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VinnyZag
04-11-2017, 04:04 PM
JUST posted on gozags.com. He's "exploring his options," but not hiring an agent right now, but intends to later:
http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041117aaa.html

VinnyZag
04-11-2017, 04:06 PM
My original post might be too mealy-mouthed. It appears he's gonna sign with an agent and is gone. Best of luck to him.

Zagceo
04-11-2017, 04:13 PM
Congrats ...

seacatfan
04-11-2017, 04:13 PM
This is not very surprising. A lot of Zags fans were using their hearts and not their brains when they opined that they really thought he would be coming back. Welcome to the new age. You get top flight talent, that talent doesn't hang around very long.

jazzdelmar
04-11-2017, 04:13 PM
One very brief shining moment.

SageOfZagville
04-11-2017, 04:16 PM
Dang... Best of luck Zach.. Become an all NBA Center.

Section 116
04-11-2017, 04:16 PM
According to KHQ's Sam Adams Collins has declared and DOES intend to hire an agent!

zagdontzig
04-11-2017, 04:16 PM
I'm sure he doesn't make the decision uninformed, and this will be a game-changer for Zags recruiting.

jazzdelmar
04-11-2017, 04:16 PM
I'm sure he doesn't make the decision uninformed, and this will be a game-changer for Zags recruiting.

Why?

gonzagafan62
04-11-2017, 04:18 PM
Why?

Because Fischer will stop stealing our recruits?

Nah probably a pipe dream even though he's gone

jazzdelmar
04-11-2017, 04:20 PM
Because Fischer will stop stealing our recruits?

Nah probably a pipe dream even though he's gone

Most he stole turned out to be stiffs. One reason he's leaving.

Ekrub
04-11-2017, 04:20 PM
One very brief shining moment.

Haha should have hid him on the bench more.

ZagMan in Philly
04-11-2017, 04:22 PM
Will be missed greatly.
Good for him though, as it was his dream to play in the NBA.
Best of luck young man.

zagdontzig
04-11-2017, 04:22 PM
Why?

Why to which part? 1. Players talk to agents, and get a feel for what their draft stock really is. 2. Elite recruits want to see successful tournament runs and one-and-done seasons. We just did both.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 04:23 PM
According to KHQ's Sam Adams Collins has declared and DOES intend to hire an agent!

Wait until after the Combine. He and his family are willing to listen to input.

uZiGiZaG
04-11-2017, 04:23 PM
This stings

23dpg
04-11-2017, 04:24 PM
Zero surprise that he's going in. Slightly (10%) surprised that he's hiring an agent.

jazzdelmar
04-11-2017, 04:26 PM
Why to which part? 1. Players talk to agents, and get a feel for what their draft stock really is. 2. Elite recruits want to see successful tournament runs and one-and-done seasons. We just did both.

And play 16 minutes a game?

bigblahla
04-11-2017, 04:27 PM
Well that should make our WCC brethren happy....best of luck to the young man...love his game....

Go!! Zags!!!

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 04:29 PM
That sucks, especially considering he was the more likely one to come back. :(

Zags11
04-11-2017, 04:29 PM
Lame IMO. Wonder if he will be like daye here or a sabonis.

zagdontzig
04-11-2017, 04:37 PM
And play 16 minutes a game?

Regular season didn't matter. He was in the spotlight in the tournament, and everybody knows that where he's made his bones.

relax y'all. There was a day where everyone thought Zags basketball was over if Sabonis declared. The love letters came pouring out the boards. Just like the courgarboard, y'all forgot Few recruits, and we made a national championship run.

Small-time thinking is over. We're on the verge of becoming a blue-blood, and we're need to start recruiting like it.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 04:38 PM
Lame IMO. Wonder if he will be like daye here or a sabonis.

I understand you are disappointed, but even if he does declare, it means that a kid can come here as a high 4 or McD's AA, and still go to the league as a high pick. Without needing minutes in the high 20's or in the 30's.

Let's not forget that this is a narrative buster. For those that would say that Zach really wouldn't have been an AA without some players ahead of him being injured, it means that Gonzaga can take a high 4* and turn him into a Lottery/Top 10 pick in one year. If they don't want to admit that, then the haters have to admit that Zach was indeed an AA. In other words: Gonzaga is a worthy location for McD's AA's both for development and future earning potential like that of a blue blood program.

That's another huge step for the program.

DukeSilver
04-11-2017, 04:39 PM
And play 16 minutes a game?

You know, your negativity wears out its welcome really quickly ...

It's entirely obvious why recruiting a McD's All-American, having him play a crucial role in a run to the NCAA Championship game, and then declare for the draft as a one-and-done is great for the program in the long run. It's exactly the kind of success at all levels that high-level recruits look for in programs.

Yet, instead of embracing that, you sit here and try to pick at other posters for reasons that are beyond my comprehension. Unreal.

Hoopaholic
04-11-2017, 04:39 PM
According to KHQ's Sam Adams Collins has declared and DOES intend to hire an agent!

This is the part I don't particularly care for. If you care about the program and intend to hire agent go do it so the program can move on

Holding the program in limbo with the intent of hiring is not fair to the university unless the school has his scholarship released so they can go on recruiting

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 04:40 PM
Regular season didn't matter. He was in the spotlight in the tournament, and everybody knows that where he's made his bones.

relax y'all. There was a day where everyone thought Zags basketball was over if Sabonis declared. The love letters came pouring out the boards. Just like the courgarboard, y'all forgot Few recruits, and we made a national championship run.

Small-time thinking is over. We're on the verge of becoming a blue-blood, and we're need to start recruiting like it.

I am closer to this. I think we are probably 5-10 years away from reaching that blue blood status as a firm resident. But this program made some huge leaps. Huge. Brandon Williams is going to tell us a little bit about where this program is.

One thing is for sure: the days of the previous 18 years are over.

23dpg
04-11-2017, 04:42 PM
This is the part I don't particularly care for. If you care about the program and intend to hire agent go do it so the program can move on

Holding the program in limbo with the intent of hiring is not fair to the university unless the school has his scholarship released so they can go on recruiting

I think you missed the crux of the declaration. He is hiring an agent and is not coming back to GU. The Zags will be able to move on.

DukeSilver
04-11-2017, 04:42 PM
This is the part I don't particularly care for. If you care about the program and intend to hire agent go do it so the program can move on

Holding the program in limbo with the intent of hiring is not fair to the university unless the school has his scholarship released so they can go on recruiting

I'm sure "the program" knows much more than us fans do ... Maybe hold off on the criticisms for 5 minutes and we'll see whether you even have anything to complain about.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 04:42 PM
This is the part I don't particularly care for. If you care about the program and intend to hire agent go do it so the program can move on

Holding the program in limbo with the intent of hiring is not fair to the university unless the school has his scholarship released so they can go on recruiting

Ideally, he'd like to go high. Anyone in his position would. But I would wait til the Combine is over or he actually signs. He's been willing to listen to others. He's not making this decision on a whim.

thespywhozaggedme
04-11-2017, 04:43 PM
This stings

You forgot to blame Few.

Hoopaholic
04-11-2017, 04:44 PM
I think you missed the crux of the declaration. He is hiring an agent and is not coming back to GU. The Zags will be able to move on.

So by that declaration is his scholarship released? Don't know the in and outs of the process

jayray
04-11-2017, 04:45 PM
Disappointing. Disappointing that GU is not doing what Florida did that year with Joahkim. Disappointing Collins is going out playing the game he did on that big stage. Disappointing because he isn't going to be getting playing time in the NBA until his game matures. Disappointing he didn't get to play more this year. Disappointing he isn't going as a lottery pick. The whole thing is all around disappointing. Hopefully he has a good career eventually - just always have to wonder what could of been if he gave it one more try.

23dpg
04-11-2017, 04:46 PM
So by that declaration is his scholarship released? Don't know the in and outs of the process

I'm pretty sure that he's saying that he's made his decision but hasn't picked out his agent yet (big decision too). Not sure about the scholarship but I'm sure that Few is recruiting for that roster spot.

Hoopaholic
04-11-2017, 04:46 PM
[QUOTE=DukeSilver;1315406]I'm sure "the program" knows much more than us fans do ... Maybe hold off on the criticisms for 5 minutes and we'll see whether you even have anything



Got it. I can't have a view point into the process

Hoopaholic
04-11-2017, 04:47 PM
I'm pretty sure that he's saying that he's made his decision but hasn't picked out his agent yet (big decision too). Not sure about the scholarship but I'm sure that Few is recruiting for that roster spot.

Hope so as there are some solid kids out there

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 04:48 PM
Without NWG or Collins, the team still has a chance to be top 25 at the very least. May not be a National Championship year so that part is disappointing, but it'll be fun to watch the new kids grow and develop. There is a lot of promising talent waiting to mature. Was definitely holding out hope we would get to see a dominating Collins though.

thespywhozaggedme
04-11-2017, 04:49 PM
Disappointing. Disappointing that GU is not doing what Florida did that year with Joahkim. Disappointing Collins is going out playing the game he did on that big stage. Disappointing because he isn't going to be getting playing time in the NBA until his game matures. Disappointing he didn't get to play more this year. Disappointing he isn't going as a lottery pick. The whole thing is all around disappointing. Hopefully he has a good career eventually - just always have to wonder what could of been if he gave it one more try.

But everything you just posted is about what YOU want him to do. It's his decision and it's a great move and he's going to be a top 10, top 15 pick. Plus it's great for our program: you can come to Gonzaga as an elite prospect and be a one and done. Congrats Zach, I wish you nothing but the best I know you will rep Zag Nation well in the NBA.

Hoopaholic
04-11-2017, 04:51 PM
You know, your negativity wears out its welcome really quickly ...

It's entirely obvious why recruiting a McD's All-American, having him play a crucial role in a run to the NCAA Championship game, and then declare for the draft as a one-and-done is great for the program in the long run. It's exactly the kind of success at all levels that high-level recruits look for in programs.

Yet, instead of embracing that, you sit here and try to pick at other posters for reasons that are beyond my comprehension. Unreal.

Not sold routinely engaged in one and dones is in best interest of program (defined as advancing routinely deep into the tournament, graduating student athletes, embracing the university and city)

Why do you think it will if you agree with the bench marks above

zagdontzig
04-11-2017, 04:53 PM
[I]t's great for our program: you can come to Gonzaga as an elite prospect and be a one and done. Congrats Zach, I wish you nothing but the best I know you will rep Zag Nation well in the NBA.

This.

thespywhozaggedme
04-11-2017, 04:54 PM
Not sold routinely engaged in one and dones is in best interest of program (defined as advancing routinely deep into the tournament, graduating student athletes, embracing the university and city)

Why do you think it will if you agree with the bench marks above

I don't think anyone here wants to see it become a routine thing, but as I just posted in my previous post it tells five star prospects who may be good enough to be one and done is that if they so choose they can come here to Gonzaga and still do that.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 04:55 PM
Disappointing. Disappointing that GU is not doing what Florida did that year with Joahkim. Disappointing Collins is going out playing the game he did on that big stage. Disappointing because he isn't going to be getting playing time in the NBA until his game matures. Disappointing he didn't get to play more this year. Disappointing he isn't going as a lottery pick. The whole thing is all around disappointing. Hopefully he has a good career eventually - just always have to wonder what could of been if he gave it one more try.

Step back from the ledge. And Collins will be getting drafted to play. There is a chance he gets more minutes as a rookie, than he did as a freshman (if he declares). I remember when Sabonis was thought by one or some (can't remember) not to be ready. There is a chance he won't hire an agent unless he is going very high. So, if Zach hires an agent, it isn't to be outside the lottery. I'm also not going to knock him for that last game, as it was called atrociously.

Regardless. Everyone needs to just appreciate how special this kid is, and will still be. If Przemek gets a chance, and Domas gets used the way he should, you could see a great time for Zags big men in the League.

zagdontzig
04-11-2017, 04:56 PM
"Several NBA executives told ESPN that they felt Collins will be selected somewhere from No. 8 to 20 in June's NBA draft."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19137522/gonzaga-bulldogs-freshman-zach-collins-enter-nba-draft-hire-agent

DukeSilver
04-11-2017, 04:58 PM
Got it. I can't have a view point into the process


You're more than welcome to have a viewpoint, but I am similarly welcome to criticize it. Particularly if I find it unnecessarily negative and presumptuous.

23dpg
04-11-2017, 04:59 PM
I think it's debatable as to whether having more one and dones is a good thing for the Gonzaga basketball team. I say that in all earnestness. Both sides have merit.
But I always support the kids doing what is best for themselves and their families.

I'm disappointed for myself that Zach is not playing for the Zags next year. But not dissapointed in Zach.

Zags11
04-11-2017, 05:01 PM
Step back from the ledge. And Collins will be getting drafted to play. There is a chance he gets more minutes as a rookie, than he did as a freshman (if he declares). I remember when Sabonis was thought by one or some (can't remember) not to be ready. There is a chance he won't hire an agent unless he is going very high. So, if Zach hires an agent, it isn't to be outside the lottery. I'm also not going to knock him for that last game, as it was called atrociously.

Regardless. Everyone needs to just appreciate how special this kid is, and will still be. If Przemek gets a chance, and Domas gets used the way he should, you could see a great time for Zags big men in the League.

IMO sabonis now should of stayed one more year. He didn't have a good NBA season IMO. I think Collins will be two years away from doing anything good in league. Main reason? Constantly in foul trouble. It wasn't just the wcc either. Great kid for the one year.

rennis
04-11-2017, 05:01 PM
Good luck young man! I know you are gonna make us all very proud at the next level. Thanks for the awesome year you put in here at Gonzaga.

zagdontzig
04-11-2017, 05:03 PM
I think it's debatable as to whether having more one and dones is a good thing for the Gonzaga basketball team. I say that in all earnestness. Both sides have merit.
But I always support the kids doing what is best for themselves and their families.

I'm disappointed for myself that Zach is not playing for the Zags next year. But not dissapointed in Zach.

Objectively speaking, the more successful programs have one-and-dones. The less-succesful programs don't. It's heartbreaking, but the trend is telling. Elite 8, Sabonis leaves before graduation, Final 4, our first one-and-done. I'm not excited about losing talent, but I am excited about what it means that we're sending talent to the pros early and regularly.

Hoopaholic
04-11-2017, 05:06 PM
Objectively speaking, the more successful programs have one-and-dones. The less-succesful programs don't. It's heartbreaking, but the trend is telling. Elite 8, Sabonis leaves before graduation, Final 4, our first one-and-done. I'm not excited about losing talent, but I am excited about what it means that we're sending talent to the pros early and regularly.
Not sold that is accurate

UNC one and done was who? They made it back to. Back

Butlers one and done was who?

Zagsker
04-11-2017, 05:07 PM
relax y'all. There was a day where everyone thought Zags basketball was over if Sabonis declared. The love letters came pouring out the boards. Just like the courgarboard, y'all forgot Few recruits, and we made a national championship run.

Small-time thinking is over. We're on the verge of becoming a blue-blood, and we're need to start recruiting like it.

Word

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 05:07 PM
IMO sabonis now should of stayed one more year. He didn't have a good NBA season IMO. I think Collins will be two years away from doing anything good in league. Main reason? Constantly in foul trouble. It wasn't just the wcc either. Great kid for the one year.

Sabonis has not been used properly. That's not on him. While Zach had some foul trouble, this year, his fouls per 100 possessions were about the same as Karl-Anthony Townes, his freshman year. Zach also has advanced shot blocking ability. As well, he has post moves and can stretch the floor. Hard to pass that up.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 05:11 PM
Not sold that is accurate

UNC one and done was who? They made it back to. Back

Butlers one and done was who?

This is speaking to programs overall. UNC only is where it is because of the amount of NBA talent it has produced over the course of a certain period of time. And while Duke's players aren't as successful at the next level, they have provided a certain narrative and perception about what they can do both for the player at the college level in terms of winning, and getting him a chance to be drafted high in a short amount of time.

If your players are coached correctly, talent only helps....and ends up being the difference the majority of the time. Butler was an outlier. Not the rule.

Gonzdb8
04-11-2017, 05:11 PM
IMO sabonis now should of stayed one more year. He didn't have a good NBA season

considering russell westbrook doesn't really let anyone else touch the ball but russell westbrook i'd say sabonis's numbers aren't terrible

zagfan24
04-11-2017, 05:17 PM
Good luck To Zach. While I selfishly wish he had stuck around longer, he was a major contributor to the Zags first final 4 run, and were it not for a few bad calls, may have led the Zags to a title. If you only stay one year, that's a hell of a year.

Hoopaholic
04-11-2017, 05:17 PM
This is speaking to programs overall. UNC only is where it is because of the amount of NBA talent it has produced over the course of a certain period of time. And while Duke's players aren't as successful at the next level, they have provided a certain narrative and perception about what they can do both for the player at the college level in terms of winning, and getting him a chance to be drafted high in a short amount of time.

If your players are coached correctly, talent only helps....and ends up being the difference the majority of the time. Butler was an outlier. Not the rule.

Be interesting to see data but I thought I think more teams without one done make it consistently deep in tournament

gonzagafan62
04-11-2017, 05:18 PM
And play 16 minutes a game?

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/daniel-orton-1.html

Stop it jazz. Daniel Orton and several other guys that played less than 16 mins per game at Kentucky have gone to the draft including this guy Daniel Orton

Most don't last long. Hopefully Collins will have a long nice career but I'm not betting my money on it

mgadfly
04-11-2017, 05:19 PM
I can think of 2.44 million reasons (and probably a few endorsement deals as well) why I would have left. Especially looking at how deep this draft is. Would he do any better in it or just lose a year he could have been earning compensation.

gonzagafan62
04-11-2017, 05:20 PM
I can think of 2.44 million reasons (and probably a few endorsement deals as well) why I would have left. Especially looking at how deep this draft is. Would he do any better in it or just lose a year he could have been earning compensation.

Did you see the salary difference? Impulse buying for sure! Okay I'm not he best on how this works haha

ProVeeZag
04-11-2017, 05:26 PM
Haha should have hid him on the bench more.

So you're saying the refs in the title game against UNC were actually trying to do us a favor?? Very clever!

cggonzaga
04-11-2017, 05:27 PM
Congrats and good luck Zach!

On a bright note, we now have an open scholarship!

btzag
04-11-2017, 05:33 PM
I think we all wish ZC good luck and success in the NBA!

I personally think it is too soon and he is not prepared for NBA hoops. I have seen only a few scattered instances over the years where a player actually 'developed' into a great player in an NBA program. With his size though he will make millions so that part will definitely be accomplished.

Great opportunity for Larsen and JWill and Tillie to make their mark!

CDC84
04-11-2017, 05:34 PM
The problem is that it could have been 2.44 million per year and a 100 million dollar shoe contract and more endorsements due to being a first team AA and a known entity like Blake Griffin was coming out of college. Trust me, this is a move that some TRUE NBA scouts don't think is a good one, but maybe he's found one team that is a believer. But guarantees are not legally binding. Some kids have gotten screwed by broken promises.

There are simply not many examples of one and done players who have turned into NBA all star/multi-NBA championship material players without being a great college player first. And Zach never learned to be a great college player first. I feel Zach could've been that all star level player, but I possess little confidence in it happening now. Better than DeAndre Jordan, better than Devin Booker. I hope I am wrong, and that he breaks the pattern.

But sometimes there are other people who make themselves too much a part of the decision making process instead of letting the process work as it should and as it has perfectly worked for many legendary players over the years.

MDABE80
04-11-2017, 05:35 PM
50 n- 50 from the beginning. He chose the 50% he wanted. I still say he could benefit from another year for lots of reasons. We'll be glad to have had him. I doubt he's going to be an earth shattering rookie. Maybe in time. We'll find someone who's a great replacement. It's not like our shelves are empty. We won't begin the season as a no 1. So what? Few's got his work cut out for him. Save this schollie for a killer player.
Has there ever been a player who's worse for an additional year? I don't remember one. I do know several who benefit from another year though.

Truth be known. Z Bo didn't have a monster frosh year. He showed some nice promise to go with an above average 1st year. Kids like Fultz had an amazing year. Same with Ball. I hope Collins does well in the pro's. Somebody along the way must have promised him a lottery position. Best wishes.

zag944
04-11-2017, 05:43 PM
I don't see how anyone could say one and done players aren't great for the program when we just had our first one and made our first Final Four in the same season. These were not two unrelated occurrences.

CDC84
04-11-2017, 05:50 PM
For the record, I don't feel this is disastrous for the program. I just want the player to be great before he goes. And Zach could never stay in the game long enough to be great, but he certainly played a big factor in GU making the final four. He is to be praised for that.

Birddog
04-11-2017, 05:53 PM
For the record, I don't feel this is disastrous for the program. I just want the player to be great before he goes. And Zach could never stay in the game long enough to be great, but he certainly played a big factor in GU making the final four. He is to be praised for that.

I think you hit the nail pretty good.

MontanaCoyote
04-11-2017, 05:56 PM
Have to wish him the best while hoping he changes his mind (if that's still possible)

I'm an old timer and in lots of ways "I believe in yesterday." I know big money changes everything,
So I'm not blind. But sometimes in situations like this I find myself thinking " why such a big hurry?"

Kindergarten? Not early enough. Only pre school will do! High school in 4 years? Not fast enough. Finish in 3. Same with college. Chevy? Nope. Gotta be a Beamer. Pay your dues? Nope. Right to the top! Invest for the long term? No way. Invest for day after tomorrow. 2,000 sq. feet? How about 3,000 +?

Enough already. Apologies.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 05:58 PM
The problem is that it could have been 2.44 million per year and a 100 million dollar shoe contract and more endorsements due to being a first team AA and a known entity like Blake Griffin was coming out of college. Trust me, this is a move that a lot of NBA scouts don't think is a good one, but maybe he's found one team that is a believer. But guarantees are not legally binding. Some kids have gotten screwed.

There are simply not many examples of one and done players who have turned into NBA all star/multi-NBA championship material players without being a great college player first. And Zach never learned to be a great college player first. I feel Zach could've been that all star level player, but I possess little confidence in it happening now. Better than DeAndre Jordan, better than Devin Booker. I hope I am wrong, and that he breaks the pattern.

But sometimes other people make these decisions for the prospects. Wish it wasn't that way.

Jeff Goodman's piece tells me what I need to hear. If even one NBA exec wants this kid at 8, then he's gone. But it won't be one of those things where the rest of the environment and chess moves of other league exec's changes that. He doesn't have to leave, and won't, leave without some type of guarantee.

Zach and his family are actually quite savvy. As far as your perception of him, his offense is far advanced to that of DeAndre Jordan's. We've already covered that his foul trouble isn't as terrible as is made out to be (you can argue that his foul distribution is much tighter or grouped in a more detrimental way, and if the numbers bear that, I will concede that point). But at 8.8 per 100, i didn't hear people clamoring that KAT wasn't NBA ready because of foul trouble. And weight/muscle/strength ? That can be added in an offseason, just as fast (and in some circumstances faster) as it can at GU (probably faster).

There are veteran forwards that cannot block shots the way he can, and I actually think his style might just be suited a bit more for the pro game, where the physicality doesn't always get the whistle.

We're also talking about a kid who played patiently behind two McD's AA's, became one himself, and then went with the program when his chance to start became minutes off the bench. He's humble, hungry, teachable, and talented. There aren't many with that combination AND the talent to go with the athleticism.

If he has a promise that he is going Top 8 or higher, I just won't personally tell him to stay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MickMick
04-11-2017, 06:02 PM
Next man up.

Excited to see Larsen. He may stick around for awhile and that isn't necessarily bad.

Hoopaholic
04-11-2017, 06:03 PM
Have to wish him the best while hoping he changes his mind (if that's still possible)

I'm an old timer and in lots of ways "I believe in yesterday." I know big money changes everything,
So I'm not blind. But sometimes in situations like this I find myself thinking " why such a big hurry?"

Kindergarten? Not early enough. Only pre school will do! High school in 4 years? Not fast enough. Finish in 3. Same with college. Chevy? Nope. Gotta be a Beamer. Pay your dues? Nope. Right to the top! Invest for the long term? No way. Invest for day after tomorrow. 2,000 sq. feet? How about 3,000 +?

Enough already. Apologies.

We are old

jazzdelmar
04-11-2017, 06:05 PM
Jeff Goodman's piece tells me what I need to hear. If even one NBA exec wants this kid at 8, then he's gone. But it won't be one of those things where the rest of the environment and chess moves of other league exec's changes that. He doesn't have to leave, and won't, leave without some type of guarantee.

Zach and his family are actually quite savvy. As far as your perception of him, his offense is far advanced to that of DeAndre Jordan's. We've already covered that his foul trouble isn't as terrible as is made out to be (you can argue that his foul distribution is much tighter or grouped in a more detrimental way, and if the numbers bear that, I will concede that point). But at 8.8 per 100, i didn't hear people clamoring that KAT wasn't NBA ready because of foul trouble. And weight/muscle/strength ? That can be added in an offseason, just as fast (and in some circumstances faster) as it can at GU (probably faster).

There are veteran forwards that cannot block shots the way he can, and I actually think his style might just be suited a bit more for the pro game, where the physicality doesn't always get the whistle.

We're also talking about a kid who played patiently behind two McD's AA's, became one himself, and then went with the program when his chance to start became minutes off the bench. He's humble, hungry, teachable, and talented. There aren't many with that combination AND the talent to go with the athleticism.

If he has a promise that he is going Top 8 or higher, I just won't personally tell him to stay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perfect Coach.

gonzagafan62
04-11-2017, 06:11 PM
For the record, I don't feel this is disastrous for the program. I just want the player to be great before he goes. And Zach could never stay in the game long enough to be great, but he certainly played a big factor in GU making the final four. He is to be praised for that.

I agree.

I think this could turn out really well for Gonzaga or it could turn into not really helping at all.

What I'm more worried about is zachs future. Not many players stay in league very long. Is it worth it to go now instead of next year? Many variables to consider... possible injuries at Gonzaga and also turning into the best player we've ever had. It just makes me curious at his decision not because of fouls (I think Few told him to play aggressive.) I think only having one year of school at only 16 mins a game limits his potential in first few years but the good news is if he survives that he may have a real shot.

btzag
04-11-2017, 06:13 PM
Jeff Goodman's piece tells me what I need to hear. If even one NBA exec wants this kid at 8, then he's gone. But it won't be one of those things where the rest of the environment and chess moves of other league exec's changes that. He doesn't have to leave, and won't, leave without some type of guarantee.

Zach and his family are actually quite savvy. As far as your perception of him, his offense is far advanced to that of DeAndre Jordan's. We've already covered that his foul trouble isn't as terrible as is made out to be (you can argue that his foul distribution is much tighter or grouped in a more detrimental way, and if the numbers bear that, I will concede that point). But at 8.8 per 100, i didn't hear people clamoring that KAT wasn't NBA ready because of foul trouble. And weight/muscle/strength ? That can be added in an offseason, just as fast (and in some circumstances faster) as it can at GU (probably faster).

There are veteran forwards that cannot block shots the way he can, and I actually think his style might just be suited a bit more for the pro game, where the physicality doesn't always get the whistle.

We're also talking about a kid who played patiently behind two McD's AA's, became one himself, and then went with the program when his chance to start became minutes off the bench. He's humble, hungry, teachable, and talented. There aren't many with that combination AND the talent to go with the athleticism.

If he has a promise that he is going Top 8 or higher, I just won't personally tell him to stay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like ZC's potential but he got beat soundly by Mika and Landale this year in his opportunities vs top level college bigs. Next year it's Cousins, Towns, Gasol, Gortat, etc.

Remember Daye was a lottery pick as well as Meyers Leonard as well as Anthony Bennett....and we could go on and on and on. If you are not ready for pros but you are guaranteed a lottery pick you are doing it based on money. Can't blame him for that but that's what it is. I am with CDC in that he should make the smart move from a development standpoint and dominate college, develop and be ready to go against NBA bigs, grow his name and brand nationally and be a top 5 pick next year!

Zag365
04-11-2017, 06:17 PM
Happy for Zach. I'm sure he's got plenty of people in his corner looking out for his interests and giving him good advice. The fact that the University had a press release ready to go before any rumors got out in public tells me that this has been carefully discussed behind the scenes and that Zach is not only handling in GU's best interests but probably had some good talks with the coaches so they could provide feedback and start thinking about how to fill his scholarship.

We can all speculate as to how the draft and next year will go for him, but I find it hard to second-guess, especially when you consider potential injuries and the fact that he got lots of attention and favorably reviews in the NCAA tourney. His stock seems high. Plus he's got definite upside.

Good players want to move on to the pro's. Some get there sooner than others. The fact that Zach chose GU and was a positive force all year in skill and attitude (even though Shem's dramatic return took him out of a starter's role) tells me that he's grounded and will be fine.

Meanwhile this opens up other opportunities for returning players and potential recruits/transfer. It should be a fun to see the pieces come together. Coach Few and staff have shown great ability to deal with turnover. We'll be fine. We'll be favored to win the WCC, keep the streak going, and be relevant in the NCAA. It's a good time to be a Zag.

MontanaCoyote
04-11-2017, 06:18 PM
We are old

I don't feel old, I just think old. Appreciate the "We."

Zagceo
04-11-2017, 06:20 PM
Jeff Goodman's piece tells me what I need to hear. If even one NBA exec wants this kid at 8, then he's gone. But it won't be one of those things where the rest of the environment and chess moves of other league exec's changes that. He doesn't have to leave, and won't, leave without some type of guarantee.

Zach and his family are actually quite savvy. As far as your perception of him, his offense is far advanced to that of DeAndre Jordan's. We've already covered that his foul trouble isn't as terrible as is made out to be (you can argue that his foul distribution is much tighter or grouped in a more detrimental way, and if the numbers bear that, I will concede that point). But at 8.8 per 100, i didn't hear people clamoring that KAT wasn't NBA ready because of foul trouble. And weight/muscle/strength ? That can be added in an offseason, just as fast (and in some circumstances faster) as it can at GU (probably faster).

There are veteran forwards that cannot block shots the way he can, and I actually think his style might just be suited a bit more for the pro game, where the physicality doesn't always get the whistle.

We're also talking about a kid who played patiently behind two McD's AA's, became one himself, and then went with the program when his chance to start became minutes off the bench. He's humble, hungry, teachable, and talented. There aren't many with that combination AND the talent to go with the athleticism.

If he has a promise that he is going Top 8 or higher, I just won't personally tell him to stay.

Well said Coach.

Zach delivered on his desire to bring Few his first final four......... now some feel abandoned because some company is gonna pay him millions. Its a win win situation as far as I'm concerned.

zagfan24
04-11-2017, 06:23 PM
I'd be fascinated (and wish I had the time to explore) the economics of the one and done. I'd be curious to see if, on average and factoring out other variables, it has an effect on the size of the 2nd contract. In time, it will be interesting to see if guys play more years due to leaving early (i.e., being younger) or whether the grind of an NBA season breaks down their bodies in just as many years (but at a younger age).

Rbo
04-11-2017, 06:30 PM
The NBA draft system is broken. My advice: let high school seniors go straight to the NBA if they have the skills (or dare), otherwise, if they sign with a college they have to play at least 2 (3 would be ideal) years. This would dramatically help both the NCAA and NBA products.

gonzagafan62
04-11-2017, 06:35 PM
The NBA draft system is broken. My advice: let high school seniors go straight to the NBA if they have the skills (or dare), otherwise, if they sign with a college they have to play at least 2 (3 would be ideal) years. This would dramatically help both the NCAA and NBA products.

Yup

seacatfan
04-11-2017, 06:43 PM
Without thinking very hard at all, I came up w/ a handful of guys that were far from great during their one year of college and went on to do quite well in the NBA:

DeAndre Jordan
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams
DeMar Derozan
Jrue Holiday

That's just off the top of my head. Other guys like Love and Westbrook were good in college but exploded as pros and became much, much better players after college. This notion of not being ready and players not developing once they leave college is kind of ridiculous. It sounds like some sour grapes to me. Now Gonzaga is finally dealing w/ what most of the college basketball world has been dealing with for years and some of you guys don't like it. Too bad. Maybe Few and company should quit recruiting guys w/ NBA potential, then they won't have to worry about early entrants to the draft. Might not get deep runs in the Tourney on a regular basis either though.

Zagceo
04-11-2017, 06:46 PM
Devin Booker

ZagLawGrad
04-11-2017, 06:49 PM
The NBA game sucks.

Bring back Bird and Magic.

northsidezagfan
04-11-2017, 06:57 PM
Without thinking very hard at all, I came up w/ a handful of guys that were far from great during their one year of college and went on to do quite well in the NBA:

DeAndre Jordan
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams
DeMar Derozan
Jrue Holiday

That's just off the top of my head. Other guys like Love and Westbrook were good in college but exploded as pros and became much, much better players after college. This notion of not being ready and players not developing once they leave college is kind of ridiculous. It sounds like some sour grapes to me. Now Gonzaga is finally dealing w/ what most of the college basketball world has been dealing with for years and some of you guys don't like it. Too bad. Maybe Few and company should quit recruiting guys w/ NBA potential, then they won't have to worry about early entrants to the draft. Might not get deep runs in the Tourney on a regular basis either though.

Agree with this. Congrats to Zach, huge accomplishment.

Zagceo
04-11-2017, 06:58 PM
Collins didn’t return a phone message. His father, Mike, said he’s vetted four agents and the family hopes to finalize a decision in the next two weeks. Signing with an agent eliminates the possibility of returning to school.
“He’s listed anywhere from eight to 20 (in the first round in mock drafts) and almost nobody else in America stays when that’s the case,” Mike said. “You go when the league wants you to go. He’s following his dream and his wishes.”

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/apr/11/gonzagas-zach-collins-declares-for-nba-draft-inten/

23dpg
04-11-2017, 07:03 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/apr/11/gonzagas-zach-collins-declares-for-nba-draft-inten/

Wow, there are a ton of people who know very little about basketball and the NBA draft in the S/R comments sections. The negativity towards Zach is a little unnerving. I'm glad it's better on here.

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 07:03 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/apr/11/gonzagas-zach-collins-declares-for-nba-draft-inten/

Lets hope Mike doesnt rely solely on Mock Draft and actually talks to some NBA execs

JPtheBeasta
04-11-2017, 07:04 PM
Good luck To Zach. While I selfishly wish he had stuck around longer, he was a major contributor to the Zags first final 4 run, and were it not for a few bad calls, may have led the Zags to a title. If you only stay one year, that's a hell of a year.

Pretty much sums up my view. That 6th foul in the NBA will serve him well ;)

CdAZagFan
04-11-2017, 07:11 PM
It was a great run, Zach.... Good luck in the future. What an incredible opportunity for this young man...

btzag
04-11-2017, 07:19 PM
Without thinking very hard at all, I came up w/ a handful of guys that were far from great during their one year of college and went on to do quite well in the NBA:

DeAndre Jordan
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams
DeMar Derozan
Jrue Holiday

That's just off the top of my head. Other guys like Love and Westbrook were good in college but exploded as pros and became much, much better players after college. This notion of not being ready and players not developing once they leave college is kind of ridiculous. It sounds like some sour grapes to me. Now Gonzaga is finally dealing w/ what most of the college basketball world has been dealing with for years and some of you guys don't like it. Too bad. Maybe Few and company should quit recruiting guys w/ NBA potential, then they won't have to worry about early entrants to the draft. Might not get deep runs in the Tourney on a regular basis either though.

It's just a difference of opinion seacat. I understand the jump to the NBA as soon as possible argument. I could also list countless busts without trying very hard. This doesn't mean every one and done is going to be a bust OR that every one and done is a success.

I guarantee he is going to make millions next year. This is good. I firmly believe he would have developed better as a basketball player starting for the zags next year compared to coming off the bench for an NBA team. I think his better long-term earning potential would have been better served developing his bb game and brand next year on the college level but again I can understand the allure of a million or two waiting for you next year.

zagfan1
04-11-2017, 07:23 PM
Good for Zach and wish him the best!

basketballzag
04-11-2017, 07:27 PM
Lets hope Mike doesnt rely solely on Mock Draft and actually talks to some NBA execs


Highly unlikely. I don't blame Zach one bit for leaving and signing with an agent because it was never Zach's decision in the first place. Best of luck to him in the league because he is really going to need it next year. I'm sure his father is consulting with the best person he knows on this--himself.

CDC84
04-11-2017, 07:27 PM
Without thinking very hard at all, I came up w/ a handful of guys that were far from great during their one year of college and went on to do quite well in the NBA:

DeAndre Jordan
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams
DeMar Derozan
Jrue Holiday

That's just off the top of my head. Other guys like Love and Westbrook were good in college but exploded as pros and became much, much better players after college. This notion of not being ready and players not developing once they leave college is kind of ridiculous. It sounds like some sour grapes to me. Now Gonzaga is finally dealing w/ what most of the college basketball world has been dealing with for years and some of you guys don't like it. Too bad. Maybe Few and company should quit recruiting guys w/ NBA potential, then they won't have to worry about early entrants to the draft. Might not get deep runs in the Tourney on a regular basis either though.

I am talking great players. Not just having a career. Multiple all star games. Multiple NBA titles. Zach had that potential. May still (I hope). I actually have a higher view of his potential as a player than many people, but I don't trust the NBA - as I never do - to bring it out of him. It's about the games and the games only when you're in the NBA. I personally know players - including one from this program - that lost his career through understanding this the hard way. You better go when you're dang ready.

Seacat = there are some things about Zach's case that you don't know about that I won't get into because it is not meant for public consumption. If you want to call me a sour grapes, go ahead. but I have been adamant all year that he wasn't ready. I never wavered from this.

FWIW - I was 100% behind Sabonis going pro. 100% percent. But that was because I felt he was ready, and that the 2017 draft would push him back. He went at the right time, even though he struggles sometimes at OKC. He was great tonight, BTW.

But this is not a choice I can support because it's not in the best interest of the kid. I HOPE that I am wrong.

ZagsGoZags
04-11-2017, 07:28 PM
We love you Zach, and you will always be a great Zag. Your enthusiasm for this program was impressive from the get-go. You are doing what you are supposed to do, meet your needs in the best way you know how, while respectful to others. We are doing what we need to do, meet our needs in the best way we can while being respectful to you. By saying you will seek an agent, it does not drag us out in a lot of Spring uncertainty. Thank you for that, it is good for us too. You have made your decision and we support you in your future endeavor.

ZagaZags
04-11-2017, 07:43 PM
Highly unlikely. I don't blame Zach one bit for leaving and signing with an agent because it was never Zach's decision in the first place. Best of luck to him in the league because he is really going to need it next year. I'm sure his father is consulting with the best person he knows on this--himself.

+1,000

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5093560065_88b8355686.jpg

Zagceo
04-11-2017, 07:54 PM
Highly unlikely. I don't blame Zach one bit for leaving and signing with an agent because it was never Zach's decision in the first place. Best of luck to him in the league because he is really going to need it next year. I'm sure his father is consulting with the best person he knows on this--himself.

"best of luck" hardly......wanna throw anymore parents under the bus while you're at it.

TheZagPhish
04-11-2017, 07:57 PM
Congratulations, Zach!

DixieZag
04-11-2017, 07:58 PM
Absolutely wish the best for him, absolutely thank him for the role he played this year, we wouldn't have made the FF w/o him. That I don't doubt.

I have no idea if he'll be a good pro early, I don't know enough about it.

What does strike me as kind of absurd, is the idea that this somehow really will pay big dividend to the program going forward and we'll get far more one and dones, or 5 stars.

Making the Final Four does far more to keep a reliable incoming class of 4 and maybe 5 stars. But, even that won't be an overnight, dramatic thing and I'm not sold on it helping a program in a huge way anyway..

There are just a set number of kids at his level, a limited set of AA. Some, probably most, will never consider us, even if we're in the FF 3x in 5 years. They're going to UCLA, or Duke, or UNC, or Texas, or whatever. They're not going to a small Jesuit school in Spokane, and that's that.

Someone said "the Collins family is very savy." Absolutely. They recognized what the development here could do, even if they didn't plan on coming off the bench. They did know the development that would happen, and it did. And he got a FF out of it. Savy indeed. Most families aren't at that level.


I predict this, though. The next great underrated 7'0 coming out of Europe will think of us more, even differently, than might not have happened before Sabonis and Collins, and that's a good thing, too.

thespywhozaggedme
04-11-2017, 07:59 PM
I am talking great players. Not just having a career. Multiple all star games. Multiple NBA titles. Zach had that potential. May still (I hope). I actually have a higher view of his potential as a player than many people, but I don't trust the NBA - as I never do - to bring it out of him. It's about the games and the games only when you're in the NBA. I personally know players - including one from this program - that lost his career through understanding this the hard way. You better go when you're dang ready.

Seacat = there are some things about Zach's case that you don't know about that I won't get into because it is not meant for public consumption. If you want to call me a sour grapes, go ahead. but I have been adamant all year that he wasn't ready. I never wavered from this.

FWIW - I was 100% behind Sabonis going pro. 100% percent. But that was because I felt he was ready, and that the 2017 draft would push him back. He went at the right time, even though he struggles sometimes at OKC. He was great tonight, BTW.

But this is not a choice I can support because it's not in the best interest of the kid. I HOPE that I am wrong.

Multiple NBA titles? Holy cow why don't you set the bar a little higher, talk about unrealistic expectations. You sound like a jilted lover; again it's not about us it's about him. Just be happy for him and let it go.

realtydog
04-11-2017, 08:00 PM
"best of luck" hardly......wanna throw anymore parents under the bus while you're at it.

thank you! about time someone stood up for LaVar.......errrr Mike

CDC84
04-11-2017, 08:02 PM
It's not about him Spy. That's the issue. You don't understand.

I have seen this happen too many times Spy, and I know more about his situation than you. I have Kleenex right now. It's not a happy time for me. I won't let it go. Sorry. I care about Zach's future. That's it, no more.

uZiGiZaG
04-11-2017, 08:02 PM
You forgot to blame Few.

So estatic that I left a lasting impression on you. Proud moment. Thanks!

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 08:12 PM
Highly unlikely. I don't blame Zach one bit for leaving and signing with an agent because it was never Zach's decision in the first place. Best of luck to him in the league because he is really going to need it next year. I'm sure his father is consulting with the best person he knows on this--himself.

This take is unfortunate.

Goshzagit
04-11-2017, 08:12 PM
Don't get me started on Mike Collins...but he produced a tremendous talent and young man.

Congrats to Zach. Terrific opportunity awaits him. He will be missed.

Was excited to see him become a Superstar and selfishly wanted to see what he could do playing significant mins. Would have been fun, but alas, wasn't meant to be...

Make us proud and good luck "Z Bo".

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:15 PM
What is the forums thoughts on NWG's father? Are those hot takes ready to be unleashed too?

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 08:18 PM
Don't get me started on Mike Collins...but he produced a tremendous talent and young man.

Congrats to Zach. Terrific opportunity awaits him. He will be missed.

Was excited to see him become a Superstar and see what he could do playing significant mins. Would have been fun, but alas, wasn't meant to be...

Make us proud and good luck "Z Bo".

Yeah, let's talk trash about parents. That's a great idea. If Mike is as much of a control freak/helicopter dad as some are seeming to let on...then you should be thanking him for sending his kid to GU. Sometimes these narratives get so contradictory. He isn't LaVar Ball. You may not like the way he is behind closed doors, but seriously...bad move to start outing people so publicly. Not a good look for the program. Especially with the program trying to make advances in recruiting.

I have no problem with people being critical of a decision. By all means, go ahead. But make sure that it doesn't cross over into derision. At that point, we're hurting the brand and the kid.

ZagaZags
04-11-2017, 08:19 PM
What is the forums thoughts on NWG's father? Are those hot takes ready to be unleashed too?

Silly question. What the heck, I'll play. NWG has an outstanding family. You asked, I answered.

Goshzagit
04-11-2017, 08:21 PM
This take is unfortunate.

So is this take:


“He’s listed anywhere from eight to 20 (in the first round in mock drafts) and almost nobody else in America stays when that’s the case,” Mike said.

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:22 PM
Silly question. What the heck, I'll play. NWG has an outstanding family. You asked, I answered.

I agree, but the forum seems to have its opinion on Collins' dad... just wanted to get opinions for when Nigel declares next in case we folks follow suit.

basketballzag
04-11-2017, 08:24 PM
Silly question. What the heck, I'll play. NWG has an outstanding family. You asked, I answered.

NWG has an incredible and very supportive family. If NWG signed with an agent tonight I would not be upset at all. Nigel's father should be very proud of the man he has raised.

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:24 PM
So is this take:

I think the best take is the one i offered----

Let's just hope Mike is doing more than looking at draftexpress.com and nbadraft.net

If he isnt, that is unfortunate.. but not sure we need to be attacking his character. If you are going to blame him for Zachs decision to enter the NBA.. wouldnt it have been his decision to send Zach to GU as well?

ZagaZags
04-11-2017, 08:24 PM
NWG has an incredible and very supportive family. If NWG signed with an agent tonight I would not be upset at all. Nigel's father should be very proud of the man he has raised.

+1
And he graduated.

basketballzag
04-11-2017, 08:24 PM
I agree, but the forum seems to have its opinion on Collins' dad... just wanted to get opinions for when Nigel declares next in case we folks follow suit.

Apples to Oranges comparison.

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:27 PM
+1
And he graduated.

Some of you dudes must be 90 years old... "and he graduated"... this isnt 1950... guys leave early. Guys that are projected lottery picks leave early. I think he could use another year of development, but man if i was 18 and someone offered me a few million bucks i would say sayonara to my graduation plans as well. We can praise the kids that graduate, but dont demean the ones who dont who have the opportunity to make millions...

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 08:28 PM
So is this take:

Remember when I told people not to use DX as gospel? Remember when I said that people should essentially learn about Synergy and other advanced stats? That they'd help you evaluate better. All that crap about "Well Zach isn't even on John's list, so it can't be true". Blah. If more people would get into some of these metrics...then we'd have people who are a whole lot less surprised, and able to deal with whatever reality hits.

But surely, none of this can be right...because John the Great doth not proclaim it upon yonder interweb. If Zach is getting a promise of being taken #8 or higher...take it.

DixieZag
04-11-2017, 08:30 PM
NWG has an incredible and very supportive family. If NWG signed with an agent tonight I would not be upset at all. Nigel's father should be very proud of the man he has raised.

Not just that, does anyone here think that NWG isn't the exclusive one planning his future? He could have the worst family, Nigel is doing the driving, and maybe that's different.

Maybe Zach 100% made the decision, maybe Dad leaned hard. We don't know. What we know is that Nigel thinks for Nigel, and that takes everything else off the table.

I'm sure you're right, though. Nigel likely has the best type of family, kids like that don't just stumble their way into that kind of maturity.

cjm720
04-11-2017, 08:31 PM
Once a Zag, always a Zag!

DixieZag
04-11-2017, 08:32 PM
Remember when I told people not to use DX as gospel? Remember when I said that people should essentially learn about Synergy and other advanced stats? That they'd help you evaluate better. All that crap about "Well Zach isn't even on John's list, so it can't be true". Blah. If more people would get into some of these metrics...then we'd have people who are a whole lot less surprised, and able to deal with whatever reality hits.

But surely, none of this can be right...because John the Great doth not proclaim it upon yonder interweb. If Zach is getting a promise of being taken #8 or higher...take it.

I suspect there are 25-30 kids walking around with assurances they'll be top 10. :)

ZagaZags
04-11-2017, 08:34 PM
Some of you dudes must be 90 years old... "and he graduated"... this isnt 1950... guys leave early. Guys that are projected lottery picks leave early. I think he could use another year of development, but man if i was 18 and someone offered me a few million bucks i would say sayonara to my graduation plans as well. We can praise the kids that graduate, but dont demean the ones who dont who have the opportunity to make millions...

I guess you missed my point. NWG has pretty much done it all at the NCAA level. It's probably time to get a paycheck, Nigel turns 23 in September.

gonzagafan62
04-11-2017, 08:34 PM
Some of you dudes must be 90 years old... "and he graduated"... this isnt 1950... guys leave early. Guys that are projected lottery picks leave early. I think he could use another year of development, but man if i was 18 and someone offered me a few million bucks i would say sayonara to my graduation plans as well. We can praise the kids that graduate, but dont demean the ones who dont who have the opportunity to make millions...

I don't think anyone is demeaning anyone here. Most of the sane people here will thank Collins for what he did this season. And be proud of it too. Just like we were with sabonis. However being a family we often look out for these kids and might criticize these kids like they are our own children. This doesn't mean we are going to hate them or stop loving them all it means is that we are listing our own advice here on what we'd do (not that anyone cares about our own advice besides ourselves.)

I hope he does well. I truly do. But in my opinion (again nobody cares but) he should've stayed. Would've helped his NBA percentages of staying in league longer IMO. Could be wrong though.

dhozagfan08
04-11-2017, 08:35 PM
I think I'm missing something, doesn't the draft order not get set until after the lottery occurs, which is after the regular season? How can his dad say that he could go as high as 8? What is that based on?

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:35 PM
I guess you missed my point. NWG has pretty much done it all at the NCAA level. It's probably time to get a paycheck, Nigel turns 23 in September.

Im already on record saying NWG will go. I'll be shocked if he returns

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:36 PM
I think I'm missing something, doesn't the draft order not get set until after the lottery occurs, which is after the regular season? How can his dad say that he could go as high as 8? What is that based on?

It sounds based on his quote he is basing that off Mock drafts like draftexpress.com and nbadraft.net

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 08:37 PM
Some of you dudes must be 90 years old... "and he graduated"... this isnt 1950... guys leave early. Guys that are projected lottery picks leave early. I think he could use another year of development, but man if i was 18 and someone offered me a few million bucks i would say sayonara to my graduation plans as well. We can praise the kids that graduate, but dont demean the ones who dont who have the opportunity to make millions...

Not to mention they can *still finish their education*. Funny that on Mac's and PC's we post negatively about those who do not graduate. Yet the titan's that are most responsible for these specific machine's dropped out to follow their dreams...

Goshzagit
04-11-2017, 08:37 PM
Remember when I told people not to use DX as gospel? Remember when I said that people should essentially learn about Synergy and other advanced stats? That they'd help you evaluate better. All that crap about "Well Zach isn't even on John's list, so it can't be true". Blah. If more people would get into some of these metrics...then we'd have people who are a whole lot less surprised, and able to deal with whatever reality hits.

But surely, none of this can be right...because John the Great doth not proclaim it upon yonder interweb. If Zach is getting a promise of being taken #8 or higher...take it.

Agreed.

dhozagfan08
04-11-2017, 08:38 PM
No way, please tell me they are not hiring an agent based on Internet projections. They have to be going off of more than that.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 08:39 PM
It sounds based on his quote he is basing that off Mock drafts like draftexpress.com and nbadraft.net

Based on what we have heard from Goodman, and what I have heard, he's very likely getting information from NBA Exec's.

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:40 PM
No way, please tell me they are not hiring an agent based on Internet projections. They have to be going off of more than that.

probably... just saying that his 8 to 20 range was based on mock drafts.

deathchina
04-11-2017, 08:40 PM
I think some of the people most shocked and disappointed by Zach leaving bought in a little too much to the "zag way" narrative. For years zag fans have scoffed at "factory schools" and their one and dones, and told themselves that we are different and special and immune to the one and done. In reality, we just didn't have any kids talented enough to make the jump after a year.

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:41 PM
Based on what we have heard from Goodman, and what I have heard, he's very likely getting information from NBA Exec's.


I saw goodman's tweet as well.. was just referring to Mike's comment where he referred to "mock drafts"... which seems odd. Youd think he would reference NBA exec's

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 08:41 PM
I think some of the people most shocked and disappointed by Zach leaving bought in a little too much to the "zag way" narrative. For years zag fans have scoffed at "factory schools" and their one and dones, and told themselves that we are different and special and immune to the one and done. In reality, we just didn't have any kids talented enough to make the jump after a year.

^^^^^^^

dhozagfan08
04-11-2017, 08:43 PM
Based on what we have heard from Goodman, and what I have heard, he's very likely getting information from NBA Exec's.

Wouldn't they have to get get assurances from many different teams? If a team says they will take him with their pick if they are 8th or worse, and they get the number 1 pick, that goes out the window, right? How can you make this decision at this point? I could support the decision after getting all the necessary info, but this seems premature.

zag944
04-11-2017, 08:44 PM
I think I'm missing something, doesn't the draft order not get set until after the lottery occurs, which is after the regular season? How can his dad say that he could go as high as 8? What is that based on?

Lottery only selects top 3, the rest are slotted by w-l record. The 8th team has like a 10% chance of jumping into top 3, 75% chance of staying at 8, 15% chance of falling spots due to a leap frog situation. more likely you stay in your spot the further down you go. Think everything 15 on just goes by season record....playoff finish may factor in too. The alleged Collins range is mostly set.

dhozagfan08
04-11-2017, 08:45 PM
Lottery only selects top 3, the rest are slotted by w-l record. The 8th team has like a 10% chance of jumping into top 3, 75% chance of staying at at 15% chance of falling spots due to a leap frog situation. more likely you stay in your spot the further down you go. Think everything 15 on just goes by season record....playoff finish may factor in too.

Thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense.

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 08:46 PM
Agreed.

Don't get me wrong...if Mike is really making this some vicarious indulgence on his part, then he needs to rethink his approach. Because that *is* inappropriate. And it sounds like some of you have personal knowledge that I do not.

Granted, people may not have known that Mike was like this before Zach got here. So, it's not necessarily contradictory to be upset with Mike being that way now...even though he may have been the reason Zach was here. I won't accuse people of that without knowing what they might have known. I take that back. But if Mike is indeed the way some say, you have to take the bad with the good if you want Zach in a Zag uni.

My bad, guys. I'm letting the my frustration get the best of me.

deathchina
04-11-2017, 08:47 PM
Also, the idea that you don't improve your game in the NBA is silly. If that was the case, teams wouldn't draft so much on potential. What good is all that potential if NBA teams can't or won't develop it!?!?!?

Coach Crazy
04-11-2017, 08:47 PM
I think some of the people most shocked and disappointed by Zach leaving bought in a little too much to the "zag way" narrative. For years zag fans have scoffed at "factory schools" and their one and dones, and told themselves that we are different and special and immune to the one and done. In reality, we just didn't have any kids talented enough to make the jump after a year.

Money.

zag944
04-11-2017, 08:57 PM
Wouldn't they have to get get assurances from many different teams? If a team says they will take him with their pick if they are 8th or worse, and they get the number 1 pick, that goes out the window, right? How can you make this decision at this point? I could support the decision after getting all the necessary info, but this seems premature.

and then even if said teams don't win the lottery, one doesn't know who might fall, what offer a team might throw at another for a draft pick, etc. Not to mention they haven't even gone through the combine and other processes yet. I think he will be fine on draft day...but I also don't think he's gotten any assurances...and if he had it isn't something I'd put a done of value in at this point.

basketballzag
04-11-2017, 08:58 PM
I saw goodman's tweet as well.. was just referring to Mike's comment where he referred to "mock drafts"... which seems odd. Youd think he would reference NBA exec's

It doesn't sound like the Coaching staff supported the decision to sign with an agent at all based on this quote from Zach's father.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9LtuDIVwAAqA54.jpg

http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/35127398/gonzagas-zach-collins-declares-for-nba-draft

ZagaZags
04-11-2017, 09:02 PM
It doesn't sound like the Coaching staff supported the decision to sign with an agent at all based on this quote from Zach's father.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9LtuDIVwAAqA54.jpg

http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/35127398/gonzagas-zach-collins-declares-for-nba-draft

Someone even had the best seats in the house for the Final Four. Practically on the bench.

zagdontzig
04-11-2017, 09:04 PM
Based on what we have heard from Goodman, and what I have heard, he's very likely getting information from NBA Exec's.

Goodman's article said NBA execs are saying between 8 and 20 over all. He and is family are enlightened.

zagsfanforlife
04-11-2017, 09:05 PM
It doesn't sound like the Coaching staff supported the decision to sign with an agent at all based on this quote from Zach's father.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9LtuDIVwAAqA54.jpg

http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/35127398/gonzagas-zach-collins-declares-for-nba-draft

That doesnt sound good!

basketballzag
04-11-2017, 09:09 PM
Not a lot of congratulatory feelings by the other members on the team either on social media.

JIMMYMACINCDA
04-11-2017, 09:16 PM
I'm pumped for Zach. Able to live out his dream. how many of you can honestly say you would return especially after witnessing Shem nearly sidelined forever with an injury? An injury could wipe it all out in a blink of an eye. Doesn't that have to factor into the equation for these young men?

Zags11
04-11-2017, 09:20 PM
Wasn't he under 30%?

Zags11
04-11-2017, 09:24 PM
Not a lot of congratulatory feelings by the other members on the team either on social media.

Links? I wouldn't be either.

Zagricultural
04-11-2017, 09:31 PM
Without thinking very hard at all, I came up w/ a handful of guys that were far from great during their one year of college and went on to do quite well in the NBA:

DeAndre Jordan
Andre Drummond
Steven Adams
DeMar Derozan
Jrue Holiday

That's just off the top of my head. Other guys like Love and Westbrook were good in college but exploded as pros and became much, much better players after college. This notion of not being ready and players not developing once they leave college is kind of ridiculous. It sounds like some sour grapes to me. Now Gonzaga is finally dealing w/ what most of the college basketball world has been dealing with for years and some of you guys don't like it. Too bad. Maybe Few and company should quit recruiting guys w/ NBA potential, then they won't have to worry about early entrants to the draft. Might not get deep runs in the Tourney on a regular basis either though.

The issue I see with this logic is that Zach struggled so much with foul trouble, and never had to learn to play more than twenty minutes a game. Next year would've really helped him in that respect.

zagdontzig
04-11-2017, 09:44 PM
What is it these kids owe us that makes you trash them and question their motives or potential? ESPN reports NBA execs are telling him he is firmly a first round pick, and potentially lottery, and y'all act like he cheated on you with another guy. And for people questioning whether Sabonis is having a good year, it's fitting that he's putting up 20 and 10 tonight.

Collins was a great Zag. Sabonis was a great Zag. Quit writing emotional diatribes and love letters to student athletes, appreciate they're in college for the same reason we all were (a career), and get ready for a bunch of one-and-dones, because that's the level of program we're becoming.

Murphy outgo lifer
04-11-2017, 09:55 PM
Next man up.

Excited to see Larsen. He may stick around for awhile and that isn't necessarily bad.

This. Collins had a good not great 1 season with GU but had a lot of potential that will now not be realized at GU. Someone else wrote that Collins will fade into obscurity in the NBA and I can honestly say that I am upset now that we wont have him next year but beyond that I don't believe I will think about him much after this passes. He had a big game at a big moment for GU but he doesn't come close to topping my all time favorite Zags list.

I am of the belief that players should be a ready as possible to play in the NBA because at the end of the day it is a business and they only care about production. The NBA team that drafts him will give him the time and the resources to develop and he will be unencumbered by studies, however, he will be facing some of the worlds best athletes and he is not ready at this moment. How will he mentally respond? He has shown great promise in a lot of areas but has mastered none of them yet -save maybe shot blocking. He has not been a consistent rebounder 5.9 per game yes in only 17 minutes but he has been inconsistent and lacks strength to face larger more athletic NBA bigs. He has shown range with 47.6% on his shots from 3 but did not feature it much this year with only 21 attempted and he rarely shot from mid-range. His inside game looked more developed towards the end of the year but still far from a consistent presence. He has all the tools but he just doesn't have a consistent game yet.

People preach trust the staff in all other areas on this board and on this occasion they were telling him to come back. I believe they were looking out for his best interests and I personally believe it would have been in his best interest to come back. Everything in life is a gamble and he is going to make some $$$$ but I hope this is a success story for him and not something he later regrets.

seacatfan
04-11-2017, 10:05 PM
I think some of the people most shocked and disappointed by Zach leaving bought in a little too much to the "zag way" narrative. For years zag fans have scoffed at "factory schools" and their one and dones, and told themselves that we are different and special and immune to the one and done. In reality, we just didn't have any kids talented enough to make the jump after a year.

Bingo. Some fans are going to need to do some re-calibrating.

hooter73
04-11-2017, 10:08 PM
Meh, good luck I guess. He's about 18 and a day years old, extremely talented and who wouldn't chase the money?


Well a lot of guys who left early and said they should have stayed in college is who. Whatever, first world problems and all that.

Edited to add...actually I think it was Blake griffin that said he should have come back for another year. Funny.

seacatfan
04-11-2017, 10:18 PM
Steven Adams 23 min 7.2 pts. 6.3 reb 57% FG 44% FT at Pitt in 12'-13'
DeAndre Jordan 20 min 7.9 pts 6 reb 62% FG 44% FT at Texas A&M in '07-'08
Andre Drummond 28 min 10 pts 7.6 reb 54% FG 30% FT at UConn in '11-'12

Collins stacks up pretty well comparatively. Holy crap none of those guys shot FTs worth a damn in college!

seacatfan
04-11-2017, 10:20 PM
I'm really confused. I kept hearing all year how awesome Collins is. But now I'm hearing a lot of how far from NBA ready he is and now he'll fade into obscurity. What am I missing? Is there a disconnect?

hooter73
04-11-2017, 10:37 PM
Yes.

Zags_Fanatic
04-11-2017, 11:05 PM
Wow, this thread really devolved quickly. I'll gladly stand up for Mike and Zach. Gonzaga was a one year stop on a long journey that Mike has clearly been very involved in. He trained his son, helped him develop post skills, sold his house to pay for Gorman, sacrificed for Zach's success, encouraged him to take a small gamble and come to GU where he was expected to start and supported him while he was here. The dream was, always has been and always will be a successful NBA career for a talented young man who won the genetic lottery. If they are vetting agents it's safe to say the decision wasn't based on nbadraft.net, there is no reason to believe they didn't do their homework.

At the end of the day I look at Mike and see a father who wants the best for his son. An extra year at Gonzaga would be hugely beneficial to his development and the team but there are inherent risks of injury, a sophomore slump, a draft loaded with big men, etc. and I can't blame Zach for moving on when his stock is sky high.

Zags_Fanatic
04-11-2017, 11:10 PM
considering russell westbrook doesn't really let anyone else touch the ball but russell westbrook i'd say sabonis's numbers aren't terrible

Sabonis did go for 19 and 9 tonight with Russ sitting out. Not a bad game for the rook.

Zagger
04-12-2017, 01:49 AM
Tried reading all previous posts but - just too many. Hope I'm not repeating anyone.
First, Congrats Zach! Looks like you'll be in the NBA pretty soon :)
Second, Looks like GU does it all by the likes of Karnowski & Collins. Having big guys who can have hugely successful 4+ years and have a guy who can attract the NBA in a year - both on the same team AND play in a Championship game. That's awesome!
I wished Zach was staying but that's as a GU/Spokanite fan. As a Zags BB fan I'm excited to see November's roster. I'm also eager to see how, on the big side, Tillie, Williams & Larsen do in 2017-18.
All in all I'm disappointed a bit that Collins is leaving but more so excited for the Zags overall. This was a year that meshed a few new faces and excelled. All the guys got to experience their team playing in a NCAA Championship. That's pretty darn special. If they did it - who's to say next season's team can't. Wow, quite a season this one! What a ride! Go Zags!

btzag
04-12-2017, 03:40 AM
I'm really confused. I kept hearing all year how awesome Collins is. But now I'm hearing a lot of how far from NBA ready he is and now he'll fade into obscurity. What am I missing? Is there a disconnect?

The point is we don't know what his NBA success will be. Neither do NBA execs. The less on court time that a player has makes it even more uncertain. Potential does not guarantee success.

I think you are confusing the issue; the so called detractors on this string seem to think he would have benefitted as a player with another year in college. Period. I don't think he's going to be a bust or not develop just that I think they made the wrong choice out of the two they had.

Birddog
04-12-2017, 03:55 AM
Sabonis did go for 19 and 9 tonight with Russ sitting out. Not a bad game for the rook.

And 3 assists in a win over the T-Wolves in arguably his best night as a pro. Still, Domus hit the rookie wall about a month and a half or two ago, and hit it hard. The 82 regular season games take a mighty toll. I hope Collins does well, but from here on out, basketball is a job and not just "the game I love".

TexasZagFan
04-12-2017, 06:02 AM
And 3 assists in a win over the T-Wolves in arguably his best night as a pro. Still, Domus hit the rookie wall about a month and a half or two ago, and hit it hard. The 82 regular season games take a mighty toll. I hope Collins does well, but from here on out, basketball is a job and not just "the game I love".

I'm a bit surprised at the hand wringing and negativity directed at Zach. The young man played great for us, and was undeniably a major contributor to our first Final Four. This is what you get when Burger Boys sign with your school.

We offer Zach and his family thanks and best wishes, and move on, because we're Zags...that's what Zags do.

The solution to one-and-dones lies with the NBA, to remove the age restriction on entry into the NBA, a codicil in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The CBA was extended to 2023 back in December, so that's what we'll be enduring for at least another six years.

zagfan24
04-12-2017, 06:05 AM
I'm a bit surprised at the hand wringing and negativity directed at Zach. The young man played great for us, and was undeniably a major contributor to our first Final Four. This is what you get when Burger Boys sign with your school.

We offer Zach and his family thanks and best wishes, and move on, because we're Zags...that's what Zags do.

The solution to one-and-dones lies with the NBA, to remove the age restriction on entry into the NBA, a codicil in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The CBA was extended to 2023 back in December, so that's what we'll be enduring for at least another six years.

Agree 100% Tex. The honest truth is if the one-and-done rule wasn't in place, there's a chance we never see Zach at all. Who knows?

Questioning the motives of his family just seems really antithetical to everything Gonzaga represents, IMO.

Alum08
04-12-2017, 06:07 AM
Criticizing a player's family because of his decision to play basketball in the NBA and earn millions of dollars is one of the most pathetic things I've witnessed on this board.

Zaga
04-12-2017, 06:08 AM
What is it these kids owe us that makes you trash them and question their motives or potential? ESPN reports NBA execs are telling him he is firmly a first round pick, and potentially lottery, and y'all act like he cheated on you with another guy. And for people questioning whether Sabonis is having a good year, it's fitting that he's putting up 20 and 10 tonight.

Collins was a great Zag. Sabonis was a great Zag. Quit writing emotional diatribes and love letters to student athletes, appreciate they're in college for the same reason we all were (a career), and get ready for a bunch of one-and-dones, because that's the level of program we're becoming.

Somebody needed to say it.........Bulls eye..

thespywhozaggedme
04-12-2017, 06:21 AM
I think some of the people most shocked and disappointed by Zach leaving bought in a little too much to the "zag way" narrative. For years zag fans have scoffed at "factory schools" and their one and dones, and told themselves that we are different and special and immune to the one and done. In reality, we just didn't have any kids talented enough to make the jump after a year.

Boom! Mic drop

bartruff1
04-12-2017, 06:35 AM
Sabonis did go for 19 and 9 tonight with Russ sitting out. Not a bad game for the rook.

No surprise, Sabonis is not in Westbrook's club....he needs to get away from that guy in order to realize his potential....

zagcheer78
04-12-2017, 06:51 AM
During his interview on The Mark Few Show, Zack was totally candid about not staying at GU longer than he needed. His focus was firmly on getting to the NBA as soon as he was able.
I appreciate his honesty and wish him the best.

Zagsker
04-12-2017, 06:55 AM
Some of you dudes must be 90 years old... "and he graduated"... this isnt 1950... guys leave early. Guys that are projected lottery picks leave early. I think he could use another year of development, but man if i was 18 and someone offered me a few million bucks i would say sayonara to my graduation plans as well. We can praise the kids that graduate, but dont demean the ones who dont who have the opportunity to make millions...

With the explosion of online Universities, etc...a college degree is a bit watered down from "saints be praised" view

Zagsker
04-12-2017, 06:56 AM
I think some of the people most shocked and disappointed by Zach leaving bought in a little too much to the "zag way" narrative. For years zag fans have scoffed at "factory schools" and their one and dones, and told themselves that we are different and special and immune to the one and done. In reality, we just didn't have any kids talented enough to make the jump after a year.

100% spot on

zag944
04-12-2017, 07:01 AM
There are a lot of things to be gained with another year in this program, but a degree is not one of them. I get the cautious optimism people had about the guy staying another season to work on a few things, but thinking he is going to be here four years while he is on all the draft boards seems rather naive.

bartruff1
04-12-2017, 07:15 AM
I know this implies some criticism...but that is not my intent and I do not know the youngster or his family...

But if he was my son I would not want to expose him to the NBA culture at such a young age.....

Regardless of where he plays, I would have encouraged him to stay in college till he was at least 21.

Having said that, I want to add how much I enjoyed watching him play this season and wish him nothing but the best as he pursues his career.

ZagLawGrad
04-12-2017, 07:26 AM
First time on the thread and it's 7 pages long. My God. Some of you are just crybabies who pretend on forums to think for him but just think for yourself, a fan of GU not of Collins. It's his dream. Let him pursue it. If it's a mistake then fine. If it's not then fine also. How many of you have lived perfect lives so far?

Some on here need to take a break once in a while from the basketball board.

EEzag
04-12-2017, 07:28 AM
I know this implies some criticism...but that is not my intent and I do not know the youngster or his family...

But if he was my son I would not want to expose him to the NBA culture at such a young age.....

Regardless of where he plays, I would have encouraged him to stay in college till he was at least 21.

Having said that, I want to add how much I enjoyed watching him play this season and wish him nothing but the best as he pursues his career.




Those of us who have been in and have children in competitive sports know the value of opportunity. He sees his opportunity and is grabbing it. He's a special placer and a good kid. He chose us for his collegiate experience and I'm thankful he did. Now I will have probably a reason to cheer for yet another NBA team that previously I didn't care about. Celtics, Thunder (should be Sonics...grrr) Rockets and ??? Z-Bo is our guy. Good luck to him.

Who's next?

Gonzdb8
04-12-2017, 07:33 AM
I had convinced myself that he'd be back and turned out i was dead wrong. Disappointed I won't get to see ZC in a zags uni again but so happy for him and his family. Pretty cool to see a dream realized. I don't see it happening but i would love to see him land in Houston. He'd be amazing in D'Antoni's offense. Good luck ZC and thanks for being a big part of a historic season. Go Zags.

77Zag
04-12-2017, 07:43 AM
Best of luck Zach. Go rock the NBA world. Only disappointment for me is i wanted to see more minutes from Zach in a Zag uniform. I will follow him and root for him in the NBA like all Zags.

TexasZagFan
04-12-2017, 07:44 AM
Tried reading all previous posts but - just too many. Hope I'm not repeating anyone.
First, Congrats Zach! Looks like you'll be in the NBA pretty soon :)
Second, Looks like GU does it all by the likes of Karnowski & Collins. Having big guys who can have hugely successful 4+ years and have a guy who can attract the NBA in a year - both on the same team AND play in a Championship game. That's awesome!
I wished Zach was staying but that's as a GU/Spokanite fan. As a Zags BB fan I'm excited to see November's roster. I'm also eager to see how, on the big side, Tillie, Williams & Larsen do in 2017-18.
All in all I'm disappointed a bit that Collins is leaving but more so excited for the Zags overall. This was a year that meshed a few new faces and excelled. All the guys got to experience their team playing in a NCAA Championship. That's pretty darn special. If they did it - who's to say next season's team can't. Wow, quite a season this one! What a ride! Go Zags!

IMO, this was "Year One" of the "new" Gonzaga Formula for Success: acquire talent from every source imaginable; directly from HS (with an occasional Burger Boy mixed in), transfers - both grad and undergrad, and international players. Throw 'em all together, and rely on the coaching staff to mold them into a cohesive unit. We are no longer just "Guard U", we're the UN and "Transfer U" to boot.

The success was evident this year, from the Final Four to the postseason awards. I would caution everyone that future years may not be nearly as successful as this year. The program continues to march forward, though we can continue to expect higher turnover from year to year.

Four slots have likely opened up, as I expect Nigel to depart, as well. Who will step up to fill those shoes, be accountable for those minutes? At first glance, I'm looking to Larsen, Rui, and Norvell to step up. I look to Josh to mature as a point guard, too. I know I'm missing a few, and we're four months from the start of the fall semester. It's going to be fun to watch.

TexasZagFan
04-12-2017, 07:50 AM
Some on here need to take a break once in a while from the basketball board.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtqkXc7JgjqhtZx_UBhC-QBSseU-bmIzcqFvafpo5Q660deRPJ

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRaHNvpv0gYdSxNwwka0vKjxW5IOyOQa 8ZMHZ6RC6YTj2bILN8-

https://i.imgflip.com/xi8cf.jpg

TexasZagFan
04-12-2017, 07:52 AM
Those of us who have been in and have children in competitive sports know the value of opportunity. He sees his opportunity and is grabbing it. He's a special placer and a good kid. He chose us for his collegiate experience and I'm thankful he did. Now I will have probably a reason to cheer for yet another NBA team that previously I didn't care about. Celtics, Thunder (should be Sonics...grrr) Rockets and ??? Z-Bo is our guy. Good luck to him.

Who's next?

That's pretty much how I follow the NBA now, i.e. cheer for the Zags no matter the team.

ZagMan in Philly
04-12-2017, 08:10 AM
Let's hope this guy is right about Nigel
http://thecomeback.com/ncaa/zach-collins-nba-draft-gonzaga.html

JPtheBeasta
04-12-2017, 08:22 AM
Also, the idea that you don't improve your game in the NBA is silly. If that was the case, teams wouldn't draft so much on potential. What good is all that potential if NBA teams can't or won't develop it!?!?!?

I agree. It stands to reason that working with professionals and not having to go to class would excelerate player grown and development. If a player is not ready as a person for the money, the culture, the media, and the lifestyle... that's where I think growth needs to happen first in college. But how many people jump to the NBA and ruin their lives? I don't think it's very many. I'm not worried about Collins- I'm happy that he gets to actualize a dream.

IMADEYOUREADTHIS
04-12-2017, 08:29 AM
Good for Zach, it doesn't really matter what any of us think, he's a great player with a chance to follow his dream - why would we begrudge him of that? Wouldn't any of us do the same thing if our dream was right in front of us, even if sooner than we thought?

gmo
04-12-2017, 08:31 AM
Colin Cowherd just did a segment on Zach's decision. Said he spoke with two NBA Scouts who claim he will start in the D-League and next year's class is significantly thinner than this year so he would have been a Top 3 pick after one more year at Gonzaga.

Zagceo
04-12-2017, 08:43 AM
and another opinion....


Heís just been under the radar is all.
Come draft time, I would be shocked if Collins isnít being mentioned as one of the five or six best players in this draft.


http://pistonpowered.com/2017/04/06/is-detroit-pistons-prospect-zach-collins-the-next-kat/

Zagger
04-12-2017, 08:47 AM
Let's hope this guy is right about Nigel
http://thecomeback.com/ncaa/zach-collins-nba-draft-gonzaga.html

I would guess they'd say Nigel is returning - until Nigel says he's not ......
I'd like him to stay as a Zag but definitely would cheer him on if he thought he should leave.
--------------
I'm actually getting curious and somewhat excited about another Zag team with a few new faces. A newer mix sure worked well this season!

Alum08
04-12-2017, 08:54 AM
Colin Cowherd just did a segment on Zach's decision. Said he spoke with two NBA Scouts who claim he will start in the D-League and next year's class is significantly thinner than this year so he would have been a Top 3 pick after one more year at Gonzaga.

Cowherd is a moron. If this class is so good then why would one of its top picks be playing in the D-league?

Zags11
04-12-2017, 08:58 AM
Cowherd is a moron. If this class is so good then why would one of its top picks be playing in the D-league?

He won't be in D league but won't stand out either. He needed one more year. Wish him the best.

CDC84
04-12-2017, 08:58 AM
Official announcement:

http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041117aaa.html

No statement from Coach Mark Few in the announcement as of 10:11am PT.

Zags11
04-12-2017, 09:00 AM
Official announcement:

http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041117aaa.html

No statement from Coach Mark Few.

I don't believe they think he is full ready. Like sabonis wasn't fully ready.

CDC84
04-12-2017, 09:02 AM
A Coach Few statement was issued when Olynyk left early after being a first team AA and Wooden Award candidate:

http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041913aaa.html

Same with Sabonis who played two years and became a great player before leaving (17.6ppg, 11.8rpg; 19.7ppg, 14.3rpg in GU's stunning advancement to the S-16 in the 2016 NCAA tournament):

http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040716aaa.html


"[Domantas] is as impressive of a person and player as I've ever coached," Gonzaga head coach Mark Few said. "He has an insatiable desire to get better."

Just a coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Nothing here either:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/apr/11/gonzagas-zach-collins-declares-for-nba-draft-inten/

deathchina
04-12-2017, 09:15 AM
Even if the staff doesn't think he is ready to make the jump (for the record I don't think he is either, but I totally understand why you leave when your stock is hot) I think they should have put out a statement celebrating his achievements and sending him off. It comes off as passive aggressive and bitter if this was intentional.

One thing I want to add.... it's not a slam dunk that he improves his stock next season. As a lottery pick, there is a long long way to fall if things don't fall in place. There is also a bit of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" element working here.

What if Zach came back, averaged 18 and 10. Didn't hit his 3 pointers, maybe tweaked an ankle or a knee and missed half a dozen games. He might even cost himself some draft position, and have one year less in his "basketball prime" to command a top salary.

Of course if he turns into an absolute stud it's all a moot point. But that is hardly a sure thing.

TexasZagFan
04-12-2017, 09:31 AM
Even if the staff doesn't think he is ready to make the jump (for the record I don't think he is either, but I totally understand why you leave when your stock is hot) I think they should have put out a statement celebrating his achievements and sending him off. It comes off as passive aggressive and bitter if this was intentional.

One thing I want to add.... it's not a slam dunk that he improves his stock next season. As a lottery pick, there is a long long way to fall if things don't fall in place. There is also a bit of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" element working here.

What if Zach came back, averaged 18 and 10. Didn't hit his 3 pointers, maybe tweaked an ankle or a knee and missed half a dozen games. He might even cost himself some draft position, and have one year less in his "basketball prime" to command a top salary.

Of course if he turns into an absolute stud it's all a moot point. But that is hardly a sure thing.

As I heard my old friend Ben Franklin say (after a few beers), "In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. Trips to the Final Four are far from certain, and should be savored."

Goshzagit
04-12-2017, 09:31 AM
Colin Cowherd just did a segment on Zach's decision. Said he spoke with two NBA Scouts who claim he will start in the D-League and next year's class is significantly thinner than this year so he would have been a Top 3 pick after one more year at Gonzaga.

Heard the same.

I've also heard numerous experts talk about next year's draft class is supposed to be thin.

I expected him to start in D-League, as good and skilled and athletic Collins is -- he gets pushed around, although not short on toughness. The ball is swiped often vs WCC teams as well.

I am more than excited and hopeful of Zach's future, I believe he'll be a stud in time, yet I don't understand how he didn't want to build his BRAND next year.

What these kids don't understand, is brand-name is nearly as important as being drafted Top-10 after 2-3 seasons in NBA. Just ask Ammo how he secured a 2nd contract after never playing.

Colin said the same. He would have been a SUPERSTAR next season and dominant at this level. A bonafide Top-5 pick, if not higher.

Collins will be drafted Top-20...and then that's it. He is 19 yrs old in locker-rooms with grown men with families.

Why not enjoy college, become a 1st team AA, build his brand.

His HS teammate was Zimmerman. Also averaged 10 & 8 before becoming a 1 & done.

Hasn't sniffed an NBA roster since. Been locked away in D-League since declaring and drafted. Did he consult with him?

Everyone, including every scout, coach expected him to go after 1 more year. When he'd be 20, playing serious mins, stronger, etc.

Just think how much stronger Sabonis is/was? Think about Sabonis playing 36 mins a game and still not ready for the rigors of NBA season? Even with a family support system deep in NBA, etc.

It is not a long-term mistake he declared, but I feel a short-term mistake for him.

Either way, his choice, just my opinion, and I hope he does awesome

Hoopaholic
04-12-2017, 09:40 AM
Even if the staff doesn't think he is ready to make the jump (for the record I don't think he is either, but I totally understand why you leave when your stock is hot) I think they should have put out a statement celebrating his achievements and sending him off. It comes off as passive aggressive and bitter if this was intentional.

One thing I want to add.... it's not a slam dunk that he improves his stock next season. As a lottery pick, there is a long long way to fall if things don't fall in place. There is also a bit of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" element working here.

What if Zach came back, averaged 18 and 10. Didn't hit his 3 pointers, maybe tweaked an ankle or a knee and missed half a dozen games. He might even cost himself some draft position, and have one year less in his "basketball prime" to command a top salary.

Of course if he turns into an absolute stud it's all a moot point. But that is hardly a sure thing.

I am happy he is following his dream...............but you want staff to make statements about achievements?

what achievements (All freshman WCC?) or would you want them to make false statements?

He struggled in every big game (BYU's, St Mary, Arizona, Florida, ISU) until the tournament where he had an exceptional game against SC...........

admittedly I dont follow NBA at all so not sure what they are looking for or how they gauge upside potential.......

but in the 16 big games this year 7.7 points per game and 5.4 rebounds per game scoring in double figures 5 of the 16 games, with high of 14 points twice has more turnovers per game than blocks per game and only one of the 16 games did he have a double double.........

ZagMan in Philly
04-12-2017, 09:42 AM
Even if the staff doesn't think he is ready to make the jump (for the record I don't think he is either, but I totally understand why you leave when your stock is hot) I think they should have put out a statement celebrating his achievements and sending him off. It comes off as passive aggressive and bitter if this was intentional.

One thing I want to add.... it's not a slam dunk that he improves his stock next season. As a lottery pick, there is a long long way to fall if things don't fall in place. There is also a bit of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" element working here.

What if Zach came back, averaged 18 and 10. Didn't hit his 3 pointers, maybe tweaked an ankle or a knee and missed half a dozen games. He might even cost himself some draft position, and have one year less in his "basketball prime" to command a top salary.

Of course if he turns into an absolute stud it's all a moot point. But that is hardly a sure thing.

Just heard that Miles Bridges of Michigan State has cancelled meeting with his agent, and leaning towards coming back for his sophomore year...and he was going in the first round of the draft....wonder what changed his mind.

Hoopaholic
04-12-2017, 09:42 AM
Heard the same.

I've also heard numerous experts talk about next year's draft class is supposed to be thin.

I expected him to start in D-League, as good and skilled and athletic Collins is -- he gets pushed around, although not short on toughness. The ball is swiped often vs WCC teams as well.

I am more than excited and hopeful of Zach's future, I believe he'll be a stud in time, yet I don't understand how he didn't want to build his BRAND next year.

What these kids don't understand, is brand-name is nearly as important as being drafted Top-10 after 2-3 seasons in NBA. Just ask Ammo how he secured a 2nd contract after never playing.

Colin said the same. He would have been a SUPERSTAR next season and dominant at this level. A bonafide Top-5 pick, if not higher.

Collins will be drafted Top-20...and then that's it. He is 19 yrs old in locker-rooms with grown men with families.

Why not enjoy college, become a 1st team AA, build his brand.

His HS teammate was Zimmerman. Also averaged 10 & 8 before becoming a 1 & done.

Hasn't sniffed an NBA roster since. Been locked away in D-League since declaring and drafted. Did he consult with him?

Everyone, including every scout, coach expected him to go after 1 more year. When he'd be 20, playing serious mins, stronger, etc.

Just think how much stronger Sabonis is/was? Think about Sabonis playing 36 mins a game and still not ready for the rigors of NBA season? Even with a family support system deep in NBA, etc.

It is not a long-term mistake he declared, but I feel a short-term mistake for him.

Either way, his choice, just my opinion, and I hope he does awesome

sums up my view

It is his decision and he has made it....wish him best of luck chasing his dream

Pallet
04-12-2017, 09:53 AM
Even if the staff doesn't think he is ready to make the jump (for the record I don't think he is either, but I totally understand why you leave when your stock is hot) I think they should have put out a statement celebrating his achievements and sending him off. It comes off as passive aggressive and bitter if this was intentional.

One thing I want to add.... it's not a slam dunk that he improves his stock next season. As a lottery pick, there is a long long way to fall if things don't fall in place. There is also a bit of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" element working here.

What if Zach came back, averaged 18 and 10. Didn't hit his 3 pointers, maybe tweaked an ankle or a knee and missed half a dozen games. He might even cost himself some draft position, and have one year less in his "basketball prime" to command a top salary.

Of course if he turns into an absolute stud it's all a moot point. But that is hardly a sure thing.

Ivan Rabb came back to Cal this past year, had a pretty similar year to his freshman season, and dropped in the draft. Fans like to project that his efficiency would stay high with more minutes/opportunities, but that's not always the case.

TexasZagFan
04-12-2017, 09:57 AM
With the explosion of online Universities, etc...a college degree is a bit watered down from "saints be praised" view

Throw in grade inflation, too.

With today's technology, I could've completed my senior thesis in about 3 weeks, as opposed to four months. I spent hours in the Stacks researching my topic, as opposed to a Google search. My "word processor" was a state of the art electric typewriter, with black and white cartridges that could not be employed at the same time. My spell check was a dictionary. Took me an entire weekend to type 40 pages.

Never took a course from an online university, so I can't attest to the quality of the education.

CDC84
04-12-2017, 10:11 AM
Ivan Rabb came back to Cal this past year, had a pretty similar year to his freshman season, and dropped in the draft. Fans like to project that his efficiency would stay high with more minutes/opportunities, but that's not always the case.

On the other hand, Ronny Turiaf stayed behind, dropped to a second round pick, but developed skills that allowed him to have a longer NBA career. Vast improvement between his junior and senior years. He will tell you the same thing as me, as will Few. So it can work both ways. Ronny eventually made his big money because he got to that second contract which is the real important thing. That is what truly sets you up for life unless you're like the #5 pick or something like that and get a monster shoe contract.

Look - it is their decision, not mine, but if Zach came back to GU and proved to be not as good, it would've gotten exposed in the NBA. Is this a passion of his or just a way to make money? I would want to be the best player I could possibly be before I stepped on to the NBA floor to ensure a career so I could do what I loved doing, and yes, while making bank at the same time.

I am not sure athletes should make decisions based on fear of being exposed, or even fear of injury (as Walter Payton once said, fear of injury just makes you more likely to get injured). That's not the heart of a true champion. If you are good enough, you will stay around the league.

Murphy outgo lifer
04-12-2017, 10:33 AM
On the other hand, Ronny Turiaf stayed behind, dropped to a second round pick, but developed skills that allowed him to have a longer NBA career. Vast improvement between his junior and senior years. He will tell you the same thing as me, as will Few. So it can work both ways. Ronny eventually made his big money because he got to that second contract which is the real important thing. That is what truly sets you up for life unless you're like the #5 pick or something like that and get a monster shoe contract.

Look - it is their decision, not mine, but if Zach came back to GU and proved to be not as good, it would've gotten exposed in the NBA. Is this a passion of his or just a way to make money? I would want to be the best player I could possibly be before I stepped on to the NBA floor to ensure a career so I could do what I loved doing, and yes, while making bank at the same time.

I am not sure athletes should make decisions based on fear of being exposed, or even fear of injury (as Walter Payton once said, fear of injury just makes you more likely to get injured). That's not the heart of a true champion. If you are good enough, you will stay around the league.

This.

Murphy outgo lifer
04-12-2017, 10:34 AM
Heard the same.

I've also heard numerous experts talk about next year's draft class is supposed to be thin.

I expected him to start in D-League, as good and skilled and athletic Collins is -- he gets pushed around, although not short on toughness. The ball is swiped often vs WCC teams as well.

I am more than excited and hopeful of Zach's future, I believe he'll be a stud in time, yet I don't understand how he didn't want to build his BRAND next year.

What these kids don't understand, is brand-name is nearly as important as being drafted Top-10 after 2-3 seasons in NBA. Just ask Ammo how he secured a 2nd contract after never playing.

Colin said the same. He would have been a SUPERSTAR next season and dominant at this level. A bonafide Top-5 pick, if not higher.

Collins will be drafted Top-20...and then that's it. He is 19 yrs old in locker-rooms with grown men with families.

Why not enjoy college, become a 1st team AA, build his brand.

His HS teammate was Zimmerman. Also averaged 10 & 8 before becoming a 1 & done.

Hasn't sniffed an NBA roster since. Been locked away in D-League since declaring and drafted. Did he consult with him?

Everyone, including every scout, coach expected him to go after 1 more year. When he'd be 20, playing serious mins, stronger, etc.

Just think how much stronger Sabonis is/was? Think about Sabonis playing 36 mins a game and still not ready for the rigors of NBA season? Even with a family support system deep in NBA, etc.

It is not a long-term mistake he declared, but I feel a short-term mistake for him.

Either way, his choice, just my opinion, and I hope he does awesome

And this.

bartruff1
04-12-2017, 10:52 AM
IMHO Sabonis had nothing to gain by another year in college basketball.....but more important than even my opinion, his father has a great deal of knowledge and experience that he could call on....

U Zig, I Zag
04-12-2017, 10:55 AM
IMHO Sabonis had nothing to gain by another year in college basketball.....but more important than even my opinion, his father has a great deal of knowledge and experience that he could call on....

Sabonis had/has a toughness from another dimension. He could bang, bang, bang with guys. Zach is more fragile. Sabonis got worn down this year, you could see it. It'll hit Zach even worse (I am not sure he see's an NBA floor next year, he is being drafted on potential).

As a Zag BB fan, I prefer he stayed. As a fan of the Zag BB players, I am glad he is following his dream and I hope he makes a big splash (on the right team).

johno
04-12-2017, 11:08 AM
It's obviously his decision. I hate it though because I won't be seeing him play much basketball in the future. I just don't have the time or the interest to follow the NBA. There is no regional team near Spokane to root for and get passionate about. Perhaps I'll watch some games in the semifinals and the finals, especially if a former Zag is in the mix and playing some significant minutes. I suspect there are many on this board who have similar feelings.

Coach Crazy
04-12-2017, 11:15 AM
Heard the same.

I've also heard numerous experts talk about next year's draft class is supposed to be thin.

I expected him to start in D-League, as good and skilled and athletic Collins is -- he gets pushed around, although not short on toughness. The ball is swiped often vs WCC teams as well.

I am more than excited and hopeful of Zach's future, I believe he'll be a stud in time, yet I don't understand how he didn't want to build his BRAND next year.

What these kids don't understand, is brand-name is nearly as important as being drafted Top-10 after 2-3 seasons in NBA. Just ask Ammo how he secured a 2nd contract after never playing.

Colin said the same. He would have been a SUPERSTAR next season and dominant at this level. A bonafide Top-5 pick, if not higher.

Collins will be drafted Top-20...and then that's it. He is 19 yrs old in locker-rooms with grown men with families.

Why not enjoy college, become a 1st team AA, build his brand.

His HS teammate was Zimmerman. Also averaged 10 & 8 before becoming a 1 & done.

Hasn't sniffed an NBA roster since. Been locked away in D-League since declaring and drafted. Did he consult with him?

Everyone, including every scout, coach expected him to go after 1 more year. When he'd be 20, playing serious mins, stronger, etc.

Just think how much stronger Sabonis is/was? Think about Sabonis playing 36 mins a game and still not ready for the rigors of NBA season? Even with a family support system deep in NBA, etc.

It is not a long-term mistake he declared, but I feel a short-term mistake for him.

Either way, his choice, just my opinion, and I hope he does awesome

Stephen Zimmerman's net offensive output was a major detriment to that team, though. I wouldn't consider that an equitable comparison.

Zagger
04-12-2017, 11:20 AM
It's obviously his decision. I hate it though because I won't be seeing him play much basketball in the future. I just don't have the time or the interest to follow the NBA. There is no regional team near Spokane to root for and get passionate about. Perhaps I'll watch some games in the semifinals and the finals, especially if a former Zag is in the mix and playing some significant minutes. I suspect there are many on this board who have similar feelings.

Mine are quite similar. Plus, each season of Zags are so exciting to watch ...... it's hard to make time for those who have moved on. I certainly appreciate their efforts in building the program though. Zach certainly helped in that regard and was only around for a season. Dang, it's hard talking about Zach in the past tense!

Coach Crazy
04-12-2017, 11:41 AM
Colin Cowherd just did a segment on Zach's decision. Said he spoke with two NBA Scouts who claim he will start in the D-League and next year's class is significantly thinner than this year so he would have been a Top 3 pick after one more year at Gonzaga.

So, he spoke to a small sample size of frontline guys that aren't making the final decision on draft picks and roster spots? It's fine to speak with scouts, but if there seems to be some dissonance between what you hear from scouts, and what you hear from exec's...best to look into that and understand why. If Goodman is hearing that some execs are placing him as high as 8th, and he has a year of college under his belt and/or is American...chances are he is not being drafted to start out in the D-League.

Markburn1
04-12-2017, 01:17 PM
Ahhh. To be seven feet tall and possessed of athleticism. Cody Zeller is in the NBA. Zach has more potential than Cody. Cody can't even see the basket from the three point line. His best skill is setting screens. This is his fourth season in the league and he just now broke 10 ppg and 6 rebounds. He just signed a four year deal worth $56 million. Again, Zach has more discernible skills than Cody had coming out of college. If Zach believes he has more upside than Cody and some others in the league, it would be hard to argue with his decision.

Besides, maybe he doesn't like school.

tinfoilzag
04-12-2017, 01:26 PM
Zach just texted me. He wanted me to pass a message to those that feel hurt...

He's sorry about the break-up. It's not you it's him. You'll always have a special place in his heart but he's outgrown the relationship. He wants the best for you and hopes you can eventually forgive him. Take care of yourself.

**THIS IS A JOKE**

Hoopaholic
04-12-2017, 01:27 PM
Zach just texted me. He wanted me to pass a message to those that feel hurt...

He's sorry about the break-up. It's not you it's him. You'll always have a special place in his heart but he's outgrown the relationship. He wants the best for you and hopes you can eventually forgive him. Take care of yourself.

do we get the house and car? or just the bills (SARCASM ALERT)

tinfoilzag
04-12-2017, 01:29 PM
do we get the house and car? or just the bills (SARCASM ALERT)

You can have the house and car, he will be purchasing several new ones.

MontanaCoyote
04-12-2017, 01:39 PM
Too much too fast? Only time will tell. My opinion? "I don't like it but I guess things happen that way." Johnny Cash

Bogozags
04-12-2017, 02:02 PM
So, he spoke to a small sample size of frontline guys that aren't making the final decision on draft picks and roster spots? It's fine to speak with scouts, but if there seems to be some dissonance between what you hear from scouts, and what you hear from exec's...best to look into that and understand why. If Goodman is hearing that some execs are placing him as high as 8th, and he has a year of college under his belt and/or is American...chances are he is not being drafted to start out in the D-League.

Coach not reading this the same way...scouts are scouts and have an extremely strong base from which to judge talent/skills and how they would fit in the NBA...most execs are business people and look at the bottom line...I hear gmo saying that that Cowherd is hearing that because the draft is so deep this year, he will get drafted but because of all the talent available, he might not make the the roster and subsequently, will be assigned to the D League to grow/mature...much the say way Kyle has grown/matured...NBA teams don't draft for the D League but sometimes that potential just takes time to develop and sitting on the bench doesn't guarantee skill development...just my opinion on gmo's post...

By the way, GOOD LUCK to Zach! I hope he remains healthy and has a long, long career...

So, when Zach does get drafted, he will be the fourth successive Zag post player to be drafted in the NBA (Sacre, KO, DS and Zach)...

ZagsGoZags
04-12-2017, 02:04 PM
This is terrible news, in my opinion. He should not have to apologize to upset fans. We support you Zach, we know it is your job to do what you think is best for yourself, as long as you are respectful to us, and he has been at all times. He will go first round, and maybe lottery. It is easy to understand why he, and KO, and Ammo, and Sabonis did this too, once it seemed highly likely they would be picked high. Ammo's lottery pick set him up financially for life, no matter what happened to him. I feel bad Zach even has to address fans who don't like his decision. I am ashamed of the selfish criticisms of him. This was his right, his job, in his jurisdiction to make the decision. Come on Zag Message Board, tell him we will support him all his career as a Zag. Let's be high level zags as well as he is being a high level zag. He is part of the run that has changed our whole landscape on the national scene. Let's grow up and show our love and support.

Mantua
04-12-2017, 03:46 PM
This is terrible news, in my opinion. He should not have to apologize to upset fans. We support you Zach, we know it is your job to do what you think is best for yourself, as long as you are respectful to us, and he has been at all times. He will go first round, and maybe lottery. It is easy to understand why he, and KO, and Ammo, and Sabonis did this too, once it seemed highly likely they would be picked high. Ammo's lottery pick set him up financially for life, no matter what happened to him. I feel bad Zach even has to address fans who don't like his decision. I am ashamed of the selfish criticisms of him. This was his right, his job, in his jurisdiction to make the decision. Come on Zag Message Board, tell him we will support him all his career as a Zag. Let's be high level zags as well as he is being a high level zag. He is part of the run that has changed our whole landscape on the national scene. Let's grow up and show our love and support.

I pretty much agree and when our players are drafted it's good for recruiting.

I don't like the ways that NBA recruiting impacts college basketball. I can't figure out a better system but I wish there was one.

Hoopaholic
04-12-2017, 04:07 PM
You can have the house and car, he will be purchasing several new ones.

Good for my daily laugh

btzag
04-12-2017, 05:49 PM
This is terrible news, in my opinion. He should not have to apologize to upset fans. We support you Zach, we know it is your job to do what you think is best for yourself, as long as you are respectful to us, and he has been at all times. He will go first round, and maybe lottery. It is easy to understand why he, and KO, and Ammo, and Sabonis did this too, once it seemed highly likely they would be picked high. Ammo's lottery pick set him up financially for life, no matter what happened to him. I feel bad Zach even has to address fans who don't like his decision. I am ashamed of the selfish criticisms of him. This was his right, his job, in his jurisdiction to make the decision. Come on Zag Message Board, tell him we will support him all his career as a Zag. Let's be high level zags as well as he is being a high level zag. He is part of the run that has changed our whole landscape on the national scene. Let's grow up and show our love and support.

I have seen zero selfish criticisms of Zach Collins on this board. Can you point those out? Maybe they got deleted by mods...

People on this board have suggested another year would HELP him which, if he thinks that is criticism, wait until he gets to the NBA and is a 1st round lottery pick who is getting paid millions, maybe in a big media market. He is going to face real criticism on that level.

Also KO spent a redshirt year and then was an AA. Ammo was a junior and his last year was a player of the year candidate nationally. And Sabonis was a sophomore who after a productive freshman year was a 1st team all-WCC.

I personally am OK with my position on this topic because I believe it mirrors that of the coaching staff at GU. They want their players to develop to their limit at the college level and then, when ready, move on to very successful pro careers because they are fully prepared. This could be 1 and done, could be 2 and done, or a full four years. The time period doesn't matter, the preparation of the kid is what matters, and I can't fault our staff or fans for caring about this.

cjm720
04-12-2017, 05:50 PM
Sure seems like a tough decision...I think we all wish we had his blend of skill and confidence. In following him in HS and at GU, I have no doubt he will work his tail off to be the best. I can't fault his decision but will miss his play.

Now let's reload!

MDABE80
04-12-2017, 06:00 PM
We 'll miss his future with us. We did quite well with him playing 15-17 minutes of a 40 minute game.
Average to good numbers this year. Certainly not lotto numbers . We'll find someone else. Few always does. Good kid. Wishing him the best.
Many here need to objectively evaluate what happened.

Zagricultural
04-12-2017, 06:21 PM
Colin Cowherd just did a segment on Zach's decision. Said he spoke with two NBA Scouts who claim he will start in the D-League and next year's class is significantly thinner than this year so he would have been a Top 3 pick after one more year at Gonzaga.

This is my concern. I'm excited for Zach, but want to see him be a star. Here's to hoping he has a really good combine, and goes to a team willing to be patient as he adjusts. I will gladly admit if I was wrong, but this still feels like a serious error on his part.

JIMMYMACINCDA
04-12-2017, 09:37 PM
Criticizing a player's family because of his decision to play basketball in the NBA and earn millions of dollars is one of the most pathetic things I've witnessed on this board.

AMEN!!!

CDC84
04-12-2017, 10:45 PM
http://en.bloguru.com/GloryHounds/296556/zach-collins-we-hardly-knew-ye

Still only 2 players in the history of the program that have congratulated him on his twitter account for his decision. Hmmmm......

And still no statement from Few or any of the coaches.....who even made statements on Spangler transferring from Gonzaga to OU. Hmmmm....

We'll see if there are changes.

CodeCobalt
04-12-2017, 10:46 PM
I really didn't like the interview on KREM 2 tonight. He seemed to think of everyone who wants him to stay and develop more at GU as haters that he thanks cause they push him to go harder.

No hate was meant! I selfishly want Collins to stay at GU and I strongly believe that he would greatly benefit with another year at GU, its no knock at his current stature, there's a reason he's a top 10 pick. Another year at GU isn't likely to increase his draft stock, but would definitely help out his long term game. NBA is long, 81 game season and playoffs, there's not much time for development and for the money teams are paying, they'll want to utilize him immediately. Collins will do good in the NBA, but he could be better, or he could tear his ACL while walking to the toilet tonight and be worthless to the NBA.

Zaga
04-13-2017, 05:06 AM
Zach just texted me. He wanted me to pass a message to those that feel hurt...

He's sorry about the break-up. It's not you it's him. You'll always have a special place in his heart but he's outgrown the relationship. He wants the best for you and hopes you can eventually forgive him. Take care of yourself.

LOL

TexasZagFan
04-13-2017, 06:27 AM
I pretty much agree and when our players are drafted it's good for recruiting.

I don't like the ways that NBA recruiting impacts college basketball. I can't figure out a better system but I wish there was one.

We're stuck with the "system" until 2023, when the CBA expires. The minimum entry age was to protect NBA GMs and owners from themselves, i.e. writing big checks to 18 YO phenoms, only to see most of them flame out. Under the current system, they get another year to evaluate them, though I wonder how much more effective the current method is.

Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but when you turn 18, you're legally an adult. If you're eligible to volunteer for the armed forces, you should be able to legally consume an adult beverage, buy a pack of cigarettes, and sign an NBA contract. IMO, it should be up to the NBA teams to develop their players, instead of the free farm system provided them via the NCAA.

Hoopaholic
04-13-2017, 08:33 AM
We're stuck with the "system" until 2023, when the CBA expires. The minimum entry age was to protect NBA GMs and owners from themselves, i.e. writing big checks to 18 YO phenoms, only to see most of them flame out. Under the current system, they get another year to evaluate them, though I wonder how much more effective the current method is.

Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but when you turn 18, you're legally an adult. If you're eligible to volunteer for the armed forces, you should be able to legally consume an adult beverage, buy a pack of cigarettes, and sign an NBA contract. IMO, it should be up to the NBA teams to develop their players, instead of the free farm system provided them via the NCAA.

exactly from my perspective

CDC84
04-13-2017, 08:56 AM
It's not going to change. The shoes are in permanent glue. The vast majority of NBA people now advocate a 20 year old age limit. They feel the players aren't ready at 19 either. It was originally a stance, yes, to protect GM's from themselves. They were, in the view of business analysts and the commish, as destroying a league that was losing popularity at a massive rate due to fans not knowing who the players were beyond a recruiting chart. Many folks went thru about a 10 year period where they didn't watch the game, and they used to watch all the time. They now watch regularly because they know who he is playing. Plus basketball has gotten all exciting with all the small ball and skill that's on display. The rule has been viewed as a massive success within the league, and now NBA people who once disliked it as something being shoved down their throats now love it. Even the guys who made the right choices in drafting guys like Kobe and LeBron.

However, things are collectively bargained, so I don't see it going to 20 when people go to the table again. But I don't ever see the 19 year old age limit leaving either. And there will never be a NBA minor league system (beyond the D-league) so long as there is college basketball that has been a proven developmental tool that costs the NBA very little.

I am NOT saying I agree with the age limit or if it is all good for the game, so please don't get all over me. But I really don't see things changing. Regardless of whether the NBA folks have faulty reasoning or not.



We're stuck with the "system" until 2023, when the CBA expires. The minimum entry age was to protect NBA GMs and owners from themselves, i.e. writing big checks to 18 YO phenoms, only to see most of them flame out. Under the current system, they get another year to evaluate them, though I wonder how much more effective the current method is.

Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but when you turn 18, you're legally an adult. If you're eligible to volunteer for the armed forces, you should be able to legally consume an adult beverage, buy a pack of cigarettes, and sign an NBA contract. IMO, it should be up to the NBA teams to develop their players, instead of the free farm system provided them via the NCAA.

TexasZagFan
04-13-2017, 09:09 AM
CDC, after signing those uber-lucrative TV contracts, future changes to the CBA will be cosmetic, if at all.

Under the guise of "looking out for the fans", I expect Silver's office to bring a hammer down on resting of players. I hardly think expanding the season by a week is going to accomplish the desired result.

It's a ruse, IMO. The issue of resting star players did not become a problem for the Commish until those Saturday night PT games had San Antonio and Golden State resting all of their stars. TV Execs had to have been burning up the telephones at NBA HQ.

CDC84
04-13-2017, 09:23 AM
The resting players thing you talk about would be aided by the NBA doing a better job with scheduling. For example, don't have the Spurs, who rest players all the time and have done so for years, playing a tough game the night before the big NBA prime time game vs. a major opponent. It's a simple way to handle it. If Pops still abuses it, then take action.

Obviously, these teams should try to wait for homestands to rest players, and under no conditions should they do it when teams are playing teams from an opposing conference. The Celtic fans only have one time per year where they can see Steph Curry in person.

But I really feel that better scheduling would take care of a lot of the problems. But yes, if people still abuse, he's going to need to take action.

Or maybe just play less games? I know it messes with the record books, but 80 games is a lot. And it might make for a better postseason.

TexasZagFan
04-13-2017, 09:46 AM
The resting players thing you talk about would be aided by the NBA doing a better job with scheduling. For example, don't have the Spurs, who rest players all the time and have done so for years, playing a tough game the night before the big NBA prime time game vs. a major opponent. It's a simple way to handle it. If Pops still abuses it, then take action.

Obviously, these teams should try to wait for homestands to rest players, and under no conditions should they do it when teams are playing teams from an opposing conference. The Celtic fans only have one time per year where they can see Steph Curry in person.

But I really feel that better scheduling would take care of a lot of the problems. But yes, if people still abuse, he's going to need to take action.

Or maybe just play less games? I know it messes with the record books, but 80 games is a lot. And it might make for a better postseason.

Not that I put a great deal of thought into it, but why not have a rotating cycle of games? For example, half the league is on a Tues-Thurs-Sat cycle, the other half is on a Mon-Weds-Fri-Sun cycle. You could rotate the teams every month, or alternate the Sun-Mon to avoid back to backs.

zag944
04-13-2017, 10:00 AM
I think there has been a lot of talk about eliminating or pushing back two weeks of preseason and eliminating a good portion of the back to back games (especially road games). I doubt they ever cut back the 82 game regular season even though that's probably be beneficial to the product.

Zagdawg
05-14-2017, 03:52 PM
Chicago Bulls Rumors‏
@chicagobullsbot

Rumor: Chicago Bulls forum source reporting Bulls are exploring trading up in draft for C Zach Collins. Gar/Pax were at Gonzaga this week.

MDABE80
05-14-2017, 07:15 PM
Gar? Pax?

Zags_Fanatic
05-14-2017, 07:20 PM
Gar? Pax?

Gar Forman (GM) and John Paxson (VP of Basketball Operations)

ProVeeZag
05-14-2017, 09:44 PM
Gar? Pax?

Oh yeah, I knew that... RIGHT.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2017, 03:03 AM
Not a surprise. He's the best big in the draft.

Zags_Fanatic
05-15-2017, 09:26 AM
Impressive Workout/Interview video on Draft Express today. His range and consistency are incredible for any position, but as a true 7 footer it's easy to see why scouts are so high on him in the modern NBA.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/zach-collins-nba-pre-draft-workout-and-interview-5931/

jazzdelmar
05-15-2017, 12:05 PM
Impressive Workout/Interview video on Draft Express today. His range and consistency are incredible for any position, but as a true 7 footer it's easy to see why scouts are so high on him in the modern NBA.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/zach-collins-nba-pre-draft-workout-and-interview-5931/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/zach-collins-nba-pre-draft-workout-and-interview-

5931/)

His work ethic is unparalleled, thanks to his dad.

sittingon50
05-15-2017, 12:51 PM
Impressive Workout/Interview video on Draft Express today. His range and consistency are incredible for any position, but as a true 7 footer it's easy to see why scouts are so high on him in the modern NBA.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/zach-collins-nba-pre-draft-workout-and-interview-5931/


Thanks for the link, Fanatic. Very nice interview.

MDABE80
05-15-2017, 02:19 PM
I think he'll go higher than predicted. . TOP 10 easily.

Zagdawg
05-23-2017, 08:48 AM
Zach Collins‏Verified account
@zcollins_33

Wheels up to Orlando for my first team workout !! ��✈️��

Mr Vulture
05-23-2017, 09:13 AM
I think he'll go higher than predicted. . TOP 10 easily.

He's already projected Top 10 so not sure how he could go much higher. I've seen 9-10 range for him and I can't see him higher than 6, with that being a stretch. Regardless, he clearly made the right decision and I'm happy for him!

sittingon50
05-23-2017, 09:48 AM
Best of luck, Zach.

GoZags
05-23-2017, 09:56 AM
He's already projected Top 10 so not sure how he could go much higher. I've seen 9-10 range for him and I can't see him higher than 6, with that being a stretch. Regardless, he clearly made the right decision and I'm happy for him!

3-5* range is what some of the "smart money" is projecting. We'll know soon enough.

*Note .... this is not a guarantee that ZC will be drafted with a pick between number 3 and number 5.

mgadfly
05-23-2017, 11:04 AM
3-5* range is what some of the "smart money" is projecting. We'll know soon enough.

*Note .... this is not a guarantee that ZC will be drafted with a pick between number 3 and number 5.

Don't take this wrong, but what smart money?

There is virtually no way he gets drafted ahead of these 6:
1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Tatum
5. Monk
6. Fox

With a bunch of teams in the top 10 needing point guards, Smith is very likely to be drafted in the top 7 or 8. Then there is a group of 5 to 8 players that he may be drafted ahead of or behind. So #8 to #16 is his realistic range with a very small chance he drops further or rises up to as high as #7. I'll say he goes #11.

jazzdelmar
05-23-2017, 11:11 AM
Don't take this wrong, but what smart money?

There is virtually no way he gets drafted ahead of these 6:
1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Tatum
5. Monk
6. Fox

With a bunch of teams in the top 10 needing point guards, Smith is very likely to be drafted in the top 7 or 8. Then there is a group of 5 to 8 players that he may be drafted ahead of or behind. So #8 to #16 is his realistic range with a very small chance he drops further or rises up to as high as #7. I'll say he goes #11.


He's a better prospect than Tatum, yet another overrated Dukie. See Okafor, Ingram. Monk is a high volume shooter. Yes, he could sneak in at 5-6.

Zagricultural
05-23-2017, 11:33 AM
I think he'll go higher than predicted. . TOP 10 easily.

If he goes top ten then I will take back everything I said about thinking he was making a mistake going this year. Here's hoping he makes it top ten, and becomes an NBA Super-Star!

jazzdelmar
05-23-2017, 11:52 AM
If he goes top ten then I will take back everything I said about thinking he was making a mistake going this year. Here's hoping he makes it top ten, and becomes an NBA Super-Star!

You weren't the only one, but the only one who's ready to admit that. Good for you.

MDABE80
05-23-2017, 12:15 PM
I look at the list and notice there is not.not one.big man who's better than Collins. If you need a talented 7 footer with a high ceiling but is very good right now, he'll be top 5.

thespywhozaggedme
05-23-2017, 12:50 PM
Don't take this wrong, but what smart money?

There is virtually no way he gets drafted ahead of these 6:
1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Tatum
5. Monk
6. Fox

With a bunch of teams in the top 10 needing point guards, Smith is very likely to be drafted in the top 7 or 8. Then there is a group of 5 to 8 players that he may be drafted ahead of or behind. So #8 to #16 is his realistic range with a very small chance he drops further or rises up to as high as #7. I'll say he goes #11.

He may jump Tatum and Monk; wouldn't be shocked.

TexasZagFan
05-23-2017, 12:54 PM
I look at the list and notice there is not.not one.big man who's better than Collins. If you need a talented 7 footer with a high ceiling but is very good right now, he'll be top 5.

Now that Nerlens Noel may be seeking a 5-year, $148 million contract, Mavericks are suddenly showing interest in Zach. They should be, considering Noel's injury history.

Mavericks won't be competitive next year, either. It will be all about Dirk's Farewell Tour. Dirk deserves it, and it will be a few more years before the Mavericks will be competitive.