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TravelinZag
04-15-2017, 02:06 AM
What do the Zags need in order to continue an amazing string of dance appearances? WCC will be at most a four-team race for one or two bids. How does GU get one of those in 2018?

GonzagasaurusFlex
04-15-2017, 02:59 AM
1) Perkins / Wade
2) Melson / Kispert
3) Norvell / Rui
4) Tillie / Williams
5) Williams / Larsen / Edwards

jazzdelmar
04-15-2017, 03:09 AM
An experienced big and point guard.

Malastein
04-15-2017, 03:41 AM
Given the talent still on the roster and the promise of 5 potential new contributors(Wade, Norvell, Larsen, Rui, and Kispert), the situation remains more where the Zags will land in the field rather than if they'll make the field. Would love to see Williams-Goss return to help pull all the pieces together, which would also probably mean another shot at a championship. Let's keep our fingers crossed

Zagger
04-15-2017, 04:14 AM
A group of first rate college athletes and GU's coaches. Same as the last dang near two decades :)
The Mrs & I will be in Vegas again in 2018 for the WCC Tourney. Whenever we've gone they've won :)
For us it's all gravy after that. When there are 68-ish teams of the nation's best all hoping, planning, wishing and playing their best to win in the Dance .... anything can happen. Even the Zags can make it to the Championship game (Yeah!). Will they in 2018? Well, they did this year! The Zags are about doing what they can with who they have ... and then some. Then there's 'how the ball bounces'. The WCC isn't just holding its own. The Zags are bringing the WCC up. If the WCC was a really soft league the Zags would not have made it to the Final Four (IMHO). I'm really looking forward to WCC play next season. Those are some exciting games!

This coming season is going to be really spiffy to see how Rui does. I'm betting he starts out rough and makes head shaking mistakes then steadily morphs into ..... stay tuned. Then there's Perks, Silas, J3 & Tillie who we know can blister the court and with the promising, but yet Zag game tested, Norvell, Kispert, Wade, Larsen + at least a couple of unknowns. Toss in NWG should he go for a doctorate ;) ...... The only thing not to like are slimmer chances of getting tickets to games :)

The future is pretty darn bright! :cool:

thespywhozaggedme
04-15-2017, 05:01 AM
If there were literally no more additions to the roster and it was exactly as it is right now, which we know is not the case, they will still win the WCC. This team has P5 talent in a mid major conference.

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-15-2017, 05:47 AM
Even if NWG chooses to go pro, we will still have something that we've ever had before: a core group of returning players with Final Four experience. Williams, Tillie, Melson, and Perkins will provide veteran leadership. Melson has TEN career NCAA wins and is tied with Karnowski for the most of any player in program history. The fifth starter will be whichever one of a half-dozen kids who rises to the top in practice. I would bet on Zach Norvell, but Rui, Larsen, Jones, Kispert, and Wade will all get a chance to win it.

Don't underestimate the immediate contributions that these freshmen will provide. These kids are all Division I ready. Throw in Rui and Jones for additional depth, and we should have the horses to run teams into the ground. We will have the best bench of any team on the West Coast outside of Arizona.

bartruff1
04-15-2017, 06:07 AM
Joel Ayayi a 6' 4" point guard from France visited last weekend.....Tommy is the Imelda Marcos of finding new shoes..

Zagger
04-15-2017, 07:55 AM
Joel Ayayi a 6' 4" point guard from France visited last weekend.....Tommy is Imelda Marcos of finding new shoes..

That's a great way to put it! .... :)

The GU program is just plain spot on in my viewpoint. The team happens to win games because they play well as a team. It's not really any one player (at least this past seaon) it's the team. I sure don't see team play taking a powder - just the opposite. I think the coaches are getting better and so is the program. Players will come and go and some sooner than others - that's just how it goes in a high caliber program attracting players who are destined for the NBA. More power to them and many thanks for their contributions! I do my best as a fan to rise to the level of the program in fandom stuff (learning what I can about the players, focusing on the program rather than the press and/or the 'social media', etc. Nigel has given Spokane lots of love due to how well our community supports the Zags. I know that will be an ongoing relationship. It may have some bumps but they're nothing to dwell on - GU is destined for a National Championship win .... sooner or later .... it's that good of a program. It's really not something to expect .... it's just something that will be a consequence. Each season will be super fun to see how well the team does. Each year will have its fill of other teams also on similar paths. It'll all come out in the wash :)

MDABE80
04-15-2017, 10:44 AM
An experienced big and point guard.

This. When a team loses 4 of it's top 5 scorers, it's unlikely that team be back in the FF for a while. We've lost 3 now. Nigel is no 4.
We'll be needing some serious help to get as far as the Swt 16 next year.

Just putting things in perspective. If Nigel goes, the top 10 ranking is long gone.

gonzagafan62
04-15-2017, 11:03 AM
This. When a team loses 4 of it's top 5 scorers, it's unlikely that team be back in the FF for a while. We've lost 3 now. Nigel is no 4.
We'll be needing some serious help to get as far as the Swt 16 next year.

Just putting things in perspective. If Nigel goes, the top 10 ranking is long gone.

We did last year.... losing sabonis, wiltjer, Mclellan and Dranginis.......

I realize the talent this year is better but come on..... we replaced last years team we can replace this one. No rebuilding... we reload

maynard g krebs
04-15-2017, 11:06 AM
The question was what does the team need to make the NCAA tournament. The answer to that question is nothing.

Ask a different question, of course, and the answer would be different.

cggonzaga
04-15-2017, 11:24 AM
Next year's team is more talented overall than the team from 2 years ago imo. No question we make the tournament again and probably even start the season out as a top 10 team (even without Goss and Collins). With Goss, I think we enter the season top 5.

WallaWallaZag
04-16-2017, 08:24 AM
Next year's team is more talented overall than the team from 2 years ago imo. No question we make the tournament again and probably even start the season out as a top 10 team (even without Goss and Collins). With Goss, I think we enter the season top 5.

yes to the tournament...not a chance for either of your other two scenarios...possible exception if an elite grad transfer comes in.

go take a look at all the "too early" preseason rankings out already...

cjm720
04-16-2017, 08:38 AM
We did last year.... losing sabonis, wiltjer, Mclellan and Dranginis.......

I realize the talent this year is better but come on..... we replaced last years team we can replace this one. No rebuilding... we reload

Agree but NWG and Matthews were special. We need an alpha dog scoring guard transfer. The post will be fine because we have 3 nice bigs now and Rui and Kispert have the bodies to support the post as needed. We can compete for another final 4 with a single transfer and our current makeup imo.

WallaWallaZag
04-16-2017, 10:34 AM
Agree but NWG and Matthews were special. We need an alpha dog scoring guard transfer. The post will be fine because we have 3 nice bigs now and Rui and Kispert have the bodies to support the post as needed. We can compete for another final 4 with a single transfer and our current makeup imo.

more worried about the post...especially post defense. won't be able to guard 1-on-1 against good bigs anymore..lack rim and lane protection without the size and length of karno and collins. tillie needs to get and stay healthy and put on at least 20 pounds to have any chance...if he does and gets some post moves down, he has a chance to really break out.

TexasZagFan
04-16-2017, 10:46 AM
Agree but NWG and Matthews were special. We need an alpha dog scoring guard transfer. The post will be fine because we have 3 nice bigs now and Rui and Kispert have the bodies to support the post as needed. We can compete for another final 4 with a single transfer and our current makeup imo.

Silas & Zach N are capable of being those alpha dogs. Way too much hand wringing about next year's team.

MDABE80
04-16-2017, 11:32 AM
We did last year.... losing sabonis, wiltjer, Mclellan and Dranginis.......

I realize the talent this year is better but come on..... we replaced last years team we can replace this one. No rebuilding... we reload

Last year is an independent event . We can't say we'll do well because of 2015-2016. New world now. We've lost plenty. We have some good kids returning but, it's not quite enough. We absolutely need a PG ( hope Nigel returns) and a skilled big).
I've not seen Larsen play. Maybe he'll help. I suspect he's not a Karno or a Collins. Then again I doubt Collins would have been a center. BTW, I'm not saying we're in trouble of not making the NCAA tournament. We just won't be FF caliber. More like swt 16. Surely not a top 10 team. Nobody's even talked about losing Mathews who I thought was aan essentail component of this past year's team.
Lots of work to be done.

cggonzaga
04-16-2017, 11:48 AM
yes to the tournament...not a chance for either of your other two scenarios...possible exception if an elite grad transfer comes in.

go take a look at all the "too early" preseason rankings out already...

Like this one from espn?

10. Gonzaga Bulldogs

Gonzaga will either be very good or extremely good; these are the only conceivable options. The nation's top defensive team -- and one that often thrived on its inside-out offensive structure -- will be at pains to replace fifth-year senior center Przemek Karnowski, whose role on both ends was central to the Zags' success. That will be especially true if freshman Zach Collins (who nearly matched Karnowski's efficiency in 17 minutes per game off the bench) leaves Spokane, Washington, for the NBA. But if Nigel Williams-Goss returns (and the player of the year candidate very well might, given his relatively meager mock draft showings) alongside Josh Perkins, Johnathan Williams, Killian Tillie and Silas Melson, we'll stick with "extremely good," thanks very much

cggonzaga
04-16-2017, 11:50 AM
Last year is an independent event . We can't say we'll do well because of 2015-2016. New world now. We've lost plenty. We have some good kids returning but, it's not quite enough. We absolutely need a PG ( hope Nigel returns) and a skilled big).
I've not seen Larsen play. Maybe he'll help. I suspect he's not a Karno or a Collins. Then again I doubt Collins would have been a center. BTW, I'm not saying we're in trouble of not making the NCAA tournament. We just won't be FF caliber. More like swt 16. Surely not a top 10 team. Nobody's even talked about losing Mathews who I thought was aan essentail component of this past year's team.
Lots of work to be done.

How many more times you going to post the exact same negativity? There is literally zero chance the team brings in a point guard. In the infamous words of Abe, I'll bet you $100.

WallaWallaZag
04-16-2017, 11:51 AM
Like this one from espn?

10. Gonzaga Bulldogs

Gonzaga will either be very good or extremely good; these are the only conceivable options. The nation's top defensive team -- and one that often thrived on its inside-out offensive structure -- will be at pains to replace fifth-year senior center Przemek Karnowski, whose role on both ends was central to the Zags' success. That will be especially true if freshman Zach Collins (who nearly matched Karnowski's efficiency in 17 minutes per game off the bench) leaves Spokane, Washington, for the NBA. But if Nigel Williams-Goss returns (and the player of the year candidate very well might, given his relatively meager mock draft showings) alongside Josh Perkins, Johnathan Williams, Killian Tillie and Silas Melson, we'll stick with "extremely good," thanks very much

you just proved my point...#10 with the expectation of nwg being back.

cggonzaga
04-16-2017, 11:58 AM
you just proved my point...#10 with the expectation of nwg being back.

I said top 5-10. How does this prove your point? I'll stick to my statement.

WallaWallaZag
04-16-2017, 12:04 PM
I said top 5-10. How does this prove your point? I'll stick to my statement.

because you said top 10 without both...top 5 with nwg...you didn't say 5-10...big difference

Zagger
04-16-2017, 01:27 PM
The Zags can't do this or can't do that stuff is ..... boring. They certainly may not get past the first round. Then again, they may win it all. More than likely (odds) they'll come out in between. But, can't? I simply do not understand where that's coming from.

cggonzaga
04-16-2017, 02:02 PM
because you said top 10 without both...top 5 with nwg...you didn't say 5-10...big difference

Guess I misinterpreted what they wrote. I'm assuming they're saying 10 with both leaving like many of the ESPN guys thought at that time.

I'd think the national runner up returning 5 players, 3 starters (including favorite to win national player of the year candidate) and 5 players total that played considerable minutes, would be a top 5 team the next year.

Coach Crazy
04-16-2017, 04:06 PM
Guess I misinterpreted what they wrote. I'm assuming they're saying 10 with both leaving like many of the ESPN guys thought at that time.

I'd think the national runner up returning 5 players, 3 starters (including favorite to win national player of the year candidate) and 5 players total that played considerable minutes, would be a top 5 team the next year.

I think we should be looking at a few things the journalist and pundit most likely won't.

1. The staff is yet again at another juncture that will require doing something that hasn't had the need for doing: adjusting the offense around a wing-heavy arsenal. It won't be this year's team, but for all we know they'll get the screens and action to fit that.

Does Mark Few's screening and action work great with mountainous big's and deep post entries? Sure, but this is where great coaching comes in.

2. There is the possibility of either a transfer big, or a late recruit. That adds some depth, even if it isn't a Shem-like big.

3. Zack has the potential to have the same kind of impact as a combo guard, as Zach had as F/C. I know you are of the similar mindset, but I still think the national media is severely underestimating how good ZN is.

I think they have the talent to be a Top 10 team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zag67
04-16-2017, 05:02 PM
Coach Crazy, I agree whole heartedly. I also think besides ZN, that Rui, Larsen, and our incoming are going to make a solid contribution.

demian
04-16-2017, 05:48 PM
i think we will be real nice next year even if we lose NWG as well as the others who are gone. I certainly hope NWG stays and if he does stay for his senior season then we will GREAT next year. If we lose NWG the big thing I am worried about is the defense. Our defense was LARGELY the reason we were so dominant this season because like you guys all stated a few weeks ago "defense travels". We could really put the clamps on teams this past season. We will be losing our best rim protector in Collins and Shem was good on defense because of his width and mass and intelligence etc etc. We will be losing an elite level defender in NWG who I thought was a outstanding defender and Matthews was also a GREAT defender I thought. That is the most concerning loss to me is the defensive presence we will be losing if NWG leaves with the other guys. I know Melson and perkins are GREAT defenders but we lose a really good defensive presence at the 3 position (Matthews), what I want to know more than anything is can Kispert defend? Can Norville defend? can Wade defend? that is going to be so critical to our success next season. Can Tillie and Williams will be tough as nails down low but not necessarily rim protectors but they will be nasty in the paint. Larsen needs to be a good defender. While looking for transfers I would like the staff to put a HUGE premium on can the guy play 2016/2017 Gonzaga Elite Level Defense for one season. They need to come in and be ready to play defense like they probably never have before in there life if they want to contribute. Just my thoughts on the issue. I know I may be way off base.

bullzag23
04-17-2017, 10:59 AM
What do the Zags need in order to continue an amazing string of dance appearances? WCC will be at most a four-team race for one or two bids. How does GU get one of those in 2018?

Continue to employ Mark Few.

Reborn
04-17-2017, 11:43 AM
i think we will be real nice next year even if we lose NWG as well as the others who are gone. I certainly hope NWG stays and if he does stay for his senior season then we will GREAT next year. If we lose NWG the big thing I am worried about is the defense. Our defense was LARGELY the reason we were so dominant this season because like you guys all stated a few weeks ago "defense travels". We could really put the clamps on teams this past season. We will be losing our best rim protector in Collins and Shem was good on defense because of his width and mass and intelligence etc etc. We will be losing an elite level defender in NWG who I thought was a outstanding defender and Matthews was also a GREAT defender I thought. That is the most concerning loss to me is the defensive presence we will be losing if NWG leaves with the other guys. I know Melson and perkins are GREAT defenders but we lose a really good defensive presence at the 3 position (Matthews), what I want to know more than anything is can Kispert defend? Can Norville defend? can Wade defend? that is going to be so critical to our success next season. Can Tillie and Williams will be tough as nails down low but not necessarily rim protectors but they will be nasty in the paint. Larsen needs to be a good defender. While looking for transfers I would like the staff to put a HUGE premium on can the guy play 2016/2017 Gonzaga Elite Level Defense for one season. They need to come in and be ready to play defense like they probably never have before in there life if they want to contribute. Just my thoughts on the issue. I know I may be way off base.

According to Few J Williams was the team's best defender, and I agree. Tillie to me was really, really tough and will prove that even more next year. Melson is as good of a defensive guard that you will see. Imo Perkins is NOT a really good defensive player, but is good but gets into foul trouble all the time. HE really makes stupid fouls. IMO Melson is going to be one of our best players next season, especially if NWG leaves. This is going to be his last season and it will be his best by far. He was really, really really good coming off the bench, and imo just as important as Collins was.

To me Larson looks like he could be a pretty good player, and Few said as much. So look forward to him being pretty good. Too bad he got hurt this past season. I expect Norvell to be tough because kids coming out of Chicago are really tough players. I think that the core of next years team is really, really on defense, and will actually be ahead of this years team, imo. there were so many new players this past season, and yet they gelled early. If it turns out to be a year like the '16 team, I'm ok with that. That was a dang good team that gelled late in the season and almost made it to the Elite 8. The foundation to next year is really good, and Few will be able to recruit a couple really good players. I agree, Demian that we do need one really really good rim protector and good rebounder. We have 3 but having four like last year was great. And if e lose Goss, we must remember that we lose a really good rebounder. We need someone like Melson, imo coming off the bench. A good 3 pt shooter and tough as nails. I'm hoping that Norvell can fill his shoes. And yet, if Rui can settle down, and play with some intelligence, he could be a totally awesome replacement for Melson. Believe it or not, I think we're going to have another great season next year, even without Goss. We have an experienced team coming back and I don't worry at all playing against Duke, UNC and Villinova next year. It's going to be a great OOC schedule next year. Best ever. And maybe it be the schedule that the BEST EVER Gonzaga team needs.

ZAG 4 LIFE
04-17-2017, 01:22 PM
Zags will need another big FOR SURE... the returning three have all had knee issues... and only
one of the three is a true 5-man... and he is coming off an ACL surgery... so very vulnerable in the front court.

demian
04-17-2017, 06:31 PM
i agree Reborn I think we will be really good again next season also no matter who leaves. Are we playing Duke and North Carolina also next season in OOC? Oh for sure if next seasons team turned out to be sweet 16 like 2016 team I will be very happy but I think next seasons team even without NWG will have a real good OOC and conference schedule.

WallaWallaZag
04-17-2017, 08:57 PM
If we lose NWG the big thing I am worried about is the defense. Our defense was LARGELY the reason we were so dominant this season because like you guys all stated a few weeks ago "defense travels". We could really put the clamps on teams this past season. We will be losing our best rim protector in Collins and Shem was good on defense because of his width and mass and intelligence etc etc. We will be losing an elite level defender in NWG who I thought was a outstanding defender and Matthews was also a GREAT defender I thought. That is the most concerning loss to me is the defensive presence we will be losing if NWG leaves with the other guys. I know Melson and perkins are GREAT defenders but we lose a really good defensive presence at the 3 position (Matthews), what I want to know more than anything is can Kispert defend? Can Norville defend? can Wade defend? that is going to be so critical to our success next season. Can Tillie and Williams will be tough as nails down low but not necessarily rim protectors but they will be nasty in the paint. Larsen needs to be a good defender. While looking for transfers I would like the staff to put a HUGE premium on can the guy play 2016/2017 Gonzaga Elite Level Defense for one season. They need to come in and be ready to play defense like they probably never have before in there life if they want to contribute. Just my thoughts on the issue. I know I may be way off base.

agree that defense is the main concern next year along with post depth...one thing to remember is that neither nwg or mathews was considered a good defender prior to coming to gonzaga. norvell can defend...he was often given the toughest assignments on his high school team (don't know enough about wade and kispert).

post d is the biggest concern...jw3 is a great defender and weakside shotblocker but he's not a great 1-on-1 post defender and lacks the size to go against bigger guys...same issue with tillie. larsen is a little bigger, but doesn't have the length and athleticism of a collins.

Reborn
04-18-2017, 08:46 AM
i agree Reborn I think we will be really good again next season also no matter who leaves. Are we playing Duke and North Carolina also next season in OOC? Oh for sure if next seasons team turned out to be sweet 16 like 2016 team I will be very happy but I think next seasons team even without NWG will have a real good OOC and conference schedule.

Both Duke and UNC are in that OOC tournament that Gonzaga is in. I am hoping we play them both. Wouldn't that be cool?

ZagzKrak
04-18-2017, 09:03 AM
I would guess we can't play both...they are both ACC so will be in opposite brackets......remember it's 2 tourney's going on at the same time under the same name.

Mr Vulture
04-18-2017, 09:58 AM
Zags will need another big FOR SURE... the returning three have all had knee issues... and only
one of the three is a true 5-man... and he is coming off an ACL surgery... so very vulnerable in the front court.

I don't think a true 5-man is a must for college basketball although it is nice to have. I think we would be just fine playing a combination of JWIII, Tillie, and Larsen in the frontcourt. Not that another big wouldn't be nice to get....

TexasZagFan
04-18-2017, 10:40 AM
More shoes dropping here than Imelda Marcos' closet in an 8.0 earthquake.

MontanaCoyote
04-18-2017, 11:00 AM
I don't think a true 5-man is a must for college basketball although it is nice to have. I think we would be just fine playing a combination of JWIII, Tillie, and Larsen in the frontcourt. Not that another big wouldn't be nice to get....

Really a legit need I think. First for rotation, second in case of injury.

maynard g krebs
04-18-2017, 11:26 AM
Really a legit need I think. First for rotation, second in case of injury.

Maybe not ideal, but both Rui and Kispert can play the 4 in case of injury/foul trouble. Both bigger and/or more athletic than Pendo or Barham, who both played some 4, so there's more depth there than meets the eye.

Agree though that a big is the one real need for this team.

Zagceo
04-18-2017, 11:47 AM
Maybe not ideal, but both Rui and Kispert can play the 4 in case of injury/foul trouble. Both bigger and/or more athletic than Pendo or Barham, who both played some 4, so there's more depth there than meets the eye.

Agree though that a big is the one real need for this team.

Waiting for GZ to spill the beans on unknown big in GU crosshairs

sittingon50
04-18-2017, 01:06 PM
More shoes dropping here than Imelda Marcos' closet in an 8.0 earthquake.

Us young whippersnappers don't get it, TZF!

Hoopaholic
04-18-2017, 01:08 PM
NWG gone......

seacatfan
04-18-2017, 03:57 PM
I would guess we can't play both...they are both ACC so will be in opposite brackets......remember it's 2 tourney's going on at the same time under the same name.

ditto

TravelinZag
04-19-2017, 11:20 PM
According to Few J Williams was the team's best defender, and I agree. Tillie to me was really, really tough and will prove that even more next year. Melson is as good of a defensive guard that you will see. Imo Perkins is NOT a really good defensive player, but is good but gets into foul trouble all the time. HE really makes stupid fouls. IMO Melson is going to be one of our best players next season, especially if NWG leaves. This is going to be his last season and it will be his best by far. He was really, really really good coming off the bench, and imo just as important as Collins was.

To me Larson looks like he could be a pretty good player, and Few said as much. So look forward to him being pretty good. Too bad he got hurt this past season. I expect Norvell to be tough because kids coming out of Chicago are really tough players. I think that the core of next years team is really, really on defense, and will actually be ahead of this years team, imo. there were so many new players this past season, and yet they gelled early. If it turns out to be a year like the '16 team, I'm ok with that. That was a dang good team that gelled late in the season and almost made it to the Elite 8. The foundation to next year is really good, and Few will be able to recruit a couple really good players. I agree, Demian that we do need one really really good rim protector and good rebounder. We have 3 but having four like last year was great. And if e lose Goss, we must remember that we lose a really good rebounder. We need someone like Melson, imo coming off the bench. A good 3 pt shooter and tough as nails. I'm hoping that Norvell can fill his shoes. And yet, if Rui can settle down, and play with some intelligence, he could be a totally awesome replacement for Melson. Believe it or not, I think we're going to have another great season next year, even without Goss. We have an experienced team coming back and I don't worry at all playing against Duke, UNC and Villinova next year. It's going to be a great OOC schedule next year. Best ever. And maybe it be the schedule that the BEST EVER Gonzaga team needs.

Pretty much agree, but defense won't be helped by recruiting a great offensive player under 6'3".

bartruff1
04-20-2017, 06:03 AM
Continue to employ Mark Few.

In a nutshell ....