comments reasonable,
and time will show the degree of their validity, or not.
What I don't see is abe and jazz putting down others who hold a more positive view.
I don't get board members picking on each other like this.
Why not discuss basketball rather than picking at someone's personality, or pessimism vs. optimism slant?
There is a place for both slants, IMHO.

That's just who Jazz and Abe are, like it or not. Personally I don't.

MDABE80
04-19-2017, 09:07 PM
Nobody's picked on anybody ZagsGoZags.. I may differ with someone's opinion but there's been no personal attacks. If you disagree, produce one.

GeorgiaZagFan
04-19-2017, 10:19 PM
And I believe he will elevate his game to new heights again next year and lead this team back to another FF

I remember watching the Pete Maravich story on VHS tape some years ago...and at one point his coach told him he needed to get better at handling the ball...they then showed a young Pete Maravich taking a basketball with him everywhere he went...don't know if it was true to life...but that part of Perkin's game, the ball handling, always causes me to cringe just a little, especially against the better teams!!

maynard g krebs
04-20-2017, 03:20 PM
As a rs freshman coming off a near 2 year layoff and thrown into the fire, Josh struggled the first 9 or so games. The last 27 games, playing point guard and running the show, he averaged 4.4 assists and 1.6 turnovers, an assist/t.o. ratio of 2.7/1.

As a rs junior, NWG averaged 4.7 assists and 2.2 to's, a ratio of 2.1/1.

McClellan, playing off the ball in 15-16, averaged 2.0 assists and 1.7 t.o. Josh in that role this yr 3.1 and 2.0.

Damn pesky facts. Seems to suggest that some people have what's termed perception bias.

zag67
04-20-2017, 03:46 PM
Thanks Maynard. Well stated.

ZagLawGrad
04-21-2017, 11:12 AM
2017 NCAA Assist/Turnover ratio stats http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/individual/473/p5

Player Rankings?

NWG #73

JP? #233--------out of 250 on the list. 1.53 ratio. Only 119 assists in 38 games. But 75 TOs

Pesky facts.

Ezag
04-21-2017, 11:26 AM
Turn over to assist ratio is one thing but whose gonna step up, be a scorer and put the team on his back if needs be ala NWG...Is JP capable of this, that is my question?

TexasZagFan
04-21-2017, 11:37 AM
Turn over to assist ratio is one thing but whose gonna step up, be a scorer and put the team on his back if needs be ala NWG...Is JP capable of this, that is my question?

Just my $.02, but I predict the top 3 scorers next year will be Rui, Norvell, and Silas. Wouldn't surprise me if there's as much balance next year as there was this year, i.e. 6-7 players averaging at least 8 ppg.

maynard g krebs
04-21-2017, 11:38 AM
2017 NCAA Assist/Turnover ratio stats http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/individual/473/p5

Player Rankings?

NWG #73

JP? #233--------out of 250 on the list. 1.53 ratio. Only 119 assists in 38 games. But 75 TOs

Pesky facts.

LOL. OK, let's examine this. First of all, you are aware, aren't you, that those are the top 250 players in that stat in D1, right? Out of 4500 players. Which puts JP's number in the top 5- 6% of all players.

Of course, you expect guards to have better a/to numbers than bigs. But you also expect pg's to have better a/to numbers than 2 guards. So you would expect NWG to have a better number this year, as he did.

But the point is, you need to compare apples to apples. That is why I gave numbers when playing the point guard position, in the years that each did so. (Correcting, of course, for Josh's early season struggles; not unreasonable imo when comparing a fr to a 4th yr junior w/ 2 full years starting experience). That's also why I gave McClellan's #s playing the two with Josh.

It really shouldn't be that hard for a guy who allegedly completed law school to understand.

jazzdelmar
04-21-2017, 11:39 AM
Turn over to assist ratio is one thing but whose gonna step up, be a scorer and put the team on his back if needs be ala NWG...Is JP capable of this, that is my question?

No.

TexasZagFan
04-21-2017, 11:44 AM
LOL. OK, let's examine this. First of all, you are aware, aren't you, that those are the top 250 players in that stat in D1, right? Out of 4500 players. Which puts JP's number in the top 5- 6% of all players.

Of course, you expect guards to have better a/to numbers than bigs. But you also expect pg's to have better a/to numbers than 2 guards. So you would expect NWG to have a better number this year, as he did.

But the point is, you need to compare apples to apples. That is why I gave numbers when playing the point guard position, in the years that each did so. That's also why I gave McClellan's #s playing the two with Josh.

It really shouldn't be that hard for a guy who allegedly completed law school to understand.

"Allegedly"? Isn't that hitting a bit below the belt? ;)

maynard g krebs
04-21-2017, 11:47 AM
"Allegedly"? Isn't that hitting a bit below the belt? ;)

I guess, but his post was either a deliberate attempt to mislead, or really dumb. Take your pick. Don't think my response was unjustified.

maynard g krebs
04-21-2017, 11:47 AM
No.

Agree. Not gonna be his role.

ZagLawGrad
04-21-2017, 11:56 AM
LOL. OK, let's examine this. First of all, you are aware, aren't you, that those are the top 250 players in that stat in D1, right? Out of 4500 players. Which puts JP's number in the top 5- 6% of all players.

Of course, you expect guards to have better a/to numbers than bigs. But you also expect pg's to have better a/to numbers than 2 guards. So you would expect NWG to have a better number this year, as he did.

But the point is, you need to compare apples to apples. That is why I gave numbers when playing the point guard position, in the years that each did so. (Correcting, of course, for Josh's early season struggles; not unreasonable imo when comparing a fr to a 4th yr junior w/ 2 full years starting experience). That's also why I gave McClellan's #s playing the two with Josh.

It really shouldn't be that hard for a guy who allegedly completed law school to understand.

Lol. Don't like objective stats if they don't fit your story? #233 is a lousy stat considering he just finished the season on the 2nd best team in the country. 4,500 hundred players in D-I offers no comparison. So much for the top 5-6% in the county nonsense. Without NWG there to have lead the team one can only wonder.

Why you defend JP as if he is a great PG is beyond me. He has potential, but he disappears on the court way too often. You don't even have to go to college to figure that one out. Pesky facts, SMH

bartruff1
04-21-2017, 12:09 PM
I think Josh is gong to be THE MAN next season....

maynard g krebs
04-21-2017, 12:10 PM
Lol. Don't like objective stats if they don't fit your story? #233 is a lousy stat considering he just finished the season on the 2nd best team in the country. 4,500 hundred players in D-I offers no comparison. So much for the top 5-6% in the county nonsense. Without NWG there to have lead the team one can only wonder.

Why you defend JP as if he is a great PG is beyond me. He has potential, but he disappears on the court way too often. You don't even have to go to college to figure that one out. Pesky facts, SMH

You said "out of 250" as if he was near last, when in reality it was just arbitrarily how far they chose to list. So either a deliberate, or ignorant, attempt to mislead.

Stop trying to obfuscate, if you're capable of stoppiing, that is. I'm just presenting relevant data, in context. Please show me where I've said anything about "great". I haven't used that word; just tried to use data to correct inaccurate, biased posts.

jazzdelmar
04-21-2017, 12:12 PM
Lol. Why you defend JP as if he is a great PG is beyond me. He has potential, but he disappears on the court way too often. You don't even have to go to college to figure that one out. Pesky facts, SMH

Now you're talking, counselor. It's confounding. I just rewatched the first half of the NC and Josh was frankly brilliant. Had 13 could have easily had 15 or 17. Karno was brutal; he simply could not have played worse. And Mathews stunk. The only 2 Zags with poise were ZC and Josh. Second half, another story. Point being, he can be a terrific contributor. But he's not a point guard and up to now he's high risk whenever he's out there.

ZagLawGrad
04-21-2017, 12:23 PM
Now you're talking, counselor. It's confounding. I just rewatched the first half of the NC and Josh was frankly brilliant. Had 13 could have easily had 15 or 17. Karno was brutal; he simply could not have played worse. And Mathews stunk. The only 2 Zags with poise were ZC and Josh. Second half, another story. Point being, he can be a terrific contributor. But he's not a point guard and up to now he's high risk whenever he's out there.

I agree for sure he has some really good moments of play. Really good first half against UNC, then incredibly the first play of the second half he literally hands the ball to UNC for the easiest basket of the game (not the first time in the Final Four or the season). And that started a 8-10 point or so run by UNC the Zags never recovered from.

Here's to hoping he can take the high risk side out of his game.

ZagLawGrad
04-21-2017, 12:31 PM
You said "out of 250" as if he was near last, when in reality it was just arbitrarily how far they chose to list. So either a deliberate, or ignorant, attempt to mislead.

Stop trying to obfuscate, if you're capable of stoppiing, that is. I'm just presenting relevant data, in context. Please show me where I've said anything about "great". I haven't used that word; just tried to use data to correct inaccurate, biased posts.

If the word isn't "great", then you sure seem to be hovering around at least "pretty good". That's my read of how you view him from your posts like the one where you shove the weak "last 27 games" stats into play. And inaccurately showing NWG compared to JP when the national season stats don't support your point. That's the only misleading or ignorant or deliberate stat I see on here. Mine is linked for drawing one's own conclusions.

jazzdelmar
04-21-2017, 12:32 PM
I think Josh is gong to be THE MAN next season....

Based on.........?

bartruff1
04-21-2017, 12:42 PM
experience....maturity.....confidence......what Few will ask him to do...

jazzdelmar
04-21-2017, 12:44 PM
experience....maturity.....confidence......what Few will ask him to do...

Kinda low in the tank on 2 of those.

billyberu
04-21-2017, 01:03 PM
That Josh has been inconsistent to this point in his career is hardly damning. He, like other guards at Gonzaga, will make a significant leap in efficiency from his Sophomore to Junior season. Mark Few has only ever shown consistency in developing guards and I see no glaring deficiencies that can't be overcome with good coaching and hard work. Since when has Josh lacked in work ethic and maturity?


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

maynard g krebs
04-21-2017, 01:06 PM
If the word isn't "great", then you sure seem to be hovering around at least "pretty good". That's my read of how you view him from your posts like the one where you shove the weak "last 27 games" stats into play. And inaccurately showing NWG compared to JP when the national season stats don't support your point. That's the only misleading or ignorant or deliberate stat I see on here. Mine is linked for drawing one's own conclusions.

OK, if you don't like the comparison, here's a direct one playing as pg. (As I've pointed out above, sg numbers aren't comparable).

Freshman year totals:
Perkins 4.1/2.1
NWG 4.4/2.9 (soph 4.4/2.8)

It took NWG until his jr year to surpass Josh'e full season fr number (and barely, at that), a number for JP that rose dramatically in the last 3/4 of the season, as I've shown).

NWG is clearly the better scorer and rebounder, but you didn't bring any of that up.

cjm720
04-21-2017, 01:35 PM
Josh is a fine player and will only get better. But I think the lofty expectations coming in set the bar a bit too high. He was considered the best passing guard in the class and personally I feel passing is average. That said he's a fantastic jump shooter, which has been a pleasant surprise.

MDABE80
04-21-2017, 01:37 PM
Better all the way around. Nigel's a PG, Josh is a fill in PG and an off guard. it's not his numbers They're fine. It his play. He cannot run this offense. Chipping in a few shots is one thing he does well. Defense, and game management ( ie team management in different games against different opponents) are huge problems for him. Loss of focus and really important TO's (2 in the first 60 secs of the Championship game) preclude trust. He may not do many TO's but when he does, they[re spectacular! lol

Good Off guard. We need a PG with Nigel's focus, maturity, energy and the certain factor that makes Nigel work so well. SOme intangibles beyond quantification. Don't measure these guys by the numbers. Just watch them play.

maynard g krebs
04-21-2017, 05:30 PM
This is the problem with perception bias and the two turnovers to start the second half of the champ game. Yes, they were a factor in UNC's 8 pt run to start the second half. BUT THAT WAS NOT THE TURNING POINT IN THE GAME. Excuse me for shouting, but it overlooks the fact that GU immediately followed with an 8-0 run of their own to retake the lead, 43-40, same as the 35-32 halftime lead.

So the nonsense that the timing of Josh's two total turnovers was somehow the deciding factor in the game is just that and nothing more or less. There are ebbs and flows in every game, and that particular minute in the game was NOT when the tide turned. The tide turned when Zach Collins was hit with his phantom fourth foul a couple of minutes later. A perusal of the play by play on ESPN's site will verify that.

Damn pesky facts again.

gonzagafan62
04-21-2017, 05:33 PM
This is the problem with perception bias and the two turnovers to start the second half of the champ game. Yes, they were a factor in UNC's 8 pt run to start the second half. BUT THAT WAS NOT THE TURNING POINT IN THE GAME. Excuse me for shouting, but it overlooks the fact that GU immediately followed with an 8-0 run of their own to retake the lead, 43-40, same as the 35-32 halftime lead.

So the nonsense that the timing of Josh's two total turnovers was somehow the deciding factor in the game is just that and nothing more or less. There are ebbs and flows in every game, and that particular minute in the game was NOT when the tide turned. The tide turned when Zach Collins was hit with his phantom fourth foul a couple of minutes later. A perusal of the play by play on ESPN's site will verify that.

Damn pesky facts again.

Yup. Some people on here amaze me with their lack of basketball awareness.

They hate josh cuz they like to hate him. Idk why.

Anyway turning point was Collins fouling out. It's pretty simple.

MDABE80
04-21-2017, 07:18 PM
Wake up. Nobody hates Josh at all! On a basketball board it's ok to evaluate his play.

willandi
04-21-2017, 07:25 PM
Wake up. Nobody hates Josh at all! On a basketball board it's ok to evaluate his play.

What do you know that Few and the coaching staff don't? They like Josh's play and believe in him, you don't. Either you are right or they are. What do you know that proves your point over theirs?

MDABE80
04-21-2017, 08:44 PM
Will. Who did staff chose as their PG in this last record breaking year? It wasn't Josh. Why didn't they? Because they thought there was a better PG. All along many here admit Josh is a good and serviceable SG. ... just a secondary choice to run the Zags. Nothing fancy in the logic. It's there for all to see .
Don't know why this is even being argued.

Coach Crazy
04-21-2017, 08:49 PM
Given Josh's USG%, he has the ability to be pretty optimal, in terms of being a facilitator at the PG position.

Do his turnovers need to decrease a bit? Sure. But he has the ability to get his AST% to NWG status.

He very well could have been laboring under a certain bridle and be a completely different guard without that restriction and more confidence from the staff.

There won't be as much deep entry to the post, and I would imagine with the shooters that will be on the floor, you'll be able to spread things out, get some single post screening to go with it, and allow Josh some dribble-drive opportunities. There will be more scoring opportunities and kick outs that result from that.

As well, there will be a lot more opportunity and possibly necessity for transition. Those types of things are
more Josh. If he can handle the Few element of the offense, he'll be just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

willandi
04-21-2017, 08:55 PM
Will. Who did staff chose as their PG in this last record breaking year? It wasn't Josh. Why didn't they? Because they thought there was a better PG. All along many here admit Josh is a good and serviceable SG. ... just a secondary choice to run the Zags. Nothing fancy in the logic. It's there for all to see .
Don't know why this is even being argued.

It seemed to me that they shared the Guard slot. NWG played more minutes per game, had more assists per game and had more turnovers per game.

The staff have implied, from what I have read here, that JP is the starting PG next year. They think he is good enough. You don't. Other than your opinion (which you are surely entitled to) explain why the coaching staff is wrong and you are right.

I also don't understand why this is being argued here. Please support your position with more than your opinion.

The509sfinest
04-21-2017, 09:04 PM
Well of course The staff chose Nigel to start at PG, Nigel would start anywhere...Josh will be starting at point next year period...with Melson right next to him at the 2 slot.

Outraged
04-21-2017, 09:07 PM
No wories here. I think Perkins has got the best education and exposure to what works and what dos'nt work. It is quite obvious that he is listening. Now just shut up and watch.

GrizZAG
04-21-2017, 09:13 PM
Can't help but think of how sloppy and frightening Jeremy Pargo was early in his GU career. He evolved into a pretty solid player that instilled trust in the end. He caused me trepidation early and confidence late. Hopefully Josh evolves in the same manner. I also believe his role was to support Nigel this year and not be the go to guy which impacted his game flow.

MDABE80
04-21-2017, 09:28 PM
It seemed to me that they shared the Guard slot. NWG played more minutes per game, had more assists per game and had more turnovers per game.

The staff have implied, from what I have read here, that JP is the starting PG next year. They think he is good enough. You don't. Other than your opinion (which you are surely entitled to) explain why the coaching staff is wrong and you are right.

I also don't understand why this is being argued here. Please support your position with more than your opinion.

Sharing like 80-20. I guess that's a share. Used to give Nigel a break.

Murphy outgo lifer
04-21-2017, 11:31 PM
The arguments being debated by both sides are focusing on what position Perkins should be playing next season. I think the one thing we can all agree on is that Perkins is extremely important to next years team. This guy can flat out score and we are going to need him put up his best offensive numbers of his career to replace what we lost this last year.


In arguably our biggest OCC games of Florida, Iowa ST, Arizona, and Tennesee he averaged,

15 PPG
2.5 APG
2.25 TOs

This guy can absolutely light it up and in a short time as seen in the first half of the NC game and we are going to need that on a consistent basis next year. I personally feel that he is best as a combo guard and not the primary but we do not have an experienced PG that will allow him to play that next year. This guy is extremely talented so hopefully he can figure it out and limit the unforced errors and inconsistent play. I honestly think Josh could average 18 PPG next year if Josh was allowed to be the SG for most of the time as I think a lot of his struggles the second half of the season were due to some injuries. Like others on here, I am not sure how he will do with having to control the whole game and hunt his own shot. Inconsistency and unforced errors are traits of underclassmen and he will be a 4th year Junior next year so I hope those get ironed out and he plays at a high level the whole year.

cggonzaga
04-22-2017, 12:06 AM
It seemed to me that they shared the Guard slot. NWG played more minutes per game, had more assists per game and had more turnovers per game.

The staff have implied, from what I have read here, that JP is the starting PG next year. They think he is good enough. You don't. Other than your opinion (which you are surely entitled to) explain why the coaching staff is wrong and you are right.

I also don't understand why this is being argued here. Please support your position with more than your opinion.

I agree will. Seemed to me when both were in the game at the same time Josh ran the point. Both were essentially combo guards this past season.

willandi
04-22-2017, 07:17 AM
Sharing like 80-20. I guess that's a share. Used to give Nigel a break.

Then why was he bringing the ball up court and distributing? I think you have blinders on and see what you want.

Maybe you are right and it's the rest of us that are wrong, but somehow I don't think so, and you still offer nothing but your opinion as to why you are right and the coaching staff is wrong in their support of JP.

MickMick
04-22-2017, 09:47 AM
http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/boxscore?id=94448

Few's decision making in the last seven minutes won this game, or we would all be discussing, once again, what might have been.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?59839-GAME-THREAD-vs-Northwestern-NCAA-Tournament-Roundof32/page22

maynard g krebs
04-22-2017, 11:01 AM
http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/boxscore?id=94448

Few's decision making in the last seven minutes won this game, or we would all be discussing, once again, what might have been.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?59839-GAME-THREAD-vs-Northwestern-NCAA-Tournament-Roundof32/page22

"I thought Goss was off today 6-19 3 to and big air all in crunch time".

Was that your point? Or did it have to do with one of the 3 players that didn't play the last few minutes? Perhaps Shem or JW3? Sorry, but that was just too subtle for the dim-witted like myself. Please elucidate. Thanks in advance.

MickMick
04-22-2017, 11:28 AM
"I thought Goss was off today 6-19 3 to and big air all in crunch time".

Was that your point? Or did it have to do with one of the 3 players that didn't play the last few minutes? Perhaps Shem or JW3? Sorry, but that was just too subtle for the dim-witted like myself. Please elucidate. Thanks in advance.

Check the title of this thread. It may clarify things for you. Apparently, he wasn't ready for Northwestern. It seems that Few agreed with that assessment. Does that not count as a "moment"?

maynard g krebs
04-22-2017, 01:10 PM
Check the title of this thread. It may clarify things for you. Apparently, he wasn't ready for Northwestern. It seems that Few agreed with that assessment. Does that not count as a "moment"?

Yep. Same as it counts as a "moment" for Shem and JW3. I guess none of the 3 were "ready for Northwestern", by your term. To borrow another term you recently used in reference to one of my posts, "sad".

MDABE80
04-22-2017, 03:39 PM
I agree will. Seemed to me when both were in the game at the same time Josh ran the point. Both were essentially combo guards this past season.

You actually believe this? How many games did you watch? Nigel was the point guard totally unless Nigel needed a break or was injured. Josh didn't play much point guard much.the coaches and Few used Nigel at the point. Do you not remember that the coaches asked Josh's if he was ok with bringing in Nigel to play the PG position . Josh approved because he thought it would be better for the team!!
It's like like you've got amnesia... but in a good way;) Never in a negative way;)

jazzdelmar
04-22-2017, 04:16 PM
I think JP is the least of our problems now, as the defections rise. Trouble in paradise.

cggonzaga
04-22-2017, 05:01 PM
You actually believe this? How many games did you watch? Nigel was the point guard totally unless Nigel needed a break or was injured. Josh didn't play much point guard much.the coaches and Few used Nigel at the point. Do you not remember that the coaches asked Josh's if he was ok with bringing in Nigel to play the PG position . Josh approved because he thought it would be better for the team!!
It's like like you've got amnesia... but in a good way;) Never in a negative way;)

I think you see what you want to see. Depends on what you consider a point guard to be. Josh brought the ball up the court the majority of the time and initiated the offense. The ball went through Nigel after that. Again, both players were essentially combo guards last season.

MDABE80
04-22-2017, 06:11 PM
Few brought Nigel to GU to BE THE PG!! And he was the PG. As I said above, he asked Josh's approval to bring in Nigel to run the point. And that's what happened. Josh shushed/slide over to be an SG. He did well. Why did he do well? Because he was in his best position for him and because Nigel was too.

It's how it was for the entire season. My Goodness.
Jazz is right though. Josh is the least of the problem facing Few. A lot more. It only gets worse when scout figure out how good J3 is. I think we know but he could compete at the next level now. I do think he'd be tons better if he does a senior year but if he's given daylight, he'll be joining the other two. Keep your fingers crossed.

ZagzKrak
04-22-2017, 06:22 PM
NWG was brought in so Few could run his 2 PG system that he has run for years.

MileHigh
04-23-2017, 06:12 AM
Nigel was the point guard totally unless Nigel needed a break or was injured. Josh didn't play much point guard much.the coaches and Few used Nigel at the point.

Just to clear this inaccuracy up...and this is from the horses (staff and players) mouths, as well as what my eyes told me this season.... neither Josh nor Nigel was THE pg last year. Not in practice, not in games. Whichever one recieved the ball on the inbounds or on the outlet was instructed to bring the ball up court and get the team into thier offense. Few let both of them call out sets when they were in together, and never would tell Josh to give the ball to Nigel to start the offense, or vice-versa.... Sometimes it would be Nigel and sometimes it would be Josh. Nigel certainly outplayed Josh over the course of the year if you look at his numbers and production, but trust me, the pg duties were split and Few had absolutely no preference (his words) which one brought the ball up court an intiated the offense. Truthe be told, a huge portion of Nigels productivity cam OUTSIDE of the offense when he would go iso, or improvise, and has absolutely nothing to do with his "position" whithin the offense

As for the preseason convo when Nigel was being recruited, Few explained to Josh that they both would simply be "guards" sharing the pg and sg roles when both were in the game and how he preferrd to play that way with two guys that could get other guys shots PLUS score on thier own. He NEVER told Josh Nigel was being brought in to play pg and josh would be primarily a sg.

Hoopaholic
04-23-2017, 06:21 AM
Just to clear this inaccuracy up...and this is from the horses (staff and players) mouths, as well as what my eyes told me this season.... neither Josh nor Nigel was THE pg last year. Not in practice, not in games. Whichever one recieved the ball on the inbounds or on the outlet was instructed to bring the ball up court and get the team into thier offense. Few let both of them call out sets when they were in together, and never would tell Josh to give the ball to Nigel to start the offense, or vice-versa.... Sometimes it would be Nigel and sometimes it would be Josh. Nigel certainly outplayed Josh over the course of the year if you look at his numbers and production, but trust me, the pg duties were split and Few had absolutely no preference (his words) which one brought the ball up court an intiated the offense. Truthe be told, a huge portion of Nigels productivity cam OUTSIDE of the offense when he would go iso, or improvise, and has absolutely nothing to do with his "position" whithin the offense

As for the preseason convo when Nigel was being recruited, Few explained to Josh that they both would simply be "guards" sharing the pg and sg roles when both were in the game and how he preferrd to play that way with two guys that could get other guys shots PLUS score on thier own. He NEVER told Josh Nigel was being brought in to play pg and josh would be primarily a sg.

Not privy to behind scene stuff. But this captures what my eyes saw all season

GoZags
04-23-2017, 06:23 AM
Just to clear this inaccuracy up...and this is from the horses (staff and players) mouths, as well as what my eyes told me this season.... neither Josh nor Nigel was THE pg last year. Not in practice, not in games. Whichever one recieved the ball on the inbounds or on the outlet was instructed to bring the ball up court and get the team into thier offense. Few let both of them call out sets when they were in together, and never would tell Josh to give the ball to Nigel to start the offense, or vice-versa.... Sometimes it would be Nigel and sometimes it would be Josh. Nigel certainly outplayed Josh over the course of the year if you look at his numbers and production, but trust me, the pg duties were split and Few had absolutely no preference (his words) which one brought the ball up court an intiated the offense. Truthe be told, a huge portion of Nigels productivity cam OUTSIDE of the offense when he would go iso, or improvise, and has absolutely nothing to do with his "position" whithin the offense

As for the preseason convo when Nigel was being recruited, Few explained to Josh that they both would simply be "guards" sharing the pg and sg roles when both were in the game and how he preferrd to play that way with two guys that could get other guys shots PLUS score on thier own. He NEVER told Josh Nigel was being brought in to play pg and josh would be primarily a sg.

Thank you MH.

This is how I saw this "magical" season play out vis a vis GU's starting guards.

cggonzaga
04-23-2017, 09:18 AM
Just to clear this inaccuracy up...and this is from the horses (staff and players) mouths, as well as what my eyes told me this season.... neither Josh nor Nigel was THE pg last year. Not in practice, not in games. Whichever one recieved the ball on the inbounds or on the outlet was instructed to bring the ball up court and get the team into thier offense. Few let both of them call out sets when they were in together, and never would tell Josh to give the ball to Nigel to start the offense, or vice-versa.... Sometimes it would be Nigel and sometimes it would be Josh. Nigel certainly outplayed Josh over the course of the year if you look at his numbers and production, but trust me, the pg duties were split and Few had absolutely no preference (his words) which one brought the ball up court an intiated the offense. Truthe be told, a huge portion of Nigels productivity cam OUTSIDE of the offense when he would go iso, or improvise, and has absolutely nothing to do with his "position" whithin the offense

As for the preseason convo when Nigel was being recruited, Few explained to Josh that they both would simply be "guards" sharing the pg and sg roles when both were in the game and how he preferrd to play that way with two guys that could get other guys shots PLUS score on thier own. He NEVER told Josh Nigel was being brought in to play pg and josh would be primarily a sg.

+1

MDABE80
04-23-2017, 10:20 AM
I'll say this is beyond BS. It's just stupidly wrong. Mile.......you're .oh nevermind........lolol.....thhis is just ridiculous.

Hooray4Daye&Gray
04-23-2017, 10:45 AM
I'll say this is beyond BS. It's just stupidly wrong. Mile.......you're .oh nevermind........lolol.....thhis is just ridiculous.

Remember when you were a kid and you figured out you were wrong but stood by your original argument because you were a stubborn little kid?

It wasn't until later in life when we realized that if we stuck by those incorrect arguments we would lose credibility.

Abe and Jazz never learned those things.

This post is my favorite. Such a kid quote. Just a bunch of huffing and puffing without any substance whatsoever. Literally doesn't even create a complete sentence. Just swearing, finger pointing. Of course some spelling errors.

And the classic "lolol" - the tell tale sign of nervous realization that you're backed in a corner with nothing behind you. No supporters, no proof, nothing.

We're all laughing at you, Abe and Jazz. You think you're leading the charge to tear down one of our players (which is not very nice, by the way), but this whole time the mob behind you isn't following you, they're chasing you down.

Get out of our board. You are the 1%, even though you post more than 99% of us. It's time for the new era. Power of positivity. Zags are the best. Go be the worst somewhere else. Doom is dead.

bartruff1
04-23-2017, 10:58 AM
If you don't like a post or a poster, don't read them....this is nonsense, everyone has a right to express their opinions within the rules established in the forum...

maynard g krebs
04-23-2017, 11:10 AM
Not privy to behind scene stuff. But this captures what my eyes saw all season
+1.

maynard g krebs
04-23-2017, 11:14 AM
If you don't like a post or a poster, don't read them....this is nonsense, everyone has a right to express their opinions within the rules established in the forum...

Vander Blue disagrees. Players and families read the board. They are human beings with feelings. Unlike some posters, apparently. Esp those who seem to have no comprehension of the game.

MDABE80
04-23-2017, 11:17 AM
Correct Bart. When what we know and what we've seen in person is negated by some wild eyed posters, it's time to throw in the towel. I'm throwing in the towel. When it comes to Hooray with his mighty 97 posts, his protective "we" is hardly secure. It's the way small minded people protect themselves. It's a long 6 months coming up. No wasting any energy on this nonsense anymore. Nigel was brought here to be the PG and he was spectacular. He did that job. Josh became a SG or at best a combo guard who played point guard selectively.

If Josh reassumes the PG position he had 2 years ago when McClellan assumed control and took us to the S16, I'm will to bet GU doesn't get past the 1st weekend. We may not win the WCC. Somebody will need to step up like McClellan did the last 10 games of the year or like Nigel did most of this season. Josh has some numbers no doubt. BUT he cannot manage this team....and he hasn't the last two years. If he has an awakening in the next we season, terrific. All he has to do is study film of Nigel. We'll see what happens.

MDABE80
04-23-2017, 11:20 AM
Vander Blue disagrees. Players and families read the board. They are human beings with feelings. Unlike some posters, apparently. Esp those who seem to have no comprehension of the game.

Maynard grow up. Nobody's tearing after a kid as a person. When the kid's play is iffy or when discussion the best position for a kid, it's fair game on a basketball board. Let's not try to turn this into a personal attack of a poster when said poster has NEVER attacked one of our student-athlete as a person. It's about basketball only. Nice try though.

AND to be clear, if you have something kin to a personal attack on Josh or any other player, post it. Otherwise STFU.
Also, the other day you said the UNC game wasn't influenced by the 4 points Josh gave up in the first 35 seconds of the 2nd half..............we lost by 6, josh gave up 4 of those 6 right there. And you say those points didn't matter? Among one of the most ridiculous things said.

maynard g krebs
04-23-2017, 11:32 AM
Maynard grow up.

The irony is rich here (see Hooray's post above).

ZagNative
04-23-2017, 12:19 PM
Maynard, don't give up on your smart, well-thought-out posts! You're one of the best, and I appreciate the stands you take vs. those who harp on negative themes against players.

MDABE80
04-23-2017, 12:23 PM
The irony is rich here (see Hooray's post above).

You made claims......step up.

Coach Crazy
04-23-2017, 12:41 PM
Everyone here is wrong but me. Problem solved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JPtheBeasta
04-23-2017, 12:42 PM
I'm not a fan at all of watching drag em out arguments with people trying to convince others how bad they think a Zag player is. NWG made plenty of headscratchingly bad plays last year, but he made up for it by putting the team on his back. Perkins hopefully won't even need to do that. Maybe he steps up, or maybe somebody else does. He may never be the guy to take over a game by the force of his will and leadership, but few are.

I don't think he will drag this team down, and Perkins' experience shouldn't be overlooked, especially if they make another deep run into the tournament. His dribble looked much better this year until right around the time we started hearing about his back- I hope that explainss a significant chunk of his problems last year. If he can avoid taking a few plays off mentally each game I think he will be fine.

I think I'm going to miss NWG's presence on the defensive end at the point of attack as much as anything next year.

maynard g krebs
04-23-2017, 03:30 PM
You made claims......step up.

Be more specific, and I will try to accommodate you. Milehigh explained things about as clearly as things can be explained. Your response to him was well characterized by Hooray. That about covers it imo.

MDABE80
04-23-2017, 05:09 PM
Covered nothing but have it your own way. We'll see what happens;)

bballbeachbum
04-23-2017, 06:49 PM
Not privy to behind scene stuff. But this captures what my eyes saw all season

me too, clear this is what was happening. Interesting to note those that volume post on the subject but evidently missed what actually happened. some funny stuff that...I admit it used to bug me but now it just makes me laugh

bballbeachbum
04-23-2017, 06:51 PM
Just to clear this inaccuracy up...and this is from the horses (staff and players) mouths, as well as what my eyes told me this season.... neither Josh nor Nigel was THE pg last year. Not in practice, not in games. Whichever one recieved the ball on the inbounds or on the outlet was instructed to bring the ball up court and get the team into thier offense. Few let both of them call out sets when they were in together, and never would tell Josh to give the ball to Nigel to start the offense, or vice-versa.... Sometimes it would be Nigel and sometimes it would be Josh. Nigel certainly outplayed Josh over the course of the year if you look at his numbers and production, but trust me, the pg duties were split and Few had absolutely no preference (his words) which one brought the ball up court an intiated the offense. Truthe be told, a huge portion of Nigels productivity cam OUTSIDE of the offense when he would go iso, or improvise, and has absolutely nothing to do with his "position" whithin the offense

As for the preseason convo when Nigel was being recruited, Few explained to Josh that they both would simply be "guards" sharing the pg and sg roles when both were in the game and how he preferrd to play that way with two guys that could get other guys shots PLUS score on thier own. He NEVER told Josh Nigel was being brought in to play pg and josh would be primarily a sg.

thanks man, covered it well here

willandi
04-23-2017, 08:58 PM
You made claims......step up.

I have been asking you to do that. Give us the reason (other than your opinion) that you are right and the rest of us, including Few and the coaching staff, are wrong.